/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.9499424]

postmodernism ruined evrything

[Anonymous No.9499426]

i think irish people are just confused most of the time.
Its the lack of identity thing.
Post-modernism fucks with those types

[Anonymous No.9499431]

>>9499424
Is this the life invader office?

[Anonymous No.9499436]

>>9499426
I'm always confused and I blame Bret Easton Ellis.

[Anonymous No.9499437]

This photo is not postmodernism. Hipsters who do things ironically is a good example of mainstream postmodern culture. If anything, this sort of thing is a reaction against postmodern detachment, i.e. the direct opposite of what you're implying, you dumb stupid idiot.

[Anonymous No.9499440]

>>9499437
postmodernism ruined evrything

[Anonymous No.9499445]

>>9499426
>irish people
>lack of identity
Lol fuck off Nigel

[Anonymous No.9499447]

>>9499437
i thought we were critiquing the design and decoration of that room?
because it's gross

[Anonymous No.9499452]

>>9499445
nah it's true.
Most of them left and the other ones were betas who sucked britain's dick.
All they have is beer for culture, only adding to the confusion

[Anonymous No.9499467]

blame this guy

[Anonymous No.9499475]

Wrong. Post modernism is just a reaction to a decaying and dying civilization.

[Anonymous No.9499483]

>>9499475
That's very silly. It's a reaction to the fact that the trajectory that art and science and history have been taking since the beginning of modernity steered us straight into fascism and the holocaust.

[Anonymous No.9499487]

>>9499424
I don't see the problem here. Looks comfortable and welcoming.

[Anonymous No.9499494]

>>9499452
>betas who sucked britain's dick
LOL, you aren't confusing Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland, are you?

[Anonymous No.9499497]

>>9499424
The booths and chairs look sorta comfy. At least I like having chairs with corners, though I thing the backs should probably recline a little more.

[Anonymous No.9499498]

>>9499483
>modernity steered us straight into fascism and the holocaust
touché

[Anonymous No.9499503]

>>9499494
Looks like England to me. Care to point out one aesthetic detail in that picture that embodies Irish-ness?

[Anonymous No.9499517]

>>9499424

[Anonymous No.9499521]

>>9499517
God, I would love to run those sticky flags across my face and get meningitis.

[Anonymous No.9499522]

>>9499426
>Its the lack of identity thing.
The Irish are the only anglophones on the planet who still have an identity

[Anonymous No.9499524]

>>9499503
The point of the picture isn't Irish identity. The image is a British bomb specialist who is approaching a car that supposedly has a bomb planted in it. Planted by the IRA. How can you say Ireland is sucking Britain's dick when the IRA has existed for 100 years and virtually every Irish political party wishes to reunify Ireland? You have to be acting retarded on purpose.

[Anonymous No.9499529]

>>9499522
where are you from?

[Anonymous No.9499534]

>>9499524
Ok boss, sorry I'm not intimately familiar with the history and politics of your serf island.

[Anonymous No.9499535]

>>9499529
How is that at all relevant? I'm from Botswana.

[Anonymous No.9499547]

>>9499475
Post modernism is the cause of the dying west.

[Anonymous No.9499553]

>>9499534
Well, I had assumed you were British, and I would have thought that Brits would learn about the Troubles in school, since it involved Northern Irish who are British citizens, and was only a couple decades ago, unless I'm wrong and you didn't since the British don't give a single shit about Northern Ireland, or you're some retarded LARPing anglophile that lives in canada or some other cuck commonwealth country. Which is it, boss?

[Anonymous No.9499584]

>>9499553
We don't learn about the Troubles because it might cause "racism against Irish" or some nonsense.
Tis the same reason we don't learn about much of our own history.

[Anonymous No.9499589]

>>9499553
>lives in canada
oh SHIT

who said I was LARPing though? Idc about this shit on a personal level, I just agree with that >>9499452 guy

[Anonymous No.9499910]

>>9499426
im half irish can confirm I am very confused most of the time

[Anonymous No.9499923]

>>9499553
Eireaboo here what's the best way to learn gaelic

[Anonymous No.9499988]

>>9499547
I'd argue that it's the complete opposite. You can't help stupid. But post-modernism opens vistas to write about and into any subject without restraint. It's simply liberating.

[Anonymous No.9500006]

>>9499988
It's liberating because it erodes at the foundations which hold Western society together.
You can only do that for so long before it all collapses.

[Anonymous No.9500010]

>>9500006
Although, an post-modernist essay on post-modernism could potentially still be post-modernist to the point of resonated with the laymen's common sense. Nobody loses. If you catch my drift.

[Anonymous No.9500015]

I'm starting to really, really hate google. It's a useful service, for sure, but I can't stand their corporate "ethos."

See also: Cuck Zuckerberg

[Anonymous No.9500032]

>>9499424
Not even playing real guitars. I hate this manchild shit.

[Anonymous No.9500438]

>>9499553
>the British don't give a single shit about Northern Ireland

it's this one.

[Anonymous No.9500475]

>>9499424
There has been an explosion of new construction techniques and materials and tech etc.

What we're seeing in modern architecture is naive art and mud huts. Nobody knows what they're doing with this new stuff.

The answer must be to embrace the new materials in our pursuit of beauty.

[Anonymous No.9500572]

>>9500000

[Anonymous No.9500577]

But that's a modernist interior

[Anonymous No.9500757]

>>9499553
Brits don't care about Northern Ireland.

t. Brit

He really should have known what that image was though, even as a fucking leaf.
>>9499584
That's not even remotely true. Stop spreading /pol/-tier memes.
>>9500006
Society's weakness is my strength &c.

[Anonymous No.9500768]

>>9500577
i'd love to see how you differentiate modern and post modern architecture (don't bring in deconstruction)

[Anonymous No.9500770]

>>9500475
This is the most hopeful thing I've read about post-modernism. I pray you are right.

[Anonymous No.9500781]

>>9500768
>durr delineate two things but don't use a well documented signature of one of the two XDDDD

[Anonymous No.9500786]

>>9500781
i kinda consider deconstruction a distinct branch of post-modernism.
Post-modernism as a whole is really just advancing the strong parts of modernism (albeit sometimes to a negative extent as in the OP's image), deconstruction on the other hand is just playing god in a careless way just to say you can

On one hand I would say the image is somewhat a combination of the two, but even still it would be dumb arrogant and self-serving to make a snarky comment aobut how "thats clearly a modernist design"
faggot.

[Anonymous No.9500787]

>>9499503
It says God instead of Allah

[Anonymous No.9500790]

>>9499522
kek, the Irish music scene will be dominated by black rappers by the year 2025. Your going to get dragged into Stand on Zanzibar just like the rest of us.

[Anonymous No.9500795]

I wish more artists today were like Julie Mehretu.

She is very abstract and post-modern, but still firmly planted in the whole history of art.

Very few people even manage to straddle the line between standing on the shoulders of giants before you and yet be innovative. Especially in the era where a glove lying on the floor of a museum is mistaking for an artpiece.

[Anonymous No.9500799]

>>9500768
Modern architecture involves the restructuring of traditional architectural forms in order to expand upon the possible utility of said forms. In OP's picture, all negative and positive space is being used (and was evidently designed) to meet the demands of the prospective inhabitants of said space, with a clear intention for multiple congruent uses of each installation.

Postmodernism architecture would then be restructuring those forms to deliberately subvert the expected use of said architectural forms, and aside from deconstruction is pretty uncommon because it intentionally makes the space uncomfortable or unwelcoming to use.

[Anonymous No.9500803]

this is what the future looks like with braindead leftards in charge

[Anonymous No.9500817]

>>9500799
To clarify, the only thing in that picture that doesn't seem to serve a purpose beyond subversion is the balsa wood shit hanging from the ceiling, but seeing as it serves no purpose whatsoever and subsequently has nothing to subvert, it can really only be called kitsch.

[Anonymous No.9500823]

>>9500817
its subverting the non-anxiety inducing air of that room.
Don't overly intellectualize the difference between modern and post-modernism.
It's literally always a self-serving mistake that no one else will give a shit about understanding.

[Anonymous No.9500831]

>>9500823
>hurr betcha cant delineate these two aesthetic ideals
>bbbut don't use this clear example of aesthetic delineation between the two!
>DURRR STOP TRYING TO DELINEATE BETWEEN THE TWO THINGS FAGGOT
Off yourself

[Anonymous No.9500836]

>>9500831
nah i think it's just foolish to make deconstructionism the key component of post-modernism.
It's not entirely accurate.
You just wanted to play smart-guy. nice try you worthlessly educated half-man.

[Anonymous No.9500837]

>>9499424

>2017
>Still thinking postmodernism is a cause when it is only a symptom

[Anonymous No.9500843]

>>9500795
>mistaking
It was the ultimate art piece.

[Anonymous No.9500850]

>>9500836
And you're getting butthurt about what, exactly? The only one who was talking about deconstruction was you, and now you're just platinum mad that someone took you up on your bet.

Guess what, turns out there's not a postmodernist boogeyman hiding under your bed, jumping out and creating forms of expression you don't like just to ensure that your life is so unbearably shit.

[Anonymous No.9500852]

>>9500795
That looks like shit to me, honestly.

[Anonymous No.9500853]

>>9500850
you're the one whose butthurt. Your post made me lol from the projection. what boogeyman?
I frankly don't give a shit about post modernism as a whole because i kinda don't think it exists.
My beef is with deconstructionism, the point being, as you conceded, that it's influences were on display.
I just find your whole snarky "umm thats modernism not post..." attitude detestable

[Anonymous No.9500857]

>>9500852
Why?

[Anonymous No.9500858]

>>9500852
So what? I don't give a shit if you think it looks shit. She's still an artist.

Do you have problems recognizing musician's skill and creativity even though you don't like their music, or are you that blind and autistic?

[Anonymous No.9500860]

>>9500853
>says that people giving earnest definitions of words and applying those definitions to reality is 'snarky'
>claims postmodernism doesn't exist
>invents a concession of claims when no concession was made
I'm sensing some MERELY PRETENDING in the near future

[Anonymous No.9500862]

>>9499437
If it's the direct opposite, then why is everyone getting even more gangly, malnourished, nerdy, casual, undisciplined, and open to trying pegging?

[Anonymous No.9500869]

>>9500860
not at all.
The point was and always has been that this building had disgusting elements of post-modernism at its heart, mostly a deconstructive element.
I was challeging you to to prove to me without using that keyword "deconstruction" that you could define the difference between modern and post, and you could not.
You had to use deconstruction.
It's therefore a post-modern design.
stay mad baby-man.

[Anonymous No.9500875]

>>9500858
>Do you have problems recognizing musician's skill and creativity even though you don't like their music, or are you that blind and autistic?

Jesus christ just chill the fuck out. Are you sure you aren't autistic?

The painting's just not my cup of tea, all right?

>Why?

I dunno just not my kind of aesthetic. Just viscerally. The composition doesn't really do much for me. I'm no art expert though.

[Anonymous No.9500877]

>>9500875
Fair enough.

[Anonymous No.9500881]

>>9500875
>I dunno I just dunt like it
And you expect us to care about your opinion?

[Anonymous No.9500883]

>>9500795
Because innovation is a concern of modernism, not postmodernism. Also abstraction is modernist.

[Anonymous No.9500889]

>>9500006
Those foundations erode themselves. Postmodernism is the logical conclusion to the inadequacy of modernist ways of thinking and models of nature, it isn't some outside plot.

[Anonymous No.9500892]

>>9500869
>being this unable to read

>aside from deconstruction [postmodern architecture] is pretty uncommon because it intentionally makes the space uncomfortable or unwelcoming to use.
This has nothing to do with separating Modernism and PoMo architecture you actual fucking illiterate. It's just a tangential statement about the rate of occurrence of one ELEMENT of postmodernism, and a conjecture on why that rate is what it is. Divorcing deconstruction from postmodernism as you claim does not in any way effect my breakdown of the specific architectural principles in OP's picture, which you'd know if you were capable of sentient thought.

You just punched in 'ctrl+ f deconstruction' and declared yourself correct.

Fucking hell how does this board suffer from critical thinking flaws this badly

[Anonymous No.9500895]

>>9500853
He wasn't the one who made the original post about it being a modernist interior, that was me, he just jumped in to clarify WHAT YOU ASKED HIM to clarify, seems ridiculous to now complain about the distinction he made and that you asked for

[Anonymous No.9500897]

>>9500883
RATIONAL innovation is a concern of modernism.

Rationalism has nothing to do with art, unless you're making Socialist realism.

[Anonymous No.9500900]

>>9499547
No that would be empiricism, what follows is God's divine punishment.

[Anonymous No.9500904]

>>9500897
Nope, artistic innovation. Literally what the avant-garde is.

[Anonymous No.9500908]

>>9500892
Jesus christ you write like a faggot.
Youre obviously very educated in retarded semantics but you still miss very basic points.
You could break it down any way oyu like but the building is a post-modern design on the simple fact that it was made by Google in the modern age with some clear deconstructive influences.
You provided definitions to defend a very narrow presupposed, snarky little opinion that you hadn't even fully considered and are now very mad because i am aware that you care so much about how smart you can seem while saying nothing.

[Anonymous No.9500909]

innovation has been a thing in art since art was a thing you fucking uberspergs

[Anonymous No.9500912]

Modernism and PoMo are just a conglomerate of different developments in different fields that should be clearly seperated into their individual parts. Metafiction =/= Dadaism =/= Minimalism and so forth

[Anonymous No.9500913]

>>9500904
Avant-Garde is shitting on the desk

Jokes aside, 99% of 'Avant-Garde' is actually Apres-Garde and just not popular enough for the influencing work to be quickly recognized

[Anonymous No.9500914]

>>9500909
Is that why Byzantine mosaics stayed the same for 1000 years?

[Anonymous No.9500915]

>>9500904
I know that's what the avant-garde is, but in practice pomo's just claim what they are doing isn't innovation and yet it is.

You can't escape the framework of conceptualization in art just because you say so out loud.

[Anonymous No.9500919]

>>9500908
Goddamn stay mad
>WAAHHH ITS POMO BECAUSE I SAID SO
>EVEN THOUGH POMO DOESNT REAL AND DECONSTRUCTION ISNT PART OF IT
>FUCKING GOOGLE CORPORATE KEKS RUINING THE WORLD T. GUY POSTING ON THE INTERNET
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.9500921]

>>9500909
Not really, especially not Innovation for the sake of Innovation, or, in the case of PoMo, "innovation" "for the sake of" "innovation"

[Anonymous No.9500927]

>>9500919
I did not say any of that. Post modernism is just a run off of modernism and deconstruction is a facet/extension of that, but not the key factor.
But i literally work at google and make 150,000 a year so yeah, stay mad and enjoy your art degree big boy.

[Anonymous No.9500930]

>>9500912
This
For fucks sake

The great irony is that this idea of just conglomerating aesthetic movements, is in and of itself pretty philosophically post-modern. It speaks to a deep seated cynicism and is expressed through an intentional misrepresentation of thought.

[Anonymous No.9500934]

>>9500915
Postmodernism is a kind of 'final innovation' but there hasn't been real innovation in art since the early 70s. Think of the difference between Cubism in the 20s and Abstract Expressionism in the 60s for a similar timeframe of innovation. Postmodernism was an escape from the depthless historicising and labelling by art critics where painting was judged by how it improved on the painting that came before. It allowed for earlier artists into the art canon like Duchamp who did not feature in Greenberg's aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.9500935]

>>9500927
Sure thing bud

[Anonymous No.9500939]

>>9500927
>Google worker
>is insecure and argues with anons on a Mongolian horse archery forum
That actually checks out.

[Anonymous No.9500944]

>>9500930
It's the tracing of trajectories in art rather than hierarchical origins and conclusions. It isn't necessarily conglomerative.

[Anonymous No.9500949]

>>9500934
To frame pomo as an intentional or planned movement is pretty misleading; though its certainly become such since its inception. Duchamp is probably one of the earliest intentional postmodernists in art (though I'll admit my art history scope is fairly limited)

[Anonymous No.9500950]

>>9500935
i wanna emphasize how much i lol @ how mad you are though. I'm not lying about the google thing either. I have extensive art-world connections, and own my own gallery too.
But no, you know the literal definitions of amorphous art movements.
Gj you worthless faggot.

[Anonymous No.9500951]

>>9500944
That's a historicist approach, one that would ironically be rejected by post-modern thought

[Anonymous No.9500954]

>>9500927
>But i literally work at google

my condolences...

[Anonymous No.9500955]

>>9500914
>>9500921
Just so you're aware, this on the scale of saying "socialism = welfare state" in terms of "you know so little about what you're talking about that you literally should just read a book".

[Anonymous No.9500958]

>>9500955
I am now aware of your directionless critique of my response, thanks

[Anonymous No.9500963]

>>9500927
>and make 150,000 a year
I can see you clearly have your priorities in order.

[Anonymous No.9500964]

>>9500950

[Anonymous No.9500967]

>>9500950

[Anonymous No.9500972]

>>9500963
i hope youre being sarcastic.
I'm actually a very successful artist and programmer with extensive interest in law, psychology, and literature.
I'm on the cutting-edge as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous No.9500977]

>>9500934
What do you mean by there haven't been any real innovation in art though?

Because anything that has never been done before is by definition an innovation, which I'm just going to assume by induction has happened since the 1970s.

[Anonymous No.9500978]

>>9500972
>literature

what, like Dune? lol.

[Anonymous No.9500980]

>>9500972
Yeah the cutting edge of a razor hopefully

[Anonymous No.9500982]

>>9500972
You're not on the cutting edge of self-awareness for sure

[Anonymous No.9500986]

>>9500978
i hate sci-fi
pynchon, Joyce, Gaddis are my favorites.

[Anonymous No.9500988]

>>9500950
>and own my own gallery
Nigga 150,000 a year ain't that much, especially if we're talking dollars. Unless this is some shitty small-town "artsy" gallery we're talking about.
>>9500972
>i hope youre being sarcastic.
Of course
>>9500986
>i hate sci-fi
>pynchon is my fav ;)

[Anonymous No.9500989]

I honestly prefer Post-Modernism to Modernism. At least it has a sense of humor

[Anonymous No.9500990]

>>9500980
>>9500982
>mad losers.
my girlfriend is hot and internet famous too

[Anonymous No.9500993]

>>9500955
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.9500994]

>>9500990
Anon we know you're joking you don't have to do the slow-exaggeration thing

[Anonymous No.9500996]

>>9500993
Correct

[Anonymous No.9500998]

>>9500989
>At least it has a sense of humor

Yeah, irony can be funny, but after a while it just masks nihilism.

[Anonymous No.9501000]

>>9500986
don't worry

you still don't fit in here

[Anonymous No.9501002]

>>9500951
How is it historicist?

[Anonymous No.9501004]

>>9500988
no, that is a lot of money for the kind of work i do.
and as for the gallery, I'm a part owner in NYC. It's a good investment.
My family is wealthy and i have wealthier friends.
i'm very lucky.
But that's all aside the point, basically i just want to emphasize that your art degree is worthless and using your lesson-plan as bludgeon against assumed plebs is foolish when you have no real ground to stand on.

[Anonymous No.9501005]

>>9500998
I don't think it masks it very well or even intentionally, not sure how influential the DFW view on irony was, but I think it's overrated in that sense. Much bigger things are at play than irony in making nihilism attractive and pervasive, if you ask me

[Anonymous No.9501006]

>>9500989
PoMo is someone who has no sense of humor but everyone tells him he's funny because he desperately needs attention or else he'll hurt himself.
But the only jokes he knows are retold punchlines of other, better comedians without any setup, and to get them you had to 'be there'

[Anonymous No.9501010]

>>9501004
>for the kind of work i do
£2.50 is a lot of money for the kind of work I do.
>le buttmad STEMfag tries to buy class
classic

[Anonymous No.9501011]

>>9501002
"Tracing trajectories" implies that such a meta-narrative as "trajectories" in art even exists. One could claim that a piece of art should stand for itself in its time.

[Anonymous No.9501015]

>>9501010
oooh you poor fool..
You will be so sad when you turn 30 and have to live with the real people..
of if you already have.. i can't even imagine.

[Anonymous No.9501016]

>>9501004
Just to entertain your errant faggotry a bit longer, how exactly do you reconcile claiming that people who base their language on widely accepted definitions of precise terms have "no ground to stand on" when your own platform is as-yet unjustified contrarianism?

[Anonymous No.9501018]

>>9500881
>And you expect us to care about your opinion?

No. Go crud yourself you bangwizzit.

[Anonymous No.9501024]

>>9501016
it's not contrarianism, it's an honest appraisal of the flux of definitions in art.
I'm essentially saying that youre definition is being read from a small-print book on a wobbly ship on a rough sea.
You can try to read it but you're likely better off learning how to swim or steering clear of the storm.

[Anonymous No.9501026]

>>9501006
Modernism is someone who constantly tells embellished stories and lies about himself to portray himself in a good light, but who no one calls out because he's so charismatic

[Anonymous No.9501033]

>>9501006
POMO is more like a stand-up who parodies other stand-ups, but then begins to parody the act parodying the stand-ups, mocking himself in the process and losing sight of the original source of ridicule until the whole act becomes simply a reiterative performance of decontextualised snippets the other's work, then some other stand-up comes along and performs the same acts of parody, but without even having heard of or recognizing the sources of what's being parodied.

[Anonymous No.9501035]

>>9501015
Pfft hahah... hahaha. You ignorant buffoon, sitting in your little Ivory tower, looking down upon us? Have fun up there, your art will never touch the ground. You wouldn't last A DAY in the jungle that is real life, bud.

[Anonymous No.9501042]

>>9500977
I mean situating the art within the space of the gallery rather than the space of the modernist painting was the last real innovation in aesthetic theory. Also retaining the process of art creation in the art itself, in effect leaving works 'unfinished' to avoid the imposition of finality, and leave the work to be 'completed' by the interaction with the audience (who share the gallery space)

To me it seems the only way up is out (of the gallery) but that means abandoning every other framing device like literal physical frames, literary frames like titles, descriptive text, theory, etc. as well which art can't do without.

[Anonymous No.9501047]

>>9501024
So it's literally Because You Say So. Because you, in your unfathomable coolness and desirability to women, know more about the progression of expressive art than the combined academic efforts of the academic majority.

Neat

[Anonymous No.9501050]

>>9501042
I see, thank you. I agree with everything you said.

[Anonymous No.9501051]

>>9501035
I think you're likely going to be very very wrong about that, but sure,for your sake. Maybe I'm being too petty in my honesty. it might seem unnecessary but sometimes i thnk you art-nerds need a wake-up call.
you know nothing of the real world and the hard WORK it requires. art is for fun. people who intellectualize it have no talents for the most part.

[Anonymous No.9501052]

>>9501047
>appealing to the academic majority daddy-figure
sigh... weakness abounds.

[Anonymous No.9501054]

>>9501051
>people who intellectualize it have no talents for the most part
t. Anon arguing on an etc etc imageboard

[Anonymous No.9501056]

>>9501042
>>9501050
Forgot to ask you, what do you think about Remodernism?

I find it refreshing, but I doubt it will have any lasting effect.

[Anonymous No.9501062]

>>9501052
>being unable to refute the academic majority figure
>settling for calling out perceived fallacies which, on its own, is not an argument
Speck in my eye, plank in yours, etc
I shouldn't need to remind you that only one person has even attempted to define their terms, and it wasn't (You)

[Anonymous No.9501071]

>>9501052
>sigh... weakness abounds.

kek, i'll use this from now on

[Anonymous No.9501074]

>>9501062
definitions are limiting and used by weak people who can't trust their own instincts and intuition.
they're reference guides.
This has always been my point. You got mad because i disagreed with your pedantic modernism/post-modernism distinction and the rest was history.

[Anonymous No.9501075]

>>9501071
It will be his only remembered cultural contribution

[Anonymous No.9501077]

>>9501011
Art is produced in certain contexts though so there are very well links between works and I think tracing these trajectories within specific contexts are local narratives. Consolidating trajectories into a single aesthetic theory would be a meta-narrative though, but I think postmodernism does kind of 'leave works where they are' in history.

[Anonymous No.9501078]

>>9501075
You have no idea my friend.

[Anonymous No.9501082]

>>9501074
Is this Pure Ideology *sniff*?

[Anonymous No.9501090]

>>9501082
ironic use of the idea, but sure if you say so.

[Anonymous No.9501093]

>>9499424

what is it with all these new age offices not having any roofs? I'd rather stare at a pretty roof than the building ventilation.

[Anonymous No.9501096]

>>9501056
I can't really remember what I learned about it but I remember some artist following certain instructions written by Moholy-Nagy or something so I see a link between it and Conceptualism. It's pretty interesting to me in that regard. The idea of revisiting old ideas that may have been pre-maturely abandoned or not fully exhausted.

[Anonymous No.9501101]

>>9501093
Architectural atheism, "there is no above"

[Anonymous No.9501107]

>>9501101

[Anonymous No.9501114]

>>9501096
I see. Well do you think this could apply to post-modernism as well?

The idea that one could go back throughout art history and recover something that would transcend the current paradigm?

I'm skeptical, but at least you'd have something to do.

[Anonymous No.9501143]

>>9501114
Revisiting early post-modernism? I think so and I hope so honestly, since I've never seen post-modernism discussed as often as it is right now. That transition period of the late 60s and early 70s is the main focus of my reading. Postmodernism tends to be misunderstood (and often conflated with modernism) so I think it would be beneficial to revisit these ideas since so many are disillusioned with the 'contemporary' period of Third Way leftism. If the Situationists could be revisited that would be good too.

I read at the beginning of some article saying how during that time a lot of publications used the prefix 'post-' for discussing things and now we tend to use 're-'.

[Anonymous No.9502100]

>>9499475
it's more a symptom of a decaying society

[Anonymous No.9502984]

That interior decoration and design is CLEARLY not postmodern, though

[Anonymous No.9503011]

>>9500955
>implying the welfare state isn't a socialist measure
>doesn't actually argue, just dismiss
shitpost

[Anonymous No.9503045]

>>9500795
That's fucking garbage dude.

[Anonymous No.9503049]

>>9500837
Fucking incredible

[Anonymous No.9503061]

kitsch =/= postmodern
that room is functional and simple; there's no engendered complexity. it's a refurbished modern corporate environment

[Anonymous No.9503068]

>>9503045
Give an example of non-garbage.

[Anonymous No.9503074]

>this room

[Anonymous No.9503075]

>>9503068
Literally look outside your window and whatever random bullshit going on outside is going to be more beautiful than that.

You can also look at any piece of art that isn't just random scribbles.

[Anonymous No.9503076]

>>9500955

>being this pedantic and hormonal

[Anonymous No.9503134]

>>9503075
Right, so you don't have any examples.

Shut the fuck up then.

[Anonymous No.9503137]

>>9503134
Wow lol, getting a bit defensive over your money laundering doodles?

[Anonymous No.9503183]

>>9503074
good god

[Anonymous No.9503195]

>>9500889
>Those foundations erode themselves.
Marriages end by themselves, not by divorce laws and horrible women.

[Anonymous No.9503199]

>>9500795
kitsch

[Anonymous No.9503225]

>>9500795
That's literally the opposite of art. I hate people who flip out over experimental art and say "A child could draw that!" but that picture looks genuinely unhealthy. I'm looking at it and getting a headache and stomachache.

I think that the mixture of color and structure in that painting is actually in some strange psycho-physiological way damaging. If you conceive of art as being in a way Orpheistic or Pythagorean (meant to heal the reader through the harmony of its constituents), that's the opposite of art. That is like Communistic psy-ops and can make people ill. Pollock is OK, Mondrian is OK, Picasso is OK, Kandinsky is OK... I don't know much about art and I'm not claiming to.

But that is not OK.

That's trash and should be eliminated for the good of humanity. It hurts my fucking eyes and head. It's almost as if she was trying on purpose, not to create something simply inept or incoherent (which would have a neutral effect on the viewer), but something intentionally damaging to the viewer. I think I've actually lost brain cells and my sperm count has been lowered looking at that "painting", to call it which would insult actual paintings.

Complete trash, dude. Do you have clinical depression and/or anxiety? It's probably from looking at those paintings. I wouldn't be surprised. Seek help.

[Anonymous No.9503241]

>>9499522
Read Portrait retard

[Anonymous No.9503244]

>>9503225
Ha! look at this guy who thinks art should be pleasant and beautiful

[Anonymous No.9503270]

>>9500795
shit tier abstract art
non-whites shouldn't be allowed anywhere NEAR a canvas

[Anonymous No.9503285]

>>9503225
/pol/ autism on steroids: The Post

[Anonymous No.9503293]

>>9503244
>>9503285
not him, but it's very easy to be dismissive of criticism
i'd like to see you folks defend the merit of that kitschy trainwreck :^)

[Anonymous No.9503298]

>>9503285
we have nice taste desu ;>

[Anonymous No.9503300]

>>9503293
You have literally no idea what kitsch is.

[Anonymous No.9503306]

>>9503300
>it's very easy to be dismissive of criticism
I have a background in art history and aesthetics. that "artwork" is kitsch incarnate

[Anonymous No.9503312]

>>9503306
>I have a background in art history and aesthetics.

Sure you do stormsperg.

[Anonymous No.9503315]

>>9500837

what seals the deal on this image is the ages 8+ on the box

hhahahaahaha hueuhueuheuhue get fucked memers

[Anonymous No.9503320]

>>9503312
>still no attempt to defend whatever merit that abstract art simulacrum has
I accept your concession

[Anonymous No.9503323]

>>9503244
Yeah what the fuck. Art is supposed to be depressing and awful. That's why when I go to a restaurant I tell the chef to burn the shit out of everything until no human would eat it. When I listen to music I just just scratch some rusty nails on my window instead. I make all my deodorant out of my own shit and wear thick gloves filled with inward facing spikes all the time. I'm currently preparing to gouge my eyes out with a spoon so I won't be distracted by how beautiful reality it is. True art rapes the senses.

>>9503312
LOL Ikr

[Anonymous No.9503344]

>>9503320
I don't have to defend the merits of something that is intrinsically subjective.

Now, you are welcome to reduce all aesthetics to money laundering, self-aggrandizement and upper-class chauvinism if you want to, but I'll just tell you that if it is true of that painting, then it is also true of all art in the history of humanity.

[Anonymous No.9503349]

>>9503344
>I don't have to defend the merits of something that is intrinsically subjective.
t. never ever opened a single book on art history, aesthetics or art criticism
at least stop projecting an understanding of the artform online. why do you lie to yourself?

[Anonymous No.9503361]

>>9503344
Me paint on cave and sell it to Grog so mammoths don't find out his bead strings are from spirit mushrooms

[Anonymous No.9503363]

>>9503349
Answer my challenge faggot.

If you're going to define art as "communist psy-ops", money laundering schemes, or upper-class chauvinism, actually explain how this couldn't be said about all art, or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.9503364]

>>9500795
Looks like a map of the world.

[Anonymous No.9503374]

>>9503363
>If you're going to define art as "communist psy-ops", money laundering schemes, or upper-class chauvinism, actually explain how this couldn't be said about all art, or fuck off.
I'm not; you're conflating one or more anons that have answered you. I am actually very fond of modern and postmodern painting.
However, the work you (?) posted is extremely derivative and, yes, kitschy, and your appeal to subjectivity only reinforces my perception of your innocuity regarding the artform.

[Anonymous No.9503375]

>>9503363
It's okay when the government makes people disappear every government from history has done that. L.O.L. what are you some sort of retard that's never read a history book?

[Anonymous No.9503386]

>>9503285
I know I overreacted, but basically this guy summed up my post with some pithy irony (and thank you for supporting me) >>9503244

That work is genuinely unpleasant and ugly. There's a lot of experimental paintings I don't get (like the painters i even mentioned at times), but they're not outright ugly, just kinda neutral and lacking emotional tone to me.

But that picture is ugly.

[Anonymous No.9503396]

>>9503374
Well it's derivative in the same way every single abstract painting is a derivative from when it was invented, which says nothing.

And it's obviously not kitsch at all, as I said earlier. You have no idea what kitsch is. If you think that painting is analogous to pic related you're the one whose never opened an art book in your life.

[Anonymous No.9503418]

>>9503323
It's almost as if the human capacity to appreciate the abstract and ugly is greater than that of flavour and taste!

Also, there are many people who genuinely like merzbow

[Anonymous No.9503420]

>>9503396
That picture isn't kitsch either because I said so! Now deal with it and continue looking at paint splotches like regular people.

[Anonymous No.9503433]

>>9503418
Pop-art is in its current state because people appreciate ugliness, that's why everyone in /r9k/ has a GF. Yes there are also people who genuinely like feces. They are called scat fetishists.

[Anonymous No.9503441]

>>9503420
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.9503451]

>>9503441
I'm glad we've finally narrowed it down to the core principle that post-modernism is founded on.

[Anonymous No.9503454]

>>9503451
Yes I'm sure your own motivations are so pristine and pure, bucko.

[Anonymous No.9503469]

>>9503454
You're right. Only some sort of base animal would defend beauty and craftsmanship by making fun of pseuds on the internet.

[Anonymous No.9503482]

>>9503469
Quite a defense sitting in your underwear and simply shitposting on the internet. Bernini would be proud.

[Anonymous No.9503485]

you're all idiots

i'm so much fucking smarter than all of you

[Anonymous No.9503493]

>>9503225
If it hurts you you are weak and should be culled for the good of humanity. Art is about strength.

[Anonymous No.9503498]

>>9503485
eat poo

[Anonymous No.9503500]

>>9503298
Lol what the fuck is the point of this painting

[Anonymous No.9503501]

>>9499424
postruining moderned everything

[Anonymous No.9503502]

>>9503500
>art
>point
'Sup Reddit

[Anonymous No.9503503]

>>9503502
Gidday, 4chan

[Anonymous No.9503505]

>>9503482
It's for something that I genuinely care about, so I do what I can. Remember that Ad Hominem isn't very nice!

[Anonymous No.9503510]

>>9503502
>shitposting
>point

[Anonymous No.9503517]

The last 2.5 hours of this thread have been objectively terrible discussion. Is postmodernism to blame?

[Anonymous No.9503522]

>>9503298
I'm sure the artist would be glad to know that /pol/tards are gleefully masturbating to this tragic scene because it pleases their political sensabilities.

[Anonymous No.9503528]

>>9503522
Look at the masterful rendering of that dog dick

[Anonymous No.9503530]

>>9503517
Maybe

[Anonymous No.9503531]

>>9503500
*The doctor raises newly born baby Anon, says "What the fuck is the point of this baby?" and promptly throws him in the fucking garbage. He instead goes to paint a bunch of lines and sell it to a """"Dedicated"""" """"""Art""""""" """""Collector"""""" for 6 billion dubloons.*

[Anonymous No.9503537]

>>9503531
What a postmodern post.

[Anonymous No.9503538]

>>9503531
>>9503517
Yikes someone shut this down asap

[Anonymous No.9503541]

>>9503537
That's the most brutal insult I have ever seen.

[Anonymous No.9503546]

>>9503531
You, sir, have won the internetz. Here, have an upvote and some complimentary bacon

[Anonymous No.9503551]

>>9499424

are you really saying you would rather work in an office like this?

[Anonymous No.9503555]

>>9503538
Delete this!

[Anonymous No.9503558]

>>9503551
It's embarrassing that it took /lit/ so long to make this argument.

[Anonymous No.9503561]

@9503551
Yes.

Regards, Anonymous.

[Anonymous No.9503562]

>>9503531
Hey ebaumsworld

[Anonymous No.9503565]

>>9503555 (Checked)

[Anonymous No.9503567]

>>9503551
No, but at least this is honest. It's a fucking office, not a vomit-covered ball pit at the back of a McDonalds.

[Anonymous No.9503570]

>>9503551
>.
>>9503558
>argument
pic in the op is clearly an environment designed for creative work done by a very few select individuals, meanwhile that cubicle farm is designed for a mass of underpaid wageslaves doing menial job
it's not exactly an option, but I would rather have a simple, non-memey environment with plenty of space and natural light

[Anonymous No.9503571]

So now I'm just lying here without my hands. The earth is damp and remindes of the excavation me and David worker on last year. Moisture begins to soak into my clothing and blood just keeps seeping out.
--No Hands No Fear--
--No Hands No Fear--
--No Hands No Fear--
That's what the farther used to say to me.
--No Hands No Fear--
--No Hands No Fear--
--No Hands No Fear--
I'd always thought it was simple the ramblings of a man of mind gone simple. But I understand now what he meant. It's true. And now I'm still lying here in the mud with no hands. The sky is *crushing* nothing but a perfect sheet of bright white overcast brilliance. I wish I had those overlarge Fendi sunglasses of Manon's, not that I could put them on and they're in the car anyway, and that is at the bottom of the lake beside me now.

I hope it was worth it.

IHOPEITWASWORTHIT.

I'll probably die here now.

[Anonymous No.9503572]

>>9503551
Those are the only two options in existence? Then I'll take yours so I can figure out if reality was actually black and white or if everyone was wearing grey paint on the sides of their faces that point towards the camera.

>>9503562
Go back to Myspace.

[Anonymous No.9503579]

>>9503570
The google office is incipid and gaudy, nothing within that space screams 'creation' or 'inspiration'
I want to vomit

[Anonymous No.9503585]

>>9503570
I too would like to work in Peewee's Playhouse

[Anonymous No.9503589]

>>9503579
CheapTrash
CheapTrash
CheapTrash
CheapTrash
Where is the geometry???

[Anonymous No.9503591]

>>9503579
I meant creativity exactly in that new age, corporate sense: childlike exploration in the name of intuitive UIs, universallly-appealing product design and unlikely market campaigns

[Anonymous No.9503613]

[Anonymous No.9503616]

>>9503591
**functionality aside**
But it's no wonder then that google creates products look like they're made for (and designed by) children and a company, like say Apple, produces aesthetically appealing design

[Anonymous No.9503625]

>>9503613
Good god that's the last kind of environment some poor depressed and thoroughly burnt out and tweeked intern wants to be

[Anonymous No.9503638]

>>9499437
direct opposition doesn't show any thought or depth, just reaction.
Which is why when the Gay Games was in my city you'd see couples all over town that were either: natty, neat little slim men with tidy moustaches, or weathered, cropped hair women with sour expressions.
ie just the opposite of what culture decrees and therefore just as much a part of it, standing as direct opposition and not any new direction.

[Anonymous No.9503641]

>>9503616
yeah, Google has some naiveté about it that creeps me out sometimes

>>9503625
>he thinks anyone with even a slight hint of social anxiety or mental illness would be allowed in the building
kek

[Anonymous No.9503646]

Where has our sincerity gone???

[Anonymous No.9503652]

>>9503641
No, that's where they end. Google, like many tech firms, live off the backs of fleets of young, underpaid interns who are burnt out to a husk after a couple years and disposed of to be replaced by a new batch of fresh college graduates.

[Anonymous No.9503655]

>>9503646
what do you mean?

[Anonymous No.9503661]

>>9503500
i ask my kids to tell me what's happening in pictures we see at galleries or online, or even in magazines.
They come up with some cool things sometimes, other times they see exactly what's there.
Of course you're trolling but that dog is missing it's owner, pretty common story and theme for art, it can be resonant for fascist idiots who love the idea of masters and servants, or just poignant for more complex characters, doubly so since the work put into the painting is clearly not just a casual mess and the techniques are a lost art to us.

[Anonymous No.9503700]

back to >>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.9503802]

When did you realize that tradition exists for a reason and "innovation" is a retarded meme?

People like to think that there is some sort of Whiggish "progress" for art, or that abstractness necessarily makes a work non-kitschy, or that we've been marching to post-modernity as a historical inevitably (a very Marxist idea)

It's the opposite. The moderns and postmoderns are COMPLETELY blind to virtues of art that used to exist, and that they destroyed, and now they are left with the most boring form of mimesis, because abstract art has no room for subtlety. Abstract art literally all looks the same. They're trapped, like how jazz and rock seem to be "innovative" on the surface, but ran out of ideas in a few decades, while the classical tradition existed for thousands of years.

Art is essentially mimesis. We are humans, we are social animals, we learn from imitation. Nobody will escape from influence, and no artist does anything truly final. But as humans, we are all very similar, more or less. We think in feel, yes, with individual variations, but we all have thought and felt what others have thought and felt, and how they will think and feel. The point of art is to take these feelings, these inarticulate masses, and synthesize them into new emotions, new experiences. Art should express the eternal aspect of the human condition, and thus good art never truly strays from certain qualities, or laws. This is why we had a tradition for so long: humans, and their art, are inherently traditional. And we are still.

[Anonymous No.9503838]

>>9503802
Is the abstract not the perfect vehicle for wich to express those emotions though?

[Anonymous No.9503926]

>>9503802
>figurative art, bound to representation, somehow has more room for subtlety than abstract art, limitless by definition
wew lad

[Anonymous No.9504009]

>>9503613
Is this supossed to be a kindergarten room?

[Anonymous No.9504079]

>>9499424

go to bed Jordan

[Anonymous No.9504132]

>>9499487
Until those wooden beams fall on your head.

[Anonymous No.9504174]

>>9503551

I literally would. Dealing with neurotic hipsters all day would wear me out.

[Anonymous No.9504192]

>>9503802
>People like to think that there is some sort of Whiggish "progress" for art

Not since the 60s they haven't.

>The moderns and postmoderns are COMPLETELY blind to virtues of art that used to exist

Not really, since postmodernism allows for moving outside the 'canon' of art to look at art more objectively than developing an aesthetic model of development and innovation. Commonly postmodernism draws from distinct and varied sources

> now they are left with the most boring form of mimesis

Postmodern art isn't often identified with mimesis at all, neither is modern. Also abstract art is more commonly associated with modernism rather than postmodernism, even though some innovations in Ab Ex formed precedents for the art that came 'after' modernism

> but ran out of ideas in a few decades

How is this a problem if innovation is a meme?

>Art is essentially mimesis
An ahistorical analysis of art
>no artist does anything truly final
A postmodern analysis of art
>The point of art is to take these feelings, these inarticulate masses, and synthesize them into new emotions, new experiences.
First its mimesis now it's synthesis of the inarticulate? For 'newness' i.e. innovation, no less? Not sure what you're trying to say because I don't think you're sure either.
>Art should express the eternal aspect of the human condition
Not mimesis? Does abstract art not do this? Does Greenberg not put forward an argument outlining qualities of painting that Ab Ex adheres to?

[Anonymous No.9504265]

>>9499424
>implying modernism was something worth saving

[Anonymous No.9504409]

>>9500015
This.

[Anonymous No.9504826]

>>9503225
>You can get depression by looking at decent art
This guy. It's not just regular stupidity, it's something else.

[Anonymous No.9506340]

>>9499426
How did you know anon?

[Anonymous No.9506367]

>>9504192
>>9504265
>>9499424
>Implying we were ever modern

Dude you guys are a bunch of kooks. Get off the computer and read some Bruno Latour.

[Anonymous No.9506398]

>>9503802
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:01:07 No.9503551▶>>9503558 >>9503567 >>9503570 >>9503572 >>9504174
>File: 2ee3f214abb125678bdb96746(...).jpg (65 KB, 553x369)
>>>9499424 (OP)
>are you really saying you would rather work in an office like this?
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:02:26 No.9503555▶>>9503565
>>>9503538
>Delete this!
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:03:31 No.9503558▶>>9503570
>>>9503551
>It's embarrassing that it took /lit/ so long to make this argument.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:04:26 No.9503561▶
>@9503551
>Yes.
>Regards, Anonymous.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:04:34 No.9503562▶>>9503572
>>>9503531
>Hey ebaumsworld
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:05:40 No.9503565▶
>>>9503555 (Checked)
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:06:22 No.9503567▶
>>>9503551
>No, but at least this is honest. It's a fucking office, not a vomit-covered ball pit at the back of a McDonalds.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:06:47 No.9503570▶>>9503579 >>9503585
>>>9503551
>>.
>>>9503558
>>argument
>pic in the op is clearly an environment designed for creative work done by a very few select individuals, meanwhile that cubicle farm is designed for a mass of underpaid wageslaves doing menial job
>it's not exactly an option, but I would rather have a simple, non-memey environment with plenty of space and natural light
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:06:57 No.9503571▶
>So now I'm just lying here without my hands. The earth is damp and remindes of the excavation me and David worker on last year. Moisture begins to soak into my clothing and blood just keeps seeping out.
>--No Hands No Fear--
>--No Hands No Fear--
>--No Hands No Fear--
>That's what the farther used to say to me.
>--No Hands No Fear--
>--No Hands No Fear--
>--No Hands No Fear--
>I'd always thought it was simple the ramblings of a man of mind gone simple. But I understand now what he meant. It's true. And now I'm still lying here in the mud with no hands. The sky is *crushing* nothing but a perfect sheet of bright white overcast brilliance. I wish I had those overlarge Fendi sunglasses of Manon's, not that I could put them on and they're in the car anyway, and that is at the bottom of the lake beside me now.
>I hope it was worth it.
>IHOPEITWASWORTHIT.
>I'll probably die here now.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:06:59 No.9503572▶
>>>9503551
>Those are the only two options in existence? Then I'll take yours so I can figure out if reality was actually black and white or if everyone was wearing grey paint on the sides of their faces that point towards the camera.
>>>9503562
>Go back to Myspace.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:08:42 No.9503579▶>>9503589 >>9503591
>>>9503570
>The google office is incipid and gaudy, nothing within that space screams 'creation' or 'inspiration'
>I want to vomit
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/17(Sun)02:10:25 No.9503585▶
>>>9503570
>I too would like to work in Peewee's Playhouse

[Anonymous No.9506400]

>>9499424
>postmodernism ruined evreything
not everything, sadly
just everything nice

[Anonymous No.9506405]

>>9500862
Postmodern expression is jaded and guarded. Most of the things you're talking represent the opposite of that.

[Anonymous No.9506415]

POSTMODERNISM CAN'T BEAT IDIOCY

[Anonymous No.9506828]

I don't fucking understand Postmodernism it seems like it means whatever the orator wants it to mean at the time

[Anonymous No.9506834]

>>9501015
>i can't even imagine.
yeah, no shit.

[Anonymous No.9506840]

>>9499424
>postmodernism ruined evrything

This will be my Tinder bio from now on

[Anonymous No.9506866]

>>9501093
>I'd rather stare at a pretty roof than the building ventilation.
>roof

pretty sure that building has a roof. the word you're looking for is "ceiling."

[Anonymous No.9506879]

>>9499503
It's Northern Ireland, hence why it looks so English. The rest of Ireland has a very unique identity, even down to having signs written in Irish ahead of the English version beneath.
Not Irish, btw, just lived there for some years.