ITT: Share your edgiest, most contrarian literary opinions

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Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:14:24 2017 No.9687717 [Reply] [Original]

ITT: Share your edgiest, most contrarian literary opinions

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:16:27 2017 No.9687723 >>9687717 Books are boring

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:20:58 2017 No.9687730 Anything published after the year 2000 is shit.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:25:02 2017 No.9687742
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>>9687717
1. David Foster Wallace was a genius and Infinite Jest will be universally acknowledged as part of the Western canon within 100 years.

2. George R.R. Martin is a scat fanfiction writer masquerading as a fantasy novelist and GoT is an abomination. He is also probably literally autistic as well.

3. "Slam poetry" inflames the same part of the brain as "The Turner Diaries" but gets a free pass because black people are now a priestly caste in American society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:32:39 2017 No.9687762 >>9687742 Only 3 is right

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:34:27 2017 No.9687765 Notes From The Underground is the only good thing written by Dust toy eve sky.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:37:42 2017 No.9687773 Pynchon is a hack and will be forgotten a few years after his death John green is the rightful successor of DFW and both are equally terrible

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:44:30 2017 No.9687801 I don't consider Rupi Kaur to be a real poet but some of her stuff I find touching.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:45:05 2017 No.9687804 >>9687717 This is gonna be funny.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:45:40 2017 No.9687807 >>9687804 Reddit is that way, faggot

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:46:08 2017 No.9687810 >>9687765 Weak.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:47:11 2017 No.9687811 >>9687807 Hahaha continue

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:51:45 2017 No.9687824

People complaining about how nonwhites/women/whatever always only write about their problems completely miss the mark; suffering forms the core of most of the modern canon, and it's not in any way a stretch to write about supposed racism/sexism

Similarly, Toni Morrison is probably the best American writer of the past 50 years

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:54:56 2017 No.9687830 Dostoevsky is extremely funny and I feel like it's 100% involuntarily

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:55:44 2017 No.9687833 >>9687717 Hamlet sucks Ass

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:57:17 2017 No.9687837 >>9687742 I couldn't agree more with all three.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:57:33 2017 No.9687838 >>9687765 Eww, how do you function day to day.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 12:58:34 2017 No.9687842 >>9687830 What specifically do you find funny? He has a specific style of dry, situational humor and it's clear that the second half of notes was intended to be humorous in an absurd way, for instance.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:23:16 2017 No.9687909

>>9687717
boomer literature is boring, and influential to the current and previous generation who haven't produced a single worthwhile book or poem. there isn't a single author right now who is both talented and able to capture what it is like to live in the post 2000s.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:27:12 2017 No.9687919
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>>9687717

/lit/ is full of pretentious fuckbois that only read books off reading lists, "The Western Canon" being the supreme autist's go-to reference for posing as just another cancerous "intellectual" striving to critique and analyze the artistic process they will never truly understand because they will always be hack artists themselves. Not only that, but they turned Catholicism and The Bible into massive memes, just new catalysts designed to further distance themselves from the Reddit Boogyman. Religiously oriented contrarianism against atheistic oriented contrarianism is still being a complete neckbeard. Not once do I get the sense from any of you people that you have a real sense of love for the literary arts, it's all just a means to further culturally enrich your "lifestyle", which is indeed cancerous and lame, and it shows how empty you all really are. Yet we all continue to perpetrate the memes that continue to bog us all down into sniveling ego-driven maniacs with no sense of empathy for each other in this tournament of taste battles.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:30:04 2017 No.9687926

>>9687742
I unironically agree with all of these. When watching DFW interviews and reading infinite jest, one can sense that DFW is an intensely intelligent, thoughtful, and creative person.
Game of Thrones is pleb garbage, although they did a great job on the TV show.
Left wing extremists are definitely not looked down upon as much as right wing extremists are. One could be a communist and most people would just think they are retarded, but if one is a fascist they are instantly vilified.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:31:59 2017 No.9687933 >>9687717 Forefathers' Eve by Adam Mickiewicz. Lame af and just stupid, lucky you don't have to read this

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:46:07 2017 No.9687979 >>9687919 This.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:48:44 2017 No.9687986 >>9687824 This is true. It's a frankly bizarre complaint, of course people write about their experiences of suffering.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:51:53 2017 No.9687993

Nothing between the years 1400 to 1901 are worth reading. And all modernist writers suck and postmodernists too. I ONLY, under every circumstance, read Sumerians or Babylonians, Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, Medievalists, and a selection of contemporaries.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:54:38 2017 No.9688004 >>9687824 Except it's not suffering. It's mass delusion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 13:57:11 2017 No.9688011 >>9687919 You understand.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:00:42 2017 No.9688019 >>9687919 should i kill myself

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:02:58 2017 No.9688031 >>9688004 Yes, you are right anon, there was never slavery or segregation, those people are just whiny.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:05:46 2017 No.9688043 >>9688031 Post modern 'minority' writers did not endure any real hardship in those senses.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:08:30 2017 No.9688053 >>9688004 That can be said for most all writing about suffering. Whether or not it's 'real' is irrelevant, if the author feels that they've been slighted and want to write about it, they might as well. This is art, not anthropology

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:09:02 2017 No.9688056

>>9688043
You don't think there are any current repercussions from either of those things? You think black people living in poverty is just a big coincidence?

Toni Morrison lived in an area where black people were lynched, and lived through segregation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:09:39 2017 No.9688057 >>9687919 I come here for the banter and laughs, lit should be a private thing between you and yourself. If you're lucky enough to meet someone who's lit then that's great, but over the Internet there's nothing worthwhile to be gained.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:10:07 2017 No.9688058

>>9688031
Most who write those books or articles today weren't alive then, and that's who I'm saying are delusional. They're usually middle class and living in a first world country, which would make them the 1% in the world and the 0.000001% of who ever lived.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:13:16 2017 No.9688069 I'm unironically coming around to believe that literature died after the 19th century, with very few exceptions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:15:47 2017 No.9688078 >>9687742 GRRM book series (TV-Show sucks ass) will be rememberd as Tolkien's rightful successor and DFW will be forgotten in 20 years Slam poetry can go die in a cave

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:24:46 2017 No.9688103 >>9688019 im really thinking about committing suicide someone help

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:28:28 2017 No.9688111

>>9687824
Wrong, virtually all of the canon was written from a position of at least middle class leisure and privilege. This is probably because suffering in and of itself is not interesting or valuable. Most people of all races, classes, and IQs have been miserable throughout human history, not just black Americans. If you're like Toni Morrison and unable to express this pain in a unique, creative and intelligent way, then you should just keep your mouth shut

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:28:56 2017 No.9688113

>>9688103
My personal life-saver is my curiousity
I only stick around because I wanna know what'll happen
Just don't take life too serious and enjoy the ride lt's kind of like a bad trip but you can make it more pleasant if you just try to take a step back and relax
the end will come sooner or later anyways so why bother rushing it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:28:59 2017 No.9688114 >>9687833 This. Macbeth is the superior play.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:30:07 2017 No.9688117

>1984 is good
>Atlas Shrugged is good
>Flowers for Algernon is not really that sad of an ending
>the MC in Native Son was pretty much innocent cause racism forced his actions, but nowadays because of shit like BLM I can't even say that without being branded an SJW. I just found the book interesting cause he really didn't have any malice in him, only fear.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:33:44 2017 No.9688131 Being well-read means nothing if you can't apply what you've learned.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:39:27 2017 No.9688143 >>9688131 >this is how plebeians actually think

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:45:59 2017 No.9688161 Modern french philosophy is an abomination and all French philosophers should be shot

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:48:50 2017 No.9688169 >>9688111 I mean most canon (particularly 19th century and onwards) deals with the suffering of its characters

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 14:54:58 2017 No.9688189 >>9688161 What about Camus? He's god teir

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:09:02 2017 No.9688235

Literary academia, the publishing industry, and the award circuit, is responsible for a glut of terrible writers (most notable example being DFW), and directly responsible for the present low profile of the novel.

All of the above mentioned wouldn't know a good novel if they were smacked in the face with one.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:10:14 2017 No.9688239

>>9688058
>They're usually middle class and living in a first world country, which would make them the 1% in the world and the 0.000001% of who ever lived.
This is kind of pedantic, but these numbers don't add up. If you do the math, the top 1% who ever lived would not be the top .000001% of all time because of the massive population explosion following the industrial revolution. You're off by a few orders of magnitude.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:11:36 2017 No.9688242 Stirner ended ethics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:31:49 2017 No.9688301 >>9688242 Sterner is a meme philosopher and literal nobody

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:35:04 2017 No.9688309 >>9688301 This is a contreversial opinions thread not a common opinions thread. Also I said ethics not philosophy. What's good, what's bad?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:36:20 2017 No.9688314 File: 533 KB, 384x288, dfw.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9688078

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:37:34 2017 No.9688318 >>9687717 Fight Club is a modern classic and should be read in High School

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:38:37 2017 No.9688324 File: 104 KB, 980x798, Golden_katana_detail.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9688318 nice

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:42:51 2017 No.9688338 File: 402 KB, 599x391, tt_glasses.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9687919 exactly man

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:46:20 2017 No.9688350 >>9688309 Ethics is philosophy you brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:46:47 2017 No.9688356 File: 1.19 MB, 182x119, 1328084289656.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9687919

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:48:05 2017 No.9688360 >>9688189 >Camus >philosopher I like Camus, but this is absurd.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 15:48:13 2017 No.9688361 File: 72 KB, 900x695, beat_takeshi_by_jubhubmubfub-d3kham2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9687919 Someone criticized your favorite author and you couldn't handle it. I understand man

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:14:09 2017 No.9688449 >>9688360 If you don't view Camus as a philosopher, then you don't actually like Camus.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:15:33 2017 No.9688455 >>9688449 How is summer treating you kid?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:16:22 2017 No.9688457 >>9687717 I didn't like War and Peace. The whole "it's like the world was writing it's own story" never appealed to be, neither do his politics or views on history.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:17:15 2017 No.9688462 Pynchon is one of the worst things to happen to English language literature. Notable mention to Vonnegut for this honour aswell. Writers who emulate these two are invariably crap.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:20:00 2017 No.9688475 >>9688455 Kid? I'm 45 year old with a PhD in Philosophy. Oh, I'll bet you feel so silly now that I've humiliated you in front of everyone, kiddo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:21:45 2017 No.9688486 Erotic fan-fictions/role playing is the height of literary excellence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:23:07 2017 No.9688491 >>9688475 Whoa kid, you got me. Get on the Discord and tell everyone how you BTFO'd me

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:24:35 2017 No.9688497 >>9688056 Half the world, more than that really, lives in poverty. They get no special allowences for their lifestyles. >inb4 I'm white >am not

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:24:37 2017 No.9688498 >>9688491 lel, you arrogant American insect.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:25:59 2017 No.9688503 Nothing will ever totally be; Nobody ever totally is. The concept of God almost totally is, as “total being” would entail everlasting life; we do not know God, however, so in our perspective even he cannot totally be.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:27:24 2017 No.9688505 >>9688498 you lose kid

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:29:09 2017 No.9688511 >>9688475 wtf in a 45 year guy with a PhD in philosophy doing on here. Go do something more productive.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:33:08 2017 No.9688522
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Thinking about books, buying them, placing them on your shelf, looking at them and contemplating reading them one day is SO much more fun than actually sitting your ass down and flipping through the thing coherently

>buy book
>look at book
>touch book
>make lists of books you might want to read
>think about how much fun it would be to read them all
Very nice, this stuff is incredibly entertaining.

>actually sit down and read the book
You look at the dumb symbols and make the words I'm falling the fuck asleep over here this shit is f u c k i n g BORING

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:34:54 2017 No.9688530 >>9688497 Basically every writer ever, including those writing about suffering, are in some position of at least modest wealth or upbringing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:35:34 2017 No.9688533 >>9688522 Congrats, you've become a mindless consumer. Go buy a gun and figure out what to do next

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:36:49 2017 No.9688536

The best writing is typically quite simple. Anyone that goes beyond a certain level of verbosity is just making their writing worse. For example, I think that William Faulkner showed signs of being a great writer, which indeed he was, but you don't those moments of greatness as much as you should. If the guy toned down the flowery shit, he could've been the best writer of all time. This is why I think the Russians were superior, and the Brits shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:38:05 2017 No.9688542 >>9688522 So you like the shopping element more than reading. Congratulations, you're the equivalent of those women who go buy a new pair of shoes at the mall every week.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:39:13 2017 No.9688547 >>9688522 /lit/ will find it hard to accept this, but it's the truth Actually sitting about motionless and reading all the words is the least entertaining aspect of a book.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:40:20 2017 No.9688551 >>9688530 care to back that claim up with some facts?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:43:02 2017 No.9688560 >>9688533 >Go buy a gun and figure out what to do next Lemme guess, post on a forum about his new purchase and inquire about tips on pimping it out with custom grips and sights? :D

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:43:18 2017 No.9688561 >>9688551 Name decent writers who produced their work while impoverished. I can only think of Dostoyevsky during the 1860's.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:45:20 2017 No.9688571 >>9688561 >everything must be dealt in extremes, you are either wealthy or impoverished dumb shit anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:45:25 2017 No.9688572 >>9688551 >"The sky is blue." >c-c-care to back that audacious claim up with some facts which confirm to my standards of scientific research???? tips glasses Open up the window, retard. Look the fuck outside

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:46:09 2017 No.9688573 >>9688571 Where the fuck did I say that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:46:39 2017 No.9688576 >>9688572 okay smart ass, the window is open, what am i looking for?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:47:44 2017 No.9688579 >>9688576 The sky. It's fucking blue.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:57:13 2017 No.9688619 >>9688561 Melville? Kafka? Anyone writing outside of the western world?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:57:35 2017 No.9688623 >>9688579 It's night, so it's black

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:58:28 2017 No.9688629 >>9688547 >These are the people we share a board with You might find it hard to believe, but some of us (very few, probably) genuinely love reading.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:58:53 2017 No.9688631 >>9688623 That's just a dark shade of blue moron

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 16:59:07 2017 No.9688632 >>9687717 Hitler had decent prose.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:00:38 2017 No.9688641 >>9688619 Idk about Melville but Kafka was solidly middle class >writers outside the western world Like?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:01:00 2017 No.9688642 >>9688629 nerd do some freakin math while you're at it, fagboy

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:03:29 2017 No.9688649

>>9688619
>Melville
>Part of a well-established and colorful Boston family, Melville's father spent much time out of New York and in Europe as a commission merchant and an importer of French dry goods.

Kafka's family were Jewish merchants.

Nobody here is living in poverty, if they had to worry about what to eat tomorrow they wouldn't be writers

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:08:11 2017 No.9688672 >>9688649 >Nobody here is living in poverty, if they had to worry about what to eat tomorrow they wouldn't be writers You sound like a middle class suburbanite. Hunger is actually a good muse.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:08:31 2017 No.9688673 >>9688511 I can't I got fucking blacklisted from teaching.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:09:58 2017 No.9688678 >>9688672 Yes, Africa is currently the #1 exporter of quality literature

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:10:13 2017 No.9688680 >>9688672 > he thinks skipping a meal or two is 'hunger' Kill yourself, you insufferable manchild.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:11:16 2017 No.9688685 >>9688678 god damn you're retarded

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:11:43 2017 No.9688689 Britain hasn't produced a quality author since Milton, Woolf exempt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:12:54 2017 No.9688691 >>9688685 Just accept that writers tend to be middle class, at least

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:13:23 2017 No.9688696 >>9688672 People don't starve because they know how to read and write you mongoloid

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:15:08 2017 No.9688705 >>9688689 You've read them all since Milton? Impressive. Which British authors have you not liked recently?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:16:59 2017 No.9688716 >>9688705 >Which British authors have you not liked recently? All the ones that came after Milton (Woolf exempt)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:19:15 2017 No.9688725 >>9688716 Merci pour votre contribution. Your Official Pseud membership card is in the mail.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:20:35 2017 No.9688731 >>9688725 I see this is the type of club where you have to be invited and initialized by a senior member huh spouts Latin

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:21:36 2017 No.9688738 >>9688673 Do tell. You fuck a student or something stupid like that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:21:48 2017 No.9688739 >>9688629 t. brainlet who didn't understand what that anon meant at all

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:23:31 2017 No.9688744 >>9688738 Got caught smoking pot and watching porn in my office on 4/20. I put wet towels under the door and everything, but they found out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:24:06 2017 No.9688745 i am better than you because i rock lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:24:06 2017 No.9688746 >>9688744 Nigga you retarded goddamn

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:24:35 2017 No.9688750 >>9688738 Tried to make the kids read Lolita and some Evola excerpts on the low low but I got snitched on and my ass was sacked - permanently.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:24:46 2017 No.9688752 >>9688744 ABSOLUTE MADMAN

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:34:48 2017 No.9688785 There is no humor in Kafka

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:39:48 2017 No.9688797 File: 63 KB, 600x799, 1458926420850.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9688462 >one of the worst things to happen to English language literature Well, good thing I'm reading him in translation, then.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:40:34 2017 No.9688804 People who can only write when under the influence of some sort of recreational drug are plebs, no exceptions.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:42:56 2017 No.9688815

>>9687717
There's no difference between pseudo-intellectual and intellectual.

All political positions can be boiled down to anti- or pro-natalist

Catcher in the Rye might not be as bad as a lot of people think it is, but the novel is irrelevant now that antiheroes are common in pop culture

Liberal unwillingness to recognize racial differences in IQ reveals their equating intelligence with human value. Conservatives do not share this position, in part because many successful capitalists are not high IQ

Most academics and writers are Marxists, because that is the system under which they would have the most power

Relatedly, most contemporary philosophers are only ethical realists because that position increases the relevance of philosophy in the modern world

The literary world hates Trump because most are crypto-Victorians who can't stand the idea of someone with worse manners having more power than them; their criticism of policy (where it exists) is secondary and only exists in service of rationalizing that discomfort

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:45:17 2017 No.9688823 >>9688815 >because that is the system under which they would have the most power this is blatantly inaccurate

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:46:22 2017 No.9688828 >>9687717 "Young adult fiction" is an overused term for children's books.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:47:22 2017 No.9688832 >>9688815 You sound like a dumbass.

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:48:56 2017 No.9688838

>>9688815
>Liberal unwillingness to recognize racial differences in IQ
Unwillingness? Then why are they so adamant about keeping affirmative action for blacks forever a thing?

I'm pretty sure they know full well about racial differences, they're just being deliberately evasive because they want the world to burn.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:50:48 2017 No.9688843 >>9688823 Competition is a constant. When wealth disparities go away, ideas become primary source of power.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:51:49 2017 No.9688846 >>9688843 all communist countries have produced basically no literature and little worthwhile academic output

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 17:59:06 2017 No.9688882 >>9688846 Yeah but thats a separate consideration from whether academics and writers had prestige in those countries... not to mention that Marxists likely consider those countries to not have succeeded at Marxism

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:00:31 2017 No.9688890 >>9688815 >There's no difference between pseudo-intellectual and intellectual. how can this possibly be true some people are clever. some people pretend to be clever

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:00:44 2017 No.9688891 >>9688838 But they won't express that publicly, where the justification for such measures is about circumstances, opportunity, racism

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:01:56 2017 No.9688897

>>9688815
>Most academics and writers are Marxists, because that is the system under which they would have the most power
You aren't wrong but to be fair it kinda depends on what generation of academic, ones from the 50's would get invited to the USSR and treated like living gods, they literally believed it was paradise.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:07:07 2017 No.9688927 >>9687717 Isk

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:22:07 2017 No.9688991 >>9687824 Except the complaint is that they haven't conveyed their sufferings with anything approaching talent. The criticism is that suffering is not enough

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:26:39 2017 No.9689013 >>9688716 >Woolf is even worth reading, much less better than a wordsworth or a blake Topkek

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:41:01 2017 No.9689056 Blacks and half breeds are Incapable of writing of anything but their own opression, especially if they have never faced hardship

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:44:49 2017 No.9689070 >>9687765 THIS. Certain parts of Crime and Punishment were good.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:46:23 2017 No.9689078 >>9687717 Brave New World was mainly about components of an utopia, not dystopia.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:47:44 2017 No.9689080 people writing about sexism or racism is boring and unproductive improve yourself

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:50:22 2017 No.9689089 >>9687824 Suffering doesn't mean shit. God I fucking hate the liberal post-Christian cult of the sufferer, as if people become sanctified by having shit thrown in their face.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 18:58:35 2017 No.9689113 >>9689089 Most literature from the 19th century onward focuses on suffering

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:04:43 2017 No.9689141

>>9688031
Pity weakens and corrupts people, and seems that you have a particularly bad case of the sufferer-worship complex. Have you ever considered that women are inferior to men for biological reasons, or that blacks were enslaved because they were inferior to whites? Have you ever considered that most great writers, like, for example, Dante, Shakespeare, and Milton, are not born from the soapboxing of authors about perceived slights against them? Have you ever considered that "privileged" people might actually be morally and intellectually superior to the lower classes by virtue of their position in life?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:05:54 2017 No.9689150 >>9688991 Most of the time it just appears to be (here at least) that 'no one cares about your whining about muh racism or muh sexism'. It's doubtful anyone here has even read Morrison or maya angelou

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:07:40 2017 No.9689155 File: 31 KB, 1280x720, reeeeeeeeeeeee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Brave New World was enjoyable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:08:05 2017 No.9689156 >>9689150 That's because it's hackwork. There are probably a million east euros with worse stories and more talent who aren't paraded as great artists

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:08:09 2017 No.9689157 >>9689141 Whether or not the hierarchy is justified is irrelevant to the situation

Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:09:17 2017 No.9689163

>>9689113
The good writers don't. Writers are supposed to harness feelings and turn them into universal emotions, to understand, articulate, express feeling in a rational way. By your logic, the particular personal faults of Dostoyevsky are the cause of his greatness, which is a preposterous and destructively romantic notion, because Tolstoy is just as great and much more profound while having a much cushier life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:10:18 2017 No.9689166 >>9689156 I'm not saying anything about the quality here, just the subject matter. Black people writing about racist slights they have gotten is a valid literary topic, even if it has produced some bad output

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:10:36 2017 No.9689167 >>9689157 If the hierarchy is justified, why should inferiors be assumed to write better just because they suffer? Isn't this just the empty lie that slaves tell themselves?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:11:19 2017 No.9689169 >>9689163 >the personal faults of Dostoyevsky are the cause of his greatness This is true though His personal life bleeds into his work

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:12:32 2017 No.9689178 >>9689167 >why should inferiors be assumed to write better just because they suffer I've never said that

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:13:20 2017 No.9689180 >>9689178 Sorry, I confused you for someone else

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:24:36 2017 No.9689216 >>9689166 >is a valid literary topic For several hundred pages it isn't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:27:34 2017 No.9689220 >>9687717 Academia really has been taken over by Marxists

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:29:36 2017 No.9689230 KJV is just awful Toni Morrison is a black supremacist who hasn't written anything great since Sula

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:35:54 2017 No.9689243 >>9687717 Rorty's conception of truth is right.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 19:36:34 2017 No.9689246 >>9689216 Perhaps, but that also has to do with literary skill. Certainly the minutiae of daily life isn't interesting in a novel without the talent of Woolf backing it up

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 20:28:09 2017 No.9689401 File: 176 KB, 299x475, the book.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Atlas Shrugged is a genuinely terrific novel. People who shit on it either haven't read it or are too cowardly to admit that it shook them to their very core.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 20:30:39 2017 No.9689412 >>9687717 Alfred Bester's The Pi Man was one of the key inspirations for American Psycho.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:04:11 2017 No.9689527 >>9689401 The trouble with Atlas is that it's a "how to guide" on how to be a principled individual. It allows idiots to parrot opinions that they should've come up with on their own. The only valuable conclusion is one you've come to on your own.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:08:57 2017 No.9689550 >>9687919 >contrarian opinions

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:41:49 2017 No.9689626 >>9689089 >cult of the sufferer >post-Christian Cult of the sufferer is extremely Christian

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:45:15 2017 No.9689641 >>9688360 I see what you did there

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:46:19 2017 No.9689644 >>9687909 Tao Lin?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:46:53 2017 No.9689646 >>9688078 It's obvious you've never read any other fantasy, and likely not many other novels period if you believe that. Sad times on this board, lately.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:48:11 2017 No.9689652 >>9687773 It doesn't count as an opinion if you've never actually read any of the authors you mention. It's just bait, and not even good bait.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:48:52 2017 No.9689654 Reading is for faggots

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:51:38 2017 No.9689666 File: 143 KB, 452x628, 1468301548664.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] /lit/ hasn't changed even slightly since 2011 and it's both comforting and unnerving

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:55:55 2017 No.9689677 Lasting literature is reactive and has never been prophetic or even a current/modern signpost. It can only reflect on what has already happened.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 21:57:44 2017 No.9689690 >>9689666 Mary was worst girl. Robert was best boy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:00:53 2017 No.9689695 Aesthetics are the one true virtue that every other thing can be judged by. The goodness of anything can be judged by whether it leaves a more artful world behind. Even so far as to say that man should serve art and not the other way around

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:05:29 2017 No.9689702 File: 83 KB, 640x480, 1473472913225.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9689690 Say that to my face kiddo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:10:00 2017 No.9689714 >>9688318 I agree with this actually. The fact that it's commonly misinterpreted says a lot about its relevance

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:15:33 2017 No.9689729 >>9689702 Mary and Takeshi belonged together only because they were equally bad. and they couldn't even manage that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:22:38 2017 No.9689745 File: 281 KB, 587x462, pathetic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] children's books aren't good anymore, there's no conflict and everybody gets along far too easily. it's all drivel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:29:51 2017 No.9689760 to kill a mockingbird is awful

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:50:53 2017 No.9689799 >>9689652 I've read works by all three

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 22:51:07 2017 No.9689801 >>9687824 #TRIGGERED

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 23:00:13 2017 No.9689825 File: 2.22 MB, 200x150, 1498534661190.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9687919 projecting much, faggot?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 23:03:03 2017 No.9689832 >>9688804 this

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 27 23:04:31 2017 No.9689837 >>9689078 this. i hate it when plebs think it the other way

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 02:06:31 2017 No.9690355 Reading is for women and there's nothing wrong with that

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 02:51:06 2017 No.9690435

1. popular american mid to late 20th century "literary" fiction (including the beats, pynchon, etc.) is largely dusty, sickly, overwrought, dull and not worth my time

2. every political philosophy from reactionary to radical is in some way respectable and manifests enjoyably in art excep the liberal bourgeois status quo, whose propagators' art is enjoyed in spite of their unthinking dogmatism

3. contemporary emphasis on austerity in language has long outgrown its usefulness and has a deadening effect on the senses. the cringe and the fear to stray from mediocrity and plainness needs to die.

4. hunter x hunter is literature

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 02:53:06 2017 No.9690439 >>9688815 good post

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 03:16:42 2017 No.9690496
File: 98 KB, 666x1024, C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_1495609768272m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9687730
More like 1900, with few exceptions.

>>9687765
Kys

>>9688069
This.

>>9688103
Just wait it out. Go to church and have a cup of coffee and a swing of spirit every other day.

>>9688131
Or at leasr understand it. Pretty much how most people take the Bible ad literam and completely ignore its deeper messages.

>>9688161
Their poets too.

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 03:39:53 2017 No.9690533

>>9687717
A few contrarian opinions, /lit/ edition:

1. Bukowski's poetry is pretty good.
2. Going out of your way to read feminist theory and woman writers is a worthwhile endeavor.
3. I like Samuel Beckett more than James Joyce.
4. Hemingway, Murakami & Vonnegut are all awful and basic bitch tier (not all that contrarian, maybe).
5. You don't need a guide or chart to "get into" an author or read a philosopher. You are free to be selective and read whatever books you want in whatever order you please.

>>9687824
>People complaining about how nonwhites/women/whatever always only write about their problems completely miss the mark; suffering forms the core of most of the modern canon, and it's not in any way a stretch to write about supposed racism/sexism
Agree

>>9687919
>lit/ is full of pretentious fuckbois that only read books off reading lists, "The Western Canon" being the supreme autist's go-to reference for posing as just another cancerous "intellectual"
Agree with this part.

>>9688815
>Catcher in the Rye might not be as bad as a lot of people think it is, but the novel is irrelevant now that antiheroes are common in pop culture
>The literary world hates Trump because most are crypto-Victorians who can't stand the idea of someone with worse manners having more power than them; their criticism of policy (where it exists) is secondary and only exists in service of rationalizing that discomfort
Agree X2

>>9690435
>contemporary emphasis on austerity in language has long outgrown its usefulness and has a deadening effect on the senses. the cringe and the fear to stray from mediocrity and plainness needs to die.
Agree

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 03:44:40 2017 No.9690538 >>9688815 nice

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 04:04:09 2017 No.9690561 >>9689641 wasn't exactly subtle.

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 04:25:20 2017 No.9690587

>>9687919
You ain't right about the way the good book is handled here.

Shit deserves attention simply by existing for so long as the sole piece of literature with significant mindshare. Religion is the original meme, my dude. Snow Crash is pretty much a history lesson on literacy + the Bible. We are all meme genealogists here, it's only natural we would be attracted

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 04:45:06 2017 No.9690631 Memes aren't real

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 04:48:27 2017 No.9690640 >>9690631 what is?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 05:07:22 2017 No.9690693 >>9689644 this

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 05:10:53 2017 No.9690703 >>9687919 That all sounds accurate. There's loads of Christian fedoralords here

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 05:12:33 2017 No.9690708 The Novel is outdated as an art form (just like sculpture and opera) and it only survives due to its nature as a succesful product for young to middle-aged women and as a status symbol for educated people short form fiction is the future

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 05:46:37 2017 No.9690788 File: 140 KB, 827x509, lit_theory.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] pic related says it better than I could

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 05:46:58 2017 No.9690789 >>9687919 Contrarianism is at the core of identity. You can't escape it

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 05:48:02 2017 No.9690792 >>9688360 >puns >ever fucking >>>/r/eddit

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 06:12:54 2017 No.9690834 Catcher in the Rye is the best WWII inspired novel

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 07:42:43 2017 No.9690949 >>9689745 this. aint really any more good bad guys any more.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 07:50:45 2017 No.9690962 >>9690496 >Their poets too. What's the problem with Apollinaire, Valéry, Régnier, Saint-John Perse, Supervielle, Péguy, Ponge and Segalen?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 07:59:48 2017 No.9690973 >>9688785 This is not an opinion, this is just objectively wrong

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 11:14:49 2017 No.9691479 File: 20 KB, 376x429, duke_nukem.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9690792

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:03:12 2017 No.9691655

>>9688815
>Liberal unwillingness to recognize racial differences in IQ reveals their equating intelligence with human value. Conservatives do not share this position, in part because many successful capitalists are not high IQ

That's... actually kinda interesting. Not sure if I'll agree but it's good food for thought. I don't think the comparative lack of value conservatives give intelligence has much to do with CEO types, though. I think it's that conservative values embrace a simple kind of living that doesn't have much need for intelligence (be a family man, be a useful member of your community, don't stray too far from your community in behavior or ideas, have a god) reflected in the ideology's adherents.

None of this is meant to be a jab at conservatism, btw.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:06:00 2017 No.9691666 File: 77 KB, 442x561, 1494267742582.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9691655

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:12:03 2017 No.9691685

>>9688815
>There's no difference between pseudo-intellectual and intellectual.
What does that even mean? They have different definitions. One is a fraud and one isn't. Sure, people throw around the word pseud like it's nothing, but that doesn't mean it actually, definitionally means nothing.

>All political positions can be boiled down to anti- or pro-natalist
Sounds interesting but you're gonna have to elaborate.

>Most academics and writers are Marxists, because that is the system under which they would have the most power
But why are so many students Marxist, then? They wouldn't have any power. I think living in a detached, academic bubble naturally causes one to gravitate toward lofty, complicated ideals that are often, as in the case of Marxism, disastrous in application.

>Relatedly, most contemporary philosophers are only ethical realists because that position increases the relevance of philosophy in the modern world
This one actually is true.

>The literary world hates Trump because most are crypto-Victorians who can't stand the idea of someone with worse manners having more power than them; their criticism of policy (where it exists) is secondary and only exists in service of rationalizing that discomfort
Mostly true.

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:16:41 2017 No.9691705

Eh fuck off. I actually think that's a better way of life than being some marxist academic recluse. I don't understand how saying that the average person just wants a simple life and that a simple life doesn't require you to be all that well-learned or inquisitive means much.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:17:58 2017 No.9691707 >>9691705 meant as a reply to >>9691666

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:22:25 2017 No.9691725

Kurt Vonnegut is a genius. Anybody who denigrates him as 'pleb tier' or the like just does not understand his genius. To put it plainly, his use of words is genius. In hundreds of years humanity will look back at his works as a master at work, relatively unloved in his own era.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:27:28 2017 No.9691738 >>9690435 Best post in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 12:28:34 2017 No.9691742 File: 1.70 MB, 620x349, pkd.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9687717 Non-fiction is a genre of fiction.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:33:33 2017 No.9692712 >>9687765 Edgy =/= poorly read

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:40:09 2017 No.9692735

>>9687919
I agree in general, but from the catalog it's normally pretty easy to tell which threads are memes and pseud wankery versus threads that are focused on real opinions and quality discussion.

And hating "The Western Canon" because of self-styled intellectuals who only ever read Wikipedia synopses of classics is self-destructive.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:41:11 2017 No.9692740 >>9688069 At least poetry didn't

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:51:15 2017 No.9692772 >>9692740 This Read Milk and Honey by Rupi Kapur - poetry isn't just alive it's healthier than it has ever been

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:54:54 2017 No.9692778 Most intellectuals and academics are not particularly intelligent but rather bookish and egotistical, and you'll more easily find wisdom in the common man.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:56:28 2017 No.9692784 >>9692778 Romanticising the common man despite never having talked to one is grade A pseudomy

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 17:57:45 2017 No.9692794 >>9690708 This post is outdated

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 18:01:25 2017 No.9692807 >>9690834 It was started before Salinger even joined the armed forces, you immense pseud.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 18:05:05 2017 No.9692821 >>9692778 muh noble savage stop reading so much self hating victorian lit

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 18:05:45 2017 No.9692826 >>9692807 When a novel was started has absolutely nothing to do with what influenced the final work kiddo

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 18:25:56 2017 No.9692905 >>9687717 The desire to be "realistic" and "down to earth" completely murdered literature and made almost nothing past the 20th century worth reading.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 18:36:06 2017 No.9692946 >>9688131 Fucking utilitarian

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 19:48:06 2017 No.9693164 >>9687717 Dosto is better than Tolstoj.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 19:49:03 2017 No.9693169 File: 161 KB, 1020x814, the-dessert-harmony-in-red.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9688522 True

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 19:56:12 2017 No.9693191 >>9688361 t. pretentious fucboi

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 19:58:05 2017 No.9693196

I despise the way some armchair philosophers obsess over definitions while having a conversation. Sometimes it comes off as really disingenuous, like they're just trying to avoid a conversation that makes them uncomfortable.

Does something like "begin to exist" really need to be defined outside of an academic paper? Am I being unreasonable in expecting people to know what that means?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 20:04:39 2017 No.9693212 any author that writes books longer than 200 pages is a cunt that thinks too highly of himself and likes to waste everyone's time

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 20:35:42 2017 No.9693300

1. I don't believe people on /lit/ are being honest when they lament the fact that no one they know reads literature/philosophy. Any attempt at a an intellectual discussion would be so clunky and self-conscious that it's for the best that they don't occur. People are far more interested in catching others out and earning pedantry points or scoffing at 'pleb' tastes than saying anything meaningful. Literature is better as a personal thing.

2. You can basically never win when it comes to conversations about taste. Either you're too generic if you list the biggest names in world literature as your favourites (Shakespeare, Dante, Homer etc.), you're pretentious and trying too hard if you list obscure writers, or you just get labelled as a 'pleb' for having a taste that doesn't conform to these categories.

3. Dostoevsky and Nietzsche are extremely overrated by this board because of their heavy-handedness in expressing ideas which means that it takes minimal effort for half-hearted young readers to understand their views and attempt to live by them. They lack subtlety and so are easily latched on to by people that aren't willing to commit to more challenging works.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 20:45:35 2017 No.9693333 >>9687919 Gotta say friend, this is the most perspicacious thought I've seen here (only been a few weeks, nonetheless, legitimate).

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 21:06:30 2017 No.9693390

>>9688815
>>9691655
>Liberal unwillingness to recognize racial differences in IQ reveals their equating intelligence with human value. Conservatives do not share this position, in part because many successful capitalists are not high IQ
But the only reason it ever entered the academic conversation was because conservatives wanted to establish a legitimate reason to promote racism. Conservatives relished the idea of inherent differences between people's which can thus be used to facilitate the enforcement of existing social "castes".

>>9688838
>>9688891
As far as I can tell, affirmative action has been out of favor for a long time and isn't even legal in California which is supposedly the liberal Mecca.
>because they want the world to burn
Oh. So your just a hyperpartisan.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 21:10:30 2017 No.9693401 Alain de botton is completely correct to summarize all philosophers as basically 'take it easy man'

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 21:13:47 2017 No.9693411 >>9693300 I haven't read enough Nietzsche to comment but I think your idea about how this board views Dostoyevsky is accurate (although I believe there is just a lot of literary structure and subtlety that this board just ignores)

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 21:13:50 2017 No.9693412

>>9693196
>"yo socrates, wanna get some cocaine and go bowling?"
>"by zeus i do, my good man. but before that, could you tell me, what is the nature of "bowling" exactly? a simple definition will do."
>30 minutes later....
>"it is not being bowled because it is a thing bowled but on the contrary it is a thing bowled because it is being bowled; nor is it because it is something struck that it is being struck but because it is being struck that it is something struck; nor is something being [...]"
>call meletus on the phone
>"meletus, what's good negro. socrates is popping off again. wanna get some cocaine and go bowling?"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 21:26:12 2017 No.9693441 >>9687919 This is the most accurate shit ever said about /lit/.

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 22:11:33 2017 No.9693553
File: 72 KB, 593x594, 1498681178416.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9687919
I think the best way to tell if someone is sincere is by looking at how much non-fiction they read because none of that shit is glamorous. Additionally it can be marked by how much overlap in concepts, themes, and subject matter there is between the fiction and non-fiction that the person has read which indicates a passion for the topics at hand and not just reading famous things for the image.

>>9687742
>3. "Slam poetry" inflames the same part of the brain as "The Turner Diaries" but gets a free pass because black people are now a priestly caste in American society.
People aren't forcing themselves to like slam poetry in order to humor black people and pretending it is is a strawman of liberals. We like slam poetry because it is a form of poetry which is social in nature and casual in a way which retakes the art form from pseuds and returns it to being an actual form of cultural expression. I love classic poetry but slam poetry is something which can be done in a group with friends and beer. We make no mistake of its position.

>>9687824
>>9688991
My unpopular opinion is that people on /lit/ judge black and minority authors more harshly than white authors. We can have a white dude come out with "Antisocial Neet #8462" and receive praise but then we get "Racism: My Story #6467" and suddenly it is not only unoriginal but is propoganda. Black authors also cannot be casual without /lit/ passing off all black authors as "low art". White authors can stand on their own merits but for black authors it feels like their entire race is being put on trial when discussed on here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 22:38:29 2017 No.9693617 File: 27 KB, 400x500, 1497668271339.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9687717 The Bible is not particularly interesting as literature

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 22:50:40 2017 No.9693650

>>9687717

>Eastern philosophy deserves a lot of attention, especially because it helps cure the existnential angst I see in a lot of people

>Proust is not talked about enough on here or in literature in general, which is a shame because he's had an insanely huge impact on many artists since then. It also shows the disconnect between academia and true artists, as Proust is a behemoth for many artists but is just glossed over by academia.

>DFW is great

>in combat, on its home turf, a male platypus in peak mating season could kill a pack of 30 arctic wolves. The platypus basically controls the ecosystem, can eliminate food sources for the wolves, poison all water sources, and stealth kill the alpha wolf who hangs in the back of the packs traditionally, creating intense in-fighting as the less alpha wolves compete to be the new alpha.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 22:51:39 2017 No.9693656 >>9687919 you certainly dug into the whole edgy part of this thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 22:59:04 2017 No.9693676 >>9687717 Invisible style is a lousy tool for literacy. Purple prose teaches reading comprehension better than invisible style.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:03:27 2017 No.9693689 >>9687824 >women only write about their problems I don't browse /lit/ much, but I don't think anyone has ever said that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:05:46 2017 No.9693692 The fact there's discussion of zero female authors tells you all you need to know about this board. And should make painfully obvious why sjw's exist. White boys disregard women and minorities and aren't even aware of how conspicuously they do it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:12:24 2017 No.9693713 File: 750 KB, 1083x679, sky at night is not blue.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9688631 Really? Because I'm pretty sure it's far closer to blue's complimentary color than to blue.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:16:39 2017 No.9693723 >>9688103 hey, whats up dude? wanna talk?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:23:04 2017 No.9693741 >>9688235 Log-rolling is even worse in academia than the commercial world.

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:23:26 2017 No.9693744

>>9693692

>people in candy stores dont even buy vegetables, wtff?????

face it, women and minorities make up such a marginal percentage of available literature its to be expected, and what does exist isnt very good. if you want to take that and ask WHY thats another matter entirely divorced from the existing source materials and why someone would most read "white males" -- quite simply, theres not much else.

but yes institutional segregation is part of the why. give women and minorities another century or so to get over themselves and they might start to create things authentically

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:25:07 2017 No.9693750 avantgarde is a bunch of worthless crap, people who like it should be sent to psychiatry to get professional help

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:25:25 2017 No.9693752 I automatically think lesser of anyone who thinks Dostoevsky>Tolstoy

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:27:04 2017 No.9693757 >>9693752 >>9693750 The OP said contrarian

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:41:31 2017 No.9693811 >>9693757 This is /lit/, it's contrarian.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:42:33 2017 No.9693812 >>9693811 Nah

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:44:01 2017 No.9693815 the classics are shit starting with the greeks is the dumbest meme ever

Anonymous Wed Jun 28 23:49:36 2017 No.9693829

>>9687919
>Not once do I get the sense from any of you people that you have a real sense of love for the literary arts, it's all just a means to further culturally enrich your "lifestyle", which is indeed cancerous and lame, and it shows how empty you all really are.
Get fucked
How is enjoying literature for the benefit it has upon one's life a negative?
How is that not a part of enjoying the literary arts?

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 00:24:26 2017 No.9693887

>>9690435
>2. every political philosophy from reactionary to radical is in some way respectable and manifests enjoyably in art excep the liberal bourgeois status quo, whose propagators' art is enjoyed in spite of their unthinking dogmatism
>All philosophies have at least some merit except for my current political opponents.
Golly gee!

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 01:43:26 2017 No.9694055

>>9687717
The great irony of /lit/ is that, for a place that so boasts its intellectual merits more than any board on 4chan, it is so entrenched into the most autistic of dogmas that I'm half convinced that a thrd of the board is pseud contrarians, another third pretentious hipsters who use literature and philosophy as fashion accessories, and another third who don't care enough about the first two to do something about it.

When every discussion of female, nom-white, non-cis, hell even just lower class philosophy or literature is discussed, all rational thought goes out the window and the buzzwords come out like flies, hovering around the garbage heap. There's no time to critically analyze the strengths and weaknesses of an argument when you can blame cultural marxist atheist liberal immigrant transgendered faggots for the decline of western culture, which ironically only further justifies the cancer that actual SJWs peddle.

/lit/ would be infinitely better as an actual literature discussion board, because it's clear that 4chan does not have the structure necessary to facilitate actual philosophy discussion, and instead poses as a /fit/ or /ic/ style improvement board, as if you can somehow measure intellectual "gains". There is no fucking reason that a board this small should suck so hard.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 01:58:13 2017 No.9694087

>>9687919
A bit broadly brushed, but generally correct. I do hope you appreciate the irony of decrying a perpetual communal lack of empathy. Also, is your post a self-condemnation, as well as board-wide? You are the company you keep (and misery loves company).

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 01:58:22 2017 No.9694089

>>9693887
maybe you're right, that might be an unfair prejudice of mine.

i'll revise it. i think i generally prefer to read people who've seriously grappled with their corest beliefs, and who have some awareness of the shaky temporality of conviction.

a dogmatic who understands what he adheres to, and substantively understands why others do not adhere to it, is pleasant for me to read. i don't hate dogma. a dogmatic, of any time and any preference, who refuses to even entertain heresies in the domain of his own mind, is vile and boring.

maybe this is another unfair prejudice of mine, since it correlates to my own experience of indecision and fluctuating moral conviction. maybe sureness is a characteristic of people i shouldn't be so quick to dismiss in life and in art.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:03:00 2017 No.9694099

>>9694089
adding on: it might be comfortable sureness i dislike. the kind that is never challenged, or never follows through on challenges from dissonant experiences, opinions, or the persecution of others. the socially redolent surety of belief in the decadent roman patrician versus the headstrong, unwavering conviction in the face of contradiction experienced by the christian he watches eaten alive by lions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:09:13 2017 No.9694110 Literature is overrated intellectualbabble.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:09:37 2017 No.9694111

>>9687919
Save the theosophical kick, this accurately describes my intellectual life. Reading is a means to end. I like to tell people I've read certain books, knowing full well I'd never read most of them if it weren't for the intellectual clout. I even suspect that my reading comprehension only allows me a barely surface level understanding and recollection. I do love the arts, however I also love the appearance doing so brings me, even if it is only one an anonymous internet community—even here I can almost convince myself through interacting with all of you that I'm the brilliant man of letters I fantasize about being, marooned in mediocrity. Because I contort myself and my writings, as meagre as they are, into something I'm not and they're not—producing a product artificial and saturated—I am invariably a hack artist. Only now do I speak honestly, and so it is only now I become not necessarily unique, but an individual, indivisible and visible.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:13:16 2017 No.9694118 >>9694111 sure you're not being hard on yourself? i'd hate for you to smack yourself into depressive delusion. it can be easy to mistake for honesty.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:16:04 2017 No.9694124

>>9693553
Maybe if black authors could write about literally anything other than race they'd get more respect. We were forced to read a dozen affirmative action books in school and every one was about either slavery or civil rights. They're so damn boring.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:20:15 2017 No.9694127 >>9688056 >You think black people living in poverty is just a big coincidence? Of course not. American blacks are poor because they're stupid, which is the same reason they're poor in literally every single other place on earth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:36:33 2017 No.9694155 >>9688360 Oh, (You)

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:44:39 2017 No.9694168
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>>9690788
>Pynchon
>Not fun
Motherfucker in GR an immortal lightbulb has to fight a lightbulb cartel in order to be free... and it's actually based on a true story!

Stop taking a bunch of words so seriously. The reason the academia is like it is is because they're bored by the pleb stuff. At worst they lack an imagination or the capability to enjoy simple things along with others... it's not really a nice position they're in and their environment only makes it worse. But a bunch of them are still passionate about it, only they're the only ones passionate about it in that way--therefore their rhetoric.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:49:13 2017 No.9694172 File: 221 KB, 900x696, 75cd3cf81266df6d950d9036473e26fd.900x696x1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Modernism has taken literature in the wrong direction.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:52:57 2017 No.9694179 >>9690435 >hunter x hunter is literature How? It is a pretty good anime, but I do not see in which way it relates to literature. Also, Togashi triggered me when that one character casually mentioned Kant literally after having murdered two girls.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:56:40 2017 No.9694187 >>9694055 >and instead poses as a /fit/ or /ic/ style improvement board, as if you can somehow measure intellectual "gains". underrated post

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:57:28 2017 No.9694189 >>9693300 Nietzsche is much more subtle than you think.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 02:59:08 2017 No.9694192 >>9694189 That's what you always say.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 03:07:30 2017 No.9694211

Does anyone else think that intellectual pretensions in art produce nothing but bullshit? lit is kind of horrific. Everything related to Literary "Theory" is post hoc trend spotting or unfalsifiable extrapolation.

And lit is so taken with this and the laughable veneer of intellectualism that academia gives, it starts denigrating books that don't write about "worthy" topics (inb4 "but e Pynchon pooo"), or are written in certain ways, or don't have "allusions" or rim the cannon or, in short, facilitate the pretensions of Literary Theory and pseudo intellectualism in general, among authors and readers.

The concepts of fun and enjoyment are denigrated. I guess that's because boring things are associated with intelligence, such as boring things in education, but also because, at the most general, fun maybe relies on novelty, which is probably outside any "theories" asserted by academics and pseudointellectuals, or is maybe just a badly understood process.

So here we are. If you say you don't enjoy gigantic amounts of Pynchon rambling in Gravity's Rainbow, you're allegedly an idiot. If you don't like non sequitur filled post modernist books in general, that are written for English Literature majors to deconstruct, you're allegedly an idiot.

It's funny that these appeals to intellectualism and wide reading never ever extend themselves in to fields that require numeracy or rigour.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 03:36:09 2017 No.9694246 >>9694118 Like Luke Wilson's character in Idiocracy: Not Sure However I do know that I'm a man of half-measures and have therefore been availed nothing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 03:42:36 2017 No.9694262 Fiction has been deprecated.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 08:01:06 2017 No.9694623 >>9693164 My man. >>9693815 Classics are boring, not shit. >>9694192 Not OP, but he's indeed right. For example, what do you think about Ecce homo's index?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 08:22:33 2017 No.9694677 >>9687765 There's edgy and then there's being a fucking moron.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 08:24:05 2017 No.9694679 File: 1.60 MB, 2592x1936, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This bookshelf

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 08:24:36 2017 No.9694681 >>9687919 Ha Ha Le Triggered Man Am I Right Famalam?? :'^)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 08:42:25 2017 No.9694706 It's half a cliche to bemoan the lack of readers, but really fewer people should read. They gain nothing from it and muddy the waters for the rest of us.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 09:51:07 2017 No.9694876

>>9693390
>But the only reason it ever entered the academic conversation was because conservatives wanted to establish a legitimate reason to promote racism. Conservatives relished the idea of inherent differences between people's which can thus be used to facilitate the enforcement of existing social "castes".

bullshit

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 09:52:27 2017 No.9694882 >>9689626 atheists embrace christian ethics without realising it

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 09:55:25 2017 No.9694891 >>9693390 >people's Holee shit, here come's an S!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 09:56:44 2017 No.9694898 >>9693617 3/4 of the OT is YHWH being pissed off at the isrealites and threatening to punish them

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:02:07 2017 No.9694908
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>>9687824
if you suffer at the hands of a toaster burning your toast, do you accost the toaster as a hateful ideologue hell bent on keeping your specifically self appointed identity unsatisfied?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:03:49 2017 No.9694916 >>9689089 Christ suffered for our sins.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:07:46 2017 No.9694933 >>9687833 yeah I never got the superiority.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:16:47 2017 No.9694953 >>9694908 I'm not saying it automatically makes good literature, just that it doesn't automatically make bad literature

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:22:00 2017 No.9694970 >>9694908 #notmytoaster

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:39:32 2017 No.9695002 >>9688815 jesus fucking christ youre stupid

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:43:42 2017 No.9695016
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>>9693300
>3. Dostoevsky and Nietzsche are extremely overrated by this board because of their heavy-handedness in expressing ideas which means that it takes minimal effort for half-hearted young readers to understand their views and attempt to live by them. They lack subtlety and so are easily latched on to by people that aren't willing to commit to more challenging works.
pseud as fuck

you think anyone here is 'living' Dostoyevsky's ideals? lmao

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:52:50 2017 No.9695040

>>9688815
>The literary world hates Trump because most are crypto-Victorians who can't stand the idea of someone with worse manners having more power than them; their criticism of policy (where it exists) is secondary and only exists in service of rationalizing that discomfort
So you think people would be more amenable to Trump denying climate change if he said it nicer? Man, alt-right fags are really something, the desperation to be 'novel' genuinely defies belief. Of course it's the other side that are the special snowflakes, yeah?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:56:07 2017 No.9695055 >>9689714 wait, what's the correct interpretation of fight club?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 10:58:00 2017 No.9695062 >>9688503 >he thinks this is controversial

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 13:52:40 2017 No.9695544 >>9694898 >threatening He usually follows through in spades

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:00:53 2017 No.9695569

>>9694124
>Maybe if black authors could write about literally anything other than race they'd get more respect.
They do. People just don't look at them with any depth. Also a lot of the literature concerning racism was written in a time where racism would be all they knew considering they would have a much more difficult time branching out into any new spheres of life in which to gain other experiences. Then when they could branch out, literature was already dying.

>We were forced to read a dozen affirmative action books in school and every one was about either slavery or civil rights. They're so damn boring.
Where did you go to school?

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:03:07 2017 No.9695575

>>9695569
Not that anon but we read more than a few (well written) books in school that boiled down to Racism is Bad Kids. I got out last year, so it's pretty accurate to modern education. Weirdly enough only one of them was actually written by someone who was black.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:33:09 2017 No.9695648 >>9687717 1. Mishima is the greatest author born outside Europe to ever live. 2. The top three philosophers are, in order, Kant, Hegel, and Heidegger. 3. Infinite Jest is a load of pretentious shit and is objectively bad.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:38:36 2017 No.9695663 >>9693689 I think what they were getting at is that female writers are often criticized for writing about female issues, e.g. marriage, children, etc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:39:05 2017 No.9695665 >>9695569 Boy every school district is like that in the Jewnited States of America. Nothing but white guilt propaganda semester after semester >muh slavery >muh trail of tears >muh stolen generation >muh holocaust Repeat until sick

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:40:33 2017 No.9695668 >>9695665 >>9694124 >>9694127 This thread has just turned into a safespace for teenage /pol/acks

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:42:22 2017 No.9695673 >>9695668 >anything I find offensive is /pol/ I'd tell you to go back to /lit/ but it seems you're already here Schlomo

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 14:46:19 2017 No.9695680 >>9695668 im spanish and even i can see all of that is true

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 15:44:58 2017 No.9695855

>>9695569
>They do. People just don't look at them with any depth.

Because they're not good and don't have depth.

>Also a lot of the literature concerning racism was written in a time where racism would be all they knew.

How is racism all they knew? What about their family and friends? That's what many authors write about. What about something historical?(In literally any time period besides 1860's and 1960's USA) What about their relations with black community leaders? What about something more fantasy like Borges or Wolfe? Not every book has to be about your personal experiences with the government or whatever.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 17:11:34 2017 No.9696200

>>9695665
If that's the case then I've never seen it.

>>9695855
> What about their family and friends? That's what many authors write about. What about something historical?(In literally any time period besides 1860's and 1960's USA) What about their relations with black community leaders?
They wrote about those all the goddamned time. Confirmed for not actually having read them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 17:18:10 2017 No.9696210 I keep getting banned on lit for saying I don't like Tolstoy when I genuinely don't. But yeah, I don't like Tolstoy.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 17:35:02 2017 No.9696261

>>9696200
>They wrote about those all the goddamned time

You brought up the "racism" excuse, I was just explaining why it was stupid. So now I guess we're back to your original narrative of "people just don't read them." Maybe that's true, but the reason nobody reads them is because they're not any good. Every well regarded book by a black person that I've seen has been about race. If you can find me a black Tolstoy then I'll be glad to read him.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 17:36:55 2017 No.9696266 >>9696210 kek, please post proof. not a tolstoi fan either but i don't mention it much because i'm never in tolstoi threads/

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:08:37 2017 No.9696358 >>9696266 I posted in this thread when it started and the comment got removed and I was banned for like a day. Same thing happened like a month ago. I thought maybe i posted in the wrong thread (multiple tabs) but then I saw I was banned.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:09:47 2017 No.9696362 I hate reading most nihilistic literature because I don't need 300 pages to understand that nothing matters.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:15:47 2017 No.9696387 >>9694172 Without modernism there would be no literary theory or studies of literature within academia. A thread like this wouldn't exist as a result.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:16:26 2017 No.9696392 >>9696387 wtf i hate modernism now

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:19:47 2017 No.9696402 >>9687742 2 and 3 are correct 1 is absolutely false and frankly I feel sorry for you

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:24:20 2017 No.9696411

>>9696261
You brought up the "racism" excuse, I was just explaining why it was stupid. So now I guess we're back to your original narrative of "people just don't read them."
Family and community life was dripping from the works of the Harlem Renaissance. It is so plainly obvious and worn on the sleeve that anybody who thinks they only wrote about racism can be said to have not read them. Langston Hughes' most popular poem is about his mother for fucks sake. Additionally works about family and community would often be mired in the social conditions of the era which can easily give the impression that it was about race.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:45:17 2017 No.9696456
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>>9687717

I think /lit/ people are a little pretentious. They're just so full of themselves and their hobby. I'll do a funny caricature of it:

THIS MAN IS ONE OF THE WORST CRIMINALS WE'VE EVER KNOWN!

Really? What does/did he do?

HE WORKS A 9-5 AND WATCHES TV A LOT.

Lord. In. Heaven.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:48:44 2017 No.9696464 >>9696456 holy shit my dude I think you may have handed down one of the biggest burns I've ever seen

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:51:09 2017 No.9696469 >>9696261 >I can't be bothered to read, I'm too busy shitposting on 4chan

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:56:21 2017 No.9696481 >>9687717 Greentext stories are some of the best pieces of literature.

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:57:16 2017 No.9696485
File: 99 KB, 508x640, 1476056753509.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>bukowsky is shit and obvious
>octavio paz wrote false shit about politics and everybody believes him (samuel ramos, masks of hypocresy)
>slam poetry is hipsters killing poetry
>hannah arendt was cool, beavouir was dumb

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:58:30 2017 No.9696492 >>9696456 >>9696464 samefag

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 18:59:05 2017 No.9696495 >>9696456 you should stick to watching game of thrones, my friend

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 19:00:12 2017 No.9696499

>>9696485
>that pic

Maybe he's painting sad faces because he knows that the only thing he can do in life to feel like a success is shitting paint out of his ass, and the realization of this suddenly hit him so all he can do is shit out frowny faces.

It's all he's good for/

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 19:15:01 2017 No.9696537

>>9696456

you know I think the main difference we need to take away from jon snow versus theon greyjoy is that jon snow's dick is still there to use at any point.

probably why he's laughing

>>9696495

hey go easy on him man game of thrones is a book series

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 19:24:49 2017 No.9696560 >>9696456 Working 9-5 and watching TV a lot SHOULD be a crime. Fuck you normie enabler

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 19:25:36 2017 No.9696563 >>9687717 Dostoevsky had things to say but could not say them well. He was a shit writer and would be found making yiddish pop-punk fusions on souncloud if he was capable.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 19:27:23 2017 No.9696571 File: 28 KB, 480x853, 18813655_1793823080947838_3677368166615893366_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9690788 This post was written by a retard, so maybe you should just leave this fucking board

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 20:00:11 2017 No.9696668

>>9696411
>works of the Harlem Renaissance

This is like talking about the architecture of Zimbabwe. Yes it exists. Is it any good? No.

>Additionally works about family and community would often be mired in the social conditions of the era which can easily give the impression that it was about race.

Back to the excuses for only writing about race again.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 20:02:47 2017 No.9696678 >>9688536 please elaborate on the russians in this context

Anonymous Thu Jun 29 20:09:38 2017 No.9696703

>>9690788
literary talk has been around in academia for a long time. Everything that can be said has been said, every worthwhile theory has been explored.
Now it's about pushing the frontier, getting freaky and down right mischievous. The more difficult it is to grasp the better even if it is boring or nonsensical, because it will take longer for academia to fully explore. Its not our fault that we are geared towards an art form that's been almost conquered. The room has been hoovered but the corners have not get been swept. If you want the base stuff join a soccer moms book club, I'm happy to talk absolute bull-shit till the day my tongue rots from my mouth, and the smell kills all those capable of conversation. It's not about being intelligent it's about bullshitting and getting away with it, that's all literature has ever been about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 20:20:00 2017 No.9696726 >>9696678 I think the Russians wrote the right amount, and the Brits wrote way too much.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 20:40:07 2017 No.9696802 The Iliad > The Odyssey not even that edgy really, just patrician

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 29 20:49:15 2017 No.9696849 >>9696456 Lol

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/lit/ - Literature