/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.975624]

Why does everyone make such a big deal about Kerouac? I read On The Road and The Dharma Bums a long while back. Didn't think they were anything exceptional. They weren't bad, but I don't understand the hype he gets.
Explain, /lit/.

[Anonymous No.975654]

[Anonymous No.975665]

His writing is very lively and exciting. It has that whole romantic thing going on.

[Anonymous No.975696]

not the OP, but I'm also curious about this "Kerouac phenomenon." I just finished my freshman year of college and all the pretentious hipsters and pseudo-intellectuals would probably lick this guys butthole. why

[Anonymous No.975732]

>>975696
Personally, I'm a little upset that hipsters are re-appropriating some of America's cultural heroes. They'll probably be hitting up James Dean and Woody Guthrie next.

[Anonymous No.975740]

Well, the issues of Catholic vs Protestant that were the basis of the Gunpowder Plot are also the basic issues that led to the English Cviil War, and the actual beheading of Charles I.

So if you do want to bring up the later successful regicide, you could profitably linki t to Macbeth's famous soliloquy in which he contemplates hte act of regicide and its consequences: "if the assassination could trammel up the consequences, and catch, with his surcease, success: that but this blow might be the be-all and the end-all here..."

Except the whole point ist hat he knows it's not.

Similarly, the back-and-forth of Catholic and Protestant in England---starting with Thomas More getting beheaded, and running up to Charles I getting beheaded---shows that Macbeth is right in terms of where he goes with this argument: "we but teach bloody instructions which return to plague thi'nventor."

In other words, the bloody instruction taught by Guy Fawkes (regicide of a Protestant king in the name of a Catholic mjaority) is directly responsible for the over-reaction in the opposite dierction (when Cromwell and the Puritans succeed in their regicide, for a king thought to be too Catholic in sympathies, on behalf of a Protestant middle-class which may be a minority but holds a majority of the mercantile power int he country)

[Anonymous No.975741]

SOUNDS LIKE A FAGIT

[Anonymous No.975747]

Sounds wasp'ish. Why?

[Anonymous No.975751]

I'm the same man, feels good.

[Anonymous No.975807]

Sounds hawt. UR giving me a bn0er

[Anonymous No.975814]

TV shows that should be made into books.


NOT BOOKSI NTO TV SHOWS (Gossip Girl, Pillasr of the Earth, etc)

[Anonymous No.975821]

Fuckin' pleb.

[Anonymous No.975873]

he's aite'!

[Anonymous No.975890]

Hey there /lit/, I rea Ddo Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? adn A Scanner Darkly, could somebody please recommend another Philip K Dick novel for me to read next?

[Anonymous No.975900]

I was more pissed off at Sansa than antyhing.

That bitch started the war ,just because she wanted a dicking from Joffrey.

[Anonymous No.975903]

I've never read any Sherlocke Holmes. Where's a good place to start getting into the series?

[Anonymous No.977630]

>>975696

Surely you jest, but I must respond....
I'll simplify it for you: Different strokes for different folks...

This "phenomenon" has been going on since Kerouac's works were first published and if you don't understand it, it is doubtful you ever will.

By itself, there is nothing wrong with this, but when you begin to label those whom you don't understand, you are falling into pit of ignorance.

[Anonymous No.977762]

Its all about freedom and living outside of the norms.

Open your mind and let his words take control

[Anonymous No.977902]

It's all about context and time-and-place. The literary scene at the time was pretty stilted and formulaic, at least in the US. Even the more experimental stuff wasn't exploring a lot of the world beyond the wealthy and powerful, the most basic tropes. And along comes this kid from industrial revolution Massachusetts with perfect recall, a fondness for flights of fantasy and drunken trouble, and what turn out to be some extremely influential and notorious friends -- who starts writing about another notorious buddy, but in doing so captures the whole emergent chaos vibe of jazz and drugs and the cracking of the tranquilized Eisenhower 50s USA lifemolds into what would become the psycho (delic and maniacal) 1960s.

It's not his prose, it's not his plots, it's not even (quite) his characters -- it's all the stuff in-between that really nails what the less-than-Main Street USA world looked/felt like back in the days.

[Anonymous No.978007]

>>977902

You make a few decent points, but I have to disagree for the most part.

JK did break the molds, but he describes a world which existed long before the '50s and still exists today. By merely altering small details, his novels could be set in 2010 or 1850.

Note that the reason Kerouac is found in the Literature Rack instead of Fiction is the timelessness of his writings, the depth of his plots and the artistry in his prose.

[Anonymous No.978034]

>>978007
>the artistry in his prose.
>Kerouac
No. Don't say that. I disagree with most of your post, but this was the most absurd claim and makes me think you're trolling.

No one thinks that Kerouac's prose was "artistic." He just spewed out whatever words first came to mind.

[Anonymous No.978095]

>>978034

We can disagree on whether his prose is artistic - such is the nature of art in any form....

This alone would negate your statement that ' >No one thinks that Kerouac's prose was "artistic." ' but if you'd be interested in broadening your horizons, try a simple google search for "Kerouac Prose"

[Anonymous No.978105]

Jack Kerouac is a writer who couldn't write who got famous because he looked like a rodeo rider.

[Anonymous No.978133]

>>978095
I fucking hate you.

I'm not the original arguer.

[Anonymous No.978138]

>>978105
Hard to argue with that logic.

Pic related - Found this a moment ago - I'll just quote the article:
"Fellow writers were always asking Kerouac how he did what he did. So Kerouac set down 30 essentials in something he called “Belief and Technique for Modern Prose.” These tips may or may not make sense to you, but that’s Kerouac, man:"

[Anonymous No.978177]

>>978105

That's what Bukowski said, yes, but I think he was simplifying unduly.

The American novel had gotten bogged down in reportage and suburban anecdote. Most American novels were about people and subjects no-one could get interested in - more importantly, it was trying to duck its duty to Modernism. Kerouac invented a Modernist prose form that presented itself as being 'of the people', the writing of an ordinary guy. It was an artist's prose, not artificial, which is the mistake people here seem to be making - the worth of a piece of work isn't determined by the man-hours spent on it.

[Anonymous No.978179]

The best way I can put it is that before Kerouac, people took John O'Hara seriously.

[Anonymous No.978184]

Art is in the eye of the beholder and who are you to say otherwise. Everybody here is just one more schmuck with an opinion that's worthless in the end.

[Anonymous No.978187]

>>978184

No, you see, this is a serious discussion thread. We WANT to know what each other thinks.

[Anonymous No.978188]

>>978034

This is a valid artistic strategy. Art is not just artifice.

[Anonymous No.978191]

>>978187

Nobody here is actually listening. They're just waiting for their turn to speak.

[Anonymous No.978192]

>>978191

I don't think that's true. Some responses which aren't attempts to invalidiate the thread would be nice, people?

[Anonymous No.978194]

--for as the Negro alto mused over everyone's head with dignity, the young, tall, slender, blond kid from Curtis Street, Denver, jeans and studded belt, sucked on his mouthpiece while waiting for the others to finish; and when they did he started, and you had to look around to see where the solo was coming from, for it came from angelical smiling lips upon the mouthpiece and it was a soft, sweet, fairy-tale solo on an alto. Lonely as America, a throatpierced sound in the night.

[Anonymous No.978199]

>>978194

Gorgeous.

[Anonymous No.978207]

She was about sixteen, and had Plains complexion like wild roses, and the bluest eyes, the most lovely hair, and the mod esty and quickness of a wild antelope. At every look from us she flinched. She stood there with the immense winds that blew clear down from Saskatchewan knocking her hair about her lovely head like shrouds, living curls of them. She blushed and blushed. ~~ Kerouac, On The Road (as was earlier post >>978194 )

[Anonymous No.978213]

>>978207

More!

[Anonymous No.978228]

>>978194
>Lonely as America
>my face

[Anonymous No.978230]

"Japhy was considered an eccentric around the campus, which is the usual thing for campuses and college people to think whenever a real man appears on the scene - colleges being nothing but grooming schools for the middle-class non-identity which usually finds its perfect expression on the outskirts of the campus in rows of well-to-do houses with lawns and television sets in each living room with everybody looking at the same thing and thinking the same thing at the same time while the Japhies of the world go prowling in the wilderness to hear the voice crying in the wilderness, to find the ecstasy of the stars, to find the dark mysterious secret of the origin of faceless wonderless crapulous civilization." ~~ Kerouac, The Dharma Bums

[Anonymous No.978241]

>>978230

This passage alone explains Kerouac's popularity among young people. We all want out of the routine at some point in our lives. While some of his "fans" are probably just hipsters, I'll always hold the spirit of his writing dear. Never give up on your truths.

[Anonymous No.978244]

>>978230

>crapulous

[Anonymous No.978257]

Kerouac is absolute garbage, hated by many, and loved by hipsters. which is more of a reason to denounce his mediocrity.

[Stagolee !0Pey/QLK3E No.978262]

>>978257
>HIPSTERS LIKE HIM SO I CAN'T LIKE HIM

[Anonymous No.978272]

>>978262

Exactly. People who bitch about hipsters are usually much worse than the hipsters themselves.

[Anonymous No.978276]

>>978272
>>978262


Hipsters detected.

[Anonymous No.978282]

>>978257

No one is forcing you to read Kerouac.

If we all agreed on every point, this would be a boring thread.

[Anonymous No.978291]

>>978276

Wrong. I just can't stand it when people refuse to try things that hipsters like just because hipsters like it. It makes them just as goddamn ignorant as the people they claim superiority over.

[Anonymous No.978297]

I was far away from home, haunted and tired with travel, in a cheap hotel room I'd never seen, hearing the hiss of steam outside, and the creak of the old wood of the hotel, and footsteps upstairs, and all the sad sounds, and I looked at the cracked high ceiling and really didn't know who I was for about fifteen strange seconds. I wasn't scared; I was just somebody else, some stranger, and my whole life was a haunted life, the life of a ghost. I was halfway across America, at the dividing line between the East of my youth and the West of my future.

[Anonymous No.978298]

>>978291

I have obviously read Kerouac if I am stating that he is mediocre. There is a reason why hipsters tend to gravitate to him, which is the reason I dislike him. His writing is empty minded and long winded with a distinct air of pretentiousness.

[Anonymous No.978314]

See the whole thing is a world full of rucksack wanderers, Dharma Bums refusing to subscribe to the general demand that they consume production and therefore have to work for the privilege of consuming, all that crap they didn't really want anyway such as refrigerators, TV sets, cars, and general junk you finally always see a week later in the garbage anyway, all of them imprisoned in a system of work, produce, consume, work, produce, consume, I see a vision of a great rucksack revolution thousands or even millions of young Americans wandering around with rucksacks, going up to mountains to pray, making children laugh and old men glad, making young girls happy and old girls happier, all of 'em Zen Lunatics who go about writing poems that happen to appear in their heads for no reason and also by being kind and also by strange unexpected acts keep giving visions of eternal freedom to everybody and to all living creatures.

[Anonymous No.978315]

>>978298
I resent this kind of thinking. In every comprehensible statement there is betrayed something, intentional or not, which presents the thoughts or values of its originator. Kerouac wrote of restlessness, of longing, and of hedonism, and while you may not yourself enjoy such sentiments, you must at least acknowledge that they were presented coherently and in the spirit which they represent.

[Anonymous No.978400]

So yes, Kerouac presides.

[Anonymous No.978404]

Kerouac contributed greatly to the state of modern poetry.

He's worth noting--and hating--for that alone.

[Anonymous No.978409]

>>978404

Oh look, the devil hates virtue, what a surprise.

[Anonymous No.978475]

ITT people take Kerouac's words on how he wrote at face value, and reject him on. Man revised like a motherfucker, like any good writer. He wrote multiple drafts of "On the Road" before the famous Scroll session, not including his initial notebook scrawlings made as it happened, and revised the Scroll before publication. If that wasn't the case, how could anyone publish an "original Scroll text eidition" like they did a couple years back? He wasn't "just typing," he was writing really, really fast, like an improvisational musician who recorded his improvising and then later copied it down to sheet music and made revisions. Versus one that started from scratch on the sheet.

It's an interesting thing to look at Kerouac's public pronouncements on, well, anything. He was a mess personally, politically, as a public figure, even as an alcoholic, but his work and his prose are uniquely luminous.

[Anonymous No.978622]

>>978475

Absolutely. This is so important. Kerouac's thirty tips make a great poem but have nothing to do with his real working process. Like how guitarists will talk about anything but the in-depth mechanics of their pedal rack, choice of amp, strings etc., writers will tell you anything apart from how they actually do it. Because if you knew, the magic would be gone.

[Anonymous No.978671]

>>975732
>>975696
Kerouac was a famous member of the Beat movement. He's the original hipster.

[Anonymous No.979759]

>>978671

Not the original hipster, but he helped define the word, attitude and mindset.
It should be noted that the term "Hipster" is fluid and can't be pinned down to any specific type of individual.
Wikipedia's 2 entries on "hipster" are an interesting read - here is an excerpt:
>>"Hipster" has been used in sometimes contradictory ways, making it difficult to precisely define "hipster culture" because it is a "mutating, trans-Atlantic melting pot of styles, tastes and behavior[s].

[Anonymous No.979822]

on the road wasnt terrible but it wasn't good either. it was mediocre imo. it had a few good lines that were memorable but that's it.

[Anonymous No.979965]

[Anonymous No.980081]

He saw that all the struggles of life were incessant, laborious, painful, that nothing was done quickly, without labor, that it had to undergo a thousand fondlings, revisings, moldings, addings, removings, graftings, tearings, correctings, smoothings, rebuildings, reconsiderings, nailings, tackings, chippings, hammerings, hoistings, connectings — all the poor fumbling uncertain incompletions of human endeavor. They went on forever and were forever incomplete, far from perfect, refined, or smooth, full of terrible memories of failure and fears of failure, yet, in the way of things, somehow noble, complete, and shining in the end. This he could sense even from the old house they lived in, with its solidly built walls and floors that held together like rock: some man, possibly an angry pessimistic man, had built the house long ago, but the house stood, and his anger and pessimism and irritable labourious sweats were forgotten; the house stood, and other men lived in it and were sheltered well in it. ~~ Kerouac, The Town and the City

[Anonymous No.980109]

>>980081
you've got to be trolling me.

[Anonymous No.981493]

I like too many things and get all confused and hung-up running from one falling star to another till I drop. This is the night, what it does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion. ~~ Kerouac, On The Road

[Anonymous No.981516]

I loved Kerouac when I was in high school and doing a lot of drugs.

I have read everything he's ever written.

However, now that I'm 24 I realize... he's not as great as I thought he was.

But if you like descriptive, poetic prose... there's no one better.

[Anonymous No.982469]

I'm a big fan of the Beat generation, but not a fan of Kerouac. Too much happens too fast with too little detail

[Anonymous No.983453]

>>982469

Opinions vary on any author,

Spontaneity is part of Kerouac's artistry; some love it, some hate it, he lived it....

[Anonymous No.985371]

bumping because Kerouac is greatest writer ever

[Anonymous No.987340]

>>975732

What is meant by "re-appropriating some of America's cultural heroes." ??????

[Anonymous No.987615]

>>975732
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OH WOW

probably?

[Anonymous No.989618]

>>987615


Probably re-appropriating cultural heroes?
Or probably Dean & Guthrie?????

[Anonymous No.989621]

I read On the Road when I was about 14 and it made me feel less trapped where I was living I think, like there was a whole world out there.