How to think?

[Anonymous No.9475678]

How does one actually learns to think? I want to dedicate my time on actually thinking but don't know how. Feel free to share anything you might think its important or advanced tips/guides etc on that matter

[Anonymous No.9475689]

You find things that really make you think, and then think about them

[Anonymous No.9475690]

>>9475678
When you're having an argument in your head with someone else, don't create a weak strawmen to light on fire. Imagine the greatest argument you can, and do that.
Then you're actually thinking

[Anonymous No.9475691]

First try and detach yourself totally from what you are thinking about, then slowly come to recognise that that's an impossible task and you need to reintroduce your subjective experience into the process while being aware of its influence on what you are thinking.

[Anonymous No.9475819]

>>9475690
quality advice

[Anonymous No.9476138]

bump for actual advices

[Anonymous No.9476152]

I always write down random thoughts I have during the day and then type them up in my diary desu

[Anonymous No.9476203]

>>9475678
Avoid rigid thought, always consider that your opinion may be wrong, and always consider what you hear may be wrong, both until proven otherwise. I think pride is the biggest wall to honest objective free thought.

[Anonymous No.9476256]

I don't know, it just comes to me.
Probaby because there are a lot of things that semi interest me i have a lot to think about. You just need a subject and you're not allowed to go to easy on yourself. Then when you've thought enough write it down.
I have like 6-7 different subjects that brewd inside my head for like 1 to 6 months each until i had a resulut stacis.
You can't force yourself to think, you have to let it come. That is if you want to think further than normal.

[Anonymous No.9476270]

After you hit your first conclusion try your best to prove it wrong

[Anonymous No.9476299]

Try to find the one thing that would change your mind on a matter.

[Anonymous No.9476803]

bump

[Anonymous No.9477123]

>>9475678
If you're trying to solve a real world problem or debate with someone, you need to first gather the facts. Don't use imagination as a substitute for facts. Also, don't mix reality with fantasy. If you do that, then your whole thinking process is flawed. However, if you have no facts to start with, then you'll have to look for them to prove that your speculations are correct.

For example, if you've never seen how glass shatters when struck with a hammer, don't make the assumption that it'll shatter like the way you'd expect based on what you've seen in movies/shows/games. If you've never done a certain activity or have no related knowledge associated with the activity, don't use imaginative thinking to figure it out. Read a guide or ask someone.

I'm not saying that imaginative thinking is inherently bad, but you need to be aware that your conclusions and speculations might be wrong.

[Anonymous No.9478194]

>>9475678


I've tried to explore this question a month back. I don't think you can reduce thinking into an "algorithm", though there's certainly a few key essences to it. I felt that there were many different "types" of thinking, which can be used to outline ideas in their various simple and complex structures. There are many types of "core" thinking skills, which may be unique to one subject or shared with multiple kinds of subjects (quantitative, verbal, etc. in science, literature, etc.). There seems to be structures of ideas common across all subjects (feedback systems) and structures of ideas unique particular to a type of subject (rhetorical language).

Of course, while some subjects exemplify certain types of thinking (math and quantitative), other subjects require multiple types of thinking, and can be said to be not as fundamental (like economics as a combination of math, history, and philosophy). And, if you've ever noticed, the structures of ideas between subjects tend to follow patterns, so when once becomes adept at philosophy, it may become easier to understand concepts in physics because you're more capable of carving out the ideas at their joints due to your experience.

It's fairly complicated, so I'll try to explain what I mean through an autodidact's booklist, meant for capable and determined high school graduates who want to understand how everything works and develop a firm foundation for rigorous study. You have to explore the various ways of thinking, the particular and universal structures of ideas, the psychological aspects of thinking (heuristics, biases, etc.), the methods of studying that accompany the process of thinking (reading, note-taking, problem-solving, increasing your knowledge of what you know and what you don't know, asking questions, etc.), and some random habits that would help you at being at your peak when learning, reasoning, and communicating (emotional control, writing essays, basics of social skills, etc.)

[Anonymous No.9478197]

>>9478194


I just realized that I forgot to mention that it is important to explore the "states of consciousness" that you may have in your understanding of ideas. When do you think best? What does thinking feel like to you? What do ideas "look like" to you, i.e., in what ways do you think about ideas (verbally, visually, sequentially, chaotically, etc.) How do you keep yourself thinking at your best? How do you push yourself to states of higher capacity for thought? etc.

Anyway, here's the booklist:

>AUTODIDACT CORE:
How to Read a Book - Mortimer J. Adler
The Trivium - Sister Miriam Joseph
The Oxford Essential Guide to Writing - Thomas S. Kane

Basics of studying, the basics of thinking, and basics of the structures of ideas which you may think about. A strong studying method and a grasp of the basics of thinking/ideas will show you how to charitably tackle new ideas, help you develop an appreciation for the complexity of ideas, and teach you to reformulate ideas to express them in the clearest ways possible.

>AUTODIDACT CRITICAL THINKING:
Creative and Critical Thinking: W. Edgar Moore
Thinking, Fast and Slow - Daniel Kahneman

Basics of the "cognitive" aspects of thinking. What are you doing when you think? How do you take your thinking beyond the limits of your biology?

>AUTODIDACT SELF-IMPROVEMENT:
The Discourses - Epictetus
A Primer in Positive Psychology - Christopher Peterson

Basics of the "psychological" aspects to thinking, i.e., the habits that will help you become a better thinker. You can't think when emotions are impeding your ability to see things as they are.

[Anonymous No.9478201]

>>9478197

>AUTODIDACT LIBERAL ARTS:
The Art of Fiction - David Lodge
The Bible (KJV/NKJV)
Atlas of World History - Patrick O'Brien
The Interpretation of Cultures - Clifford Geertz
Western Philosophy: An Anthology - John Cottingham
Music In Theory And Practice - Bruce Benward
Pre-Calculus - C. Stitz & J. Zeager
<an introductory-level college textbook on either physics, chemistry, or biology>

An investigation into the essences of all different kinds of thinking, with the goal of understanding the purpose of a subject and the fundamentals that govern it (perhaps not quite the foundations, though you should be prepared to begin progressing towards them with hard work). This isn't the final goal, but just the stepping stones to either more sophisticated kinds of thinking in a field, or less fundamental subjects that combine multiple types of thinking, such as economics.

>AUTODIDACT SOCIAL SKILLS:
Improve Your Social Skills - Daniel Wendler
How to Speak, How to Listen -- Mortimer J. Adler

I think that no investigation into thinking is complete without understanding how others think. This prevents you from underestimating other people and neglecting the ways of thinking that you may have missed.

[Anonymous No.9479324]

>>9478201
>>9478197
great

[Anonymous No.9479403]

>>9478201
It is for posts like this i am here.
I find it amazing that someone can elaborate so much on a subject. It's like an essay, thanks /lit/izen.

[Anonymous No.9479412]

1) Think of your opinion on X
2) Are you an expert on X?
3) If yes, you've arrived at the limit of your knowledge. Your opinion is well-founded and researched.
4) If not: Assume that you're wrong
5) Think of reasons as to why you could be wrong
6) Were you able to find any reasons to disprove/challenge your original assumption at 1)?
7) If yes, modify your opinion and goto 2)
8) If not, modify your opinion and goto 4)

[Anonymous No.9479456]

>>9475678
Reflective thought is dialogical, so it helps to practice asking yourself questions and weighing conflicting views. When thinking through an argument or analysis someone else has written, it may help to mentally act out or visualize the course of the argument. Always be mindful of what you don't know.

[Anonymous No.9479743]

>>9475689
reelly maeks yuh tink

[Anonymous No.9479751]

>>9475678
Anon, instead of thinking try to talk with your thoughts. Make this as a challange, create a imaginary friend and instead of thinking talk to him for a week, you will discover a lot about thinking. You will see the thoughts that came in an instant and some developing by arguing with itself.

[Anonymous No.9479784]

>>9479751
>create a imaginary friend
dont do this
one way ticket to self induced schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.9479820]

>>9479784
I thought so, I remember reading about people who fell for the tulpa meme

[Anonymous No.9479866]

>>9478197
Anybody know of a good/comparable alternative to Creative and Critical Thinking by W. Edgar Moore or where I could download a copy?

I'm having issues sourcing it. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.9481092]

>>9479866
Did you find it?

[Anonymous No.9481126]

Read Plato. Come on, people.

[Anonymous No.9481473]

>>9479866

Any book that covers these a significant portion of these topics:

Decision making -- The hypothetical syllogism -- Reliability and probability -- Evaluating evidence -- Forming hypotheses -- Testing hypotheses -- Generalizations -- Statistical concepts -- Statistics and probability -- Reasoning from generalizations -- Forming causal theories -- Testing causal theories -- Evaluation and decision -- Value judgments -- Creative thinking -- Fallacies of irrelevance -- Neglected aspect -- Pitfalls in language -- Classification and definition -- Categorical propositions -- Immediate inference -- Categorical syllogisms -- Alternative and disjunctive syllogisms -- Interpreting propositions -- Involved arguments -- Complex syllogistic forms -- Need-directed thinking -- The personal point of view -- How we distort the evidence -- Emotions and thinking -- Hidden propositions -- Psychological pitfalls -- False assumptions -- Devices of persuasion -- Refining value systems.

[Anonymous No.9482071]

>>9478194
>>9478197
>>9478201

This is a good start. I like this very much. Why does nobody build on some sort of framework for what "thinking" is, what "ideas" are, how complex thinking and ideas can become, what thinking feels like, and how to apply thinking to grasp ideas in practice?

All the other posts in the thread are a few tidbits here and there about detachment, charity, etc., which are good habits to overcome normal biases, but they barely scratch the surface of what good thinking is and how to practice it.

I'm sure that, if we pooled our /lit/ resources together, we could come up with models, habits, training, milestones, etc., that could help guide us all to think more creatively and discerningly, with more endurance and rigor. It won't be an algorithm, but you don't need an algorithm when all you need is a good map.

I'm not even joking. I'd love to start a Google Docs or even a reading/self-improvement group for this kind of stuff. Maybe it'll never go as far as to have us all working on ourselves consistently, but at least it could be fun watching us all contribute to a thinking project.

[Anonymous No.9482118]

>>9482071

Let me organize what we have discovered so far.

Critical Thinking (Partially Psychology):
>>9475690
>>9475690
>>9476203 (multiple)
>>9476299
>>9476270
>>9477123
>>9479412

>How to approach new ideas and debate other people with the aim of uncovering all knowledge that we possibly can, without misleading ourselves thanks to this bias, this framework, or that heuristic.

Phenomenology of Thinking (Partially Psychology):
>>9475691
>>9476203 (multiple)
>>9479751

>Related to how states of consciousness affect thinking, such as arousal, emotions, focus, motivation, reward & punishment, and the structures of thought themselves (visual? verbal?
instantaneous and silent?), etc.

Creativity:
>>9476152

>Practices which enhance our abilities to generate novel ideas and innovate pre-existing ideas.

Learning:
>>9476256

>Habits which, if practiced thoroughly, guarantee that we function at peak intellectual ability when tackling new subjects.


These aren't the only categories out there, nor am I professing that this the most effective way to categorize everything about "thinking". But maybe somebody will get the idea here.

[Anonymous No.9482434]

>>9482071
This is exactly what i thought about a few weeks ago.
Why do we kid ourselves, people here are above average intellect. The board /lit/ is for books, though i can understand people wanting to ask people different book unrelated questions because of the feelings of someone one can relate to.

Also i do think if we combine and restructure all the little bits ( as in >>9482071) we could create something noteable.

[Anonymous No.9482775]

>>9482434

I'm down for this starting this weekend.

[Anonymous No.9483807]

>>9482434

This thread won't die.

[Anonymous No.9483969]

>>9481092

Nothing except used books through Amazon from some sketchy looking third party sellers.

[Anonymous No.9483975]

>>9481473

If I knew of a book that covered that I wouldn't have asked for a title of alternative books on how to think critically and creatively.

[Anonymous No.9484007]

smoke weed.

[Anonymous No.9484016]

>>9483975

Maybe this?

http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/

[Anonymous No.9484042]

>>9483807
>>9482775
Good, i've currently got a bit of time on my hands, how do we want to set it up?

[Anonymous No.9484873]

>>9484042

Hmmm, a Google Drive collaboration thing would be interesting. A few docs, one with the "polished" version of our conclusions, one with discussion, and one that serves as the "scratchpad" or "roughdraft".

[Anonymous No.9485017]

>>9484873
Sounds like a good idea.
I'll try n set it up later.

[Anonymous No.9485544]

Any other good books like "How to Read a Book" by Mortimer J. Adler??

[Anonymous No.9486055]

maybe this will help someone

[Anonymous No.9486637]

>>9485544
Anyone?

[Anonymous No.9486924]

Have you learned how to learn yet OP?

[Anonymous No.9486931]

>>9485544
I don't know what that is, but, I'm going to recommend
>the art of seeing sideways
>moonwalking with Einstein

[Anonymous No.9487365]

>>9485017

Make a few threads, every once in a whiel, in case I miss it.

[Gallifrey_Immigrant !3.67U82EKE No.9488050]

>>9487365
I like this project.

[Anonymous No.9489076]

Maybe we'll keep this thread until the weekend

[Anonymous No.9489660]

>>9489076
maybe

[Anonymous No.9489664]

Learn Anything mind map: https://github.com/nikitavoloboev/knowledge-map

[Anonymous No.9490265]

>>9475678

Try this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach

[Anonymous No.9490708]

Okay, so i just set it up. I won't be able to do more than this until the weekend comes around and even then i'm probably short on time as i have a rough schedule.

Every link is each doc above.

>Discussions Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bWqLoyp5lWJ-VAKB4TnBR5nwv_tY_t8O_hWlzW-gSqY/edit?usp=sharing

>Final version.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Omr6DWAsTrNWRcuJIVr2s2IZ5jnTg7qAtNvWs4m22n8/edit?usp=sharing

>Rough draft:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qqgxs9oc6CdiJz_8nd6rvgklsMiu2ZtexGR6AW3jr4w/edit?usp=sharing

I only let people comment, i'll try and administer whatever shit gets thrown in, if it get's to much i'll need someone who helps me. Maybe we could even get a discord where we can talk once a week.

[Anonymous No.9490894]

>>9475678
I've had a brain damage incident which basically stripped my ability to think verbally. I can talk, have thoughts (somehow); I appear functional, but inside my head is silence. I don't feel anything I know verbally until I say or write it down. I'd like to know too, how to think.

[Anonymous No.9490924]

>>9490894
I'd probably kill myself. Or maybe it would feel like salvation.
Just smoke as much weed as you want to.

[Anonymous No.9492312]

Anyone still interested?

[Anonymous No.9492352]

>>9490894

It's pretty much the opposite for me. I can understand things clearly in my head and sort out to what I want to accomplish, but when I try conveying it with spoken words, it just comes out as nebulous reflections of what I actually mean. Maybe it's because I pretty much never talk to anyone, and when I actually utter words, I realize my brain is basically not conditioned for that activity and it just sort of comes out in blurts.

[Anonymous No.9492371]

>>9492312

I started typing suggestions but it turned annoying really fast. Should I sign in from a throwaway email?

On the Google Drive, I think we should start by incorporating as much insight from this thread as possible, as well as brainstorming some models of our own. We should aim to: 1) formulate important questions; 2) use the answers to the questions to develop some sort of model; and 3) transform the model into something suitable for practical use, reference, etc. Hopefully, with enough people putting their heads together, we could summarize our findings into an interesting post and attract critics, helpers, testers, etc.

At first, not even joking, we're gonna have to start some basics. First we start with the subjective realm (thinking... i.e. the act of thinking, what do thoughts capture, what kind of thoughts we can have) before moving onto the objective realm (ideas... i.e. what thoughts aim to grasp, resemble, represent, etc., what types of ideas are out there, what logical structures can they form, etc.). We need to have a solid idea of what we should strive for, as well as what we shouldn't underestimate in terms of complexity, when developing a guide to thinking.

Once that occurs, we can start talking about common pitfalls, the best subjects, the best books (maybe even create sample curricula), the best habits, the psychological elements of arousal/bias/etc., and perhaps a myriad of "fine-tuning" tips and tricks. Hopefully, there won't be much overlap, and we'll be left with a systematic guide to accessing the full power of our cognitive potential.

[Anonymous No.9492377]

>>9492371

You gotta realize that outlining the steps of practical thinking is vastly different from taking those principles and applying them to your own way of thinking. It takes years to wire your brain to change into functioning differently.

The ones that seek better ways to think will find those ways because there's just so much material on it out there. Why waste your time when it's been done before and much better by smarter people?

[Anonymous No.9492378]

>>9492371

also "the conscious experience" should be included as well. People who think too linearly should be encouraged to think in webs, people who think too chaotically should practice thinking linearly, etc. I think our project is quickly reaching the scope of full-on cognitive-behavioral training, which is honestly a good thing if it ever gets off the ground. We're all pretty good thinkers compared to the average, but why should we refrain from improving the thought patterns established by environment and genes when we have the decision-making and habit-forming capabilities to at least "re-program" ourselves to be more efficient?

Think about that idea.

[Anonymous No.9492395]

>>9490894
fascinating. someone without an inner dialogue. can you visualize words in your minds eye or shapes? what part of your brain was injured?

[Anonymous No.9492396]

>>9475678
if you begin at "not being able to think" no kind of reasoning will get you to it because you are capable of no kind of reasoning.

it is likely that, instead, you are doing it but doing it wrong. if you (wrongly) believe in that you will find opportunity to improve as faulty predictions and reasonings become untenable.

[Anonymous No.9492411]

>>9492377

>

You gotta realize that outlining the steps of practical thinking is vastly different from taking those principles and applying them to your own way of thinking.

I think that there are elements of thinking that are universal across minds. Everybody thinks differently with different ways, but we all have extremely similar neural templates in which we process thought. Nobody is seeing infrared, synesthetes are outliers, etc. Not all thinking is alike in quality, but the experience is familiar and similar enough to build a practical model, unless you want to argue that most humans are not capable of having intelligible communication with one another.

Ideas, as abstract facts, are also independent of human thinking abilities, so as long as we can demonstrate the logical structure of an idea, then we're good to go. Types of idea structures, like equilibrium and positive feedback loops, are not going to change regardless of the topic where they're found or the person trying to grasp them. With this understanding, we'll know what we want to grasp through thinking, which would better inform how to think better.

>It takes years to wire your brain to change into functioning differently.

Of course. I'm in it for the long run, always.

>The ones that seek better ways to think will find those ways because there's just so much material on it out there. Why waste your time when it's been done before and much better by smarter people?

I haven't found much material that has tried to break it down into a practical guide, into several target-able elements, or into some form of universal curriculum. If you look up somebody like Gwern, you'll find great information on the power of statistics and the lack of proof associated with Dual N-Back training, but you don't really find any models of what thinking should be like and how to consciously cultivate it. That's what I think we should change, because it's a damn shame that we've all had mind-bending experiences through one rigorous study or another, and yet we can't articulate how exactly we've improved, although we know it happened.

[Anonymous No.9492795]

Read a lot, think about it, talk with people, intentionally challenge your beliefs.

[Anonymous No.9493341]

>>9490924
No reason to kill myself when life, basically, continues, and I can still read literature for a sense of fulfillment. When you lose something like this, it's hard to miss it, as you don't understand it anymore. Even now I'm not fully sure that I lost anything, but logically there was something there, that isn't here now.

>>9492352
Yes, I used to be that way. It actually became very easy for me to speak after I lost my inner dialogue. The words come out at no cost. I wonder if this is how normal people have lived all this time.

>>9492395
I can have limited words in my head, but they are more like... sounds of speech, and it is very tiring to form anything in words inside my head. If I try too hard, I get stuck repeating one simple phrase while somehow arriving at a vaguely felt conclusion to my thoughts, while repeating the same meaningless phrase and trying to understand how to continue. If I speak I suddenly voice that conclusion perfectly with my spoken words, but it is impossible to put that conclusion into words specifically inside my head.

>can you visualize words in your minds eye or shapes?
It's difficult for me to say what really happens. Maybe I could describe them as vague concealed shapes lurking in the back of the mind, whose meaning I somehow just -know-. I've stopped using language for inner needs.

>what part of your brain was injured?
To be honest, this is just something that I say because I believe it, but MRI scans haven't been able to find anything. I've given up on finding the source because I can't afford to visit doctors anymore.

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92509
Just found a story that is similar to mine, with no explanations though. I'm also not taking any meds.

[Anonymous No.9493364]

>>9490894
How can you actually write down sentences if you can't think verbally?

[Anonymous No.9493376]

>>9493364
I don't know.

[Anonymous No.9493415]

>>9493341
Interesting.
How can you evaluate anything said?

[Anonymous No.9493459]

>>9493415
If you mean my own words, generally I feel that it is easy for me now to say things as I think of them--correctly on the first try, and faults in expression must be associated with those in my own reasoning. I feel for a sense of inner disagreement to find those faults. Essentially, it's all feels when it comes to perceiving language. I must voice them to figure out things more clearly, so I value dialogue now.

I am currently learning Japanese and it is going well: I am memorizing new Chinese characters, words, grasping new grammar (such as still left for me).

I suspect and pretty much accept as fact that I cannot be a good thinker anymore, but what the hell, I can still feel like one.

[Anonymous No.9493465]

>>9493459
>(such as still left for me).
* such as there is still left for me.

I actually noticed I make mistakes a little more often when speaking, noticeably so. Now English isn't my native language, but this happens in Russian, too. My speech is almost broken at times...

[Anonymous No.9493508]

>>9493459
>>9493465
Sounds like me when i'm high.
It's so easy to accept the first thought. I just don't have to question myself.

[Anonymous No.9493585]

>>9493459

>I suspect and pretty much accept as fact that I cannot be a good thinker anymore, but what the hell, I can still feel like one.

I don't think you're as damaged as you thought. Is your problem that you don't subvocalize and that now the process of thinking is more instantaneous?

[Anonymous No.9493601]

>>9493585
Yes. I've assumed that this leads to weakened rigor in complex thinking. I remember being greatly bothered by the loss of subvocalization and panicking at first.

[Anonymous No.9493607]

>>9492377

>thoughts

Put another way... consider thoughts as vessels for ideas. I think we all have very similar arrays of vessels as a function of our neuropsychology. It would be helpful to identify the basics units of thoughts, or "vessels/representations of ideas", so we can study how they grasp ideas, how they interact with one another, and how their generation can be cultivated to understand more complicated structures (i.e., encourage better, deeper, maybe even quicker thinking).

>long-run

For emphasis... if you find a roadmap, you're doing yourself a huge favor rather than hoping that simply enriching your education with this textbook or that novel is improving your thinking abilities.

How do you measure your progress? When do you know that you're pushing yourself to your limits? What is thinking like for other people? How do you increase the range of ideas that you're comfortable with (I think this would be goal of those with Renaissance Man-style ambitions... becoming familiar and capable across a variety of skills)?

[Anonymous No.9493617]

>>9493601

>Yes. I've assumed that this leads to weakened rigor in complex thinking.

Why? Has your work ethic declined? Can you evaluate the products of your thinking after you've written them down? It sounds like your "canvas space" has changed.

Honestly, I feel like I should read about the experiences of other people more often, because I find it difficult to imagine a world where I had some sort of middleground of some speech but in such a way that it's very hard for it to "take over" or "move to the forefront" of my awareness.

[Anonymous No.9493670]

>>9493617
I have no clear answers to that beyond what I've already said, actually. I'm still doing fine, that's the thing. Well, it feels better to believe in what you're saying. I'm actually not well informed on how others think too, on such a mechanical level.

[Anonymous No.9493690]

>>9493670
That's how stupid people think. You're better off, as you had some preperationtime to this point.

[Anonymous No.9494605]

>>9493670

As an analogy for a thinker who thinks, consider yourself a painter who paints. To me, it seems like you don't have a private canvas available to you, but your skills have remained the same. If you get good at managing your train of thought through other means (journaling, auto-locution, drafting process, dual monitors, etc.), then you're fine IMO.

Have you tried meditation for long periods of time? What about training yourself to become a synesthete or to have relative perfect pitch? Just curious if you're done much to "alter" your internal mental realm.

[Anonymous No.9495013]

>>9490708

It's hard to contribute to this right now.

[Anonymous No.9495970]

bump

[Anonymous No.9496126]

>>9495970

GOOD bump

[Anonymous No.9496717]

I have a tight scheule atm, i'll be out today and tomorrow, i'll start working on it on sunday.
>>9495013
Why is it hard?

[Anonymous No.9497519]

>>9494605
I've mostly been worried, blindly tried to get back what I had. At first I did not subvocalize even when reading (I never realized that you could read without subvocalization...), but even after I restored reading subvocalization by forcing myself to read more, I had massive problems with confusion and forgetting what I was reading mid-sentence, even in the middle of a word. It gave me strong headaches. That too went away after two months, so it convinced me that I could do a total recovery, but apparently that isn't happening, months in.

Those are interesting ideas, but pursuing them means giving up, which to be honest, I have done by now, so... I'll try some of that, why not. Life goes on. I don't want to bring this thread off topic anymore than I already have, though.

[Anonymous No.9497599]

>>9496717

The suggestion feature is really clunky when there's no content to make suggestions on. Confuses the hell out of me, makes it hard for me to format.

[Anonymous No.9498190]

bump

[Anonymous No.9498375]

>>9497519

Trust me, your personal experiences are extremely relevant, esp. WRT the conscious experience of thinking that often gets overlooked. Thank you for sharing.

[Anonymous No.9498931]

>>9475678
>How does one actually learns to think?
Some people can, and a lot cannot. You are definitely the latter. Delete your life.

[Anonymous No.9499805]

>>9498931

Why would you be mean to a stranger?

[Anonymous No.9500432]

>>9499805
because he is insecure

[Anonymous No.9500851]

>>9475678
How can you want to dedicate your time to thinking if you don't know how to think?

If you don't know how to think then you don't know when you're thinking intentionally, therefore you probably can't recognize when you're thinking.

If you can't recognize when you're thinking, then you don't know what it's like to think.

So how the fuck can you want to spend your time thinking if you don't know how to think or even know what it would be like to think?

tl;dr You don't want to think.

[Anonymous No.9500916]

>>9475678
Autism

[Anonymous No.9500924]

think sexual

[SAGE No.9500928]

>>9475678
Autism

[Anonymous No.9500932]

>>9500924
I think this is best advice actually, it's the most natural thinking order, also you might actually get laid

[Anonymous No.9501205]

>>9478197
>>9478201
>A Primer in Positive Psychology - Christopher Peterson
>Western Philosophy: An Anthology - John Cottingham
>Improve Your Social Skills - Daniel Wendler
Where could I download a copy of those books?

[Anonymous No.9501239]

>>9482118
I used to know someone like you. He was an autist. Good luck!

[Anonymous No.9501310]

>>9475678

For me the most important thing is drowning out mental noise. Not just audio, but especially visual. At any given second of a day, how many brands names are in your sight, screaming at you to pay attention and think about them? Corporate and political elements are constantly screaming and demanding that you think about them as much as possible, because it's to their benefit (even though it poisonous to your thought process).

Sometimes I even wear an eye mask and use ear plugs just because i don't want my thought processes broken by some crying baby, random advertisement, or my brain subconsciously fixating on some nearby conversation.

Remove the noise. Don't let things force you to think about random unrelated shit.

[Anonymous No.9501351]

>>9500851
Really deep stuff, man. You should be a philosopher or something.

[Anonymous No.9502562]

fast bump

[Anonymous No.9502580]

>>9499805
>crying over shit talking on a Chinese cartoon forum

[Anonymous No.9503908]

>>9502580

I ain't crying, I just thought it was pretty stupid. Still appreciated the bump.

Anybody still interested in this project? Where's the Google Drive bro?

[Anonymous No.9504142]

>>9476203
What you read may be wrong too. Some people take books written by popular authors as gospel.

[Anonymous No.9504224]

>>9492377

So why does "thinking" have to model reality or be practical?

[Anonymous No.9504228]

I'm thinking right now! ask me anything!

[Anonymous No.9504243]

>>9504224
Not that anon, but it doesn't as long as you don't confuse reality with your imagination.

[Anonymous No.9504348]

>>9504243

That's not necessarily trivial.
Let's assume someone has a belief which from your point of view seems absurd (something religious but unconventional, for instance)
This belief is not only shaping his reality, but will alter his decision making process as a result. This may even be highly beneficial or detrimental (prompting action over inaction, motivation over laziness, etc); though the beneficial beliefs would be more common in any society thanks to survivorship biases no?

[Anonymous No.9504401]

>Acknowledge your ignorance and accept the randomness
>hpmor.com
>lesswrong.com(rationality: from ai to zombies)
>Judgement under uncertainty: heuristics and biases(or The undoing project)
>Thinking Fast and Slow(Daniel Kahneman)
>The Black Swan(Nassem Nicholas Taleb)

[Anonymous No.9504447]

>>9504401
any more book recs?

I've read Thinking, Fast and Slow and all of Incerto so far and it's been some of the most influential stuff in my day-to-day life.

> tfw I knew you'd mention Taleb in your post after reading the first line

[Anonymous No.9504484]

>>9504224

I am that anon. I don't mean model reality as in "if your imagination veers from physical constraints—you're a brainlet". I was trying to point towards separating clear, powerful thinking versus muddy, derivative thinking. There is something compelling about the structures of great ideas—discovered and grasped in thinking—that brings some concept that was "known" but "hidden" into the forefront of our minds. It's a beautiful kind of truth. And there are many different topics with different "essences" of thinking required to function within those topics.

[Anonymous No.9505466]

>>9504447

I would also recommend TFTS too.

[Anonymous No.9506197]

bump

[Anonymous No.9507438]

Another bump

[Anonymous No.9507497]

>>9481473

<<<<This book

[Anonymous No.9507501]

>>9481473

<<<<<Also this one

[Anonymous No.9507665]

>>9507497
>a book written by a woman
thanks but no thanks, sweaty

[Anonymous No.9507738]

>>9507497
i saw that shilled hard on hacker news, is it actually good or just a meme for plebs? i was thinking about reading it, but there are definitely douchebags who try to spam shitty books on there, also most people there are quite smart, but occasionally a hobbyest pseud gets lost and ends up there, so hopefully it's not a shitty meme like that stupid lisp book that gets shilled on /g/ or whatever

[Anonymous No.9508526]

>>9507738

If there was a better book that did what it tried to do, then we probably wouldn't need this thread in 50% of cases.

[Anonymous No.9508528]

>>9507738

I hope not. The books so far in this thread have looked pretty solid.

[Anonymous No.9508533]

>>9508526
i think there are better books about "systems theory" that one just gets posted everywhere because it's entry level and costs 15 bucks and the rest are priced like textbooks

[Anonymous No.9508772]

>>9508533

Most of the time when someone says there is a better book they fucking tell us what the better books are.

[Anonymous No.9508778]

>>9508772

*they fucking never tell us what the better books are

[Anonymous No.9508924]

>>9486055
>20,000 words per minute
>reads infinite jest in 27 minutes

[Anonymous No.9509477]

>>9478197
>Thinking fast and slow
Pure rebbit

[Anonymous No.9510628]

>>9509477
bump

[Anonymous No.9511851]

Is anybody still interested in this?

[Anonymous No.9512709]

>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bWqLoyp5lWJ-VAKB4TnBR5nwv_tY_t8O_hWlzW-gSqY/edit?usp=sharing

Glad to see one person started contributing.

[Anonymous No.9513455]

Bump.

[Anonymous No.9513737]

>>9475678
Study logic, set theory, abstract algebra, probability and statistics.
Only when you've mastered mathematics can you move on to philosophy.

[Anonymous No.9513847]

>>9513737
That's totally off topic. He just asked how to think.

[Anonymous No.9513856]

>>9513737
Mathematics is irrelevant to philosophy.

[Anonymous No.9513857]

>>9513856
NIGG

[Anonymous No.9513858]

>>9513847
>>9513856
Studying these subjects teaches you how to think.

[Anonymous No.9513865]

>>9513858
False, both are trash. Mathematics is irrelevant trash.

[Anonymous No.9513879]

This is going to sound edgy but I feel like I can never trust what I see with my eyes, or hear with my ears. How can I be objective and just considering the facts, when I may perceive the facts differently than others? And if I only get facts from other news sources and not my direct observation, how do I know what to believe?

[Anonymous No.9513934]

>>9513865
t. unable to think

[Anonymous No.9514016]

Never take any advice on /lit/ at face value. /lit/ is full of sophomores and idiots who may be well read but read poorly and lack understanding. They have "learned" via rote memorization and can regurgitate facts or teachers' opinions without any true understanding of the concepts or how the information relates to the larger complex whole.

[Anonymous No.9514044]

>>9514016
There's the switch buddy. I don't know how people can do that. All that i've learned and the truthes were discoverd by myself.
That's what i search for. People who get there by being themselves.

[Anonymous No.9514798]

>>9475678
I think you should try to meditate. While also being a good way to relax, you cut off all external ideas, and is left only with your very own thoughts, sort of like a micro-isolation.

[Anonymous No.9516158]

Ill bump once more

[Anonymous No.9516159]

Any more good books?

[Anonymous No.9516621]

I want to second the emphasis on self-awareness and states of consciousness as a means of improving one's thinking.

I was just thinking about a thread from the other day, where multiple people claimed that they did worse if they (properly) drafted an essay ahead of a due date instead of writing everything last minute. Now, isn't that an odd circumstance? The more resources available to somebody, the worse they perform despite being able to have more opportunities to maximize the time available for thinking and take advantage of their knowledge and intelligence. If you take these testimonies at face value, then it would seem that these individuals are cursed with set limits on their performance—whatever can be crapped out in 6 hours of cramming.

Now, is there a genius out there with the same problem? Or, lowering our standards a bit, a reasonably successful academic with the same problem? I highly doubt it. Procrastination is a combination of poor motivation, poor discipline (most important), and poor thinking habits. I'm sure that one could capture the essences of their (relatively) high performance in cramming sessions and, through the application of the Pareto Principle or something, learn to generalize it to all aspects of work regardless of the time pressure.

Recognizing, focusing on, and overcoming the little delusions, inefficiencies, and insecurities—a little here and there—that spoil our potential is a key step towards becoming a self-actualized thinker.

[Anonymous No.9516649]

>>9508924
just imagine how many times you could re-read it in the time it takes average people to finish it

[Anonymous No.9516877]

Anybody interested in contributing?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bWqLoyp5lWJ-VAKB4TnBR5nwv_tY_t8O_hWlzW-gSqY/edit?usp=sharing

[Anonymous No.9517521]

>>9516877

It's a shame that this project has kind of died before it got started. I might just usurp this project next week and make it more of a "free-flow" and accessible discussion.

Probably best to start a discord for suggestions and cement contributions with select trusted contributors in Google docs.

[Anonymous No.9517651]

>>9513934
t. spookmeister

[Anonymous No.9518227]

>>9516621

>>9517521

This resonates with me. Bump.

[Anonymous No.9518524]

>>9478201

Could someone explain that Trivium image. What does "est" and "Non est" mean. Thanks. Sorry I'm so ignorant.

[Anonymous No.9518539]

>>9518524
est=is
non est=is not
i think? maybe there's a deeper meaning to it..

[Anonymous No.9518608]

>>9518524
>>9518539

I'm pretty sure it's a shitty rip-off of the Holy Trinity representation. The Trivium is great, but it gets meme'd too far.

[Anonymous No.9518631]

>>9518608

To be fair, it still makes sense. But it's a meme.

[Anonymous No.9518675]

>>9518608
>>9518631

I was thinking of buying that book...is it worth reading or am I being mislead by /lit/'s meme spergs?

[Anonymous No.9518938]

>>9518675

The Trivium is more than just a book. Any collection of books on grammar, logic, and rhetoric will do.

[Anonymous No.9518947]

>>9518938

But is the book recommended in this thread a good place to start?

[Anonymous No.9519037]

>>9518947

Are you referring to "The Trivium" by Sister Miriam Joseph? Depends how bright and motivated you are. It's a thick, quality "textbook" paperback, and you'll basically be self-teaching skills that aren't terribly common but still demand precision and rigor. I'd say 30 mins-1 hour per day several times a week is the minimum dedication that you'd need, with reading, note-taking, and practicing,

I once had a conversation with another autodidact who recommended some softer introductions before trying The Trivium. If you feel a bit uneasy after looking at some online PDFs, then I could go dig it up for you.

[Anonymous No.9519894]

>>9518947

Any questions?

[Anonymous No.9520457]

>>9519037

>I once had a conversation with another autodidact who recommended some softer introductions before trying The Trivium. If you feel a bit uneasy after looking at some online PDFs, then I could go dig it up for you.

I did find a PDF and it might be helpful to have some softer introductions to ease into it. It would be great if you could find that info and share it. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.9521551]

Ill give another bump

[Anonymous No.9521613]

try thinking as a science by henry hazlitt op

[Anonymous No.9522451]

>>9521613

What is this book like?

[Anonymous No.9522580]

>>9522451
It gives different methods on how to solve problems(the purpose of thinking) and it even touches on reading. You can download it for free at the mises institute. It's a good starter on learning how to question and think for yourself.

[Anonymous No.9523338]

>>9522580

Sounds like a good book to me. I also know of a different exercise-based book for thinking based in the Eastern tradition. I'll post it later.

[Anonymous No.9524289]

These are the great conversations that I keep coming to this retarded site for.

[Anonymous No.9524535]

>>9521613
>>9522451
>>9522580
>>9523338

I found the book. Concentration - Mouni Sadhu.

I think that Henry Hazlitt and Mouni Sadhu complement each other by covering most of the cognitive realm: the ability and training to manipulate ideas in ones head v. the habits that encourage the successful manipulation of ideas.

[Anonymous No.9526073]

>>9524289

Then contribute you faggot.

[Anonymous No.9527188]

>>9520457

Sorry for the delay. I'll start with grammar and maybe some logic and rhetoric:

>Grammar Basics:
Rex Barks - Phyllis Davenport
Grammar by Diagram - Vitto
Practical English - Semmelmeyer
Drawing Sentences - Moutoux
Descriptive English Grammar 2e - House and Harman
Understanding English Grammar - Kolln
Revising Prose - Lanham
Analysing Prose - Lanham

>Logic Basics
A Rule for Arguments - Anthony Weston
An Introduction to Formal Logic - Peter Smith

>Rhetoric Basics:
Thank You For Arguing
Classic Rhetoric for the Modern Student

[Anonymous No.9527491]

>>9527188

Many Thanks!!!!!

[Anonymous No.9527569]

Person who created the docs here.
Sorry that i've been inactive. I'm going to dedicate more time to this starting next week.
Will also do a better layout and another thread.

[Anonymous No.9527662]

>>9527188

Found PDFs of everything on libgen except

>Grammar by Diagram - Vitto
>Drawing Sentences - Moutoux
>Analysing Prose - Lanham

Anyone find these and willing to share where?

[Anonymous No.9528472]

>>9527569

No problem. Glad you're still around.

[Anonymous No.9528477]

Bump

[Anonymous No.9528480]

>>9519037
>trivium
Could you tip any harder?

[Anonymous No.9528493]

>>9528480

Hard to "fedora tip" when studying from a book written by a Catholic nun. Thanks for the bump, euphoric faggot.

[Anonymous No.9528527]

>>9528493
Catholics can be euphoric. 'muuuuh greeeeeks' is the epitome of euphoria.

[Anonymous No.9528544]

>>9528527

Stretching /r/atheism memes to include Catholic Church faggotry is a kind of bullshit I'd only expect from some /lit/ degenerate.

[Anonymous No.9528555]

>>9528544
Philhellenes and Romaboos are euphoric, just like vikangs and other Germanophiles.

[Anonymous No.9529354]

Lots of good stuff in this thread. Thanks for all the tips and recommendations!

[Anonymous No.9530566]

>>9527188

Good stuff. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.9530599]

>>9528555

I don't mind being euphoric. It's a solid basis for a general education.

[Anonymous No.9531131]

I like that many of the books recommended are from before the education system got shitted up with minorities and common core. Thanks /Lit/!

[Anonymous No.9531557]

Somewhat related online course (it's free)

https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn/

[Anonymous No.9532151]

>>9531131

Hmm... really makes me think.

OH SHIT!

[Anonymous No.9532849]

It don't be like we think it is but it do.

[Anonymous No.9534086]

It don't be like it is but we think.

[Anonymous No.9534275]

I like this bread

[Anonymous No.9535296]

Thinking is for plebs.

Folks, how are we doing today?

[Anonymous No.9535805]

>>9529354

Glad you've enjoyed it!

>>9527569

Let us know when it gets going.

[Anonymous No.9535884]

>>9532151

What made you think?

[Anonymous No.9536099]

>>9535884

I don't remember. Maybe all of this thinking is worthless if I don't have the memory for it. Let me check that other thread.

[Anonymous No.9536228]

>>9479784
You can't "self-induce" schizophrenia. You have to be predisposed to it. Marijuana can sometimes "activate" it isn't those genetically predisposed, though I don't know how reliable that fact is.

But yeah, making an imaginary friend won't cause you to suddenly come down with a case of schizophrenia.

[Anonymous No.9537232]

Everybody is crazy in some way. Even if you happen to be completely sane the rest of us will eventually drive you nuts.

[Anonymous No.9537262]

Write essays. On as many topics as you can handle.
Write counter-essays to the first essays.

Also study real Proof-Theorem mathematics. It'll give you a good handle on logic.

[Anonymous No.9538760]

>>9537262

Good advice. And if you want to learn to write better, try the Benjamin Franklin exercises.

[Anonymous No.9538945]

>>9500851
I'd like to have sex even though I'm a virgin

[Anonymous No.9538967]

>>9504401
>>9478201


Do you have to take notes while reading those? The major reason I'm so slow with books like these (important non-fiction) is that I feel I'll not be able to grasp the content without taking copious notes and rereading them later. That's all well and good but it's a really inconvenient requirement and slows my progress significantly

[Anonymous No.9539002]

So this thread that is up for 17 days is still allowed to be bumped, but this one
>>9535789
that hasn't even been up for more than a day that is about Jews is no longer capable of being bumped. Hmm

[Anonymous No.9539009]

>>9539002

>self-improvement is encouraged
>pointless bigotry is discouraged

hmmm

[Anonymous No.9539012]

>>9539009
Is it fun being a Jew?

[Anonymous No.9539028]

>>9539002
Fresh off the boat from stormfront are you? Don't worry, you'll learn how bump limits work here when someone explains it to you in short words.

[Anonymous No.9539045]

>>9539028
>>9539002
basically once a thread reaches a certain number of replies

[Anonymous No.9539047]

>>9539028
Not everyone who educators themselves on matters that are deemed "offensive" are necessarily stormfronters..

[Anonymous No.9539051]

>>9539047
You're still an idiot prone to making false inferences when they seem to support your agenda.

[Anonymous No.9539063]

>>9539051
It must be a (((coincidence))) that Jews have been kicked from over 100 countries, it has nothing to do with the Jew. It's everyone else's fault!!

[Anonymous No.9539067]

>>9539063
You missed the part where I wasn't engaging in your argument about race and was instead calling you specifically an idiot for unrelated and obvious reasons.

[Anonymous No.9539077]

>>9539067
Vey, very strong argument you have there! You've really proven us wrong!!

[Anonymous No.9539088]

>>9539077

[Anonymous No.9539134]

>>9539063
I find this hard to believe, it all depends on how you interpret things. Most Jews are better people because they have a loving community.

[Anonymous No.9539175]

>>9539063
>>9539067
I ask both of you to stop, this thread shall not be the the place where you post all the time.

[Anonymous No.9539184]

>>9539175
Fine with me.

[Anonymous No.9539191]

>>9538967

Read "How to Read a Book" by Mortimer J. Adler. He explains the process of reading books for understanding. He breaks it down to levels: 1. Elementary reading, 2. Inspectional reading, 3. Analytical and 4. Syntopical reading.

He also distinguishes reasons for reading...Information, understanding and entertainment. Understanding being the most difficult reason and goal.

Each subsequent level encompasses and includes the level preceding it. The reading skills can be applied to books down to short articles. Adler tells you to read through the entire book quickly(skimming) without stopping for anything like words or concepts you don't know or understand so you can become familiar with the structures of the book d. Then on a deeper slower read you will be able to easily pick out what you know or understand from what you don't within the context of what the author has written as a whole. Stopping and starting on every small detail you don't understand as you go along is counter productive and an impediment on an initial read through(skim/pre-read). You waste less time on the stuff you understand and focus better on the stuff you want and need to understand. Being confused or perplexed by a work, sentence or paragraph is a good thing as it high lights where you need to focus.

[Anonymous No.9539212]

>>9539028
To play devils advocate, some of the sources on the JQ thread are legit.

Sources https://www.darkmoon.me/2013/the-sexual-decadence-of-weimar-germany/

[Anonymous No.9539265]

>>9539212
That is actually quite interesting. I'm not sure about the claims of child brothels. I think such a fact would be rather well known if it was true.

[Anonymous No.9539280]

>>9539191
Sure... I don't think this answered my question well

[Anonymous No.9539359]

>>9475678

Confucian Analects, 15.31: The Master said, "I once engaged in thought for an entire day without eating and an entire night without sleeping, but it did no good. It would have been better for me to have spent that time in learning."

In the Xunzi, we read: "I once stood on my tiptoes to look into the distance, but this is not as good as the broad view obtained from climbing a hill... The gentleman by birth is not different from other people -- he is simply good at making use of external things."

Find companions on your path, and then apply yourselves to cutting and polishing one another. Sitting in thought by yourself is like rowing a boat with only a single oar.

Also, strengthen your body.

[Anonymous No.9539391]

>>9539280

Really. The point I was making was learn how to read and study better. Don't get bogged down with lots of notes. Read the book in stages, mark it up, then worry about the notes and explainations. You'll find you won't be practically copying the book while trying to read it. If I'm trying to learn something new I expect to read the book completely at least 3 times and then the rough spots for me up to 7 times with some note taking although rather than taking notes I've moved to making note/flash cards instead so I kill two birds with one stone...I note the stuff I'm weak on and I define or look up answers for the back for easier study. Mark the edges of the cards with highlighters for easy sorting. You are never going to get away from taking notes and studying but you learn to read, study, think and understand more efficiently with some of the books listed in this thread. You might want to look into some study skills books and figure out how you learn as an individual and apply those methods available that are best suited to your learning style. Its actually amazing that people actually don't get taught this middle and high school and instead bang their head against walls using incompatible techniques to their learning style.

[Anonymous No.9539422]

Wes Cecil's lectures on YouTube. He even has one titled How To Think, but I haven't listened to that one yet. His breakdown of the philosophers is top tier introduction tho.

[Anonymous No.9539434]

>>9539212
Why don't more people know about this??

[Anonymous No.9539782]

>>9539434
people don't care if it is so long ago unfortunately

[Anonymous No.9540940]

Why did this thread get hijacked by /pol/cucks?

[Anonymous No.9541299]

Just think, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.9541368]

>>9540940

Asshate jew hater couldn't handle that his thread died and ours didn't so he started posting his shit here to tank our thread.

This is why we can't have nice things

[Anonymous No.9541370]

adderall helps me
no, really, I don't believe you could teach someone how to think. it's something that you learn through dealing with problems life poses you

[Anonymous No.9541515]

>>9479751
I made two people in my head (not imaginary friends, they have never heard of me) nine months ago, and they regularly converse. Thinking still baffles me.

[Anonymous No.9541525]

>>9486055
>When we read a written text, our eyes flick through the words one at a time, identifying their graphic shape.
I don't control my eyes well enough to do this. I have to use short bursts of movement in which I pass over three or four words.

[Anonymous No.9542641]

>>9539063
>>>/pol/
go to /pol/ for this discussion

[Anonymous No.9543432]

>>9539422

Thanks for this. Some stuff looks interesting, Now I need to find time to listen to it.

[Anonymous No.9544695]

Bump. This thread has some gold in it.


GOLD, Jerry, GOLD!

[Anonymous No.9545249]

>>9544695

Gold for people who want to think. Mods. delete this thread from /lit/. This is not a place for big thinks (unless you're tuning in to the next episode of Waking Up).

[Anonymous No.9545963]

>>9539047
>..
ellipses consist of three (3) periods you turbopleb.

the best way to hone your thinking is to cultivate your inner dialogue.

[Anonymous No.9546899]

>>9542641
>le paul maymay

[Anonymous No.9547850]

>>9545249

Gold is still gold. I've been skimming over several of the books recommended and I've learned a few new things already.

[Anonymous No.9548749]

I love this thread. More good book recommendations please. Any recommendations on Study Skills books??

[Anonymous No.9549958]

Bump

[Anonymous No.9551562]

>>9549958
Giggity