/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8870055]

Is Western society dying?

[Anonymous No.8870233]

inshallah

[Anonymous No.8870239]

[Anonymous No.8870244]

>>8870055
kali yuga

[Anonymous No.8870248]

Everything has to come to an end. If it's not dying today, it will be dying at some point in the future.

[Anonymous No.8870251]

I'm an intellectual pessimist so yes

[Anonymous No.8870253]

>>8870055
yes and no desu

[Anonymous No.8870254]

No, all of industrial civilization is dying.

[Anonymous No.8870259]

Western civilization collapsed once before [Rome] but then it came back.

[Anonymous No.8870270]

Yes but it deserves it.

[Anonymous No.8870272]

Why are there people who think that Western civilization will never degenerate and die?

[Anonymous No.8870275]

>>8870270
define "deserves"

[Anonymous No.8870278]

It's already dead/zombie-mode. Capitalism killed it.

[Anonymous No.8870281]

>>8870272
Wishful thinking.

[Anonymous No.8870290]

>>8870272
Liberals buy into the meme that time's passing only brings progress and that progress is an inherently "good" thing. They labor under the delusion that we're constantly working towards utopia.
>>8870275
I look at the Germans who cannot celebrate a holiday tradition practiced for nearly three quarters of a millennium unless extreme security measures are present. I look at this and the German response is not to galvanize as a people to correct this but to sympathize with their own destroyers. People have gotten far too weak to defend themselves and the gutless only deserve death.

[Anonymous No.8870294]

>>8870270
> deserve
Ask me how I know you have autism

[Anonymous No.8870296]

>>8870290
This post made me feel bad :(

Yes, there are unforeseeable circumstances that mess up our plans, but choosing not to plan because of that, I think, is downright stupid.

[Anonymous No.8870302]

>>8870055
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise that no one has taken the opportunity to point out that Spengler predicted that a new Hitler would emerge to herald the beginning of the end of the West, and compare that prediction to the election of Trump, the most-called-Hitler candidate of all time.

But that would require knowledge of Spengler, so we have this thread instead.

[Anonymous No.8870306]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d3Bbc6HHRM

[Anonymous No.8870309]

>>8870302
>believing hitler was real and not a tool to suppress opponents
top pleb

[Anonymous No.8870329]

>>8870302
baba vanga said he would be the last president of the US

[Anonymous No.8870341]

>>8870329
Yeah, and Saint Januarius' blood failed to liquefy.

[Anonymous No.8870350]

>>8870309
Your retard impersonation needs work.

>>8869336

[Anonymous No.8870357]

>>8870055
Was it ever alive? It's neither living nor dying, you spooked fuck

Also, not literature

sage and report

[Anonymous No.8870359]

>>8870055
It's already dead.

[Anonymous No.8870362]

>>8870055
During the night you cannot tell the difference between a woman and a prostitute

Girls at the age of 12 are roaming the streets in high heels

Men are ridiculously feminized

Barely anyone is getting married and the divorce rates are insane

The young generations do not have children

Our corrupted politicians are importing illiterate third world trash that despises the West and wants us dead by the million

The majority of Europeans have been brainwashed into believing that multiculturalism is beneficial and wholeheartedly support the suicide

What was your question again?

[Anonymous No.8870365]

>>8870362
Long live capitalism!

[Anonymous No.8870367]

>>8870365
no, long live stupid liberals

[Anonymous No.8870374]

>>8870055
Societies don't have lives

[Anonymous No.8870376]

>>8870367

muh libruls boogeyman when all you described is the product of late stage capitalism

[Anonymous No.8870381]

>>8870367
Yeah they definitely aren't the products of the mode of production that produced them

Really makes you think about and appreciate Hitler and Lord Kek!

[Anonymous No.8870386]

>>8870376
There is nothing called "late stage capitalism".

Take your historical materialism and go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.8870389]

>>8870055
it depends on who you are and how much money you have

yes) if you are poor and intelligent but have no future

no) if you are rich and pseudo-intelligent

[Anonymous No.8870391]

>>8870386
>thinking 'late' implies that it's about to be over

[Anonymous No.8870394]

>>8870381
how is feminizing men and younger generations not having children inherently a product of capitalism?

It's a product of shitty marketing standards. Predatory marketing, spam, and trap threads on /b/

[Anonymous No.8870395]

>>8870365
more like long live illuminism

[Anonymous No.8870398]

>>8870362
Nice generalisations you got there

[Anonymous No.8870400]

Merely the contraptions that will give birth to the post-human.

Garbage time is running out, flesh based lifeforms will be deprecated before the end of the century.

[Anonymous No.8870402]

>>8870391
>words have only have the meaning I put into them because I am the lord and master of language

[Anonymous No.8870405]

>>8870394
Having below replacement fertility rate is a standard by-effect of advanced civilisation.

[Anonymous No.8870410]

>>8870394
>it's a product of shitty marketing standards. Predatory marketing, spam, and trap threads

All the products of late capitalism

[Anonymous No.8870414]

>>8870410
no, it's a sign that a society has good healthcare and education. It doesn't signify capitalism at all.

At least relatively good.

[Anonymous No.8870420]

>>8870414
>>8870410

brainfart

>>8870405

[Anonymous No.8870426]

>>8870414
>sex sells
>has nothin to do with capitalism

Really makes you poop out of your butthoolio

[Anonymous No.8870441]

>>8870426
yes, it's a marketing problem, not a capitalism problem

[Anonymous No.8870443]

>>8870426
It has something to do with capitalism if you think that the human instinct of wanting to have sex means capitalism.

[Anonymous No.8870445]

>>8870365
Your marxist bogeyman capitalism is not responsible for this situation, although it is a weakness that has been exploited.

[Anonymous No.8870447]

>>8870055
The planet is becoming less able to support us all, not just "the West".

The various cultures of the world that make up society, in whatever division you call for, change from year to year, decade to decade. They evolve continuously. Interconnectivity only speeds up the process. This process shouldn't be alarming to anyone. Get over it. We'll be going extinct soon enough thanks to reactionary conservative fucks anyway.

[Anonymous No.8870457]

>>8870441
marketing is capitalist propaganda

[Anonymous No.8870466]

>>8870447
>We'll be going extinct soon enough thanks to reactionary conservative fucks anyway.

Last time we almost went extinct it was because of Marxist-Leninists so don't hold your breath.

[Anonymous No.8870467]

yes it is. ever since the french revolution

thanks leftists

[Anonymous No.8870472]

>>8870467
>tfw the kali yuga intensifies

[Anonymous No.8870477]

>>8870447
how are reactionary conservatives making us go extinct?

[Anonymous No.8870481]

>>8870362
Um, that was all part of the plan, wasn't it?

If you want to be ultra-conservative, you should move East, right?

West = politically liberal, economically conservative.

East = politically conservative, economically liberal.

[Anonymous No.8870483]

>>8870477
it messes up communists' consequentialism. Reactionaries winning doesn't fit into their narrative

[Anonymous No.8870485]

>>8870466
Are you trying to blame the Cuba missile crisis on the Soviets?

You need a serious history book, anon.

[Anonymous No.8870489]

>>8870485

>nations don't have the right to defend themselves from nuclear war

[Anonymous No.8870491]

>>8870485
I am to blaming the people who put nuclear weapons within 500 miles of the U.S coast for trying to usher in a nuclear war?

Well, yes, indeed I am.

[Anonymous No.8870492]

>>8870447
>thanks to reactionary conservative fucks
Commies aren't known for being environmentalist, dumbfuck. And it's not like the so called green parties of the west actually struggle for a more sustainable way of life either, they just like to use environmentalist alarmism to gain power in the old system.
>Get over it.
>Haha, the culture which gave me the values I have is practically dead, get over it!
Take a look at the policies of your future Chinese overlords. If you don't like them and prefer your own western values you are a reactionary yourself.

[Anonymous No.8870494]

>>8870394
Feminine people are better consumers.

[Anonymous No.8870496]

>>8870491
Am I blaming*

[Anonymous No.8870508]

>>8870477
Climate change denialism, fueled by bourgie liberal-capitalist to their dumbass minions, to be more precise. But you're right, the power base is more to blame.

>>8870483
Communist thinkers do try to predict a lot, I've noticed. But the rightwingers do the same [Said in a Spengler thread]

t. anarchist

[Anonymous No.8870513]

>>8870362
What was the Weimar Republic?

[Anonymous No.8870518]

>>8870489
>Nations don't have the right to defend themselves from nuclear war

See that? ^

[Anonymous No.8870519]

>>8870508
>Communist thinkers do try to predict a lot, I've noticed. But the rightwingers do the same [Said in a Spengler thread]

communist try to predict the end of history. Spengler was just describing the west's decline

[Anonymous No.8870530]

>>8870508
>Communist thinkers do try to predict a lot, I've noticed
They see dialectics as a sort of crystal ball. Every Marxist (but perhaps every Communist) fancies himself a grand prognosticator.

[Anonymous No.8870533]

>>8870055
Yes, Bob Dylan is the best literature we can produce.

>>8870259
Some cycles are short.
Other cycles are long.

But there is nothing that isn't part of a cycle
Siddhartha fucking delete urself

>>8870485
>Moving nuclear missiles within striking distance of the United States
I don't get it? Are you going to blame the fucking cuban monkies?

>>8870508
Climate change wasn't caused by humans.

[Anonymous No.8870544]

>>8870492
You sound like one of those too-far-gone hicks who can't be reasoned with.

Getting off fossil fuels in a timely manner would helped the situation. The Green parties have struggled for a more sustainable way of life. They have not gained power in any meaningful way

And yes, again, the culture that you hold your "values" in evolves. Read a book or two.

[Anonymous No.8870552]

>>8870544
>You sound like one of those too-far-gone hicks who can't be reasoned with.

what is with all the defeatism among leftists? "your opinions are too different"

>Read a book or two.
le read a book meme

[Anonymous No.8870553]

>>8870519
>Communist try to predict the future as maybe bright
>Spengler tries to predict the future as maybe bleak
Okay, who cares?

[Anonymous No.8870563]

>>8870552
>what is with all the defeatism among leftists?

Not to mention their obvious nihilism. It's the logical consequence of their philosophical and historical materialism.

If you believe that the only thing that matters in the world is matter, then you're not going to have a problem with genocides and other similar things.

[Anonymous No.8870566]

>>8870553
>Okay, who cares?

this guy apparently >>8870447

[Anonymous No.8870569]

>>8870533
>I don't get it?
The Pentagon and every fascist in the country wanted to escalate war with Russia. The killed Kennedy to fight their proxy war.
>Climate change wasn't caused by humans. And I listen to Rush Limbaugh religiously.

[Anonymous No.8870580]

>>8870569
No, Kennedy was killed because he was going to destroy the CIA.

[Anonymous No.8870585]

>>8870544
>And yes, again, the culture that you hold your "values" in evolves. Read a book or two.
>The inevitability of change means we should gladly accept each specific instance change and stop caring about the direction of your society.
There's something sick about those that fetishize change.

[Anonymous No.8870607]

>>8870055
No, the worst aspects of western sensibilities have become totally cancerous and continue to spread faster everyday. Western society dominates the whole world and the only real substantial resistance to it is pissed off Muslims.

[Anonymous No.8870608]

>>8870544
>Read a book or two.
Where do you think you are, sonny?
>You sound like one of those too-far-gone hicks who can't be reasoned with.
You sound like one of them bigoted urban folks who lost their touch with reality. Now you blame capitalism this, reactionaries that for the environmental problems we face. That's just a bunch of hogwash if you ask me. China was communist, the USSR was communist yet these were just as polluting and resource wasting as anybody else. The real problem stems from the industrialization, something you pinkos like to masturbate over.
>the culture that you hold your "values" in evolves
Reality does not evolve (not that quickly anyhow), truth does not change. I don't think ideas are really prone to evolution, they just don't work that way. Change is also not always for the better. Anyway, with a fatalistic attitude to ideas like that you should accept that we have "evolved" past the kind of bullshit you peddle.

[Anonymous No.8870631]

>>8870585
There's something sick about the man who cannot or will not move.

Be the water, my friend.

>>8870580
Stop and think now.

[Anonymous No.8870642]

>>8870607
this

[Anonymous No.8870645]

>>8870607
>and the only real substantial resistance to it is pissed off Muslims.

And their liberal apologists.

[Anonymous No.8870687]

>>8870508
Trump is the sole "reactionary" figure that denies man-made climate change. But he is still a shift away from rampant global capitalism (one half of the problem)...

FN, Nouvelle droite and reactionary think-tanks all integrate some kind of environmentalism.

Arktos is the only non-finnish publisher of the ecofascist Pentti Linkola for God's sake.

>Any dictatorship would be better than modern democracy. There cannot be so incompetent a dictator, that he would show more stupidity than a majority of the people. Best dictatorship would be one where lots of heads would roll and government would prevent any economical growth.

[Anonymous No.8870698]

>>8870608
>You sound like one of them bigoted urban folks who lost their touch with reality. Now you blame capitalism this, reactionaries that for the environmental problems we face. That's just a bunch of hogwash if you ask me. China was communist, the USSR was communist yet these were just as polluting and resource wasting as anybody else. The real problem stems from the industrialization, something you pinkos like to masturbate over.
Not who you're responding to but that's just stupid. Urbanism is the most environmentally sustainable lifestyle, if everyone went out into da woods there would be no more woods left.
Mao's China and the USSR never abolished market logic, production occurred on a profit basis but just for one monopoly [the state bureaucracy] administered by state planning agencies.
Every environmental issue we face today is ultimately a result of fiscal constraints [i.e. "we don't have de money to fix it"] not technological issues. The massive amount of investment necessary to change the global infrastructure and the long term commitment for a low rate of return ain't going to attract the amount of private money neccesary and governments are impotent to act.

>>8870645
And liberalism is the core unique western value, le contradiction face

[Anonymous No.8870703]

>>8870608
>sonny?
I'm an old woman
>them bigoted urban folks who lost their touch with reality.
I'm from a rural Christian conservative upbringing.
>China was communist, the USSR was communist
You DO need a book. Not written by liberal propagandists either.
>stems from the industrialization, something you pinkos like
I'm an anarchist, not a Luddite, realistic about the forces of industrialization. And I wonder why in the hell the actual conservatives don't rally around the Green party.

>Reality does not evolve (not that quickly anyhow)
>Makes a solid statement–Recants the following statement
Truth is that culture changes, you know it does. Lets try to steer it by some other means than markets and greed or some sect that communicates with a phony god.
There's nothing fatalistic about me either. We need to flow around the rocks, like I say here >>8870631

[Anonymous No.8870717]

>>8870703
>le old atheist liberal cat lady
I bet you're an English teacher too, how predictable

[Anonymous No.8870738]

>>8870717
No no no.
Le old atheist anarchist cat lady
Not an English teacher either.

[Anonymous No.8870754]

>>8870367
Capitalism is the direct result of liberalism

[Anonymous No.8870759]

>>8870698
>And liberalism is the core unique western value, le contradiction face

Except the people who defend Islamic terrorism are called liberals, but they really aren't.

You know, people like Glenn Greenwald and Reza Azlan.

[Anonymous No.8870792]

>>8870754
Other way around. Liberalism is a result of the bourgeoisie increasing their power economically at the expense of the nobility.

[Anonymous No.8870811]

>>8870055
Depends on what you mean by western society. The times of Britain and France being power-horses are long gone, the two countries most importantly involved with the spread of "modern" society.
The death of the nuclear family, the dismal state of our education, the drifting away from religion, all of these things contributed to a environment that is decidedly different than that of 100 years ago.
Depending on what you define as "western society", this could mean we're leaving behind a stuffy, traditionalist past and obtaining new rights and an all around better environment for our citizens. That's not my personal opinion but that's what you'll hear often. I think we're in a precarious position, but it would take a lot of work to change anything.

[Anonymous No.8870821]

>>8870703
>And I wonder why in the hell the actual conservatives don't rally around the Green party.
Because the green party comes with a bundle of shit packaged with the few good things they offer.
>I'm an old woman
>I'm from a rural Christian conservative upbringing.
Either you're funposting or we are reddit now.

[Anonymous No.8870846]

>>8870703
sup butters

[Anonymous No.8870857]

>>8870821
I'm probably still the most genuine poster on /lit/
My story hasn't changed, I reveal this about myself often enough. Been coming here since my late thirties, I'm 44 now.

The Greens are hippies, but the Christians conservatives need to learn how to get along with them.

>>8870846
Hi kid.

[Anonymous No.8870866]

It's dead already, it ended around 1900. Spengler was an Idiot and his methodology is awful, but he did turn out to be basically in the right.

[Anonymous No.8870881]

>>8870857
So how come you're an anarchist? It's a very immature political position.

[Anonymous No.8870907]

>>8870881
It's something to strive for, and no, it's the most mature of political positions. It demands a massive amount of people grow the fuck up and learn the way things are. It seems as impossible to me now as when the young conservative me first heard of it. Back then I reasoned that armed thugs would come along and reestablish their monarchy, ala Mad Max, now I know people are perfectly capable of avoiding all that and maturing. Educating their communities, tending to their own infrastructures, living in peace. I just doubt we will learn to do this in time

[Anonymous No.8870931]

>>8870907
how do you educate low IQ violent people (blacks)?

[Anonymous No.8870936]

>>8870907
>tfw I am a monarchist
Would not a stronger society be preferable? With a decentralized kingdom or empire you would still have the same sense of community and personal responsibility but with the added benefit of not getting dicked by any competing hierarchical society.

[Anonymous No.8870940]

>>8870931
Increase their intelligence by education.

IQ is pretty much a meme, a bit of preparation alone will get you a ten point difference and half of the questions are cultural nonsense.

[Anonymous No.8870948]

>>8870940
IQ is 70% genetical.

It may be a meme but is the best way we have to measure people now.

also, blacks have the warrior gene, which is not a meme.

[Anonymous No.8870966]

>>8870936
How does a monarchy deal with a despot?

[Anonymous No.8870979]

>>8870936
How is a kingdom decentralized?
No gods no masters. Just families, communities, co-workers, occasional councils and local trials. "laws" to suit the occasion and all that.

>>8870931
Removing classism, the black community would elevate themselves, as similarly happened in the Harlem Renascence, their culture would change just like anyone everyone else's