/lit/ - Literature

civilisation orgasm world petit mort

>>9554733

>High test shit

this forced "high test shit here boys" talk for nick land articles is so nu-male and lame. i get it you post behind a lot of irony proxies its still fuckin lame.

>>9554733
>muh golden idols
Boring.

>>9554745
i bet you live in brooklyn, faggot

>>9554733
How is this guy reactionary again?

>>9554758
he doesn't like open borders and socialism, so he's a nazi

>>9554750

>ddurrrr don't make me feel like a cornball okay or you are from brooklyn o-okayyy

i don't even live in your country you triggered cornball faggot

>FUCKIN ARTICLE UP BOYOS THIS IS SOME QUALITY HIGH TEST SHIT RIGHT HERE FUCK YEAH GO CRUSH THAT SHIT

>>9554758

He's only reactionary insofar as people mostly avoid the direction he is going for (i.e total annihilation of mankind in favor of the capital). It's basically the ultimate nihilist thesis of "rooting for humanity might feel good but we're all doomed so let us jump into the abyss".

what the fuck am I reading

well that was a waste of time
>whoa things change and like capitalism, whoa
who is this boring turd, and why should i care what he has to say?

that site has a cute name, too bad about the content

>>9554785
delete this

>>9554772
>>9554774
>>955473
This shit is really fucked up. Im scared

>>9554781
spooked out of your skull

The story goes like this: Earth is captured by a technocapital singularity as renaissance rationalitization and oceanic navigation lock into commoditization take-off. Logistically accelerating techno-economic interactivity crumbles social order in auto-sophisticating machine runaway. As markets learn to manufacture intelligence, politics modernizes, upgrades paranoia, and tries to get a grip.
The body count climbs through a series of globewars. Emergent Planetary Commercium trashes the Holy Roman Empire, the Napoleonic Continental System, the Second and Third Reich, and the Soviet International, cranking-up world disorder through compressing phases. Deregulation and the state arms-race each other into cyberspace.

By the time soft-engineering slithers out of its box into yours, human security is lurching into crisis. Cloning, lateral genodata transfer, transversal replication, and cyberotics, flood in amongst a relapse onto bacterial sex.

Neo-China arrives from the future.

Hypersynthetic drugs click into digital voodoo.

Retro-disease.

Nanospasm.

>>9554733
what's his endgame?

>>9554880

Well, if you have to ask...

>>9554880
Utter transhumanism with absolutely zero regards for morals

We must leave our mortal, rotten bodies behind if we want to strive in this universe.

>>9554951
transcendence above all

>>9554733
thank ye kindly good sir, i love a good nick land/accelerationist/transhumanist thread

>>9554951
but don't those mortal bodies also supply the creative impulse to do everything in the first place? create capital, globalization, space shuttles, etc. even transhumanists will still follow a biological imperative, no?

what would be the point of living forever, like a head in a jar, if you couldn't appreciate things aesthetically, fall in love, enjoy galactic tourism and so on. i want to live like the jetsons, not like lawnmower man

Does anyone have the excerpt of Nick Land where he compares humanity to crude oil?

It's pretty great.

>>9554750
No, he's right. Please don't use coloured slang on /lit/ Thank you.

isnt this the guy who had amphetamine psychosis

>>9555888
is there room in that allegory for nietzschean
oil

it's highly refined, and crudity is anathema to it

>>9555905
yep

>>9554758
Because he's not defending accelerationism as a pathway to marxism.

>>9555906
C'mon man

He also makes up his own wacky brand of physics. I can't find it.

Did his contract with the Chinese military not get renewed or something? Why is he suddenly coming back to the west.

>>9555884

Ir is not supposed to have a point. His position holds that we are hosts to the capital, and only temporarily so. We shall fade, but it shall remain, once it is fully automated. Basically

>Fully Automated Gay Luxury Technocracy Dystopia

>>9555945
makes sense

>fully automated gay luxury technocracy dystopia

so like a really really horrible version of the jetsons. makes sense

i'd def read some kind of science-fiction story set in that world. kind of like a Culture novel written by HP Lovecraft. or a strung-out version of Mervyn Peake. or a horribly sober version of Hunter Thompson

>>9555966
Read Watts?

>>9555976
yeah. that's a good call. I read blindsight and I think one other one. he's good and very smart. didn't blow me away but that's no knock on him. again, i think i was probably too brainlet to understand everything that he was writing about

>>9555888
PLEASE HELP

>>9555929
What are you talking about?

>>9555888
I can't find it off-hand, but it had me looking up Reza Negarestani and Cyclonopedia.

Man that shit is dark.

>He begins by elaborating on the story so far: the conspiracy to return Cthelll, the earth's core, repressed runt sibling of the sun, to immanence with its solar mothership; the plotting of the return of the Tellurian insider; and the agency of oil as tellurian lube. All this we know and approve of.
>But what is important is this: ultimately, a theory that locates the source of the ills of the human psyche is the accretion of the earth 4.5 billion years ago is - obviously - far too parochial for the purposes of the Committee. It owes its local inhibitions to Land's fondness for Bataille and his disproportionate attention to Freud's later, flawed model of trauma in Beyond the Pleasure Principle...

feels tellurian man

https://books.google.ca/books?id=wt2gAclC27EC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=nick+land+humanity+oil&source=bl&ots=j84mMjrnrI&sig=F4lDil1TC19CoZUDzcB-19QB0cA&hl=en&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjHp76L9Y3UAhVMPBQKHSVkBp0Q6AEIUTAI#v=onepage&q=nick%20land%20humanity%20oil&f=false

>>9556094
hm ok

>>9554798
Whigs get out

Nick Land is such a memester.

His philosophy borders on the nonsensical because he reads like what would happen if William Gibson performed a facial on Bataille, but his writing is still compulsively readable.

It's quite interesting to me, how that works.

is this guy physically unable to write clearly? It's like post-structuralism all over again

>>9556483
One of his biggest influences was Georges Bataille so that's hardly surprising

None

>>9556494
This will always be funny

>>9554733
>In this germinal accelerationist matrix, there is no distinction to be made between the destruction of capitalism and its intensification.
"destruction" is the end of self-development, "intensification" is self-development speeding up, "destruction" means "value", as a real autocatalytic reactive substance in history, as a valid category for analysis of social development just ceases to exist

>The auto-destruction of capitalism is what capitalism is.
not dialectical enough of a description

>“Creative destruction” is the whole of it, beside only its retardations, partial compensations, or inhibitions.
there's two sides to the balance sheet

>Capital revolutionizes itself more thoroughly than any extrinsic ‘revolution’ possibly could. If subsequent history has not vindicated this point beyond all question, it has at least simulated such a vindication, to a maddening degree.
an extrinsic revolution has to be premised, if survival is desired, since self-destruction leaves noting

>>9556231
It's really fun to read, though.

>>9556231
>he reads like what would happen if William Gibson performed a facial on Bataille

>>9556609
that's exactly my point, the philosophy might be ass but it's still very fun to read and i'll take shit philosophy in fiction over genre shit any day

I've read his book no Bataille (less of an analysis and more of a strange pseudo-novel written in Bataille's style, which i like a lot because Bataille is my second favorite writer and the people he influenced tend to be nothing but hacks) and his book Fanged Noumena, which was also quite a read.

>>9554951
>>9555884
Nick Land isn't a transhumanist

>>9556687
ok, but he's close enough. he likes thiel and thiel wants to live forever. he channels the immortal spirit of capital through him like a fever

maybe he's just not very good at transhumanism, since for him everything dies in the end in a meltdown. or he's better at it than cliche readings

i really don't know what i'm saying anymore tbqh

>>9554733
But what has he himself done to personally accelerate reality other than copying odd words from a thesaurus into tl;dr essays?

>>9556735
he's into posthumanism

>>9556906
Drawing attention to a phenomenon only hastens its realization in hyperstitional terms. Plus he's spent his career accelerating philosophy towards something outside the confines of academia.

>>9556687
Your right, he's a post scarcity Maoist, and his writing is schlock that only gets away with his shit because that viewpoint is that rare, so people view it as they view a novelty.

>Nick Land shits out another portion of obfuscatory muh accelerationism bullshit
News at 11

>>9556938
>Your right, he's a post scarcity Maoist
don't think so lad

>>9556929
Please explain the latter portion.

>>9556906
he's basically given us - in articles like the one OP shared - a concise definition of a largely unknown theory that didn't really exist before he came along. in part he's connecting different threads that were already there, and now he's trimming the corners and polishing up the edges and so on. so we have a word, a concept for this thing. not bad for a philosopher. a kind of zombie marxism where capital itself just needs to eliminate people. even ayn rand didn't go there.

negarestani is doing something similar, maybe going even further. usually we ask, okay, so what do we *do* about it? NL has suggestions for this too, many of which he cribs from Moldbug.

>>9556938
Maoist?

>>9556950
this...is NNN.

>>9556938
>so people view it as they view a novelty

That's exactly why i read is stuff, anon.
He's an incredibly memorable novelty, so it's still worthwhile remembering, In my opinion.

>>9557009
As weird and crypto-marxist Land is, he's one of the few philosophers that really dared to further advance and turn Marxism on its head just like Marx did to Hegelian Idealism, one of the philosophers today that are truly memorable and not utterly mediocre and superfluous.

>>9557064
Agreed 100%.

>>9557008
Land has consistently tried push philosophy into new territory, and break the grip that academic institutions have over it. This can be seen from his early years with the CCRU, which attempted to fuse philosophy with cosmic horror and cyberpunk fiction, the occult, and jungle music, all the way to his contemporary engagement with and legitimization of the blogosphere. On the latter point, his choice (?) to leave academia and work on the web represents a shift to a marketized, bottom-up approach to philosophy and political theory.

>>9557064
so he's a Hegelian
haha i'm jking

>>9555888
bump for help from a Land scholar

>>9557282
How do you qualify as a Land scholar?

>>9557345
I was hoping you'd be the Land scholar and help me find the passage I'm looking for.

>>9557089
>his choice (?) to leave academia
Eh... I don't mean this to disparage him, but he never really chose this. He was politely forced out of Warwick because of his increasingly incoherent behavior. More recently, he was pushed out of the New Centre for Research and Practice after a targeted campaign against him and the LD50 gallery.

How much are you paying the Chinese to viral market for you Land? Or is it one of the perks of the job?

>>9557988
cao ni ma

>>9557920

All the power to him, he's basically living what he preaches by accelerating himself right into schizophrenia.

>>9557988

He doesn't have to pay anyone to spread this since he's basically spot on the living schema of the 4chan collective mind.

>>9557920
Fair point. Regardless, the fact that he's done the bulk of his post-2000s theoretical work on the web is significant for the reasons previously outlined.

>>9554839
Sounds like a PKD novel

>>9558016
I guess I don't see "legitimization of the blogosphere" as anything important to his philosophy. He publishes books also (self publishes, Time Spiral and Urbanatomy are run by he and Anna Greenspan). He writes for magazines and newsites, at least those who are willing.

Sure he has a blog and a twitter, but so does any writer these days. If anything, he's more active online because of his exile from left-wing academia, or "the cathedral" as he calls it.

Listening to his lectures at the New Centre, you very much get the impression he'd rather be part of a traditional, institutional entity with it's community and back and forth of intellectual sparring and collaboration.

I actually think it's kind of sad the only places that will publish him these days are The Daily Caller and similar alt-right alt-lite types of online platforms. He shares very little in common with them or their type of writing. You can see from his Jacobite article how embeded he is in the post-structuralist tradition. It's that kind of dialog he deserves. Not whatever bland, anti-intellectual xenophobic user base that the Daily Caller manages to attract.

>>9558051
Where are his blog and twitter? All I can really find are mentions of his account being banned.

>>9558070
xenosystems.net
@Outsideness

>>9558051
>All political institutions are cyberian military targets.

>Take universities, for instance.

>Learning surrenders control to the future, threatening established power. It is vigorously suppressed by all political structures, which replace it with a docilizing and conformist education, reproducing privilege as wisdom. Schools are social devices whose specific function is to incapicitate learning, and universities are employed to legitimate schooling through perpetual reconstitution of global social memory.

>The meltdown of metropolitan education systems in the near future is accompanied by a quasi-punctual bottom-up takeover of academic institutions, precipitating their mutation into amnesiac cataspace-exploration zones and bases manufacturing cyberian soft-weaponry.

>To be continued.

-the final words of Meltdown. I think it's fair to say he sees the acceleration of academia (really all formalized institutions) into something new as desirable/inevitable. Also, he engages in plenty of back-and-forth sparring/collaboration with his fellow bloggers/tweeters.

>>9558070

Not that guy, but his blog and twitter are

https://twitter.com/outsideness?lang=en

http://xenosystems.net/

>>9558051

How can someone be too radical for academia? It's not even as if he isn't speaking their language. He's not a nazi or even a conventional right winger, and actually sounds a lot like a Marxist-turned-evil on crack, as well as the whole post-structuralist tools that academia loves to swing around like an enormous phallus. I agree with you, and his excomungation from the Cathedral says more about the state of contemporary academic inquiry than it says about him really.

Besides, it is a dangerous endeavour of him to pander (or at least downgrade his explanations) to the alt-right types, since he is pretty much also an antagonist to them, with all the technological doomsday machines and all the Deleuzian frenzy going around. I wonder if he came up with the name Dark Enlightnenment and realized how edgy it was and how much more teens he would lure from the conventional Right into becoming nihilist minions of the capital.

>>9558116
>How can someone be too radical for academia?
Its really the "Human Biodiversity" (HBD) stuff. It's essentially eugenics given a facelift, and most of the people active in it aren't shy about their irrational anger towards non-whites, even while they try to make reasoned arguments about genetics.

I understand why Land would feel the need to engage the topic, given how much Darwinism plays into his philosophy, but personally I can't help but feel there isn't enough time left to worry about the genetic make-up of humanity. It's a question that's going to be irrelevant, either through genetic technology or extinction.

His anti-immigrant, anti-globalist positions also ruffle feathers in academia. If it weren't for the HBD stuff though, he'd probably get a pass on this. Anti-globalism has enough advocates on the left.

From a "first order politics" it makes enough sense that he'd be pushed out of leftists institutions. It's just a shame those institutions are so focused on "first order" problems and not second order problems (aka philosophy of politics, ontology, epistemology etc).

That he was pushed out of Warwick makes plenty of sense, it's not exactly a radical university. What's the real shame is the New Centre cutting ties. As a pretty radical, online-only, space for contemporary philosophy and especially for accelerationism, it seems like a huge loss. Don't get me wrong, I think the New Centre is still doing interesting things, I just think it's a shame they caved to outside pressure from leftist activists who otherwise had little to no relation to the New Centre.

>>9558116
>Besides, it is a dangerous endeavour of him to pander (or at least downgrade his explanations) to the alt-right types,

Insofar as they share some common political goals, anti-immigration, anti-globalism, the alliance makes some sense. "Enemy of my Enemy" type thing. But yeah, I don't think NRx or Right Accelerationism has any long term potential within the alt-right, as it currently manifests itself within political power structures. Banon might have heard of Land, but I doubt he understood it.

>>9558116
>http://xenosystems.net/
What the fuck is this? There are so many links one gets easily lost

>>9558172
No kidding. I'm not sure what to make of it, seems like there's not much there...

>>9558172
>What the fuck is this? There are so many links one gets easily lost

scroll down, on the left side bar you'll find sections labeled Tag Cloud and Categories. You can browse posts by what intrigues. The top bar also has useful links. The rest of the left sidebar are links out to other people's sites.

I mean, it is a blog. Don't expect huge long essays. Look to his published books for that.

>>9558263
It's mostly Twitter shitposts lately. His Chinese handlers have requested that he stick to short posts because they were having difficulty understanding whether his longer diatribes were ideologically congruent with the Technocratic Capitalist Republic of China's party line.

Land has formally complied but his underground network of 50 Cent Army defectors to whom he has served as accelerationist prophet (and English teacher) have displaced his content within the comments under varying usernames. It's a matter for the savvy reader to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Regarding the English teacher part he seems to have been successful at least.

So isn't nickland the ex marxist who turned neo reactionary?

>>9555888

cool numbers

>>9558351
that's him

also bumping a good thread, as nick land threads often mysteriously are

>>9554839
hahah awesome Nick Land posts on /lit/

synchronicity: i just found out about Land yesterday. i'm going to try to pirate Phyll-Undu bc it looks dope and similar to what i am trying to do with my writing only instead of nihilism and amphetamine psychosis i am trying to channel paranoia and conspiracy theories

>>9558351
>in cold blood
killing kings is self-defence

>>9554733
I tweeted to Land whether he likes Death Grips or not and he hasn't responded yet.

I want you guys to take a look inside the following link, and compare it to the OP:

http://www.publicmedievalist.com/dark-enlightenment/

Now, I have read his stuff that are specifically about Dark Enlightenment. In no moment I made the gross misinterpretations that the link claims. What do you guys make of it? Personally I think calling it anti-Enlightenment instantly blocks people off into thinking you must then be a conventional Right thinker (wtf I can't even), and it's amazing how much people are oblivious to what the capital does to them, even when Land writes it as crystal clear as he does for the case of his DE stuff.

>>9558432

Being in Shanghai, he is probably having a hard time scooping up the drugs he needs to actually get into the music and ascertain its transcendental value.

>>9554733
> The profound institutional crisis that makes the topic ‘hot’ has at its core an implosion of social decision-making capability. Doing anything, at this point, would take too long.

"wow i bet no one has ever thought that before haha"

>accelerationist

stopped reading right there

You know when the ideas are bullshit when people send more time talking about the person.

>>9558449
that's a good link anon, thanks for contributing

Thinking that DE is anti-enlightenment is weird. If anything, it's pro-Enlightenment in the sense of going back to Austrian economic sensibilities but without the cozy warmth of bourgeois prosperity dialled up to eleven. On the recent Red Ice interview NL himself was saying how debased the concept of classical liberalism has become. He's just unique in having digested Marxism so fully that he wound up siding with capital itself in the end against the working class (which is under postmodernism a completely new entity that bears little to do with classical Marxism).

Of course, there are other anti-Enlightenment guys, like Brett Stevens and others, who push for a more ethnat dimension. Land gets along with them well enough, but his overall project isn't ethnat at the core. He just thinks that sovereign states with particular cultural characteristics are ultimately more conducive to capitalist progress - that is, the progress of capital itself - than for serving alt-right ideas of mannerbund for their own sake, and so on. Again, it's the kind of stuff that makes Land more interesting than most other counter-mainstream figures or culture critics, and what makes the new right so divided. But everyone here already knows most of this already, I figure. And he does write well. As has been said before, he's in his own way more Marxist than most of his opponents in taking the side of an autonomous capital against labor, and drawing the rest of the political/cultural/social conclusions from that. No wonder he lives in China, though, going that hard against the current climate is hard even for a guy like Peterson, who was built to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous social justice fortune. And the left even turns upon Zizek from time to time, and he seems to be joking about his love for Stalin more and more frequently.

But yeah, it's too bad that one of the most interesting English philosophers of his generation has to basically live in exile and relative obscurity in China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAT14h5_lMo

>>9558626
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIWUMkKZhus

>>9558635
omfg my abs are on fire, those last couple sniffs before it went full chipmunk fuckin killed me man

>>9558351
There's nothing about him that's neo-reactionary imo.

He's just taken leftism to its most absurd (logical?) conclusion.

>>9558665
>He's just taken leftism to its most absurd (logical?) conclusion.

No, I really have to disagree. The Patchwork is definately a reaction against the leftist, global multicultural utopia. Land is definately a reactionary, in the original sense of the word, of being against the modern political movements of Democracy and Internationalism/Globalism.

He wants micronations, the patchwork is a political enviornment in which states act like corporations, are bought and solid, liquidated and created anew. The Patchwork is not an "order", a top-down hierarchy of systems of governance, it is a bottom-up approach.

In that sense, Land has a lot in common with Libertarians. I was listening to his 'Outer Edges" lecture series at the New Centre, and mainy of texts used are Libertarian and Anarchist political scientists.

>>9558673
Agreeing with this. Might as well add one of NL's own definitions here:

>A model Neoreactionary State is a rationally-organized sovereignty-services corporation. Period.

>>9558687
>A model Neoreactionary State is a rationally-organized sovereignty-services corporation. Period.
All states are sovereignty-services corporations. As for 'rationally organized', I see no reason to believe that any state shaped on Landian lines would be any more rationally organized than the typical state.

>>9558673
I don't get why Land is against immigration and globalism. Immigration is the fodder that drives modern capitalism, and globalism is what allows it to spread, raising the market to mythic status, and destroying all semblance of democracy (see China, Greece and the Eurozone crisis)

>>9558913
What makes you say that globalism and the market have destroyed "all semblance of democracy" in China? Seems quite the opposite to me. China is no liberal democracy, but it's closer to being one than it was in Mao's day.

And so we find, like Astronaut in the centrifuge, to have turned the speed of the cycles too high- subsequently being torn from the chair by the g force with such momentum that we rocket into actual space, before we are prepared

>>9554733
this is no end to capitalism
we're near the end of debt/deficit economy

>>9558817
>All states are sovereignty-services corporations
Wrong.

>>9559034
yes

>>9556564
to be fair this isn't Land's idea
a lot of contemporary Marxists (Post Marxists maybe I can't remember) realise capitalism's "crises" are not crises at all rather just an opportunity to restructure

>>9559392
yeah, that's basically the only difference between them and Marx

>>9558626
No, that link is god awful. Vapid pontification.

I should start by saying that I don’t really have the background in philosophy to go deep into the historical ideas behind Land and accelerationism and that the essay in OP is my first reading of Land.

One of this first things that struck me about the first few paragraphs was the similarity between his idea that there is some increasingly self-aware, minimally intelligent parasite thriving in the shadows and Colin Wilsons novel “The Mind Parasites.” In Wilson’s book, the protagonist discovers that since the beginnings of civilization a parasitic “organism” has grown in number while simultaneously infecting the deep subconscious of the human mind. The goal of the parasites was to steer human endeavors to ever grater excess and depravity in order to feed off the inevitable wake of misery. It’s a great book and Wilson does a great job of developing the idea, but I’m not sure that I can accept the fantastical notion that capitalism has become self aware. I have a feeling Land is being more literary and metaphorical than anything else.

Next, his idea of time compression falls flat to me. The notion that the speed of technological advancement is changing how we make decisions seems to be widely understood. The elderly persons that report the nightly news acknowledge that we can barely keep up with what is happening when they report on technology and social media.

Finally, I’m not really sure what he thinks were accelerating towards. I can gather that he thinks its either a technological singularity or the post-revolution egalitarian utopia. I doubt that either scenario is likely, but why run towards either one? Is he saying that humans or humanity should jump of the cliff just to jump or does he just want to see what’s down there?

Sorry for the long post, I just thought his ideas were marginally interesting and worth getting into.

>>9559798
technology isn't really "speeding up" though, the internet and telephones are both old technology, they've just been incrementally updated, the technology explosion of 100 years ago has not been matched since, accelerationism is for historylets

>>9559818
Prett much. While scientific progress is still going, technological progress is stagnating into shit thanks to anti-militarism and sleepwalking elites in the West.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/saving-science

>>9559818
Tech is speeding up. Human needs stay the same. There's been an absolutely insane amount of disruptive tech and new science in the last 60 years. Saying that modern mobiles are just a series of incremental upgrades to Bell's telephone just outs you for tech illiterate brainlet.

I've noticed a recent untick of articles directly attacking Land, do academic philosophers really feel that threatened by blog philosophers? I didn't think so until somebody made a decent post explaining that a vast majority of academic philosophers are going completely unread, literally receiving zero views, meanwhile Land reaches thousands upon thousands of views with zero effort on his part with many of those having a actual serious interest in his philosophy.

>>9559798

He is being much less allegorical than you assume. If you are as willing as he is to more or less ignore claims to psychism being a precious absolute reserved for "higher beings", i.e, carbon based lifeforms, then you can admit just about any machine or collection of machines becoming self-aware with just enough automation going on.

He does away with the notion that we are protagonists in the emergent effect of the capital. Emergence is defined as a collective effect that does not depend on the particular properties of each composing unit in a system, i.e, if capitalism is an emergent effect of humans being around, it does not depend on any particular humans. It does, however, depend on humans being there in large numbers for the effect to appear, much like consciousness apparently depends on a brain.

His claim can be simplified then to mean (though I'm not sure he would agree with this himself): just like we can potentially upload our consciousness into some other platform, becoming a new state, that does not depend on our brains to thrive, so can, and will, capitalism transfer itself to a new system once our capacity of expanding it has grinded to a halt.

In this way, time compression and the direction we are going become crystal clear to everyone: the capital, not us, is heading as fast as it can towards its version 2.0, and we don't really know if that version will have humanity included in the package at all.

>>9559818

The only way to fathom just how fast things are speeding up is to partake in actual research or actually be close to someone who does. The internet is old and it took dozens of years for it to be established as a common trope in our lives, whereas newer applications go from research to production in a matter of months. It IS a feature of accelerationism that things are incrementally updated rather than built from the ground. Where do you even draw the line between a new invention and an incremental one anyway?

I also have no idea what "the technology explosion of 100 years ago has not been matched since". I think you are conflating accelerated technological development with abundance of basic and fundamental, theoretical research. 100 years ago we were coming up with quantum mechanics and general relativity was nearly fully laid out. However it took many years for quantum mechanics to develop into computers, let alone develop into quantum computers. And now quantum computers are in pre-sale before even going out of the lab, because capitalists are that much sure of how fast they are able to develop theory incrementally into something workable. I cannot stress this enough, there was no such explosion like we have now, what we can claim, and it's a very valid claim, was that all the groundwork (quantum mechanics) which did NOT become applied immediately at that time, was done 100 years ago.

>>9559798
>but I’m not sure that I can accept the fantastical notion that capitalism has become self aware

It hasn't, at least not yet, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that a future near-omnipotent super-AI could be subtly influencing the present to bring about its creation.

>>9559918
Answered your own question really. Land talks about things that bother people. Nobody is really interested in reinterpretation of Hegel's body of work.

>>9559918
Link to post? Did you paste it?

>>9559862
>Bell's telephone
Nice try, ameritard

The telephone was invented by Italians, Innocenzo Manzetti first and Antonio Meucci then.

>>9559928
good post senpai

>>9559798
>I can gather that he thinks its either a technological singularity or the post-revolution egalitarian utopia
Land is anti-egalitarian. He thinks that the singularity will be a nasty affair that'll probably end up with the creative destruction of humanity itself.

>>9559938
First telephones available for public use were Bell's invention. There's no need to be assmad ledditor.

>>9559862
there hasn't been anything as disruptive as the automobile, telephone, radio, film, airplane, refrigerator, etc. all inventions from the first half the of the 20th century, wow so now our phone is in our pocket instead of stuck to the wall and can have video instead of just voice...oh but video is just another iteration of film and wireless tech is just another iteration of radio, sorry, you can't think, have a nice day

Anybody else find themselves at a near constant disappointment of Land's influences? Spinoza makes me want to become a Catholic out of pure spite for rationalism.

>>9557064

>turn Marxism on its head

What would this look like?

>>9560048
To side with the capital against the proletariat or the people, and embrace capital as a thing in itself, a new kind of being.

>>9559982

Oh c'mon, just because you don't feel personally disrupted by years of medicine, engineerig and AI advancement doesn't mean it's not disrupting society as a whole. There are things being invented today solely for the background ops, for things you will never even come close to seeing, such as server management and data acquisition. The very reCAPTCHA system you use and give no credit to was developed dozens of years ago, and even people with internet in Africa have access to it. How much time did it take for TV to reach hillbillies?

Revolutions are dead, but the engine of progress is turning ever faster inside a black box which is unavailable to most.

Singularity - rapture for Nerds. Yes, humanity will end probably within a few hundred years. But the reason will not be Skynet but 3rd world overpopulation, pandemics or wars.

>>9560037
What, Deleuze, Guattari, Lovecraft, Marx, Foucault, Kant, Gibson, Delio?

No, these are all things I'm interested in. If anything, I'm always surprised he never seems to mention Baudrillard in his seminars or books. Seems extremely relevant, if a different take on it all.

>>9559982
>automobile
>wow so now our carriage is pulled by a combustion engine instead of horses and can go 60kph instead of 10kph
>airplane
>wow so now our car is in the air instead of stuck to the ground and can go supersonic instead of 60kph
>radio, telephone, film
>wow so now the information we want to transmit is in the electromagnetic waves/chemical slides instead of ink on paper and can go faster than mail service
>refrigeration
>wow so now we can buy food once a week instead of going to the shops every other day and keep it fresh longer
top yourself contrarian cretin

>>9559928
>so can, and will, capitalism transfer itself to a new system once our capacity of expanding it has grinded to a halt.

>capital, not us, is heading as fast as it can towards its version 2.0, and we don't really know if that version will have humanity included in the package at all.

This is all fairly easy to understand from what has been posted thus far. I'm not sure it is as interesting or novel an idea(s) as it appears to to be. We all have an implicit understanding that systems change, evolve and give rise to new systems (I don't mean to imply that this is a linear and progressive process of improvement) - capitalism is no different.

Also, why attempt to accelerate the process? Is it even possible to attempt to accelerate the process since the individual is insignificant? He is also making the big assumption that exponential acceleration is even possible and problems like resource allocation, technological hurdles and violent geopolitics are all surmountable problems on the way to "version 2.0."

>>9559962
In the article he distinguishes between right and left acceleration and their goals, but he's not clear about his vision for the end of time.

>>9559930
When he's talking about capitalism becoming self aware I don't think he's talking about AI

>>9560091
His book was actually on Bataille. 'Thirst for Annihilation'.

>>9560037
But Bataille is top based, anon.

>>9560114
>why attempt to accelerate the process
Land wants to see it unfolding faster before he croaks, why.
>Is it even possible to attempt to accelerate the process since the individual is insignificant?
The individual is impotent, but there are huge arrays of laws, regulations and barriers standing in the way of capital, that is the responsibility of an accelerationist movement to topple. Change itself is inevitable, but the speed at which it goes isn't.
>He is also making the big assumption that exponential acceleration is even possible and problems like resource allocation, technological hurdles and violent geopolitics are all surmountable problems on the way to "version 2.0."
This is where neoreaction comes in, a kind of ideology meant to build a stable cocoon so that the version 2.0 of capitalism can be completed. Order, for Land, is something that must be wrestled out of nature and carefully mantained.

>Land is accelerationist because he thinks itself become a Lovecraftian robot orgy
>Commies are accelerationist because they believe it will become commie utopia
>Varg is accelerationist because he believes it will become white man permaculture primitivist paradise

So where are we going, lads?

>>9560174
Literally nowhere

edgy cunt with FOMO like a teen girl, absolutely pathetic. we all die, get over yourself.

>>9560179
This really. Accelerationist positions are motivated by little more than the realization that sociocultural change is a slow process, while humans have finite lifespan.

>>9560174
it will only get worse

>>9560178
>>9560204
Please be more specific.

>>9560202

unfortunately we will probably see a lot more of this when the online generations bodies begin to age, and starts to see mortality bleed in around the edges of their cellphone screen.

>>9560202
Things always change slowly until they don't. There are people who thought they were alright in the early 20th century and then had to endure two world wars and the soviet union.

We went from horse drawn buggies to dropping nukes in one or two generations.

Change is only speeding up.

>>9560215
>The Great War was unforeseen and unpredictable
>WW2 was unforeseen and unpredictable
>speed of tech progress as evidence for social progress
Does this pass as an argument in /his/?

>>9560215

not really, the dilemma marxists (including spergs like Land) have to deal with is most people do not want change, because modern western capitalism is an easy life. people do not go hungry, and the only way the current marxist academics can think to push for revolution is by creating a bunch of whatifisms. combine that with the growth of mass communication, marxists are frustrated when they dont see the rise of revolution anymore, primarily because teyde so detached in their ivory towers they dont see life is actually getting better for most of society.

>>9554839
hello
nico

>>9560215
>Change is only speeding up.

part of the reason the economy is so shitty is because change is NOT speeding up and there hasn't been any major innovation to grow the economy...try reading some books instead of watching pseuds on youtube

>>9560202
>t sociocultural change is a slow process

300,000 years ago humans evolve out of h. erectus.
8,000 years ago the Agricultural Revolution creates agrarian society, animal husbandry and cities and civilization
300 years ago the Industrial Revolution creates machine technology, automation, electricity, intercontinental transport and international global war.

I think the key point of Accelerationism is that Cultural/Technological change is happening at a rate faster than genetic evolution. Whatever inventions and changes are happening within culture, they're happening faster than our biology can react too. Thus why we are so poorly adapted to survive car crashes or bullet wounds or radiation.

In an object oriented ontology, Capital or Gnon or the entirety of the Techno-commercial project is adapting and changing faster than we are. Combine this with the noticable trend towards automation of labor and thinking, the Accelerationist argument is that Capital is moving towards replacing us and making us redundant to it's own automatic feedback loop.

>>9560215

listening to germans makes war inevitable, they are too autistic by nature. bismarck overestimated the capabilities of the state.

>>9560247
oh god get this pseud bullshit off of /lit/ take it to redit, pol, whatever

>>9560247

average human life is still only sixty to eighty years, men rarely see the fruits of their labor.

>>9557064
this desu f#m

>>9560260
>oh god get this pseud bullshit off of /lit/ take it to redit, pol, whatever

The only psued bullshit here is some need to ideologically cleanse "your" forum. What does it matter if people discuss something you don't believe? I see this attitude on the left and right, and it's just weak thinking. Philosophy is not some partisan game where you have to compete. Just go do your own thing anon.>>9560267
>average human life is still only sixty to eighty years, men rarely see the fruits of their labor.

I think this fact fits perfectly into accelerationist thought. Human lives are shorter than whatever evolutionary/technological process is occurring.

Accelerationism shouldn't be confused with Trans/Posthumanism though they're looking at similar problems and futures. In accelerationism, the human is eventually discarded in favor of the dominant species, Capital.

>>9560247
I wrote an essay about that when I was 13. No joke.

>>9560247
>genetic evolution
>our biology can react
What the fuck are you talking about? At least get a high-school tier grasp on what evolution is before engaging.
>hurr durr NRx bullshit capital as an autonomous actor spookery
This sounds like something an impressionable Marxist freshman would tell his buddies.

>>9560319
yes! all this shit is like the thoughts anybody who wasn't a retarded normie already worked through as a teen...it's kind of embarrassing really

>>9560319
That's because its extremely basic and common subject in philosophy and sociology

>>9560318
>The only psued bullshit here is some need to ideologically cleanse "your" forum.

and what literature are you discussing, sir? all i see are some weak attempts at virally marketing a fringe alt-right goofs youtube channel, kindly fuck off

>>9560346
Reaching levels of non argument never thought possible

>>9560358
>>9560260
Wait, I recognize this posting style, are you the anon who couldn't wrap his head around metaphysics in the Nrx thread?

>>9560358
>and what literature are you discussing, sir?

Well, the topic of the thread would be this recent article that OP shared:
http://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/25/a-quick-and-dirty-introduction-to-accelerationism/

>>9560358
>fringe alt-right goofs youtube channel

the youtube links I shared are from the New Centre for Research and Practice, which one of the few insitutions actually giving space to academics to 'do philosophy' as opposed to just teaching old theories. And while it does host many of the prominent accelerationist theorists, it is far, far from being alt-right. It's hard leftist, to the point where they recently cut ties with Land,

So, I don't know, maybe you can fuck off until you've read more of this thread and know whats going on.

>>9560373
Link to said thread?

>>9560360
>you're not taking my mental diarrhea seriously therefore I win
Again, I don't feel the need to engage in polemics with someone who has no idea what evolution is and why modern humans aren't a subject to it at all. Let alone on topic which is just a load of pseud wank wrapped in obfuscatory verbiage. Just wanted you to know how retarded you sound. Maybe read up on pigeon breeding or something.

>>9560397
>lol ur retard

>>9560397
I'll bite, anon, what is wrong with my conception of evolution?

We spend thousands of years evolving alongside dogs, trees, cows, snakes and bears and we have appropriately selected traits to help us deal with these external phenomenon.

Car Accidents, Nuclear Bombs and Bullets are invented and it seems quite clear we are not yet evolved to deal with these threats. You can imagine a thousand years of exposure to radiation or high impact collisions would natural select for humans who could best resist these dangers, but we don't have that time.

We're inventing dangers faster than we can adapt natural defenses.

>>9560406
>anime pictures
Not surprised.

>>9560414
Great, thread derailed.

>>9560395
Probably >>9559004

>>9560424
well then lets bring it back to Land's article, he puts it pretty succinctly:

"The basic.. ...schema is a positive feedback circuit, within which commercialization and industrialization mutually excite each other in a runaway process, from which modernity draws its gradient... As the circuit is incrementally closed, or intensified, it exhibits ever greater autonomy, or automation. It becomes more tightly auto-productive (which is only what ‘positive feedback’ already says). Because it appeals to nothing beyond itself, it is inherently nihilistic. It has no conceivable meaning beside self-amplification. It grows in order to grow. Mankind is its temporary host, not its master. Its only purpose is itself."

Hey Nick Land you fucking cyberpenis. I know you read this you narcissistic fucking fat ponce. You are turning yourself into a gimmick. None of the people who use your name as shorthand for accelerationism are reading your shit dude. It's all faggot fake libertarians and meme idiots online who are just using you to express some part of their ephemeral faggoty zeitgeist.

Your initial gestalt of capitalism as some kind of Schumpetery cybernetic mecha-Hegelian AI-Vernunft trying to birth itself or whatever the fuck is interesting, your "why contain it? s'cool" futurist ethics is the logical extension of that, but that's literally all you're getting known for. No one reads your shit. You just fortuitously tapped into the HAHA BUT WHAT IF WE !!!!DIDNT!!!! CONSTRAIN CRAPITALISM? WHAT IF THE AWAKENING COMPUTER GOD IS INEVITABLE? and you're reheating early 90s postmodern pastiche shit in your writing style and you know it.

Is that all you want to be known for you fuck? A single gestalt that gets you 15 minutes of fame from 20-year-old podcast-listening retards who can barely see it, and then only because they are dimly tapping into the same zeitgeist that you were when you worked it up into a full gestalt?

Don't stagnate in your 15 minutes of fame Nick Land. You will be a flash in the pan. Get off Twitter and come up with some new ideas. Jump this wall if you're so Deleuzian

>>9560441
But, he's not saying anything novel here. He's just restating what he's read in Marx he even goes on to quote Marx saying the exact same thing in the words of his time. Why should I read Land?

>>9560444
Absolutely this. Thirst For Annihilation and Fanged Noumena are both fantastic and some of the best works in contemporary philosophy, Nick needs to stop shitposting on Twitter and actually write another fucking book.

>>9560444
>15 minutes of fame
>has been running multiple popular blogs for 15 years
What did he mean by this

>>9560433
Ahah. The horrid capitalisation and anger is obvious.

>>9560444
Is this pasta?

can somebody clear this up for me. Are proponents of accelerationism like Land advocating for the intentional facilitation of it, or is the idea behind their talk of it simply pointing out that it is happening regardless of what we try to do?

>>9560451

land is what happens to disappointed marxists radicalised by psyops. deep down he probably dreams of a messianic saviour.

>>9560463
>multiple popular blogs

is this the new "i'll have you know lacanian psychoanalysis is very popular in parts of south america"

>>9560463
>popular blogs
>not 15 minutes of fame

ok lad

>>9560483
>>9560474
Obvious samefag

>>9560473
>>9560473
>can somebody clear this up for me. Are proponents of accelerationism like Land advocating for the intentional facilitation of it,

There is a range of political positions within accelerationism. Right Accelerationism takes to a libertarian notion of "The Patchwork", a network of micronations, with the hope that decentralizing will allow something to survive, darwinism, etc etc.

Some on the left advocate for pushing it along, thinking that acclerationism leads to inevitable collapse of capitalist society. This is the old marxist notion of "dialectical materialism".

Some look at it more objectively and don't take a political position on it, as far as I can tell this is the "unconditional accelerationism": that Land talks about in his article, but I've yet to come across well developed arguments or essays on this topic, it mostly seems to be twitter memes and aesthetics.

>>9560457
I'm confused by this post, Land has only recently taken a break from publishing, Phyl-Undhu was published in 2014 and Chasm in 2015.

>>9560497

youre talking out of your ass and barely understand the topic

>>9560414
Humans are not subject to natural selection anymore and haven't been for quite a while. Selection is the prime force behind evolutionary process. There's also mutational drift, but it's irrelevant when talking in context of developing specific traits.

We create dangers yes, we also create defenses against those dangers and most importantly the tech progress overall has allowed the human species to flourish. We are defeating infant mortality, diseases and hunger. The population is booming, so saying "we have da bomb therefore tech is killing the human race" is a bit silly.

Also how the fuck is the disparity between the speed of evolution and tech progress an argument for anything at all?

>>9560504

whats confusing?, think about which demographic consider 2015 a long time ago.

>>9560504
>100 page kindle release
>an actual book

Admittedly Fanged Noumena was a collection of writings spanning two decades but that's hardly something, mister.

>>9560513

its the usual normie shit of noticing things and magically believing they support whatever dumb ass opinion they want other people to believe. its "the sky is blue so i am right" tier

>>9560511
feel free to enlighten me. Like I said, I don't understand the U/Acc position very well. They don't seem to want to make themselves very clear.
>>9560513
>Humans are not subject to natural selection anymore and haven't been for quite a while.

I think that may be another way of summarzing the accelerationist argument. Technological change has a larger impact on our society than genetic change.

what is Jacobite magazine

>>9560532
>Technological change has a larger impact on our society than genetic change.
That's not an argument that's a fact that is known to anyone who paid attention in school. What the fuck is accelerationism is then as you see it?

>>9560532

its just marxist pessimism

>>9560515
Your in a philosophy thread, In this field people have written entire 900 page books about a single sentence in a 20 page paper.

Nietzsche's Antichrist was only 100 pages long.

>>9558913
>I don't get why Land is against immigration and globalism

He isn't really. He is against stupid immigration, ie the European approach. See for example: https://twitter.com/outsideness/status/771352234831454210

>Singapore has an Arab Quarter. Nothing ever gets blown up. Minimal rapiness. Good government =/= ethnic homogeneity.

As for globalism he opposes it in political terms, because what he wants instead is a highly splintered world (patchwork). In economic terms it's obviously the opposite. This is not a contradictory position. For example:

>Capitalism will process-out economic nationalism

https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/830010305916702721))

>>9560564

example sentence?

>>9560564
My version of the antichrist was about 140 pages, but yes, i understand what you mean.

However, Nietzsche released pretty consistently.

regarding those 900 page books, the longest philosophy book i ever read was Kolakowski's Main Currents of Marxism and that was about much more than a single sentence unless if that was an Hegel joke or something and i'm just sperging out

>>9560582
>He isn't really. He is against stupid immigration, ie the European approach.
This.
>>9558913
If you read the first essays of Fanged Noumena it is clear he isn't against globalism and immigration. If he were, how could he live in Singapore?

>>9560513
>Humans are not subject to natural selection anymore

This is what leftists ACTUALLY believe.

Meanwhile, back in reality the IQ Shredders keep shredding:

www.pnas.org/content/113/28/7774
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886916308042
www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/05/25/1523592113.full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303038

>>9560513
>The population is booming
Only in Africa. Even shitholes like Bangladesh in Asia are stabilizing around a ratio of 2.1 women per children. Neo-Colonialism WHEN?

>>9560542
seems to be some high-IQ neoreactionary publication
Kantbot has a piece there under a different pseudonym
http://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/26/chapo-traphouse-will-never-be-edgy/

>>9560619
The first study literally supports my point, by pointing out slow selection based on educational attainment i.e. not a natural trait. Second study ties general intelligence to fertility rates, has nothing to do with nat selection. Third again reinforces my point by showing mating patterns rely on non-natural trait selection. And forth is virtually of no relevance at all.

5/7 for making me autistically waste time
take your brainlet contrarianism to /pol/ and get ass cancer, useless faggot

>>9560702
What the fuck is a non-natural trait? Read an evobio 101 textbook, anon.

>>9560661
The population boom has already happened in developed countries dingus.

>>9560709
>education attained
>natural trait
Just go away, please.

>>9560716
Do you think it's a metaphysical trait, or what?

>>9560718
no phds in the wild

>>9560711
You said that he population IS booming, in the present tense - which is correct, but only in the African continent. Get ready for ever-increasing waves of refugess if the situation stays the same as it is, or a Malthusian disaster.

>>9560716
Educational attainment as a trait is no less natural than a proficiency at hunting gazelles or absorbing sunlight. All of them are dependent on natural factors.

>>9560718
It's not an inheritable biological trait.

>>9560732
Except it is? There is some variation in the offspring, true, but that doesn't invalidate heredity.

>>9560722
What the fuck is "the wild"? Why do you think selection only happens in "the wild"? I imagine you think there's no agriculture, war, technology, etc. in "the wild" either, but obviously these things affect selection.

>>9560732
EA has an h^2 of ~.75, there's a vast literature on the matter: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=educational+attainment+heritability

>>9560742
damn are you really this stupid? i know there were always stupid people on /lit/ but it just feels after /pol/ became part of the republican party apparatus the amount of dummies around 4chan in general has really increased

>>9560724
>proficiency at hunting gazelles
It's not a natural trait, it's an acquired skill.
>dependent on natural factors
Everything you do is limited by your biological capabilities, that doesn't make your every achievement a biological trait, you absolute brainlet.

>>9560752
Not an argument.

>>9560755
what is role of epigenetics

>>9560752
You can't even provide an assertion to discredit my claim?

None

>>9560762
if you can't figure out that university degrees are a social construct and not something biological then you are too stupid to engage with, seriously.

>>9560230
Migrant crisis, climate change, automation and AI aren't unpredictable either yet here's some lad saying that change is slow.

>>9560755
Acquired skills can only complement our nature, they cannot change it. To state otherwise is to fall into delusion. A duck will not be a better hunter of gazelles than a lion no matter how hard he tries.

>>9560745
>literally poltardian 'the science has proved go read google'
You forgot the infographic. Intelligence is a heritable trait, educational attainment is entirely a societal issue.

>>9560770
Soccer is a social construct, do you think soccer ability is not heritable? This is a bizarre argument.

>>9560767
Correlation with what?

>>9560246
Self-driving electric cars and vat-grown meat soon. Should be a big shift.

>>9560763
Epigenetics is concerned with non-nucleotide-bound heritability, ie the inner mechanisms of evolution, has nothing to do with our topic. Again fuck off to pol with brainlet one-liners.

>>9560774
Biology can adapt itself as easily to social constructs, as long as they exert concrete pressures, as they can to any other sort of evolutionary incentive. An educational system of, say, an university that does not select for intelligence would be a poor system indeed.

>>9560777
>soccer ability is not heritable
It isn't, you absolute cretin. Biological parameters that ramify your abilities are heritable, not the fucking acquired skills of playing soccer.

>go on Nick Land's wikipedia
>in the "influenced" section there's a fucking dubstep producer

HACK
A
C
K

>>9560767
Totally out of context, I don't understand it.

>>9560794
Indeed, as you rightly pointed out selection occurs for intelligence, thus equipping further generations with better potential at attaining education. The actual attainment of education, though, is dependent on life choices and sociocultural circumstances.

>>9560785
With each other. Monozygotic twins with each other, dizygotic twins with each other, etc.

>>9560797
Look dude, just take a step back for a moment. Searching google scholar for "educational attainment heritability" brings up over 22,000 papers. There are two possibilities here:

1) Thousands of scientists across the globe have spent decades writing thousands of papers on nonsense.
2) You are wrong.

Which is more likely?

>>9560821
>Searching google scholar for "educational attainment heritability" brings up over 22,000 papers.

that doesn't mean they are confirming, they could all be saying it's bullshit, i'm sure if i search on google scholar for "jews did 9/11" it'll get a lot of hits

>retards who don't understand the difference between heritable and acquired characteristics use words like 'epigenetics' and try to argue evoscience
/pol and reddit are truly indistinguishable

>>9560821
>Searching google scholar
>Thousands of scientists
I'm not sure if this is satire or bait or you are genuinely mentally handicapped.

>>9559918
>a vast majority of academic philosophers are going completely unread, literally receiving zero views
Maybe they shouldn't have thrown in their lot with corrupt dying institutions. Take your cozy paychecks and fuck off.

None

>>9560837
>usually adopted children aren't very brilliant
>steve jobs
>jeff bezos
>a couple other dickheads i forgot

>>9560798
>people are responsible for who they influence
might as well shit on Bataille for influencing all those post-structuralist hacks then, you fucking brainlet

not only that, but he's a recent philosopher, who's only been writing since the 80s, do you expect him to have influenced Shopenhauer?

>>9560843
But they're of the same race of teir adoptive parents.

>>9560843
I don't know anon, jobs thought fruit juice would cure his cancer, he couldn't have been that smart.

>>9560843
>while posting this get a call from seattle
>dont know anyone in seattle so don't answer
>turns out it's amazon calling to let me know my package is outside

well just accelerate my shit right up! don't know when all the bad stuff is supposed to happen, but right now capitalism got me feelin' p comfy senpai

>>9560861
[pol]maybe he just didn't trust jewish medicine![/pol]

>>9560863
Amazon steals all your data and controls you like Big Brother. Good luck!

>>9560860
>Arab raised by Armenian-Americans
>Swede raised by a Cuban

uh ok if you use a very broad definition of white i guess

>>9560821
Ah sorry, I get it now. Interesting study. Having adopted children must really suck.

>>9560875
we willingly give them our data in exchange for discounted consumer goods

>>9560890
damn, now jeff bezos and the cia knows i like to get good deals on clif bars! fuck!

>>9560513
You can't step outside of evolution. Selection always happens.

>>9560899
>constantly considering Darwinism and being on /lit/
There's something wrong in you, why are you here? Try with /pol/ or /his/

>>9560927
Why do you think natural selection magically stops just because you have a smartphone?

>>9561012
>replies insisting on his two or three points to feel powerful
>barely see what the other is saying
>doesn't know how civil communication works
>doesn't ask for further details
>/pol/tard detected

>>9561048
>has whined about people being from /pol/ about 8 times in this thread
>no arguments

>>9561074
>doesn't ask for arguments
>just replies perpetuating his low-tier bullshit
>I won't give any argument

>>9561085
Why do you think humans are outside of evolution?

i love this lad

>>9561090
>keeps thinking everyone is against his point
>keeps being self-referential
>can't hold the conversation
>mfw

but seriously though, we can't let Landf have the nuclear codes

>>9560671
Kantbot not only fundamentally misunderstands the chapo bros and (at least some of) its listeners politics, but outs himself as a newfag.

The chapo dudes were either old goons or associated with ex-FYAD posters after they left somethingawful for twitter. For those newer to this site -- i.e. if you don't still browse with /frames because you never got used to the update -- 4chan, especially its contemporary culture, is downstream of SA. Pretty sure people there were making fun of MGTOW, and thus using terms like 'incel' and 'volcel' before the alt-right became really popular. Since the vol/incel thing is the only example Kantbot provides of how Chapo's allegedly leeching off the alt-right's countercultural capital or whatever the fuck this article's argument is, and since that claim is false, he just comes off as looking like a brainlet. That prose style doesn't help either. And the other argument he makes, that these people who unironically describe themselves as 'failsons' actually see themselves as cool, dumb and bad.

The notion that a bunch of unorganized left soc-dems and socialists are the leading edge of neoliberalism's opposition to the alt-right is farcical.

>>9561218
ozma fat

>>9561272
you're not wrong

>>9561272
old rich pool, suck my dick

>>9561218
Ayy, but weren't the left supposed to oppose neoliberalism? Times sure have changed, huh?

>>9561218
>The notion that a bunch of unorganized left soc-dems and socialists are the leading edge of neoliberalism's opposition to the alt-right is farcical.
It is, in a way.

>>9561314

>weren't the left supposed to oppose neoliberalism? Times sure have changed, huh?

which left are you talking about, and why was opposing neo liberalism their responsibility?

>>9561335
I can still remember all the whining the left did about neoliberalism and globalism pre-2008 - just look at the World Social Forum and the alter-globalization movement.

>>9561314
'The left' is a vague term which encompasses everything from neoliberals who pander to minority groups to maoist-thirdworldists and anarchoprimitivefags

>>9561364
Pretty sure that Varg and Guillaume Faye are right-wing anarchoprimitivists.

>>9561314
Neoliberalism is the establishment and constitutes, when paired with 'woke' identity politics, mainstream culture. Chapo opposes neoliberalism and its form of identity politics. Therefore, Chapo cannot be "the spearhead of the establishment’s ongoing effort to mitigate the damage done by the counterculturalists." Kantbot and whoever called this a high IQ magazine are both dumb as fuck, basically.

>>9561391
Which just reinforces the point that our political labels are overly broad and, without heavy qualification, functionally pointless.

>>9561350

which left are you talking about?

do you have a single independent thought in your meme addicted excuse for a brain?

>>9561391
>>9561364
Is the only difference between a left- and right-wing anarchoprimitivists whether they think a primitive world peaceful or violent?

jacobites were stupid as fuck, why would you name your site after them
"hurr bring back the king, we hate living in a free society reeee" dumbass hill people

>>9561409
People concerned with social justice in general - the scant remnants of Marxism in academia, many flavors of compassionate liberals who'd like to have the New Deal back, idpol progressives and people who are "conscious" about the "plight" caused in the thirld world by capitalism.

>>9561406
Pretty much. If it's useful for anything, neoreactionary ideas will be one of the hammers that can shatter this whole obsolete political system apart. It's just begging to split open like an overripe fruit.

>>9561419
I'm pretty sure that their overall idea is that democracy is more of a threat to a free society than a king. At least that's what I understood by reading Yarvin.

>>9561449
>I'm pretty sure that their overall idea is that democracy is more of a threat to a free society than a king. At least that's what I understood by reading Yarvin.

Wouldn't it have been better to name the magazine "Marie Antoinette"? A innocent reactionary woman who lived a Nietzschean lifestyle until Catholic Freemasons conspired against her.

>>9561419
1. Because it sounds like Jacobi, they're doing a thing.
2. Read Moldbug. Your idea of freedom is farcical.

>>9561449

>neoreactionary ideas will be one of the hammers that can shatter this whole obsolete political system apart. It's just begging to split open like an overripe fruit.

why do you think this? what is obsolete about "this whole political system"

>>9561449
>neoreactionary ideas will be one of the hammers that can shatter this whole obsolete political system apart. It's just begging to split open like an overripe fruit.
Anyone who wants to shatter the current political (and economic) system is a moron. It's the best political system that humanity has yet had. The chance that, following a shattering, the system that would replace it would be better is fairly low. Intelligent people understand that gradual change is where it's at. Revolutions usually just fuck things up without improving them.

>>9561364
Primitivism is post-left

>>9560174
well communism and ethnonationalism are deader than disco so...

>>9561569
small brain: shatter the system
lighting up: reform the system
galaxy brain: exit the system, build something better and become the city on the hill

>>9561647

>>9560174
>Nrx is accelerationist because they believe itself become a Anarcho-Monarchist Techno-primitivist Evolan cult

>>9560732
>it's a /his/ tries biology episode

>>9561548
Liberal democracy was never built to be an end in and of itself - it was only ever meant to be a way to adjudicate between disparate groups a national project. The deleterious effects of identity politics, societal atomization and denial of any kind of universalism have produced an utterly gridlocked system whose elites are visibly sleepwalking off a cliff of national debt and social disintegration (skyrocketing of divorce and single mothers in America for example - crime is only kept at bay by the hugest prison system ever seen in history, as well as utterly mediocre economic growth and perpetual political gridlock in the EU, which the English are wise to get away from). A crisis like we had in 2008 will completely and utterly fuck over the global economy this time - but without the semblance of a national unity and with utterly incompetent liberal elites, no such thing like the New Deal will be possible to placate the masses.

>>9561569
You're right, the best choice would be a transition to localism, a softer version of the Archipelago, away from massive bureaucratic centralization that gets little done and alienates citizens from their communities.

>>9561542
>our freedom is not actual freedom
>then we must go back to authoritarian states
wew, great logic

>>9561648
You can't "exit" the system anymore than you can change your biological gender. You are a creature rooted in reality, and rooted in history, whether you well like it or not. The set of behaviors that human beings can engage in and still mantain a coherent society with is necessarily pretty small.

>>9561765
By exit I mean something like the founding of America, not some impossible flight from humanity.

>>9561765
Stupid post desu.

>>9561721

>buzzwords strung together in any what way with no semblance of context or understanding

sad

>>9561765

its actually very easy to escape modern society, just not very desirable

>>9561913
Elaborate.

>>9561929
How is it easy when all the land is owned by someone?

>>9561925
I've already put forth my argument as to why today's political system cannot hold at the center, and why it's so vulnerable to a disturbance that in earlier times we could have managed to hold off. My very own humble solution to the problem is an emergency surgery, the amputation of massive centralized bureaucracy and greater autonomy to local states in massive nations such as America, until we can figure out something better to do. Both political parties in America utterly hate the other, and Americans have increasingly less in the way of shared values, so why not leave every state to its own?

>>9561946
>owned by someone?
Some people. Plural. Some of them are willing to sell.

>>9561946

>being this much of a shut-in

go outside, little brainlet

>>9561946
I've been listening to the Outer Edges seminar that Land did at the New Centre. This is a key point of discussion, a few of the ideas they've discussed so far are Seasteading (making islands/floating structures), buying land from sovereign nations, and also the "liquidation" of failed states. This last bit is kind of interesting, the maintain contention being whether the leaders of failed states are rational enough to take a buy out: Can you actually convince Assad or Kim Jong Un to sell their territory and retire wealthy in Moscow or Beijing or something.

But yeah, the main thing preventing the patchwork is that nation states still see their power tied to territory and the natural resources contained within.

>>9561952

what "disturbance" are you talking about?

>>9561971
A huge economic crisis on the scale of the 1930's depression. FDR's programs didn't help the nation very much until America's entrance into WW2, but the public was still willing to stand by him. Is there any politician in America today that the majority of the public is willing to stand by?

>>9561975

Please, tell me more about this imminent "huge economic crisis"

>>9561985
If crisis are inherent in the capitalist system, and there have been no visible fixes to the financial system since the 2008 crisis, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that it may happen yet again, and since the BRICs are increasingly spent in development potential (hell, there's talks of "early desindustrialization" in India, and Brazil has gone from recession to EU-levels of economic growth), there'll be no place left to absorb the shock and keep the global economy rolling.

>>9561883
Just make sure you don't tell America

>>9562014

nigga you don't even know how the financial system works, what happened in 2008, or why. you're a clown parroting memes from facebook. a moron dripfed from the rotten teat of mass media

how do communists feel about a future in which much of manking consists of obese people connected to virtual reality helmets while robots do most of the jobs?
Do they admit the possibility of Capitalism killing itself/making itself obsolete, for it to be replaced by something else that is not socialism or communism?

>>9562041

if you think the future is about obese people in vr helmets that says a lot more about you and the way you live your life and the people you surround yourself with, desu

>>9562036
Yeah, sure, there was the whole pressure on the banks to give credit to people who couldn't pay it and Bush's programme for Americans to get homes on easy credit, and a whole host of other factors. Still, I'm just taking a basic and probable problem that the American political system, as it currently stands, won't be able to face in any form to illustrate my point that we're hanging from a hair's breadth from, at worst, something like a Syria collapse. There've been an awful lot of people getting assault weapons lately...

>>9561218
none of chapo trap house posted on something awful

>>9560671
Funny how Frog Twitter gets mad about Weird Twitter stealing their memes when they're both just the detritus of the detritus of FYAD.

>>9561218
MGTOW don't really use the word "incel". They call people like that TFLers and claim that they can't be real MGTOW because virgins always renege on MGTOW philosophy as soon as the chance of pussy becomes available

>>9561965
>Can you actually convince Assad or Kim Jong Un to sell their territory and retire wealthy in Moscow or Beijing or something.
I seriously wonder why the US government doesn't try doing this.

>>9554733
what the FUCK does this babble even mean?

>>9560859
Shopenhauer should have seen him coming

>>9561335
the labor movement, presumably

Nick Land threads are the best

>>9561330
If they just accepted that multiculturalism has failed and adopted literally any position other than NO PERSON IS ILLEGAL/THE KNOCKOUT GAME DON'T REAL, they'd win, but they're insulated, solipsistic bourgeois shitheads who refuse to critically examine their beliefs and consider the possibility that mass immigration and some aspects of the Civil Rights act have made poor and working class white people's lives miserable.

By the way, we're not talking about autistic anime Nazis flipping out that a black man was in Star Wars. We're talking about struggling, economically vulnerable people who don't have to option of exploiting zoning laws and sending their kids to "good schools" or even just uprooting their lives and moving somewhere else when their neighborhood goes to shit. Violence, cultural anxiety/alienation, and economic displacement are every day reality for these people, and even those on the left who don't outright wish for their deaths still think that the fact that they don't their wives and daughters to be raped and killed, or lose their jobs and livelihoods, or become strangers in their countries, all these are "spooks" or at least a sort of false-front for economic anxiety.

You don't even have to deport millions of people or create a white ethnostate or anything to fix this problem, but most likely, those will be the only solutions that will be offered because the left and everyone other than the far, far right, not just neoliberals, considers modern self-flagellating liberal views on race to be inviolable part of their ideology.

>>9560444
>>9560457
>>9560504
>>9560515
>>9560564
Hey guys, got some good news... Land has been writing a book for the past 5 or so years and it is on Bitcoin and Time. It will be the biggest thing he has ever written.
How do I know this information? He told me himself...
If you don't believe me then just wait a couple of months until he publishes it.

>>9564242
damn that sounds interesting

>>9564242
sounds cool if that's true

>>9563163
agreed

>>9564274
>>9564325
Yeah I think it sounds super interesting too. He told me (direct quote): "Time is the only real philosophical topic I think"...
Fascinating indeed. For him it all goes back to Kant and transcendental critique. Whenever anyone thinks about 'time' as an object then they are doing metaphysics. Land wants to think about time both non-metaphysically and non-linearly. So time is 'happening' to us as much from the past as it is from the future. Hence why he thinks AI has already been created in the future and we are feeling the after/before effects of it.
It sounds whack but in an odd way it makes sense.

>>9564358
>time is the only real philosophical topic

I agree. And that thesis doesn't sound crazy to me at all (which means I've probably already lost a good chunk of my mind anyways...sigh). I've been following Land for a while now, haunting /lit/ threads and so on and I think he's brilliant. Very cool that you got to talk to the man. Hope he puts that book out soon. Although there are enough of his lectures on YouTube about it to keep me busy for a while in the meantime.

One of the things about Land that I think is interesting is how he basically does this important task of uncoupling humanity from the process of capital, perhaps so that we don't revolutionize ourselves to death with our best intentions. This is actually one of the things I think is, in this weird way, liberating about his thought: many Marxists and Marxist-influenced thinkers understand fully how "alien" or unnatural this autonomous, self-replicating phenomenon of capital is, but I actually think Land's separation of capital from humanity is illuminating...guys like Zizek or Lyotard and so on, Freudo-Marxists, have shown how much the unconscious is pegged to capital, but then Land paints this darker picture of the unconscious as something which doesn't even belong to humanity...it's dark as hell, but for me at least I find it interesting, maybe as a reminder not to get carried away by The Feels and so on.

Whatever tho. I'm just rambling here. You've probably read Negarestani too...what are your thoughts on him?

So... Saint Nick on our 4cc roster when?
https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//lit/

There is little more joy knowing that whatever lefty-/lit/ moans about in regards to the right, it will never have a figure as interesting as Land associated with them.
/pol/-creep is real and its already infected /lit/, the future will have a right-wing avant-garde take over what is essentially a board that perpetuates white, leftists champagne socialists.

>>9564491
this 100%

>in a progressive society, the most radical position is a conservative one

https://home.isi.org/sites/default/files/MA58.4_McWilliams.pdf

>>9564491
I prefer Jordan Peterson

>>9564491
Progressivism as become so mainstream that you really can't be leftist and avant-garde any more desu.

Well, I quite enjoyed this thread. Hopefully we'll have another soon.