/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.9722976]

This is William Shakespeare, one of the greatest writers in the English language and the world's pre-eminent dramatist. Say something nice about him.

[Anonymous No.9723228]

No, he IS the greatest, not only in the english language, but of all time. Shakespeare is in a league of his own. He's on the very small group of genius above common genius. He just sits there above every writer that have ever existed, together with Gauss, Newton and Mozart.

[Anonymous No.9723240]

>>9722976
Theatre != literature.

[Anonymous No.9723246]

>>9723240
According to the Nobel, every thing that is written is considered literature.

[Anonymous No.9723252]

>>9723228
Beethoven>Mozart
Euler>Gauss
Dante>Shakespeare

[Anonymous No.9723254]

>>9723246
Yes but Borges never got one, so fuck nobels

[Anonymous No.9723284]

>>9723252
>Dante>Shakespeare
In no way is this true. I'm reading the divine comedy now and it's full of bathos and obtuse moralizing. Shakespeare created living beings, and made them immortal. Dante's world, while it possesses some nice imagery, is populated by cardboard stand-ins. The inferno has no real suffering because you don't care what happens to these people. You should be ashamed of your opinion anon.

Also comparing Mozart to Beethoven is pretty lame.

[Anonymous No.9723300]

>>9723284
Mozart approached God's voice with his music, Beethoven just created some nice melodies.

[Anonymous No.9723304]

>>9723300
In a way I agree with you but i think they are too different to compare.

[Anonymous No.9723310]

>>9723284
>Dante's world, while it possesses some nice imagery, is populated by cardboard stand-ins.
So, religion in a nutshell?

[Anonymous No.9723318]

This is Frederick Wilhelm Nietzsche, one of the greatest philosophers in the German language and the world's pre-eminent edgelord. Say something nice about him.

[Anonymous No.9723320]

>>9723310
No, I wouldn't say all religious writers are like this. Dante's writing reminds me of medieval paintings where the perspective is hilariously wrong. Also it was pretty much plagiarized from a story from the Hadiths

[Anonymous No.9723339]

>>9723320
Well, you do have a point. I think it has more to do with the idea of being "awe inspiring." Of course, during his time of writing, people had very active imaginations since that's what they had to work with to entertain themselves... or explain things.

Shakespeare wins because his writing is, honestly, still be related to. No mean feat by any stretch.

[Anonymous No.9723340]

>>9723304
You don't like comparing a classicist composer to a classicist/early romantic composer but you're fine with comparing a dramatist and occasional lyrical poet to every other novelist, dramatist and poet from every other period and style?

[Anonymous No.9723345]

>>9723340
Well said, mercilessly destroyed his arguments in cold blood.

[Anonymous No.9723357]

>>9723320
Read it in Italian before you criticize it kid

[Anonymous No.9723381]

>>9723357
This is just shallow elitism. Translated works can be criticized cleanly despite any loss meaning in their words. Because there's more to writing than just low-level literary technique.

[Anonymous No.9723383]

>>9723340
I didn't bring up the Dante v. Shakespeare question, and I wouldn't compare the two either, but discussing the merits of each i would say that Shakespeare has many while Dante few. I think Beethoven and Mozart were equally talented but I can't see any basis for comparing their music.
>>9723357
i guess ? I'm learning Farsi which I believe has a greater literature than Italian.

[Anonymous No.9723402]

>>9723339
I suppose it must have inspired awe, but I haven't finished it I'm still in purgatory. I don't think I'm really getting it, meaning I don't know how to enjoy.

[Anonymous No.9723403]

>>9723381
Do you know a foreign language? Try reading Shakespeare in translation, it will open your eyes.

[Anonymous No.9723416]

>>9723403
Did you even read my whole post or did you immediately jump to a preconceived post and posted out of snobbery?

[Anonymous No.9723433]

>>9723403
What's the matter in reading Shakespeare with a translation? Just bought the portuguese translation of Romeo and Juliet and I'm finding it very pleasent to read. The english version is written in old english and in a way that is impossible for a foreigner to understand completely (at least without some extensive knowledge of english acquired with years of study).

[Anonymous No.9723445]

>>9723416
>>9723433
Irredeemable plebeianism. Ugh.

[Anonymous No.9723457]

>>9723433
>>9723445
>people pretend to be polyglots on /int/

[Anonymous No.9723462]

>>9723252
>Beethoven>Mozart

[Anonymous No.9723597]

How come I dislike reading Shakespeare but enjoy reading Greek playwrights? Is it because of the archaic language used by Shakespeare or how come his stories don't feel as transcend as the Greek ones do?

[Anonymous No.9723626]

>>9723300
got that backwards m8.

[Anonymous No.9723740]

Give me Shakespeare's best lines. Now.

[Anonymous No.9724037]

>>9722976
Swaggy earring, Bill

[Anonymous No.9724039]

>>9722976
He didn't actually exist.

[Anonymous No.9724121]

>>9722976
Top 10 Greatest Geniuses of all time (objectively correct list)

10. Goethe
9. Plato/Aristotle
8. Shakespeare
7. Newton
6. Beethoven
5. Handel
4. Da Vinci/Michelangelo
3. Mozart
2. Bach
1. me

[Anonymous No.9724143]

>>9723252
kys, my man.

[Anonymous No.9724146]

>>9724121
>Goethe
>10

[Anonymous No.9724161]

>>9724121
I'm sorry, but # 1 genius is actually me.

[Anonymous No.9724162]

>>9724121
Plato really needs to be #1, in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.9724203]

>>9724121
post diary desu

[Anonymous No.9724212]

>>9724121
nice list

[Anonymous No.9724219]

>>9724121
where's goonan

[Anonymous No.9724270]

>>9724121
>Plato/Aristotle
>Da Vinci/Michelangelo
you know you can't just lump people together because they lived in similar spaces and times, right.
Anyway, Plato and Aristotle were of comparable intellect, but Da Vinci is leaps and bounds above Michelangelo.

[Anonymous No.9724281]

>>9724270
Da Vinci was an autist who was incapable of finishing shit.

[Anonymous No.9724287]

>>9724281
Aren't we all?

[Anonymous No.9724346]

>>9724270
>but Da Vinci is leaps and bounds above Michelangelo
you can't even tell me what the sistine chapel smells like, chief

[Anonymous No.9724357]

>>9723740
"O god, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I had bad dreams."

"O, wonder!
How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
That has such people in't!"

[Sage No.9724388]

>>9724357

They said, sardonically.

[Anonymous No.9724410]

Shit poet, couldn't rise above blank verse.

[Anonymous No.9724449]

>>9723381
Amerifags that don't understand metric. A translation, especially of poetry, is nothing compared to the original. You'd know this if you weren't a pleb.

>>9723383
So you haven't read it in Italian? Why learn farsi then? Just read a translation. What could possibly go wrong,

[Anonymous No.9724452]

>>9723445
A world of free verse, and blank verse.

>they don't even know what that is

[Anonymous No.9724481]

>>9723310
Western World, based on Christianity, based on Roman mythology and the Greeks, is just based on cardboard cutouts.

[Anonymous No.9724590]

People saying Mozart > Beethoven just proves how musically plebs they are.
Just shut the fuck up whenever takling about music, retards.

>>9724481
What?

[Anonymous No.9724926]

>>9724121
1. Plato
2. Mozart
3. Shakespeare
4. Euclid
5. Aquinas
6. Michelangelo
7. Leibniz
8. Darwin
9. Einstein
10. Gödel

[Anonymous No.9724938]

>>9722976
I'm really looking forward to the new anime in which he is one of the major characters alongside Jack the Ripper and Jeanne d'Arc.

[Anonymous No.9725211]

>>9723284
Maybe you should stick to reading Dumas.

[Anonymous No.9725844]

>>9722976
Good place as any to ask. Do you know if anyone ever tried translating Shakespeare into modern english?
Before you'll rage let me explain. I got this idea while watching the latest Macbeth movie and struggling to make any sense of what I was hearing. Obviously I know the story, but my language skills just gave up confronted with old english. Then It occured to me how good it is to be non native english speaker, because I could choose from at least 10 very different translations instead of being stuck with vintage play.
So question: did anyone tried to remake, remaster or make the works of Shakespearemore appealing to current public?

[Anonymous No.9725857]

>>9723300
jesus christ, what?

[Anonymous No.9725862]

>>9725857
Are you stupid? Mozart is obviously more souly.

[Anonymous No.9725874]

Richard Wagner surpasses everyone else mentioned in this thread.

[Anonymous No.9725889]

>>9725844
>Shakespeare
>Old English

please be baiting

[Anonymous No.9725893]

>>9724346

[Anonymous No.9725900]

>>9725893
Needs a 9gag watermark

[Anonymous No.9725906]

>>9725889
My bad, no bait here, just pure, undiluted ignorance. Still, Shakespeare's english is pretty dated and hard to understand to a casual like me, thus my question.

[Anonymous No.9725931]

He might have been a nigger so :/

[Anonymous No.9725934]

>>9725862
sappy more like

[Anonymous No.9725939]

>>9725906

[Anonymous No.9725956]

>>9725844
Maybe this is more your speed pal.
In all seriousness though, there are plenty of student versions (high school student) that have modernised english and the original version printed side by side to make it easier to follow, but realistically you probably shouldn't bother. Enjoying Shakespeare's poeticism and unravelling the (anachronistic by our standards but contemporary at the time) jokes and double meanings is half the fun, If you take out the wordplay and flow you lose much of Shakespeare. Yeah, there are some decent narratives in there, but he was a great deal more than that. You are a native speaker? It just takes a little familiarity.

Also Shakespeare definitely didn't write in Old English, he didn't even write in Middle English.

[Anonymous No.9725962]

>>9725939
i was thinking about something like modern versions of the Bible compared to the King James one but still, that's something.

[Anonymous No.9725989]

>>9725956
>If you take out the wordplay and flow you lose much of Shakespeare
That's why I was talking about translations not the simplified versions for students. I am from Poland and like I said we have a dozen or so of different translations available, half of them widely considered to be really good ones and used as a basis for theatre plays, so I believe that, even though they are approximations as any translations are, they still manage to grasp some of the original spirit of Shakespeare's works despite being written in modern polish instead of vintage english. And just thought that being able to appreciate such reworked, remade works gives them sort of second life.
Also thx for serious answer.

[Anonymous No.9725997]

He was a cuck.

[Anonymous No.9726008]

>>9725844
It's not hard to learn Shakespeare's English. You're just a dumbass. A "translation" would destroy all the jokes and fuck up the meter.

[Anonymous No.9726043]

>>9725989
The thing about Shakespeare is that a lot of his plays have things that were supposed to be funny or lewd, but these things are communicated largely through wordplay that probably doesn't translate well not just in to other languages but in to modern english either. Take the opening scene of Romeo+Juliet (not the chorus intro, the street scene); forgive my poor memory of the scene, but i think it starts with two men from one of the houses in question joking and bragging about killing. While jokes about swords-as-penises and the like might translate just fine, things like the leap from decapitations to raping a virgin don't flow the same without the "maiden's heads/maidenheads" wordplay. In modern english it would probably come off as a weird non-sequitur (I don't know if a similar linguistic connection exists in Polish, but I assume not). The point is that often Shakespearean dialogue flows the way it does because of the specific sound or contextual meanings of the words used, and while this is true of a lot of great writing, Shakespeare really loses something when you take out the dick and vagina jokes. Even the names of characters and plays themselves rely on wordlplay. I guess its true that it is always hard to translate poetry well, but I imagine Shakespeare would be especially difficult.

[Anonymous No.9726057]

>>9725931
ok write something better then

[Anonymous No.9726059]

>>9726008
I was just fucking around with idea whether it is possible to do or not. And I'd rather work on my german than learning old Will's lingo.

[Anonymous No.9726098]

>>9724926
plato wasn't even a poet
michelangelo was a faggot
einstein was a cuck

[Anonymous No.9726102]

>>9726059
you're seriously missing out

[Anonymous No.9726151]

>>9724121
What do you mean by greatest? Most creative? Most brain power?
In terms of brainpower it goes like this
1 Von Neumann
2 Ramanujan
3 Newton
4 Gauss
5 Euler
6 Archimedes
7 Maxwell
8 Leibniz
9 Faraday
10 Tesla

[Anonymous No.9726199]

>>9726151
Planck?

[Anonymous No.9726249]

>>9726151
Before Einstein, Bach and Shakespeare and after Grothendieck who's after Riemann who's after Da Vinci who's after Galilei after Aristotle and Plato after Euclid

[Anonymous No.9726253]

>>9726199
>>9726249
I meant to reply to you

[Anonymous No.9726368]

>>9722976
This guy fucked

[Anonymous No.9726377]

>>9726151
If Einstein could take Maxwell's place that list is pretty accurate

[Anonymous No.9726387]

>>9726151
who tf cares about brainpower

[Anonymous No.9726407]

>>9726151
where do you put wittgenstein

[Anonymous No.9726410]

>>9726407
25-30

[Anonymous No.9726416]

>>9726410
i feel like that's too low for sure

[Anonymous No.9726428]

Well I would put all of those
>>9726151
>>9726249
As well as Beethoven, Goethe, Godel, Descartes Erdos before him

[Anonymous No.9726463]

I'm about to read Twelfth Night. First Shakespeare I've read since high school, isn't that wild?

[Anonymous No.9726487]

>>9723284
You are wrong about Dante but these two stand above everyone else. You ought to read Auerbach's chapter on Dante in Mimesis or think more about how Virgil and Dante interact at specific times such as Virgil's wish to remain unrecognised on Mt Purgatory.

[Anonymous No.9726499]

>>9723284
>The inferno has no real suffering because you don't care what happens to these people.


You know, this is one of the best things I have ever read about why Dante is not that fulfilling and interesting.

I made me remember Elizabeth Alexander’s phrase:

>“Perhaps tragedies are only tragedies in the presence of love, which confers meaning to loss.”

[Anonymous No.9726514]

>>9723433
friendly reminder that it is not old english, but indeed early modern english. It is hard to read, I'm sure, but nowhere as hard (read: impossible in your present case) as it would be in old english.

[Anonymous No.9726550]

>>9726499
This is such an embarrassingly shallow interpretation of the magnificent complexity of tragedy. I don't know how anyone could possibly find this compelling.

[Anonymous No.9726733]

>>9726499
you are fucking retarded. are you seriously using high school level creative writing class drivel to compensate for your terrible taste? YOU are not good enough for Dante, you arrogant little bitch, it's NOT the other way around. jesus christ I hate summer

[Anonymous No.9726736]

>>9726151
>no /phil/
Come on, dude. Aristotle's at least a top 10.