/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.9074937]

When did universities start to become about pseudo-activism?

[Anonymous No.9074942]

When I reached the age of 19 and raped a magpie.

[Anonymous No.9074943]

>>9074937
When I found /pol/

[Anonymous No.9074952]

>>9074937
former 60s radicals got domesticated by the liberal managerial state. Don't worry, it's pretty much over. And what's coming is going to be worse if that's even posible

[Anonymous No.9074954]

Pro-tip: study for actually worthy degree and not a 'well-read coffee server' one.

[Anonymous No.9074981]

>wah wah wah I don't want to have any of my beliefs challenged
>wah wah wah I don't want to actually be a part of an intellectual community
>wah wah wah I want to continue to be coddled by faceless and passionless authority figures

You should have just gone to a trade school. Liberal education is for those who like to think about things in a more general way, and it is impossible to think well about anything without some kind of stimulation in that area. Now, I would be the first to point out that modern liberal education frequently fails to live up to its true mission of the fostering of a general way of thinking that is both rigorous and subtle. But that is not because your professors express their opinions. If anything, it is because of the influence of people like you, who think that higher education is just paying $80000 for a piece of paper.

[Anonymous No.9074991]

>>9074981
t. professor

[Anonymous No.9075069]

>>9074981
>leftists
>"""Intellectuals"""

[Anonymous No.9075075]

>>9074954
And conservatives always wonder why there aren't more right-wing intellectuals.

[Anonymous No.9075081]

>>9074954
You should have studied permaculture, bought land in the southern hemisphere before it was too late, but now you are stuck with a useless CS degree and nowhere to run.

[Anonymous No.9075082]

>>9074981
>>wah wah wah I don't want to have any of my beliefs challenged
But this is exactly what university 'safe spaces' are all about, is it not?

[Anonymous No.9075087]

>>9075082
>'safe spaces'
actually it's about the banal medicalisation of power. Our society is one huge lunatic asylum regardless of who's running it.

[Anonymous No.9075089]

>>9075082
Is it? I think the safe space thing has been overblown by conservative talking heads, they have a similar thing at the California state university where I go but it's literally used for naps and studying, like a satellite of the library.

[Anonymous No.9075109]

>>9074981
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRuIvdbr1fU

you are literally defending this

[Anonymous No.9075134]

>>9075075
Exactly. Those people actually go out and change the world instead of spending years in pointless theorizing and demagoguery to leave a grand legacy of several dozen footnotes in academic texts discussing the very same theorizing and demagoguery. There are those who build the world and those who stand around discussing them. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.9075136]

Since always.

People think that college is ultra left because the vast majority of right-wing voters' highest level of education is high school and think that higher learning is a waste of time if they can just go out and work at the local factory/go back to the farm.

[Anonymous No.9075139]

>>9075081
Nice projection m8.

[Anonymous No.9075158]

>>9075136
>Higher education is a waste of time if you can work at a factory or go back to the farm
It kinda is tho today. I have more information at my fingertips and access to literature than any other time. If you go to college you are simply paying for that departments unique curation of information they believe is most important. Meanwhile I just went to my local libraries book sale and bought catch 22 for ¢50.... Higher education is quite possibly the biggest fuckover of our day.

[Anonymous No.9075167]

>>9074937
I dunno. My college experience wasn't too bad, but I went to an economic university and studied engineering.

I got a Spanish minor and the was one professor in particular who gave zero shits about her Spanish Lit class aside from using it as a soapbox for advocating open borders.

> youhavetogoback.gif

[Anonymous No.9075173]

>>9075069
>liberals
>"leftists"

[Anonymous No.9075178]

>>9075134
>There are those who build the world and those who stand around discussing them.

Conservatives? I'm not so sure I agree, a large point of conservatives in maintenance and living the status quo, unless your example of 'build the world' is stuff like infrastructure and finance. Anyway, I see where you're coming from, but if you cannot see how John Rawls, Marx, Chomsky, Singer, et al. are just as influential as (if not more so), say, Peter Thiel, Jack Welch, Murdoch, and so on, then you are everything that's wrong with the right-wing movement today.

[Anonymous No.9075181]

>>9075158
>college is there to help you absorb a set amount widely available information and certify it
Wew. Who'd have thunk it.

[Anonymous No.9075183]

>>9075158

Yeah, sorry, you can't link your Goodreads list on your resume

[Anonymous No.9075184]

>>9074937
You can believe whatever the fuck you want as a professor (if you're tenured;) if you aren't being hounded constantly by management or a boss you tend to become liberal by the nature of your job.

[Anonymous No.9075205]

>>9075178
Right-wing thought was just as good and influential, you just don't see it because the Nazis lost WW2.

[Anonymous No.9075212]

>>9075167
Well, you can't blame her, there are only one or two Spanish writers worth discussing

[Anonymous No.9075222]

>>9075181
>>9075183
Lol too bad I'm going to inherit the farm you fucking wagecucks. Also, consider the following; why isn't reliable work history and an eloquent, well spoken interview worth anything? I'd much rather employ the man who never missed a day of full time work in 4 years who is also well spoken and mature than some kid with no real work experience except for getting a c degree in some humanities major. Obviously college is necessary STEM but that's about it.

[Anonymous No.9075232]

>>9075205
That's true, but that's the past---I'm saying the right is losing the intellectual/higher education war against the left and their only response seems to be "liberal arts and philosophy and literature are dumb anyway."

[Anonymous No.9075246]

>>9075178
>conflating right-wing with conservatism
>conflating left-wing with progressivism
Just stahp. Of course I'm not denying there are prominent influential thinkers on both sides. My primary point was about degrees and not political alignment anyways.

[Anonymous No.9075259]

ITT
>in society, everyone should play the exact same role

[Anonymous No.9075269]

>>9075246
>Just stahp.

Left-wing encompasses liberalism and progressivism; leftist is closer to progressive, though.

>My primary point was about degrees and not political alignment anyways.

Mine too. Conservatives *and* right-wingers need to obtain more liberal arts degrees, not less, if they want to win the culture/philosophy war.

[Anonymous No.9075279]

>>9075222
>a solid portfolio is better than a degree in creative jobs
Wew. Who'd have thunk it. Tell us more.

[Anonymous No.9075297]

>>9075232
There's lots of shady hard right academics to go around. In fact, they've been far more influential than Chomsky, who's merely allowed on TV every once in a while. The idpol 'beyonce studies' crowd is utterly nonthreatening as it fulfils a confessional and exculpatory role for capitalism, hyping the latest 'woke' commodities.

The Neocons did more to define the course of history than all the post new left tenured radicals put together. The Trump administration is under heavy influence from Paleocons like Paul Gottfried and NrXers like Curtis Yarvin, who just has half a computer science degree

[Anonymous No.9075304]

>>9075109
I'm a hardcore leftist but wow, that teacher was a complete drama bitch. I even feel bad for the totally not /pol/ student.

[Anonymous No.9075323]

>>9075269
'progressivism' in the american context is just a marketing term for managerial neoliberalism 'with a human face'. The original early 20th progressives were bourgeoisie protestants who were for public enforcement of morality ie. prohibition and tossing scraps to the working class stave off the prospect of revolution. Nothing even remotely left about it.

[Anonymous No.9075343]

>>9075269
Closer doesn't mean the same as.

As the farm boy rightfully pointed out in this thread you don't really need a degree to be well versed in humanities and critical thinking is in much higher supply in natural sciences et al. I see your general point about education, but it's not really a relevant one. There is no philosophical war. The right has won on economic policies, the left on social. There are some overreaches on both sides and people are going back and forth from protesting batshit insane trade agreements to protesting retarded migration policies, but that's just normal fluctuations in my opinion. Slowly we're going to find the optimal solution to all those problems.

[Anonymous No.9075360]

>>9075297
>There's lots of shady hard right academics to go around.

Neoliberal economics professors? Regardless, studies show the liberal arts are overwhelmingly left.

>The Neocons did more to define the course of history than all the post new left tenured radicals put together.

You mean the people influenced by Kristol, Fukuyama, Strauss (who taught Wolfowitz), and so on? The prominent Palocons *are* intellectuals with liberal arts degrees, no? I'm not only saying the right needs more professors and academic researchers, just liberal arts minded individuals in general.

John Rawls is more influential than any paleocon.

[Anonymous No.9075366]

>>9074981
>spouts propaganda
>I'm so intellectual pls gib grant moni
>pls gib
>pls im beggin u
Really poaches my eggs

[Anonymous No.9075368]

>>9075297
Yes, the Chomsky bit is quite right. He's rather prolific scientifically, but politically he's divorced from reality and completely inept like so many other academics.

[Anonymous No.9075381]

>>9075360
John Rawls is as milquetoast liberal as you can get, not quite the cultural marxist ZOG KGB boogeyman of the rightist imaginary

[Anonymous No.9075392]

>>9075368
t. bibi netanyahu

[Anonymous No.9075453]

>>9074937
because high school teaches an incomplete, simplified view of the world, in which everything is objective. college acknowledges the truth that the world is what you make of it, a total subjective mess in which opinions are the only things that truly exist. thus, the teacher is allowed and even encouraged to express their views on the world. and because only smart people are allowed in universities, those views are mostly leftist.

[Anonymous No.9075478]

>>9075082
Careful with that, unbiased and rational thought is offensive to the ever common libtard. You don't want that anon's blood on your hands do you? Pointing out how retarded they are is basically the same thing as raping them after all.

#FuckDrumpf

[Anonymous No.9075485]

>>9075453
>only smart people are allowed in universities
This isn't true even for STEM degrees and it's laughable for humanities.

[Anonymous No.9075491]

>>9075453
>college acknowledges the truth that the world is what you make of it, a total subjective mess in which opinions are the only things that truly exist
Except libtards preach their morality as the ultimate truth (see how they accuse all their opponents of being "uneducated" or "ignorant")
>thus, the teacher is allowed and even encouraged to express their views on the world. and because only smart people are allowed in universities, those views are mostly leftist.
kek

[Anonymous No.9075500]

>>9075453
I love how this one married female poster ruins her anonymity by refusing to use capitals in every single thread

like wew lad

[Anonymous No.9075536]

>>9074937
>tfw I join the liberal circle jerk in every class to ensure I get an A and without hesitating regurgitate the same cultural marxist garbage my peers enthusiastically offer all the while harboring pure and violent hatred for them and all they stand for while biding my time until I've gotten what I need so I can destroy them from a position of power
>mfw this is a thing
>mfw this was a shitstorm a while back
>http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-shy-voters-polls-gop-insiders-230411 etc
>mfw they have no way of knowing the truth about me or anyone
>mfw I have no face

[Anonymous No.9075550]

>>9075536
>cultural marxist
Back to /pol/, bby.

[Anonymous No.9075568]

>>9075550
record = corrected
thanks anon

[Anonymous No.9075574]

>>9075536
Could you tell me what Cultural Marxism does? More specifically, how is it making society more Marxist?

[Anonymous No.9075593]

>>9074981
>taking such an expansive definition of the word "liberal"
>liberal arts = muh leftist cucks

[Anonymous No.9075601]

>>9075574
http://www.infowars.com/fox-comedy-features-6yo-trans-boy-wearing-bondage-gag/

[Anonymous No.9075616]

>>9075601
But how does that help along the proletariat's revolution?

[Anonymous No.9075631]

>>9075616
>talking rationally with a 16 year old /pol/tard

[Anonymous No.9075640]

>>9075109

>a bad professor has expressed his opinion in a hamfisted and authoritarian way characteristic of a bad professor
>therefore no professor should ever express an opinion, especially if it is contrary to mine

you are literally defending this

[Anonymous No.9075656]

>>9074937
1829

[Anonymous No.9075758]

>>9075656
1830 was a better time
1848 best year of my life tho

[Anonymous No.9075791]

>>9074981
>falling for the intellectual meme

[Anonymous No.9075820]

>>9075574
>>9075574
The subversion of local and often superior culture and norms by the installation and propagation of otherly cultures and norms, legitimizing the latter at the expense and demonization of the former pursuant to an artificial 'equality' of fundamentally unequal ideas and groups privileging the undeserved and irregular at the expense of the commonality, resulting in unnatural state of social degradation.


This is taking the underlying economic theories of Marxism and applying them in every facet of life, aimed at perverting and equalizing art, sex, literature, right, wrong, and so forth. It's just as Nietzsche said, the strong must be protected from the weak, modern and demented society glorifies the weak and revels in victimization.

Funnily enough, people dislike being told 2+2=5. The reactionary backlash this has caused is directly responsible for the recent surge in populism, for Brexit, for Trump, etc.. The cultural marxists of the world truly are idiots of the highest/lowest order. Not that I think it's a conscious act for most, they've been totally subsumed by ideology and are basically brainless automatons who with no grounding in reality anymore.

[Anonymous No.9075850]

>>9075574
>>9075574
The subversion of local and often superior culture and norms by the installation and propagation of otherly cultures and norms, legitimizing the latter at the expense and demonization of the former pursuant to an artificial 'equality' of fundamentally unequal ideas and groups privileging the undeserved and irregular at the expense of the commonality, resulting in an unnatural state of social degradation.

This is taking the underlying economic theories of Marxism and applying them in every facet of life, aimed at perverting and 'equalizing' art, sex, literature, and so forth all the way to re appropriating even right and wrong. It's just as Nietzsche said, the strong must be protected from the weak, and modern society in its current demented form glorifies the weak, revels in victimization, and looks to remove the last vestiges of humanity whose very nature rebels towards the virtuous and true.

But all hope is not yet lost. People dislike being told 2+2=5. The reactionary backlash this evil has caused is directly responsible for the recent surge in populism, for Brexit, for Trump, etc which even failing to undo their efforts are proof of their ultimate futility. The cultural marxists of the world truly are idiots of the highest/lowest order. Not that I think it's a conscious act for most, they've been totally subsumed by ideology and are basically brainless automatons who with no grounding in reality anymore. I'd pity the beasts if only they weren't so contemptible.

[Anonymous No.9075860]

>>9075640
#NotAllLiberals

[Anonymous No.9075870]

>>9074981
nice b8 m8 I r8 it 8/8

[Anonymous No.9075909]

>>9075850
>not understanding Marxism
>not understanding Nietzsche
>using retarded buzzwords to demonize opponents and channel hatred
You were told to fuck off in another thread already, bubbah.

[Anonymous No.9075916]

>>9074954
t. reddit
>>9074981
>intellectual
m-muh will to truth

[Anonymous No.9075918]

>>9075909
>not an argument
>not an argument
>not an argument
>being so assblasted you need to stalk posts and repeat your assblasts

[Anonymous No.9075921]

>>9075918
>nothing is an argument
>assblasted
Go back to /pol/, child, please.

[Anonymous No.9075927]

>>9075601
>infowars on /lit/
pls kys :)

[Anonymous No.9075929]

>>9075916
t. starbucks employee of the month

[Anonymous No.9075936]

>>9075921
>Go back to /pol/, child, please.
The fucking HEIGHT of not an argument.

alongside some very trite personal attacks

really anon your flatulence is most offensive

[Anonymous No.9075940]

>>9075366
Sage is a spice xddddd you really got me man

[Anonymous No.9075941]

>>9075929
I don't work, no need.

[Anonymous No.9075944]

>>9074937
When the Right decided education was their fucking punching bag. So there are actually people who can claim, presumably with a straight face, that academics should be politically neutral--despite Republicans doing their damnedest to vilify, discredit, defund, obstruct and destroy the social fabric and institutions that make our careers possible? Let's be clear: if you are a professor, Republican politicians are your enemy, and it was their decision to start that war. There's no ambiguity there (and I teach in the humanities, which is the prime target for their idiocy). As another humanities professor said:

"The right has tried to dismantle the humanities under the false notion that the humanities indoctrinate. Actually, the humanities teach students to think independently, which is antithetical to the desire of ditto heads, who would much prefer an audience that absorbs talking points without facts. The right would much prefer thought control and Orwellian information control that would produce dittoheads who don't question and vote based upon disinformation and Fox-News propaganda. The humanities makes that oh so much more difficult to ram down the throats of a non-thinking electorate.

Do I sympathize with right-leaning hand-wringers whose jobs are made difficult by basic tenets of reason that have been the basis of western civilization for thousands of years? Boo hoo. No, I don't. Long live the humanities, and may they survive the current assaults on their influence."

[Anonymous No.9075945]

>>9075134
>Those people actually go out and change the world instead of spending years in pointless theorizing and demagoguery to leave a grand legacy of several dozen footnotes in academic texts discussing the very same theorizing and demagoguery
and that children is why the left is winning the culture war

[Anonymous No.9075949]

>>9075850
>and looks to remove the last vestiges of humanity whose very nature rebels towards the virtuous and true.
I was with you up until this point, the very reason we as a society arbitrarily subsidize the interest of one group over another and can be so swayed to iniquitous deeds is because mankind is fundamentally shit, if we tended towards the good we'd be in a utopia by now

this rousseauian notion of man is naturally good is ridiculous, society corrupts man? It's a chicken and egg problem then

[Anonymous No.9075950]

>>9075500
it's called attention seeking

[Anonymous No.9075953]

>>9075944 (You)
expertly crafted b8

[Anonymous No.9075965]

>>9075944
>false notion that the humanities indoctrinate
>humanities teach students to think independently
>but we're being attacked by right wingers
>so it's justified to push lefty propaganda
Brilliant logic.

[Anonymous No.9075972]

>>9075945
>the culture war meme
>he's not even alt-right
Why do you deliberately choose to be retarded?

[Anonymous No.9075986]

>>9075965
Self-preservation is almost always logical.. If Republicans getting into office directly threatens your job, you're not likely to encourage that happening. When Republicans spend idiotic amounts of time trying to convince the general public that your job is at best useless, at worst some kind of treason, you'd have to be a moron to be disposed kindly towards them. That doesn't mean I tell students how to vote, but it does mean I feel no particular obligation to pretend I don't know who my enemies are. The loudest right-wing rhetoric, especially in recent years, is firmly anti-intellectual, anti-education, and anti-arts. They drew the battle lines: I'm just honoring them.

[Anonymous No.9075994]

>>9075944
>facts
>reason
muh will to truth

You absolutely do indoctrinate.

[Anonymous No.9075999]

>>9075986
Republicans don't like universities because they push liberal propaganda. And no, Democrats are not more pro-intellectual or pro-education at all. See their opposition to racial science.

[Anonymous No.9076001]

>>9074937
jesus fuck when will /pol/ leave this board. stop lowering the level of discourse please

[Anonymous No.9076009]

>>9075986
>my enemies lie about me being biased
>I'm not a moron so I'm going to actually be biased in response
W E W
E
W

[Anonymous No.9076013]

>>9075994
No, my dear asshat, we don't. Indoctrination is teaching people to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. I work my ass off to force students to be skeptical and critical of everything, including me, including liberal ideology, including feminism, etc. I'm trying to make scholars, not unthinking left-wingers. The Right, by and large, does not return the favor. I'll shred a liberal author's essay and then a conservative author in the next breath. But once students can discern faulty arguments, confirmation bias, and bullshit, they tend to end up unimpressed by Trump and Fox News for some odd reason.

[Anonymous No.9076023]

>>9076013
>skeptical
Except of, perhaps, the idea of skepticism itself, or any other nonsense Platonic ideal that has been propagated by Hellenophiles?

No, you certainly aren't biased, you're perfect and teach kids to be perfect and they just happen to agree with you because you're perfect!

[Anonymous No.9076029]

>>9076013
Every liberal professor thinks this
>I teach my students to be skeptical of everything, except some things are just unquestionably true, that's just not right you fucking racist sexist bigots
The fact that you think that being educated precludes you from being right wing is proof enough of your bias.

[Anonymous No.9076033]

>>9076013
by the way YOURE A FUCKING ASS FOR CRITICIZING ME THE RIGHT IS ALWAYS BAD AND THE LEFT IS GREAT NO ONE WOULD BE A FUCKING RACIST WHITE MALE IF THEY WERE GRACED BY MY PRESENCE

[Anonymous No.9076036]

>>9075944
>"The right has tried to dismantle the humanities under the false notion that the humanities indoctrinate.
>>9075944
>The right would much prefer thought control and Orwellian information control that would produce dittoheads
this seems like a fair and balanced representation with no vested interests or ideas at all

[Anonymous No.9076041]

>p-please indoctribate me professor sensei.

This is a new low. Even for /lit/.

[Anonymous No.9076044]

>>9076009
I can see you're confused, so I'll try to use small words. I am biased because I'm human, and because right-wing politicians hate the humanities. There are no utterly unbiased teachers. That doesn't mean I can't teach critical thinking and awareness of bias to students. I point out my own biases in class, and expect them to learn their own. I'm not interested in students sharing my social and political beliefs, I'm interested in them being able to break out some of their preconceptions, and explore some areas they haven't, and realize some of the bullshit they've been taught.

[Anonymous No.9076048]

>>9076044
They hate the humanities because they force their bias on others. You are a threat to them, so isn't it logical that they hate you?

Is this only justified when you hate them for threatening you?
>I'm interested in them being able to break out some of their preconceptions, and explore some areas they haven't, and realize some of the bullshit they've been taught.
yeah and when that happens they'll just magically agree with me because only stupid white males disagree with me!

Get your head out of your ass, you're an absolute joke.

[Anonymous No.9076052]

>>9076036
And why would the professor who said that (I assume you noticed I was quoting, since I said so), be unbiased? Why would anyone be stupid enough to pretend to have no vested interests? That quote isn't from a lecture, it's from Facebook.

[Anonymous No.9076054]

>>9076044
as any authority figure presenting as anything but neutral is a betrayal of the truth you're afforded

it's natural for students to associate rightness and emulate authority figures, regardless of how you dress it up

[Anonymous No.9076058]

>>9076054
betrayal of the trust*

freudian slip :^)

[Anonymous No.9076059]

>>9076054
>it is possible to present yourself neutrally
As if, even being neutral IS a political position.

[Anonymous No.9076062]

>>9075850
dominant culture != superior culture

if it were superior it wouldn't be overwritten

[Anonymous No.9076066]

>>9076059
>hurr durr not part of the problem part of the solution
you've all the wisdom of a bumper sticker anon

[Anonymous No.9076070]

>>9076048
Of course they're justified in hating me, but not because I "force my biases" on anyone (I seriously doubt I've ever changed some die-hard conservative student's political views) . I am their fucking enemy because I'm an educator and they feed off ignorance. Should I be sympathetic to the argument "if you teach people to distinguish between fact and fiction and think skeptically and independently, they tend to be more liberal, and that interferes with our plans"?

[Anonymous No.9076072]

>>9076066
Not an argument, and spoken like someone who DEFINITELY does not personally have to deal with the problem.

[Anonymous No.9076078]

>>9076070
You're running in circles.
>Should I be sympathetic to the argument "if you teach people to distinguish between fact and fiction and think skeptically and independently, they tend to be more liberal, and that interferes with our plans"?
Nobody says that. Your bias is that you think that "critical thinking" students will tend to be more liberal, which is false.

[Anonymous No.9076091]

>>9076072
I go to an American university, I deal with my professors inflecting their agenda every day, I find it pretty revolting.

It's the nuclear detente theory, the first one to resume a dignified position and let themselves be vulnerable by doing the right thing will find, rather than being obliterated, the opposition will follow suit.

[Anonymous No.9076099]

>>9076054
That's hilarious. In that case, they'd better stay home, because most educators in universities are liberal (especially in the humanities), and even if we try to hide it, it wouldn't take much sleuthing to figure it out. The Right loves to out us at every turn, after all. If you think I can't teach critical thinking and skeptical fact-checking because I don't like Trump, then ask yourself who can.

[Anonymous No.9076110]

>>9076099
It has nothing to do with not liking Trump, it's everything to do with keeping your professional and political life separate, which is what any respectable person would do.

[Anonymous No.9076119]

>>9076070
>demonizes his opponents and reduces them to a single issue stereotype
>refuses to accept his actions might have a negative side effect due to personal bias
A person who claims to be able to teach bias awareness and skeptical thinking.

[Anonymous No.9076123]

>>9075944
Since its inception, the University has always served as a mechanism of indoctrination/pacification/personnel training for the reigning form of spectacular domination. The nationalist right and the neoliberal 'left' are just different variants of spectacular power, the way in which they use institutions and ideology may vary, but their ends are exactly the same.

[Anonymous No.9076140]

>>9076123
Please stop polluting this discussion with your oligophrenic notions. They're embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.9076143]

>>9076078
>Your bias is that you think that "critical thinking" students will tend to be more liberal, which is false.
Oh, did you think I didn't have proof? How silly. Your bias--as we'll see momentarily--is that you want to believe your statement enough that you're about to argue that university education doesn't produce better critical thinkers than those who skip post-secondary education. I don't have time for that bullshit, so I will just point out the well-known and verifiable fact that the more formal education one has, the more likely one is, statistically, to vote Democrat.
Democrats lead by 22 points (57%-35%) in leaned party identification among adults with post-graduate degrees. The Democrats’ edge is narrower among those with college degrees or some post-graduate experience (49%-42%), and those with less education (47%-39%). Across all educational categories, women are more likely than men to affiliate with the Democratic Party or lean Democratic. The Democrats’ advantage is 35 points (64%-29%) among women with post-graduate degrees, but only eight points (50%-42%) among post-grad men.
http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

[Anonymous No.9076161]

>>9076119
What "negative side effect," precisely?

[Anonymous No.9076169]

>>9076143
>Your bias--as we'll see momentarily--is that you want to believe your statement enough that you're about to argue that university education doesn't produce better critical thinkers than those who skip post-secondary education.
Yes, of course I'm arguing that. There's no reason to believe that people who go through college tend to be critical thinkers.
>I don't have time for that bullshit, so I will just point out the well-known and verifiable fact that the more formal education one has, the more likely one is, statistically, to vote Democrat.
Because college education is associated with wealth. People vote along class lines, not ideological ones, and the Democrats have set themselves up as the party for the "educated".

Most people with degrees or in university are "educated but dumb". Do you really think that the Democrats should appeal to critical thinking people? You think an intelligent person who questions things wouldn't be skeptical of Hillary's corruption, or the idea of egalitarianism?

[Anonymous No.9076181]

>>9076169
Yes, that's the sort of crap I don't have time for. Have a good night.

[Anonymous No.9076183]

>>9076143
>blatantly stating Democrat voters are better critical thinkers
You couldn't make this shit up.

[Anonymous No.9076196]

>>9076091
I meant needing to actually attempt teaching.

[Anonymous No.9076201]

>>9076161
That your personal biases invariably shift and skew your students' worldview including their political views. The fact that you teach critical thinking doesn't magically absolve you from this responsibility that comes with being an authority figure, particularly an educator.

[Anonymous No.9076211]

>>9076140

[Anonymous No.9076225]

>>9076181
>spews his lefty political agenda
>it gets challenged
>i dun have time for your bullshit
Liberal arts professor: a portrait.

[Anonymous No.9076234]

>>9076070
THEY'RE FUCKING IGNORANT BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH THEM ANYBODY EDUCATED WITH DISAGREE WITH THEM BECAUSE IM RIGHT
>>9076143
Education does not cause critical thinking, it so often causing factory thinking.

Try again.
>not questioning statistics

[Anonymous No.9076261]

>>9076140
Both liberals and the nationalist right are invested in preserving and furthering the extent of the political economy's total dominance over human life. You and your biometric data are just disposable resources for a system bent on total accumulation .

[Anonymous No.9076273]

>tfw went to college in Europe
>tfw first week Heidegger lectures
>tfw first year failure rate 50%
>tfw it doesn't get better in second year
>tfw degree actually means something
>tfw could have dropped out of second level education at 16 with more Greek and Latin than most of /lit/
It feels a bit like the US version of events is a troll, but if you visit, it's disturbingly real. I'm sure most American college students couldn't define a classical education but are avidly against it or knowing what one is. Very disturbing.

[Anonymous No.9076280]

>>9076273
>philosophy
>degree actually means something

[Anonymous No.9076287]

>>9076273
>wasting time on dead languages in secondary

[Anonymous No.9076290]

>>9076280
>Heidegger is only taught in philosophy
Kid, they'd teach Plato before him in that case.

[Anonymous No.9076293]

>>9076287
>not reading Greeks for the lewd bits
Serves me right for posting when Western Europe is gone to bed.

[Anonymous No.9076294]

>>9076290
>anything involving Heidegger in first year
>degree actually means something

[Anonymous No.9076305]

>>9076294
It means I can touch a Mondrian without a security guard breaking my arm.

[Anonymous No.9076309]

>>9076293
From Western Europe, just not prone to rationalizing wasted time with muh cultural superiority.

[Anonymous No.9076314]

>>9076305
>touching paintings

[Anonymous No.9076318]

>>9076273
>tfw taught myself Greek and Latin in high school
I still had no gf though

[Anonymous No.9076344]

my math prof spent like ten minutes making a speech about how math and science are about trying to find truth, how math can teach you to identify deception and bullshit and how it's just HORRIBLE how Trump said illegal immigrants went to vote democrat without presenting hard factual proofs
"this just can't be!" "ridiculous!"

when people shout about how evil trump cheated his way to victory because they lost and that's proof enough he doesn't say shit of course

this university is not even in america

last time i went to his class desu
like fuck you man everything math related you say is in the script anyways i don't need this

[Anonymous No.9076349]

>>9076344
Pro-tip: don't go to shit universities in shit countries.

[Anonymous No.9076356]

>>9076349
i really am sorry that i am less than 200 thousand dollars in debt and will still find a job

[Anonymous No.9076361]

>>9076309
>reading the foundations of Western Canon
>including the parts that are usually censored
Why are you on /lit/? The reason why they used teach Greek to only upper class men who they thought were morally incorruptible and only displayed certain collections in libraries and museums to suitably educated people is because half of the Greeks are what teenagers search for on the internet hoping Mom doesn't walk in, only with better comedic timing.

The idea it's wasted time is a kind of perverse attitude not just to education, but also to life, that I would expect of an American, having seen they do actually produce children in adults bodies, because you sound like a child who's been told to eat their vegetables by parents they know hate vegetables. Vegetables are perfectly nice, but the child knows their prejudice against them and trusts it more than tastebuds.

How you got "cultural superiority" from "reading porn is fun" is probably why you need to rationalize it as the only reason to learn Greek is cultural superiority; does teaching teenagers mathematics, which they don't and won't spend as much time on as porn or art, equally comprise cultural superiority and wasted time, or do you think it's a greater waste?

The idea that the Greeks are somehow culturally superior is bullshit created to keep women and the lower classes from reading lewd bits. Personally, I've never found reading the sex jokes a waste of my time, but I did have gfs unlike >>9076318
Maybe he wasted his time but it's not like it's my fault he doesn't know how to fap, if that is the case.

tl;dr- did you just call dick jokes 101 cultural superiority? kek

[Anonymous No.9076367]

>>9076314
>painting touchings

[Anonymous No.9076375]

>>9076356
Not American, but not from your shithole either.

[Anonymous No.9076377]

>>9076314
>>9076367

[Anonymous No.9076430]

>>9076361
I was replying to your smugposting about learning Greek and Latin in school, therefore being culturally superior to Americans. Now you should probably work on your reading comprehension in English to avoid writing ridiculous walls based on misunderstandings.

Also it is entirely reasonable to call it a waste of time in secondary school, because Greek and Latin are only necessary in a handful of fields as opposed to maths, and the main purpose of secondary school should be to prepare you for higher education, where you would proceed to specialize professionally and develop personally, wholly responsible for all the steps you take on your way to becoming a well-rounded human being, including learning dead languages for masturbatory purposes.

[Anonymous No.9076485]

>>9076430
No, you were replying to where I talked about the lewd bits, but didn't want to move with the conversation.
Learning multiple languages in school is considered basic marketability of your future work force pretty much everywhere besides the US, where it only picks up in the upper classes who are vastly more wealthy than their nearest competitors. I'm glad I got the education I did, and don't see it as a waste of time, nor do I find the living languages I learnt which I don't use regularly or use for shitposting to have been a waste. I don't find mathematics to have been a waste, but I use them far less in any of my work than any language I learnt.

It seems you think certain fields are more valuable and fields that involve Greek and Latin must be de facto less valuable than ones that use mathematics, so this cultural superiority thing seems slightly like you felt the cultural superiority of learning modern languages, or Mathematics or Physics to be threatened by the languages considered to originate and preserve these things until Newton in the West, as though any claim they could be relevant would be undermining somehow rather than foundational. A shorter way of putting it would be this sounds like projection, coming from someone who feels their view of culturally superior subjects to be threatened by the subjects' basis, and who is slightly afraid other people might enjoy masturbation.

Why do you want to keep the Greeks as stuffy and useless? Do people who don't do their own tax returns scandalise you as much as masturbators, or are they less of a threat to modern life than the Classics department storming parliament?

[Anonymous No.9076572]

>>9075850
But how does any of that help the proletariat seize the means of production? You haven't answered this question.

Also that Nietzsche quote is a little odd, considering that rich people are weak as fuck and needs others to protect them constantly.

[Anonymous No.9076576]

>>9076318

πόρνος

[Anonymous No.9076592]

>>9074952
Can you elaborate on what you think is coming? As a part of the liberal managerial state, I want to be ahead of the curve.

[Anonymous No.9076595]

>>9076576
what did you type into google translate or whatever? i'm pretty sure you don't mean to call anon a low rent rent boy for not having gf, but it looks like it's what you're trying to do...

[Anonymous No.9076598]

>>9076485
You know this annoying type of people who seem like they bottle their own farts just to smell them later? This is you telling me what I replied to, making faulty assumptions about me based, once again, on your misinterpretations of a pretty clear and simple statement, and then devolving into demagoguery with chunky bits of armchair psychology.

I'm not assigning value judgements to different fields, I'm merely stating that essential math is necessary in a larger amount of fields than Greek or Latin. Likewise great many other subjects. Time is our most valuable resource and managing it wisely is of paramount importance. Compulsory Greek in Latin in secondary school represent enormous opportunity cost and while these may be justified for the few, they certainly are not for the many. I'm not criticizing your enjoyment of these languages, I'm criticizing the school system you had to go through and now represent and flaunt as advantageous to that of the United States, which it isn't in respect to dead languages.

[Anonymous No.9076613]

>>9075850
Nazis misunderstanding Nietzsche is one of my favorite memes

[Anonymous No.9076621]

>>9076592
Nrx Fash-Reaganist police state, dank cyberpunk aesthetics but it's a pain in the ass to actually live there

[Anonymous No.9076633]

>>9076273
>classical education
Mindless infodrinking.

[Anonymous No.9076664]

>>9076598
>You know this annoying type of people who seem like they bottle their own farts just to smell them later?
Aristophanes wrote a whole play about it :3

>This is you telling me what I replied to, making faulty assumptions about me based, once again, on your misinterpretations of a pretty clear and simple statement, and then devolving into demagoguery with chunky bits of armchair psychology.
You did reply to that post. It's in the quote chain. I find it interesting that you calling cultural superiority was fine, but when I provide a reasoning you might find mathematics more superior to Greek counts as cultural superiority (and not necessarily one that is empirically present beyond your mind), that's just armchair psychology. You're bringing a lot of prejudice to this conversation, and seem more interested in defending your bias than recognising it.
>Compulsory Greek and Latin
Neither was compulsory, but mathematics isn't compulsory across my school system either, because that too represents an opportunity cost which can't be justified for the whole. This is what I mean about you having preconceived notions about cultural value; it never crossed your mind that mathematics might not be compulsory for those students it represents an opportunity cost for, nor did it enter your mind that anyone would could choose a classical education rather than have one forced upon them.

And compared to the US, we are doing well, especially if you considered the possibility they import external graduates to cover these holes in education at an extraordinary rate, including to one on one tutoring positions for wealthy children who won't be given that education in the US without hiring a graduate from abroad. The US system at a university level, even though these are universities with high fee levels, has remedial courses for native speakers and all sorts of travesties, while the student body is unconcerned by what would be considered anyone else to be an education crisis. I don't think it's fair to Americans to say it's just their culture and who are we to judge, when if this were any other country where their 18 year olds who made it to university couldn't write a coherent sentence in their native language, you would probably be concerned about the government getting the youth into debt and leaving them unprepared for the jobs' market.
I don't buy it that you actually think a system with compulsory Greek would be a greater travesty than the US system finds itself in currently, because most of the systems that have had compulsory Greek are famously desirable, not least as a marker of wealth, and where Americans can afford it, they buy it rather than deal with their general system of education.

[Anonymous No.9076692]

This literally just happened in my collage class today. The professor is literally a Jewess as well. I don't mind it though: being pissed at a Jew for being a Leftist is like being pissed at a Chinaman for eating dog. They can't help it so why be pissed?

[Anonymous No.9076698]

>>9074937
In the olive groves outside Athens.

[Anonymous No.9076728]

>>9075087

This desu.

Different clowns, same circus.

[Anonymous No.9076729]

>>9076169
>Yes, of course I'm arguing that. There's no reason to believe that people who go through college tend to be critical thinkers.
I'm curious why you think that. Are you aware that critical thinking is a learned skill?

[Anonymous No.9076782]

>>9076729
It isn't learned in indoctrination factories.

[Anonymous No.9076799]

>>9076782
Okay. I also agree that critical thinking is not learned in indoctrination factories. Now, why do you think that colleges are indoctrination factories?

[Anonymous No.9076810]

>>9076799
Social condemnation of unpopular opinions. Effectively, the furthest right one will see is a group of STEM students that are critical of feminism and Islam.

[Anonymous No.9076820]

>>9074937
I go to a very liberal school and most of my Econ professors are right wing

[Anonymous No.9076824]

>>9076810
>why won't my peers listen to my rants about white genocide? sheeple!

[Anonymous No.9076831]

>>9076824
projecting

[Anonymous No.9076836]

>>9076810
Social condemnation of unpopular opinions occurs in nearly every area of society. By this logic, all of society is an indoctrination machine, though pointed in different directions from different places. If you take issue with that, you take issue with the very possibility of learning critical thinking from other people at all. A corollary of this is further doubt on the possibility of learning objective facts from any authority source. If social pressure to fit in to the in-crowd taints all knowledge learned from that crowd, it becomes almost impossible to learn anything objective from anyone, assuming that everyone exerts some kind of societal pressure on their peers. Is this your stance?

[Anonymous No.9076838]

>>9076831
idk what that word means anymore, honestly

[Anonymous No.9076847]

>>9076664
>when I provide a reasoning
That's not armchair psychology that's just your severely lacking reading comprehension and self-absorption. Not only did I not claim any superiority of maths to Greek in my first post, but also expanded upon this point in the second, explicitly stating that I don't assign subjective values to those fields. I'm sorry to delve into ad hominem pocket once again, but I'm simply baffled that you would continue to ramble about your retarded "reasoning". I sincerely hope this is just intricate trolling.
>This is what I mean about you having preconceived notions about cultural value; it never crossed your mind
I don't have any preconceived notions about cultural value, you really have to actually read what I'm saying and not theorize on the assumptions you've built up in your head, otherwise it seems like you're pushing some insecurity projections. I am at fault for assuming your Greek/Latin were compulsory though. I live in a country where it is and am surrounded by other countries where it is, so there's that. Apologies.

As for American system - it is rather broken in my opinion, but I was only comparing it in the aspect of not having compulsory Greek/Latin as opposed to what I have falsely assumed you have been subjected to. And yes, I think that if we tack those compulsory languages onto American system it would only make it worse. You shouldn't mistake correlation for causation.

[Anonymous No.9076883]

>>9074937
Colleges are less political than they've ever been; courses are consumer items and students have a bigger-than-ever influence on the syllabus. For example, if you have a hundred Lit undergrads and 85 of them consistently want to write theses on feminism...thats what we will provide. We're all good neo-liberals now. Another perfect example is writing courses; everyone knows theyre useless but wheres theres demand theres supply. This obsession some of you lads have with SJWs etc isn't good for you; youre doing bad things for your blood pressure over soemthing that hardly exists as you imagine it does.

[Anonymous No.9076928]

>>9076836
Yes, all of society is an indoctrination machine.

Critical thinking is a nonthing.
Objectivity does not exist.

[Anonymous No.9076929]

>>9076847
Do you really think that a conversation you started with insults is really going to be degraded by you continuing to use them? Really you should apologise for posts where you don't use them and stick to the matter at hand rather than your opponent.

You did claim that mathematics had superiority to Greek, because you thought it didn't have enough utility across enough fields, enough that teaching it at secondary level would be "a waste of time". To be honest, if you didn't think it was a waster of time, I'm struggling to see why you would repeatedly call it one and make it the second layer of our disagreement, after the insults you've come to recognise are thematic.

>I don't have any preconceived notions about cultural value,
Again, the idea that teaching Greek at secondary is a waste of time, more so than math, is a preconceived notion about cultural value. The other preconceptions I've listed about how the school system I attended must work which haven't panned out in reality aside, at least have the courage to accept that it is a cultural value to defend mathematics as more useful than Greek. If you aren't advocating a cultural value, again, why the disagreement? Why say mathematics was on balance more useful than Greek? It's like you're afraid if that's a cultural value then it might be as valid as the cultural value that says the opposite, but if you truly don't see how it is a cultural value which preconceives of mathematics are more useful, you're essentially brainwashed to a disturbing extent.

Most systems which have had compulsory Greek are still entirely more defensible than the US system. Why on earth would you assume anyone only wanted to transfer the compulsory Greek part? (Especially since it was you who introduced the idea of compulsory Greek as the alternative, since I wasn't raising such a system by presenting my education system, though again, your prejudice assumed it was from me.) You're being bludgeoned by your own strawmen being stronger than your arguments against them, and no amount of insults can dig you out of the hole you're making for yourself. I feel kind of bad for continuing this conversation, because you're the one who correlated compulsory Greek with its inverse of American education. Do these countries with compulsory Greek around you produce university students who cannot express themselves in whole sentences like American university attendees?

[Anonymous No.9076986]

>>9075381
Funny how almost all liberal thinkers are milquetoast. Yet in order to create their utopia they must cede power to those willing to use the barrel of a gun.

[Anonymous No.9076996]

>>9076836
>By this logic, all of society is an indoctrination machine
Well, yes, just not in any way /pol/ thinks it is. They can see the forest but they think it's entirely composed of jews and white women fucking black men.

[Anonymous No.9077406]

>>9075944
How many Republicans are in your department?

[Anonymous No.9077458]

>"College makes me a critical thinking independent thinker!"
>even after going to college he doesn't have the critical thinking skills to realise that critical thinking simply involves questioning things in a rigorous way

wew, books before animals

>"I'm a critical thinking classical thinker who was educated in Greek and Latin, the languages of the two pinnacle civilisations on Earth!"
>"What, my smartphone signal is down! My life is shit! No, I don't care what Stephen Hawking has to say about black holes millions of miles away you R*ddit fuck! I'm going to a protest because that politician said that America has a better culture than other countries and is worth preserving. What a fascist!"

[Anonymous No.9077462]

>>9074937
Pretty accurate image, OP.
>>9074954
All I want to be, man.

[Anonymous No.9077468]

>>9075944

>Actually, the humanities teach students to think independently

This is satire, right? Some departmental joke?