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/lit/ - Literature


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9261776 No.9261776 [Reply] [Original]

SHOTS FIRED

>> No.9261798

fuck these fraud institutions

go autodidact

>> No.9261814

>>9261776
that excerpt is ''alt-right, libertarian rational neckbeard blog'' tier

>> No.9261963

>>9261798
Im even starting to consider the possibility that this is maybe more than a meme

>> No.9261983

>>9261963
It's not.
It's usually uneducated idiots (usually youtubers) on the internet who think that university is corrupted by a leftist conspiracy, and that think that university is necessary only to get a piece of paper.
What they don't consider is that the best way to learn something is with a teacher, directly interacting with what is being presented in the presence of someone who knows what you're talking about. This is infinitely valuable, and absolutely irreplaceable.

>> No.9261997 [DELETED] 

>>9261983

>It's usually uneducated idiots (usually youtubers) on the internet who think that university is corrupted by a leftist conspiracy

How do you deny it? Liberal professors outnumber conservatives 5 to 1.

>> No.9262006

>>9261997
>Liberal professors outnumber conservatives 5 to 1

>he thinks that liberals are leftist

>> No.9262007

>>9261997

that's because liberals have higher IQs

>> No.9262010

>>9262006

Okay let's just redefine words when the facts become inconvenient.

>> No.9262015

>>9262007
btw this is statistically true
Also I'd say that leftist causes, usually, have the upper hand when it comes to ethics and morality
To justify the status quo you need to compromise, which is not something that you would expect from someone who is studying that subject at its higher level.

>> No.9262019

>>9262010
Liberals are for capitalism and minor social reforms. This is not what most leftist academics are arguing for, and in fact you will find very few academics that truly have their ideals and values represented by major liberal parties (such as the DNC in the US).

>> No.9262020

>>9262007

Apparently liberals are conservative now so what you're saying is people that are right wing have higher IQ's.

>> No.9262033

>>9261983
>think that university is corrupted by a leftist conspiracy
There's a fucking Women's Studies for crying out loud.

>> No.9262034

>>9262007
If that was the case, they wouldn't be self destroying their own societies.

Like not breeding for one.

>> No.9262039

>>9262033
>there are like 10 courses out of 500 with which I disagree

Stop pretending that Women's and Gender studies are what university are built upon for fuck's sake.
Also stop pretending that you know ANYTHING about those studies, and that your knowledge of them goes beyond dumb feminists you've seen on tumblr and youtube.

>> No.9262041

I'm a PhD student at an Ivy League university.

If you people knew how the rich see themselves, and see you, you'd stage a full-scale fucking revolution.

They talk about you like you're the necessary dregs who make their coffee.

>> No.9262047

>>9262019

>Liberals are for capitalism and minor social reforms

So when I say that liberals outnumber conservatives 5 to 1 on college campuses do you think that number 5 is referring to the sort of people that support free market capitalism? I'm using the language of the time and "liberal" refers to people who support left leaning politics relative to the United States.

>> No.9262052

>>9262034
>60% of people in the US are in deep debt
>the new expected standard is to work from 40 to 60 hours, usually only to afford rent and food
>expect these people to pop 3 to 4 kids, while still mantaining the standard of their lives

There's a reason for which poor people outbreed smart people, and that reason is ambition. What you're asking for is completely uncompatible with current society, unless you're ok with either being miserable for the resto f your life or simply not care after those kids.

>> No.9262067

>>9262041
I'm a ditch digger at a construction company.

If you people knew how the poors see themselves, and see you, you'd stage a full-scale fucking culling.

They talk about you like you're the unnecessary dregs who make their lives miserable.

>> No.9262072

>>9262067
They're right.

>> No.9262077

>>9262067
Well, they're not wrong.

>> No.9262078

>>9262067
They're right in 99% of the cases

>> No.9262091

>>9262072
>>9262077
>>9262078

t. I work in the academia, they wouldn't hurt little old me, they need me

>> No.9262110

Ivy Leagues have always been a luxury good, and they only attract attention because of that. People confuse the fact that they have good research and publications with the fact that they are terrible institutions of education.

The rich and the visible minorities go there, and either pay themselves or attract further government funding. They get a piss education that gets praised as genius due to the institution's name, while the good parts of the university gets funded.

>> No.9262116

>>9262091
>t. I work in the academia, they wouldn't hurt little old me, they need me

This argument makes sense only in hyper-capitalist countries in Asia.
In most of Europe education is free, if not retributed, and in the US only a fraction of academics can come out of college without being in deep debt.
I'd say that most academics nowadays are poor, therefore there is no reason to think that they would be killed in a revolution.

>> No.9262122

there's still a functional education system under the sports teams, student loans, and liberal arts departments, right? we could just chip away the excess, salt the leeches, and it would downsize back to its original scope

or would the actual functional parts of the university be damaged during the operation, given that there's been enough time to entwine them into the profiteering aspects of upper education? i feel like they could hold the legitimate parts hostage with the football rapists and tenured genderqueer studies professors

"ALL OR NOTHING!" the leeches would say. "we built a very flimsy jenga tower. one false move and it all crashes down. if you like your scientific advances, you better keep those loans coming!"

>> No.9262128
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9262128

>>9262041

Undergraduate here, it's true.

>> No.9262149
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9262149

>>9262041
>>9262067
Well alright then

>> No.9262150

>>9262116
>education is free

Seriously, spend a day at a construction site. These ogres want kill anyone with glasses. If they perceive a sleight, they would blast your face. They hate the state, they hate the politicians, they hate their wives, kids, jobs, taxes, cars, other workers, boss, themselves,...

>> No.9262155

>>9261776
fuck capitalism, immigration, and the 'asian upper class'

all cancer

>> No.9262162

>>9262150
They do love heroin and fireball though

>> No.9262176

>>9262047
In the American context, "liberal" refers to someone who leans Democrat, a party that obviously supports capitalism. Are you retarded?

>> No.9262177

>>9262122
>liberal arts
All liberal arts is, is interdisciplinary education.

A physics major at any institution taking an English minor is technically engaged in an interdisciplinary education, and hence is engaged in liberal arts.

Sports teams, however, are awful things. I've yet to meet an athlete that has come to my university by academic merit. They are about 1/5th of the population here and flood the classrooms with their shit.
>>9262155
The nouveau riche in general are just awful. The AUC, to make things worse, don't even try to speak English, so they either slow down lectures through stupid questions, or through their chattering. They also love to rev their stupid cars at night.

I thought renting a place walking distance from my campus would be nice, but instead I have annoying brats drinking, smoking weed, and driving.

>> No.9262199

>>9262162

I think that a love for narcotics transcends the class divide though.

>> No.9262212

>University in the age of the internet

Kek, brainlets

>> No.9262219

>>9262212
BTFO

>> No.9262245

>>9262177
i guess i meant the microcosms under the 'liberal arts' umbrella, where the ultimate goal of your education at the university is to teach the same discipline at the university. the department's creation was artificial and only brought about by saying " we SHOULD have this."

i think it's the same with most sports. there's money / virtue to be had so everyone needs a basketball team for some reason, even if they had to invent one (and a mascot to match) in the late 70s or something. there was no precedence for it. it's purely a money-making venture

>> No.9262246

>>9262091
>they need me
Pfft the leftist traitors who are ok with flooding their countries with nonwhites will be the first

>> No.9262252

>implying that it is common for people to have the discipline required to become a physicist without the aid of institutions and peer pressuring

It may work if you're an actual genius, but you're probably not (if you were one chances are that free education opportunity would be available to you).

>> No.9262254

>>9261776

That's totally correct.

If you want an education, read all of the books.

>> No.9262262

>>9262219
DUDE, GET TAUGHT BY FAGGY ACADEMICS INSTEAD OF STUDYING THE MASTERS YOURSELF ONLINE FOR FREE LMAO

Universtities have been shit since they let women, minorities, and poor people in. Now not only are these "people" allowed in, they are given preference over their supioriors! SAD. Luckily since the popularization of the Internet, University is actually inferior to this free alternative :DDDD

>> No.9262267

>>9262245
Sure, there's money in athletics. The issue is, athletes are given special privileges, a lot more funding, and so on. They take a terrible major, such as physical education/physical activity which every major I've met admits is ridiculously easy, and still get everything handed to them despite not working nearly as much as most students.

>> No.9262268

>>9262262
tone it down

>> No.9262271

>>9262177
I don't think that sports are inherently bad, (I'm a member of two club sports myself) but I do agree with you that sports team members are, generally, of a far lower caliber than the rest of the student body. In most cases, their athletic ability is the only reason why they're even able to attend school. I think that it's good for people to be involved with a sport but sports teams should not be financially supported by the university.
I'm glad that my current university doesn't have a football team.

>> No.9262285

Reminder: Universities were a creation of the bourgeois

The middle class is the worst class

>> No.9262296

>>9262271
Athletics are fine, and even good for community. The issue is, they're 1/5th of the population here. I am at a 1000-student university. Funding goes to athletics and STEM.

>> No.9262304
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9262304

>>9262041

I don't think of those sort of people much but your post reminded me of this.

>> No.9262305

>>9262285
Reminder that in Europe this paradigm has been overcome, and that this argument is made only by people living in that dystopic nightmare that is the US.

>> No.9262311

>>9262305

Are you joshing me?

>> No.9262313

>>9262305
How has it been overcome in Europe? Genuinely curious

>> No.9262316

>>9262212
>not going to uni just to fuck, party and prolong your joyful unemployment
i bet you are a Burger too

>> No.9262321

>>9262313
muh democratic socialism and 'free' university

>> No.9262332

>>9262313

Its been overcome because Europe is already dead and had given up without a fight in a Post-WW2 world, while US is only just reaching critical mass on its identity crisis.

>> No.9262335

>>9262304
Any more of this?

>> No.9262338

>>9261776
He points to comparative literature and gender studies at a problem, but what about the 10000% increase in college administrators?

Tuition fees combined with an inability to default on your student debt essentially makes America a serfdom for young people.

>> No.9262339

>>9262313
University is free, enrolling is easy (you don't have to be a genius, nor a good student if that matters) and in lots of countries if you can't afford studying full time the government will pay for your basic expenses (in Northern Europe they will actually give you a decent wage).

There is no economic barrier for education.

>>9262321
University is not that much of a burden, I pay something like 20$/year and what I get in return is an institution that works properly and that enriches immensely the society I live in.
Don't act like it's a oppressive system.

>> No.9262340

>>9261983
Is pretty weird to find decent profs.
Going autodidact is aesthetically superior too.

>> No.9262342

>>9262339
>University is free, enrolling is easy (you don't have to be a genius, nor a good student if that matters)

screamed

>> No.9262343

>>9262316
>implying I like to "party" (I cringe everytime sombody uses that phrase)
>Implying I dont just fuck girls off tinder
>Implying unemployment is joyful

>> No.9262350

>>9262339
>free
No, it's paid by taxes. You pay taxes. It's cheaper at most, not free.

>> No.9262356

>>9262041
Where do I sign?

>> No.9262361
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9262361

>>9262339
>University is free, enrolling is easy (you don't have to be a genius, nor a good student if that matters) and in lots of countries if you can't afford studying full time the government will pay for your basic expenses (in Northern Europe they will actually give you a decent wage).
>There is no economic barrier for education.

That makes it worse, not better. Brainlet. "Free" education is trash. Lower classes dont gain anything from it because they are nitwits, upper classes can afford better. Only midwit, middle class scum support it.

When will the lower and upper classes join together to vanquish the vile bourgeois?

If Europe is so educated, why dont they know that bringing in millions of Islamic low IQ migrants is giong to be a disaster? Right.

>> No.9262370

>>9262343
you sound like a loser that slayed literally zero pussy in his entire, tragic life

>> No.9262383

>>9262370
>say I fuck tinder girls
>replies with HEH VIRGIN LMAO

Reading comprehension my man

Also
>slayed pussy
cringed irl

>> No.9262388

>>9262339

The problem is you end up with state sponsored educations that are indoctrinating as hell. Now you have a bipolar masochist of a continent that preaches tolerance for getting shit on by foreigners who hate their culture while goosestepping down peoples blocks with """"antifascist"""" slogans trying to fight anyone who doesn't revel in the destruction of their culture.

>> No.9262398

literally fuck everything this thread makes me want to go full mass shooter

>> No.9262400

>>9262350
Which, as I've already stated, is not a burden: the pros vastly outweigh the cons.
What would you prefer, were you in my situation? Owning 20$ more while living in a oligarchic state in which only the wealthy elite can go to university, or would you rather have an all inclusive education system that still doesn't hinder your existence?

That said, in Europe universities are far more common than colleges, so they're easier to mantain (they're usually in historic buildings, exempted from taxes), and most of the problems I see associated with US colleges are simply unkown here (bureaucracy, the top getting mad bonuses, having to pay for stadiums and sport teams).

>>9262361
>Lower classes dont gain anything from it because they are nitwits, upper classes can afford better. Only midwit, middle class scum support it.
We still need architects to make projects for fire escapes. You're making a pretty speculative implication, which is that if a job requires a physic degree the guy who have to do it have to be a genius. It's not, there are tons of menial, dull jobs that still requires higher education.

With your logic we would have something like 50 working labs in Europe.

>>9262388
>Now you have a bipolar masochist of a continent that preaches tolerance for getting shit on by foreigners who hate their culture while goosestepping down peoples blocks with """"antifascist"""" slogans trying to fight anyone who doesn't revel in the destruction of their culture
Stop equating dumb feminists you've seen on FB with academia at large.

>> No.9262415

>>9262398
The only reason to go to University is to shoot it up.

>> No.9262419

>>9262400
I don't live in the US, I live in Canada.

>> No.9262422

>>9261776
does this explain the glut of Chinese kids at Harvard?

>> No.9262426

>>9262383
>I fuck tinder girls
you are lying and we both know it

>> No.9262434

>>9262400
>We still need architects to make projects for fire escapes.

No. We dont.

Thats the problem with the world, everything is mediocre because midwit middle class people design and build it.

Only upper class people should have "academic" education.

>> No.9262438

>>9262422
Absolutely. Wealthy Asians, not just Chinese, go to a foreign country to get away from their generally strict culture. When they return, they have a 'luxury' and 'exotic' education.

>> No.9262442

>>9262426
>"I can read minds over the internet, im totally not projecting"

Woah dude

>> No.9262448

>>9262434
>Thats the problem with the world, everything is mediocre because midwit middle class people design and build it.

Blame the people who creates those jobs, not the people who take them. Do you really think that architects have any sort of artistic freedom when they have to design a fire escape for a house in the projects?
No, the only criteria for that fire escape is how much does it cost and how much can we save and wether that fire escape is legal or not. The architect has no blame in that. That's the system he lives in, not the system he's creating.

>> No.9262469

>>9262448
Im not saying its the middle class's fault, its the failure of the aristocracy that they exist in the first place.

They are still scum though.

>> No.9262475

>>9262469
>They are still scum though.

Although they're not enriching the world they're still making it safe. Why can't you respect that?
Also stop thinking that there is any sort of aristocracy, and that wealth is directly linked to virtues. We don't live in a virtue ethics-based society, these idealistic arguments find no place in the real world.

>> No.9262516

>>9262475
>making it safe.
>implying thats a good thing
I dont fear fire, I fear the rotting of culture. I'd prefer it the opposite way.
>>9262475
>wealth is directly linked to virtues

It use to be, thats the point. Nowadays, Mark Cuckersperg gets 30 billion by making his retarded products that apeal to subhumans, of course Mr. Cuckersperg is a genius but what kind of genius? His genius is in producing software with mass apeal, thats it.

You can see the decline just by looking at these people. The richest of today look like fags, and dress plainly. The richest of yesterday were masculine and dressed regally. As the quality of overall culture declined, so did the quality of the people who most profited from it.

tldr: The rich of our society have no virtue because our society has no virtue.

>> No.9262517

>>9262285
this thread = upper-middle eating the bourgeoisie eating the petite bourgeoisie

if you don't regularly fly on private jets you are not upper class, mass marketed handbags and designer watches, even caring about ivy degrees, are staples of the middle of the middle of the middle of the middle class

likewise if you don't experience hunger pangs daily, and never worry about where your next meal is coming from you are not lower class

>> No.9262543 [DELETED] 
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9262543

>>9262517
>thinking that by "upper class" I mean those of the current economic system

My ancestors were all nobility and aristocrats, their wealth was stolen by the lowe rclasses in Russia. The same happened everywhere else, usually not in as dramatic fashion as what happened in Russia...

Today we still live in the after effects of that slave revolt, which is why the "upper class" of today are mostly weak faggots.

Soon this pathetic excuse for a society will collapse and we (the genuine aristocracy) shall be back.

>> No.9262555

>>9262041
who are "you"
there are poor people at ivies

>> No.9262568
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9262568

I'd rather have Louie V than a PhD tbqh

Universal education was a mistake

>> No.9262577

>>9261983
>What they don't consider is that the best way to learn something is with a teacher, directly interacting with what is being presented in the presence of someone who knows what you're talking about. This is infinitely valuable, and absolutely irreplaceable.

False. Many subjects can be self taught perfectly well. You brats just want someone else to do half the work for you. The truth is that you'll rarely see your professors to begin with. They're the laziest people in the world and shirk teaching as much as possible.

>> No.9262582
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9262582

>>9262516
>>9262469
>>9262434

>> No.9262585

Test

>> No.9262594

>>9261798
It's so fucking hard. For example reading a book per day and writing a 10 pages paper per week for 2 years...

>> No.9262596

>>9262568
burn humanism burn

>> No.9262599

>>9261983
Yeah, my biggest regret after completing university was that I didn't go to the profs more

>> No.9262604

>>9262007

Do you also admit that black people have lower IQs? Or do you only selective use IQ when it fits your narrative?

>> No.9262609
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9262609

>>9262582
>everybody I dont like is ugly!
heh, nice try kid

>> No.9262632

>>9262361
No, you're looking at it all wrong. Firstly, Free education is demonstrably not trash given the efficacy of our public education system. But, what is wrong is the emphasis of University over other forms of post secondary education

>> No.9262647

>>9262007

Than religious conservatives, yes. But free-market libertarians have higher IQs than liberals

>> No.9262656

>>9262177
>The nouveau riche in general are just awful.
this
'social mobility' is an evil, not a good. especially when its based on wealth. France's estate system had it figured out. Only way up was through the clergy.

>> No.9262669

>>9262632
>efficacy of our public education system
???

r u rlly dis dumb

Most "people" today are historically, economically, and artistically illiterate domesticated wiggers. Schools suck in general but were better before

>> No.9262671

>>9262041
this is 100% true
the 'sympathetic' ones treat the poor/dumb as objects in some greater personal project. they 'exploit' them to increase their own social standing.

>> No.9262682

>>9262110
>They get a piss education that gets praised as genius due to the institution's name
hahahahaha what shit uni did you go to mate?
>inb4 community college

>> No.9262693

for most of history, the appeal of college was that it gave you access to knowledge that the common man could not have

but now in the modern age, where even the lowliest of laborers can find almost any knowledge online or in books, colleges have to change their appeal. so now they claim that college is not about knowledge but teaching you about "how to think"

you can spend all day plunging the depths of philosophy and science at your library on your days off from working at mcdonalds, but if you don't have a 4 year degree from a college institution you will never be considered part of the "educated" class. what a joke.

>> No.9262709

>>9262669
>were better before
I don't know if that's exactly true. Sure school may pump out a lot of stupid people, but what can you do.

>> No.9262724

>>9261814
Taleb doesn't think highly of rationalism. I wonder if he is aware that he is being appropriated by 'the alt right'. I saw Spencer retweet him as well.
Not sure what to think of it. I like the man.

>> No.9262732

>>9262338
>10000% increase in college administrators?
probably the number one problem in universities today

admissions committee ruins the student body
'diversity officers' ruin the tuition and fees

just think, your tax dollars and tuition dollars are probably going to fund a campus center for ""undocumented"" students.

>> No.9262763

>>9262577
>False. Many subjects can be self taught perfectly well.
literally only STEM, which also happens to be useless as an instrument of human flourishing

>> No.9262766

>>9262647
All of them are stupid. IQ is a nonmetric.
>>9262682
>community college
No. Stop being so butthurt, factory-school cuck.

>> No.9262772

>>9262599
Lmfaoooo this. Glad I got another shot it.

>> No.9262777

>>9262007

The two groups with the highest IQs - Marxist academics and neo-reactionaries - are fighting it out for the future of the West. Everyone else are just pawns in their battle.

>> No.9262794

>>9262763
Why can't humanities be self taught?

>> No.9262809 [DELETED] 

>>9262777
>Marxist academics

pffffttthhahahahaah

>> No.9262816

>>9262794
>unguided, aimless reading and studying

>> No.9262817

>>9262041

Two questions: aren't a lot of people at Ivy League people with modest incomes, who got there by scholarships?

And I'm assuming that most of these Ivy Leaguers see themselves as left-wing, correct? So why would they talk about the lower classes poorly?

>> No.9262828

>>9262816
Why can't one set his own aim?

Mentors I see as valuable, but Im not sure if university is the best way to go for mentorship.

>> No.9262838

>>9262817
>And I'm assuming that most of these Ivy Leaguers see themselves as left-wing, correct?

When I tried to explain to a room full of critical theory graduate students and self-avowed Marxists that "Trump vs. Hillary" is only the surface of a really messed-up and cynical political and economic structure, they all freaked out.

>> No.9262839

>>9262817
>aren't a lot of people at Ivy League people with modest incomes, who got there by scholarships?

Most of them are filthy rich.

>And I'm assuming that most of these Ivy Leaguers see themselves as left-wing, correct? So why would they talk about the lower classes poorly?
Only in the certain humanities fields. Most of them are center-right, finding themselves entangled in the DNC vs GOP feud.
They're all pro-capitalism and, at best, they are ''kinda'' socially progressive (they're progressive until the subject becomes weird)
I guess that compared to /pol/ they're all filthy commies, since they're usually not racial realist, social darwinist nazis.

>> No.9262846

>>9262794
I personally think it is relatively easy. If you don't study psychology you can avoid Freud and other pseudoscience which is still taught in schools and go straight to scientific consensus.

Big Five personality test, cognitive biases, a bit evolutionary psychology, a bit neuroscience and you can get pretty knowledgeable on at least psychology.

You can also learn to avoid the bad studies that show in the news. You know the ones with some correlation between kinds of peoples that doesn't add anything of value to our understanding of the human psyche.

>> No.9262857

>>9262817
The left hates the lower class, they see them as inferior. They have no respect for them whatsoever.

The only ones with a 'modest' income are still upper-middle class or a minority.
>>9262846
>scientific consensus
Fuck off STEMsperg.

>> No.9262860

>>9262846
>Big Five personality test, cognitive biases, a bit evolutionary psychology, a bit neuroscience and you can get pretty knowledgeable on at least psychology.
Most of that is useless though

Why should psychology be just scientific? Seems extremely autistic

>> No.9262866

>>9262828
>Why can't one set his own aim?

Because you're still too clueless to know how to set your own aims. You haven't studied it yet, so how can you know how to organize your study plan, and how can you know that what you're doing actually makes sense?

>> No.9262881

>>9262866
But what if, and this may sound like a joke but bear with me, you LEARN how to set aims properly?

Learning how to set and meet goals is something one must learn.

>> No.9262888

>>9262857
>Fuck off STEMsperg.
Suffocate in your words.
>>9262860
>Most of that is useless though
Why is that useless? There some other stuff I didn't mention that can be more useful.
>>9262860
>Why should psychology be just scientific? Seems extremely autistic
Psychology is the study of the mind, surely it should be scientific. I am not sure what you are at.

>> No.9262913

Can someone tell me what constitutes upper middle class in the US? How much would I have to be earning to be considered a member of that bracket?

>> No.9262944

>>9262888
Study of the brain should be scientific, the mind is not in "reality" and therefor is not bound by the scientific rules of that reality.

>> No.9262977

>>9262944
Something useful that psychology taught me is that people rarely change their view, so I am not going to argue with you.
But I do want to ask you, as I am curious, do you think neuroscience is only valid or do are you arguing about the soul?

>> No.9263028

>>9262881
How would you learn your aim when studying math?
And more importantly, how can you avoid misinterpretations? There is no one there to keep you in check when studying alone.
What will you do? Rely on random forums, hoping that those people you know nothing about are smarter and more knowledgeable than the guys who teach in universities?

I think that what you've got in mind is something that can be done in fields that are still in their infancy. In modern fields, both in the humanities and the STEM departments, education is structured in a different way. You get immediatly powerful tools of analysis (think about you learn calculus: every single tool you use is worth thousands of PhD researches, you obviously don't kno whwat you're doing most of the times), the further you go in your educational study the more you deconstruct those tools, and the more you deconstruct them the more you can abstract what is already know to find something new. This process does not apply when you study by yourself.
What you want to do is okay if you're planning to derive by yourself all math, but that will take a lifetime and you won't go very far for sure. For sure it's the most ineffective way.

>> No.9263035

>>9262015
Liberals have higher IQs because liberalism is the default mainstream ideology of the middling and ruling classes. Every engineer, doctor, lawyer, programmer, etc. who doesn't have to bother thinking deeply about philosophical questions is a liberal by default. It has nothing to do with the truth or the sophistication of liberalism itself. The governing ideology, whatever it is, will always be the one with the largest number of smart people subscribing to it, whether it's Marxism-Leninism in the Soviet Union, reactionary monarchism in restoration France or liberal capitalism in 21st century America.

>> No.9263043

>>9263035
But most people are not liberal. Hell, Donald Trump is our president, and in most cases elections end with a 55/45 result.
Half of the country is republican. That half is mostly stupid.

>> No.9263063

>>9263028
>What you want to do is okay if you're planning to derive by yourself all math, but that will take a lifetime and you won't go very far for sure. For sure it's the most ineffective way.

This. Also self-studying means that, most of the time, you don't know if you're doing something new or if you're just parroting somethign that a 13th century monk was scribbling in his free time.

>> No.9263069

>>9262067
This isn't true. As an actual laborer I can say most people don't care enough about anything to get angry like that.

>> No.9263072

>>9263063
This is basically Sam Harris.
He teaches himself philosophy, makes up his own philosophy and fails to realize costantly that it's just a badly assembled summary of philsophical schools of thought that are hundreds years old (also without realizing that he is picking their worst arguments, the easier ones to debunk).

>> No.9263089

Even the argument of direct interaction with a teacher will soon be obsolete, it's just a logistical question that can easily be solved through online lecturing

>> No.9263093

>>9263063
>>9263072
Well, this isn't an argument for the University as a place of education. It works as an argument for the University as a place where scholars interact and study

>> No.9263094

>>9262977
I think that the wide majority of psychological "problems" are best solved through means other than science

>>9263028
We were specifically talking about non-STEM stuff....

>> No.9263099

>>9263093
>place where scholars interact and study
Which is everything that matters in education.

>> No.9263102

>>9263043

He didn't win the popular vote. But your conclusion is banal anyway. The reactionaries make use of religious white Republicans, just like the marxists make use of inner city non-white Democrats. The majority of each base has no idea what is really going on.

>> No.9263112

>>9263099
No, in applied sciences or centers of study. But it'll soon be irrelevant WHERE these people are, by virtue of the internet.
That doesn't mean that education will be free, in fact it'll probably be even more stratified, but the University AS A PLACE will become less relevant

>> No.9263113

>>9263094
Most of that still applies.
Read these >>9263063 >>9263072 , these are all risks in self-studying the humanities.
That doesn't mean that you can't understand Kant without going to university: that, instead, means that probably nothing of value will come out of your understanding, since you're too detatched from what has been the philosophical discourse that has already gone on for centuries.

>> No.9263125

>>9263112
You clearly have no idea about how STEM subjects are studied in university. Have you got any idea how hard are most of the concepts you will approach, and how easy are they to misunderstand?
How far do you think you can go in your education? To a Bs level? Maybe.
To a PhD level? Without guidance? Maybe, if you're a actual prodigy.

If you're not a prodigy what you're doing is becoming an amateur in the field. Nothing more. You're free to do that, but don't pretend that that does even compete with a actual academic education

>> No.9263131

>>9261983

My university has released several official statements condemning Trump. Here's a gem:

>We must recognize the deep rooted racism in our nation that is reflected in its institutional structures, or else the beast of racism will consume us all

>We live in a nation that supports structural inequalities of race in ways big and small. Even as we boast of an ethnically diverse Senate – which we are rightfully proud of -, we also must confront the fact that our prison population is growing fast with people of colour as the largest number of inmates in our prisons. For example, black Canadians make up 2.9% of the Canadian population but 10% of the prison population. Between 2005 and 2015, the black population of federal prisons increased by 69%. In the same time period, the Aboriginal population grew by over 50%. This means that people of colour are institutionally discriminated against and criminalized in Canada.

No you idiot, it means that blacks commit crimes more often.

>> No.9263137

>>9263131
>liberals are stupid!

Yet to you everything is either white or black. Do you really think that
>No you idiot, it means that blacks commit crimes more often
is where the debate ends?

>> No.9263142

>>9263113
>nothing of value will come out of your understanding, since you're too detatched from what has been the philosophical discourse that has already gone on for centuries.
You don't need to add to a field of knowledge for it to be of value for you

And this presupposes that the learner WANTS to add to the philosophical discourse of the last few centuries

As far as Sam Harris goes, I think he's a dumb meme but he makes a lot of money doing something he loves which is more than most university grads get.

>> No.9263148

>>9263113
>since you're too detatched from what has been the philosophical discourse that has already gone on for centuries.

Why? Your arguments will still enter the public sphere where they will be (that is, if they're interesting enough) scrutinized and interacted with, which is likely to lead to the same results. There is little difference between a body of knowledge being held by academia or a wider sphere

>>9263125
But what's stopping you from getting tutoring, taking advantage of private education services (provided by people with superior knowledge to yours in the field you're interested in) and so on? It seems like a general technical and logistical problem to me, not one that will appear, unsolvably, once the University as a place is gone.

>> No.9263154

>>9263094
>I think that the wide majority of psychological "problems"
Which are?
>are best solved through means other than science
Which is?

I just find psychology interesting I never saw it as solving problems. Heck, I am fine with most people having lore, religion etc. to deal with life's problems.

I actually don't think that people can be changed all that much, and psychology sort of confirms that. I know that some psychologists, such as political psychologist Jonathan Haidt think otherwise. He thinks psychology can helps to deal with politics. I disagree.

You also have the internet subculture LessWrong thinking similarly. They think humans can overcome their psychology and become more rational.Again I disagree. Up to a point I might agree.

>> No.9263161 [DELETED] 

>>9263131
And why are they comitting more crimes. The obvious answer is they are oppressed, no other reason could possibly exist. This is not just a reflection of my.ideology!

>> No.9263169 [DELETED] 

>>9263131
>This means that people of colour are institutionally discriminated against and criminalized in Canada.

Why is that the conclusion? What if they just commit more crimes? Do they even consider that idea?

>> No.9263176 [DELETED] 

>>9263169
This would likely be answered by the same conclusion, racism and systematic discrimination/implicit bias etc.

>> No.9263182

>>9261776
>muh only STEM autistic drone bee producing programs

Fuck off capitalist scum, you're the reason universities are so shit

>> No.9263184

>>9263176
>>9263169
Basically they all operate on the assumption that the races are equal, so any disparity MUST be the result of oppression.

And they assume that oppression is bad

Politcally correct people are brainlets

>> No.9263186

>>9263137

Yes?

I've yet to see a convincing argument for the black incarceration rate that didn't involve "the system is racist and keeping the black man down." It's like they think that stealing cars and selling drugs are minor infractions that bigoted white male judges blow out of all proportion.

>> No.9263187

>>9263148
>Why? Your arguments will still enter the public sphere where they will be (that is, if they're interesting enough) scrutinized and interacted with, which is likely to lead to the same results. There is little difference between a body of knowledge being held by academia or a wider sphere

Chances are that your arguments are centuries years old and that your same exact arguments have already been scrutinized, if not even debunked.

>There is little difference between a body of knowledge being held by academia or a wider sphere
The academia is aware of what has already been said.

>taking advantage of private education services
That there is no one willing to follow your PhD dissertation on the internet, and if there are such people chances are that it will costs maybe as much as attending an actual university. Also depending on the field you've chosen, chances are that doing such a thing is virtually impossible. All the chemistry that can be derived with pen and paper has already been done, at this point to do anything of value you need an actual lab.
In the humanities these problems do not apply, but at the same time you know for a fact that whatever PhD dissertation you want to write, you need someone who has a encyclopedic knowledge of the subject to tell you if what you're saying has already been said, or wether you are misinterpreting what you're reading. There is a limited amount of these people in the world, and I doubt that society at large will find enough of them to actually do this.

>>9263142
>You don't need to add to a field of knowledge for it to be of value for you
Which is not what academia is for.

>And this presupposes that the learner WANTS to add to the philosophical discourse of the last few centuries
This is what academia is for.

>I think he's a dumb meme but he makes a lot of money doing something he loves which is more than most university grads get.
These are words that i never use but HEDONISTIC UNAMBITIOUS NORMIES GTFO

>> No.9263192

>>9263182
I don't think Nassim Taleb is a STEM autistic drone, he is just very blunt

>> No.9263195

>>9263186
Yeah, I guess that stealing cars and doing drugs is just encoded in their DNA and that this is where the analysis of this problem ends. I'm sure that there is no systemic factor involved in the behaviour of these communities.

You fucking idiot.

>> No.9263199

>>9261983

The reason why people say that universities are too leftist - and its true - is because most thought in university circles is that egalitarianism is a given. To them it is an axiom, and that all the world must be viewed through that lens, and all the evidence has to be contorted to fit their conclusion. It is a decidedly un-scientific way of looking at the world, and yet its so pervasive in university thought that they don't even think too question it.

>> No.9263209 [DELETED] 

>>9263195

He never said that was where the analysis would end you moron, he just meant that maybe systemic factors are not solely responsible. How typical of you to twist an argument like that.

>> No.9263212 [DELETED] 

>>9263195

It's part of their culture. Just like how natives drink too much: it's not genetic, that's all been debunked years ago.

>> No.9263227

>>9263192
Taleb himself may not be but the idea that anything which isn't oriented towards the job market shouldn't be taught or learned (i.e., that which doesn't make most students into autistic STEM drones) is bullshit. Anyone that's triggered by literature should just shut up about it.

>> No.9263239 [DELETED] 
File: 851 KB, 2970x2400, 1489893709844.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9263239

ALL RACES AND SEXES ARE EQUAL

DOWN WITH WHITE MALES

>> No.9263241

>>9263195
You cannot speak reason to /pol/rats, /lit/anon. They don't care about criticizing the conditions that makes their own lives, never mind the others, so poor. The conclusion bears too much responsibility, or at least an intellectual honesty that stings.

>> No.9263244

>>9263209
>He never said that was where the analysis would end you moron

He said
>No you idiot, it means that blacks commit crimes more often.
which is basically saying that the problem doesn't go deeper than that, which, apparently, everyone with an actual education knows that this is not the case.

>he just meant that maybe systemic factors are not solely responsible.
He has not attributed ANY relevance to the systemic factors.

>How typical of you to twist an argument like that.
You're the one that twisted my response here.

>>9263212
>It's part of their culture
So, that's it? You really think that you've solved it? Now tell me, on what basis are you saying this?

>>9263239
Reminder that most racial realists on 4chan are educated by infographics.

>> No.9263251
File: 1.34 MB, 295x255, 1463619970927.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9263251

>>9263199
>universities are too leftist - and its true

>> No.9263257

>>9263187
>Chances are that your arguments are centuries years old and that your same exact arguments have already been scrutinized, if not even debunked.

You're right, in the academic context this is true. There might be a positive to positions being re-iterated and re-entering into PUBLIC discourse though, which is what I was trying to say.

>The academia is aware of what has already been said.

I also tried to address it with the second point. A network of scholars is aware of what has already been said, and what's already been said is contained in literature anyways. It seems to me that there is no reason to assume that this network is entirely dependent on the university as a physical institution. Again, I might be repeating myself, but the internet holds the key to solving almost all of these problems.

>3rd
It doesn't seem to me like the formal degree structure that Universities use is intrinsically valuable. If all they do is signify that you've attained a certain status within your field or amassed a certain amount of knowledge/produced a certain amount of literature, then there's no need for a formal frame of this kind, you'll have done those things anways. Plato didn't have a PhD

I'm aware that I'm stabbing in the dark here, and very optimistically too. But from my experience (I work in the history faculty of my Uni) there is very little discernable purpose to all of it anymore

>> No.9263259

>>9263227

But a lot of university programs don't even make you more knowledgeable or educated.

Not only is a gender studies degree worthless on your resume, it doesn't teach you anything about the world, or the human condition, or any of the big questions that have been investigated over the course of history.

It qualifies you to post trigger warnings on tumblr.

>> No.9263261

>>9263199
>It is a decidedly un-scientific way of looking at the world
Spook spotted.

Explain how science can tell us anything about political and moral philosophy.

>> No.9263269 [DELETED] 

>>9263212
>he thinks culture and genetics are separate

>>9263187
Ok I think I see the point of disagreement. Ideally University would be for exceptionally intelligent people pursuing knowledge and the expansion of their various fields. In that case, it would be superior to self study unless the self-studier is an absolute genius.

BUT, that is not what our current university system is.

In our current system, I believe one would be best served self-studying when it comes to the field of humanities.

>> No.9263271

>>9263199
>is that egalitarianism is a given

Define egalitarianism
>inb4 search it for yourself
I'm asking because I'm 100% sure that your notion of egalitarianism comes from shit you've seen linked on 4chan. In that case it's nothing more than a buzzword.

>>9263261
>muh fMRI

>> No.9263280

>>9261776

I think a big aspect of uni people ITT are ignoring is the constant social interaction with peers.

"just be an autodidact, there's internet nowadays" is a meme. You will end up a sad and lonely NEET - assuming you are indeed to learn what is taught in uni to a competent level, which is doubtful as it requires great discipline, you still lack that which makes uni worth it. Networking. Social interaction.

It's well known today that the most important necessary quality for success is emotional intelligence, is the ability to interact with peers and convince them of your arguments, your ability to influence others. You will simply not gain this knowledge reading books and browsing wikipedia in your cozy NEETdom.

Networking is also very important. It's often the only reason people go to college. Alumni networks, professors, classmates - just being able to know all these people allows you opportunities you wouldn't otherwise have. The world is not a meritocracy, and will never become one.

>> No.9263293

>>9263269
>In our current system, I believe one would be best served self-studying when it comes to the field of humanities.

I don't think so, and I've explained extensively why I think so.

>BUT, that is not what our current university system is.
Our current system is in place to teach you efficiently and critically these subjects. You're study plan is not efficient, and you have not organized it critically, since you haven't studied these subjects yet.
Also, as I've said earlier, you have no way to know if you're misunderstanding something, and the source that you can find online are lacking at best.

You're concept of self-studying is okay if you want to treat it as a hobby: if you strive for anything more university is the way (unless, again, you're a prodigy).

>> No.9263299

>>9263259
>A [subject] degree is worthless.

Again, fuck off capitalist scum. The university is NOT and should NEVER be an employment training camp.

And I realize that in the mystical land of 4chan "gender studies" is a high-tier trigger term and carries with it thought-terminating cliches but gender studies have in fact produced material that "teaches [us] about the world" and informs us on "big questions that have been investigated over the course of history". The Tumblr boogeyman has nothing to do with gender studies; the stereotype you're referring to is just populist liberal identity politics, the equal opposite to the people that oppose the very idea of gender studies.

>> No.9263309

>>9263293
Lol, humanities on modern university are anything but "critical"

>Our current system is in place to teach you efficiently and critically these subjects
You think so?

>> No.9263317 [DELETED] 
File: 22 KB, 600x450, anton sterling.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9263317

>>9263244

Canada has a welfare system, public education, public healthcare, social housing, affirmative action, and a fairly strong economy, and yet blacks still turn to crime at a depressing rate.

Rap and hip-hop, their biggest cultural product, glorifies crime: particularly drug trafficking, assault, and prostitution.

Blacks continually exhibit a distrust towards authority (Fuck the police!) and traditional means of advancement (i.e. hard work and academics). Students who try to hard are accused of "acting white" or being "uncle toms." It's seen a more honorable to live by your wits "on the streets" then get a job and save money.

>exhibit A: the slain martyr Anton Sterling being a "good role model" for his children.

>> No.9263318

>>9263309
>Lol, humanities on modern university are anything but "critical"
How could you know? You obviously don't know anything about these fields of study, at best you've just munched some propaganda you've found on youtube and 4chan.

>You think so?
I've already explained in what way this is true: you don't know what has already been said, and you don't know if you're misinterpreting what you're reading.

>> No.9263322

>>9262339
No because
>Edgy Leftypol Autistic screeching
>Edgy Ancap Autistic screeching

>> No.9263323

>>9263241

Your smug tone is noted and not appreciated. It's clear that the idea that genetics could play a role in behavior is very uncomfortable for you, and something you are not willing to consider. You do not have the intellectual honesty to admit that.

>> No.9263328

>>9263299

>gender studies have in fact produced material that "teaches [us] about the world" and informs us on "big questions that have been investigated over the course of history".

Such as?

>> No.9263337

>>9263261

Why do men outnumber women in STEM?

In modern university thinking, its because of male oppression and our culture that celebrates men and pushes them to more advanced fields. If they believe this then the logical conclusion would be to drastically change our politics and culture until the numbers are more equal.

But science might be able to tell us that men and women are not the same, and may think differently, and may have different strengths in different areas in intelligence, and this is the reason why gaps in achievement may exist between men and women. But this is something that much of academia is not even willing to consider.

>> No.9263340

>>9262846
Are you sincere? This is probably the most fedora post I've ever seen. Jung is literally wicca tier of psychobabble, and yet you attack Freud and praise this shit.

Someone go back in time and throw Columbus out the window when he was a baby, Jesus Christ.

>> No.9263344

>>9263318
>How could you know?
Educated guess, Im one of the only people in my family who doesnt have at least a Masters degree, I havent personally attended college though
>I've already explained in what way this is true: you don't know what has already been said, and you don't know if you're misinterpreting what you're reading.
But how would I know if the professors are misinterpreting what Im reading?

I dont have much trust in the educators of this disgusting modern society

>> No.9263345

>>9263317
>Rap and hip-hop, their biggest cultural product, glorifies crime: particularly drug trafficking, assault, and prostitution.

>implying that rap, hip hop and drugs are not CIA psyops
>implying that black people just decided 100 years ago to live in ghettos to start a life of crack-addiction

>Blacks continually exhibit a distrust towards authority
I wonder why.

>and traditional means of advancement
>implying that white people still follow the bourgeoise value system of the 19th century
The average white dude still don't care about physics and French literature.

>Students who try to hard are accused of "acting white" or being "uncle toms." It's seen a more honorable to live by your wits "on the streets" then get a job and save money.
As a guy who actually lived in a ghetto you really don't know what the fuck are you talking about. Are you identifying the entire african american community with high school bullies? For fuck's sake

>> No.9263353

>>9263280

But it's not like most college students are hopeful philosophers. College is basically high school 2.0 where people cram for tests and talk about their weekend hookups. They're not debating philosophy over lunch.

>> No.9263356

>>9263345

Can you repeat this post but without the namefaggotry? Thanks.

>> No.9263360

>>9263344
>I havent personally attended college though

Yet you feel entitled to give judge every humanity department basing your judgement on your parents.
My brother never went to college. He's a retard. Is this enough for me to say that every person without a degree is a retard?

>But how would I know if the professors are misinterpreting what Im reading?
You can question them back, and more often than not from this confrontration something extremely constructive, if not new, will emerge.

>I dont have much trust in the educators of this disgusting modern society
Your idea of educator is completely divorced from what the real world is actually like.

>> No.9263366

>>9263356
>Rap and hip-hop, their biggest cultural product, glorifies crime: particularly drug trafficking, assault, and prostitution.

>implying that rap, hip hop and drugs are not CIA psyops
>implying that black people just decided 100 years ago to live in ghettos to start a life of crack-addiction

>Blacks continually exhibit a distrust towards authority
I wonder why.

>and traditional means of advancement
>implying that white people still follow the bourgeoise value system of the 19th century
The average white dude still don't care about physics and French literature.

>Students who try to hard are accused of "acting white" or being "uncle toms." It's seen a more honorable to live by your wits "on the streets" then get a job and save money.
As a guy who actually lived in a ghetto you really don't know what the fuck are you talking about. Are you identifying the entire african american community with high school bullies? For fuck's sake

>> No.9263368

>>9262913
Roughly 80-150,000k most of the country, 200-600k northeast
Its a weird distinction because federally 200,000+ is rich,but it doesnt take into account state tax and standard of living (northeast vs midwest)

>> No.9263369

>>9263323
>muh genes
Gene expression is turned off/on by epigenetics, meaning your environment determines/changes who you are and how your genes work. You are your environment.

>> No.9263375

>>9263353

It's true. Half the class will spend the lecture looking at their laptop/smartphone instead of paying attention.

>> No.9263379

>>9263323
>implying that you know the first thing about genetics
>implying that you're not spouting shit you've read on /pol/ infographics

>> No.9263381

The people who know the most about economics and have spent entire their adult lives studying the subject are working in academia.
The people who know the most about chemical engineering and have spent entire their adult lives studying the subject are working in academia.
The people who know the most about the philosophy of Nietzsche, the 19th century Russian novel or the political history of Canada and have spent entire their adult lives studying the subject are working in academia.

But I'm sure a 20-something NEET on 4chan has it all figured out and will learn everything from books.

>> No.9263392

>>9263381

Criticizing something is not the same as saying it's worthless. There are a lot of problems with contemporary universities, anyone with half a brain should be able to see that, but I at least don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

>> No.9263405

>>9263381

Small business owners and wall street traders know way more about economics than some dipshit professor. In general I notice that people in academia value things by their deserved value as opposed to their actual value.

>> No.9263412

I get that uni may be superior to autodidactisicm, but what the hell am I going to go there to learn humanities for? Being a middle class American it seems like a death wish.

>> No.9263415

>>9263360
>Your idea of educator is completely divorced from what the real world is actually like.
Very longwinded way of saying "ur wrong!"

>>9263360
>You can question them back, and more often than not from this confrontration something extremely constructive, if not new, will emerge.
Or they shut you up and then give you poorer grades

>> No.9263417

>>9263381
>The people who know the most about the philosophy of Nietzsche, the 19th century Russian novel or the political history of Canada and have spent entire their adult lives studying the subject are working in academia.

only this one is half true

>> No.9263421

>>9263299
Not the guy you're responding to.
>NOT and should NEVER be an employment training camp.
It's this kind of delusional thinking that is responsible for why a university education is not respected anymore. Even your gender studies majors will use university as a spring board for their career (or so they think.) And employment is a normal and essential part of life. Unless you are rich or have rich parents you need to have some kind of credentials, and if you are rich and are complaining other people use their university education to get better jobs you are exactly the type of person that has infested universities with nonsense for over 50 years. I'd rather have someone studying the fertility of soil at a university than someone like you fleecing out their bullshit philosophy of their sexual proclivities and proclaiming it as a great societal need. No one needs you.

>The Tumblr boogeyman has nothing to do with gender studies;
At this point you are just being ignorant or disingenuous, but seeing that you are defending bullshit degrees it seems to me you've been trained in employing this kind of "thinking" in your "education."

>> No.9263422

>>9263412
There are other reasons to study something, besides from wealth and power. Passion is one.

>>9263415
>Very longwinded way of saying "ur wrong!"
Well, you are.
>Or they shut you up and then give you poorer grades
See?

>> No.9263423

>>9263412

There is no reason, it's a fucking worthless degree unless you plan to teach it yourself.

>> No.9263425

>>9263421
>It's this kind of delusional thinking that is responsible for why a university education is not respected anymore.
Sure, because dead souls like you think that one can only attribute monetary value to a degree.

>At this point you are just being ignorant or disingenuous, but seeing that you are defending bullshit degrees it seems to me you've been trained in employing this kind of "thinking" in your "education."
Yeah, because you totally know what the academic discourse in gender and women's studies looks like.
Those damn neo-marxist postmodernists, am i right?

>> No.9263430

>>9263422
I have several friends and a girlfriend in university and they all confirm that humanities professors generally give you shit grades unless you agree with them

Idc what you say about this topic

>> No.9263434

>>9263422
>Passion is one
Yeah, I get that, but where the fuck am I going to go with that passion? It's not like I have the money or potential to be a professor.

>> No.9263441

>>9262763

lol all the great philosophers since 1700 were self taught. university philosophy is a fucking joke and has been for centuries. university study of 'poetry' might as well not exist

check yourself before your wreck yourself

>> No.9263442

>>9262015
Moral realism is nothing more than an I
Initiation for academics. By affirming something obviously false, they show their loyalty to the endorsed ideology institutions that house them.

Ethics does nothing but weed out undesirabled

>> No.9263444

>>9263423
But hasn't it been agreed teaching yourself is inferior to uni?

>> No.9263445

>>9263434

That's capitalism for you, where money is more important than passion.

>> No.9263457

>>9263444

uni is inferior to serious private study in almost everything except medicine and law

college is for the slaves

>> No.9263462

>>9263430
And my experience has been that, especially in private, real constructive exchanges with professors are possible (in fact I've never had experience of what you're talking about, nor has any of my friend).
Now, which anedoctal evidence is worth more?

>>9263434
>but where the fuck am I going to go with that passion?
Only you can answer this question. I agree with you, the institutions are not enough to support all the academics in our country. That said, this is related to the outside world, not to these subjects themselves.

The truth is that in this system whatever road you pick you have to find a way by yourself, since, unless you're either well connected or exceedingly brilliant, no one will help you. Blame the game, not the player.

>>9263442
>Moral realism is nothing more than an initiation for academics.
Moral realism is a common position in academia, but not the only one. If I remember correctly only half of the people in philosophy departments are moral realists. That percentage is a bit too low to believe in a sort of conspiracy that has moral realism as its epicenter.

Chances are that you are a edgy kid and that the professor you were talking to could not tolerate your stupidity.

>> No.9263463

>>9263445
shut it you absolute radiator

>> No.9263483
File: 137 KB, 899x315, yFl6yPp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9263483

>>9263445

As opposed to life before capitalism, which was a peaceful utopia.

Seriously though, without capitalism the modern university system wouldn't exist at all and nobody would be able to pursue their passion in Queer Theory.

>> No.9263489

>>9263483
Fine then, let's never criticize capitalism again.

>> No.9263496

>>9262669
>Most "people" today are historically, economically, and artistically illiterate domesticated wiggers.
Where are you getting this animosity from? I also don't see how your "historical" point adds up with the rest of your argument.

>> No.9263503

>>9263489

You haven't provided a viable alternative.

And no, the communist "worker's paradise" is not what I'm looking for.

>> No.9263512

>>9263503
>You haven't provided a viable alternative.

I don't have to. Wether I've got a solution or not, we can still see these aspects as flaws, and should be regarded as such.

>> No.9263524

>>9263496
>Where are you getting this animosity from
I saw things I strongly dislike and strongly want them changed? Idk how one answers a question like this

>>9263496
>I also don't see how your "historical" point adds up with the rest of your argument.
I mean they are "illiterate" when it comes to history.

>> No.9263540

>>9263425
I can't think of anything deader than your soul in twenty years when you realize you have neither an education nor a way of sustaining yourself with writing essays about performativity in the tranny community.
It's not about money or a career - it's about education. My point is that you and your ilk have absolutely zero ability to say, think, or analyze, and it shows even in short posts like yours where there is absolutely zero reading comprehension nor a way of building up arguments. It's all bullshit - like your degree.

>> No.9263542

>>9263462
>Moral realism is a common position in academia, but not the only one. If I remember correctly only half of the people in philosophy departments are moral realists. That percentage is a bit too low to believe in a sort of conspiracy that has moral realism as its epicenter.
I only said that because the poster had mentioned ethics. there's a number of ideas that serve a similar purpose. Gender anti-essentialism is likely the most important.

>Chances are that you are a edgy kid and that the professor you were talking to could not tolerate your stupidity.
I'd never have an argument with the initiated. They need a full-scale deprogramming before it would be worth my time. If there's anything I know, it's appropriate decorum.

>> No.9263562

>>9263542
>Gender anti-essentialism is likely the most important.
You know what are the academical arguments for gender anti-essentialism?

>They need a full-scale deprogramming before it would be worth my time.
As I've siad earlier
>Chances are that you are a edgy kid and that the professor you were talking to could not tolerate your stupidity.

>> No.9263568

>>9263512

the human design is flawed. our pelvises suck. our lumbar vertebra go bad all the time. come up with something better

>> No.9263597

>>9263562
>You know what are the academical arguments for gender anti-essentialism?
And all of them are false and grounded in shaky philosophical theories. They exist only to advance political agendas.
>As I've siad earlier
Well you've "siad" wrong. I'm smart (and I'm not very smart) enough to avoid that type of situation. I don't think I've had an unfavorable interaction with a professor.

>> No.9263599

>>9263524
My reading comprehension is fucked along with my head, right.

I mean, comparably, the whole of human society is receiving a better education than what was available a few decades ago. Maybe the general improvement of the three points you mentioned isn't as great as one would hope, but at least these are things which more people are being given access to despite their economic disposition (I'm speaking broadly here).

What more do you want from people? There isn't too much you can expect. I don't think it's so bad if the majority of people alive are only doing enough just to get through the day, as most have been doing for the whole of human history.

>inb4 untermensch

Aristotle was basically right in saying that some people are born with a slavish nature. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing.

>> No.9263611

>>9263597
>And all of them are false and grounded in shaky philosophical theories. They exist only to advance political agendas.
See? you know nothing about it.
What if I now call you a /pol/tard nazi? Would that be a good argument only because there are gender essentialists that are also nazis?
Stop thinking in stereotypes.

>Well you've "siad" wrong
Very mature.

> I'm smart (and I'm not very smart) enough to avoid that type of situation.
Eh, I hope it'll work for you, but I'm pretty sure it won't.

>> No.9263672

>>9263599
>I mean, comparably, the whole of human society is receiving a better education than what was available a few decades ago

Arguable. Peasants in the past knew how to build buildings, raise crops, cook, folklore, etc. One could argue that a strong knowledge of living off the land is a better than a weak academic education (that also has a lot of propaganda in it)

And the fact that these people are mildly educated makes them WORSE, even as far as academia goes because they infect the rest of the world with their retardism. For example, think of how much better the internet would be if the middle and lower classes were never taught to read/write? No shitty ads, less but better porn, no retarded google search results, literally everything would be higher quality online.

>>9263599
>I don't think it's so bad if the majority of people alive are only doing enough just to get through the day, as most have been doing for the whole of human history.
Except now, thanks to universalist democracy, these "people" are given political power and use it to fuck up the whole planet. If they just stayed to themselves i wouldnt care, but they suck me into their bullshit and so I will do my best to end them

>> No.9263676

When did /lit/ become /pol/ with a thesaurus?

>> No.9263681

>>9263676
When the discussion level at /pol/ plummited because of Canadians, Aussies, cuckposters, obvious shills, and qt non-white girl threads.

t. recent migrant

>> No.9263704

>>9263681
You have to go back.

>> No.9263708

>>9262047
> Liberals are for capitalism
iT'S CURRENT_YEAR

No one in the US refers to liberals in the sense of 'classical liberalism' anymore unless they explicitly say so (unfortunately)

>> No.9263716

>>9263611
>See? you know nothing about it.
>What if I now call you a /pol/tard nazi? Would that be a good argument only because there are gender essentialists that are also nazis?
>Stop thinking in stereotypes.
I know enough about it to dismiss it. If your ideas are in any way dependent on those of Butler or Foucault, they can be dismissed without consideration.
>Very mature.
Yeah, it was bad form considering I made at least one mistake in an earlier post, but whatever.
>Eh, I hope it'll work for you, but I'm pretty sure it won't.
I know that you can't go wrong affirming the consensus, and I know the consensus and the arguments used to support it. I also know the ideas that are beyond consideration in these spaces and never mention them.

>> No.9263733

>>9263381

You're right but you're just stating the facts not seeing the truth
These people don't need academia
Academia needs these people

>> No.9263741

>>9263131
>We live in a nation that supports structural inequalities of race in ways big and small.

Of course this insightful blurb would come to us from a one, Ayesha S. Chaudhry (Associate Professor of Islamic Studies and Gender Studies)

>> No.9263873

>>9263672
I agree with your elitist perspective, but you seem to be taking a "Golden Age" mentality too far.

Tradition is something that we have lost in our increasingly global community. Values and cultural practices like building homes, cooking, folklore, as you have mentioned, are all things that are no longer important to our general consensus.

What matters now is the individual and his access to institutions that will allow him to benefit himself. This idea of an elite class, proficient in history, art, economics, conflicts with the notion of individualism that we hold so dear today. It is no longer a question of excellence or greatness, but of the amount of people who are able to live a "good" life. Equality over Freedom. All of which is absolutely a symptom of the current democratic regime like you said.

But I don't think the answer is to just exclude the mass of human society from academia, for the sake of its purity. Especially if we are looking only to class as what qualifies someone access to higher education, there are plenty of people, today especially, who are from high income households that are just as bad as the low and mid income families.

I'd like to say that a newfound interest in tradition, rekindling our relationship with our immediate natural environment and improving our understanding of the other should be an answer, but I am a ridiculous utopian idealist and I know how useless ideas like that are in trying to enact legitimate change.

What both of us want to see in the world is anachronistic at best.

>> No.9263886

>>9263241
I've been dirt poor but I've never considered stealing or robbing people to get ahead.

>> No.9263897

>>9262817
Ivy Leaguers are "liberal" only when it comes to identity politics. It's the same thing on Wall Street and in Silicon Valley, where Ivy Leaguers go on to work.

The majority of Ivy Leaguers are not on financial aid. To not qualify for financial aid, your family has to be clearing well over $250k/year.

>> No.9263935

>>9262866
If the student truly wants to learn something, nothing can stop him. But if he doesn't want to learn anything, nothing can make him.

Most geniuses did their real work and study alone.

>> No.9263957

>>9263345
>ayo the evil whitey CIA is why us blacks act like baboons
Why would they possibly want to do that, nigger?

>> No.9263971

>>9263733
They wouldn't exist if it weren't for academia. They need academia just as much as it needs them.

>>9263897
It's pretty hard for me to see these institutions as anything other than tools for nepotism.

>> No.9264021

>>9263425

I'm not the guy you're arguing with and I also agree that education shouldn't be employmen training. But the point of the OP picture is that government money is being used to prop up the gender studies department etc. The point isn't that we hate the people who study weird and useless shit. It's the fact that they get the money to do this through cronyist funding mechanisms and under any sort of "free(r) market, less government intervention" funding mechanism they would most likely be one of the hardest hit departments.

And I don't agree that without government funding only employment related things would be studied, if the argument goes there.

>> No.9264039

>>9263873
We cant go back, but we can go forward.


The way I see it there are 3 ways of getting what I want:

>Total government collapse wordwide, probably would only happen if there was a nuclear war/asteroid/massive pandemic. Then we could re-make society, the right way.

>Transition to extreme libertarianism, that way people like me can mind our own business and live patrician lives is isolated communities in the countryside. Eventually we should be able to outbreed them (im already planning on having at least 7 kids).

>The third option is establishing some kind of aristocratic monarchy(or at least restricting voting rights to the top 1/4 of the population), probably the least likely of the 3 but who knows


Either way the current system will not last, in an increasingly automated world there are more and more low IQ people breeding... completely unsustainable! I welcome the coming collapse.

>> No.9264047

>>9263971

What the hell are you talking about?
You really think academia predates human intelligence? Or do you just not realize what you are saying?

Academia was created by humans
We do not need it to be intelligent
We do not need it to learn
We do not need it to achieve progress
It is an institution as well
And like many institutions its true purpose is organization and categorization
Also like many institutions it is systematically abused by the corrupt for purposes like nepotism just as you say

>> No.9264141

>>9264047
>You really think academia predates human intelligence? Or do you just not realize what you are saying?
I'm only saying that people mentioned here(>>9263381) would not have their knowledge without academia. Their expertise is derived from their time in academic environments. That's not to say we can't come it with something better. It's only that at the moment needed by the system also need the system, and it's the best one we have right now.

>> No.9264199

>>9264141
most geniuses who seriously advanced human understanding of any worthwhile subject did their work outside of academic quasi-sinecures

>> No.9264350
File: 69 KB, 300x300, 5f7b51abdeea2e0a142a12bea54cead52493dbc124d549dbc60182d6fec6dc80.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9264350

>>9262543
this post almost spooked me to death

>> No.9264487
File: 247 KB, 1188x1579, bernie 2016.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9264487

>>9263873
>>9264039

>> No.9264501

>>9263421
>It's this kind of delusional thinking that is responsible for why a university education is not respected anymore.

Universities were not invented for the purpose of training workers, they were always places of education (including and especially in "bullshit" subject) and even when universities were transitioned into Liberal societies the original intentions were never to serve as breeding grounds for slaves. In fact it had two general purposes: to further knowledge and to give the upper class youth the intellectual edge to dominate the plebs. Once they let the proles in and started translating the acquisition of a degree to the acquisition of a job it's become a major money making scheme first and foremost; not that it wasn't technically before but the problem is more drastic since education became a necessary part of a resume. It's exactly YOUR kind of thinking, in fact, that has made universities disrespected. It's your kind of thinking that took the one good thing about university (the pursuit and cultivation of knowledge) and is destroying it.

>Even your gender studies majors will use university as a spring board for their career
>(or so they think.)
There's nothing wrong with university being nothing but a place for employee training, but it's wrong for gender studies majors to use university for employee training? What is this doublethink?

>And employment is a normal and essential part of life.
As is reading and thinking about subjects that aren't directly translatable to the demands of the capitalist class' job market. Well, it's not normal anymore, clearly, but it should be. But again you're missing the point, going to university for a fucking job promotion is grotesque, it has nothing to do with whether employment is "normal" or "essential," points irrelevant.

>their bullshit philosophy of their sexual proclivities
Gender studies (not a philosophy) is usually about other peoples' sexual proclivities, actually. Literature is often about this too, and so is international economics as a matter of fact. Not sure why sexual proclivities and studying them is some social evil. Seems pretty obvious it's an interesting subject that has far reach in multiple fields. But I mean it's "bullshit", it's just "bullshit", can't beat that argument.

>No one needs [them].
Evidently the free market needs them or they wouldn't be so prominent :^)

>it seems to me you've been trained in employing this kind of "thinking" in your "education."
Of course, Liberal Brainwashing 101, they did the Alex thing ala Clockwork Orange, strapped me into a chair and I've been a good thinker ever since. :^) It's a lovely conspiracy.

>> No.9264521

I always found it funny/disgusting that so many who subscribe to liberal/leftist/egalitarian beliefs and attend prestigious universities are also so elitist about it

Shows that they're just emulating the current fashion

>> No.9264543

>>9263360
>You can question them back, and more often than not from this confrontration something extremely constructive, if not new, will emerge.
>Your idea of educator is completely divorced from what the real world is actually like.
Seeing this in real life is pretty interesting. In my own experience, the people who complain about the SJW brainwashing liberal commie professors are the people that are not willing in any way to engage with them. They come to class and don't participate in discussions, not because they are oppressed. All they wanted was to be told something they wanted to hear and when they end up hearing what they don't want to hear they complain about the conspiracy against their ideology. Anecdotal example: I had exactly one professor that actually could be called in 4chan terms an SJW and when a subject entailing gender relations (of course) came up a student (confirmed Trumpian) sheepishly claimed that he disagreed, was asked politely by the professor why, couldn't formulate an argument about his stance, and then we all moved on. You could tell he took it personally, though hopefully he thought about it and self-examined.

>> No.9264574
File: 201 KB, 329x800, hermes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9264574

>>9264350
Nothing wrong with spooks

>> No.9264576

>>9264543
>was asked politely by the professor why, couldn't formulate an argument about his stance, and then we all moved on.
You really don't understand the power dynamics of the classroom, do you?

>> No.9264664

>>9264576
On the contrary, you clearly don't.

>> No.9264719

>>9264487
If you actually read what I, and what the other anon was saying for that matter, was saying you would see that both of us are skeptical of democracy and socialism as an extension. Neither of us are for whatever Sanders stands for.

>> No.9264744

>>9264574
Except when they spook you, hence the term "spooked," chucklefuck

>>9264664
You've never been in a situation where a professor, when pressed, uses their position to humiliate the student rather than answer the question? It happens from kindergarten onward; a desire to bully is a necessary quality in every teacher or professor

>> No.9264754

>>9264719
you're both cucks though

>> No.9264764 [DELETED] 

So what, exactly, are the radical opinions you are not allowed to express in university? If you're writing a paper on Toni Morrison and refer to her as a "dumb bitch nigger," Harold Bloom, your "hero" would give you a failing grade on that paper.

>> No.9264776

>>9264754
go on.

>> No.9264847

>>9264744
Professors don't teach kindergarten, anonymous. But while I won't say your scenario has never happened, it is not so sure as:
>a desire to bully is a necessary quality in every teacher or professor
I mean, this is just untenable. You seem to have a person problem of experience. Maybe you had this experience. That is unfortunate if so but it doesn't give you license to condemn all of academia as this person. In my anecdote at any rate the professor was not at all confrontational, but trying to get them to explain themselves.

This isn't well advertised but in actuality the classroom power dynamic in higher education is that of peers. This isn't for everyone, some people just want to be told things and not really wrestle with subjects intellectually. The prevalence of this is a huge problem and linked directly with the capitalization of education, and it has the side-effect of producing the social-media/internet version of the telephone game where these uninterested persons blame the university instead of themselves and formulate complex conspiracy theories about SJWs, Commies, the (((Jews))) and the like, when really they're just upset that they aren't able to be the tough guys they are in message boards, where they are hugged by other tough guys for their tough-guy-ness.

>> No.9264854

>>9263457
>uni is inferior to serious private study in almost everything except medicine and law
good thing im studying law then

>> No.9264865 [DELETED] 

>>9264847

lol Universities are toxic environments. Hop off faggot.

>> No.9264883

>>9264865
Kek, why are you such a sensitive? It's going to be okay anon :^)

>> No.9264889
File: 47 KB, 564x400, 1489794613099.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9264889

>>9264744
>being spooked by spooks

lmao get rekt fgt

>> No.9264919 [DELETED] 
File: 1.91 MB, 420x315, dealing with communists.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9264919

>>9264847
>>9264883
this is your fate

>> No.9264925
File: 313 KB, 664x648, commies btfo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9264925

>>9264919

>> No.9265200

>>9263503
>viable alternative
Stop fucking memeing you ideologue.

>> No.9265208

>>9263716

Your life is beyond consideration, faggot.

>> No.9265908
File: 101 KB, 500x664, tumblr_ne4ebdZegN1qmqs6fo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9265908

Post anti-communist qts

>> No.9265923

>>9262007
I thought IQ doesn't mean anything and is racist? Btw libertarians have higher IQ still, what do you make of that?

>> No.9266012

>>9261776
>if muh superior supreme gentleman intellect can't get to uni it means the game is rigged and they are wrong

>> No.9266022

99% of the people ITT barelt made it past high school yet they feel the need to shit on unis because something taxes and something shitskins.

>> No.9266031

>>9264744
All these fags either have bullying, mommy or daddy issues and they spew this bullshit because they just couldn't handle it. Top lel, you're literally tumblrinas

>> No.9266032

>>9262007
Just like how black people have lower IQ. interesting!

>> No.9266037

>>9266032
Jews and Asians have higher IQs. How does that fit in?

>> No.9266046

>>9264919
>>9264925
Killing commies and nazis is literally doing God's work.

>> No.9266053

I hear people talking about self-teaching and autodidacticism but I don't understand how it's better than an actual qualification from a university or trade school. I understand that degrees are becoming less valuable but how can you possibly compete without an actual qualification? Isn't it a bit difficult to prove that you're skilled?

>> No.9266058
File: 34 KB, 655x527, 02f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9266058

>>9265923
>>9262647
Proofs?
i wan to feal smartt

>> No.9266065

>>9266053
Do you actually expect any of these losers to get a job? They can barely function in a store long enough to buy doritos never mind a workplace.

>> No.9266068

>>9266065
But how is a degree not an advantage? And how is self-teaching better?

>> No.9266076

>>9266068
Your reading comprehension is fucking awful. Maybe you should have gone to uni.

>> No.9266146

>What they don't consider is that the best way to learn something is with a teacher, directly interacting with what is being presented in the presence of someone who knows what you're talking about. This is infinitely valuable, and absolutely irreplaceable.
If you're a brainlet, maybe. If you have good materials you don't need a teacher.

>> No.9266152
File: 85 KB, 758x499, HERI-Figure1.faculty-politics.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9266152

>>9263369
>muh epigenetic magic
Why is it that everyone who works in the field of epigenetics treat it like a minor influence on classical genetics but people in the humanities and social sciences think it somehow invalidates any claim about the heritability of human psychological traits?
>>9263251
Do you really need a graph for that?

>> No.9266157

>>9266146
Yeah man, fuck school.

>> No.9266165

>>9266152
>le explain anything through infographs man

Articles too hard to comprehend for babby?

>> No.9266275

>>9266165
It's a graph that shows how university professors have identified themselves politically over the last 30 years.
As you can see, liberals or further left than that have increased very significantly.

>> No.9266278

>>9266157
No, I liked university, but I didn't go to most classes, it was a waste of time. Granted, here it works quite differently than in anglo countries, but still...

>> No.9266637
File: 7 KB, 312x348, Shield.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9266637

>>9262577
>>9262041
>>9263199

y'all are just lazy as fuck; had a bad, idiosyncratic experience in a STEM major; or just went to a shit school

for someone who actually went to princeton for my undergrad and stanford and cornell for grad, the intellectual communities fostered at these places could not be better: professors tend to be as available as you want them to be. at both schools i took advantage of office hours, coffee appointments, etc. with world-class intellectuals who offered me their time, consideration and energy freely. i learned much--but, most importantly, they helped carved out a home in this world for me.

you all should know how dejected, how much full of ressentiment you sound

there are some shitty people--legacies, overly wealthy brats that represent the worlds concentrated forms of power--at these schools, no doubt, but there are plenty of underprivileged people (myself, my freshman year roommate, many of my friends throughout) who are just regular human beings looking for some intellectual satisfaction.

seriously, you all need to step back, chill the fuck out, and recognize that quality education is still available at plenty of top-tier schools.

the names of my degrees have opened doors, but you are still the one that has to step in and prove something. the world is way more aware, way more practical, then you seem capable of perceiving.

>> No.9266723

>>9262340
t b h you can just hire jobless phds for 15$ an hour to tutor you in the field you're interested in, im still studying but when i finish i will do just that; for now i stick with paying 19 yrs old bilingual french girls to help me with their language - thing i also highly recommend, just try a few before you choose

>> No.9267432

>>9266637
I've met many people who attended princeton, and while alot are happy what you have to understand is that the large majority of students clogging colleges are not those seeking council from world-class intellectuals, but simply people looking to attain a higher level of status. If princeton was truly a venerable, purely education focused institution they could make it free, new jersey would clamber all over that shit; it could cost little to nothing attend, but instead the tuition is $40,000 (not including room and board). They might also offer all lectures free to anyone, but of course they would never, they need to protect their image, to be more marketable. They can't let just anyone in. Even princeton knows that it can milk this trend. What fool are you to forget reason by the splendor of an age old institution, just because, outside of their education, they treat the students at the level of the status qou. Did they teach you to be blind at princeton to?

If we wish to take down this regime (so to speak), we must sponsor and promote intellectuals that were educated extra-collegiatally. If the public is convinced that the greatest among us can learn on their own, they'll be no reason why they'll continue to flood our institutions. Then, once private education has diminished, our society may finally florish under thr grandeur of truly free, state-funded institutions, proliferated nationwide to provide a decent standard for all the masses who desire it for work or frivoulity. Maybe then these vestiges of upper-class power which permenaently divide our society would be taken down once and for all.

I don't care if you went to princeton or any other partially private, or private institution. This applies to all of you. Its just that ivy leagues are the worst, since many of them believe they are exempt from this just because they realize it, or because they worked hard to attend one. Know that you aren't, until you drop out or relinquish your degree you are a part of the problem.

>> No.9267471

>my self-taught mind caused this thread

now to post in academia free real threads

>> No.9267808

>>9266637
No one is saying high quality education isn't available there. They're saying that most of the students there are just rich brats who are squandering it or incapable of appreciating it.

>> No.9269986

Kek

>> No.9270019

>>9269986
I wanted a debate but no one will argue against my long expository left wing post.

>> No.9270033
File: 49 KB, 612x249, sil1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9270033

ITT

>> No.9270036

>>9261983
>they don't even think too question it.
heavenly bait

>> No.9270166

>>9270033
Kek