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/lit/ - Literature

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9678613 No.9678613 [Reply] [Original]

Thoughts on Faust?

>> No.9678628

>>9678613
Is the Philip Wayne translation acceptable?

>> No.9678634

thoughts on water
is it wet ?

>> No.9678937
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9678937

ok imma try something crazy here cuz I'm bored; let's have a serious discussion

Faust is one of my personal favorites
Goethe explores here beautfiully the nature (i.e. the impossibilty) of living a fullfilled life.
When Mephisto and Faust make the pact, Faust says he can have his soul as soon as he is truely content/fullfilled ("Sollt' ich zum Momente sagen, verweile doch du bist so schön..."). A lot of people hate on the 2nd part because it's so "absurd" but I think what Goethe really want to say here is that it is literally that absurd to archieve full happiness (as Faust does at the end of the 2nd part). He explores this notion in his Wilhelm Meister, a book wich has no true beginning and end, it's just a endlos journey of evolving/change, but ultimatley you are never "finished" (i.e. at a point in life where you can say "ok I'm fullfilled now, that's the end)
One of the themes that resonantes with me the most is the tornness of the individual between living a 'hedonistic' (pleasureful, life), i.e. finding meaning in love and the human desire for understanding and 'meaning' ("Zwei Seelen wohnen, ach, in meiner Brust.."). But also that with all the knowledge at our disposal we can only ever scrap on the surface of the "truth" ("Hier steh ich nun ich armer Tor - und bin so schlau als wie zuvor").
Another key lesson in the first Faust is, that it's not as simple as "make a pact with the devil and you will suffer". Goethe is way more subtle here(Faust get's rewarded greatly for his heresy) instead showing, that if we make the metaphorical pact with the devil, it's those who we love/which are closest to us who have to suffer. (The real tragedy in the play happens to Gretchen, loosing her mother, brother and even having to kill her child because of her love to Faust).
there is just so much to talk about in this small book, such as Goethes critique of the Church and his humanistic/metaphisical remarks but it's been a while since I last read it

>> No.9680105

>>9678937
Never read it, but i mean to after I re-learn Deutsch. I hear Goethe's Faust has an excellent side-by-side translation by Walter Kauffman. Regardless, I wanted to ask if Frankenstein is similar to Faust.

>> No.9680113

>>9678628

Yes

>> No.9680143

>>9678613
I've been reading through Faust lately and have a couple quick thoughts.

I got two pdf translations and one is amazing and the other is terrible. The amazing one is by Bayard Taylor. The terrible one doesn't actually say who translated it but the language is so dull, I can see why a translator wasn't named. It's a very beautiful work.

>> No.9680231

>>9678937

you're missing a large part of the overarching cultural/historical part of part 2. the whole point of part 2 is to magnify the personal, and frankly silly and small-minded concerns of part 1 into a metaphor for the entire german culture as a succesor to the greek one. it's an amplification of faust's personal ordeal into one for all of germany, since goethe viewed teutonic culture as the only true successor to greek culture.


faust is my favorite work in the entire western canon fwiw.
>>9680105
there is some overlap in themes and plotpoints but overall i would say no. frankenstein is at its core a PL rewrite that introduces certain enlightenment/romantic ideals. it leans more heavily on sorrows of young werther than faust

>> No.9680543

>>9680231
how did you misinterpret faust 1 and 2 this badly? i disagree with just about everything you say.

>> No.9680551

>>9678613
Faust II is second best play ever.

>> No.9680570

very Faustian, if you ask me.

>> No.9680586

>>9680570
I'd argue it's more kafkaesque if anything.

>> No.9680610

>>9678937
If it does have those themes I'm very interested in reading it. Would you say the hedonism vs search for truth thing is comparable to how it is treated in Brave New World?

>> No.9680623

>>9680570
>>9680586
this is textbook Joycean

>> No.9680629

>>9680623
>>9680586
>>9680570
LMAO you can't even see it's Orwellian.

>> No.9680675

>>9680586
Ugh, don't sully Goethe with Kafka references please.