/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.9715946]

>Heidegger believed the Western world to be on a trajectory headed for total war, and on the brink of profound nihilism (the rejection of all religious and moral principles), which would be the purest and highest revelation of Being itself, offering a horrifying crossroads of either salvation or the end of metaphysics and modernity; rendering the West a wasteland populated by tool-using brutes, characterized by an unprecedented ignorance and barbarism in which everything is permitted.

What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9715960]

He thought the latter possibility would degenerate mankind generally into scientists, workers and brutes; living under the last mantle of one of three ideologies, Americanism, Marxism or Nazism (which he deemed metaphysically identical, as avatars of subjectivity and institutionalized nihilism), and an unfettered totalitarian world technology.[69] Supposedly, this epoch would be ironically celebrated, as the most enlightened and glorious in human history.

He envisaged this abyss to be the greatest event in the West's history because it would enable Humanity to comprehend Being more profoundly and primordially than the Pre-Socratics.

[Anonymous No.9716306]

He didn't understand that egotism and an-cap was the best type of philosophy

[Anonymous No.9716308]

he was right. that's what happened that's what the West is like now

[Anonymous No.9716312]

nihilism has never existed

[Anonymous No.9716333]

>>9715946
it's actually worse than what he envisaged because religious and moral principles themselves have been coopted as mere tools rendering an unconcealing of them more difficult. ignorance and barbarism is a mercy compared to having to dance to their tune.

[Anonymous No.9716338]

>>9716306
>an-cap
>posts stirner

[Anonymous No.9716345]

>>9716338
stirner + hobbes is ancap
stirner + stirner is a psychiatric hospital with no warden

[Anonymous No.9716366]

>>9716345
you + you is a fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.9716376]

>>9716366

[Anonymous No.9716385]

>>9716366
me + ur mum = you

[Anonymous No.9716398]

>>9716345
not all retards are ancap but all ancaps are retarded

[Anonymous No.9716414]

WHat the fuck? Why people have somekind of fetishim about "muh deep profund society, the past is better cuz tradition!" FUcking traditionalfags, grow up and deal with the modern world and the eventual ending with a machine rule over us.

[Anonymous No.9716421]

>>9716414

[Anonymous No.9716427]

>>9715946
>Americanism, Marxism or Nazism (which he deemed metaphysically identical, as avatars of subjectivity and institutionalized nihilism)

What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9716429]

>>9716414
people who are already dead

[Anonymous No.9717532]

bump

[Anonymous No.9717552]

>>9715946
Source? Looks like he was right.

[Anonymous No.9717555]

>>9716427
Just taking a stab in the dark here: they're all fueled by ressentiment, but all in turn lack the potential of a transcendent escape from that ressentiment because all are fundamentally materialistic. They make you a bitter spiteful cunt without the ability to stop being one.

[Anonymous No.9717556]

>>9717555
how is americanism fueled by ressentiment?

[Anonymous No.9717564]

>>9717555
Communism solves ressentiment though.

[Anonymous No.9717573]

>>9717564
It's fundamentally materialistic, so it is incapable of solving ressentiment. This is the mistake Marx makes in reworking Hegel.

[Anonymous No.9717680]

>>9716414
Land stop posting.

[Anonymous No.9717684]

>>9717564
It literally wants the plebs to have their material needs quenched, nothing else. Sounds soul-less and materialistic to me.

[Anonymous No.9717953]

>>9715946
He may have been on to something, but arguably contributed to the nihilism he was trying to fight off. Niether Nietzsche nor Heidegger provided adequate antidotes the nihilism they saw coming.

Heidegger literally invented deconstruction.

[Anonymous No.9717995]

>>9715946
Heidegger was a kitschy brain..... a feeble thinker from the Alpine foothills, as I believe, and just about right for the German philosophical hot-pot. For decades they ravenously spooned up that man Heidegger, more than anybody else, and overloaded their stomachs with his stuff. Heidegger had a common face, not a spiritual one, he was through and through an unspiritual person, devoid of all fantasy, devoid of all sensibility, a genuine German philosophical ruminant, a ceaselessly gravid German philosophical cow, which grazed upon German philosophy and thereupon for decades let its smart little cow pats drop on it.....

[Anonymous No.9718002]

>>9717680
>>9716429
>>9716421
>>9716414
fuck you. Get a life dumb white males

[Anonymous No.9718018]

>>9717995
elaborate

[Anonymous No.9718023]

>>9717555
That's not Heidegger's criticism. They are all bound by "technicity". That's why they are dangerous.

They all see technology as a way to solve the existential problems of life, and want to use technology to change human beings.

This is why there's talk about post-human modes of being now; Zizek talks about this, as do alot of more right-wing leading people like Alexander Dugin.

It's not necessarily about ressentiment but ressentiment usually is a marker that people aren't living authentically.

[Anonymous No.9718030]

>>9718023
What od u mean by living authentically

[Anonymous No.9718035]

>>9718030
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_(philosophy)

[Anonymous No.9718089]

>>9716414
Your countries iq is declining at a rate of 15 points per 2 decades.

Victorian's had a 115 I.

American whites have a 101

Niggers have 80 or less.

Yeah things are declining. Technology is masking it.

[Anonymous No.9718101]

so was his name egger because he ate too much eggs or because he looks like one?

[Anonymous No.9718115]

>>9718101
His name is means "the edge of the meadow".

Just like Schwarzenegger means "the black edge".

[Anonymous No.9718516]

>>9718023

This.

Additionally, they are all forms of humanism, which should be stressed here; liberal humanism, collectivist humanism and evolutionary humanism, to be specific.

The undermining of our traditional religious and moral principles, which are really just metaphorical and allegorical abstracted truths, that apply universally and across time, leads to a philosophical vacuum of sorts, in which shallow ideologies violently clash and compete; this was also predicted by Nietzsche.

Living un-authentically, in this case, may indeed lead to the collapse of civilisation and to the chaotic barbarism Heidegger speaks of.

[Anonymous No.9718518]

>>9715946
Sounds like neoliberalism alright.

[Anonymous No.9718525]

>>9718035
>>9718516
Will this board ever grow out of existentialism?

[Anonymous No.9718543]

>These are facts of experience. Countless people alive today have passed the midpoint of the nihilistic process, the rock-bottom of the maelstrom. They have learned that the mechanism reveals its menacing nature all the more clearly there; man finds himself in the bowels of a great machine devised for his destruction. They have also learned firsthand that all rationalism leads to mechanism, and every mechanism to torture its logical consequence. In the nineteenth century this had not yet been realized.

>The panic so widely observable today is the expression of an emaciated spirit, of a passive nihilism that provokes its active counterpart. Of course, no one is easier to terrorize than the person who believes that everything is over when his fleeting phenomenon is extinguished. The new slaveholders have realized this, and this explains the importance to them of materialistic theories, which serve to shatter the old order during the insurrection and to perpetuate the reign of terror afterward. No basin is to be left standing where a man may feel unassailable and therefore unafraid.

>As we see, predicaments arise that demand an immediate moral decision, and this is most true where the vortex is deepest and most turbulent. This has not been, and will not always be the case. Generally speaking, the institutions and the rules associated with them provide navigable terrain; what is legal and moral lies in the wind. Naturally, abuses occur, but there are also courts and police. This changes when morality is substituted by a subspecies of technology, that is, by propaganda, and the institutions are transformed into weapons of civil war. The decision then falls to the individual, as an either-or, since a third position, neutrality, is excluded. From this point forward, a particular form of infamy lies in non-participation, but also in making judgments from a non-participating position.

>The panic so widely observable today is the expression of an emaciated spirit, of a passive nihilism that provokes its active counterpart. Of course, no one is easier to terrorize than the person who believes that everything is over when his fleeting phenomenon is extinguished. The new slaveholders have realized this, and this explains the importance to them of materialistic theories, which serve to shatter the old order during the insurrection and to perpetuate the reign of terror afterward. No basin is to be left standing where a man may feel unassailable and therefore unafraid.

>It is critical for the dispossessed individual to get beyond the idea of a personal theft perpetrated on him. Otherwise he remains with a trauma, a persisting inner sense of loss, which will later manifest in civil war.

>A very significant event here is philosophy’s turn from knowledge to language; it brings the spirit back into close contact with a primal phenomenon. This is more important than any physical discovery.

[Anonymous No.9718544]

>>9715960
Wait, why did he join The Nazi party if he deemed Nazism institutionalised nihilism?

[Anonymous No.9718549]

>>9718525

I (>>9718516) was just explaining the idea, as requested by OP.

I'm more of a pragmatist, personally; however, I do share some sympathy for the views expressed above, in as much as they are likely to contain partial truths.

[Anonymous No.9718556]

>>9717995
I quite like this even if its completely unfair towards Heidegger.

[Anonymous No.9718566]

>>9717995

What a wonderfully creative diatribe.

>I chuckled.

[Anonymous No.9718589]

>>9718543
Strauss? Reads like him.

[Anonymous No.9718590]

>>9717995
nigga please

[Anonymous No.9718594]

>>9718589
Nope. This glorious motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.9718642]

>>9715946
Only if there's a God is everything permitted. There's no Holocaust or Gulag without poetry.

[Anonymous No.9718662]

>>9718642
>be plato
>ban poetry from the republic
>foster godlike caste of guardian god-kings

surely this will not produce fascism

[Anonymous No.9718667]

>>9715946

[Anonymous No.9718674]

>>9718662
>ban poetry
Plato never stated this. He only wanted to get rid of non-beneficial art.

[Anonymous No.9718693]

>>9718662
fascism is a purely aesthetic phenomenon

[Anonymous No.9718697]

>>9718693
thats why benjamin concluded that we need to politicize the aesthetics

[Anonymous No.9718703]

>>9718693
Fascism is the equivalent of the jealous man whose wife cheats on him. The question is not whether the jealousy is justified (or the hatred of the Juden) but why the jealousy is necessary. It is absolutely pathological.

[Anonymous No.9718706]

>>9718697
that's marxism

the republic is pure politics without the aesthetics

[Anonymous No.9718713]

>>9718706
>pure politics
in your dreams

also marxism implies a critque of the state and the politics, remember marx called "The Capital": Critique of the POLITICAL Economy

[Anonymous No.9718714]

>>9718674
>ban that which does not Make the Good Great Again
>as if it could Be any Better
>somehow not produce propaganda
>also no sophists or jesters or court fools to vent tension
>coal_crushing_sphincter.jpeg

Full disclosure: I'm being a dick here. Zizek is right of course. Poetry is a problem for the state (or Not a Problem if the state loves to quote the Bhagavad Gita, crushing its enemies, hearing lamentations of the women &c). Which is to say it is a problem.

That non-beneficial art is going to be a problem for Republican meme curation. Not insoluble. Get your hoplites hopliting and also tending gardens too. Curbing Last Man tendencies and curbing I Drink Your Milkshake tendencies. All possible. But tricky. The real puzzle is terrorism moreso than fascism, imho.

>>9718693
yep

>>9718697
yep

>>9718703
yep

>>9718706
>pure politics
good googly moogly

[Anonymous No.9718732]

>>9718713
pure politics does not require dreams for it is already the dream made real

marxism denies dreams and makes the "real" world the dream

fascism is one crazy af lucid dream by ptsd riddled wwi veterans

[Anonymous No.9718738]

>>9718732
t. Beaudrillard

[Anonymous No.9718745]

>>9718674
also it's not quite "non-beneficial" art but art that does not speak the truth. pure truth does not need art because it is fully disclosed. it can take the "form" of art sure but it won't be called art nor would most realize it as such. the most truthful art possible would be the world itself of which the state is a microcosm of.

p u r e p o l i t i c s

[Anonymous No.9718751]

>>9717684
>marxism denies dreams and makes the "real" world the dream

read this, specially the sections on Marx and Fourier

https://monoskop.org/images/e/e4/Benjamin_Walter_The_Arcades_Project.pdf

[Anonymous No.9718759]

>>9718732

[Anonymous No.9718765]

>>9718745
>art that does not speak the truth
No, he's more concerned with art that doesn't steer children towards their respective roles in the republic. He doesn't care about the truth.

[Anonymous No.9718776]

>>9718745
>>9718765
Furthermore, my god, one of the biggest concepts from The Republic is the Noble Lie. He absolutely is not concerned with truth.

[Anonymous No.9718778]

>>9718759

'Causality is a superstition.'

t. Wittgenstein

[Anonymous No.9718784]

>>9718778
>and we ain't seen nothing yet

[Anonymous No.9718785]

>>9718751
>1k pages
nigga i could've read 3 books

>>9718776
>talking about the noble lie openly in the republic
>telling everyone you're gonna lie
what did he mean by this

>>9718765
children aren't ready for the truth

[Anonymous No.9718792]

>>9718778
>...

t. witty

[Anonymous No.9718797]

>>9718785
>>talking about the noble lie openly in the republic
>>telling everyone you're gonna lie
>what did he mean by this
What did you mean by this?

>children aren't ready for the truth
The discussion in the Republic about the kind of art that should be allowed in the Republic is specifically concerned with children.

[Anonymous No.9718811]

>>9718797
i don't know what he meant by that is what i mean. but pure politics tho. children can't into politics. and he talks about art in relation to forms later on that is not about children, but art being "lesser" than the forms.

[Anonymous No.9718819]

>>9718811
The discussion is about Plato. If you haven't read his work, I'm going to refrain from responding.

[Anonymous No.9718821]

>>9718776
>furthermore, my god

i'm not convinced this poster is not in fact slavoj zizek himself

[Anonymous No.9718830]

>>9718778
"Of what cannot speak, one must remain silent."

Take his advice anon.

[Anonymous No.9718836]

>>9718819
I have read The Republic. When you were talking about the noble lie, did you interpret it to mean that Plato was saying the means justified the ends?

And I am referring to the part where artists were to be forbidden from the city. It's separate from the part where children ought not to be told tales of the gods "misbehaving".

[Anonymous No.9718843]

>>9718836
*ends justified the means

[Anonymous No.9718868]

>>9717995
>Heidegger was a kitschy brain.....

What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9718879]

>>9718590
>>9718566
>>9718556
>>9718018
It's a slightly edited passage from Old Masters by Bernhard. A decent chunk of that book is one of his characters shitting on certain artists writers and composers.

[Anonymous No.9718891]

>>9718830

[Anonymous No.9718896]

>>9718843

Ends justified the memes.

[Anonymous No.9718923]

>>9715946
That swearing on TV is the reverse monolith.

[Anonymous No.9718935]

Apologies for the shitposting earlier but I should clarify what I mean. And it has been years since I read Plato so I may get some things wrong.

So the theory of forms is crucial to Plato. Something is just because it takes the form of justice, something is good because it takes the form of the good etc. Now Plato in The Republic is describing a hypothetical immanent city, not a transcendent form of the city. So he's working out the relation between the immanent and the transcendent. Something is true here because it corresponds to a form.

Practically, in our world, we might need to justify the ends by the means (the noble lie). But ideally (in the hypothetical Form of the city) one ought not to justify the ends by the means. So Plato differs from Machiavelli in this regard. The transcendent is not a political issue for Machiavelli.

When I am talking about "pure politics" I am not referring to the city Plato is talking about in the Republic. I am referring to the Form of the City. And in that City the noble lie is not necessary. Under this interpretation, we are "politicizing" the realm of the forms (whatever that means, i'm not sure if that even means something). Is this a constructive way of looking at it?

Doesn't this make sense of why Plato would want to kick out the artists? "Because they might corrupt the children" is a practical reason. The same way telling a noble lie has practical reasons. But he doesn't want the children lied to, and yet wants to make a noble lie. If a practical reason can be made a "principle", then such a principle would be contradictory. So this can't be it. Rather it's because the artists will be nonexistent in the form of the city. And that is a matter of truth, because there can be no contradictions in the forms.

[Anonymous No.9718952]

>>9716333
This, more or less. Not only has religion lost its hold and value, but the remaining husk is being used as a puppet to spread disgusting indoctrination, like schools

[Anonymous No.9718970]

>>9718935
>Now Plato in The Republic is describing a hypothetical immanent city, not a transcendent form of the city.

Now that's more interesting by far.

>Practically, in our world, we might need to justify the ends by the means (the noble lie). But ideally (in the hypothetical Form of the city) one ought not to justify the ends by the means. So Plato differs from Machiavelli in this regard. The transcendent is not a political issue for Machiavelli.

Not so long as in the end Machiavelli is prepared to receive his just and proper reward for service.

[Anonymous No.9718972]

>>9718935
anyone else noticed the parallels between the Lego Movie and plato's republic?

Same nestled fractal like structure. parallels between the city (lego world) and the soul. Lego World is a commodity shrine situated in a suburban basement, much like the famous parable of the cave. Instead of presenting an ideal immanent polis, the Lego Movie seeks to implant the subject with a model of late capitalism. You have the illusory commodity-world of play represented by lego world, and the actual world of economic rationality and state power represented by President Business/Father/Will Ferrell.

[Anonymous No.9718992]

>>9718952
How is it used as a tool or a puppet? I think a lot of people see religion as something practical or useful nowadays, but I don't know if this materialization is what he meant.

[Anonymous No.9718999]

> that feel when you get official invitation from the niggership of Compton

[Anonymous No.9719011]

Liberalism is evil!

[Anonymous No.9719016]

>>9718935
And this should put into perspective the cases of *practical reason* where we are told that the hoi polloi should be told myths of their origins (from bronze, silver, gold) or be lied to that their pairing up is predetermined. Since it's a case of practical reason, if we were to immanetize the transcendent today (Buckley rolling in his grave I know) the city need not resort to these measures.

We already have a coherent view of genetics and heredity better than bronze/silver/gold. And i'm sure some (or most?) people would be willing to sign up for a technology assisted "dating service". I mean what is Tinder other than being lied to that your pairing up, albeit with leaving the final decision up to you, is actually the result of algorithmic decision making?

So pure politics. Authoritarian, yes. Trying to conflate this with "fascism" does not work because fascism's end is to perpetuate itself in its current form.

Plato's metaphysics remains a challenge because the city's end is to transcend itself, not merely for the "greater good", but for the Form of the Good. The former will be a tyranny because the tyrant can never be secure for he remains mired in the injustices he commits, but the latter is a case of practical reasoning leading to the establishment of the form of Justice itself.

Or maybe The Republic is one huge metaphor for the process of reason. Got to test out an imperfect hypothesis. Make inferences and inductions that problematically can't quite be justified on their own. But it'll all work out ok in the end.

>>9718970
Machiavelli is the hero we need but don't deserve. Or is it the hero we don't need but deserve? He def the Batman tho.

>>9718972
>tfw your mum throws out your legos freeing you from the shackles of commodity fetishism leading you down the path to enlightenment

[Anonymous No.9719027]

>>9715946
>believed the Western world to be on a trajectory headed for total war, and on the brink of profound nihilism (the rejection of all religious and moral principles), which would be the purest and highest revelation of Being itself, offering a horrifying crossroads of either salvation or the end of metaphysics and modernity; rendering the West a wasteland populated by tool-using brutes, characterized by an unprecedented ignorance and barbarism in which everything is permitted

>>9719011
james bond is going to shoot Movie Dugin sometime in the next ten years
>true, it may be a transgendered james bond
>ends/means?
>you know what fuck it just kill me now

[Anonymous No.9719048]

>>9719027
No movie can ever compare to what we're getting next. Movies are going to be worse than real life. Pure politics. Obsolescence of aesthetics. It's going to be beautiful tho.

[Anonymous No.9719120]

>>9719016
>Machiavelli is the hero we need but don't deserve. Or is it the hero we don't need but deserve? He def the Batman tho.

Yeah. He's arguably a kind of Batman turned inside out. Maybe some good-old fashioned Renaissance meme statecraft. As always satire/reality is hard to gauge.
>remember the good old days? when memes were memes? at machiavelli state farms, we do

You'll enjoy these, if you haven't read them yet.

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2012/08/slavoj-žižek-politics-batman

https://bigtallwords.com/2015/04/27/the-fascist-we-deserve-the-authoritarian-ideology-of-christopher-nolans-dark-knight-trilogy/

Batman v Superman was Spectacle but interesting to think about. What happens when your scapegoat is also the ubermensch?
>cinema, numbnuts. obv
>also nolan > snyder

Nolan Batman is a different thing from Snyder Batman, who in his sweaty paranoia is perhaps *more* fascoid than Nolan's version - as it would be, perhaps, being made by (I suspect) more liberal-minded individuals (Affleck). I find that stuff fascinating. But it makes for a worse film...

Bonds are different also. Personally Bond/anarch > superhero/sovereign for me. But.

>>9719048
>No movie can ever compare to what we're getting next.

True. I just sperg out over cinema. Movies tell us not only what we want, but how we want it, and in the end the occasional visionary winds up being confirmed in the future because people take films (as they should!) as cultural touchtones.

[Anonymous No.9719168]

>>9719120
Nolan's Batman is only fascist if you're reading it like a Marxist.

Any idea that doesn't glorify the working class, or helps the working class attain class consciousness, can be construed as fascist by a Marxist, because it by definition wants to retain the current order.

[Anonymous No.9719203]

>>9719120
You might be interested in this:

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-expose-direct-us-military-intelligence-influence-on-1-800-movies-and-tv-shows-36433107c307

What if the movie is seen as a joint collaboration between the State and the Director-qua-cultural-subconscious of the people? It's not quite propaganda nor censorship. Rather it's the state genuinely making art. It coops ideologies and also visionaries. What happens when your ubermensch is a product of the military-industrial complex?

[Anonymous No.9719212]

>>9718544
Maybe he saw hope in their goal of preservation of culture or something

[Anonymous No.9719219]

>>9719203
Will read! Thx anon.

>What if the movie is seen as a joint collaboration between the State and the Director-qua-cultural-subconscious of the people? It's not quite propaganda nor censorship. Rather it's the state genuinely making art. It coops ideologies and also visionaries. What happens when your ubermensch is a product of the military-industrial complex?

Exactly what you would expect, I would think. The collective unconscious memeing itself by way of seduction and spectacle. And shit films with great special effects.

Need *auteurs.* Filmmakers with *vision.* Kubrick/Welles/Kurosawa/insert here. Auteur theory all day every day.

[Anonymous No.9719222]

>>9718972

Also note the self consciously featureless protagonist that is simultaneously the 'most important person in the universe'. The influence of videogames on film has been greatly underestimated. Emmet is player 1, ie. YOU.

Dreamworks' Wreck it Ralph (2012) is probably the clearest predecessor to the lego movie. The product placement saturated multi brand crossover animated adventure romp. probably the defining film genre of the last decade, even more so than superhero movies. The upcoming emoji movie (1 Billion USD$ product placement deal) uses the same basic structure and the same character archetypes.

Pixar's Inside Out(2015). Will dissociative identity disorder reach epidemic levels in children ?

The manic pixie dream girl love interest with 'quirky' dyed hair is everywhere. what could that mean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ_JOBCLF-I

[Anonymous No.9719256]

>>9719222
>Also note the self consciously featureless protagonist that is simultaneously the 'most important person in the universe'. The influence of videogames on film has been greatly underestimated. Emmet is player 1, ie. YOU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxoL3uQbPoc

[Anonymous No.9719261]

>>9719222
Don't forget /pol/'s take on Angry Birds.

Like what did they mean by that? A testing ground for coopting /pol/?

[Anonymous No.9719272]

>>9719261
Angry Birds was so redpilled it might as well have been a psyop. Counter-redpilling by over-redpilling? Or just actual redpilling?
>tfw given the sponge to wipe away the horizon

[Anonymous No.9719277]

>>9718992
progressivism is a religion, dummy. its neo-puritanism

[Anonymous No.9719296]

>>9719222
>The manic pixie dream girl love interest with 'quirky' dyed hair is everywhere. what could that mean?
same thing it means in anime
its easier to identify the girl with the weird colored hair

[Anonymous No.9719297]

>>9719222
wtf I hate capitalism now

[Anonymous No.9719311]

>>9719272
>yfw our sponges are oversaturated and those whose wipe do so in futility

>>9719296
Actually in anime it's the most boring colored hair that is the protagonist.

[Anonymous No.9719350]

>>9719277
>neo-puritanism
Judeaic justice ethics and prophetic righteousness + Christian universalism + a light spicing of greek rationalism (which is inherently inegalitarian).
FTFY.

Don't fall for Moldbug's meme-history.

[Anonymous No.9719352]

>>9718594
not him but what Junger work is that from? I'm trying to read everything I can by him.

[Anonymous No.9719359]

>>9719311
Hey, it *looks* like work...

I've been thinking about this too. Baudrillard. He's the Hegel of irony, if that makes sense. When the Revolution can no longer keep up to the signs of the Revolution he turns back on the Revolution and goes back to Nietzsche.

Simulation is perhaps analogous to the Phenomenology but for the *Object.* For capital. For an unconscious externalized and beginning with an alienated consciousness growing *more* divided and not less so. Something like that. Yes? No?

>>9719311
anime color theory is classic semiotic fun

[Anonymous No.9719363]

>>9719297
Good, good, embrace your hatred of capitalism from the right. The left has had a monopoly on hating capitalism for too long.

[Anonymous No.9719371]

>>9719352
The Forest Passage.

I am literally copying it out by hand, I shit you not. I want it engraved on my brain at a deeper level than anything else.

[Anonymous No.9719389]

>>9719371
Nice, I'm waiting on Heliopolis in the mail...if it ever arrives.

Been trying to find Forest Passage at a reasonable price.

Any other Junger works you like?

[Anonymous No.9719403]

>>9719389
I can't read German b/c I suck. Of him I've read Storm of Steel and Eumeswil. Loved them both.

Junger was fucking astro-based there and back again. I'm all-in on this man. All the way.

[Anonymous No.9719419]

>>9719363
The "right" only supports "free market" "capitalism" because the "left" keeps on blowing government money on "leftist" "projects".

>>9719359
I read that book when I was in high school and was utterly confused yet intrigued. I think the meaning that can be salvaged from that occurrence is that I was already primed for masochism.

>tfw too young to have witnessed the gulf war as it currently unfolded

[Anonymous No.9719424]

>>9719403
Yeah, I really enjoyed The Glass Bees and Marble Cliffs (although I think maybe this one didn't have the best translator).

Trying to decide between buying 3 volumes of his WWII era diaries or get a nice french biography of the man.

I really love his prose, not to mention his general lifestlye was awesome. He's got a way of writing simply but evoking so much. Only thing I can sort of compare it to is Tolstoy, which is basically the highest praise I can give a prose writer.

[Anonymous No.9719447]

>>9719389

Different anon.

You might check out Aladdin's Problem. It's short, but deceptively dense, and a good distillation of Jünger's mature thinking. Nice way to wet your toes.

[Anonymous No.9719474]

>>9719447
My toes are already wet. It's all a matter of what overpriced out of print work of his I buy first.

[Anonymous No.9719478]

>>9719359
> For an unconscious externalized and beginning with an alienated consciousness growing *more* divided and not less so.
You ever read anything by disquietism? Consciousness itself is a kind of alienation and awareness.

[Anonymous No.9719481]

>>9718544
>>9719212
If I took something out of the Strauss thread, then that nazism as a form of German nihilism wasn't completely nihilistic and at least fielded a defence of the ideal of the closed society which is associated with traditionalism and classic morality. Nazism still sought to destroy civilization but it was not as nihilistic as its materialist opponents, US capitalism and soviet communism

[Anonymous No.9719488]

>>9719419
It's his most famous book but starting with it makes no sense, he's right in between his Marxist period and his Nietzschean period.

Baudrillard is proto-reactionary not Because Reasons but because he follows Marxism all the way to Georges Bataille's funhouse, which is Where Memes Go To Die. He should be one of the patron saints of vapourware. But even then he's not full Reaction b/c he's too fucking smart to be *full anything.* Just a guy who knew that the day of Feels > Reals was coming. Too cool. Baudrillard only ever goes up my power rankings, the worse and weirder things get.

Get with the Marxist stuff first, imho, then into We Transsexuals Now fun later.

>>9719424
He threaded the needle. The anarch and not the sovereign. Junger is That Dude.

>The forest rebel is the concrete individual, and he acts in the concrete world. He has no need of theories or of laws concocted by some party jurist to know what is right. He descends to the very springs of morality, where the waters are not yet divided and directed into institutional channels. Matters become simple here - assuming something uncorrupted still lives in him. We already saw that the great experience of the forest is the encounter with one’s own Self, with one’s invulnerable core, with the being that sustains and feeds the individual phenomenon in time. This meeting, which aids so powerfully in both returning to health and banishing fear, is also of highest importance in a moral sense. It conducts us to that strata which underlies all social life and has been common to all since the origins. It leads to the person who forms the foundation beneath the individual level, from whom the individuations emanate. At this depth there is not merely community; there is identity. It is this that the symbol of the embrace alludes to. The I recognizes itself in the other, following the age-old wisdom, “Thou art that.” This other may be a lover, or it may be a brother, a fellow sufferer, or a defenceless neighbour. By helping in this manner, the I also benefits itself in the eternal. And with this the basic order of the universe is confirmed.

>Only a miracle can save us from such whirlpools. This miracle has happened, even countless times, when a man stepped out of the lifeless prisons to extend a helping hand to others. This has happened even in prisons, indeed especially there. Whatever the situation, whoever the other, the individual can become this fellow human being - and thereby reveal his native nobility. The origins of aristocracy lay in giving protection, protection from the threat of monsters and demons. This is the hallmark of nobility, and it still shines today in the guard who secretly slips a piece of bread to a prisoner. This cannot be lost, and on this the world subsists. These are the sacrifices on which it rests.

Plus he just looked *dapper as fuck.* I can not find a flaw in this man.

>>9719478
Not yet. Got a recommendation?

[Anonymous No.9719493]

>>9718544
His vision for National Socialism was to realize the historical destiny of the German people. Heidegger thought that this destiny was manifested in the great works of Art, and he considered that his work was to interpret the words of the Gods that spoke through the poet (Hölderlin). Then the Führer (Führer comes from fahren: to drive, to lead. Same as Duce, from duco: to lead or guide) could lead the Volk to its historical destiny, that had been manifested in the works of the poet. It's important to realize that Heidegger was a revolutionary and a conservative, so this historical destiny, while being something radically new, always comes from a previous tradition.

Basically Heidegger wanted an aesthetization of politics, which in a way is what the Nazis tried to do: to turn the world into a work of art. But of course the only way to do this is to rip the world apart. Celan talks about this: how the horror of fascism happens imbued in the German romantic tradition. The nazis were descendants of Hölderlin, Wagner and the German romanticism. Many nazis were vegetarians and naturists (the Wehrmacht for instance wore oak leaves on their uniforms). The extermination of the jews was conducted alongside the formation of classical orchestras in the extermination camps, which is what Celan is getting at in his poem "Todesfuge". What makes the jewish genocide so unique is that it was conducted algonside (and in the name of) the sublime.

[Anonymous No.9719500]

>>9719488
I meant Disquietism the blog. The nemocentric society is the most interesting thing it has cranked out.

[Anonymous No.9719552]

>>9719488
girardfag, is that you?

good to see you reading junger

[190cm master race !!0fFMSfJHLfv No.9719559]

>>9719168
are you mad? marxists are one of the only few people who don't cry sheep over the use of the world facists

[Anonymous No.9719560]

>>9719203
>What happens when your ubermensch is a product of the military-industrial complex?
Are there examples of heroes like this in modern cinema?

[Anonymous No.9719562]

>>9719500
Oh shit. This? We were just talking about it in one of the Land threads a while back. Based SC Hickman &c. I linked to this article from that place, so...yeah. Disquietism fuck yeah.

http://earth-wizard.livejournal.com/47133.html

The nemocentric society is a thing. I have Metzinger's book on my to-read list but it will be a while before I get there. Being No One. It's a good look and it definitely speaks to my inner Zen guy as well (check out Hajime Tanabe for Zen Hegel, it's pretty neat).

https://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/en/files/2012/12/JWH-Tanabe-global.pdf

A more enlightened society would cast a fish-eye at not any one particular strand of idpol but all things idpol, to my mind. Here Be Dragons. All this acceleration tells me that, of course, you can't ever Be No One more than capital can, and even seduction only teaches it more about how to seduce.

But I think I'm accelerated out now. Makes for good but increasingly demented theoretical sorcery after a while. And the problem with embiggening Junger is that I can't do it while being a neurotic paranoid slob.

>This is what man really wants to know. Here is the germ of his temporal anxiety, the cause of his thirst, which grows in the desert - this desert that is time. The more time dilates, the more conscious and compelling but also the more empty it becomes in its tiniest fractions, the more will burn the thirst for orders that transcend time.

>Man thus dying of thirst looks quite correctly to the theologian to alleviate his suffering, to alleviate it according to the original theological model of the staff striking water from the rock. If today we observe the spirit turning to philosophers for answers to this supreme question and contenting itself with increasingly discounted interpretations of the world, this is not a sign that the foundations have changed but rather that the intermediaries are no longer called behind the curtain. In such circumstances science is a better option, because some of the rubble blocking the approaches is also formed by the grand old words, which first became conventions, then annoyances, and in the end simply boring.

>A very significant event here is philosophy’s turn from knowledge to language; it brings the spirit back into close contact with a primal phenomenon. This is more important than any physical discovery. The thinker enters a field in which an alliance is finally possible again with the theologian, and with the poet.

Clean that room, I guess. Good god. How fucking clean was Junger's room. Jesus murphy. Who gets kicked off my 3x3 list to make room? Things to think about.

>>9719552
That's me matey. Trying to squeeze in a little more /lit/ time before I move. I'll be AWOL for a while (but I might cheat and peek in once in a while.)

[Anonymous No.9719727]

>>9719562
Metzinger is great. The Ego Tunnel is good too for showing off to STEMfags.

Junger's room was pretty fucking clean I bet. 102 year old world war ONE veteran.

>>9719560
Tony Stark

[Anonymous No.9719748]

>>9719016
>Or maybe The Republic is one huge metaphor for the process of reason.

This is fucking great, by the way.

[Anonymous No.9719835]

>>9719748
MacIntyre says more or less the same thing but with more eloquence and ancient Greek namedropping and less nihilism.

>tfw you will never be Catholic

[Anonymous No.9719864]

>>9716414
This, why do people agree with Johnosn, Burke, etc? Philistinism is the way to go! Why should things that work be sustained by posterity? Hurr durr can't kow nufin nuffin matters hurr durr durr

[Anonymous No.9719878]

>>9719835
>tfw you will never be Catholic
Probably too late for me too. Everything I hear about MacIntyre sounds good. Haven't read After Virtue yet. I'm certain I will be persuaded.

Heidegger tho. Christian Existentialism. Dat Being. Close enough.

I doubt the Christian anarchists would turn you away. Decoupling the interwoven strands of Christianity, Judaism and Marxism is an interesting experience. Winding them up again seems to lead to acceleration. Can't Wait To Get Fucked. There's surely a better way.

>less nihilism
I'm in.

[Anonymous No.9719909]

>>9718543
Reading storm of steel ATM. Must read everything this man ever wrote...

[Anonymous No.9719953]

>>9719878
Why be a Christian existentialist when you could just be a Christian? The "paradox" of Christianity, which Kierkegaard highlights, is nothing more than a literally divine perspective on the world, and the way in which this is sometimes difficult for humans to grasp. "God sees not as man sees." You have to be willing to grasp God not as some concept--Being, Will, whatever--but as some entity that acts independently, with his own reasons and for his own purposes. You have to be willing to see God as Other, as the real, existent Other who is related to Man in many ways but at the same time is not merely a product of Man. I mean, it's really the other way around: Man is a product of God. I feel as though this unwillingness, this difficulty, in accepting the existence of God as an independent entity is the root of so much of the modern problem of the idea of God.

[Anonymous No.9719961]

He means that Heidegger was a Nazi

[Anonymous No.9719969]

>>9719878
Christian Anarchism is so fucking shallow, It's a ghetto.

[Anonymous No.9720103]

>>9715946
Read the news. That's what he meant.

[Anonymous No.9720111]

What would Heidegger say about transgenderism and pride parades?

[Anonymous No.9720162]

>>9720111
Probably wouldn't be too different from a Traditionalist Catholic perspective, something something superficial something.

[Anonymous No.9720232]

>>9719909
Looking forward to more Junger threads on /lit/. I've tried to start a few but they don't stick. Would be interested to hear more from another anons who've read more into him.

>>9719953
>Why be a Christian existentialist when you could just be a Christian?
Vanity, I suspect. Narcissism. Other equally stupid arguments. Laziness def.

>the "paradox" of Christianity, which Kierkegaard highlights, is nothing more than a literally divine perspective on the world, and the way in which this is sometimes difficult for humans to grasp.
Brother you can say that again.

>You have to be willing to see God as Other, as the real, existent Other who is related to Man in many ways but at the same time is not merely a product of Man. I mean, it's really the other way around: Man is a product of God.
I follow the Catholic/Christian threads on /lit/ but don't post much in them. I pretty much only post in Land/Moldbug/Acceleration threads. But I usually check the Catholic ones too.

My interest in Christianity only began in earnest with Girard, which wasn't *such* a long time ago. Apart from Heidegger I haven't read much else that connects to it. Same goes for lived experience. I *know* how to think Marxism and deconstruction. This all begins with frustration with Derrida, who wasn't a bad dude at all but bothered the shit out of me because I started with him, or his influence.
>also because you were and remain ignorant
So I read all of this shit to get *away* from religion because Because Reasons.
>and apparently that hasn't worked out so well

>I feel as though this unwillingness, this difficulty, in accepting the existence of God as an independent entity is the root of so much of the modern problem of the idea of God.
I get this. Personally I attribute it to modern liberalism: as Barzun says, five centuries of uninterrupted abstraction, analysis, individualization, emancipation, scientism et al will begin to add up after a while. And it will: as an acceleration carousel, a transcendental time machine with a very ugly final sequence. That anything *could* and *should remain* independent from us is a problem for some. Especially me.
>b/c i want everything and in spite of all this i understand very little about the fundamentally mimetic concept of gift-giving

Anyways anon, all this to say you're basically right, I think. If you're a serious practicing Christian you are in possession of a remote control device that will probably work on me, most of the time.

>>9720111
>pride parades
100% fallenness, but there was no doubt also a lot of homoeroticism and transphilia in the Nazi party to which he infamously belonged. So probably it would be one of those things you don't want to bring up at Todtnauberg while he's bringing out the bread and wine and the Holderlin.

[Anonymous No.9720281]

>>9720111
I probably wouldn't be taking estrogen pills if it wasn't for Being and Time, many such cases

[Anonymous No.9720335]

>>9715960
lel, ever since mankind started charting the stars and the moon, and unravelling mysteries, it was on its way towards "institutionalised nihilism".

[Anonymous No.9720373]

>>9720232
>I get this. Personally I attribute it to modern liberalism: as Barzun says, five centuries of uninterrupted abstraction, analysis, individualization, emancipation, scientism et al will begin to add up after a while. And it will: as an acceleration carousel, a transcendental time machine with a very ugly final sequence. That anything *could* and *should remain* independent from us is a problem for some. Especially me.

I suppose the answer to this, though it may be unsatisfying, is the good old Christian bedrock of Faith. A willingness to admit we don't know, and yet we do know. A knowing beyond knowing, a willingness to not know but to trust regardless.

My own perspective on faith is of course shaped by my own experiences as a believer, but also to a large degree by John Henry Newman. I read some of his Fifteen Sermons Preached Before The University of Oxford, and what he had to say about faith in them left a strong impression on me. This article is a good summation: http://www.catholicstand.com/john-henry-newman-on-the-psychology-of-faith-and-reason/

I highly recommend checking out Newman if you haven't already.

[Anonymous No.9720398]

The world is doomed. The world is ending. Plastikman predicted this. He predicted it like 17 years ago and none of you listened. Have you listened to his album Consumed? I thinlk it's about how consumery is destroying there world but also how to kind of uh embrace this destruction and rave past midnight into the new world of barbaism? you know Heideggner is a clever guy but okay lets assume the world ends. An end is a beginning is a quote i remmeber from Friedisch Nietzsche. So it's true here too. The world is doomed ok, so as we know it it will end, that's well known. As i said Plastikam predicted this when Techno was still at the peak in berlin without having become absolute mainstream (remember Outkast in the early years) And if this is true it just means that maybe a new world is being created which also follows it's own laws of developments and who knows. I mean: you DON'T know. I sometimes think i know but i can't know until i know for sure, but hey: Who says the new world isn't going to be better? People here read plenty of bookss you should know just how in flux all is. Like it cna be beautiful for oyu but not for me or vice versa and you just gotta turn of that superficial judgement which like judges all before you have percepted it from several dimensions. I thinkt's thats important if you are going around and want to understand stuff. So there is a new world and maybe there is a new culture and new gods and idols. You know, Plastikman alllll predicted this There is a song named Locomotion on his album check him out. And if you read Le Illusiones Perdu by Balzac you will have this same kind of feeling. From the town to the metropolis and everything's changed and seems scary and intimidating and also corrupting and it needs great will like d'arthez to resist the temptations that will in the end lead to downfall. So maybe if we now, meaning mankind, like in the song converge from lastikmans Consumed, if we go from town to metropolis, like this is what globalization means. It means that everything is globalized so that each city is itself like a globus, so we have to be like d'arthez and less like Heidegger and we can do some really good things and while it's hard work and you need to work until you die, it's worth it, because it's morally good.

This is something to ponder. Also if you read that novel by Don DeliLLo Mao 2 there's also this new world there. With Khomeini and the girl sitting in front of the screen and she's like: How could people sit here like that and pretends it's nothing. Do they not see that the world is being shaken. So you must be this girl, you must be ike here and be shaked and then you will see the truth because if you let yourself not be shaked there is a part of you that sort of denies the change, denies what's really happening and you will go blind. And Heidegger was blind wasn't he? I mean he was not being shaken by the nazis and tried to put it into tame categories but he was wrong, i mean he knew that late

[Anonymous No.9720415]

>>9720398
the world isn't ending though. cultures have come and gone, yet here we are.

[Anonymous No.9720445]

>>9720415
that's exactly what Plastikman is saying, now isn't he? I mean hey we talk about cultures like european culture. But go smaller then and look at subcultures. Like punks you know. Hey, Punks are now more friendly than regullar people, right? So we have unks who have changed and we have european culture which has changed and it's all over soon but it's not really ending if you rave past midnight. So a combination of steadfastyness and a sort of openeyed nakedness to that which was and will be like, like virutal reality. So vritual Reality if you look into it it's just really stuff on glasses right? It's like saying: hey, it's just cultures appearing and dsieappearing. But then there is (imagine this now with me) there's this video game and you play thisg game and it's totally new. It's like i don't know. Cinema when it was invented by that one guy in germany, Erich Lang? So Erich Lang created Fitzcarraldo, with that voice speaking from the speaker, and there was cinema then and geez. Look where cinema is now. It's like Cinema history is mankinds history ocndensed, like also Plastikmans consumed is the consumer era condensed and alo sthe end is there, you just need to listen really closely and you will find it. And so it's Virtual Reality now and tomorrow it will be Real Virtuality like you are actualy there. So things appear and siappear and they change oyu and you change them. It's a democratic process because democracy is always there. Dictatorship is democratic. So is democracy even if there is only one ruler. And you decide what will happen though of course you are powerless, you are just part of a mass and the mass is doing things. The mass can rave when there is change outsid eof it's hands, or it can be blind and deny things. These are thw two poptions and the answer lies in msuic. You can stop all of this, if you just turn away and go into the jungle like Aguirre. Or you can rave and see the change and say: hey, that is it. And maybe children will die less and there will be no homosexuality or aids and also less wars but more terrorism and dron estrikes maybe even on your own nation but there was something that got taken away for it right, so it's okay but you must still be shaken. You must be in this state like if you took a lot of Shrooms, where you will be like a field of gravity and reality is a black hole in your center you know? You can think about it, but you must feel it. And that's why i , personally speaking, think there should be psychedelic courses as to activate the 80% unused in your brain that give you some cosmic access and some insight into what's really going on because psychology in your head, this was proven by frued, i slike a gravit yfield. It's not like it's the trauma (trauma dolores) that shapes your field of gravity, rather the gravity shapes the trauma and constitutes itself as one (one person is fucked by rape, the other is not, it depends on this gravity field which is also your soul. you get this?

[Anonymous No.9720457]

>>9716429
nick land would be the villain in a heidegger comic desu

[Anonymous No.9720481]

>>9720373
>I suppose the answer to this, though it may be unsatisfying, is the good old Christian bedrock of Faith.
Yeah. I *know* that I'm being paranoid. That I *do* know. Even in an age of hyperstition (which is only to say, a form of seduction). It's time for an analytic turn, in a sense, for me. I am anti-identitarian and pro-mimetic, which in the end points towards Big Inclusiveness. The bigger, and deeper, and *more coherent,* the better.

With Acceleration/Nick Land I have basically seen all of the capitalist ultraviolence I am interested in looking for. I am entirely convinced in that regard. Metaphysics > politics.

So what gets one out, or over, paranoia and suspicion? Not more paranoia and suspicion. And most definitely not when it is Ernst Junger in uniform sneaking a piece of bread to a prisoner.

Here's another passage from TPF that got me:

>The superabundance of the world lies before us. Every authentic spiritual guidance is related to this truth - it knows how to bring man to the point where he recognizes the reality. This is most evident where the teaching and the example are united: when the conquerer of fear enters the kingdom of death, as we see Christ, the highest benefactor, doing. With its death, the grain of wheat brought forth not a thousand fruits, but fruits without number. The superabundance of the world was touched, which every generative act is related to as a symbol of time, and of time's defeat. In its train followed not only the martyrs, who were stronger than the stoics, stronger than the caesars, stronger than the hundred thousand spectators surrounding them in the arena - there also followed the innumerable others who died with their faith intact.

>To this day this is a far more compelling force than it at first seems. Even when cathedrals crumble, a patrimony of knowledge remains that undermines the palaces of the oppressors like cannibals. Already on those grounds we may be sure that the pure use of force, exercised in the old manner, cannot prevail in the long term. With this blood, substance was infused into history, and it is with good reason that we still number our years from this epochal turning point. The full fertility of theogony reigns here, the mythical generative power. The sacrifice is replayed on countless altars.

Acceleration says, we will literally be crushed by superabundance for lack of altars. Even if I have problems with Faith I find it hard to disagree with anything that Junger, Girard, Heidegger or de Maistre says. To name only a few. An eclectic bunch no doubt. But.

It's perhaps time I had an analytic turn now anyways, I think.

>A willingness to admit we don't know, and yet we do know.
Yeah.

>A knowing beyond knowing, a willingness to not know but to trust regardless.
Yeah.

Pic rel.

Will read this and look into Newman. Thanks, anon.

[Anonymous No.9720489]

>>9720481
>TPF
>jesus fuck man learn to grammar

[Anonymous No.9720519]

>>9716345

what a bad post

[*sniff* No.9720533]

>>9718703
The jealousy is necessary, of course. If crime and sin goes unpunished it spreads.

[Anonymous No.9720536]

>>9718732
>marxism denies dreams and makes the "real" world the dream

you've got it backwards

our lives are the dream of sleeping capital

[Anonymous No.9720538]

>>9720445

[Anonymous No.9720539]

>>9718836
Noble lie isn't a tool to achieve an end, but rather a tool to perpetuate order.

[Anonymous No.9720555]

>>9720536
>our lives are the dream of sleeping capital

made me think of this

[Anonymous No.9720586]

>>9720481
>Acceleration says, we will literally be crushed by superabundance for lack of altars.
This actually ties back into this:
https://endnotes.org.uk/issues/4/en/endnotes-the-defeat-of-the-workers-movement

Basically, the working-class believed that as capitalism expanded, so would it too, but the twentieth century concretized such immense gains in production that the problem is no longer even producing enough to sustain everyone but finding an outlet for consumption that gives a good return. We need to get good ways of spending our monies now - maybe something like a war economy that produces massive waste but soaks up the surplus production and surplus unemployed men... Or maybe encouraging elites to act even more extravagantly elite.
https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/02/04/spend-the-money/
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/03/inequalities/

[Anonymous No.9720627]

>>9720555
Or this. Either way it sure isn't pretty. It really is the fucking Matrix. Or becoming that.

Deleuzian Plane of Immanence IRL seems somehow less appealing and actually exactly like the Lovecrafitan sex and death shitshow Land suspected. Hope there's some good movies on the VR. And also that they have the chicken-flavored pink gelatin. That one's my favorite kind.
>tfw you remember what mcnuggets actually look like before they are mcnuggetized

>>9720586
>Basically, the working-class believed that as capitalism expanded, so would it too, but the twentieth century concretized such immense gains in production that the problem is no longer even producing enough to sustain everyone but finding an outlet for consumption that gives a good return. We need to get good ways of spending our monies now - maybe something like a war economy that produces massive waste but soaks up the surplus production and surplus unemployed men... Or maybe encouraging elites to act even more extravagantly elite.

This. That's the deal. Overproduction. Joseph Stalin's wet dream. Remember Orwell's solution: Floating Fortresses. We have always been at war with Eurasia. Whatever.

How about now? Who are we at war with? The Terrorists (well, this is actually true, but you get the idea). How about a Death Star? That sounds like a good idea. Can put a Trump Grill in there too. The Galactic Federation surely would have had a high employment rate. The real problem is finding insurance companies prepared to underwrite Death Stars that get periodically blown up every couple of years by livable rebels...unless, of course, you can cut a deal with the rebels...

I'm so into the breadpill these days it's not even funny. Piety of thought. Silence. Forest passages. Metaphysics of antiproduction. I see nothing here I don't like.

[Anonymous No.9720697]

>>9720555

science fiction is groping toward self-consciousness of our metaphysical status in an era where philosophy has by and large forsaken this pursuit. that is why the accelerationists are doing the most interesting work right now.

[Anonymous No.9720707]

>>9720586
>Or maybe encouraging elites to act even more extravagantly elite.

I think this was one workaround Sloterdijk came up with: essentially, patronage. Reward the rich for investing in public works. I don't know how, atm, but I remember it being not a completely stupid idea. I think it was much the same as what the second article was getting at. Prestige.

Of course, in the end, there's no better way to reward the rich in this way than by simply letting them absorb the whole thing into private ownership. We can dream up other stupid meme examples - fashion shows! applauding their largesse! building statues! whatever - but in the end we wind up with some version of princes, pharaohs, immortal heads in jars or whatever.

I think I'm going to pull a Zizek move here v/NRx, about how he described Judith Butler: it's a revolutionary sensibility that actually is already the norm. Capital isn't likely to deliver up rich aristocrats, or at least ones you can see. Things will just quietly desertify, terrorist attacks will increase, Troubles With The Neighbours, and -

And?

The Spice Must Flow, but it also doesn't. It accumulates in invisible vaults accruing value. What we see is the debt cloud. We can see that. And sometimes we hear about Xi Jinping or Putin executing some rich and corrupt billionaire.

How do you get the rich to spend money they don't want to spend? Guilt? Shame? Lawyers? Pistols? They need incentives. Nice memes. Nobody can resist an adorable tyke who wants to be an artisanal baker.

>Our society directs gifts of wealth toward remedying prestige inequalities, a dubious endeavor, rather than toward remedying inequalities in material consumption and wealth.

Yeah. *This.* It's a mimetic world...

So yeah. More prestige? Prestige. And fewer Black Holes: we know what's down there. Sharks devouring sharks. Can we add the Need for Prestige to the Maslow hierarchy yet? On Planet Meme it would go up there near the top...

Mimetic superorganisms. I'm into it. Once upon a time the banks were supposed to regulate those animal spirits...how about America's Favorite Billionaire Mogul? So You Think You Can Rule?
>it really is this bad
>just come to todtnauberg girardfag. chop some wood. pump some water
>not a crazy idea inner heidegger
>& later we'll conquer poland
>why'd you have to make it weird

[Anonymous No.9720708]

>>9720555
>>9720627

call me a weeb but one of the finest figures i have found for the phenomenology of the subject under late capitalism is the dream-zanarkand from final fantasy x.

[Anonymous No.9720744]

>>9720708
I'm going to spoil that image because I think you're right. This certainly checks out. Confirmed for hyperstitial dreamsphere intruding upon Japanese unconsciousness.

>weeb
Fuck that. The Japanese are awesome. Masamune Shirow is just as alert to this as William Gibson. Like a little island-satellite distantly orbiting the rest of this craziness but sufficiently removed from it all after 300 years of feudal order to have an unfailingly interesting outsider perspective on it all.

Check out Tanabe, linked above, or the Kyoto school, for how they think about all of this. Wabi-sabi, mono no aware and all the rest. When Heidegger showed up there all they wanted to do is ask him what took him so long.
>and Lacan was baffled: you can't psychoanalyze these people!

Japan knows what's up. Why does cyberpunk go so mysteriously well with *Tokyo* and not New York? The Naked City and detective novels, film noir et al were good for the 20C. I'll take Tokyo (or Shanghai) for the 21C.

>t. ff6 fanboy tho.
>doomsday clown > empire and rebels
>anticlimactic second act
>10/10 credit sequence
>ultros

[Anonymous No.9720747]

>>9720707
>patronage. Reward the rich for investing in public works.
This is basically what Trump wants to do. Tax cuts in return for infrastructure investment and keeping jobs @ home.
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/09/we_are_all_mercantilists_now.html

It's going to be interesting to see how the struggle between mercantilist state capitalism vs open borders multicultural open society plays out. Seems like the latter is already getting swallowed whole by its constradictions, while everyone says that the former should collapse anytime soon but it keeps not collapsing and just chugging on.

[Anonymous No.9720808]

>>9720747
>This is basically what Trump wants to do. Tax cuts in return for infrastructure investment and keeping jobs @ home.

I don't want to turn this into a /pol/ thread, but what? How is that supposed to work? There is no incentive for the wealthy to 'invest' their tax cuts in infrastructure maintenance. It would all be sunk cost.

Better to just, y'know, tax them and then use that revenue to, y'know, maintain/upgrade the existing infrastructure and invest (yes, state's can invest) in mass transportation and green tech.

[Anonymous No.9720833]

>>9720747
See TLP link, read TLP link. Confirm that TLP is a Sage.
>In the new world order, shipping is the internet; the goods are data. Drink up, me hearties, yo ho.
How the fuck does this guy manage to be right about everything? Everything he writes about narcissism is fucking brilliant. We truly do live on a planet of cannibalistic narcissists. That is the thing.

>It's going to be interesting to see how the struggle between mercantilist state capitalism vs open borders multicultural open society plays out.
More Fun in 2020, no doubt. And of course there is no reason to force people to choose Coke or Pepsi. Except that it is the one thing that Coke and Pepsi can agree on. And, you know, because in the Matrix, Taste Matters.
>capital wants your tongue and your eyes
>give it to uuuuuuussssssss...
>we will give you a new nervous system in the Matrix
>there you can fly...
>give it to us, the precious...
>*slaps self*

>Seems like the latter is already getting swallowed whole by its constradictions, while everyone says that the former should collapse anytime soon but it keeps not collapsing and just chugging on.
Toad/hot water. We will cyberneticize. The collapse will be within. And those who do not wish to cyberneticize any more than they already are will be out of work. It's truly horrible to think about. But I always take the hard-line/ultraparanoid road on these things, hoping to be wrong.

And I want off this ride now. Not politically. And not cynically. What would Junger do? Put on a uniform and go and do the right thing. Not be inhumane. Which is hard. But what's the alternative?

>the alternative is, girardfag, you learn to write code, or fix washing machines, or become a beekeeper, or fix blocked colons, and you go to church on sunday, get married, have children, and do not dwell on this shit, as has always been the case

More from the Shirow file, apropos of nothing I suppose, but still gorgeous.

[Anonymous No.9720843]

>>9720744
>an unfailingly interesting outsider perspective on it all.
>>and Lacan was baffled: you can't psychoanalyze these people!

couple this with Adorno's remark that "mass culture is psychoanalysis in reverse" and you have a recipe for some interesting critique. it reminds me of the jerk-off scene in EoE, which is really only the apex of a whole tropology in anime of cynical, mocking bait for the audience. they've mapped out the capitalist imaginary, and have the symbolic pre-loaded for ten years in advance at all times.

as to your comment on cyberpunk i -tend- to think there is a spot of orientalism at work, but fuck it, because so much japanese culture is occidentalism that the distinction is self-consciously dissolved. japan really is the dream of capital.

glad im not the only final fantasy fag around here. i think if you take some levi-strauss savage mind type cultural anthropology type stuff and through it at an invention like the sphere grid or the turn based battle system (as a form of temporality? idk) you've got a structuralist revival on your hands. the possibilities are endless because anime and vidya are media that are completely un-self-conscious about trying to make the most appealing commodity.

[Anonymous No.9720857]

>>9720808
Green tech is going to take some time to mature, it has just started being cost-efficient. Since a good part of our economic slowdown has to do with a lowering of the energy available per capita, clean coal, shale oil and some nuclear is going to have to cover up the patches until we can get ourselves some nice fusion reactor or something.

https://jancovici.com/en/energy-transition/societal-choices/a-couple-of-thoughts-on-the-energy-transition/
https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-and-changing-energy-sources/
>What counts is not its price, but the available volume: energy is now what drives our economic activity far more than work or capital.
dat spenglerian faustian energy economy

[Anonymous No.9720885]

>>9715946

boy was he wrong, hehe

[Anonymous No.9720897]

>>9716421
>masters
>not bachelors

[Anonymous No.9720929]

>>9720843
And then you realize that the anime business model where they make the most money off merchandise means anime itself is advertising taken to the next level and mastered as an artform such that even people with no intention of buying merch end up literally watching advertisements of their own accord.

[Anonymous No.9720954]

>>9720929

old news bb

[Anonymous No.9721114]

>>9720843
>mass culture is psychoanalysis in reverse
Kek. Based Adorno. That's a *really* good line. Of course today the problem is that the special effects are so good we lose the critique...
>more auteurs damnit
Or, rather, just begin to learn a little detachment, and see it all as process. I've always had trouble with this. But detachment does not produce auteurs, I think. Or different kinds, perhaps. Always there is a balance.
>you're not detached because you too thirst for capital, and thinking about that has brought you to this. your malaise is well-deserved girardfag. no sympathy points for you
>damn inner self
>it's true tho

>it reminds me of the jerk-off scene in EoE
I got banned yesterday for asking for /lit/-approved anime. I will quietly and discreetly ask for it again. I watched Sky Crawlers on rec and it was outstanding. Seen Akira & GITS. Not sure if I have time right now to devote to a series, was hoping for films. Plz post if any come to mind, dope anime is dope but I'm not an anime guy.

>they've mapped out the capitalist imaginary, and have the symbolic pre-loaded for ten years in advance at all times
High praise.

>as to your comment on cyberpunk i -tend- to think there is a spot of orientalism at work, but fuck it, because so much japanese culture is occidentalism that the distinction is self-consciously dissolved. japan really is the dream of capital.
Fortunately my Orientalism is charming enough to be almost indetectable, with mildly self-deprecating flavors, and finishing on a playful little note of greentext.
>like this

Japan is interesting for so many reasons. Capital dreaming it is a man, or a man dreaming it is Capital?
>except that's not japan, that's china you nit
>that's the fun of being orientalist

>glad im not the only final fantasy fag around here
6 is all-time. 7 is awesome also, of course. But I go with 6. I've spent a lot of time thinking about Kefka and why that game was so interesting, why *nobody stops* the Doomsday Clown. Nietzsche &c. Very interesting game.
>plus the weird heidegger ref in ff7, steampunk and all that.
But with 6/7 there's no end of undergraduate-tier philosophy stuff to wank about. 6 especially though. Magitek and Espers.

>>9720857
>dat spenglerian faustian energy economy
Spengler forever ftw. What nobody would have expected was that the cities would be doing this in order to link up, wake up and become Colossus...

Elon Musk has big plans. Someday perhaps we will understand that it was always Eco, not Capital. We were doomed to live in interesting times, gents.

https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html/human-colossus

[Anonymous No.9721122]

>>9718544

he joined the Nazi party because he was a Nazi, not of the German race, but of the German language.

[Anonymous No.9721310]

>>9721114
Serial Experiments Lain, short series

[Anonymous No.9721317]

So who do I have to read to understand the terminology being thrown around in this thread?

[Anonymous No.9721333]

>>9719493
but didn't this "turn", the Holderin stuff, occur after WW2?

[Anonymous No.9721347]

>>9720843
>i think if you take some levi-strauss savage mind type cultural anthropology type stuff and through it at an invention like the sphere grid or the turn based battle system (as a form of temporality? idk) you've got a structuralist revival on your hands. the possibilities are endless because anime and vidya are media that are completely un-self-conscious about trying to make the most appealing commodity.

This really got me thinking and I'd like to talk more about this actually. I think this is a pretty neat idea. Base your vidya mechanics on philosophical concepts, or theories of mind...or use game mechanics to get at the aesthetics. Don't lose your mind asking *what* is transcendentally beautiful (everything!), ask *how* it is beautiful, and pick a theory of aesthetics to communicate accordingly. *Show* someone how it would feel.

And also this: there's no point (or diminishingly) in being *critical* in the way we used to. Games are supposed to be fun. Certain games make more *sense* when they are looked at from some perspectives rather than others. The meme critical mentality comes in when you start looking at a game through the wrong lens, the wrong perspective.

Take icycalm, for instance. He's got a complete theory of games. As a critic he is an auteur. He likes brutal Cave shooters, FPSs and so on, and he endorses the theory that goes with. He likes what he likes. Ok.

Pic rel is a favorite of mine. Personally I think it goes very well with Deleuze. *Yes,* you could look at it from a Marxist view, a Heideggerian view, whatever. But I think the best reading of the game itself arrives when you pick a certain philosopher to go with it.

Games *virtualize.* Philosophers *virtualize.* This is where things get interesting. Because games are, in a sense, a kind of plane of immanence. Yes, of course, there is the larger world surrounding it, all of this. But with games you go in there in order to disappear into that interesting space where the aesthetics and the mechanics meet.

I'm trying to do two things at once:

a) reduce fuckface criticism (running a tired Freudo-Marxist protocol on all games, w/ev), b/c this leads to soul-crushingly boring criticism, irony, &c

b) think about how and what games are, how they work, and so on.

What *game* best expresses Heidegger? What game best expresses Nietzsche? What game best expresses Deleuze? And so on. Because if you think of philosophies as being ultimately teachable, experiential, not-just-textual, then it stands to reason you could make interesting *virtual experiences,* aesthetic experiences, that illustrate some of this.

I mean with the big guys, of course, you can look at any game through their concepts. As in cinema, you can find objet a, Being, smooth and striated spaces, if you go looking hard enough for them. But maybe it would be more interesting to think in terms of games designed along these ideas, designed along these principles...

Forget *text.* Games are new territory.

[Anonymous No.9721385]

>>9721114
>I watched Sky Crawlers on rec and it was outstanding.
That was me. Glad you liked it. Any thoughts?

>I will quietly and discreetly ask for it again
How about Jin-Roh for that sweet fascoid fetishism?

[Anonymous No.9721396]

>>9721347
>This is where things get interesting. Because games are, in a sense, a kind of plane of immanence. Yes, of course, there is the larger world surrounding it, all of this. But with games you go in there in order to disappear into that interesting space where the aesthetics and the mechanics meet.
Or, they could be transcendent.

[Anonymous No.9721398]

>>9721317
Here you go, from the Nick Land threads

[Anonymous No.9721417]

>>9721385
>any thoughts?
You're a fucking bro, that was great.

>any other thoughts tho
Mamoru Oshii is based. I liked that he puts visuals first, plot second, and characters last. It just makes the whole thing a relief to watch. You're not going to get hero-ized, you can just sort of take in all those empty spaces and colours. As in, a complete judo-flip on everything the monomyth says you're supposed to do. The monomyth has fucked me up.

But Oshii doesn't care. Plot? A private clonewar entirely made sense. I love the sequences where it seems that all he wants to do is stage conversations between people as fucked-out as he is (that's what I thought, anyways). The post-credits ending scene was on a whole other level of cynicism too, if it meant what I thought it meant. Will watch again. Was well and truly exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. A+ recommendation.

>jin-roh
>sweet fascoid fetishism
Kek. Yes, I did pick this one up afterwards. Haven't watched it yet but now it's on deck. And also GITS 2: Innocence. I'm fine if it doesn't compare with the original, Oshii's an auteur and the GITS world is awesome.
>wish he could do more anime and less live-action but i guess the man needs a break
>garm wars? worth watching?

Oh yeah. I was recommended Berserk: The Golden Age. I have watched that. All three. And it had the effect on me that I presume it has on everyone. Requiem For a Dream-tier comedown for the next couple of days. Oh the fun.

>>9721396
Yeah, good call. That was a stroke of genius. I was thinking just more within the game: I want to a Deleuze-trip game, which one? I want to get a Heidegger-trip game, which one? I want to get a Nietzsche-trip game, which one? Like this.

You would have to work it into the mechanics, I think. Be a Time-Bending Wizard. Not just a story *about* that wizard, but really let you be that guy. Just an idea. But the Magic will all be in aesthetics + mechanics, much as icycalm says. My feeling is that games are *already* doing this, so...just accelerate it.

This may be only a meme idea, but I liked your idea of taking the battle sphere idea + CLS. Maybe you could explain more of it? Analogy?

>>9721317
For Land:
>read MARX. capital is very concisely and repeatedly described as following circuits. then read ADORNO to get a sense for how political economy inscribed itself into thought, and especially philosophical thought. finally read FREUD to understand how he situates the unconscious, NIETZSCHE to break any last romances you have with metaphysics, and then you can read DELEUZE AND GUATTARI to put it all together in the machinic wonderland continental theory was always heading for. after that LAND is almost legible; you should know about SPECULATIVE REALISM as well.

For Heidegger, pic rel is good. His difficulty/obscurity is way overrated. Once you see Dasein you won't unsee it.

>>9721310
This looks like exactly the thing. Fucking hell I love this board. Thanks anon!

[Anonymous No.9721515]

>>9720398
>Don DeliLLo Mao 2
Definitely one of his most underrated works. That whole part with the spectacle of the big marriage in the beginning, and the Khomeini thing, the deuteragonist attempting to capture pictures of the terrorist/hostage - there was a lot in there about the medium in which these horrific images are viewed through and how that helps viewers to deny the reality of how wrong everything is, especially in terms of society as opposed to the individual's feelings (the father watching his daughter marry the Korean, the girl watching the Khomeini events, etc.).

[Anonymous No.9721534]

>>9718516
Humanism itself is nihilism behind a facade. It makes the better thing look worse: it takes strong qualities and makes them weak.
>The undermining of our traditional religious and moral principles, which are really just metaphorical and allegorical abstracted truths,
Fuck off. I am absolutely sick of this shallow sentiment.
>>9719969
In it's popular form, yes. It is disgusting humanism. What it needs to become is properly radical and creationist.

[Anonymous No.9721540]

>>9720747
>>9720833
>TLP
What fucking happened to him, and what's the next logical step/where can I go to get similar content and similar, or at least enjoyable, prose with sad content?

[Anonymous No.9721541]

>>9719953
Christian existentialism has become so popular because it allows angst to be put behind a facade of something higher. It is an ideology which makes the worse thing look better. Despair has no place in Christianity.

[Anonymous No.9721542]

This thread reads like the delirium of Demons. The external world is Evil.

[Anonymous No.9721546]

>>9721541
>Despair has no place in Christianity.

Well, of course not, not in true Christianity. How can you sincerely believe the Gospels and feel anything but joy?

[Anonymous No.9721550]

>>9721417

(((Zimmerman)))

Convince me, again, why continental philosophy isn't a jewish plot?

[Anonymous No.9721585]

>>9721534

Define 'strong' and justify your definition

[Anonymous No.9721586]

Now only a God can save us. Now all has been filled with nothingness. Now the worse thing is made to seem better, and the better thing is made to seem worse. Humanism has raped creation; even movements to restore and conserve are humanist at the core. How must one respond to this 'bad news'? With good news: neoeuangelos. How is this world to be saved? A transvaluation. The subversion of modernity, where the better thing is made better and the worse is made worse. Humanism is rejected for Creationism; Skepticism (ontological nihilism) is rejected for Dogmatism; despair is rejected for elation.

[Anonymous No.9721589]

good thread

[Anonymous No.9721595]

>>9716414
>ending with

[Anonymous No.9721612]

>>9721585
Strong: meaning qualities and actions that take a good effort to achieve. Humanism takes strong qualities and makes them weak through ressentiment. For example, the very popular obsession with consent: to do something according to another takes an effort, but humanism takes this effort and makes consent an appeal to ressentiment. It does this by appealing to the quality's effort and reducing it to grubbery. That is, sniveling in feminist weakness (the delusion hat consent gives power, when really it takes strength).

In short, it takes strength and makes it weak due to an avoidance of what strength implies. Relativism (fence-sitting and agnosticism) is weak because 'lol i dunno it depends' is an incredibly simple and inoffensive position. Gnostiism is strong because it requires one to actually commit to what they hold true, rather than reject it when attacked.
>I believe this and will die for it
versus
>I believe this for now and will change what I believe according to popular demand
These types only hold beliefs because they are in-trend. Today's 'egalitarian' was yesterday's colonist.

[Anonymous No.9721649]

>>9715946
https://www.fastcompany.com/3062853/these-maps-show-how-much-of-the-us-is-covered
Thoreau had it right..until we remove ourselves from our Id, we will never be able to see our true contribution to chaos around us.. we are all a part until we understand our place.The Id can be a powerful presence but only if it stands true in the face of adversity.

[Anonymous No.9721974]

>>9718525
there's always new 15yos

[Anonymous No.9721985]

>>9720586
>Basically, the working-class believed that as capitalism expanded, so would it too
it literally did lad, you suffer of deep brain hacking, the middle class is less than 100 years old
even poverty today is a fucking dream compared to the misery it was pre 1900s

[Anonymous No.9722802]

>>9715946
Ernst Jünger called it titanism
“They know neither Greek myths nor Christian ethics nor French moralism nor German metaphusics nor the poetry of all the poets in the world. Before the true life, they are only dwarfs. But they are Goliath technicians – thus giants in every work of destruction, where they ultimately conceal their mission, that they ignore as such. They have a clarity and unusual precision about everything that is mechanical. They are confused, stunted, drowned, by all that is beauty and love. They are titans and cyclops, spirits of darkness, negators and enemies of all creative forces. Those who can reduce millions of years of organic development to nothing by a few meager efforts, without leaving anything behind that could equal the least spring of grass, the least grain of corn, the smaller wing of a mosquito. They are far from poems, wine, dreams, games, hopelessly lost in fallacious doctrines, articulated in the manner of pretentious professors. Nevertheless, they have their mission to accomplish.”

[Anonymous No.9722814]

>>9721534
>shallow
How so? It's a deeper interpretation of religion and ideology than "fairy tales to explain thunder/the falling rate of profit" and related arguments.

[Anonymous No.9722856]

>>9721550
>JQ
>longer answer
Historically the West has stood on two legs: Greek philosophy, Judaeo-Christian religion. In the 19C it grew a third leg: Marxism. And in the 20C it began to realize that it was a horrible mutant and plunged itself into an orgy of mutilation and self-destruction. It is now beginning to repair itself and coming back looking like the Six Million Dollar Man. Nobody's going to fuck with it this time.
>not even humans

A lot of continental theory is written in the 20C because of the Holocaust. The Holocaust is indeed a thing. But at the same time, theory is also about joy, difference, and affirmation: Nietzsche, Deleuze, others. Even Lacan wants you to fall in love. Heidegger wants you not to be just another stooge Das Man. So wat do? Guilt? Or not guilt? Guilt on TV? Or not guilt on TV? Redemption by works? Redemption by grace? Social justice? Not social justice?

The sad thing about today is that these are questions that are all so desperately in need of being talked about that nobody can talk about them for fear of triggering the other side when it's *listening* and dialectic that is required. Colleges melt down under the force of their own good intentions first, or people like Nick Land go mental thinking about the long arm of consumption.

JQ is conspiracy theory with a scapegoat agenda. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, a black box. The whole point of Nick Land's atomization essay is to point out that *money itself skews with human decision making.* Humans can't be trusted with their own desires. Land and Moldbug both think something happened in Europe with the Reformation, which is where modern bourgeois liberalism begins. The Spice Must Flow regardless of what tribe you belong to.

But this is about freedom of choice. And we are free to make up our minds. We can't even say it doesn't matter anymore. Because it actually does. Everything is connected to everything else on Planet Meme. Everything.

See pic rel: even Bane is ultimately not in charge. What is in charge? The anarchic mandate of the League of Shadows? What do they want? Thomas Malthus fuck yeah? Even Miranda Tate only wants to blow up Gotham with a bomb. Terrorism and martyrdom, holy self-scapegoating in the name of the Absolute:
>the final end and ultimate return of the gnostics... is that the Real is identical with them, while they do not exist.

Tragically the ultimate Sufi wisdom is, like a Wittgenstein duckrabbit, indistinguishable from the mandate for Because Reasons terrorism. And the terror visited upon the crowd and the city can be traced back, in the long run, to the point where economic concerns get tangled up with theological ones: modern consciousness itself and its mind/body split.
>fuck you descartes i'll kill you you cunt
>pour quoi monsieur
>b/c math i guess

This is Eric Voegelin's riddle of riddles: How Not to Immanentize the Eschaton. Or, as the Ghostbusters say, Don't Cross The Streams.

>shorter answer
Metaphysics > politics.

[Anonymous No.9722898]

>>9722856

>Tom Hardy
>Official height: 5'9"
>Real height: ~5'7"
>Biggest guy in Gotham

Bate-man confirmed crown prince of turbomanlets.

[Anonymous No.9722933]

>>9722802
>They know neither Greek myths nor Christian ethics nor French moralism nor German metaphysics nor the poetry of all the poets in the world. Before the true life, they are only dwarfs. But they are Goliath technicians – thus giants in every work of destruction, where they ultimately conceal their mission, that they ignore as such. They have a clarity and unusual precision about everything that is mechanical. They are confused, stunted, drowned, by all that is beauty and love. They are titans and cyclops, spirits of darkness, negators and enemies of all creative forces. Those who can reduce millions of years of organic development to nothing by a few meager efforts, without leaving anything behind that could equal the least spring of grass, the least grain of corn, the smaller wing of a mosquito. They are far from poems, wine, dreams, games, hopelessly lost in fallacious doctrines, articulated in the manner of pretentious professors. Nevertheless, they have their mission to accomplish.

Based Junger. Spengler will get at this as well, in the theory of culture and civilization; cultures transcend and finish as technics and expansion. Of course Heidegger knows this as well: the metaphysical completion of philosophy can last much, much longer than its beginning part. Winter Phase &c. But.

Hobbes called it Leviathan. Hardt & Negri called it Empire. Land calls it - well, the signals are mixed there, the wi-fi signals in R'lyeh are spotty. Musk is talking about Colossus.

Colossus has a pretty good ring to it. Titanism. The giant that wakes up. Big Iron Giants.

>>9722898
kek

Plus Bane really just sounds like Evil Jimmy Stewart.
>but mr potter, it's christmas
>*breaks neck*

[Anonymous No.9723002]

>>9721417
Oshii is based as fuck. I need to watch the rest of his oeuvre, particularly his live action stuff.

GITS Innocence is different in tone from the rest of the series. The visuals are absolutely stunning though. It has more of that visuals > plot > character shtick. A running theme with Oshii is the aestheticization of well, *everything*. Which film is incidentally superb at. Because if it's about plot and characters, a novel, or even a play can do it better. It's about pushing the limits of a medium.

Ofc fascism is aestheticized politics. Which is why Jin-roh is a very natural thing to write. There's a certain purity in making whole what finds its best expression in a certain medium. True to form, the politics are a backdrop. There is no political dilemma to be resolved, rather it is out of control of the characters just like the individual is under fascism.

Fascism = fate. The succumbing to the order of things, of fate, is just as much part of the fascist aesthetic as the ultraviolence.

Neato thing: so Kei and Fuse are on a *roof* when they talk about running away. That's what freedom is for them. Not a thing, but negative freedom, freedom from. And of course they're on a roof, so in the very moment they can't just go and run away. So it remains abstract.

Meanwhile duty is real, violence is real, the wolf pack is real. And utterly seductive.

Tragedy is resolved through the catharsis also being a rite of passage. So not only does the law of the wolf pack cause tragedy, it also *resolves* it. The more one is aggrieved by the turn of events, the more the fascist aesthetic becomes seductive because it resolves the tragic. One does not embrace fate because one is not human, but because one is human and finds it unbearable.

>inb4 you missed the point it's about loss of humanity and fascism is bad mkay
>no those stahlhelms are cool kerberos korps fuck yeah embrace your inner (were)wolf

>I want to a Deleuze-trip game, which one?
Different anon from >>9721347, but Yume Nikki comes to mind. I don't know how Deleuzian it is but there's no language, no plot, just pure aesthetics. And it does have "goals" but no one tells you to go for them.

[Anonymous No.9723059]

Ridiculous film, but tremendous wallpaper.

>That is why the instrumental conception of technology conditions every attempt to bring man into the right relation to technology. Everything depends on our manipulating technology in the proper manner as a means. We will, as we say, "get" technology "spiritually in hand." We will master it. The will to mastery becomes all the more urgent the more technology threatens to slip from human control.

War regulated this. War provided a means, and a use, for the metaphysics of production. After the war it all went into consumer capitalism. Now it's a perpetual motion machine running on libido: fear + desire. And, in the end, narcissism.

>>9723002
>fascism is aestheticized politics.
Is this Other Me again? I have a feeling it is.

Pauline Kael wrote an interesting but controversial essay about this, about racism in film. It's an important point but easy to miss. She was saying, if you *actually* want less racism in society, then stop *concealing* it in cinema.

Suppose you have a director who has a powerful fear of black men. The idea is *not* to censor this man, but to allow him - and arguably, even encourage him - to present the full horror of his paranoid fantasies on screen. Allow the viewer to behold the spectacle of Absolute Negritude - *so that we can see how much it is essentially ridiculous.* What is it that is so frightening? The face? The sweat? Like this. Put it on screen, and let the viewer decide. Don't stage it, don't conceal it. If that is what Racism looks like, then there it is. And, as always, whenever anything Existentially Motivating is presented, it's always as a kind of a disenchantment.

>Fascism = fate. The succumbing to the order of things, of fate, is just as much part of the fascist aesthetic as the ultraviolence.
My feeling about this is similar. You get the fascism *out* so that it doesn't live in you. I hope that's how it works. Ofc, the more *accurately* you present it, the more the temptation...

I think this is why Adorno goes for modernism in the end. Jam the signals, provoke self-awareness. But does it work? Or does it just make people long for The Good Old Days?

>Fascism = fate. The succumbing to the order of things, of fate, is just as much part of the fascist aesthetic as the ultraviolence.
Yes. Surrender to the sublime. Aestheticide.

>Meanwhile duty is real, violence is real, the wolf pack is real. And utterly seductive.
Yes.
>for sure this is other me

>Tragedy is resolved through the catharsis also being a rite of passage. So not only does the law of the wolf pack cause tragedy, it also *resolves* it. The more one is aggrieved by the turn of events, the more the fascist aesthetic becomes seductive because it resolves the tragic. One does not embrace fate because one is not human, but because one is human and finds it unbearable.
Yes. So what's the move then? Repeat? Affirm? Knowing that you can't *perfectly* repeat?

(cont'd)

[Anonymous No.9723076]

>>9722856
So reflecting on fascism and fate, the genius of Jin-roh is that it is a reassertion of the tragic (in the original Greek sense of the term) by placing politics in place of fate, now that "fate" has become surpassed by Christian sensibilities of free will and moral choice. What if politics is our way of making sense of metaphysics after it has been occluded by techne? Ironically the most tragic thing is the occlusion of the tragic needed fascism to reveal itself. In the Christian sense, it is the moral dilemma that is the source of the "tragic", but this is not the original sense where something is tragic because of fate.

>Tragically the ultimate Sufi wisdom is, like a Wittgenstein duckrabbit, indistinguishable from the mandate for Because Reasons terrorism
There is something about terrorism that merely sociological or economic categories do not capture. For a long time i've viewed terrorism under a political lens. But there's something missing. It's the right path though. Politics is the technological contemplation of metaphysics.

(Meta?)politics > metaphysics > politics

No one is surprised that the CIA was funding the Dalai Lama. But does this make Tibetan Buddhism any less authentic? When the Dalai Lama speaks, is he cynically putting philosophy in service of power or is it rather that power makes philosophy possible? So China says they have right to determine the reincarnation of the next Dalai Lama, which while prima facie ridiculous, maybe isn't wrong after all. What if they really can decide? What if politics is what makes the metaphysical real? Metapolitics.

>or you could just fulfill these human needs through fiction
>but then the kids will be tempted to follow their examples
>that's why you banish the artists, t. plato

[Anonymous No.9723088]

>>9715946
Heidiger =CUNT!!!

[Anonymous No.9723117]

>>9723002
>>9723059

Here's another thing to think about: jouissance. *Maybe* the idea in art is to find that obscene, excessive, extra part that confirms - grotesquely - that this is *not* spectacle. Spectacle is Spectacle because it conserves and conceals it and this is what we detect whenever we think, Ideology. The repressed fantasy of the auteur aligns with the repressed fantasy of the spectator. They're mutually satisfied/dissatisfied. You come back wanting more. That's the idea.
>ofc you know all this already

We need *auteurs with vision* - an Oshii, a Kurosawa, the list goes on - who are able to articulate the kind of shit that not only the spectator cannot see, but does not *wish to see* and is almost certainly *afraid of seeing.* This is what, back when, tragedy was supposed to do. But seeing things in the theatre is different than seeing them on screen.

I used to have long arguments with my Derrida guy about this. He was into theatre, I was into cinema. I was saying, Special Effects. He was saying, Theatre is Different. I'm still hung up on movies.

And now we've got video games to talk about. Where the lines get real blurry. Where your spectator is also your director (you control the camera) and your star (the plot is there for you, Narcissus). And tacitly the producer (10/10 would devour stars again).

>inb4 you missed the point it's about loss of humanity and fascism is bad mkay
>no those stahlhelms are cool kerberos korps fuck yeah embrace your inner (were)wolf
That's the thing. This is 149% the thing. That which we repress, individually or collectively, returns. That is Nietzsche and that is Freud and JBP and all the rest. What is now returning is every sense of the world the *triumph of abstract happiness over concrete happiness in the age of the Spectacle.* Debord knew. Baudrillard knew. Embrace the werewolf or enjoy paying $100/hr to your therapist twice a week for the next twenty years. Fall in love, get schizo, do whatever you have to do. Girard is right: we are enslaved to other men's desires. That is, arguably, better than being enslaved by your own. Because the Other is at least *unpredictable* and may *do something you don't expect.* Which means no infinite and infinitely boring loops of your own narcissistic process, driving you slowly into the ground as you pace back and forth between meme desire A and meme desire B.

This *should* be a golden age of cinema. Tragedy is always welcome. So much good stuff going on in anime. But you have to put the scary wolves on screen. Otherwise it's not even pornography. It's just Spectacle. It's Bloom.

I'm >>9721347 too. I'll check that one out.

>What if politics is our way of making sense of metaphysics after it has been occluded by techne?
Aestheticide. This is not to say I disagree. Because...what if? What if you're right?

>Ironically the most tragic thing is the occlusion of the tragic needed fascism to reveal itself.
Yes. Also, holy fucking shitballs.

(cont'd)

[Anonymous No.9723160]

>>9723059
>Suppose you have a director who has a powerful fear of black men. The idea is *not* to censor this man, but to allow him - and arguably, even encourage him - to present the full horror of his paranoid fantasies on screen
It's called Blacked. Lowbrow porn is a reflection of the collective unconscious. The space where taboos can be explored because the surface function of such "art" is for base pleasure. But meaning slips in through the cracks. Now you could argue that it discloses itself within a repressed space instead of within public discourse, but "public discourse" is inevitably political. So what you need is a suppression of the political. But the cat's out of the bag, and maybe politics can be nudged along so that it reveals more than it serves the purposes of power.

But, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, it must be *pure politics*. Art masquerading as politics gives me this uneasiness. Because it strikes me as cynical. And ofc "activist art" inevitably is complicit with the media. It must grab attention. The ends justify it. It's a kind of violence done to art, when you use art as a weapon. There's also an unawareness in activist art because the politics they espouse are predictable. The politics are prior to activist art, it's almost never the case that this kind of art generates a new kind of politics. Maybe i'm wrong, if you could mention any counterexamples that would be great.

But unpredictable primordial pure politics absent the nostalgic aesthetic of fascism. What would it be like?

[Anonymous No.9723190]

>>9723076
Sorry, used the wrong pic there. Meant to ask: map > territory or territory > map? Anyways.

>In the Christian sense, it is the moral dilemma that is the source of the "tragic", but this is not the original sense where something is tragic because of fate.
Christianity and tragedy. This was the road that led me to Girard: that tragedy completes myth in the same way religion completes tragedy. That is by no means an airtight argument. I'm based at Camp Girard to look into these questions for now. But there are other ones. The rabbit holes are deep
>and full of rabbits?
>yes. vampire rabbits
>doesn't sound too spooky
>they eat your nuts tho

>There is something about terrorism that merely sociological or economic categories do not capture. For a long time i've viewed terrorism under a political lens. But there's something missing. It's the right path though. Politics is the technological contemplation of metaphysics.
...maybe. Possibly. But you can see where this goes. Cry Havoc. It's better when you have the occasional anarch like Junger who can refuse the will of the sovereign, yes? Or the Russian guy who defies the orders of his commanders urging the submarine towards Cuba? The disruptive hero, the anarch, the rebel...if all of this falls under your definition of politics, that's fine. In the end we're talking about History. That Reality should be Real I'm fine with.

>Politics is the technological contemplation of metaphysics.
Of course, you said this. You didn't say it was all about *action* but *contemplation.* So there you go.

>(Meta?)politics > metaphysics > politics
Probably. But I need to be convinced by my metapoliticians that they've done their homework. If it's a gun to my head I get to laugh.
>as they shoot me
>still i laughed tho
>they will probably shoot you again girardfag
>casino_royale_rope_torture_scene.jpeg

>When the Dalai Lama speaks, is he cynically putting philosophy in service of power or is it rather that power makes philosophy possible? So China says they have right to determine the reincarnation of the next Dalai Lama, which while prima facie ridiculous, maybe isn't wrong after all. What if they really can decide? What if politics is what makes the metaphysical real? Metapolitics.
I can accept this.

>No one is surprised that the CIA was funding the Dalai Lama. But does this make Tibetan Buddhism any less authentic?
No, but did it ever matter to the Buddhists in the first place? That's the attraction of Buddhism, isn't it?

>>9723160
>But meaning slips in through the cracks.
That's it. Whether it's an Oedipal Freudian slip or Azathoth.
>starting to realize why i love wabi-sabi aesthetics so much, whether the universe is unfolding from nothing, or to nothing, or from nothing to nothing and we are there somewhere in the middle

(cont'd)
(also, have to go out for a bit but will return later.)
(after one more)

[Anonymous No.9723238]

>>9723160
>So what you need is a suppression of the political. But the cat's out of the bag, and maybe politics can be nudged along so that it reveals more than it serves the purposes of power.
Could be. To my mind Deleuze has the idea here, doesn't he? The thing either *is* your inner despot speaking or it isn't. I guess it depends on the art and the artist and the infinite spaces therein. I don't know about art nudging politics. The final test for me is whether Art succeeds at becoming something more than pornography or propaganda.

>Art masquerading as politics gives me this uneasiness. Because it strikes me as cynical. And ofc "activist art" inevitably is complicit with the media. It must grab attention.
True.

>It's a kind of violence done to art, when you use art as a weapon. There's also an unawareness in activist art because the politics they espouse are predictable. The politics are prior to activist art, it's almost never the case that this kind of art generates a new kind of politics.
This is why I metaphysics > politics. I like art as that which gets beyond politics. Girard's novelistic sensibility. Something there about desires overcome and understood and transmitted to the human sciences. Not the same as mass consumption. Something much bigger.

>he politics are prior to activist art, it's almost never the case that this kind of art generates a new kind of politics. Maybe i'm wrong, if you could mention any counterexamples that would be great.
I mean I can't mention one in specific, but I'll go to one of my go-to favourites. What is the correct political reading of pic related? It doesn't have one. It's a piece of literature. You'll never get, to my mind, to the bottom of it. It is what it is. It passes all tests.

Anyways, Best Anon, I have to go out for a bit. Will check back on this later. Thanks as always for the conversation. Looking forward to picking this up again soon.

[Anonymous No.9723369]

>>9723117
>He was into theatre, I was into cinema. I was saying, Special Effects. He was saying, Theatre is Different. I'm still hung up on movies.
What's the significance of special effects?

Also I thought: theatre = man minus/over world, film = man in world or world over man or world minus man.

>Where your spectator is also your director (you control the camera) and your star (the plot is there for you, Narcissus). And tacitly the producer (10/10 would devour stars again).
You sink into the abyss like Narcissus I guess. Vidya addiction is a kind of addiction to an idealized self. MMORPGs was where the big bucks are. Or still are? I'm not sure. Mobile games seem to be on the upswing.

>screen goes black and you peer into your haggard self once more.jpg

>>9723190
>Sorry, used the wrong pic there
Embrace the memetic slip. Unleash your inner Mauser.

>It's better when you have the occasional anarch like Junger who can refuse the will of the sovereign, yes? Or the Russian guy who defies the orders of his commanders urging the submarine towards Cuba? The disruptive hero, the anarch, the rebel...if all of this falls under your definition of politics, that's fine.
Junger was in his latter years apolitical. It's not like anyone was forcing him to repudiate his past. He can embrace it, just be apolitical. Which is letting the sovereign do his will.

And the Russian commanders were delegated power. The sovereign left the decision up to them, it's not like they repudiated the will of the sovereign.

Politics is always top down for me.

>>9723238
>I don't know about art nudging politics. The final test for me is whether Art succeeds at becoming something more than pornography or propaganda.
What about Alexander Nevsky? In 1938 it was politically relevant (Russian prince defending from the Teutons) yet acquired greater political (propagandic?) significance after Germany invaded. The film would not have been as iconic had Germany not invaded. The political situation enhanced the stature of the film. And to do that art must be prescient.

>What is the correct political reading of pic related? It doesn't have one. It's a piece of literature.
I'm not familiar with it. But ronin. Masterless samurai. And hired by peasants! There is stuff about the inverting of hierarchy there. I guess it doesn't have to have a political message (or purpose), but the portrayal of politics is something ever present.

>Anyways, Best Anon, I have to go out for a bit. Will check back on this later. Thanks as always for the conversation. Looking forward to picking this up again soon.
Seeya and don't let the inner werewolves bite.

[Anonymous No.9723398]

>>9723369
I should add:
>Russian submarine commander
>implying you can order him around

A submarine commander is basically sovereign over his realm. The ship is a microcosm of the state...unless it's the current year and you have GPS and satellites and stuff. But subs tho.

So all this guy needed to do was get rid of the political commissar to be free to do as he pleases. And of course there's a political purpose behind the film itself...whether conscious or not. Made in 1990. When did the Soviet Union collapse again? The charismatic Soviet defector is portrayed as a *hero*. It's a good film tho, even though it's a Cold War ideological weapon itself. Cinema preceding life. The political enhances, not detracts from it.

[Anonymous No.9723406]

>>9720398
>Plastikman
You've given me a great reason to check him out. I already love F.U.S.E.

[Anonymous No.9723535]

>>9722802
>“They know neither Greek myths nor Christian ethics nor French moralism nor German metaphusics nor the poetry of all the poets in the world. Before the true life, they are only dwarfs
Scarily accurate. Those tools of meaning, knowledge, and cultural understanding have been whittled away on one side by those who deny their importance (either because it's "occidental-focused" or old and "unnecessary) and on the other by the increasingly trivialization and often deconstruction of those important ideals and myths in media and fiction. Utterly disgusting.

[Anonymous No.9723556]

how the fuck do I become as smart as you guys
this threads sounds amazing, but I don't understand half of what I am reading

[Anonymous No.9723565]

Is this a stealth Accelerationism thread? We haven't had any Nick Land discussion on lit in a week or so.

[Anonymous No.9723631]

>>9723556
I hardly understand what is happening myself. Other Me has all the chops. Someone has to be sounding board I guess.

>>9723565
It's kind of like a Land thread isn't it?

Accelerationst art tho. What would it be like?

Hardmode: something other than vaporwave

[Anonymous No.9723657]

>>9716333
>religious and moral principles themselves have been coopted as mere tools rendering an unconcealing of them more difficult
>unconcealing
children understand morals and ethics, people use em every day without thinking about them.
It's the way powerful people justify being shitbags that is the problem, cranks like Ayn Rand are boosted along with any other "thinker" that delineates why it's okay to be a douche.

[girardfag No.9723706]

>>9723631
>tfw Other Me begins to talk about me as Other Me

Fine, I'll bite the bullet.
>but which of us is now the real girardfag?
>it does not matter
>his_name_was_robert_paulson.jpeg

>I'm not familiar with [Seven Samurai].
It's a pretty great film. Tastes vary as always but it's a perennial fave.

>>9723369
>What's the significance of special effects?
I liked them. Was blown away by Spectacle then and now. But I in the end I think Derrida guy was right. A live theatrical performance is unique, human, and so on. More Heideggerian, in other words. Not always.

>Also I thought: theatre = man minus/over world, film = man in world or world over man or world minus man.
Perfect. Man *minus* world. Subtraction. *Minor* literature. One thing Badiou and Deleuze actually agree on. Wilber says, Transcend and Include. It's California Buddhism. Makes sense. Badiou would say, I think, Subtract and Exclude. Made sense to me.

>screen goes black and you peer into your haggard self once more.jpg
There it is. Black mirrors.

>Politics is always top down for me.
You're convincing me. I skew anarch > sovereign but it's probably ressentiment. I have Issues with this. They go back to religion. Probably forward to it. I'm very much unresolved on a few key issues yet. Thus the shitposting. Thus the mimetics.

Politics is always top down? I'll mull this one. It makes sense.

>Nevsky/The film would not have been as iconic had Germany not invaded. The political situation enhanced the stature of the film. And to do that art must be prescient.
This is one of the amazing things about artists. Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor predicts Stalin. Nietzsche's Ubermensch predicts Hitler. Is it too much to say that one of the unusual definitions of great art is that it is prescient? Either it presents a more accurate view of the past, or a more accurate view of the future? Ideology is always just More of the Same. It reconfirms the same, reifies it. So it sucks. But great art opens up weird possibilities, strange thoughts. It's news that stays news. That's why Great Literature matters. Even more than we think. Maybe more than we are capable of thinking. Art frees the wolves. And the Judge Holdens. And the Ahabs. So that we don't have to reinvent the wheel.
>or we can invent even more terrifying ones
>more terrifying wheels?

>>9723398
>A submarine commander is basically sovereign over his realm. The ship is a microcosm of the state...
This makes sense too b/c so much of the great literature of the West is nautical fiction. The Odyssey. Moby-Dick. The Seafarer. Heart of Darkness. Men and ships. It's a good look.

>The political enhances, not detracts from it.
Now I get it. You're right about this. I get it now. And it's true.

>>9723565
>Is this a stealth Accelerationism thread?
It was originally about Heidegger but I invariably wind up dragging NL into everything these days. But it's not like Heidegger wasn't alert to what was going on.

(cont'd)

[Anonymous No.9723708]

>>9718703
>Fascism is the equivalent of the jealous man whose wife cheats on him.
Except that commies are resentful people who didn't have the balls to accept that the proletariat, their waifu, was cheating on them with fascists. Then they wrote about how they wouldn't be cucks if cabitalism didn't corrupt the purity of their waifu.

[girardfag No.9723752]

>>9723631
>>9723706

>I hardly understand what is happening myself. Other Me has all the chops. Someone has to be sounding board I guess.
You've got Chops Aplenty my man.
>the chops, they are everywhere
And on Planet Meme no one of us is at the centre of the sounding board. It's a big squishy universe. The more the merrier.

>accelerationist art
Not long before we can start drawing up a canon of books, films, music, games et al for this.

-Cinema: Akira, GITS, Terminator 1/2, Alien
-Books: This will take a while. Probably something like a nice Megaupload would be good. That would be a kind and friendly thing to do for some karma points. The Land reader was a wicked move.
-Music: where's that Land jungle mix?
>where, for that matter, is just a cool Acceleration blog where anons can hang out? Post shit, meme at each other & so on
>hmm
>also hmm

>Hardmode: something other than vapourware
welp. No ideas here but how about some electronica while we think about it? Can't beat that logo either...

Renegade Soundwave (Leftfield Remix):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLjQRgBuN9M

>>9723657
>Rand
Ayn Rand's face would have melted off like Toht in Raiders of the Lost Ark if she could have seen what was really going on under the hood of Capital.

>>9723556
Start with the Greeks...
>or fuck it just plunge into Nietzsche like a retard. b/c honestly it all connects in the end on planet meme

[Anonymous No.9723754]

>>9723708
Well I mean you can kind of cut to the chase by saying that fascism and communism are both fundamentally Modern. Fascism is right-wing Modernity, communism is left-wing Modernity, but it all still stems from Luther, Machiavelli, and Galileo, with Darwin coming on later to provide an assist. As such, if you really drill down, communism and fascism have a lot of the same fundamental flaws. All men become their fathers.

[Anonymous No.9723784]

>>9718089
What would be the explanation for that?

[Anonymous No.9723785]

>>9723708

I know we're in Cloud City, but this is really glossing the social, intellectual, and political complexity/turmoil of the Weimar Republic.

Not untrue, even so.

[Anonymous No.9723788]

>>9723784

Immigration and rapid urbanization.

[girardfag No.9723797]

>>9723752

This was a happy accident, but more for the Acceleration Megamix, if & when.

>she got a TV show
>she got a shopping mall
>she got a miracle she doesn't want at all
>she got a monument at a great expense
>she got a head of state and a president
>she got destiny
>she got supremacy
>she got everything from A to Z
>she got it all down tight
>she got nothing wrong
>she got the whole wide world singing baby's song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMzCpy0fXc

[Anonymous No.9723830]

>>9723788
Why would urbanization lead to decline in IQ (if we assume IQ is a direct correlation to intelligence)? It seems to me that urban living lends itself to greater intelligence than rural.

[Anonymous No.9723835]

>>9719222

the dyed hair thing is another social archetype probably - that certain physical features ascribe certain physical abilities all adds to the same goal or producing an output
Generally what's being taught to children is that individuality is cool on appearance but should contribute to the overall betterment of the society at large
Kind of how hip white San Franciscans give their money to Poc or female owned businesses
Or how you might be inclined to buy the red packaged Oreos over the grey

[Anonymous No.9723844]

>>9723002
>Tragedy is resolved through the catharsis also being a rite of passage. So not only does the law of the wolf pack cause tragedy, it also *resolves* it. The more one is aggrieved by the turn of events, the more the fascist aesthetic becomes seductive because it resolves the tragic. One does not embrace fate because one is not human, but because one is human and finds it unbearable.
Here's an interesting article on how Judaism and Greek culture differ on dealing with tragedy:
http://www.atimes.com/why-greeks-hate-jews-or-talmud-and-tragedy/

[girardfag No.9723854]

More for the megamix. Fun to listen to while you spend another evening dwelling on acceleration.

Jark Prongo: Rocket Base
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v44Zlsi1sFI

>the good news is that the game is rigged

[Anonymous No.9723866]

>>9723657
>There is also a certain innocence about Moore; he is, e.g., completely unvain. As to it’s being to his ‘credit’ to be childlike, — I can’t understand that; unless it’s also to a child’s credit. For you aren’t talking of the innocence a man has fought for, but of an innocence which comes from a natural absence of a temptation

Children are innocent, and this can manifest itself in *innocence* but also the innocence of cruelty.

>>9723706
>It's a pretty great film. Tastes vary as always but it's a perennial fave.
Gonna check it out then.

>A live theatrical performance is unique, human, and so on. More Heideggerian, in other words.
Maybe they're more Heideggerian because the characters are *in* our world once the fictional world is subtracted. Or abstracted.

>You're convincing me. I skew anarch > sovereign but it's probably ressentiment.
Making people believe they are individually free is the modern way of how power preempts ressentiment while retaining its grip. The sovereign diffuses itself among the many and hides. Leaderless resistance is a fucking meme, and any potential coups are preempted because people distrust authority while at the same time being subject to it.

I'm sure there are Personal Reasons why I find such a concept of sovereignty attractive. Internal > external freedom definitely, for me. Modern politics acts on the brainstem. And of course there's the fascination with fascist aesthetics.

>or we can invent even more terrifying ones
>more terrifying wheels?
Art frees us to invent the tank treads.

The next level is mecha ofc. Bipedal machines of death. Rather than humanizing the machine it takes man's tendency for domination and ascribes it to the machine to make a weapon that can dominate all other machines.

>>9723752
>You've got Chops Aplenty my man.
Good. Let the sounding board be extra bouncy.

>-Music: where's that Land jungle mix?
Most importantly, what *is* that Land jungle mix? For Reasons it is important to know what was going on when he was channeling the deep ones.

>>9723835
Definitely. External individuality, but internal conformance.

>>9723844
Gonna take a look.

[Anonymous No.9723869]

>>9723631
capital also happens to be infinitely banal. that's what Land doesn't get. The future is a white apple(tm) store gas chamber.

[Anonymous No.9723879]

>>9719909
>>9720232
Reading The Adventurous Heart by Junger at the moment. I've read On Marble Cliffs, Storm of Steel, a couple others. Adventurous Heart is rife with incredible insight. It is the bitterest dirge for the drying up of the world imaginable.

[Anonymous No.9723931]

Delusional nazi old man
>muh shoes

[Anonymous No.9723942]

>>9723844
>>9723866
>Very interesting article, but, given the argument you are making, is it really proper to refer to Bruce Jenner in the feminine?
Kek

The One God definitely kills tragedy. If you really believe and your faith is airtight. Modern Greece is predominantly Christian *and* nostalgic for Greek tragedy. And so is the West. Tragedy only makes sense when one despairs from being separated from God. There's a gaping black hole in the middle of the fabric there. How did Europe ever come to have a dominant religion while simultaneously being *bad* at? Something had to give.

[Anonymous No.9723987]

>>9721347
As far as I'm concerned, The Witness is the only game that could be considered art in itself and not just a diversion that also has artistic elements in it. If you haven't heard Jon Blow talk about games, look up some of his talks right now: he's one of the few people out there theorizing games in the same auteur-like capacity that icycalm exhibits.

If I had to reduce The Witness to a single philosopher it would be later Wittgenstein with the concept of language games. Puzzle boards encompass the entirety of the player's interactions with the world without there ever being an external explanation for how or why these puzzles should be solved, so what effectively occurs is that the player comes to understand the game environment *through* the tracing of lines through mazes, just as Wittgenstein shows in PI that our understanding of the world is formed by language games whose rules can never explicitly be given. The entire game becomes a maze dictated by implicit rules (mazes being themselves a system of language), which IMO represents a functional parallel to being trapped inside yet relying on language to interpret the world. Furthermore, scattered throughout the game are audiologs with quotes from different thinkers across disciplines that all touch on various methods to understand the world and, by extension, to transcend it.

I cannot recommend this game enough, as I feel that it is truly a breakthrough in the medium, where we finally have a work whose every aspect in some way corresponds to illustrating a "deeper truth" (wish I could put it in less of a cliched way but you get the deal.) Even the pause menu has significance. Yet the game is very understated and subtle--I may be bashing you over the head with it right now, but it's a quiet and thoughtful experience that rewards developing a relationship with it. Jon Blow has unlocked an aspect of gaming's medium specificity, namely -interaction-, and created a work that takes this interactivity to heights impossible anywhere else.

[Anonymous No.9723990]

>>9723830
We had this talk at the start at a earlier land thread based on this article here, http://jacobitemag.com/2017/06/20/modernitys-fertility-problem/

Essentially the problem with cities is that while lots of high IQ people flock to them for valid reasons (jobs,culture, ect...), cities apply certain costs that make children expensive such as rent, childcare, and other extra costs that cities push on their residences that make life costly. This means that it is expensive for high IQ people to have children, due to all the costs that having a child requires.

Land causes this an IQ shredder but really the city issue he is talking about is just a more extrme example of the issue that people in 1st world countries have fewer children over all. I suspect urban living increases the reasons why one would not have a child due to additional costs being added.

Urban living then causes a fall in intelligence not to the individual, but in general because fewer high IQ people are able to afford to have children.

TLDR, SUBSIDE CHILDCARE if you want 1st world children.

[girardfag No.9723994]

>>9723866
>Art frees us to invent the tank treads.
This must be what it feels like to be an NBA player when one of your teammates dunks the shit out of the ball and everyone on the bench goes bananas. Shit that makes you just grit your teeth. Line of the night.

>Most importantly, what *is* that Land jungle mix? For Reasons it is important to know what was going on when he was channeling the deep ones.
Here's the link for any anons curious. It doesn't seem to be working for me but it could just be on my end.
https://soundcloud.com/nicklandrhizome/jungle-mix

>The next level is mecha ofc. Bipedal machines of death. Rather than humanizing the machine it takes man's tendency for domination and ascribes it to the machine to make a weapon that can dominate all other machines.
Yup. And on it goes. Weapons against weapons, bellum omnium contra omnes, all the way to the horizon. Here I think I start staring into the horizon and drooling. That's the view of Planet Schizophrenic Vampire Meme from Girard Station. Planet War.
>It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.

See Ernst? See? We're fucked.
>A free man gives the weapons their meaning. - Junger
Sigh.

>>9723879
>Adventurous Heart is rife with incredible insight. It is the bitterest dirge for the drying up of the world imaginable.
You might post something from that anon. An excerpt or something. Getting our hearts ripped out is part of the charm.

>>9723869
>The future is a white apple(tm) store gas chamber.
What a thread this turned out to be, holy hannah.

More music.
Carpenter Brut: Looking for Tracy Tzu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe1wA1hAdd0

How long do we have to wait for The Matrix 2.0? How soon can this be rebooted/remade/redone with more Baudrillard references and more infinitely cynical terrorists blackpilling an accelerationist universe? Where's the Bizarro Matrix where Bizarro Agent Smith wants to get Out and gets torn to pieces in a hail of gunfire?
>or something

If I'm going to have to drag myself through a meme existence I demand better Spectacle to come home to.
>and can i get that in anime form thx bizarro oshii

[Anonymous No.9724077]

>>9723987
Interesting! Def on my list.

>>9723994
>https://soundcloud.com/nicklandrhizome/jungle-mix
Works fine for me.

>planet war
>or war planet?
>weaponized ecology go go

[Anonymous No.9724263]

>>9723994
>Where's the Bizarro Matrix where Bizarro Agent Smith wants to get Out and gets torn to pieces in a hail of gunfire?
Holy shit.

[girardfag No.9724289]

>>9724263
Right?

It's been done before - what hasn't - but I'm down for another round, just to really drill the point home.

[Anonymous No.9724297]

>>9716414
Wtf I love modernism now??

[Anonymous No.9724377]

>>9724289
Well Blade Runner 2049 is A Thing.

Did you watch live action GITS?

[Anonymous No.9724431]

This thread convinced me to finally check out the Dark Enlightenment/Nick Land/Moldbug stuff and I feel better for it already.

[Sage No.9724439]

>>9724431

Those guys are total homos. Go straight for the source materia, then onto Islamic mysticism for bona face infidelity.

[Anonymous No.9724455]

>>9724439
>Those guys are total homos. Go straight for the source materia
I'm nowhere near ready to tackle a lot of the people mentioned in the thread yet, but this seems like a good starting place.

[Anonymous No.9724469]

>>9724455
read some lothrop stoddard he goes hard af

[girardfag No.9724517]

>>9723987
That's fucking brilliant, anon. Exactly what I was looking for. When I get around to upgrading my PC I think I'm going to pick this up.

>>9724377
>live action GITS
I did see this (on Land's recommendation, good god) and I was really disappointed. You know what I will remember? That that was easily the cleanest cyberpunk dystopia ever. You could have eaten off those streets. Something seems wrong about that.

Tarantino could have done that one but he might have made it too hip and clever. Nolan obv would have been fine. Not a bad film, I guess, but kind of pointless. Not when the original is so good.

My Body Is Ready I Guess for next Blade Runner, but reboots are hard to pull off. Pic rel for example. The original is great and this was weak.

The Matrix really was the must-see film. It's too bad they rushed those second two and it was Neo mega-kicking 400 Agent Smiths by the end. The really interesting film that deals with this stuff may have to drop the Chosen One monomyth. There's certainly enough material to work with.

More theme music.

Massive Attack: Splitting the Atom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH9HA9AI_RI

Tricky: Excess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ivr41yxGs
>doubtful that land would listen to tricky
>oh whatever this is all for the inevitable big stupid movie version where all of his ideas get distilled down into Spectacle anyways who cares

>>9724431
sweet
>feel better
"enjoy"

[Anonymous No.9724539]

>>9724517
>>feel better
>"enjoy"
By "feel better" I meant more along the lines of "not so alone in these beliefs". Of course, the knowledge being revealed, among other things, is truly horrific.

[Anonymous No.9724562]

>>9723631
>Accelerationst art tho. What would it be like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1yrH4qS2RA

>not even trying to shill

[Anonymous No.9724575]

>>9723631
Oneohtrix Point Never, Autechre, the list goes on...

[girardfag No.9724604]

>>9724539
>By "feel better" I meant more along the lines of "not so alone in these beliefs".
Same here.

>Of course, the knowledge being revealed, among other things, is truly horrific.
Yep. Girard + Land is a weird combination and it's taken me a fair bit of reading to get to this point, but now I can't unsee it. It really is the goddamn Matrix. Planet Meme + Meme Capitalism. I used to be paranoid that this was the way that things might be, and now I'm basically certain that they are this way. It just all makes too much sense. Cybernetic research in WW2 feeds directly into postwar economics and the cybernetic revolution takes place through *media* without anybody even noticing. Because they were partying their asses off from the 50s to the 70s. By which point the consumer society had proven that it could deliver the goods. Then the Soviet Union collapses and it's all US hyperpower from there.

Right now we live in Feels > Reals, but maybe all this trends towards the Virtuals, where we just accept that we are all a part of Mega-Mind and always have been. The neoliberal Feels are just good for capitalism in every way. Postmodernity has never been more dead. The 2016 election sealed it.
>and produced the most meme potus ever to go with it

So wat do now? Who the fuck knows.

[Anonymous No.9724631]

>>9724517
I think you want Blade Runner from the point of view of Roy Batty. Or is it Tyrell? Who is more (in)human after all?

>but the final redpill is Blade Runner from the point of view of the owl
>and the dove
>and the origami unicorn

>That that was easily the cleanest cyberpunk dystopia ever.
I was also bothered by the mimicking of scenes in the anime. It veers into uncanny valley territory. There's form but no ghost. When anime is more real than real life.

>>9724604
>So wat do now? Who the fuck knows.
China. They better ramp up their cultural production before that bubble bursts. Or will it?

That's the trillion yuan question. Bubbles are a facet of of economics-as-atomized-swarm. But state capitalism? Neo-Taoist Confucianism? I mean surely, maintaining an "economy" is easier than maintaining the empire for thousands of years right?

[Anonymous No.9724647]

>>9724562
>>9724575
I'm into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjNCUKe3OaE atm.

I think my music tastes betray too much nostalgia. Not gonna make it to level 2 lads.

[Anonymous No.9724678]

Anyone here heard of nobodyTM?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKv1EoLqT8Y
Not sure if it's accelerationist, per se. It's perhaps the most vicious indictment of modernity I've ever seen.

[Anonymous No.9724692]

>So wat do now? Who the fuck knows.
werewolf

[girardfag No.9724702]

>>9724631
>I think you want Blade Runner from the point of view of Roy Batty.
Something like that, yeah. This sounds pretty neat. The hard part is overly sentimentalizing characters. In the end, I think Charles Murray's dictum on what makes art great stands: "A human being did that!"

I liked that and it made sense. Let's see the Ubermensch at work on screen, doing the impossible. I am a big fan of the Mission:Impossible films for this reason. They're campy, and they don't have the mythos of Bond or Batman, but there's something fun about seeing Ethan Hunt do impossible things. The machine-spirits of Capital are the end boss, so...let's see it, I guess. I mean there are obviously super-conscientious films like Wall-E or whatever but grimdark transhuman cyberpunk ninjas fuck yeah, right?

>but the final redpill is Blade Runner from the point of view of the owl
>and the dove
>and the origami unicorn
This is true.

>I was also bothered by the mimicking of scenes in the anime. It veers into uncanny valley territory. There's form but no ghost. When anime is more real than real life.
Yeah, this too.

>Bubbles are a facet of of economics-as-atomized-swarm. But state capitalism? Neo-Taoist Confucianism?
Confucianism has, I think, always had a component of Taoism in it. And it blends well with capital. Pic rel even got the Taleb endorsement. It's good. It will make you admire the Tao and the wonder-working powers of finance. I will never be one of these guys, so I'm sort of trying to overcome the tendency to slide into Marxist pessimism that does nothing. But it's an interesting read ofc.

>I mean surely, maintaining an "economy" is easier than maintaining the empire for thousands of years right?
We'll find out. Land was tweeting about this, high-tech exports being on the rise over there. Seems like a sort of fragility race sometimes, everybody perhaps trying to project more confidence/power than they actually have, hoping nobody calls anyone else's bluff. Who knows tho.

I just think about cybernetics all the time now, the need to roboticize, keep up with the Joneses. I prefer to think of it as monasticizing. But sometimes it's much the same thing. The regulation of days by an unseen force.

Did Friedman have any actual understanding of what the phrase 'Invisible Hand' actually implied? Were those libertarians actually thinking of the world in this way? If it was and they were trying to normalize it they're even more fucking strange than I thought. Is this what it feels like to be pre-redpill Stefan Molyneux? It's weird as fuck.

One more tune, not remotely Accelerationist but more drugs/psychedelics/Burroughs/&c. Check this thread tomorrow. Cheers all.

Bomb the Bass: Bug Powder Dust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trbvx1U6Ry8

[Anonymous No.9724705]

>>9724647
what's nostalgia anyways? why is it that the first examples of a thing are always stranger and more beautiful than the later more, polished ones?

Consumer civilisation is fixated on reviving the 1980s. every attempt results in the further dilution of an already elusive aura. History is a dream from which we have yet to wake up. What did the 1980s dream about

Childhood as a series of consumer experiences. Toy unpacking videos on youtube are a hit with 'economically troubled' parents who can't afford the latest novelties.

Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a Capital, or whether I am now Capital, dreaming I am a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7It9jaaBQ

[Anonymous No.9724710]

Jon Rafman

https://vimeo.com/75534042

[Anonymous No.9724723]

>>9724678
chris chan is in there lol

[Anonymous No.9724735]

>>9724702
>I'm sort of trying to overcome the tendency to slide into Marxist pessimism that does nothing.

why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI3x8WIxus

[Anonymous No.9724760]

>>9724702
>the Ubermensch cyborg
Visually the "overcoming oneself" has its analogue in one's body not being able to keep up with one's will. Motoko Kusanagi ripping off her arms when grappling with the spider tank. There's tragic elements to that too. But also triumph.

>Dao of Capital
>it actually exists
Color me unsurprised. Surprised it was only published in 2013. Antifragile is some good stuff tho. Heuristics > hermeneutics.

>Confucianism has, I think, always had a component of Taoism in it.

Working (or maybe slogging) my way through Ames atm:

>The failure to distinguish clearly between ritual action (li) and yi, and the consequent failure to appreciate fully the concept of person as an original source of meaningful action, is not only characteristic of current conservative readings of Confucius but dates back at least as far as the earliest Taoists who condemned Confucianism for its demand that the human being conform to an imposed and unnatural order. It is only by clarifying the distinction between ritual action (li) and yi and recognizing the essential function of yi in Confucius' philosophical reflections that we can appreciate the extent to which misinterpretation has detracted from it.

>He does not search for principles that overarch the various rule-regulated contexts in human society. Instead he asks that one should remain open to the experience of authoritative humanity (jen*); one must be sensitive to the manner in which such humaneness depends upon actualizing the self-in-the-moment at the intersection of action and circumstance, the harmony of which depends upon and is an expression of yi. Performing ritual actions with yi leads to this harmony, and in so doing, permits the expression of authoritative humanity through ritual action (li).

>The apparent strangeness of the language necessary for a more faithful characterization of yi is also due to the fact that, for Confucius, 'rightness' has a distinctly aesthetic connotation. Perhaps the readiest illustration of the ethically normative force associated with yi is to be found in the 'urge to create' experienced by the poet or painter. The artist does not have a created product in mind, nor is he usually at his creative best when acting in accordance with a plan. What has normative force for the artist is precisely that which achieves articulated presence at the culmination of aesthetic achievement. Only then is the meaning of the creation fully disclosed. This disclosure is felt as a sense of the rightness of the completed creation.

>If it was and they were trying to normalize it they're even more fucking strange than I thought.
Economics does have an element of self-fulfilling prophecy to it. I am but a mere grasshopper with regards to it but their assumptions are just weird. But it works. Why? Maybe because everyone has the same assumptions. There's an analogy here with ethics somewhere.

>>9724710
>NEETcore.jpg

[Anonymous No.9725332]

>>9715946
source?

[Anonymous No.9725341]

>>9723160
is pic related the guy who also nailed his balls to the ground on the Red Square?

[Anonymous No.9725350]

>>9723994
hi nick.

[girardfag No.9725636]

>>9724760
>kusanagi
We can talk days about this scene. Implosion and tragedy. And, you're right, triumph - in a sense which is neither really religious or tragic, but transcendentally masochistic. Mishima would have liked it, I think. It's the defining scene of that film, imho. Much What Did He Mean By This.

>Antifragile is some good stuff tho.
Mos def.

>Heuristics > hermeneutics.
I like being lazy. But of course you're right. Struggling to reverse the polarity of exactly that arrow is everything you need to know about me.

>There's an analogy here with ethics somewhere.
It's up to every individual, perhaps, to order and prioritize the Good, the Beautiful, and the True (or, perhaps, detect how these arrangements are in some sense always-already in effect for them). And every individual belongs to some culture, and is located somewhere in space and in time, devotes X amount of time to thinking about this stuff. But in the end we - you and I, whoever - are presented with this phenomenon of art, the aesthetic, the sublime, which has a trace, an argument for something. A more honest critic isn't necessarily obliged to deconstruct it, as well you know. This is why I like Warshow on this: he knows that there is a reason why he is there in the theatre, and he does not forget it. But it's all to say, hermeneutics fuck yeah.

W/r/t China Fingarette's essay on this is superb.

>In general, what Confucius brings out in connection with the workings of ceremony is not only its distinctively human character, its linguistic and magical character, but also its moral and religious character. Here, finally, we must recall and place at the focus of our analysis the fact that for Confucius it is the imagery of Holy Ceremony that unifies and infuses all these dimensions of human existence. Perhaps a modern Westerner would be tempted to speak of the "intelligent practice of learned conventions and language." This has a fashionably value-free, "scientific" ring...

>The image of Holy Rite as a metaphor of human existence brings foremost to our attention the dimension of the holy in man's existence. There are several dimensions of Holy Rite which culminate in its holiness. Rite brings out forcefully not only the harmony and beauty of social forms, the inherent and ultimate fragility of human intercourse; it also brings out the moral perfection implicit in achieving one's ends by dealing with others as beings of equal dignity, as free coparticipants in li. Furthermore, to act by ceremony is to be completely open to the other; for ceremony is public, shared, transparent; to act otherwise is to be secret, obscure and devious, or merely tyrannically coercive. It is in this beautiful and dignified, shared and open participation with others who are ultimately like oneself that man realizes himself.

That *equal dignity* is a tricky one. But. Art and rite.

http://faculty.smcm.edu/jwschroeder/Asian_Religions_2015/textdownloads_files/Confucius%20chp1%262.pdf

[girardfag No.9725671]

>>9724735
McLuhan was so ahead of the game. This fucking clip anon. You are my hero.

>when you live out not the frontier, you have no identity, and so identity is always accompanied by violence
>terrorists are people minus identity

[girardfag No.9725681]

>>9725671
>>9724735

>we live by the revival, it tells us who we are, or were
>everybody tends to merge his identity with other people at the speed of light

please hammer don't hurt 'em

[girardfag No.9725731]

>at this moment we are on the air and we don't have a physical body
>at this moment we are on the air
>live and on the air

The Sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsNaR6FRuO0

The Feels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxhugRKZ8g

[Anonymous No.9726279]

>>9725341
Yep.

>>9725636
>And, you're right, triumph - in a sense which is neither really religious or tragic, but transcendentally masochistic. Mishima would have liked it, I think. It's the defining scene of that film, imho.
And the climactic scene takes place in a kind of building whose purpose puzzles me. Is it a warehouse? (Secular) shrine? Museum? Art gallery? All of the above? A building is a kind of dwelling *for* something and in everyday scenes we are open to the telos of everyday structures. But this one seems like it was made just for Motoko and the Spider Tank's battle, yet it's something that no architect within the world would know. Transcendental telos.

>And every individual belongs to some culture, and is located somewhere in space and in time, devotes X amount of time to thinking about this stuff. But in the end we - you and I, whoever - are presented with this phenomenon of art, the aesthetic, the sublime, which has a trace, an argument for something.
Art as rite. And it's def too easy to shitpost instead of figuring our what is shared. Ofc there are times when art fails to live up to some standard, but this again points to some standard that is shared. It's unfortunate that art that divides sometimes garners more attention, because whipping up vitriol results in a spiraling holy war. And art mirrors modern politics in that manner. The outrageous unapologetic statement wins over the sublime.

>Perhaps a modern Westerner would be tempted to speak of the "intelligent practice of learned conventions and language
Yep. No private language, just like there is no private rite. Because it would be meaningless.

[Anonymous No.9726600]

>>9723631
>>9723752
>>9723797
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_62Jvpad6Q

[Anonymous No.9726610]

>>9716414
last man detected

[Anonymous No.9726680]

>>9724678
reminds me of this
https://vimeo.com/75534042

[girardfag No.9726744]

>>9726600
noice

>we gotta install microwave ovens
>custom kitchens deliveries
>we gotta move these refrigerators
>we gotta move these colour TV's

>I shoulda learned to play the guitar
>I shoulda learned to play them drums
>look at that mama, she got it stickin' in the camera
>man we could have some fun

Hail the acceleration megamix. Media for the Media god.

Dire Straits: Money for Nothing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVRcjmgxJEQ

[Anonymous No.9727764]

Bump, I like where this discussion's going

[Anonymous No.9727767]

>>9727764
I sometimes feel like it's hard to follow these discussions, as interesting as they are. I think I'm so old-fashioned I can't keep up. I feel like the cliffside on which the waves are breaking.

[Anonymous No.9727778]

>>9716414
You know, some of us would enjoy being modernist, if that meant we didn't have to suffer from some how meaning being pulverized out of life for some reason, or that the end goal is apparently a unholy beast made out of pure capital.

Me, i'm just going with the flow. Evola may sometimes be meme tier, but sometimes you just have to simply ride the tiger, and wait for a optimal time to strike. I understand that Traditional civilization is impossible yet, I dream for something more meaningful then modernity, for better or for worse.

I mean modern technology is lovely and all, but at what cost?

[Anonymous No.9727783]

>>9727778
stop larping you fucking autistic virgin

[Anonymous No.9727831]

>>9727767
I know right.

I'm thinking of skipping this century. Maybe when the acceleration reaches full force we won't need this anymore.

[Anonymous No.9727838]

>>9724604
>Yep. Girard + Land is a weird combination and it's taken me a fair bit of reading to get to this point, but now I can't unsee it. It really is the goddamn Matrix. Planet Meme + Meme Capitalism. I used to be paranoid that this was the way that things might be, and now I'm basically certain that they are this way. It just all makes too much sense. Cybernetic research in WW2 feeds directly into postwar economics and the cybernetic revolution takes place through *media* without anybody even noticing.
Exactly. The entire world shifted at some point and no one noticed under the weight of 2.5 kids, a car, and a tv.

Where does one start with Girard, by the way Girardfag?

[Anonymous No.9727842]

>>9727838
>2.5 kids
you mean 1.5 kids

[Anonymous No.9727855]

>>9718935
>mfw all this problem is already solved but the solution implies there being no imperative to the solution
Say Anon, do you want to live an ideal life? It's up to you, really, you just need this one easy trick.

[Anonymous No.9727878]

>>9727855
>tfw afraid of Taoism btfoing everything that i'm saving it for last

[Anonymous No.9727905]

>>9727878
Getting a daoist PoV is sort of like playing Dark Souls: that fucking up is both acceptable and inevitable only gives more meaning to trying to do things "right".

But in the meantime, you can shake in your boots all you feel like.

[Anonymous No.9727914]

>>9727905
Surely you mean "not playing Dark Souls".

But to play Dark Souls and realize you've been doing it all wrong is better.

[Anonymous No.9727942]

Have you guys seen/got any thoughts on Tetsuo The Iron Man? It's not necessarily accelerationist but offer an interesting look into the libidinal-industrial complex.

>>9727914
It's like playing Dark Souls and realizing the computer/console isn't even on.

[Anonymous No.9727945]

>>9717995
t. Thomas Bernhard

[Anonymous No.9727946]

>>9727942
That's two times in a row I've fucked the image posting. I guess it's cue to get back on track with Life™.

[Anonymous No.9727950]

>>9716345
>stirner + hobbes is ancap
I'm not reading this thread any further. I wish I could go back in time and prevent myself from learning to read.

[Anonymous No.9727954]

>>9727950
anon cmon he totes meant the tiger from the funnies
anon where you goin
come back
i need you bae

[Anonymous No.9727974]

>>9727942
>It's like playing Dark Souls and realizing the computer/console isn't even on.
Kek

But the question is, is it Fun?

[Anonymous No.9728055]

>>9727974
It's fun in a different way than usual, like how kicking a ball is fun, more than the sublime excitingness or pursposeful ardentness other postures give.

[Anonymous No.9728103]

>>9728055
>but you can just Be the Ball instead
>be Zen
>and get kicked around
>that's kinda not fun tho

[Anonymous No.9728112]

>>9728103
That ain't how Zen works famingo.

[Anonymous No.9728138]

>>9728112
Object oriented zen tho

It works for meditation. Kinda.

[Anonymous No.9728200]

>>9728138
Oh totally, it is something that you can do.

[Anonymous No.9728204]

Heidegger and Ted Kaczynski were right all along and there's not a thing we can do about it, because Gnon is cold.

[Anonymous No.9728210]

>>9728204
But who's gonna push the button when there are no hands?

[girardfag No.9728501]

>>9727838
Depends on what you're into. Desire, Deceit & the Novel is good if you're interested in his literary criticism and Great Books. He loves Great Books and is a wonderful critic and reader. I'm *still* waiting for his Shakespeare book to arrive, so I can't comment on that. But he builds his theory of mimesis out of literature. He doesn't do invent this entirely by himself: it's there in Hegel, of course, and in Lacan. But Girard applies this to literature in ways that are really rewarding to think about. He helped me to understand what it is that makes Great literature Great. Really what I wanted to know way back when before all of this philosophy stuff happened.

If you're interested in his religious/anthropological theory, the books are Violence and the Sacred, The Scapegoat, and Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World. Scapegoat theory is a pretty uniquely Girardian idea, and it's derived from his theory of mimesis. For more death/sex/god stuff see Bataille. For a very different look.

For politics, Battling to the End. This is where Girard brings in Clauswitz and turns mimetic desire into a political thesis: the logic the duel. Essentially, he argues that modern states become compelled by the need for escalation to act more or less as modern individuals do. With the same consequences. For more on this, Clauswitz and, once again, Hegel.
>the hegelpill is strong medicine
>getting into hegel now
>good times

The thing with Girard is that it is, in many ways, all unusually simple and really doesn't require a tremendous amount of jargon. Or even, really, of prior reading. That's what I found so interesting about him: he was just sort of this forgotten other dude of theory. Deleuze, Derrida, Foucault, Lacan et al are all giants but you don't hear much about RG, who was just quietly there in the background coming up with a perfectly interesting theory that explains a lot.

The Palaver intro and the Girard Reader are both good overviews and surveys, fine for intro stuff. Even before that you can check out the Raven Foundation, they have other downloads and other things there. The nice thing about Girard is that he really doesn't need a whole lot of preparation or anything, he's very accessible. It's all basically about what you're into, but it all connects in the end. So start wherever seems most interesting to you, really. And happy memeing.

https://www.ravenfoundation.org

[Anonymous No.9728533]

>>9728200
I became a Ball once but it was hard to verify it because I was a Ball.

>>9728204
>or you can live innawoods and make mailbombs
>or you can just live innawoods

>>9725554

>>9728501
Good post. I will screencap this to preserve my special pixels for posterity.

[Anonymous No.9728554]

>>9728533
Try to "return to nature" is probably the most bourgeouis thing you could do beside visiting a museum or tourism, though. You're basically solving nothing.

[Anonymous No.9728575]

>>9728554
>you'll just end up living innawoods with your smartphone and internet
>so just shitpost on the internet from the comfort of your spacetimecube

It is ultimately a question of meaning and one's inner comportment with the world. "Solving" things and subscribing to an "ethics of x" etc. are things for the engineers of man. And it ruins the allure of the supererogatory.

[Anonymous No.9728620]

>>9728575
>>you'll just end up living innawoods with your smartphone and internet
That's not what I mean. The return in its most through form is a utopia conceived from an urban perspective, as old as Rome or post-Zhou China. But you don't see Amazonian Indians refusing vaccines because they're too "modern" or whatever.

Look, I'm not telling you to do or not do anything --hell, more power to you if you want to live differently from the norm--, but it's pure delusion to join a "nature" that doesn't even exist to begin with and you only conceived as a rejection of "normal" life, and also makes me think you take the rest of humanity to be a bunch of idiots.

>And it ruins the allure of the supererogatory.
>Implying there's such a think as too much or too little.

[Anonymous No.9728665]

>>9728620
I was not at all saying that I intended to live "with nature", but rather one's attitude is more important than the mere act of living in a non-urban environment. But sometimes the act of doing so can help, because that is what ritual is. Its a means, not an end. I think it is not necessary to actual go through with the action as long as one contemplates the significance of it as a rite of passage but that's my cerebral and probably vain way of going about it. And an unwillingness to sacrifice.

>a rejection of "normal" life, and also makes me think you take the rest of humanity to be a bunch of idiots.
Yes. Vanity. Maybe the middle ground is to pursue normalcy but to do it with excellence such that it becomes extraordinary. Also, it should be thought of as a project over one's whole life that one can reflect on and affirm, instead of trying to "achieve" something, especially when young. Youth is for learning, not outdoing masters.

>Implying there's such a think as too much or too little.
I don't want to have to mop the floor when I leave the tap on.

[Anonymous No.9728691]

>>9728665
>Its a means, not an end.
But what would the end be?

>And an unwillingness to sacrifice.
Sacrifice what?

>Maybe the middle ground is to pursue normalcy but to do it with excellence such that it becomes extraordinary.
So you're going to be abnormally normal or normally abnormal? Can't you be normally normal or abnormally abnormal instead? Is any of this necessary?

>Youth is for learning, not outdoing masters.
Is that what a young man would say?

>I don't want to have to mop the floor when I leave the tap on.
Then you should be in good terms with the tap.

[Anonymous No.9728726]

>>9728691
>But what would the end be?
Still sorting myself out.

>Sacrifice what?
>sacrifice your firstbon to appease the gods
>ok how about a goat ok
>nah praise jesus instead

>Is that what a young man would say?
It's what a young man imagining what a wise sage would say. Wise sage bonks the upstart with a cane.

>Then you should be in good terms with the tap.
Or Be the Tap. Good advice.
>then someone forgets to turn you off and blames you

[Anonymous No.9728736]

>>9728726
Ain't giving your son or your goat to God kind of nonsensical though? I mean, what could you have that would mean anything to the old man? And if he says it's just a test brah then that makes the whole thing be about you!

>Still sorting myself out.
You sure it's not the other way around and you move from what you've sorted out?

>Wise sage bonks the upstart with a cane.
Hahaha!

[Anonymous No.9728744]

>>9728736
Sacrifices are *beautiful* in their "irrationality". Let's not get to the Abrahamic God so quick. It might btfo the magic of it.

>You sure it's not the other way around and you move from what you've sorted out?
Mistaking means for ends is a grave mistake.
>or you just say that so that you fool yourself into thinking it's really important cos it's for something else
>shut up we don't know if it's not wrong yet

>Hahaha!
>young man imagines wise sage bonking self on cane
>self-discipline here we go

[Anonymous No.9728801]

>>9728744
>Mistaking means for ends is a grave mistake.
It ain't where you're going through, it's where you're coming from.

[Anonymous No.9728812]

>>9715946
Is he describing Detroit?

[Anonymous No.9728814]

>>9716385
you + ur mom = you

[Anonymous No.9728828]

>>9728801
Aha. I certainly hope my aeroplane is sorted out before the flight. But when man gets to that point, isn't he finished?

[Anonymous No.9728953]

>>9719212
dumbest question in this thread

[girardfag No.9729590]

>>9727942
>inside the flesh of an ordinary salesman terrible things have started to take place
>metal psychic wars

What a recommendation. Ye gods. I watched the trailer. I'm not sure if I even want to watch the rest of the film.
>don't be a fucking dweeb girardfag
>but nick land tho
>weak girardfag. that's weak. i thought you liked fucking up your whole day staring at horribleness
>fuck you inner self
>kek

Industrial revolution into WW2 into Freudo-Marxist critical revolution into media revolution into cybernetic revolution into Meltdown/Circuitries into Hotels Designed by HR Giger's Friendlier Younger Brother into You Know Maybe It's Just Me But Something Seems Weird About This But I Can't Quite Put My Finger On It.

We know and we can't stop doing it to ourselves. Horror expresses this. Alien shows this. So did the Terminator films. So did Akira. The body interpenetrated by technologies from Outside.

I was thinking about this yesterday, about all the places we've gone since WW2. All of it. Culturally it was bananas. Technologically it's even weirder but we don't see it. Culture sort of finesses Tech into place and makes it wearable, visible, consumable, playable. But when the Japanese go hard on the unconscious fucking hell do they ever go hard on it. German expressionism in the 20s (more recently Giger) intimates some of this. Tetsuo the Iron Man is clearly updating this. Shirow and Gibson made it prettier, or grimmer, or whatever-erer. Something artists can do, I suppose.

This thread has started to really make me realize how very much indeed Marshall McLuhan was alert to what was going on. When information brushes against information. At least the leafs can boast one god-tier live-wire theorist.
>tfw driving into the future using only our rear-view mirror

>>9727942
>It's like playing Dark Souls and realizing the computer/console isn't even on.
kek

>>9728533
That post has a bunch of annoying typos and grammar errs in it but oh well. Enjoy, Ball-anon.

For all of it you can't beat the soundtrack.

Chemical Brothers: Dig Your Own Hole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dajDg63iEw&list=PL1DDE246CFAD41894

[girardfag No.9729654]

>>9729590
>and best of all as we drive backwards into the future we are only stepping on the gas pedal harder and harder. whether to make things better or worse. we cannot beyond a certain horizon know. we hit the heidegger brake or the land pedal
>or the ejector seat i guess

>the more time dilates, the more conscious and compelling - Junger

I guess this is Deleuze (or Deleuzo-Marxism, which is Left Acceleration). If it's repetition that keeps this happening, then you step on the Accelerator and push the thing harder, having no idea where it's going. Someday somebody can make an unusually interesting movie about a simple car chase about this that can put all of these clouds of bizarre theory in miniature. Maybe like Duel: Some spooky little microcosm:

Duel: Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xZsoMSEsaA
>ok
>you want to play games
>*honk*
>kek
>oh the keks

More music.

Peter Gabriel: Big Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBAl9cchQac

The Chemical Brothers: Escape Velocity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXMhGADyMxE
>y the video so goofy chemical brothers, y. y u so bohemian
>b/c y not
>true

[Anonymous No.9730214]

>>9721417
If you're interested in watching Serial Experiments Lain i would also recommend the game which you can play for free online: http://laingame.net/

[Anonymous No.9730406]

>>9724678
I'm not entirely sure what I just watched, but it was beautiful. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.9730440]

>>9723879
>>9719909
>>9718543
Jünger dropped acid. Why are all philosophers junkies?

[Anonymous No.9730456]

>>9730440
Junger dropped heavy shit and was presonal friends with the inventor of LSD, but he wasn't a junkie

[Anonymous No.9730544]

>>9724678
This channel is a goldmine

[girardfag No.9730589]

>>9724678
>>9730544
Is it ever. What in the high holy fuck.

[Anonymous No.9731510]

>>9723752
youre face looks like shit

[girardfag No.9731553]

>>9731510
that's because it is

[Anonymous No.9732012]

>>9728501
>For more death/sex/god stuff see Bataille. For a very different look.
I've been meaning to get into Bataille for a while, so I'm glad he can fit into this conversation too