Why do people say that piracy is "stealing," as if capitalist pigs should be respected? I'd say that stealing from corporations is not only not immoral, but it is moral. It is your duty.

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Anonymous Sun Apr 2 17:11:22 2017 No.9325683 [DELETED]

Why do people say that piracy is "stealing," as if capitalist pigs should be respected? I'd say that stealing from corporations is not only not immoral, but it is moral. It is your duty.

Anonymous Sun Apr 2 20:45:41 2017 No.9326688

you really sound like a 12 year old edgy neet
piracy is pretty much a "laissez faire", you need the goverment (a huger and powerful goverment) to protect the jews from anarcho-capitalist websites such as piratebay
if you need the goverment then its not capitalism, is' just mercantilism

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 2 21:42:20 2017 No.9326988 >>9325683 >ywn be knocked down and flashed by a female pirate

Anonymous Sun Apr 2 23:49:54 2017 No.9327465

it has to do with the idea that information used to be sold on a physical medium. you'd pay for a newspaper, or an LP, or a CD or a videocassette or a book.

now that we can copy that information for almost zero cost, the people who used to sell that information are freaking out, and they're calling it 'stealing' and 'piracy'.

if i torrent a film, i'm not stealing it. at worst, i am denying the people who made it the opportunity to sell it to me. ideally they'd like to sell it even if i decide it's worthless and i want my money back. downloading it lets me decide, but unfortunately very few people will download the latest Devin Townsend album and then think it was cool enough to pay for and THEN go and buy a copy.

so. that's their dilemma. they try to pass laws against copying files even though it's impossible to prevent people from doing it; they try to catch as many newbies as they can so they can levy insane fines against the ones they can catch, while the rest of us go on merrily torrenting.

Anonymous Sun Apr 2 23:57:25 2017 No.9327493

>>9327465
I agree with this, if anything piracy is the natural conclusion to capitalism when it shifted over to software.

I can either buy a CD with 15 or so songs for $10 or I can get all the music I want ever for free. As a consumer you would have to be a complete retard to go with the CD. Even the new "legal" solution of streaming is barely better than piracy, music streaming services completely fuck over pay for artists and things like Hulu don't even charge. "Intellectual Property" and digital media rights are going to be the straw that breaks the back of billion dollar corporations when they finally realize that nobody can control information until someone controls the entire internet. By that point I only pray that the artists will continue to create and just switch over to something like Patreon or something.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:21:37 2017 No.9327556 >>9325683 >>>/his/ jesus faggot

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:32:38 2017 No.9327585

>>9325683
How can you justify stealing somebodies hard work?

Imagine if there's an album you want to download but don't want to pay for simply because you hate "capitalist pigs". You are denying the massive amounts of people who worked (from the visual artist to the sound mixing to the people working in the studio) on it their fair wages and earnings. Stop being a fucking auistic edgy dumbass and recognize work put in you fag

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:32:42 2017 No.9327586 >>9325683 >suck my tit or i shoot you

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:37:34 2017 No.9327594 >>9325683 Capitalism is good. I'm a fashy free market goy, suck it. Hail Based Pinochet! free helicopter rides bitch

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:40:44 2017 No.9327602 >>9326988 >>9327586 These are the fantasies I live for.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:43:45 2017 No.9327608 >>9327585 >stealing There's that word again...

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:43:46 2017 No.9327609 >>9327585 The destruction of the music industry would be great for music. Musicians should be fucking impoverished. Performing will become a minimum wage job. And i can NOT fucking wait for that.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:50:28 2017 No.9327628
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>>9325683
And I say that communists and those who don't reciprocate respect for property rights aren't people and should be thrown out of helicopters

Now let's fight

Molon labe

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:51:57 2017 No.9327631 >>9325683 Check the all-embracing library, there is an entire folder dedicated to intellectual property. The folder is rightfully called "intellectual appropriation".

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:53:47 2017 No.9327640 File: 227 KB, 600x600, 1490741975633.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is now an an-cap thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:54:48 2017 No.9327642 File: 38 KB, 480x480, 1490141072199.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:55:36 2017 No.9327646

>>9325683

If someone spends years of their lives creating a work and you watch it or read it without rewarding them in some fashion, you are an asshole that is stealing from their hard-earned profit.

Like, sure, pirating "The Fast and The Furious" isn't a big deal, but pirating from smaller and more passionate artists can be career-ruining.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:55:51 2017 No.9327647 File: 153 KB, 1151x523, 1483056026401.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:56:26 2017 No.9327648 The thing is its not the corporation let alone the bigwigs who runs it that you're hurting. You're just like the pigs you're talking about albeit, as they'd say, 'lazy'.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:56:54 2017 No.9327650 File: 269 KB, 789x470, Cx2FiRg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:57:03 2017 No.9327652 >>9327465 >>9327493 So you literally don't think anyone making creative projects that can be stored digitally deserve to be paid for their effort? Fucking hell I hate people like you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:57:53 2017 No.9327654 File: 22 KB, 480x600, 5eb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327646 >implying your money goes to the producer and not some intermediary

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:57:57 2017 No.9327655 File: 389 KB, 1000x500, 1483324475538.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:59:00 2017 No.9327657 File: 379 KB, 1000x500, 1483324496821.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 00:59:28 2017 No.9327662 File: 29 KB, 442x313, Fuk+u+op+srs+_a85f82fea2e6cac64a1f6b9803a33795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fuck the an-caps spammers

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:00:02 2017 No.9327664 File: 313 KB, 1000x500, 1483324558212.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:01:04 2017 No.9327667 File: 37 KB, 1342x528, 1485640368794.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:01:59 2017 No.9327670

>>9327652
>don't think anyone making creative projects that can be stored digitally deserve to be paid for their effort?
I never said that, but look specifically at the people who cry the loudest about this. Multi-billion dollar industries such as film, video games, music, etc. yet I have never once heard of a local artist complaining about piracy, a poet or author complain about piracy, or some whacked out crystal child complain that they can't charge for horoscopes.

When people call piracy stealing who exactly are we "stealing" from? I guarantee it isn't the person who created the work.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:02:06 2017 No.9327671 File: 195 KB, 798x600, capitalism.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:04:05 2017 No.9327677 File: 1.45 MB, 2426x2676, ancapstudies.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:05:08 2017 No.9327681

>>9327670
Yeah, imagine if you signed your first novel or record deal, and finally got an agent and FINALLY got a publisher. If people start stealing your work, you think it's your role to heckle them about it? No, the whole POINT of those companies is to represent the talent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:05:10 2017 No.9327682 File: 160 KB, 889x960, 1487291620233.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:07:44 2017 No.9327689 File: 156 KB, 990x623, accept.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Friendly reminder that ancaps are not real anarchists but capitalists in disguise

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:08:10 2017 No.9327690 >>9327681 >the whole POINT of those companies is to represent the talent. And in this day and age where any Joe Blow can create and publish their own works essentially for free, why should I be paying the salary of ad men?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:10:38 2017 No.9327698 >>9327689 woah i guess anarchism means higher taxes bigger government playing by the rules and being a sjw now

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:12:55 2017 No.9327703

>>9327690
You don't have to, and many artists are leading the way with this (e.g., Louis ck). But taking it upon yourself to steal someone's creative work because you don't like how they sell it seems like a fucking shit excuse for being a tightarse imvhof.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:13:25 2017 No.9327705
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>>9327698
Can the worker own his work according to anacaps or is the capitalist bourgeois still the hoarder?

Do anacaps agree with no restrictions to information and thus a reform abolishing intellectual property must be in place or all this thread was just a smokescreen?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:14:24 2017 No.9327708 >>9327682 Not a commie, but under this line of thinking, you are condoning acts of violence done against you by communists, yeah?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:18:02 2017 No.9327718

>>9327705
woah you are so cool and edgy for supporting everything your professors believe. woah so edgy. Not anyone can be an entrepreneur, btw, it takes courage and grit. These are the people who put things together, the people with the big ideas. and also everything is a spook, except trannies pronouns and marxism, those things are definitely real, YOU FUCKING WHITE MALE!

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:18:58 2017 No.9327723

>>9327690
What the fuck are you talking about? You care so much about it then email the artist and ask them to sell it to you direct. But if they are at the point where they need an agent/publisher they'll probably tell you that's easier for them.

You just hate that you are small time, and spooked beyond all recognition that groups of people are still people.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:19:25 2017 No.9327728

>>9327703
>steal
There's that word again lol.

Face it, this "piracy is theft" campaign is nothing but ideological war against people who realize that there is no difference between purchasing or pirating software and "intellectual property" (which is a complete farce). The people who used to make money selling other people's work are scared because now the people have the power to go around the industry. I pray that soon the only people who create are the people who genuinely feel compelled to be artists rather than teen idol chasers who want to be the new lowest hanging fruit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:21:13 2017 No.9327732 File: 2 KB, 125x106, pepe happy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327718 >no answer

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:24:09 2017 No.9327742

Why is "corporation" synonymous with "evil" to many leftists? They were started by people, just like you, and they built up the companies to be as wide-reaching and efficient as possible. Tons and tons of work went into establishing and improving them. And yet leftists justify stealing from them because "well they're assholes anyway".

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:25:32 2017 No.9327745

>>9327723
>need an agent/publisher
>need
LOL, this isn't the 20th century. Any dickbrain with an internet connection can connect with an innumerable amount of people at any moment in time. You are trapped in the old way of thinking, hell several local authors self-publish and do just fine.

>You just hate that you are small time, and spooked beyond all recognition that groups of people are still people.
lol what are you talking about? Is an artist worth nothing until their bank account is tipping over billions of dollars? You've lost the entire point of creating, and until you understand that it isn't about the profit margin you will never create anything worthwhile.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:25:46 2017 No.9327747

>>9327728
>There's that word again lol
You're not more intelligent because you can point that out. I simply disagree with you that it's an inappropriate word.

Discount "intellectual property" all you want, I simply think it's shit behaviour to take something for nothing. You CAN do it, but my hunch is you will deep down respect yourself less and less, and certainly not garner the respect and trust of others.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:26:46 2017 No.9327749 >>9327742 99% of lefties have never worked a day in their life outside of the bottom of a corp

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:27:59 2017 No.9327753 >>9327708 Not condoning Those who attempt to violate the private property rights of others are aggressors and defending those p. prop. rights is self-defense

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:28:10 2017 No.9327754 Question: Why is this anacap spamming to proselytize about something that is not even anarchism but pure capitalism? They shouldn't be allowed to be called anacap, but cronycaps.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:30:20 2017 No.9327758 >>9327745 >You've lost the entire point of creating Please tell me The Point of creating, and also why people who choose to focus on their creative work and leave the advertising and logistic work to other people are somehow less than a dickbrain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:31:21 2017 No.9327763 File: 50 KB, 500x416, 05e8c476fccde2783d635bf64c21c49e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327749 As they say, Socialism never works cause you eventually run out of other people's money. t. Economics 101

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:31:26 2017 No.9327764 File: 160 KB, 900x697, Music Industry Divide.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fuck copyright, they harm producers and feed big fat companies

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:32:30 2017 No.9327768 File: 25 KB, 640x324, 1457051237940.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327763 But that is wrong you idiot

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:33:52 2017 No.9327772 File: 62 KB, 430x432, 5694840620693662546-image051.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] As a true anarchists, fuck banks, they DON'T DO REAL WORK and suck the blood dry from real workers

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:35:19 2017 No.9327775 File: 126 KB, 883x960, sad truth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Capitalists lies 101: They deserve all the money because "they do the hard work"

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:38:29 2017 No.9327781 File: 95 KB, 600x700, inception.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Capitalists lies 101: They deserve all the money because "they put the money for the tools"

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:39:27 2017 No.9327784
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>>9327775
It also has to do with your IQ. Science teaches us that it is objectively proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that rich people tend to be based high iq patricians while poors and mud people are dumbs.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:40:43 2017 No.9327788

>>9327682
Don't be fooled, everyone who lives in an ancap society and disagrees with the ancap ideology would get the same treatment as communists. Killing off wrong thinkers is the only way to keep an utopia that is based on the idea that everyone agrees with the core principles stable.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:40:56 2017 No.9327789

>>9327747
I will respect that you genuinely believe piracy is stealing, but where I fundamentally disagree is...
>take something for nothing
There are plenty of artists/authors/creators who work to spread their ideas or message, money is the afterthought if it is thought of at all. I love supporting the people who create because that is what they genuinely want to do, and when I hear about artists complain about how much money they lost I can't help but feel they lost the point behind creating the work. Can you think of one artist who created a masterpiece for the profit margin?

>>9327758
>Please tell me The Point of creating
Well to be honest for much of the entirety of human history creating art has been largely pointless (in a larger sociological perspective) or for direct compensation (from buyer to the creator). So why is it that in the modern age the entire point of making movies is to turn 4 billion dollars to 20 billion? For musicians to turn 10 million dollars into 10 billion?

Once again I will ask, if I enjoy a work of art created by a single artist, or group of artists why should I be paying for all of the ad space they bought? Why am I paying the people who had nothing to do with the creation of the project at all?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:41:35 2017 No.9327793 File: 75 KB, 594x960, capitalism has never been tried.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327784 You mean the intelligence to kill protesters, that is Also, you answers is idiotic anyway

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:43:36 2017 No.9327800 >>9327788 Fact: by engaging in verbal argumentation instead of using violence on me you are in fact implicitly accepting the logical tenets of libertarianism. You can't argue against libertarianism without contradicting yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:44:01 2017 No.9327803 File: 42 KB, 600x447, 551992_10152107126305942_1261183298_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327784 You are full of shit, capitalism is alive only because there is a system that rewards the worst kind of asshole, and smashes any protest

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:45:48 2017 No.9327807 >>9327800 I am accepting the logical tenants of classical liberalism, not the tenants of your phony off-shoot branch called libertarianism and its extremist form anarcho-capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:45:50 2017 No.9327808 >>9327789 Yes but you're focusing on the morality and integrity of the artist, I'm focusing on the morality and integrity of YOU - something you seem to be completely overlooking.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:46:00 2017 No.9327810 File: 65 KB, 566x407, 1455198131796.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Time to change the system, fuck capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich Fuck the vipers, ANARCHY FOR ALL

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:46:10 2017 No.9327811 >>9327753 So if someone steals the fruit of your labour it's okay to enact self-defense as well ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:47:34 2017 No.9327818 >>9327808 My morality and integrity does not hang upon how much I pay for (honestly) worthless materials. Just because I enjoy something does not mean I should be forced to pay for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:48:24 2017 No.9327821 >>9325683 Piracy is stealing, but pirating software is hilarious and causes massive asspain from the entertainment-media complex and should be encouraged always and forever

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:49:03 2017 No.9327824 File: 40 KB, 540x360, 1446914234231.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Down with capitalists, down with banks, down with copyright, down with corporate personhood, and fuck the snake posers

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:49:32 2017 No.9327826 >>9327585 >How can you justify stealing somebodies hard work? Because its my property anon

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:53:21 2017 No.9327838 >>9327585 If you wouldn't have bought the album anyway, then there is no damaged party. A victimless crime. Nobody is losing any money.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:54:31 2017 No.9327843 File: 43 KB, 600x447, gaycommieshit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327803 lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:54:55 2017 No.9327845 File: 275 KB, 1050x1299, fags.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] kys

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:56:00 2017 No.9327849 File: 286 KB, 1744x926, 1491081337619.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327793 the 'innocents' would have killed 100x more people if they had the chance

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:58:04 2017 No.9327857
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The problem is the legal system, is legal to exploit people, to steal real hard work and call it "property", is legal for big software companies to say they own everything is in your computer and call it "intellectual property", is legal to crush protests and claim is for "keeping peace"

DOWN WITH THEM

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 01:58:29 2017 No.9327859 >>9327793 I'm not far-right by any means, but none of those guys were "innocents" except for the Congolese, and I wouldn't really call that a product of capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:00:38 2017 No.9327866 >>9327803 *33 years in prison for assault, robbery, and numerous infractions while incarcerated FTFY

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:01:03 2017 No.9327867 >>9327857 >iis legal for big software companies to say they own everything is in your computer and call it "intellectual property" No it's not

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:01:27 2017 No.9327869
File: 394 KB, 460x3752, 385522.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Fuck the rats supporting capitalism, fuck the assholes justifying millions of deaths with inflated numbers, their lies and justification are rancid poison trying to stop the inevitable

IS TIME TO STOP THESE OBVIOUS RATS AND MARCH

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:01:54 2017 No.9327870 >>9327810 >>9327857 not to be a dick, but why are all people with this ideology so autistic?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:02:44 2017 No.9327871 File: 193 KB, 2048x2048, C8B3gJMW0AEPrT2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327869 Yes please, give us an excuse.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:02:58 2017 No.9327872 This RAT only uses namecalling after losing arguments, no surprise

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:03:47 2017 No.9327876 >>9327872 Does rat mean jew?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:03:48 2017 No.9327877 >>9327652 LUL 99% of that money will never reach the artist

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:03:58 2017 No.9327878 >>9327869 >thugs and terrorists kill thousands >leftist: haha white ppl deserved it >policeman kills ONE vicious thug in self defence >Leftist: wahh wahhh awahhhwawh im a big fucking baby wahh

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:04:05 2017 No.9327880 >>9327871 Are you implying you are going to kill people? Are you going to kill people for protesting? Not very anarchist from you

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:04:59 2017 No.9327885 >>9327880 We both know you guys are going to burn down shit, destroy property and hurt innocent bystanders.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:04:59 2017 No.9327886

>>9325683
>Down with capitalists
He posts from his iPhone in a Starbucks
>down with banks
He says from his mother's house, for which she just made the last mortgage payment
> down with copyright
Says the aspiring author whose livelihood will one day depend on it
> down with corporate personhood
"I have not read Citizens United and lack the legal education to understand it anyway, but the democrats didn't like it and I always follow the party line."
> and fuck the snake posers
"We need to end oppression! Quick, let's go attack those folks whose only request is to be left alone!"

>>	Sage Mon Apr 3 02:04:59 2017 No.9327887 >>9325683 How does this correspond to literature??

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:06:13 2017 No.9327892 >>9327869 >In one year in the US 1 of 266 officers is accused of a violent crime blah blah blah I wonder what the rate is for the general population? I wonder how many edgy anarchists have been accused of a violent crime lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:06:54 2017 No.9327896 File: 619 KB, 600x900, _8001-b8pAzOF586742948.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Who is this person who doesn't want change? Who is willing to kill protesters and is completely in tune with capitalism?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:07:10 2017 No.9327899

>>9327880
those people want to establish a totalitarian state, so we gotta be reasonable here. A little right wing tyranny is better in the long term than extreme left wing tyranny. Think pinochet, he left chile better off than it was before. Compare that, for example with stalinist sharia transgender dystopia.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:07:18 2017 No.9327900 Okay commie

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:07:37 2017 No.9327903 >>9327896 >Who is this person who doesn't want change? People just don't want YOUR change

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:08:15 2017 No.9327906 >>9327896 Authority= the PC marxist establishment

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:10:37 2017 No.9327917 File: 16 KB, 255x242, 3f10f79350152fa9c9927d1d5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This same person who is willing to more massacres to give more power to the establishment, but less power to the worker He loves banks, yet despises the worker

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:10:38 2017 No.9327918 File: 56 KB, 500x500, 59e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327896 I don't want THIS kind of change

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:10:56 2017 No.9327921 >>9327870 He's baiting with strawen, at least in the case of >>9327810

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:11:01 2017 No.9327922 File: 1015 KB, 3178x2119, 1468344466999.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327896 >Who is this person who doesn't want change Agreed, who could ever say no to more vibrant displays of cultural diversity?

>>	Sage Mon Apr 3 02:11:05 2017 No.9327923 >>9327689 Yan don't say??? Fucking retard lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:12:57 2017 No.9327931 File: 287 KB, 1024x768, television_rules_the_nation_by_vhm_alex.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why does he wants an status quo that favors the establishments, that favors BIG BANKS, in detriment of the middle class

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:14:58 2017 No.9327940 >>9327931 So we should abolish the middle class to protect the middle class?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:16:06 2017 No.9327943
File: 30 KB, 640x464, 64233_641605605896588_750888908_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yet this same person want change that is good for the establishment, that is good to big multinational corporations, but not good for low and middle class, who put on excuses and fearmongering for daring to protests when all hell is for the people

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:19:17 2017 No.9327956 File: 941 KB, 2348x1470, Money.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] He is only here to defend the establishment, to defend big banks, to defend multinational corporations

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:20:29 2017 No.9327961
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>>9327943
>Yet this same person want change that is good for the establishment, that is good to big multinational corporations, but not good for low and middle class

Exactly! Vote Trump 2020!
Don't let the neo-liberal left take over again!

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:24:11 2017 No.9327975 File: 180 KB, 950x534, cap.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] He always try to hide his real intentions in smokes and mirrors Is time to ask who REALLY is this person

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:28:07 2017 No.9327987
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>>9327689
Oh yeah, how are they going to survive without the prestigious label of 'Anarchist'?

I don't think there are people more despised in the general public than anarchist communists.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:30:27 2017 No.9327993
File: 93 KB, 850x400, quote-it-is-better-to-be-a-human-dissatisfied-than-a-pig-satisfied-better-to-be-socrates-dissatisfied-john-stuart-mill-252982.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

One last question before I leave, will this thread go 404 before it hits the archive?

Think on all I said.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:40:13 2017 No.9328018

>>9327652
i didn't say they don't deserve to be paid. what i am trying to say is that the nature of the digital medium makes it almost impossible for them to make a living, given that little shits like you will happily download an album or a book rather than pay for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:51:52 2017 No.9328051 >>9327885 t. literal Nazi reasoning, try and make your precious NAP less flimsy next time

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:52:10 2017 No.9328052 >>9327818 I suppose if you honestly feel that it's worthless then that's your call, though I feel sorry for you spending your time on worthless things. Nobody said anything about forced to, you're clearly not. I just think it's the right thing to do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:53:01 2017 No.9328056 >>9327896 >its red and its pro-state so it must be marxist in /lit/ too this is incredibly embarrasing

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:53:06 2017 No.9328058 >>9327646 >hard-earned profit It's not "earned" yet if they didn't get it. And if they didn't get it it means they didn't work hard enough.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:53:13 2017 No.9328059 >>9328018 I do pay for it. I'd prefer to pay than pirate. That's my fucking point you lunatic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 02:56:37 2017 No.9328068 File: 11 KB, 600x299, 1481908483452.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9328051 I am not saying do it preemptively, we can wait for you to fuck up on your own and then we defend ourselves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:01:26 2017 No.9328083 >>9328051

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:02:58 2017 No.9328087 File: 85 KB, 460x480, punching-nazis-comic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9328051 this is the pic

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:05:34 2017 No.9328091

>>9328052
>I suppose if you honestly feel that it's worthless then that's your call, though I feel sorry for you spending your time on worthless things.
Art is worthless. I am an artist and I still see it that way. It's nice when I can sell something, but that isn't the entire reason why I create.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:09:14 2017 No.9328097 >>9328091 >It's nice when I can sell something So I suppose what I am advocating is for people to be nice rather than pirate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:10:39 2017 No.9328101 File: 42 KB, 600x600, goingonreddit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw I had a chance to be the first post on this thread but I though /lit/ would be smart enough to ignore it

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:10:51 2017 No.9328102

>>9327775
>>9327781
See, dumb people measure the "hardness" of work by the suffering they feel. Successful people measure the "hardness" of work by the actual contribution made.

Organization, for example, is a valuable service without which great things can't happen. A Marxist of all people must understand this, no? But they stick to their dogmatic narrative anyway.

Why is this? Why don't people grow past this solid but obsolete attempt at socioeconomic analysis? If you ask me it's because well-meaning, bright young people are being given it dogmatically, as a salve for the ills of the world and not as fuel for their own innovative thinking.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:21:49 2017 No.9328127 File: 239 KB, 600x849, 1401758818114.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9327781

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 03:28:17 2017 No.9328135 >>9328127 I like this 10-minute edit a lot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 04:32:09 2017 No.9328267 >stealing is your moral duty t. marx

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 04:50:26 2017 No.9328314 >>9328127 The edit would make sense if the guy fixed the machines himself, made the machines himself, did the R&D himself...As it is he's just saying "Look here, I have to exploit a WHOLE BUNCH of workers just to keep myself in ivory backscratchers!"

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 04:54:26 2017 No.9328330 >>9328314 Allocating resources is work, and creates value like any other kind of work.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 04:56:03 2017 No.9328335 >most popular threads on /lit/ are brain-dead tier bait Wow you guys sure are smart and stuff

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 04:58:48 2017 No.9328341 >>9326688 >anarcho-capitalist websites such as piratebay Piratebay is purely anarchist. There is no capitalist element whatsoever. Another common mistake - bitcoin is anarcho-communist, not capitalist or libertarian, at least by intention.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:04:53 2017 No.9328352

>>9328330
Telling people to work faster creates more value.

Here's an idea, I can create value in your own life: GET A SECOND JOB YOU LAZY BUM. Don't forget to transfer some of your earnings into my accounts for giving you the idea.

I have more management experience than you've had hot dinners, so I won't get into the whys and wherefores of how "resource allocation" is even more bull, but typically you want the workers to organize themselves. If they themselves create value for a company they also deserve to be paid more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:09:39 2017 No.9328364 >>9325683 piracy isn't theft though

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:11:43 2017 No.9328371 >>9328341 They run ads though, isn't that a pretty capitalist thing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:12:10 2017 No.9328376 >>9325683 How are authors going to support themselves if everything they write is pirated? Question: why do you think Hollywood has become total crap in the last 20 years? Hint: it's related to the thread topic.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:13:37 2017 No.9328380

what ancaps will never get is that 'cronyism', 'corporatism' and even what they refer to as 'socialism' (government does things=socialism xD) are inherent to capitalism. Without the state, capitalism collapses. Social democracy is actually the best way to protect the capitalist mode of production as it prevents revolution.

>inb4 ancaps keep false flagging
>inb4 'fucking obamunist! bailing out banks is communism!'

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:17:03 2017 No.9328389

>>9328352
Still pushing the "all the fat cats do is tell people to work faster" meme, are we?

Anyone who has actually been apart of real work projects (even volunteer or charity work) knows that organization, procuring, allocation, capital - these are real contributions without which the endeavor can't succeed. You can subsume the skills and accountabilities for these functions into the worker's, but all you've really done is change the frame and often introduced inefficiency.

As someone who has actually successfully converted multiple mid-to-large scale operations so that the workers control the means of production and function without managers - operations that are still increasingly profitable today - you won't be able to convince me of your narrative.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:18:10 2017 No.9328392

>>9328371
It'd be nice if your ideology exempted you from having to pay for servers but it doesn't. And hey do you notice how some commies buy things?

Their subversion of abstract property rights is anti-capitalist. Also their attitude to the legal challenge is not especially capitalist - they don't appear to be in it for the money.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:21:15 2017 No.9328400 >>9328392 Even in your ideology, you cannot escape the market and market concerns. It all stems from human choice, the eternal thorn in Marxists' collective sides.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:24:16 2017 No.9328410

>>9328341

Yeah, an-coms sure are big fans of money and property, you fucking moron. Bitcoin is heavily ancap. There's zero use for a currency like bitcoin for a crypto-anarchist from the communist perspective.

I know everyone on the internet irrationally hates ancaps and every collectivist anarchist gets assmad every time an ancap dares call themselves anarchist, but that's no reason to blatantly lie. It's not even consistent.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:25:02 2017 No.9328411

>>9328389
>As someone who has actually successfully converted multiple mid-to-large scale operations so that the workers control the means of production and function without managers - operations that are still increasingly profitable today - you won't be able to convince me of your narrative.
Give me an outline of what management philosphies/strategies you implemented for this and why, and the problems you encountered. ATM you sound like a LARPer, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Inb4 you post some bullshit that amounts to "I change le leadership style" that doesn't really mean anything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:26:36 2017 No.9328416 >>9328380 Revolution against what? If there is no state or monarch, what the fuck kinda revolutions you worried about?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:30:25 2017 No.9328422

>>9328410
Amir Taaki just did a whole bunch of interviews mentioning the anarchocommunist core behind bitcoin (and that a number have split from that since it became successful). I won't go into it because you probs won't understand it, but the idea of organising cybernetically with a blockchain is not especially pro capitalist or libertarian.

>>9328400
The idea is not so much that the market goes as the dynamics of the market change in Marxism. The end to the material dialectic is not the same as an end to trade.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:34:00 2017 No.9328428

>>9328411
One of my pet successes was in the pulp and paper industry, about 5000 workers. Operation was not profitable and I was brought in to fix that with wide-sweeping authority.

I was allowed to create SOPs and training materials for every level of worker, and eventually set other ROB standards that gave real strength to the change. The biggest unexpected thing was convincing the workers (who had by then been completely galvanized by the shift in wordview) to jointly buy ownership from the then shy owners at a relatively low price.

No unions, no managers, no support departments. Just workers who all owned the company, kept documentation / their own skills up to date, and received dividends according to responsibilities.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:36:07 2017 No.9328431

>>9328376
1. They get their studio heads from tech. companies instead of the film industry nowadays and they wouldn't know what to look for in a daily let alone what's involved in making lasting films.
2. They make more money foreign than domestic because overseas markets are bigger, hence dumbing down culturally (because Chinese people don't know what it's like to grow up in an American suburb in order to market to them it's easy to just assume that no one in the audience knows what it's like).
3. They upped the budget of each film and drastically reduced how many films were made, putting all their eggs in fewer baskets.
4. They made the 3-day weekend their standard when films used to grow over weeks or even months.

None of these changes are necessarily to do with piracy. The film industry thought it was all over when TV was invented and what followed that was one of the most fruiful periods in US film history.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:36:20 2017 No.9328433 >>9328422 Please walk me through your conception of how markets might change in Marxism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:38:26 2017 No.9328441 >>9328428 Are you in high school?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:39:33 2017 No.9328443 >>9328428 My apologies, there was an exception: they outsourced some payroll services. They still did all their own financial due diligence. >>9328441 I'm 63.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:41:28 2017 No.9328445

>>9328422

Life is "pro-capitalist", dude. History has shown it. Capitalism is the only economic system truly capable of working without a government. People can theorise all day about things like bitcoin, but ancaps use it in droves and it's shown to aid anarcho-capitalism's ideas while doing nothing for the lost cause that is anarcho-communism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:44:31 2017 No.9328449 >>9328445 Bitcoin is an nation-agnostic currency that functions without formal banks. No more, no less.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:45:13 2017 No.9328452

>>9328433
YOU CANNOT KNOW THAT. The end of a dialectic is the birth of a whole new organism that has been in a sense fed by the previous dialectic ideas. One Marxist idea somewhat outside of that is the from each according to their ability to each according to need redistribution principle. So it could be a market with fair redistribution built in.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:48:07 2017 No.9328457

>>9328452
Of course I cannot know your conception of things, unless you make the effort first to conceive them and then to describe them to me.

Besides, to refer to it and what it will or won't be, as you've done, is to claim to know something about it will be like. So share. Conjure eloquence and courage and paint me a picture.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:48:30 2017 No.9328458 >>9328443 None of what you wrote shows any sense of knowing any management philosophies or theories, i.e. I do not believe you. It read like something a dumbass highschooler might botch together super quick tho.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:50:18 2017 No.9328465 >>9328458 So you want buzzwords as some sort of appeal to authority? That really does not interest me. So go your own way, unless you have some sort of useful question.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:53:29 2017 No.9328473

>>9328457
>Besides, to refer to it and what it will or won't be, as you've done, is to claim to know something about it will be like.
Uh, stop right there and check your ideology. I'm an epistemoligical anarchist.

What I would point out: Marx's thinking is directly descended from Adam Smith. Smith's views on trade are such that it is inseperable from being a human being - it's pretty much what separates us from the animals. All of Marx's thinking centres around trade, I have no reason to believe he thought it would go away ever.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 05:58:20 2017 No.9328485

>>9328473
I'm not interested in your ideology. If you say something, it means something. If you cannot explain what you meant when asked, then you were just spouting words you didn't take seriously.

>trade as inseparable from from our humanity
Oh, I agree. My question wasn't for Marx per se, but for you who invoke his name.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:01:32 2017 No.9328491

>>9328465
I want managerial terms/ideas that you understand and HAVE APPLIED irl to demonstrate you could possibly have maybe been telling the truth in your claim above. Management is not telling skilled workers how to do their jobs (the buzzwords you used mean that) and then for some reason buying the company (which fundamentally changes a hell of a lot in every jurisdiction I know of - you wouldn't buy a company like this for worker ownership in reality). You failed the act bro.

Just to point out you are specifically trying to convince *me* here with an appeal to experience.
>>9328389

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:02:55 2017 No.9328492 >>9328485 >If you say something, it means something. If you cannot explain what you meant when asked, then you were just spouting words you didn't take seriously. Too... many... problems... with... this... claim...

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:05:19 2017 No.9328497 >>9328485 And I'll add, all I said is that trade doesn't necessarilly cease to exist in communism within Marxist thought.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:15:35 2017 No.9328511

>>9328491
So, still no question, and a fundamental lack of understanding regarding the subject matter.

I shouldn't have got my hopes up. But hey, at least you get to tell yourself that I was a big faker and you couldn't have learned anything from me even if you had known which questions to ask?

The very idea of asking which managerial patterns I used to establish an organization without managers... might as well try to verify calims of being a trainer without knowing anything about the divide between learning- and teaching-based methodologies.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:18:20 2017 No.9328518

>>9327768

You can work all you want, but if there's no capital to begin with, there will be no fruit of that labor. Entrepreneurs perform a function. They take the risk, they invest money and time and delay their payment. Workers get compensated by the hour when they work. Entrepreneurs get paid if and when the venture succeeds. If the workers were willing to defer payment and assume risk, they too could see greater reward. Time is worth something. It's easy to look at Jobs and see a rich, exploitative asshole, but no one that works for him sat in their garage without pay laying the groundwork.

Also, labor theory of value has been thoroughly disproven in economics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:20:11 2017 No.9328522 >>9328511 Took you a WHOLE 15 MINUTES to come up with that huh?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:21:57 2017 No.9328525 >>9328518 >but no one that works for him sat in their garage without pay laying the groundwork. You like Apple computers then.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:24:17 2017 No.9328531 >>9328525 You're tired and not making any sense. Go to bed, stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:26:48 2017 No.9328535 >>9328531 >Apple computers are one of the few companies that started in a garage >guy referencing this is completely unaware I'm honestly trying to think of others. Virgin Records sort of did I guess.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:29:03 2017 No.9328541 >>9328522 Not that guy, but some of us have lives, anon. I shitpost around my job and family - this shithole does not and should not come first.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:30:47 2017 No.9328545 >>9328492 Name three.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:30:52 2017 No.9328546 >>9328525 It doesn't matter. People obviously like Apple or it wouldn't exist. Needs are met. Unlike centrally planned societies where resources are wasted and needs go unmet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:31:36 2017 No.9328550 >>9328541 You are jumping the gun there a little uninvolved bystander san.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:32:36 2017 No.9328553

>>9328546
This whole notion that "there must be a need" is fucking bullshit. People know enough about psychology to literally brainwash people into thinking they have a need when they fucking don't. This is also why so many people are fucking fat and disgusting.

We went past a needs based market a long time ago.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:33:45 2017 No.9328555 >>9328550 Your insecure paranoi is adorable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:34:52 2017 No.9328557 >>9328553 >this guy >doesn't even know what needs are

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:35:42 2017 No.9328558

>>9328546
So when they're laying the groundwork for a venture in their garage and not having any present needs and potentially no future needs met (the whole risky part), they are in reality having their needs met? And this company is a good comparison to a centrally planned country why? None of that made sense.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:36:02 2017 No.9328559

>>9328550
We're all bystanders here until we're not anon. Alright, I AM that other anon, what difference does it make? I just hate for someone to think they had won an argument simply because the other anon stepped away for a few minutes to do something more important. I would want that person to stay dreadfully miserable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:37:26 2017 No.9328564 >>9328555 >guessing obvious samefagging is paranoia

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:38:29 2017 No.9328568 >>9328559 >I just hate for someone to think they had won an argument What was that argument again?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:38:58 2017 No.9328569

>>9328557
I think you'll find that if you can stomach to put that high horse to rest for a bit you'll see that what I posted makes sense.

People having their needs met is not a valid criteria, it is misleading. People should not be free to be tormented.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:40:16 2017 No.9328575 >>9328568 Someone trying to convince another anon he did not do a job he claimed he did, and IF he did then it had no value. Real charmer, you are.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:40:17 2017 No.9328576 >>9328557 He p much just spewed Chomsky's view on this whole thing so I would suggest you email Chomsky to inform him of the fatal flaw in his thinking.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:40:39 2017 No.9328579 >>9328569 What is a need. Your instinct is right, I am trying to get to commit to a stance so that I can explain exactly why you're wrong. Do you actually know what needs are?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:42:45 2017 No.9328583 >>9328576 The difference being that C actually possessed some depth of reasoning w.r.t. what he was saying.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:45:18 2017 No.9328589

>>9328579
Depends on the level of analysis. We could talk about individual needs or societal needs. I personally would argue that the societal needs are a spook, being an amalgamation of individual needs.

Individual needs are biological, survival, social, self esteem, spiritual, etc. They range from immediate safety and reproductive motivations to pretty much whatever people trick themselves and each other into thinking they should be motivated for.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:45:32 2017 No.9328590

>>9328575
I outlined my own experience and views ending with "workers who create value deserve to be paid more", and then got a load of bullshit trying to say how that isn't true because muh REALLY real life experience.

It's like when you virgins try to describe what sex or women are like, you can almost smell the bullshit from the screen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:46:46 2017 No.9328591 >>9328590 Yeah, now I can't tell what the fuck your point is amongst all the buttflabbergastery.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:47:56 2017 No.9328595 >>9328583 I don't believe Chomsky actually tackled whether there MUST be a need ever. It strike at the very heart of economic thinking tho, so no nobody itt or thus mentioned has dealt with it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:49:38 2017 No.9328600 >>9328595 >tfw I actually am Chomsky and he doesn't believe me, and says I have no depth of reasoning

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:49:51 2017 No.9328601 >>9328591 >he thinks I had a point Now what was YOUR point?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:51:11 2017 No.9328603 >>9328589 >needs can be anything Fuck off then, if you can't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:51:33 2017 No.9328606 >>9328600 Chomsky would just be like "Actually I, I mean he uh... he mentioned it here" withba citation or link or whatever. Again just email the dude he usually writes back.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:53:02 2017 No.9328608 >>9328603 I think reread that m80 that is not what was said there at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:54:18 2017 No.9328609 >>9328603 THAT WAS MY FUCKING POINT HERE >>9328553 Are you genuinely retarded? Oh you've just been stalling for time because this realisation actually fucks your whole perspective.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:54:40 2017 No.9328611 >>9328608 >needs... range from X to ... pretty much whatever Pretty sure he read it aright, after all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:55:27 2017 No.9328612 >>9328603 >if you can't If I can't what? Play into your pre-planned dialogue where you show me how I'm wrong? Go fuck yourself you arrogant shitdick.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:55:44 2017 No.9328613 >>9328590 >deserve to be paid more More than what? Be specific.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:57:42 2017 No.9328615 >>9328613 >If they produce more value... more than what, be more specific 1 it's a relative statement. 2 you cannot into English so sort that out

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:57:44 2017 No.9328616

>>9328611
That was the point. Some needs are inherent, others are spooks. So a needs based criteria is not valid for assessing an economic system. The whole "it satisfies a need therefore its valid" criteria for judging the existence of a social commodity is fucked, because people will LITERALLY brainwash others into thinking they have a need just so they can deliver it.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 06:59:08 2017 No.9328617

>>9328612
If you can't commit to a position, ANY position at all. If you had a position that wasn't ready to topple, you wouldn't need to fear a response.

>pre-planned
What, you're going to whine about people knowing things in advance, now? Yeah, sure, knowledge and rhetoric is always just supposed to phenomenologically appear like some sort of orgasm in response to stimulus.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:00:10 2017 No.9328618 >>9328615 Yes, it's a relative statement and I was asking for the other member in the relation. It's not hard to respond to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:02:24 2017 No.9328622 >>9328617 M8 whatever shitty education you had obviously isn't helping and no amount of samefagging is gonna convince people of whatever the fuck you want to convince them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:02:46 2017 No.9328623 >>9328609 A definition for X is just as important, if not more so, when asserting there is no X.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:03:47 2017 No.9328624 >>9328622 Stop being so triggered, lol. Actually, don't stop. I need more of this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:04:12 2017 No.9328628 >>9328618 You honestly cannot work out what "if they produce more value [for a company] they deserve more pay" means?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:05:05 2017 No.9328629

>>9328617
See
>>9328616
And to take this position even further, some people don't even think they HAVE a need, but we as onlookers determine that they do. If someone is killing themself with heroin, or killing others with knives, we tend to stop them. The social commodity that delivers a rehabilitation service is forced upon the individual for their own good. On the societal level, it is possible that whole societies might "need" something that they don't WANT. So things like education and healthcare etc. get shit all funding compared to private companies shilling the same old plastic crap.

I seem ambiguous in my definition of needs because I'm saying they are ambiguous, and that is exactly why they cannot be used as a criteria.

>>9328623
When did I EVER say there was no such thing as needs you fucking dumbass? I said people can play fast and loose with them, and be unconscious of them, and BRAINWASH others into thinking they need something they don't. So "meeting a need" cannot be a good criteria for assessing the usefulness of a commodity beyond a certain point.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:05:14 2017 No.9328630 >>9328624 Why not just become a communist broheim, you obv cannot argue against it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:05:36 2017 No.9328631 >>9328628 Why do you find a request for specificity so threatening? You could mean it several different ways, just choose one and present it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:08:11 2017 No.9328635 >>9328631 I'm not finding anything threatening, I'm surprised. What different things do you think it could mean?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:10:57 2017 No.9328638 >>9328635 We could go back and forth like this for a while. How about this? You tell me in good faith what you meant, I'll explain some of the other possible meanings in something approaching the same spirit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:13:06 2017 No.9328641 >>9328601 That if someone stops responding to you for 15 minutes on a Vietnamese gut-rucketing board it doesn't mean they were lying to you.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:15:37 2017 No.9328642

>>9328638
In the Aristotelian/Lockean sense of being/ownership, of you have a hand in making something what it is you also own some of its value (as a somewhat simplified overview). As such this creates a moral desert where if you create more value you deserve to recieve more value i.e workers who produce more value deserve to be paid more.

It doesn't need to be made specific. And it's like common sense now in p much all western countries even if it isn't followed through.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:17:20 2017 No.9328645 >>9325683 >I'd say that stealing from corporations is not only not immoral, but it is moral. It is your duty. Not an argument. Not literature.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:17:30 2017 No.9328646 >>9328641 Nah m8. You posted a bunch of crap that doesn't make any sense when asked to show you had ANY management skills nevermind enough to sort out mid to large enterprises or w/e the fuck was written above.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:18:53 2017 No.9328649
File: 47 KB, 357x411, images (19).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9328557
>>9328579
>>9328583
>>9328603
>>9328613
>>9328617
>>9328618
>>9328623
>>9328631
>>9328638
>>9328646
>I have no clear position to offer in response to these people so I'll just keep asking them to explain more in a superior tone
>hopefully they'll use a slightly innacurrate sentence that I can highlight at some point

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:20:08 2017 No.9328652

>>9328642
Look, for god's sake, I'm asking what the "more" in your statement is referring to. The proper form to answer my question is:

>I meant that the workers I described, in the conditions I described, deserve to be paid more than [some description of an amount here].

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:20:47 2017 No.9328655 >>9328646 Just for the record, I came in with this post >>9328541. I was never the 63 year old manager dude. I think he left to go do something else, just another evidence in favour of him being more wise than us.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:22:11 2017 No.9328659 >>9328655 He's completely convinced that everyone in this thread that bother him is probably the same person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:23:28 2017 No.9328662 File: 48 KB, 429x343, images (35).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9328659 >tfw I am

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:23:29 2017 No.9328663 >>9328649 Hard to say something inaccurate when you won't answer the question in the first place, innit?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:24:23 2017 No.9328666

>>9328652
So there are two stages brainlet:
Stage 1: less value is being made than at stage 2 and the worker is being paid less than at stage 2.
Stage 2: more value is being made than at stage 1 due to actions of the worker, therefore the worker deserves to he paid more than at stage 1.

Not being able to get this is a sign of Aspergers, and I mean that in all seriousness. If it turns out you have aspergers then I sort of feel a little bad about the brainlet thing but I do believe you still deserve to be called a brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:25:53 2017 No.9328673 >>9328662 Purusha go home, you're drunk.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:26:11 2017 No.9328675 >>9328655 There was no 63 yo manager dude. >>9328662 >>9328659 I just came in at >>9328646 So lol I guess?

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:29:36 2017 No.9328683

>>9328663
What question was that, anon?

>>9328675
Uuuuum
>>9328443
>I'm 63

Do you guys even read the responses you argue with?

>>9328673
I actually am, but then so are all of you.

Can this fuckwit: >>9328617 just please respind to this position
>>9328616
>>9328629
OR admit he came here for masturbation and not discussion.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:31:25 2017 No.9328686

>>9328666
Sometimes it pays to be rigorous. I gave you the chance to specify yourself because your weird attitude made me think you wouldn't like being misrepresented.

As promised, I'll explain some of the other possible meanings of "the workers deserve to be paid more". By that statement, you could have meant that you believed workers deserve to be paid:
- more than they currently are (you chose this option)
- more than a capitalist system is capable of valuing their labour
- more than the owners of the means of production
- and more!

Sure, depending on your views there can be various states of overlap between these different meanings. But you don't think that everyone has the same views as you do, do you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:32:03 2017 No.9328688 >>9328683 The point is you're pretending to be 63 as well as a whole group of people now? It's weird bud. Like you have an agenda.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:34:58 2017 No.9328697 >>9328688 The other explanation, of course, is that your paranoia (verging on clinical) is confusing your interpretation of the entire thread.

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:35:36 2017 No.9328700

>>9328686
>- more than a capitalist system is capable of valuing their labour
>- more than the owners of the means of production
>- and more!
The top one doesn't make sense. And the owners of the means of production are not deifned or mentioned I don't see why you would think that a possible meaning.

What you mean by specificity is in fact concreteness, you need actual examples. That is typical Aspergers so if you haven't been get checked out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:36:33 2017 No.9328703 >>9328688 >the guy shitposting Marx for over 15 hours in a piracy thread >thinks the other guys (who he thinks are 1 guy) are the ones with an agenda

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:37:22 2017 No.9328706 >>9328697 You just responded to yourself as if you weren't yourself m80. Now you're trying to convince yourself I'm someone else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:39:13 2017 No.9328710 >>9328703 Who's shitposting Marx? The Marx related posts have been interesting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:39:22 2017 No.9328712 >>9328706 Nope!

Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:40:12 2017 No.9328716

>>9328700
Not an example, but a definition. More than what. Good at what. This is specificity, not concreteness. Turning the vague into the specific encourages more fruitful and practical discussion.

To pretend that talking about workers who deserve to be paid more in a capitalist system in a Marxist frame doesn't invoke the idea of the bosses who own the means of production is pretty silly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:42:12 2017 No.9328721 >>9328716 I'm using a (now explicit) Aristotelean/Lockean frame, and again that is how p much all capitalist systems think of ownership in general.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:42:29 2017 No.9328723 The creators and their work should be respected OP Do you believe in workers self management OP? That the workers should own the means of production? Should be the principal beneficiaries of the toil of their sweat? Then you must respect the creator.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:46:07 2017 No.9328727 >>9328683 Just come back from doing my lifts and see this. Lord! Are you now a 63 year old with dementia and mpd? Try opening your mind broheim and stop the shitposting and you'll have more fun. I'm out!

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:48:46 2017 No.9328735 >>9328727 You're trying a little too hard, my man. Don't ruin it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:50:52 2017 No.9328740 >pre-emptive strikes don't violate the NAP ancaps are literal neocons

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 3 07:52:54 2017 No.9328745 >>9328727 >>9328735 Is the thread dead now? I think I'm going too m80s.

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/lit/ - Literature