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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 28 KB, 300x464, Infinite_jest_cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9686785 No.9686785 [Reply] [Original]

>read about 100 pages of pic related
>the boring episodes about the cringy teens at the Tennis Academy are increasing and getting longer

What the fuck? Does it stop!? I want more stuff about the film and Steeply, the crossdressing cop!

If I want to see edgy people complaining and saying "deep stuff" while thinking some sport that is not the most popular in their country is the most important thing in the world, I'd call some of my friends

>> No.9686795

>Why does this book not do exactly what I want it to do waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
fuck off

>> No.9686898

>>9686795
Jeez, I'm sorry then!

Just stating my opinion

>> No.9687039

>What the fuck? Does it stop!?

It doesn't, but there's also plenty more stuff about films, drug addicts and Steeply. (Imho Steeply parts are the most boring ones but hey.)

Anyhow the occasional "cringiness" is inherent to DFW's work I believe, because this kind of reaction towards certain "deep stuff" (that might or might not actually be deep) is his fundamental topic.

>> No.9687116

>>9687039
This. DFW's main gripe is that Western culture is deathly afraid of anything that looks/sounds/acts like sincere belief or feeling. That was probably the most important message I got from IJ. It helped open my eyes to just how strongly I'd been culturally programmed to recoil from any form of overt sincerity, and how forced cynicism and emotional detachment are used as crutches (and often, ironically, praised as virtues).

>> No.9687191

>>9686785
>100 pages into a 1000 page book
> already complaining like a child
> hurr tennis
> hurr characters
> inb4 op quits book and becomes "i hate Dfw fanboy"

>> No.9687261

>>9687116
But that assmption is not really true
Western culture loves sentimentality, fuzzy feeling-based decision making and all those things. It's only in the realm of art and specifically academia dealing with art that that "stuff" is demeaned and looked down upon

>> No.9687267

>>9687261
Maybe it's because I live/grew up in a more progressive area, but that's not been my experience at all. Holding sincere beliefs is taboo.

>> No.9687281

>>9686785
the stuff at the school is the best stuff. the stuff with steeply et al is worst.

>> No.9687377

>>9687191
>inb4 op quits book and becomes "i hate Dfw fanboy"
No, I'm liking the book. Really good to read. But the Tennis kids are really edgy, and their parts are boring

Steeply is funny

>> No.9687465

>>9687377
ok apologies. it is quite a slog of a book but still a fairly facinating read. yup by the end i developed quite an affection for the characters, as um crazy as they are. ive moved onto gravities rainbow. people have said its like being inside dfw head.

Dont want to ruin stuff but yup there's quite abit of the school character writing

>> No.9687599

>>9687465
Meh, it's ok. Just hope they stop being too edgy, but Steeply will make it up for me.

Also:
>start reading Infinite Jest
>Venus Williams is mentioned

Damn, she is old!

>> No.9687602

>>9686785
DFW stops focusing so much on the academy later in the book

>> No.9687607

>>9687599
You are so fucking stupid. It hurts to read your posts. Go back.

>> No.9687623

>>9687599
dfw probably heard of Venus Williams long before she was super famous with his tennis interest (only guessing).

i remember the early pages where hes talking about bugs in the bookshelf and how the character basically becomes a weed recluse. i was abit blown away someone actually wrote that kind of nuance. the creepy paranoia potheads get. i think the book in general gave me anxiety lol

>> No.9687627

Serious? Those parts are great

>> No.9687641

>>9687627
its a good book but at times it can really feel like the ramblings of a madman which might not be that far from the truth anyway

>> No.9687704

>>9687261
I feel like Western culture only loves those things superficially, and that they're generally not used in a sincere way and only as an accessory to one's personality

>> No.9687775

Keep going, there's an emergent part within the sublime gap between the footnotes where he talks about a Benis academy!

>> No.9689434

Dude wait till you get to the big tennis war game OMFG I had to skip that chapter wtf it's like author wanted to annoy me!!!!!!!??????? What happened there I didn't get or care for any of that mess I was pissed cuz I like those characters :(

>> No.9689442

>>9686785
Wait till DMZ kiddo. Even the bookchemist says the book gets addictive around 200-250

>> No.9689457

Get out before it's too late:

http://www.cosmoetica.com/B237-DES177.htm

>> No.9689463

>>9686785
It gets better once you get to the Quebecois Separatists. I'm on page 150, anon.

>> No.9689541

>>9689442

More like 500

>> No.9689548

Also, am I a brainlet for listening to the audiobook as I read? I find it much easier to take on what DFW is saying, I notice the style more, etc. when I'm listening to the audiobook too. I know this may be a bad habit forming, but the text is way too messy, small (literally, I hate small fonts) and longwinded for me otherwise.

>> No.9689586

>>9689463
>It gets better once you get to the Quebecois Separatists
Depends, I struggled with bits of Steeply and Marathe's dialog. It gets too political and dense and it's scattered among Academy and Gately parts that are way easier on the eyes.

>> No.9689715

Was DFW a racist homophobe? He keeps using fag and nigger and it hurts my feelings.

>> No.9689762
File: 40 KB, 540x960, 14563295_1860894424146676_309252975413651611_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9689762

>>9689715
Why is the "bait" here so shit?

>> No.9690594

>>9686785
I was actually annoyed whenever DFW would break-up a good couple of chapters with those fucking boring Steeply/Marathe philosophy exchanges

>> No.9690615

How are the kids sincere? I didn't get that impression at all. The whole book to me was about being functional vs being dysfunctional and why those lines are blurry at best. His characters are cringey because I believe DFW was pretty well sheltered from even basic social interaction so every character seems motivated in this abstract reductive inhuman way. Also "dude weed makes me paranoid" isn't that nuanced. But I think the kid smoked weed because it gave him a chance to be alone in the first place.

>> No.9690624

>>9690615
No. The kids are not sincere. It's just that dfw doesn't like insincerity, and reflected that through Hal when he was alone in the TP room. Hal wants people to be gooey and sentimental, but it has become hip and trendy at the academy to be a pseudo cynic and an anhedonic.

>> No.9690643

>>9690624
Oh I get that so Hal is like Holden Caufield in that way; still I don't see sincerity as being a well developed theme in IJ. Honestly the book is a lot like the works of his contemporaries (Ellis, Franzen, etc.) Middle-high-Middle-brow stuff, praised desperately as the return of the great American novel, and overanalyzed by the later generation but no one seems to notice or care how mediocre it is. Maybe no one wants to admit they spent hours on something that is not literary immortality.

>> No.9690648
File: 42 KB, 479x720, 1380697092809.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9690648

>>9690643

>> No.9690654

>>9690648
What is that cherubic gentleman supposed to imply friend?

>> No.9690656

>>9690654
It implies he doesn't have an argument

>> No.9690667
File: 419 KB, 500x383, IMG_1808.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9690667

>>9690656
Ah I see
>>9690648
Pic related

>> No.9690683

>>9690654
>>9690643
>overanalyzed by the later generation
>le stop pondering le ideals that i don't care for because they're in le bad book xD


>Maybe no one wants to admit they spent hours on something that is not literary immortality.
Or maybe they just like the book. Nice hidden agenda finding, fagpai. Honestly, why do you think that everyone dislikes he book just because you do?
>le look at my fedora, i am so smart because i realized why everybody defends it xD
Kys familia

>> No.9690695

http://exiledonline.com/david-foster-wallace-portrait-of-an-infinitely-limited-mind/

>> No.9690696

>>9690683
I didn't even say I disliked it but I see that it has flaws and I wouldn't place it on the level of great novels; it is a very popular novel and yes people do like it, but I disagree when people try to say it must be the greatest book of the 20th century or even in the top 20.

>> No.9690702

>>9690696
Oh. I take back all the things I said xD. What are the best books of the 20th century? :3

>> No.9690727

>>9690702
That would be a long list. Joyce has a few, Hemingway maybe one of them, Faulkner maybe one? Salinger is up there as well. Outside of the English speaking world you have Gide, Camus, Hamsun, Celine. I mean it would be daunting to even begin answering that. IJ i think because it is too based in ideas about life rather than experiences of life.

>> No.9690737

>>9690727
IJ suffers i think*

>> No.9690866

>>9689548
You're saying you need an adult to read along with you in order to understand the words?

>> No.9690942
File: 221 KB, 942x529, jest.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9690942

In lieu of any discussion, I'll just post this image.

>> No.9690953

>>9690942
lol is this real? I'm guessing they're making a Steeply allusion

>> No.9691042

>>9690953
Obviously a shoop c'mon now

>> No.9691097

What I appreciate in IJ is the way he beautifully develops the secondary or very minor characters, like Poutrincourt or Brucey Green. My favorite is the sort of reverse-arc or depiction of Bobby C, from monstrous drug fiend to a somewhat likable monstrous drug fiend.

>> No.9691113

>I want more stuff about the film

lmao just drop the book now

>> No.9691129

it doesn't get any better

the only parts I really liked were at the very end. gately in the hospital is sort of an unforgettable image for me.

If i didn't not give a shit I would enjoy sitting down and doing an aggressive edit of this book so that it just tells gately's story. it's the ONLY thing that matters. by the way, the character is pretty much plagiarized from a real life person that dfw observed, so that goes to show...

>> No.9691136

>>9691129
am I getting meme'd on?

>> No.9691156

>>9691136
with all sincerity m8, you need more self-confidence

>> No.9691165

>>9691042
I just wanted to believe that tranny porn producers are well read

>> No.9691180

>>9691042
Its actually not. I'd post the link, but Im at work

>> No.9691183

>reading modern lit fiction
don't tell me you SERIOUSLY do this...

>> No.9691212

>>9691180
But it looks so fake, did they do a shoop in post-production?

>> No.9691233

>>9691183
It's over 20 years old

>> No.9691241

>>9687704
Absolutely this. Take a look at all the terrible musicals for examples that make it as sellouts in Hollywood like Hairspray and La La Land, full of shallow sentimentality and petty vanity.

>> No.9691244

>>9691183
It's all ironic, relax senpai

>> No.9691254

>>9691241
How would you go about conveying those themes with sincerity? Which works do it to your standard?

>> No.9691401

>>9689434
you skipped something constantly referenced

>> No.9691430

>>9690615
from memory mario talks about hal being lonely and sad. the book is about emptiness and filling a void somehow. The people at the Academy are functional (barely). actually no the people at the Academy are all crazy. the book examines filling emptiness either through rampant drugs or even competition. jesus wtf anon

>> No.9691475

>>9690695
lol that article was a piece of shit

>> No.9691491

>>9691042
holy shit are you the trip dude who used to post on /mu/?

>> No.9691548

>>9689434
You should go read some Harry Potter books. Maybe you'd like them better.

>> No.9691589

>>9691491
I'm pretty sure we had this exchange at least twice before. Also I never stopped posting on /mu/, I just post more frequently on /daily/ now.

>> No.9691686

>>9686785

Likewise didnt like the academy chapters, they felt the most forced in the novel. Preferred the chapters with Gately and the druggies. They actually felt like people ripped out of some greasy rehab and put straight to the page. It's a great read, and it was probably part of the intended effect to have boring stints mixed in with the interesting parts, but I still feel it would have benefited from a good edit. Take out 2 thirds of the tennis academy plot, omit the retarded wheelchair assassin cult entirely, and focus more on the addicts

>> No.9692133

>>9691686
>omit the retarded wheelchair assassin cult entirely
>when it had great scenes like the Antitoi raid
Oh c'mon

>> No.9692181

>>9686785
I'm gonna give you a spoiler: one of the tennis kid's dad made the film. The tennis stuff becomes important later

>> No.9692201
File: 741 KB, 245x245, giphy[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9692201

>>9687116
>Western culture
When will this meme end?

>> No.9693694

>>9690942
I decided to actually look this scene up
Hoooooooly shit
>>>/gif/10838779

>> No.9693805
File: 77 KB, 880x907, 1498704028031.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9693805

>>9693694
tip kok

>> No.9694285

>>9693694
what the FUCK

>> No.9694314

>>9687116
But Infinite Jest, the book, is guilty of doing this shit too. Wallace hijacks a bunch of scientific terms without understanding what they really mean and uses them just to make himself seem smarter. I cringed when I saw shit like "kekulean", "Quaalude isotope", and "quadracylic"

>> No.9694565

>>9694314
Yes, and the part where Kate Gompert banged her head and the narrator said she had a concussion or might have a concussion. I know for a fact that you have to black out after hitting your head to have a concussion.

>> No.9694950

>>9694565
>I know for a fact that you have to black out after hitting your head to have a concussion.

Who told you this? Or am I getting memed? You can absolutely have concussion without blacking out

>> No.9695176

>>9693694
Me on the left

>> No.9695183

>>9687116
Not necessarily a bad thing. Plus if this is all DFW has to offer, save yourself the time. This revelation is amateur.

>> No.9695185

>>9694314
Typical of "almost-philosophers".

>> No.9695210

>>9693694
Boy did he sell that scene

>> No.9695801

>>9690727
Just stop at Joyce

>> No.9695811

read DFW's early work (Girl with Curious Hair) and his late work (Oblivion) to see the fella's real art. Parts of Hideous Men and Pale King are great too, literarily. It's a shame people only ever read IJ, which is his least literary and most didactic work -- it's the large version of "This Is Water."
I still like it, though.

>> No.9696371
File: 93 KB, 1004x373, grocery.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9696371

welcome to the water, homo

>> No.9696385

>>9695210
Which one are you talking about?