/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General

[Anonymous No.9548752]

Durdane Edition

Vintage Treasures: The Durdane Trilogy by Jack Vance
>https://www.blackgate.com/2015/09/12/vintage-treasures-the-durdane-trilogy-by-jack-vance/

Speculiction...: Review of The Durdane Chronicles by Jack Vance
>https://speculiction.blogspot.com/2014/05/review-of-durdane-chronicles-by-jack.html

Pointless Philosophical Asides: A Long Post About Jack Vance's Durdane
>https://philosophicalasides.blogspot.com/2009/11/long-post-about-jack-vances-durdane.html

Fantasy
Selected:
>https://i.imgur.com/r688cPe.jpg
General:
>https://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg
Flowchart:
>https://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg

Science Fiction
Selected:
>https://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg
>https://i.imgur.com/IBs9KE8.jpg
General:
>https://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg
>https://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg

NPR's Top 100 Science Fiction & Fantasy Books:
>https://i.imgur.com/IJxTQBL.jpg

Previous Threads:
>>9543080
>>9535547
>>9526856
>>9520188
>>9512340
>>9500197
>>9490993
>>9479905

[Anonymous No.9548807]

first for WEAPONS

[Anonymous No.9548836]

>>9548752
I've been buying a lot of paperbacks recently for summer reading. What books are everyone reading this summer/what ever season your country is in right now?

[Anonymous No.9548880]

third for wolfe-kun

[Anonymous No.9548887]

>>9548836
I'm going to attempt to tackle The Culture, and after that maybe Wolfe. After the random chaos of last summer it's nice to have some big series/chunky stuff ahead of me

[Anonymous No.9548897]

I just started The House on the Borderland and am having trouble visualising the "chasm" they encounter before they come the lake and the house. Is it just a big sort of split in the Earth, appearing seemingly out of nowhere?

[Anonymous No.9548939]

>Alp is a warrior from 9th-century Earth who, at the moment he should have died, instead is kidnapped into the future. There he finds himself participating in a sort of live-action Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. The game, controlled by an enigmatic Game Machine, is a recreation of the history of Earth's great Steppe empires; and winning the Game is Alp's only alternative to being exiled back into the past, and the death that awaits him.

Why have I never heard about this before?

[Anonymous No.9548948]

Tonight I read Clark Ashton Smith's The City Of The Singing Flame (1931), which as good an account of inter-planetary travel as I have ever read. The narrator is a weird fiction author who is hiking in Crater Ridge, California, where he reaches two unusual-looking rocks. When he steps between them, he is transported to another world of an amber sky, violet grass, monolith-lined pathways, and a city of large red stone in the near distance. The story is written in the form of journal entries that are found by a fellow author. Clarke depicts an alien world full of unusual beings and phenomena that is evocative of irresistible yet foreboding promise for the narrator, most of all the singing flame which is the seductive centrepiece of the story. There are many Lovecraftian tropes in here, but CAS's prose is unlike anything from Lovecraft; more visual, exotic, pleasingly rhythmic and felicitous. Five dinosaurs out of five and two thumbs up, everyone should read.

[Anonymous No.9549163]

>Finished WoT two months ago
>Still not over it
Yeah quality dipped in the middle but man oh man, what a ride. I need something else to obsess over, any suggestions?

[Anonymous No.9549186]

>>9549163
Malazan
Prince of Nothing
Sanderson's interconnected Cosmere Series

[Anonymous No.9549187]

>>9548939
Because it's by an awful writer?

[Anonymous No.9549197]

>>9549186
Malazan is a safe bet, and I should probably get around to reading Mistborn instead of biting my nails waiting for Oathbreaker to come out. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.9549207]

Daily reminder to only read wolfe

[Anonymous No.9549214]

I'm enjoying fourth mansions, getting this lathe of heaven vibe from it. What are some other trippy scifi books?

[Anonymous No.9549215]

>>9548836
Right now I've got the first three Lt. Leary books by David Drake from the library. After that I'm planning on reading the Iraq+100 story collection.

[Anonymous No.9549265]

>>9549186

Seconding Sanderson's stuff. I'd recommend starting with Stormlight, or possibly Warbreaker.

[Anonymous No.9549341]

What's The Waking Fire like?

I liked Blood Song so much I read it multiple times and hated the followups so much I barely made it to the end of them.

Did Anthony Ryan get any better at multipov or is it awful?

[Anonymous No.9549431]

Prince of Nothing is fucking spectacular so far, lads. Almost through Warrior Prophet, and I'm loving the voyage to squash heathen scum with a sociopath, an overcompensating homo, and a fat wizard.

Am I supposed to take the gritty parts seriously, though? They just end up making me laugh.
>plot point of Cnauir being a homo comes up in the first book
>seems to get dropped
>he's banging chicks
>figure his tribesmen just called him a fag for the bantz
>suddenly realize he buttfucked Moenghus
I lost my shit.

[Anonymous No.9549452]

>>9549431
more like prince of reddit.

[Anonymous No.9549462]

>>9548948

[Anonymous No.9549473]

>>9549341
Ryan took a page from Sanderson's protege (powder mage), and made a world of blood junkies looking for a fix.
They shoot up/swallow the blood of dragons (diluted of course) to gain certain powers (like Sanderson did with mistborn).
It's about a team being sent into the interior to find a long lost, thought to be extinct dragon, whose blood is supposed to be the best fix of all.

[Anonymous No.9549480]

>>9549431
NOT EVEN WORTH IT TBQHF

[Anonymous No.9549485]

>>9548948
You found one of my favorite adjectives. Consider it backlogged.

[Anonymous No.9549495]

>>9549462
what does this even means

[Anonymous No.9549505]

>>9548948
good description. will read

[Anonymous No.9549508]

>>9549431
Take it in stride m8.

You have only scratched the surface.

[Anonymous No.9549520]

>>9549473
But is it good?

[Anonymous No.9549579]

>>9549485
Felicitous? CAS is that, he likes using unusual words, a bit like Gene Wolfe, and this might be infuriating in other authors but after finding the meaning you appreciate his word choices. More than Lovecraft, I think he cares about the sound and rhythm of sentences. I believe like Gene Wolfe, these stories are meant to be reread, too - but it's not as time consuming because he isn't a novelist.

>>9549505
>>9549485
The Penguin Classics volume is where I'm reading from. I'm still a neophyte to this author, but I'm beginning to suspect that he was a superior prose stylist, and a more visual writer than HPL. There is also some very interesting prose-poetry in here which has made me consider the possibilities of the form; single page pieces evoking distinct moods of elegy and pathos, by way of the imagery of fantasy, history and classical illusion. I know that we have aspiring authors in here and practicing writers in here, and this I say to you - write prose poetry and short stories first of all.

[Anonymous No.9549680]

Wolfe hu'akbar

[Anonymous No.9549684]

>>9549579
>Felicitous?
Yeah, you got me. I'd be stoked if I could get the timescape cover.

[Anonymous No.9549832]

Fucking kek this Powder Mage chapters
>Get released after court marshal
>Get recruited into the best mercenaries immediately after
>End up killing 5 people 20 minutes later


Fucking hell

[Anonymous No.9549882]

>>9549495
>meta meta meme is over your head
Just go back to redshit.

[Anonymous No.9549885]

>>9549520
Good is subjective. If you still want to read the (as another anon put it) "dragon safari" after that description, then go head.

[Anonymous No.9549887]

>>9549431
It gets even better.

Wait til the dickgirls show up.

[Anonymous No.9549898]

>>9549832
Wings of adam are faggets. Pumpkin soup loving faggot.

[Anonymous No.9549909]

>>9549887
>not wanting nubile tanned skinned traps
I bet you're a prize loving faggot. You probably wanna fuck that faggot at the end of the great ordeal.

[Anonymous No.9549935]

>>9549882
nigger, this thread IS reddit

[Anonymous No.9549938]

>>9548836
I just finished binging on The Wheel of Time.
It ran in a few places, but easily one of my favorite series I've ever read.

[Anonymous No.9549955]

>>9549163
>make post in thread about finishing wheel of time before reading thread
>see this post
my friend.
I'm probably picking up Malazan unless I find something else, but I heard that Malazan's characters die left and right and while it can thematically work, I just personally don't like that happening too often.
>>9549186
>sanderson's stuff
I actually picked up wheel of time because I liked Sanderson's other works, and since he was brought onto the series, i knew it would be good. Read first book, fell in love with Jordan's writing, read a few more books, realized the guy died before ending the series, felt sad that he died before.

[Anonymous No.9550001]

>>9549473
>They shoot up/swallow the blood of dragons (diluted of course) to gain certain powers (like Sanderson did with mistborn).
God fucking damn it.
Every fucking time this happens. I get a few ideas, decide to read a book, and the book does it already, frequently better than what I had in mind.

[Anonymous No.9550008]

>>9549955
I managed to do the impossible and get like 6 of my friends on the WoT train, and there was one glorious night a couple days after I finished it where 3 or 4 others had also finished it, and we spent like 4 hours flipping shit about EVERYTHING that happened in the series because of a general rule of not talking about the current book/arc before other people have read it.
>THE GREEN MAN AND THE EYE OF THE WORLD
>AGINOR MAKING MOIRAINE WAIL AS IF SHE'S DYING

>THE BATTLE AT FALME
>FUCKING BLOW THE HORN MATT, HOLY FUCK YOU BASTARD

>THE TROLLOCS WILL RENAME THE TWO RIVERS THE DYING LANDS
>MATT BECOMES BEST BOY AND THE ENTIRE SIEGE OF THE STONE OF TEAR

>HE WHO COMES WITH THE DAWN
>I DID IT! I CUT HIM OFF FROM THE DARK ONE!

>RAND HUNTING RAVHIN FOR MURDERING HIS GIRLFRIEND'S MOM
>NYNEAVE ENSLAVING MOGHEDIEAN
>RAND BALEFIRING RAHVIN SO FUCKING HARD HE'S NOT EVEN MENTIONED FOR 3 MORE BOOKS

>LORD OF CHAOS
>DUMAIS. FUCKING. WELLS

I could go one but fuck man, that was a great night.

[Anonymous No.9550053]

>>9550008
>Rahvin balefired so hard he's not even mentioned for 3 books
made me laugh.

THE FUCKING ZOMBIE TOWN WHERE IF YOU DIE YOU BECOME ONE OF THE DAMNED

THE BRAGGING CONTEST BETWEEN MAT AND RAND OVER WHO DID THE COOLEST SHIT
>RAND'S CLEANSING SAIDIN (which i had to reread because I completely missed the whole Shador Logoth hating the Dark One somehow)
>MAT'S RESCUING MORAINNE

BIRGITTE GETTING STABBED AND DYING AND THEN GETTING RESURRECTED (KIND OF) BY THE HORN OF VALERE(sp?)

>Siuan dying
>Gareth dying
>Gawyn dying
>Egwene dying
>COUNTING OFF WHO'S DYING NEXT
>LAN (almost) DYING
>THE DARK ONE MENTIONING LAN DYING BUT THEN HOLY SHIT WHAT HE'S ALIVE BECAUSE HE'S FUCKING LAN

RAND LIVES
>although i wonder if he has more kids they'll be his other body's blood, that could be kind of weird
>BUT HE LIVES ANYWAY


Wild ride indeed. I won't spoiler this because it's an over arching plot throughout the books, but I was really fond of how they handled his characterization with Lews Therin, and his overall demeanor throughout the books and his eureka moment on top of Dragonmount .

I really just liked everything about how Lews Therin was handled.
And how he was fucking right the entire time about Taim.

[Anonymous No.9550079]

>>9550053
I made it a specific point to tweet literally everything Lews Therin said to Rand in all caps just to let all my friends know how fucking ridiculous this shit was. I'm half convinced the only reason I manged to get them to read it is because I got drunk one night and flipped shit about this crazy man inside the MC's head who kicked Satan in the dick but turned insane as consequence.

>YOU SAID IT'D BE OVER, YOU SAID WE COULD FINALLY DIE

>WHO IS THIS MAN IN MY HEAD! WHY IS HE MAD!

>MY BODY! MY BODY! I CAN'T MOVE MY ARMS!

>KILL THEM ALL. DESTROY THEM. GUT THEM.

>THIS PLACE... THIS PLACE SCARES ME...
Lews Therin was fucking great.

[Anonymous No.9550104]

>>9549935
But I never used reddit and I'm one of the top contributors of memes in this general.

[Anonymous No.9550121]

>>9550079
On the subject of tweets, i found this transcript of an interview with sanderson, to get some more stuff fleshed out if you want / haven't seen it yet.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=874#22

[Anonymous No.9550122]

>>9550001
Everything has been done before faggot, it's all about presentation these days. An idea is shit unless you have a presentation to sell it.

[Anonymous No.9550141]

>>9550122
I am curious about 'everything'.
I mean, I heard it before, and i know what you mean, but surely not *everything* has been done.

I'm planning on making a town famous for their watermelon juice...

[Anonymous No.9550232]

>>9549898
>All those powerups suddenly

[Anonymous No.9550234]

>>9548836
Going to read Lyonesse and Wolfe. Maybe Le Guin also.

[Anonymous No.9550266]

>>9550104
TOP

MEMES

[Anonymous No.9550269]

>>9548752
Wait someone else has read Durdane? How odd, I only just finished like two weeks ago, never seen it mentioned. How did you find it OP?

Personally I enjoyed the first two books, but the whole presence of the Asutra/Ka conflict kind of ruined the fun for me.

[Anonymous No.9550407]

>>9548836
Going to read mainly sci-fi this summer. Some books by Heinlein and some by Vance. Also I'll finally take time to read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. And then some non-sffg books, probably local classics.

[Anonymous No.9550511]

>run a Heroes of Might and Magic/Age of Empires/Civilization campaign
>convert it to a different fantasy setting
write book upon book about an empire's rise, domination, and world conquest/fall

Why haven't you?

[Anonymous No.9550565]

So, I've checked the results of yet another Nebula season http://www.sfwa.org/2017/05/nebula-award-recipients-announced/ and they made me very sad. Basically, the Great Assault of SJWs on SFWA can be considered successful. Almost in every category the winners are women. In the novel category the only worthy nominee was Nine Fox Gambit written but yet another special snowflake gook.

And that space lesbian technofantasy space opera lost to the generic fantasy of Charlie Jane Anders. And these awards to Anders, McGuire, Amal El-Mohtar (the one who managed to kick Vox Day out of SFWA) shows the constant degradation of the winners of anglospheric awards. The only exeption was Ann Leckie just because she is simply a good writer who completely obliterates other graphomaniacs who now prevail in the genre.
Now, to win in the SFWA elections you absulutely don't need to be a good writer, in fact, it can even harm you, to win you need to be sociable and visit every -con possible. Also it's very preferable to have a fantasy with zombie-vapiric or (trans)gender flavours. The actual literary value of the work interests nobody.
We need to lock up every degenerate considering himself a sf-writer in a shed and than burn it and start all over again.

[Anonymous No.9550660]

>Tfw only super popular reddit shits get wikis with extremely detailed explanations

[Anonymous No.9550668]

Is The Island of Dr. Death any good? I haven't read any Wolfe yet.

[Anonymous No.9550683]

Any scifi or fantasy where the focus is more on exploration?
Maybe something like rendezvous with Rama.

[Anonymous No.9550685]

I'd start with Fifth Head of Cerberus or Wizard Knight if new to Wolfe.

[Anonymous No.9550863]

>>9550565
I'd sooner trust you cunts for recs.
Christ that's sad.

[Anonymous No.9550884]

>>9550565
>And that space lesbian technofantasy space opera

What this one?

[Anonymous No.9550896]

>>9550141
Sounds funny pol sama. Also make sure because of a nuclear winter many, many decades ago, they need the chemical found in grape juice to survive. So they drink copious amounts of thw stuff.

[Anonymous No.9550900]

>bump limit reached in 2-3 days
What's the matter? I check in here every couple months or so and last time I did a thread was alive for a week or more.

[Anonymous No.9550901]

>>9550269
He probably checked your goodreads account. You got a stalker.

[Anonymous No.9550904]

>>9550900
Somebody started linking the threads on reddit, then a bunch of redditors showed up and started whining about /pol/ every thread.

[Anonymous No.9550905]

>>9550901
heh

[Anonymous No.9550910]

>>9550683
Hull zero three
Metro 2033
Roadside picnic

[Anonymous No.9550913]

>>9549163
K R U P P
R
U
P
P

[Anonymous No.9550915]

>>9550884
Nine fox gambit

[Anonymous No.9550916]

>>9550904
That is disheartening. Can't the reddit-crowd just leave again?

[Anonymous No.9550919]

>>9550683
Red Mars. The exploration and settlement aspect is really all it has going for it.

[Anonymous No.9550920]

>>9550910
Thanks, ill give all these a go.

[Anonymous No.9550921]

>>9550900
It's summer. They try to say the summer meme is not true, but the last 2 summers this general was sanic fast, reaching the 310 posts within 1-2 days.

If the meme is not true, and it's the same IPs, then they have more time to shitpost.

[Anonymous No.9550925]

>>9550919
Robinson's philosophy which he regularly puts into his books (colonization is bad mkay) is fucking weird though

[Anonymous No.9550943]

>>9550916
>no trigger discipline
Pussy

>>9550904
>4chan is a pol run mogolian textile weaving board
>anyone not liking pol is from reddit
Why don't you neck yourself Mr /pol/ite? If this was a scheme to gather (you)s then it's time to play in traffic on the freeway.

[Anonymous No.9550990]

>>9550925
It didn't seem that way when it was published.
I remember there was a resurgence in environmentalism at the time.
It was when all sides of government where I live first started talking about it as policy for the sake of the environment itself, rather then rectifying a growing problem.

[Anonymous No.9551013]

>>9550921
If only there was a way to count the amount of unique posters.
Gee, what I'd give for Jackie 4chan to put that in...

[Anonymous No.9551026]

>>9550668
That's 'The Island of Dr. Death and Other Stories'. And yes, it's very good. If it doesn't make sense on first reading that is not a problem, it just means that you have a sub-150 iq.

[Anonymous No.9551031]

>>9550565
To be fair, is anybody writing good science-fiction right now? Anybody under 70 years of age?

[Anonymous No.9551036]

>>9551031

[Anonymous No.9551041]

>>9551013
Last thread was 98 posters, we usually have 100+. This shows that either :
a.) regulars went on vacation and an influx of reddit too it's place
b.) college students, and high schools are out, they have more time to shitpost

[Anonymous No.9551047]

>>9551031

[Anonymous No.9551068]

>>9551036
I unironically don't recognize this man. Who is he and does he write anything worthwhile?

>>9551047
Is that Sanderson? I've never actually read a word of his writing.

[Anonymous No.9551077]

>>9551068
He fucked Jordan's wife while finishing his series.

[Anonymous No.9551113]

>>9551068
Peter Watts. Probably best North American sci-fi writer of the last 10-15 years. Blindsight and his short stories are pretty good. Criminally underrated.

[Anonymous No.9551119]

>>9551113
Probably should have been 5-10 years, Rifters trilogy was only really a 7/10

[Anonymous No.9551139]

>>9551047
what science fiction books is he writing?

[Anonymous No.9551156]

>>9551031
The best scifi books of recent times are:
Ninefox Gambit by Yoon Ha Lee
Too Like the Lightning
Both of the Firefall books by Peter Watts
However, most old scifi book is better than the modern stuff, authors like Lem, David Keyes, Haldeman, Alfred Bester, Isaac Asimov,
Vonnegut, Harlan Ellison, Dan Simmons, Strugatsky, PKD, Gibson and Orwell - these are all amazing authors.

[Anonymous No.9551165]

>>9551119
Rifters should have stayed as a claustrophobic story about deep sea psychos. It rapidly lost steam after the first book even if Behemoth was an interesting idea.

[Anonymous No.9551169]

>>9551156
Put the Three Body trilogy on there and I think we've got four contenders for the /sffg/ modern picks.

Any suggestions to make it a round five?

[Anonymous No.9551171]

>>9551169
We need more books. Someone recommend please.

[Anonymous No.9551176]

>>9551165
I entirely agree, but then Watts himself said he felt a lot of fan pressure to expand the and show the rest of the world. Sometimes sexy is what you don't see though. Packed full of interesting ideas though, even if the story got a bit, well, weirdly shit.

[Anonymous No.9551177]

>>9551156
*books, are

[Anonymous No.9551187]

>>9551171
Modern sci-fi is just a bit shit really. We need to unearth some modern gems.

[Anonymous No.9551189]

>>9551187
>unearthing anything
I'm a lazy fuck though.

[Anonymous No.9551227]

>>9551189
I'm not even lazy, but where the fuck are we meant to find new shit. I follow a few authors, and I did my best to crack into the Chinese craze, but I've not found anything substantial or really worth huge amounts of praise.

What with the fantasy-bird-witch bullshit winning the Hugos, what little I faith I had in the mainstream awards is gone. Where else is there to look?

[Anonymous No.9551237]

>>9551227
You say that but too like the lightning and ninefox were nominees so clearly there's some sense still there

[Anonymous No.9551242]

>>9551187
What's wrong with Jeff Vandermeer, Paolo StupidItalianName and Hannu StupidScandinavianName?

[Anonymous No.9551245]

>>9551237
JUST
>Childhood friends Patricia Delfine and Laurence Armstead didn't expect to see each other again, after parting ways under mysterious circumstances during high school.

[Anonymous No.9551256]

>>9551245
>After all, the development of magical powers and the invention of a two-second time machine could hardly fail to alarm one's peers and families.

[Anonymous No.9551263]

>>9551242
Errrr well primarily I've never heard of them. What's good? Also their real names u nonce

[Anonymous No.9551276]

>>9551263
Look for The Southern Reach trilogy, the Jean le Flambeur series and The Windup Girl.

[Anonymous No.9551284]

>>9551276
thanks senpai

[Anonymous No.9551288]

>>9551276
>The Southern Reach trilogy

I'm tempted to read it but it looks like the typical "weird shit keeps happening but we can't never explain why because it's beyond human comprehension lol"

[Anonymous No.9551299]

>>9551288
I read the first two and wasn't interested enough to read the third. It wasn't very good, but it wasn't offensively bad either.

[Anonymous No.9551305]

>>9551288
I can't say you're totally wrong but I think it's still a good read.

[Anonymous No.9551328]

>>9551169
Does Ancillary Justice do it?
it's a shame there weren't any decent sequels

[Anonymous No.9551359]

>>9551328
Havent read it. I felt ninefox ended on a solid enough note

[Anonymous No.9551445]

>>9551328
Worth reading but not great merely a good series squandered. Entertaining but the prose needs a brush up and the sequels need to go back to the ideas of the first book.

[Anonymous No.9551486]

>>9551113
>people blew their shit thread before the last when they confronted the recent Malazan shill(it's been on charts before this general, don't know why he was shilling so hard)
>no one calls out the blindsight shill (who is probably watts himself following a redshit link)
>blindsight anon has been sperging up and down trying to get his "underrated" book read, even though it's a redshit staple

[Anonymous No.9551490]

Any good series with good world building without retard levels of power?
I read already Tolkien, vance, lovercraft, CAS, Second Apoclipsis, Howard, Started Malazan and droped it, the way of kings...

[Anonymous No.9551500]

>>9551490
Guy Gavriel Kay, Daniel Abraham

[Anonymous No.9551501]

>>9551486
I do mention the book a lot , so I'll slow down.

[Anonymous No.9551509]

>>9551486
Blindsight is great, ever since someone here recc'd it to me about a year ago I hunger for something as good as it.

[Anonymous No.9551519]

>>9551486
>he doesn't know this is the shill an chill general

[Anonymous No.9551553]

>reading through thread
>nearing bottom
>praise for forced sjw trash books
>look back at top
>notice how certain books are praised
Jesus fuck this thread is infested with reddit. Have all the regulars left? These reddit like praise is too much, purge, we need a purge.
>praise for obvious sjw pronoun tripe has intensified over these past threads

[Anonymous No.9551559]

Who here browses reddit? No need to feel shame, just reply to this post if you use reddit.

[Anonymous No.9551561]

>>9551500
>Guy Gavriel Kay
The one than writes about not-spain and not-Italy? I dunno, I'm a history buff from Spain, when you touch people so loved as the El Cid or Isabel/Fernando you have to be very good. Is the worldbuilding elaborated or only apes the nations history?
The other guy, The Dragon's Path seems okay, should I start with that one?

[Anonymous No.9551574]

>>9551561
GGK's best book is Tigana by far and Abraham's best series is Long Price Quartet but Dagger and Coin is also good. Both authors have very, very little magic. Long Price is quite generational, Dagger and Coin is more traditional.

[Anonymous No.9551575]

>>9551561
If you get offended by people writing about your beloved rapist, genocidal Spaniards, then don't read.

>dragon's path
If you like bankers in your fiction, go ahead.

[Anonymous No.9551576]

>>9551486
>every book that gets mentioned a lot is a shill.
>every book i don't like is reddit.

[Anonymous No.9551589]

>>9551576
>redditor takes offense that 4chan isn't an annex and people don't like their kind here
Just hit alt+f4 and end it.

[Anonymous No.9551590]

>>9551553
They'll either acculturate or leave. Give it time.
>yfw it's a conspiracy to turn your hair green

[Anonymous No.9551599]

>>9551589
>>9551553
>>9551559
Oh here comes the derailing retard.

[Anonymous No.9551602]

>>9551590
Nice samefag retard.

[Anonymous No.9551607]

>>9551602
Mrrr?

[Anonymous No.9551612]

>>9551607
>Mrrr
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9551618]

Everyone shut the fuck up and tell me if I can start Culture from Player of Games

[Anonymous No.9551622]

>>9551575
Nice, I will go for the long price quarter then.
>>9551575
I don't mind bankers or non warriors in muh fantasy.
>If you get offended.
Lel, it's only people taking bits of them without truly grasping the culture they lived in.
>Genocidal Rapists.
Wut, muh ancestors absorved other cultures and raped them in war, nothing than any other power didn't do even in the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.9551627]

>>9551618
those books were fucking awesome. Thank you /lit/ for the suggestion. I'll be reading Endymion here in a bit.

[Anonymous No.9551635]

>>9551627
don't

[Anonymous No.9551640]

>>9551627
I wouldn't do it, it's like Dune the first is the best, the second is okay, after that is more a no-no.

[Anonymous No.9551647]

What is the puppet martial arts shows of book, sffg?

[Anonymous No.9551657]

>>9551627
I read Endymion and the sequels for de Soya, poor guy just doesn't get enough scenes.

[Anonymous No.9551666]

>>9551640
>the second is okay
You didn't enjoy Fall of Of Hyperion?
I loved it start to finish, thought the way Simmons kept the narrative going through the two Keats clones or whatever was smart, and it tied up every lose end in an almost anime-like conclusion of epic proportions. I think the Duet was incredibly strong, and hence why I didn't bother with Endymions

[Anonymous No.9551672]

>>9551612
Means he is catfag

>>9551602
>only one person in sffg, no 4chan dislikes reddit
>everyone else is part of the annex
Kys. Read books with gri, none of that sjw shit.

[Anonymous No.9551684]

>>9551622
>muh ancestors
You sound like the Chinese with their 3 body problem

[Anonymous No.9551688]

>>9551672
>>9551684
You're not even trying.

[Anonymous No.9551709]

>>9551688
I'm getting a real lobsterman vibe here. I enjoyed this book (there's a trilogy), perhaps you'd like it?

[Anonymous No.9551735]

tuc fucking when

[Anonymous No.9551736]

I was really excited to begin reading this series. I'd made sure not to read any spoilers or plot elements, but knew that several prominent science fiction websites and a bunch of people on reddit really liked this series.
I'm halfway through Gardens of the Moon, and I don't even think I'll be able to finish it. I can barely keep track of the 20+ characters that have been introduced so far, and I care about none of them. I can re-read entire chapters and not really understand what went on in them. I don't understand any of the motivations of the characters, nor do I understand the forces behind the Malazan empire.
To me, Gardens of the Moon feels like one of those books that everyone pretends to like and "get" because it is so different, when in actuality, it doesn't make much sense and elicits little emotion in the reader (except frustration). Don't get me wrong, I am all for books that take time to understand, but it seems that Erikson purposely left out much information that you would be unable to deduce for yourself.

No wonder you don't like malazan around here.

[Anonymous No.9551742]

Snow Crash vs Neuromancer

Which one is better?

[Anonymous No.9551745]

Just finished Wheel of Time
Hurin was too good to die

[Anonymous No.9551749]

>>9551745
>Just finished Wheel of Time
retard

[Anonymous No.9551760]

>>9551736
>I don't think
>I can barely keep track
>I care about none
>I don't understand
>I can re-read and still not understand

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Anonymous No.9551765]

>>9551736
>No wonder you don't like malazan around here.
Except Malazan is one of the most popular series in this general?
GotM starts to come together near the end. If you don't like it by then, worry, but give book 2 a shot. GotM shows the series' style, but it's also the most extreme example. Malazan is good if you like aha moments when stuff suddenly connects for you.

[Anonymous No.9551776]

>>9551765
Only the first malazan book was any good, it just gets worse after every book

[Anonymous No.9551789]

>>9551776
I disagree, but it is a big time sink.

[Anonymous No.9551796]

Thoughts on this book?

[Anonymous No.9551865]

reminder

[Anonymous No.9551923]

>>9551736
>I don't understand any of the motivations of the characters, nor do I understand the forces behind the Malazan empire.

You identified the biggest "problem" the book has, there are no 20+ pages of exposition dumps where characters are telling each other things they already know.

Erikson is not Sanderson, who makes clear who everyone is and how everything works, which leaves the reader in the dark which obviously can be frustrating.

But an important point is that barely anyone in the story knows what is going on behind the Malazan empire (and the ones who do obviously keep it themselves), the same applies to the magic system.
And figuring out these things is part of the plot.

Also some of the character motivations are forshadowed and only later revealed (as an example the first poem in the books reveals certain connections which are only made clear in book 2).

It is obviously your choice whether or not to drop the book, but the second book is significantly more structured and less ambiguous about what exactly is happening.

[Anonymous No.9551965]

>>9551865
>tfw no passionate sf reader gf

[Anonymous No.9551975]

>>9551923
there is a difference between not having exposition dumps and being deliberately obtuse -- the latter of which erikson is often guilty of

[Anonymous No.9552050]

>>9551975
>being deliberately obtuse
I don't think he is guilt of that.

Firstly it is hard to judge whether something is done intentionally or accidentally and because this is much less a problem in the second book I would tend to say that he listened to, probably valid, criticism.

Secondly I don't think "obtuse" is the right word.
He just isn't giving enough context for some scenes to make complete sense, which obviously puts an extra strain of the reader to figure things out himself and can leave him in the dark for significant portions of the plot.

I would certainly admit that the book is flawed, but on the other hand I also experienced it as an interesting (possibly unintentional) experiment in world building, where the reader is thrown into the story without the context to understand everything.
This differs quite a lot from the conventional approach, but requires the reader to be willing to learn about the mystery the world presents to him.

[Anonymous No.9552054]

>>9551113
Fuck man, there's literally nothing else out there like Blindopraxia.

There are currently only 2 good scifi novels in the world.

[Anonymous No.9552105]

>>9551742
neither

[Anonymous No.9552110]

>>9552054
I enjoyed Blindsight to the point where I think I've now read everything Watts has to offer, read everything he's recommended, and pretty much trawled his entire site. I'm a massive gay fanboy.

I even emulate his writing style for fuck sake.

[Anonymous No.9552253]

I keep rereading these Aspect-Emperor books and I can't get over how fucking bad they are.
I seriously don't get it. WHAT HAPPENED? Did he just figure out there was nowhere to go from where he left off in Thousandfold Thought and decided to wing it? How could he make so many fucking bad decisions?

I'll be honest, I've lost all hope. I hope that last book blows my fucking mind, but I doubt it. It's sad, because apart from Tolkien and Bakker, I don't think I've enjoyed any other fantasy authors that much.

Am I the only one that feels this way? Do you guys think the Aspect-Emperor is just as good or even an improvement over the OT?

[Anonymous No.9552286]

>>9552253
I feel kinda the same. I stoped reading them when Kellhus buggered Proyas. That was the last straw, like holy fuck I get it, you are fucking fixed with anal sex but there are other ways to mess with people.

[Anonymous No.9552303]

>>9552286

That was probably the only surprising thing that's happened so far.

I hate how
akka spent the intervening time doing jack shit and has gotten even dumber
the mimara character that's just fetish material and completely unsympathetic
all the esmenet bullshit in the city that after three novels still has NO FUCKING PURPOSE
he cut out cnaiur, the only decent protagonist, out of the fucking books
the new boy character whose name i can't even remember (the barbarian one)
all the cuck shit that never seems to end

[Anonymous No.9552314]

>>9552253
first 3 books were good enough to have me stay up all night and still be late for work because i want to finish it
the others were homework, reading because i "have to" to see what will happen

[Anonymous No.9552341]

About to start Monarchies of God, how true to combat of renaissance Europe is it?

[Anonymous No.9552344]

>>9549955
>I heard that Malazan's characters die left and right
But it also has shitloads of characters so there's still plenty alive. There are a few select characters in Malazan that manage to live the whole way through the series, from book 1 to book 10.

[Anonymous No.9552346]

>>9552344
>There are a few select characters in Malazan that manage to live the whole way through the series, from book 1 to book 10.

How unfortunate

[Anonymous No.9552351]

>>9552303
Yeah, we got the worse PoV. The cuck dude is cringey as fuck too. I will wait for the last book and read them again, but wew so far it's shiting in the first novels.

[Anonymous No.9552376]

>>9551975
He's not deliberately obtuse, you're just not paying attention and have no patience. If you'd bothered reading threads here instead of reddit you'd have been told that this series is not something you can casually read. Erikson is not Sanderson. You have to pay attention and make an effort to remember things while reading Malazan or you will only get lost. If you don't feel an intense curiosity for all the things mentioned, for how warrens work, for the secrets of the Malazan Empire, and all the rest, then just stop reading. Pick something that spoonfeeds you.

[Anonymous No.9552409]

>>9550660
You realize anyone can make a cosmere like wiki? But that no one does because if a series is complete and has no theorycrafting: then it's not worth remembering in perfect detail since nothin is gained from such examination.

[Anonymous No.9552420]

>>9552253
I actually enjoy aspect emperor even more. It's been getting more Lovecraftian, and the characters are becoming more insane. The surreal moments in cil aujas and ishterebinth give me the biggest hardon.

[Anonymous No.9552463]

>>9552420

>cil aujas and ishterebinth give me the biggest hardon

Sure, they're cool. I even think the autistic kid is a pretty interesting character. But the story itself has gone down by a lot compared to the OT. I feel he was trying to move away from """the journey""" by offering these other PoVs from Momemn, but it only made it all feel much slower for me.

I don't know. I've lost all emotional connection to it, I guess. The characters are acting completely unnatural, and the events taking place and their reaction to them feel incredibly forced. It's clear that he's just biased towards certain characters like Esmenet, that just won't fucking die no matter how much the story demands it; and then you have others like Cnaiur, Kellhus, Moenghus, that he stays away from because he seems conscious of the fact that he can't handle making them interesting at all times.

In my opinion, Achamian and Esmenet should have been long dead by now.And the death of Nil'giccas was too early, and completely underwhelming. Major fuck-up.

[Anonymous No.9552496]

>>9551736
>elicits little emotion in the reader
Wew lad, just you wait.

Look up the Malazan Reread of the Fallen, might help you keep track of things.

[Anonymous No.9552522]

>>9552463
I see where you're getting at with the momemn POVs, but I suspect that Esme is instrumental to his overarching themes on foucauldian themes on feminism, language, sexuality, and power. I need to finish my reread, but I think there's a lot more going on in momemn than at the surface level. Bakker loves subtexts, and even if it reads flawed, I assume another intention. So that's why I can stand momemn. That and the insane abstract cthulu wars going on between the gods behind the white luck warrior and kelmomas

[Anonymous No.9552524]

>>9552376

>He's not deliberately obtuse

Yeah, he's just a shitty writer. Midnight Tides is probably one of the most meaningless things I've ever forced myself to finish. Right up there with The Name of the Wind.

Erikson is great in the moment, but when you stop and think about what he's doing it feels condescending. The ending to Memories of Ice is probably the best example of that. So fucking cheesy.

Nor do I think that people being completely fucking confused as to what's going on is a good sign. Just because you aren't spoon-feeding with info-dumps doesn't mean your setting has to be fucking esoteric (especially when the story itself is so simplistic).

It just seems to me like he's working with so much material that he has no idea how to present it and how to form a truly cohesive narrative.

Having said all of this, those initial Karsa chapters are some of the best shit I've ever read. It's such a shame that it's not a standalone. "Lead me, Warleader."

[Anonymous No.9552540]

>>9552522

>I suspect that Esme is instrumental to his overarching themes on foucauldian themes on feminism, language, sexuality, and power
But that's part of the problem for me. The story should come first, not his desire to convey some second-hand philosophy that he's writing up on his blog anyway.
I mean, sure, have your themes. Make your points. He did that in the OT just fine, and it worked. But if you're sacrificing the honesty of your narrative and sabotaging the trust of your reader, you're probably focusing on the wrong thing.

[Anonymous No.9552562]

>>9550660
>wikis
Write it yourself then.

[Anonymous No.9552622]

Despite the comical edge Prince of Thorns is actually pretty okay but the inconsistencies in the setting is killing me.

Feels like the author only changed massive details to fit in the post-apoc setting, whilst all of the smaller stuff like clothing and tapestries is just as it was in the middle ages

[Anonymous No.9552623]

>>9552540
I never really thought the story in the second apocalypse to be that amazing, so maybe that's why I care less. The first trilogy is just some dudes that go on a holy war, find a prophet, discover rape aliens, and genocide dunecoons. The genius of it was always the inversions. Every character was interesting because they were all waking contradictions. And all the story, character building tied to determinism, sexuality, inverse hero's journey, mythbuilding, etc etc. PoN would be nothing if it was the same overall story written in the style of someone like Erikson or sanderson. They would not be able to connect those elements. So I'm saying the strength is in the whole, and the whole of aspect emperor is just as strong to me.

[Anonymous No.9552626]

>>9552463
But anon.

Moenghus is dead

[Anonymous No.9552645]

>>9552626

He's definitely not.

You should read the ending to TTF carefully. Cnaiur is deeply in love with Moenghus, and that's clear from the start of TDTCB. It's pretty clear that he doesn't have it in him to kill Moenghus.

[Anonymous No.9552682]

>>9552622

Honestly, I think I'd have enjoyed it more if the story had just stuck to banditry.

Didn't care for the ending, but it was all pretty decent.

[Anonymous No.9552688]

>>9552645
>Moenghus gasped, jerked and spasmed as Cnaiur rolled the Chorae across his cheek. White light flared from his gouged sockets. For an instant, Cnaiur thought, it seemed the God watched him through a mans eyes. "What do you see?"

>"Not again!" He yelled at the sagging form. "How could you leave me?"

>He knelt over his lover's corpse -for how many heartbeats, he would never know.


Seems pretty clear cut to me

[Anonymous No.9552706]

>>9552623

See, I disagree. I think the trilogy would be way better if it was given over to more competent hands (like Cormac McCarthy's, who he seemed to be emulating with the scalpers anyway).
While Bakker is very good at world-building and coming up with interesting story ideas, he's way too slow and proselytizing. There are pages and pages and pages of him spouting pure nonsense in the form of characters' thoughts that adds jack shit to the story. The whole events of the first three books could have easily been condensed into one by a better writer. There's just not that much going on to justify the length.

And I always thought the story was interesting. The whole transition of Kellhus from a rational materialist into a mystic was fascinating. That scene where he's talking bullshit in book two and then it all comes true was powerful, as well as the finale with Moenghus declaring him mad.

[Anonymous No.9552719]

any love for Undying Mercenaries here?

[Anonymous No.9552725]

>>9552706
>The whole transition of.....was fascinating

I thought it was stupid.
You know when an author said some enemy is the best fighter, very strong, undefeatable, and then the first time they fight they lose. And they lose the second time too.
I got that same vibe from this character changing from the most X of all the people, to the most anti-X, in such an obvious way, believing his own bullshit that he knows he made up, and even we hear him thinking about.

Also, the actual undefeatable, but always defeated totally-not-arabs in his retelling of the historical events of the crusade against the turkics.

[Anonymous No.9552730]

>>9552688

Hmm. Seems I'm retarded. I always assumed that didn't happen because I thought chorae turned people to ash, so the corpse thing threw me off.

But the wiki for Moenghus seems to confirm it. The two speak; then Cnaiür kills Moënghus with a Chorae.

[Anonymous No.9552744]

>>9552725

I always considered it okay because we see Kellhus shocked by his power to write the future, absent of the Thousandfold Thought.

Though, I think you're probably right that it could have been handled a lot better. Like I said, it seems to me that Bakker is aware of his inability to keep Kellhus cool/consistent if he spends too much time in his POV, so he avoids issues instead. It definitely would've been much better if we got to see Kellhus rationalizing his new beliefs and being skeptical about them at first.

[Anonymous No.9552753]

>>9552744
The other time he dropped the ball, unless it comes up as part of His Great Plan, is when Kelly ignored the rather obvious plague in his wife's vagina.
Considering what information he has, he should've been able to deduce things, and considering the kind of guy he is, it shouldn't be love clouding his mind.

[Anonymous No.9552762]

>>9552725
He doesnt believe his own bullshit thought until he sees the no god

Which is supposed to make you question if its actually bullshit or not.

[Anonymous No.9552767]

Hey /sffg/, still working on some fantasy smut – will post a preview in a while. I think you'll all really like it!

[Anonymous No.9552768]

>>9552762
The author said that entity is a p-zombie, so I doubt it could provide much of a revelation. Its practically the spirit of nature.

[Anonymous No.9552773]

>>9552767
please don't
unless it's transformation

[Anonymous No.9552774]

>>9552753

Good point, good point. You're a better critical thinker, anon. My enjoyment and disappointment usually comes out of how emotionally satisfied I feel by the story. The love thing killed a part of me as well. Especially because it's related to Esmenet. I just can't stand that bitch. She has such a high opinion of herself, it's insane. I've also found her incredibly stupid, despite the fact that Bakker spends the entire time trying to tell us how smart she is through all these different characters.

[Anonymous No.9552779]

>>9552767
Thanks anon, I love pseudo-religious elven ritual lesbomancy initiation trials.

[Anonymous No.9552782]

>>9552706
Second apocalypse with McCarthy would be amazing.

Though I think you undersell Bakker's writing. I think the times where Kellhus proselytizes is the best, and it's not for no point. At the very minimum, it's required to see through what techniques he is able to convince common people that he is a prophet, otherwise it would be unconvincing when people are literally killing themselves in his name in front of outsiders. Even more I think it's an amazing insight into how humans in general grasp faith and morality.

And overall, Bakker is one of the best, if not the best writer in fantasy. That doesn't say much, but he's definitely in lit league. He doesn't spend pages describing a room, and when he does describe something, it's always ponderous and contemplative, while being concise. And descriptions are thematically appropriate. He never says something is beautiful for the sake of it, like grrm and rothfuss do.

So he's pretty good. Maybe not McCarthy, but McCarthy is also really weird and unique as a writer, so maybe not the best comparison

[Anonymous No.9552787]

>>9552768
Right its just an echo from when it was alive. However, he didn't actually think it existed, that it was just a myth. His belief in the no god and souls are kindled in this moment, and what makes him abandon Moenghus and his designs

[Anonymous No.9552792]

>>9552774
The courtesan that becomes a shrewd diplomat and aids her husband king is a popular historical trope, and the author clearly borrows copies a lot from history.

And the books aren't bad. I just wish they were more. They had potential to be more.
The series is giving me Black Company vibes, its getting duller with every book after the strong start.

[Anonymous No.9552798]

>>9552792
She is literally, literally Theodora of Byzantium.

[Anonymous No.9552807]

>>9552798
The crusade through the desert is also Byzantine history inspired copied, including its most memorable scenes.

[Anonymous No.9552812]

>>9552719
It gets recced a lot

I found it hard to stick with it after the first book since the concept was only interesting whilst being introduced

I like Larson's newer series better

[Anonymous No.9552818]

>>9552782

>I think the times where Kellhus proselytizes is the best

Oh, I didn't mean Kellhus doing it. That's fine. I meant it when Bakker does it--when he's talking about ethics, politics, gender issues and so on by using the characters' ruminations as the vehicles. The Esmenet and Achamian chapters are just full of this sort of stuff. It does absolutely nothing for me. Like I said, I already read his blog, and I can just go read philosophy if that's what I'm in the mood to do. If I'm reading fiction, I expect an author to be a bit more subtle and put the emphasis on the story and the emotive factors first and foremost.
None of my issues with him as a writer come from the prose per se. I agree that it's above and beyond these commercial fantasy authors. It's just his desire to linger over things that aren't of particular import that drives me mad, especially when there's so many things to cover.

Take, for example, the Ikureis. They were given so much importance in the first book. I've never done a count, but I'm willing to say they're at least 15-20% of it. And then what? They're largely abandoned and killed off because he has no idea what to do with them anymore. It's clear that there was more to that plot and that he just had no idea what to do with it when it came time to put it in action.

[Anonymous No.9552823]

>>9552782
It appears that you say "the best" when you mean to say "i like it the most".
Other authors describing things in greater detail is not some flaw of their ability, its another style that other people like.

[Anonymous No.9552827]

>>9552792

That doesn't justify her being written badly, though. You could've done all of that and still had a sympathetic character whose worth was conveyed through her actions, rather than the words of other characters.

[Anonymous No.9552829]

>>9552818
Because the Ikureis were the villians

Once Kellhus occupies their power, they no longer serve a purpose, because they are the old order that is swept away by dunyain plotting.

[Anonymous No.9552835]

>>9552827
Relevant image, I think. Its a bit strong, I don't view the author that unfavorably, but I still thing the reasoning holds here.

[Anonymous No.9552847]

>>9552829

So what if they were? They weren't the only ones. Nor does it explain why he would spend so much time giving us their POVs in the first book if he planned to do away with them right after.

You can't tell me that doesn't read to you as the writing of a deeply confused man. You're writing this philosophical epic that has so many things you could focus on, and instead you put in worthless pages about the drama and intrigues of a family that's going to be dead the next book, whose thoughts add nothing of long-lasting? No. I don't buy it. That was precious time that could've been used on another. He is constantly abandoning subplots that he has no idea what to do with. Just like he stashed Cnaiur away for three fucking novels.

[Anonymous No.9552850]

I don't remember which book I last read. The one where dad and sis come out of the cave, and kill and eat uncle, so they can walk to grandpa's hidden house in the woods.

Which book was that? Are there others released that follow it?

[Anonymous No.9552853]

>first 100 posts about blindsight
>next 100 about prince of nothing

what we thinking for our final 300

[Anonymous No.9552859]

>>9552835

Yeah, he's not there... yet.

[Anonymous No.9552862]

>>9552853
This guy's >>9552767 smut.

[Anonymous No.9552876]

>>9552847
Their whole point is to show why Kellhus is needed and to provide an antagonist for his rise through the crusade. They also discover the existence of the consult. They have a purpose, but it is fulfilled by the end of TTT and their story is ended.

Once Kellhus overcomes them, why would he leave them alive if he is an all knowing super genius. If he left such hostile enemies alive, people would bitch too.

Its literally defeating a mini boss before fighting the real bosses.

[Anonymous No.9552879]

>>9552812

The concept does lose it's novelty quickly I suppose. Though, it does have some nice comedic effect at times.

I do like seeing humanity expanding within the empire, and the bureaucratic fuckery in the series quite a bit though. Of course, I am a bit biased by my love of dick ass scoundrel protags though.

I haven't read any of his other work yet, it's worth looking into you say?

[Anonymous No.9552906]

>>9552876

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying they shouldn't have been there at all. They clearly have use. But the amount of time spent on them and the detailed treatment they get is clearly a result of him planning for them to be more important to the story in some way. I'm not even saying that it wasn't his plan that they would perish. Maybe it was all along, maybe not. But it could also be that he wanted to use them to show another side of the story that we never got to see.

Also, he's never spent an unwarranted amount of time on any other set of characters since then. Nor is he in the habit of giving us detailed PoVs for the hell of it. There's no way you can convince me that wasting 100p+ on the Ikureis' backstory and interrelations was only so that we could establish two simple things that would've been established with their mere existence either way, because for the important parts Kellhus and Achamian are present already.

[Anonymous No.9552915]

>>9552906
Its almost as if he didn't expect the book to be so well received, and has no idea how the complete story looks like, so he is making it up as he goes.

[Anonymous No.9552928]

>>9552915

That would be an appropriate explanation (though by no means an excuse), if it wasn't for the fact that he loves to repeat in interviews that he's been brainstorming this thing since he was in his early twenties.

If this is what a decade and a half of brainstorming looks like, I fear for that last Aspect-Emperor novel.

[Anonymous No.9552938]

>>9552879
>I haven't read any of his other work yet, it's worth looking into you say?
Yeah, Rebel Fleet is what it's called IIRC

I can't remember much because I read the two books that were out in one night but it's a similar concept but with space warfare and the mc being less voluntary.

[Anonymous No.9552940]

>>9552850
>>9552850
pls respond
is this the last one released

[Anonymous No.9552947]

>>9549431
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you womanly Dunyain? I’ll have you know I was chieftain of my tribe in the Jiunati Steppe, and I’ve been involved in numerous public raids on the Nansur, and I have over 300 confirmed swazonds. I am trained in rape warfare and I’m the top strategist in the entire Holy War. You are nothing to me but just another way to fuck Moengus. I rape the fuck out with anger the likes of which has never been seen before on the Three Seas, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with not letting me ravage your asshole? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am crying on the beach about how straight I am so you better prepare for the People of War, faggot. The People of War that wipe out the pathetic little thing you call your anal virginity. You’re fucking dead, Dunyain. I can rape any man, any time, and I can fuck you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Holy War and I will use it to its full extent to pound your miserable ass into the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” father was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking ass open. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury inside of you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, Dunyain.

[Anonymous No.9552966]

>>9552938
Always been more of a fan of ground pounders than ships whatever the setting, but think I might just check it out.

MC still a rogue though? Flashman is my personal favorite among all the protags I've read, so I can dig the unwilling hero pretty well.

[Anonymous No.9552984]

>>9552966
Yeah he's an even bigger prick too since he starts off as a sort of hobo grifter

[Anonymous No.9553114]

>>9552915
He's said multiple times that this story has been complete for years

[Anonymous No.9553153]

>>9552847
Why do you feel the need for everything to have a grand point for the story? Why can't the ikureis just be another window to examine politics in the three seas? It also gives a window into a man who's half insane and half genius, and the contradictions such a personality manifests. I think it was time well spent establishing because the political dimensions were important for the reader. Why were they important? Because they were elements that kellhus needed to understand and manipulate. It all came together. If it wasn't the ikureis, it would've been proyas (which it was too some extent). The ikureis just had the added benefit of contradicting the preeminence of the other great powers

[Anonymous No.9553258]

>come in general
>blacked out sentences everywhere
It's officially summer huh?

[Anonymous No.9553265]

>>9553258
They were having an actual book discussion anon.

[Anonymous No.9553269]

>>9553258
ur a faget

[Anonymous No.9553331]

>>9550008
>>9550053
>>9550079
Aviendhas third trip thru the crystal pillars in Rhoidion
It almost made me want to stop reading. Everything felt so hopeless because you didn't know if it was the exact future or just a possibility.

[Anonymous No.9553338]

>>9553331
*Rhuidean

[Anonymous No.9553341]

>>9552818
Never have I felt that Bakker was using the characters to preach his own views, except for one time. Every single time it's down, it always felt like something that character himself/herself would espouse. The one time I do feel that way is when Achamian talks about doubt, which I think is diagetic, so it's not inconsistent with the world. And also it's poignant, because he's literally telling you "doubt everything everybody says in my works".

So I am actually curious, so it would be interesting to see what passages you felt this way about. Not saying that I disbelieve you: I'm sure that you did feel Bakker himself was using characters as his own mouthpiece, it's just that I almost never felt that way.

[Anonymous No.9553598]

I hate writing several straight pages of description/action due to only one character being present and doing shit. It makes me feel like my momentum is slowing, even though I'm still writing the same number of words per day as usual.

[Anonymous No.9553858]

>>9553598
Describe environments, or the characters inner workings. You can convey a lot about a characters thoughts through memory, with helps with fleshing out them and the world. Don't just think about going home, remember home, why you'd like to go back, but ultimately why you can't.

[Anonymous No.9553859]

>>9553331
I-Its just a possibility right?

[Anonymous No.9554009]

>>9551742
Stand on Zanzibar

[Anonymous No.9554022]

Threadly reminder that every 1000+ page doorstopper series that isn't Wolfe's Solar Cycle is just a soap opera for neckbeards.

[Anonymous No.9554057]

>>9551742
As a teenager I liked Snow Crash more.

As a adult I think Neuromancer holds up a lot better, it's more interesting whereas Snow Crash is just a tawdry action flick that's only slightly better than your average Shadowrun spinoff novel.

Only other Gibson I've read is the Blue Ant series. I'd describe them as being techno-thrillers but about advertising and clothing, sure that doesn't sound interesting but he weaves them into fantastic stories like (the third book) a burnt out punk rocker trying to find the creator of a "stealth brand" of pants that may have been stolen from new US military designs.

[Anonymous No.9554062]

Im going to determine by myself how much of a meme Sanderson is, what should I read? way of kings or mistborn?

[Anonymous No.9554070]

>>9554022
Soap operas are pretty legit desu tho

[Anonymous No.9554072]

>>9554062
>Im going to determine by myself how much of a meme Sanderson is, what should I read?

The book of Mormon

[Anonymous No.9554085]

>>9554062
In Mistborn you get to see his anime fights pretty fast.

Way of kangz is more bloated.

[Anonymous No.9554109]

>>9554057
Not who your replying to but do you know of anything else like Blue Ant?
I enjoyed the contemporary setting and how it explored the social impact of new technologies.

[Anonymous No.9554249]

>>9554022
Maybe I'll give this another shot. I read Shadow of the Torturer and was so bored I ended up skimming through the last 150 pages.

[Anonymous No.9554269]

>>9554249
I'd recommend starting Wolfe with something shorter. If you aren't familiar with his style Book of the New Sun can seem slow and pointless. Maybe go for 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus' before you try it again. That book is weird and meandering like New Sun but starts to pay off and make sense much sooner.

[Anonymous No.9554308]

>>9548752
So I started reading The Sword of Shannara, but I'm not even 1/2 way done and I got easily distracted and unmotivated to finish it. Should I go back and finish it just to say I've read it or do I drop it while I can and move on to something better? It was good so far, I like the prose, I just think it's pretty derivative of the fantasy works I've read so far. (the fantasy book I read before this one was The Eye of the World).

[Anonymous No.9554361]

4 chapters into Neuromancer
what did I think of it so far?

[Anonymous No.9554416]

>>9554308
Brooks is kinda bland. He repeats the same basic plot 3 or so times in that series. Elfstones of Shannara is my favorite of the early Shannara books.

[Anonymous No.9554714]

>>9548752
Anyone read this book? Want to discuss this.

[Anonymous No.9554726]

>>9554361
You thought it was good.

[Anonymous No.9554727]

>ctrl+f baxter
>0 results
The lack of Stephen Baxter in these is always a disappointment. The Xeelee books, the Manifold trilogy, The Light of Other Days. He gets one mention in one of the scifi charts for The Time Ships, which is definitely amazing, but just a sequel to another author's work.
Sometimes I feel so disappointed in this board.

[Anonymous No.9554737]

>try to get into Sanderson's shit
>can't
Guy doesn't know what emotions are, it seems.

[Anonymous No.9554768]

So what is the animest fantasy novel you got, /sffg/?

[Anonymous No.9554779]

>>9554737
sadly there is no cure for autism

[Anonymous No.9554790]

>>9552906
The Ikureis are an important cipher to understanding the deeper current beneath the Holy War - and to understanding Kellhus. Would you say the Skineaters weren't important, too?

[Anonymous No.9554792]

>>9554727
Is Evolution by Baxter good? Someone gave it to me as a gift years ago and it's just been sitting there collecting dust.

[Anonymous No.9554825]

>>9554792
It's brilliant. It covers a very wide spread of time, distant past to far future, with quite interesting stories for each era.

[Anonymous No.9554831]

>>9548836
How is A Shadow in Summer?

[Anonymous No.9554836]

Because of SFFG, I endured the first two books of The First Law, and The Name of the Wind. Absolute horse shit, the both of them.

Now, thanks to SFFG, I am enjoying Gardens of the Moon. You have redeemed yourselves. Well done.

[Anonymous No.9554841]

>>9554836
>I am enjoying Gardens of the Moon. You have redeemed yourselves. Well done.
Enjoy Deadhouse Gates. It's all downhill from there.

[Anonymous No.9554863]

>>9554841
really? that's a damn shame. is that your opinion, or is it an opinion shared by many people?

[Anonymous No.9554868]

>>9554863

I think he's wrong. Deadhouse Gates wasn't that great.
Enjoy Memories of Ice. It's all downhill from there.

[Anonymous No.9554872]

>>9554868
really? that's a damn shame. is that your opinion, or is it an opinion shared by many people?

[Anonymous No.9554883]

>>9554872
By every objective standard it gets significantly worse after the first 4 books. At which book it starts is subjective, but pretty much everyone can agree book 5 sucked.

[Anonymous No.9554884]

>>9554863
The quality of writing doesn't really get worse, but Erikson just kept adding too much shit. Even halfway through the series he's still introducing new main characters and story arcs instead of resolving what already started. There's also the expectation that keeping up with the ridiculous amount simultaneous arcs will lead to some kind of huge payoff, but it just didn't.

[Anonymous No.9554890]

>>9554883

>book 5

What a fucking nightmare that was. A thousand times worse than The Name of the Wind and that says a lot.

[Anonymous No.9554892]

>>9554883
>>9554884
I'm sad to hear it. can you recommend any books similar in size and detail but that actually reach a resolution?

[Anonymous No.9554898]

>>9554892

>any books similar in size and detail but that actually reach a resolution?

I hope you know that doesn't exist, anon. Even Malazan, with all its faults, is still up there among the best. There just isn't a lot of good epic fantasy.

[Anonymous No.9554899]

>>9554890
>Establish a bunch of interesting characters and plotlines
>Completely abandon them with no warning for an entire book to instead focus on le funny reddit man and his morose sidekick
>Spend half the book on stupid dick jokes

Book 5 was a mistake. That entire plotline was terrible.

[Anonymous No.9554903]

>>9554892
It's not the same scale but check out The Black Company. I don't think the whole series is actually done but the books are structured in a way that actually gives you closure.

Although I though the quality really declined when the narrator changed for a few books

[Anonymous No.9554913]

>>9554714
i watched the movie, i still need to read it

[Anonymous No.9554916]

>>9554062
We wuz kingz is setup for the rest of the books in the series so it's starts off really slow. Nice payoff at the end though.

Also, don't get startled

[Anonymous No.9554918]

Is it worth going on with this series past the first trilogy? I loved the first three books, but the 4th was so annoying I had to stop reading. It felt nothing like the first three.

[Anonymous No.9554920]

>>9554361

You thought it was chrome and misfiring circuits in the Japanese night

[Anonymous No.9554932]

Are there any fantasy or whatever that are just long anime tournament arcs?

[Anonymous No.9554938]

>>9554932
Harry Potter.

[Anonymous No.9554961]

>>9554913
I'd recommend it solely for the ideas and themes, Genocidal Organ too.

[Anonymous No.9554969]

>>9554961
i will read it then, but genocidal organ... man i had been waiting for so long for the movie, i dont know if i should read it first.

How is the translation? that is my only fear about really

[Anonymous No.9555002]

>>9554969
Pretty good I'd say. If you didn't know who wrote it, you'd think it was written in English. Also since I saw Harmony, I'd say read it. There are lots of ideas, exposition and inner monologue and anime or visual medium really can't do them justice. Plus in Genocidal Organ lead is an annoyingly introspective faggot but then he has all these surreal flashbacks and dreams and I think they'll probably cut that out to condense the movie. I think Itoh was trying to draw inspiration from Kafka's work and it does have Kafkaesque feel to it in terms of visual aesthetics and mc being introspective. And they are not really that long.

[Anonymous No.9555010]

>>9554883
>but pretty much everyone can agree book 5 sucked
You have shit taste. Book 5 introduces some of my favorite characters.

[Anonymous No.9555012]

>>9554892
You should keep reading Malazan until you no longer enjoy it. Don't just listen to people here blindly. There's tons of retards with stupid opinions here, you'd have to be super gullible to take what they say at face value.

[Anonymous No.9555015]

>>9554022
One of the densest and most frightfully dull books I ever attempted to read. I can't imagine what kind of mood I would have to be in to pick up a book like that but I'd certainly never read it for fun.

[Anonymous No.9555021]

>>9555015
t. brainlet

[Anonymous No.9555022]

>>9552622
Lawrence really likes his "it's fantasy but actually the far future" shtick. I was excited when I heard he started a new series in a different setting but it's basically the same kinda gimmick.

[Anonymous No.9555024]

>>9552524
I was never "completely confused" at any point in my reading of the series. Because I read fantasy and sci-fi a lot I'm used to unfamiliar terms and concepts that have to be explained by the author. If I don't understand something right off, I don't get all bitchy about it, it makes me curious and I want to read more. It sounds more like you just have a really bad attitude for reading series like this. You have no sense of wonder.

[Anonymous No.9555028]

>>9555021
I understood it just fine. I majored in English, I've read and synthesized far more complex texts than anything Wolfe ever wrote. But I didn't enjoy reading them, and I don't enjoy Wolfe's prose. It feels like eating cement with a spoon.

[Anonymous No.9555033]

>>9555028
>I've read and synthesized far more complex texts than anything Wolfe ever wrote
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuureeee sweeetie

[Anonymous No.9555088]

>>9555015
>Wolfe
>frightfully dull
What kind of hyperpleb do you have to be to reach this conclusion?
>I understood it just fine
Which deity is Severian an incarnation of? Protip; Jesus is a potential answer but not the only one.

[Anonymous No.9555116]

>>9548836
I would consider The Worm Oruboros, some Lafferty and Latro and Peace to finish almost everything Wolfe wrote, but I've got a lot of pressing philosophy to read this year. Will maybe throw one of these in while on vacation to read at the beach. Lafferty is pretty pulpy so he may be the best pick.

[Anonymous No.9555122]

>>9551026
No, it's actually The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories. And the title story isn't all that hard, but may be one of the best things he ever wrote. It isn't particularly hard to understand. His other stores often are, especially Seven American Nights.

[Anonymous No.9555131]

>>9555122
The complete collection is The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories but the story on its own, which is what I was referring to. is The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories.

[Anonymous No.9555162]

>>9552562
Why? I want to read that shit before finishing the series, there's no point afterwwards

[Anonymous No.9555163]

>>9555088
Severian isn't an incarnation of Christ, Wolfe explicity denied it. The Increate is Christ, the Word that became flesh, which is not Sev, the Pancreator is God the Father. The word Increate he picked up form I believe st. Athanasius of Alexandria and his Four discourses againest the Aryans, it's the first record of the word that I know of, translated by John Henry Newman who he almost certainly read (hard to be a Catholic and a well read one without reading him).
But yes, Book of the New Sun is not nearly as dense as people make it out to be, the perspective jumbles it up a bit but the writing itself is crystal clear and beautiful without being intentionally difficult. It only requires attention, but all good books require that.

[Anonymous No.9555172]

>>9555163
>Stevian is christ incarnation

fuck off what are you even talking about, go shill your shitty books somewhere else

[Anonymous No.9555178]

>>9555163
What are your thoughts on the link between Severian and Apu Panchau? Both are associated with the sun and Severian's home is described as a very South America-like environment. I like it because it suggests that salvation is universal and raises the book well above pure Catholic propaganda.

>>9555172
Anon your meme-text is gibberish.

[Anonymous No.9555180]

>>9555172
Still not done from shitting this thread up since last night, huh?

[Anonymous No.9555198]

>>9555178
Well Severian was a sort of an old testament prophet, bringing destruction and then rebirth of Urth. He was The New Sun, meaning they filled him up with a white hole which he put in the sun and revived it killing most of the population in the process. He was as close to a son god as anyone might get to I guess. And it wasn't salvation and I doubt any Catholic will argue for universal salvation in good faith, especially not someone like Wolfe who clearly exibits strong influence of thomist metaphysics, which is incredibly obvious whenever he speaks of God and in the Long Sun describes a mystical vision. The oneness of pure actuality and the 4 causes are very prominent in his work.

[Anonymous No.9555252]

>>9555178
>>9555180
Shit sorry I just woke up, misread Severian for Stevian

[Anonymous No.9555254]

>>9555252
It's ok anon. I apologise.

[Anonymous No.9555272]

>>9555024

I have no sense of wonder? There are fucking ancient poems that would require less footnotes than Malazan. I want my sense of wonder to come from the vastness of the world-building, not from being unable to understand how the fucking magic system works without consulting a wiki. It's not a matter of it starting in medias res and requiring a few hours of commitment until it makes sense. It's that a normal person that's reading it over the course of a month or so would have no way of keeping track without a pen and paper at the ready.

I don't know what kind of twisted faggot you have to be to look at something that's badly written and claim it's some masterful work of art that doesn't spoonfed you. There's being spoonfed, and then there's being a stupid nigger that can't present his world properly.

Just compare him to Martin. What, is ASoIaF spoonfed to you? Do you have blocks of text all over? Of course fucking not. But the basics--what Westeros is, what the Wall is, who the big players are--are established incredibly early on. That doesn't mean there's nothing else to wonder about. Clearly, you wouldn't have autists like Preston dissecting it if it were.

Malazan is the exact fucking opposite. I could tell you about the races, the characters, the locations... But ask me something basic like, "How do them magicks worken?" and I'd be dumbfounded.

Just look at this shit. Are you going to be so disingenuous as to imply that if I stopped you at a random point during your reading of House of Chains and asked you to draw this diagram and explain to me where the warrens come from, how they work, and what their importance is, you could've done so? Fucking of course not. Yet I bet you could've drawn me a family tree of the Westeros families within the first quarter of Game of Thrones.

[Anonymous No.9555275]

>>9554868
enjoy the fantasy novel you enjoyed before gardens of the moon, its all downhill from there

[Anonymous No.9555280]

>>9555275

really? that's a damn shame. is that your opinion, or is it an opinion shared by many people?

[Anonymous No.9555400]

>>9554884
>There's also the expectation that keeping up with the ridiculous amount simultaneous arcs will lead to some kind of huge payoff, but it just didn't.
How so?
>>9554883
It was hard to follow, but bad it was not.

[Anonymous No.9555418]

>>9555272
My problem is that even once you find out more about the world, it's not really interesting. Someone once said that Erikson is an anthropologist, but it doesn't show at all. He has very little interesting things to say about that field other than his whole "dis nigga became dis nigga" evolution shit. His whole thing about warrens and magic just read like anime rule of cool bullshit, with nothing thematically interesting.

For example, it would be amazing if the idea of Warrens were tied to a cosmic horror subtext. But no, it's just as a matter of fact stuff

[Anonymous No.9555483]

>>9555418

Yeah, it's all deeply uninteresting. I know that he made the setting with his friend before he started working on the books, and I wonder that's why. Whenever I read the series I can't help but feel what they truly wanted to do was write a setting for a game--even an anime. I can see all the warren stuff working in something like Hunter x Hunter.

[Anonymous No.9555490]

Hey guys, I just finished The Once and Future King and soon after, I learned that there is a fifth book called Book of Merlin. Is it necessary to to read the fifth book because I really wanted to know what fate King Arthur had at the end. Also, I think the part when Wart was talking to the rolled porcupine was cute~~

[Anonymous No.9555492]

>>9551031
Gaskun isn't bad. Sure it's space opera for teen but he's created his own world

[Anonymous No.9555495]

is The House of the Borderland worth reading?

[Anonymous No.9555496]

>>9555492
That is bad though.

[Anonymous No.9555505]

Can anybody recommend me something similar to the videogame Pathologic?

[Anonymous No.9555516]

I tried getting into Sanderson's Stormlight Archive series due to getting a lot of recommendations for it, but the shit is getting worse and worse after a good start. Shallan especially is unlikable as fuck to the point where I tend to speed through her chapters.

[Anonymous No.9555518]

>>9551031
Peter Hamilton

[Anonymous No.9555554]

>>9555555
I agree, To Kill a God is the best book I've ever read

[Anonymous No.9555555]

Can we add to kill a god to the charts

[Anonymous No.9555560]

>>9555516

>taking the ironic sanderson recommendations seriously

You deserve this. Have you listened to that guy speak? He's a complete tool. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's a bad person or bad at what he does, he's a better writer than anyone on /lit/--but he targets a specific audience of normies that demand adherence to certain tropes.

And while Branderson is a competent writer and seems like a nice guy, he's not that bright.

[Anonymous No.9555563]

>>9555555
CHECKED

Add it now.

[Anonymous No.9555567]

>>9555555
>tfw when Steve has won

[Anonymous No.9555568]

>>9555555
CHECKED

[Anonymous No.9555571]

>>9555555

[Anonymous No.9555583]

>>9555516

Yeah you gotta power through that part, and you'll be hooked.

[Anonymous No.9555613]

>>9555418
>anthropologist
Archaeologist, which sort of shows through the many references to ancient things, lost civilizations, etc.

[Anonymous No.9555623]

>>9555613

Like what? Everything in those books could be picked up in a single day of watching the History Channel.

[Anonymous No.9555631]

>>9555554
>>9555555

wait a minute

[Anonymous No.9555632]

>>9555554
>>9555555
HIROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.9555634]

>>9554918
I'd say so

The ending is brilliant

[Anonymous No.9555638]

>>9555623
The age of the Imass, the warren of Shadow (filled with ruins and ashes), the many layers of Y'Gathan, ruins all over Seven Cities, I don't know.

[Anonymous No.9555657]

>>9555638

But how are those connected with his profession? I just can't tell what you're seeing in there that we couldn't get right now out of watching a documentary. I get that you're saying that the things he's focused on shows his background, but I'm saying that he never used his background in the writing of those books. There's never a Moby Dick tier scene where a guy is digging up bones and you feel what it's like to be an archaeologist. It's just some typical fantasy crap.

[Anonymous No.9555686]

>>9555634

Can you give me a good tease or something? I want to be motivated. And don't worry, I don't care that much about spoilers.

[Anonymous No.9555726]

>>9555686
It's basically a super traditional fantasy ending but one that's done really well.

Although if you didn't like the books moving away from Covenant being a raping dickhead you might not like it because the last couple of books are all life affirming and shit.

[Anonymous No.9555741]

>>9555726

The problem was the opposite, really. I felt it suddenly got gloomy as fuck, and him falling in love with that female character as soon as she's introduced was super bothersome.

Just spoiler me on how it ends, god damn it.

[Anonymous No.9555810]

>>9555554
>>9555555
Based KoG is a Stevian bro.

[Anonymous No.9555816]

I've been collecting overdrive library cards

[Anonymous No.9555821]

>>9555810
KoG?

[Anonymous No.9555826]

>>9555272
>magic system
Okay anon, I understand now. You just need to realize that Malazan wasn't written for you. There's a guy named Brandon Sanderson that writes what you crave. Look him up and enjoy!

[Anonymous No.9555827]

>>9555821
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk4TgmeVF4o

[Anonymous No.9555832]

>>9555657
Why would he write to make us feel what it's like to be an archaeologist? He can use that background to immerse us in the world, why immerse us in his profession?

Doesn't his background show in that the world has had countless civilizations built upon the civilization before it? Gradual development of species through the ages? Do you remember the unwitnessed theme and how these huge events eventually would just be another sentence in a history book, if recorded at all?
Do his books not allude to history in any greater extent than most other books?
The digging up you mentioned is pretty much Y'Ghatan, don't you think?

[Anonymous No.9555858]

Erikson fans are easily the touchiest in this general

[Anonymous No.9555864]

>>9555516
This means that your tastes are better than you initially had thought, and should move into better things

[Anonymous No.9555868]

>>9555826

Sanderson might be a normie but he's still leagues above Erikson as a writer (I don't mean his prose, but the ability to conveying a story effectively). Stop being so ass-blasted about your favorite writer being an incompetent hack.

>>9555832

Except he doesn't immerse you into the world one bit. Fucking Bakker is a million times superior when it comes to world-building and detailing the various cultures in the Three Seas, and that guy's a fucking philosopher. Granted, Bakker is the best fantasy author since Tolkien so that's probably an unfair example, but still.

>...Do his books not allude to history in any greater extent than most other books?...

Again, that's an idea. I could easily see another author writing a similar work without being in any way immersed into archaeology as a profession. Especially since the current fantasy meme is to write things as close to historical fiction as possible.

There's nothing in these books that makes me think, "Nobody could've written them better." Many people could've. Ironically to what that retard was saying above, I have no doubt that someone like Sanderson could've done a better job with Malazan. Because he's a tool that would've just done everything in his power to get it right, which includes consulting other authors and professional historian/archaeologists/anthropologists, etc.

And this is my problem with the Malazan series. The story is okay at best, the prose is alright, and nothing of Erikson himself shines through that another couldn't imitate. I seriously doubt it would be this popular if there was any competition at all.

[Anonymous No.9555880]

>>9555858
Just trying to understand the man, dude.
>>9555868
Alright then.

[Anonymous No.9555881]

>tfw I just read through 193 posts in the past 2 hours
Fuck. Why you guys bothering with the guy who didn't like Malazan, or Prince of nothing?
It's obvious they read both books expecting things that isn't in either.

The Malazan denouncer wants hand outs, hand holding, and magic systems on Sanderson's level(clear and well explained from the get go, with the pros and cons dumped in your lap).

The Prince of gri anon wants everything to happen for a reason. Protip anon, in life shit happens. People are raped, get over it, and die of old age. They don't go on to bring down the government. So what if a family is wiped out when sonnie was looking for some cunny from mommy. They played their part.

[Anonymous No.9555883]

>>9555868
>Sanderson might be a normie but he's still leagues above Erikson as a writer
I enjoy both, you obviously don't enjoy Erikson's writing style.
>Stop being so ass-blasted about your favorite writer being an incompetent hack.
Oh, honey he's not even in my top ten.

[Anonymous No.9555898]

>>9555868
>nothing of Erikson himself shines through that another couldn't imitate
Why doesn't my author self insert more? All the others I read does it, erikson is just bad.

[Anonymous No.9555914]

>>9555898

Since when is having a voice self-insertion? Are you saying that every author with an inimitable style is just "self-inserting"?

>>9555883

I've enjoyed some parts of Malazan, but I've never been able to get into any of Sanderson's novels. Still, the fact that I genuinely wanted Malazan to work out and be amazing is probably why I'm often so critical of it and its author.
While I can't say I gave a shit about the world or Erikson's writing, I did like many of the characters.

[Anonymous No.9555916]

>>9555832
He doesn't really explore the historiography in such a mechanical way that makes it any more unique or interesting than any other author. Tolkien has been doing that same shit half a century ago.

For example, the other anon mentioned Sanderson: he's a shitty writer honestly and his stories are anime ass retarded, but his worldbuilding is fascinating (though autistic). Way of Kings is about a world where the wind is strong as fuck and ecosystems are literally built around giant rocks. He takes that fundamental gimmick and shows how not just civilizations, but also biospheres derive from it. It's a very Duneesque notion, but interesting nonetheless

[Anonymous No.9555952]

>>9555881

>The Prince of gri anon wants everything to happen for a reason. Protip anon, in life shit happens. People are raped, get over it, and die of old age. They don't go on to bring down the government. So what if a family is wiped out when sonnie was looking for some cunny from mommy. They played their part.

That wasn't my point, family. It's just that they were given an inordinate amount of screen-time, which is a clear indicator that they were meant to be weaved into a far more complex web of intrigue. And they were simply dumped, because Bakker couldn't figure out what to do with any of it afterwards. Compare that to Eleazaras, who serves a similar purpose, but gets an adequate page-count. As I said before to the other anon that said it's not surprising such things would happen as time goes on, what bothers me is that Bakker promotes the opposite story. That this is ubermensch brainchild that he's only put down after more than a decade of philosophizing and contemplation on it. Which is BULLSHIT.

And you misunderstood me on the Malazan shit too, because I'm the same guy. I am not talking about the Warrens insofar as them being part of a magic system. What I'm saying is that their backstory, and the way they relate to the mythos of Malazan is probably the most essential part of the story. Yet I can guarantee you that the majority of people that are going on Goodreads and giving these novels five out of five stars have no fucking idea what is truly going on behind the scenes.

[Anonymous No.9555958]

>>9555914
>Since when is having a voice self-insertion?
>why doesn't my author use his characters as a mouth piece to spew his political, social and religious beliefs
>I don't know where he stands on the /pol/pill
>this frightens me

[Anonymous No.9555962]

>>9555916
Fuck dune and fuck Tolkien. Fed up of you fuckers slipping those two trash into every conversation you can. Kys now.

[Anonymous No.9555965]

>>9555958
>>I don't know where he stands on the /pol/pill
>>this frightens me
That came out of nowhere.

[Anonymous No.9555967]

>>9555958

>strawmanning everything I say

You seem to be fucking retarded, child. WHAT I'M SAYING, is that a person that spends DECADES in a field of study has a different way to look at the world. If you're reading a book by an entomologist, he's going to stress the importance of bugs in the ecosystem, and likely teach you things you weren't aware of before.

NONE OF THIS is to be seen in Erikson's writing. I have never read a section that made me think differently about history or archaeology. Fucking nothing. Indiana Jones is probably more relevant to archaeology than Mazan. And that was my point. Not that he doesn't spew his political views or whatever the fuck it is you're trying to imply. His profession is completely irrelevant with regards to the development and feel of the novels.

[Anonymous No.9555972]

>>9555962

>fuck competent authors that matter

Yeah, you're right. Let's just talk about the quips master Erikson-sama. He might as well go write for Marvel, desu.

[Anonymous No.9555983]

>>9555952
>I can guarantee you that the majority of people that are going on Goodreads and giving these novels five out of five stars have no fucking idea what is truly going on behind the scenes.
Once you completed the 10 book series, and aren't related to low iq anon, you can explain it. It takes the completion of the series to get a full understanding. When you finish, you sit back and digest.

>That wasn't my point, family. It's just that they were given an inordinate amount of screen-time
Maybe he gave us a slice of life of one of the up and coming families, and their down fall. They played their part for both kellhus and dickgirls. Even if they were to survive, kellhus would have sent some of his zealots to take care of the matter after he consolidated power or read mommy's cunny boy's face and controlled him. They too much of an enemy to leave to their own devices.

[Anonymous No.9555997]

>>9555967
I thought the series could be summed up as history repeats itself.
>book about beings centuries if not millennia old
>old ass practices and customs being seem from tribes
>barrows filled with dead, and explanations on it
>shows how history is twisted by people and distorted over time
>beings finding old, OLD ass ruins, get it to work, occupy it
I don't think Erikson is for you, you either speedread, or skimmed through pages. Now you are bitching about shit that is very evident in the series.

[Anonymous No.9556002]

>>9555983

>Once you completed the 10 book series, and aren't related to low iq anon, you can explain it. It takes the completion of the series to get a full understanding. When you finish, you sit back and digest.

So you should read close to 10000 pages just to understand THE BASIC PREMISE OF THE STORY? Do you not see how silly this is? Jesus Christ.

>Maybe he gave us a slice of life of one of the up and coming families, and their down fall.

It wasn't a slice of life, nor did it cover the whole story down to their downfall. The reigning Ikurei pretty much went from being a quasi-MC in the first book to dying in a throwaway scene most readers likely don't even remember.

>Even if they were to survive, kellhus would have sent some of his zealots to take care of the matter after he consolidated power or read mommy's cunny boy's face and controlled him. They too much of an enemy to leave to their own devices.

Completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

[Anonymous No.9556008]

>>9555997

Yeah, and that's intrinsically related to working in the field as an archaeologist, amirite? And clearly themes that nobody else could've thought about...

[Anonymous No.9556022]

>>9556002
>THE BASIC PREMISE OF THE STORY?
Just read the first book, realize it's about based company with amazing characters doing shit, enjoy it, then find out that shit won't happen again and drop the series, while still loving the first book.

[Anonymous No.9556025]

>>9555952
I would like to see some measurements of pages of ikurei POV vs the relative importance of them being antagonists, windows into three seas politics, because that sounds like you're making a mountain of a molehill.

[Anonymous No.9556030]

>>9555490
Read it. It's the ending of Once and Future King.

[Anonymous No.9556037]

>>9555962
Wtf? Did you watch Herbert and Tolkien double team your dad or something? Because that's the only explanation for your arbitrary and inane comment

[Anonymous No.9556061]

>>9555983
I haven't finished Erikson, and am planning on dropping it after I finish book 3 because there is nothing interesting about his metastory. But I am interested in seeing someone who has finished it explain why it's so good. All I've heard it's "there's details hidden behind details!" Without any real justification. Feel free to spoil because there's nothing, aside from a total tonal and stylistic shift, that would convince me to continue.

[Anonymous No.9556066]

>>9556061

Seconding this. I'd also like to find out how it ends.

[Anonymous No.9556089]

>>9556061
I also dropped it after book 3 and nothing I've heard about it since then has made me regret the decision

[Anonymous No.9556102]

>>9548836
got an insane comic backlog right now so that goes first. and summer is coming here.

[Anonymous No.9556104]

Its time to confess anons.

What fantasy series did you actually enjoy despite /sffg/ telling you it was shit?

First Law was a nice ride. Glokta is fun as hell and Logen ended up being my favourite tank in fantasy

[Anonymous No.9556106]

>>9556102
>comics
These are the people we share /sffg/ with.

[Anonymous No.9556129]

>>9556061
Not OP, but I just liked it for what it was. Nothing amazing about it, I enjoyed being dropped in the middle of a world with no infodumps.
>>9556066
It doesn't really end, Erikson just decides not to replenish the POV pool after killing off everyone for the umpteenth time.

[Anonymous No.9556131]

>>9556106
I'll throw in a theory:
People complaining about less good science fiction and fantasy being written don't seem to realize that focus shifted to games, comics and manga/anime. The amount of good science fiction and fantasy hasn't changed, just the media. There have been shitloads of good science fiction and fantasy stories being released over the last 30 or so years but they weren't written down in novels or short stories but in comics, manga/anime and video games and that's why you ignore them.

[Anonymous No.9556135]

>>9556131
Anon pls

[Anonymous No.9556141]

>>9556106
People who enjoy other media loaded with sci-fi and fantasy? Woe is you.

[Anonymous No.9556143]

>>9556022

The first book was nice, yeah. It's completely different from the others. It reminded me a lot of those adventure cartoons I would watch every Saturday morning as a kid.

>>9556025

I feel you're misremembering how much time was spent on them. Or maybe you're just more lenient with regard to the way a story is structured.

[Anonymous No.9556146]

>>9556131

Ok, friend. I'll take this bait. Why don't you name me some supposedly good fantasy/sci-fi anime and manga?

[Anonymous No.9556158]

>>9556129

What happens to Mappo and Icarium?

[Anonymous No.9556165]

>>9556158
IIRC Mappo get's killed and Icarium activates the world ender but then turns it off or something, I forget. Icarium continues to roam the land with an assassin that claims he's been with him all along.

[Anonymous No.9556168]

>>9556131
Visual media does a better job of making fantasy worlds more tangible with less words and time by virtue of making them actually appear. It's why movie, TV, and video game adaptations of fantasy books become more popular than the books themselves.

[Anonymous No.9556178]

>>9556168
Why don't you just kill me now and end this mockery?

[Anonymous No.9556179]

>>9556165

I'm so happy I stopped. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.9556191]

>>9556179
Yeah if you wanted things tied up nicely then you're gonna have 10 1k page books to regret :3

[Anonymous No.9556200]

>>9556143
Yeah it was different ,Cropper was the best character in Malazan
>Fat guy with extremely great dialogue
Always cracked me up

[Anonymous No.9556211]

>>9556165
>>9556179
Wait, he ends up chilling with Ublala, a bit better. The final scene was him staring confusedly at Mappo's body and saying that he thought he remembered something.

[Anonymous No.9556222]

>>9556191

The strange thing is that whenever I've looked up no-spoiler reviews of the final books, they were always 10/10 and shit, with people raving about how perfect it all came together.

I've always theorized that the first book in a series is the only one with fair reviews. That's because the sane people drop off like flies, and it's only the cultists that stick around until the end. Especially if the series is niche.

[Anonymous No.9556241]

If I could never get into The Book of the New Sun, is it worth it to persevere? I stopped at the part where Severian and his girlfriend enter a huge greenhouse twice in a row. Is it just not for me, or am I so early on that I have no idea what the novels are even about?

[Anonymous No.9556244]

>>9556104
Belgariad/mallorea.

[Anonymous No.9556249]

>>9556146
Berserk.

[Anonymous No.9556250]

>>9556222
Honestly, with the stupid huge PoV count, he didn't do a bad job ending it. There's definitely payoff, but it isn't clean. If you read the whole thing you're probably either a true believer or a masochist like me (got the hardback set for dirt cheap and was gonna power through it no matter what).

[Anonymous No.9556286]

>>9556249

Except that Berserk falls apart after the first hundred chapters, and it's nowhere near in the same league as the many, many fantasy series talked about here. There's next to nothing that's comparable, and you know it. There's Berserk, Claymore (both of which turn to shit after a while)... and what else? Even fantasy novels based in particular IPs like Warcraft/Warhammer/Star Wars tend to be better than most fantasy done by Nips.

And I'm not being a snob. There's plenty of good anime and manga (sports, gambling, tournament slice of life, fucking ecchi), they just don't do fantasy in the grounded and world-building-focused Western tradition; their sci-fi is completely derivative and largely inferior. If one more person trying to convince me that LoGH or Texhnolyze are masterpieces I might just snap and kill a nigga.

[Anonymous No.9556289]

>>9556249
Not anymore it isn't. That shit has been going on for nearly thirty years and Miura is obviously tired of it.

[Anonymous No.9556308]

>>9556249
Related image >>9552915

[Anonymous No.9556314]

>>9556308

God damn.

[Anonymous No.9556325]

Are any of the Stargate books any good? Are there other similar books to look into?

[Anonymous No.9556326]

>>9556308
the boat ended last year.

[Anonymous No.9556396]

>>9556131
Shin megami tensei is the only cyberpunk thing worth anything desu

[Anonymous No.9556421]

>>9556131
I believe you are wrong, at least when it comes to games, for the simple reason that most of the popular and well selling fantasy games either adapted already existing material (Witcher series etc.) and the rest just had a shit story (Skyrim, etc.).

Anime obviously is no competition for actual books, it has mostly become 12 episode "EPIC MEME" shows or is pandering to 14 year olds (SAO).

[Anonymous No.9556437]

>>9556143
I think my point for you is that you did find out which passages you think are redundant, and I guarantee you someone will have a strong counter argument for why it's not redundant.

[Anonymous No.9556450]

>>9556421

It would be shitty to imply that Witcher or KotOR aren't original stories and that they're just "adapted." Same could be said for Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Bloodlines, etc. They always tend to borrow settings, but the stories in the games are their own stories.

And then you have completely original stuff like Legacy of Kain, which I think still holds up as one of the greatest fantasy stories of all time, and probably the best vampire/time-travel story of all time bar none.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBwvaHKTrgo

>The descent had destroyed me; and yet, I lived.

HNNNNNG

[Anonymous No.9556469]

I'm considering picking up Blindsight, finding out it has vampires has put me off a bit, are they used well?

[Anonymous No.9556471]

>>9556437

>I think my point for you is that you did find out which passages you think are redundant

They're not redundant because he went out of his way to convey certain information through those chapters. But while the Ikurei sections might hold important information (about the upcoming crusade and so on) that's not to say that it couldn't have been told in another way, through characters that matter to the story (like Proyas).

My whole point is that he ascribed a lot of importance to the dynasty in the first novel, and then they became second grade villains that got discarded.

Mind you, I'm not saying they shouldn't have died. What I'm saying is that you either do one or the other. You either commit to these PoVs you've grown in the first novel and give them a full characterization until the end, no matter what that end might be, or you drop the fluff and use them like the conflict-driving plots they are.

He did neither. He half-assed it. They were real people at first, and then they metamorphosed into tools. This has nothing to do with whether or not they ended up getting killed.

[Anonymous No.9556479]

>>9556450
>It would be shitty to imply that Witcher or KotOR aren't original stories and that they're just "adapted."
That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The anon I replied to theorized that a decline in Fantasy stories is the result of the popularity of video games. But this doesn't make much sense if a lot of the video games settings are a result of previous stories existing on which then a video game is build.

>Same could be said for Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Bloodlines, etc.
I specifically didn't want to bring these games into the discussion because they go against the current norm in video games, where games together with their settings are "dumbed down" to appeal to a wider market. (Just comparing Skyrim to Morrowind or even Oblivion, you will see that they were made with a significantly different audience in mind, same for things like Mass effect which is basically a shooter with an okay story and some role playing elements attached)
So I don't think they are representative of the current trend in video games (although things like pillars of eternity provide a small counter trend).

[Anonymous No.9556500]

>>9556469
>are they used well?
Yes.
I also had my doubts about that before reading the book, but Blindsight isn't cheesy science fantasy.
The idea of a "vampire" translates into a meaningful story element and (surprisingly) doesn't feel out of place.

The ebook is also freely available on the authors website and it is definitely worth a read.

[Anonymous No.9556504]

>>9556471
There is no rule in writing that says you need your POVs to be primary players in your grand story. They were primary players in the first book. And they had their due time in the first book, because of that. Notice how there are very little ikurei POVs in the second and third book? Because they're not important anymore.

And it's quite clear from the get go that these guys were chumps. Xerius was a megalomaniac, with rare bouts of competence. Even the forewords the ikurei chapters implied that these were not good/strong characters. They were just interesting characters with many flaws that happened to be in positions of power. This gave a window to three seas politics because it demonstrated the level of competence and incompetence kellhus would need to deal with. That's it. I have no idea where you get the impression that the ikureis were destined for something in the books. The books pretty much tell you that they are not.

So your argument falls flat because you misinterpreted a literary trope, and misconstrued it with your expectations. It's fine that you believe what you think, but understand why pretty much no other reader agrees with you because they never had your same expectations.

[Anonymous No.9556505]

>>9556479

>The anon I replied to theorized that a decline in Fantasy stories is the result of the popularity of video games

I wouldn't agree with that either. If anything, that should only make books more popular. The whole thing that got me into reading books was because they were better than games.

>Just comparing Skyrim to Morrowind or even Oblivion, you will see that they were made with a significantly different audience in mind, same for things like Mass effect which is basically a shooter with an okay story and some role playing elements attached

I wouldn't really agree about the story part there. The games might be streamlined as far as gameplay goes, but you can't tell me Morrowind was anything but a terribly written game. The majority of quests were MMO tier nonsense. Then again, the TES games have always had abysmal writing. Apart from a few games like the Dark Brotherhood chain in Oblivion and some other segments, they're pure shit.

Pillars of Eternity had a pretty meh main story. At first I thought the game would revolve around Eothas, which I thought was incredible. The whole backstory about him and that war was so cool.

[Anonymous No.9556521]

>>9556500
Cool, got the PDF, thanks.

[Anonymous No.9556543]

>>9556504

>They were primary players in the first book. And they had their due time in the first book, because of that. Notice how there are very little ikurei POVs in the second and third book? Because they're not important anymore.

How are they any less important in the second and third books than they are in the first? You're just projecting here. Going by the information offered to us in TDTCB, Conphas should've been one of the most decisive characters for the story of the first trilogy. What Bakker with him was a complete waste. And, again, what you're saying doesn't justify the amount of time spent on them in the first book, because none of the personal things we learn about them (like Xerius' fetishes, insecurities, feelings, etc.) are ever relevant in any way. Even if they were central to the plot, as you say they were, what was important about them could have easily been contained in a single chapter. Or given no PoVs at all.

>They were just interesting characters with many flaws that happened to be in positions of power. This gave a window to three seas politics because it demonstrated the level of competence and incompetence kellhus would need to deal with.

Again, we didn't need so many chapters to cover this, nor a direct PoV.

>I have no idea where you get the impression that the ikureis were destined for something in the books.

From the fact that Bakker spent so much time on them. There were far more important things to cover than how Xerius feels about his mommy if that wasn't going to go anywhere.

>So your argument falls flat because you misinterpreted a literary trope, and misconstrued it with your expectations.

The expectations aren't bred out of the depths of my solipsism. They exist because Bakker put them there. Maybe you don't mind an author wasting your time with inane subplots that go nowhere and throwaway characters. But I do. Especially when we're talking about a story of this scope. And it frustrates me because this has gotten even worse in Aspect-Emperor. The guy just meanders and focuses on "the journey" because he has no fucking idea where that journey is supposed to end.

[Anonymous No.9556565]

>>9556505
>but you can't tell me Morrowind was anything but a terribly written game.
You are certainly right and Elder scrolls was probably the wrong example there.
I was trying to make a point about modern games, which tend to be more focused on a streamlined player experience and ease of play.
Contrary to things like Baldur's Gate and such, where the focus is on actual role playing and not on pushing down the player either of 2 parts throwing in enough action to not bore people who ignore the story.
Which is certainly a sad trend for games as a whole, but probably very profitable.

[Anonymous No.9556575]

New thread:
>>9556572
>>9556572
>>9556572

[Anonymous No.9556650]

>>9555555
Check'd

[Anonymous No.9556877]

>>9556286
I don't think it's very fair to directly compare Manga and Novels in regards to world building. The entirety of Berserk maybe has the same amount of words as a single 250-page novel, and I'd say 90% of it is dialogue.