/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8843177]

>yfw you realize that religious/spiritual scriptures are the most powerful literature in all of humankind

[Anonymous No.8843183]

>>8843177
I mean yeah, you don't start a religion without your message being powerful

[Anonymous No.8843186]

>>8843177
Sasha Grey's ass is ten times more powerful desu. Moves the soul

[Anonymous No.8843193]

>>8843177
I feel that writing about religious/spiritual writing is more powerful than the religious writing itself because it becomes unpacked, examined, and measured but now that I've typed that I feel slightly autistic

[Anonymous No.8843202]

>>8843186

Pretty much this.
Religion can't beat the temptations of the flesh.
You'll try, but you'll fail.

[Anonymous No.8843206]

>>8843202
hey get this, that's what catholicism is all about :^)

[Anonymous No.8843215]

>>8843177
>gf sees a picture of sasha grey
>thinks she looks pretty
>finds out she is a pornstar that is an """"""intellectual""""""
>tells me she has a new favorite pornstar
>suggests we watch her movies as a "couple thing"
>Pick movie at random
>she is near puking saliva all over some guy and gagging while getting sodomized by a 10 inch black guy with the word "whore" written across her forehead in mascara
>make some comment like "you trying to tell me something" or "you want to get fucked in the ass babe" or something
>she never mentions porn again

[Anonymous No.8843216]

literature is not "in humankind"

[Anonymous No.8843218]

>>8843193

Which religion is the most exploitable to make someone do something out of text-based rules?

[Anonymous No.8843219]

>>8843215
wtf I hate porn now

[Anonymous No.8843220]

>>8843215
Boring gf.

[Anonymous No.8843221]

>>8843216
I've never read any xeno-lit or even animal lit...

[Anonymous No.8843222]

>>8843218
google dispensationalism

cherrypicking the bible can justify any behavior, especially if you play fast and loose with translations.

[Anonymous No.8843223]

>>8843218
Physics

[Anonymous No.8843226]

>>8843215
>written across her forehead in mascara
>written in mascara
I realize this is possible, but it's more likely you're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.8843227]

>>8843215
>>8843220

This.
Fuck this prudish bitch.

[Anonymous No.8843230]

>>8843226
it could have been a charcoal pencil, but it definitely was not a crayola marker

[Anonymous No.8843233]

>>8843206
catholicism couldn't beat the temptation of all that altar boy ass

[Anonymous No.8843243]

>>8843218
this
>>8843222
>cherrypicking the bible

don't underestimate people's tendency to not know what they're talking about

[Anonymous No.8843283]

>tfw you realise 4chan's ironic religiosity in response to fedora atheism has lost its irony and is here to stay

[Anonymous No.8843292]

>>8843230
or it was eyeliner

[Anonymous No.8843295]

>>8843292
I accept this, there are many examples on the motherless home page

[Anonymous No.8843304]

>>8843283
>ironic religiosity in response to fedora atheism
you are brand new

[Anonymous No.8843310]

>>8843222
I started the thread because I was thinking about how many sects and systems spawned and deviated from the original word and intent of the message.

And how many people it still controls today.

[Anonymous No.8843320]

>>8843310
>implying that people werent seeking existential justification during pre-history and in pre-literate society.

[Anonymous No.8843331]

>>8843304
That's exactly what it was. This site is counterculture for its own sake and atheism has always been a visible part of internet culture.

[Anonymous No.8843341]

>>8843320

How far back can you trace the primordial truth?

Do you think the Golden Rule is one of those truths?

[Anonymous No.8843345]

>>8843283

>ironic religiosity in response to fedora atheism

if you truly think that is the only motivation here then you really need to lurk more.

[Anonymous No.8843351]

>>8843320
I don't doubt that cavemen had their own belief systems

[Anonymous No.8843357]

>>8843345
>lurk more

Translation: I disagree but I can't articulate why.

[Anonymous No.8843361]

>>8843331

>This site is counterculture for its own sake

so there is no actual message or dictum that anyone is earnestly pushing here. not even on /pol/. it's all merely "counterculture for its own sake."

l m a o
literally get a clue

[Anonymous No.8843364]

>>8843351
Pic related, Chauvet Bear Skull

>>8843341
Burial of the dead with grave goods seems like a pretty good indicator, and thats 150k years, seems to indicate that there may be a truth sensed about continued metaphysical existence, or at least respect for "he who was"

As for "civilized religion", we see lots of animals at Gobekli Tepe, with seems to indicate a truth that one must be thankful for the bounty of the earth, and fearful of what it can do to you.

[Anonymous No.8843370]

>>8843283
I think it was only partly ironic. I know /lit/'s interest in religion has come off as pretty sincere a lot of the time.

[Anonymous No.8843372]

>>8843357
see
>>8843361

if you think that places like /pol/ or /r9k/ etc are one big performative act in counterculture just for the sheer love of being "difficult" and the posters there truly don't believe what they are espousing then you are genuinely clueless.

fuck off already, reddit.

[Anonymous No.8843374]

>>8843177

I agree. Scriptures represent paragons of virtue to their fullest in their characters, as well as vices and evils. They represent triumph and sadness through fable. Allegory, or appeal to one's morality, is the strongest way in which poignance is evoked.

It's the same reason Marvel movies do so well. Except those still suck and can't really capture purity of virtue like scripture can. Also appeal to broad audience has really killed movie quality in the last decade or so.

[Anonymous No.8843383]

>>8843361
Yes that's exactly it. Mainstream youth culture is veguely left wing, progressive, unreligious. The users of this site define themselves against that.

See how /pol/ users haven't really known what to do with themselves since Trump won. They're not used to winning.

[Anonymous No.8843389]

>>8843372
I'm not saying it's not sincere (my original point stated the opposite). I'm saying it began as an act of rebellion and desire to be different from their peers. The views espoused are only whta they are because the accepted norm was to champion the opposite.

[Anonymous No.8843392]

>>8843364
>Chauvet Bear Skull
ancestral bear cult ftw

[Anonymous No.8843394]

>>8843331
you treating this site as a singular collective like reddit rather than a group of anonymous voices is telling of your point of reference
bear in mind this is a literature board that dabbles heavily in philosophy and history, religion is going to be a common topic.
also bear in mind that it is in fact an anonymous forum full of lonely, unfulfilled, knowledgeable, people. It is an environment conducive to sincerity, and not everyone is so knee-jerkingly offput from religion as you and your smug buddies. Many people are ready and willing to accept that science is retrospective and therefore insufficient

[Anonymous No.8843399]

>>8843383

>Yes that's exactly it.

but that's wrong, you dullard. approaching 4chan as though it's a homogeneous entity that you have all worked out and neatly parsed is the very first step in tacitly announcing to others that you know precisely fuck all about it.

how long have you been lurking here, for real?

[Anonymous No.8843401]

>>8843177
That's because they didn't have to deal with entropy. The classical artists had something to integrate themselves into, thus a tangible entity from which to base their art form.

Is Modern Writers, everyone since Eliot, Melville being the last classicist writer in this regard, has been struggling with self integration amidst a collective integration. Gaddis believes this is found in the self within our process of disintegration, but who knows?

[Anonymous No.8843404]

>>8843401
>Collective integration
*collective disintegration

Whoops

[Anonymous No.8843413]

>>8843177
only the Bible desu

[Anonymous No.8843417]

>>8843283
>tfw you realize there are still fedoras on this site
>tfw you realize no fedora to date has ever given a valid argument for his beliefs
>tfw you realize fedoras lose every single argument on this site about religion

[Anonymous No.8843443]

>>8843389
Are you actually trying to suggest that fedora atheism is the "norm" in society, and rebelling against it is the counter-culture?

>The Pew Religious Landscape survey reported that as of 2014, 22.8% of the U.S. population is religiously unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the U.S. population. The 2014 General Social Survey reported that 21% of Americans had no religion with 3% being atheist and 5% being agnostic.

[Anonymous No.8843458]

>>8843399
It should go without saying that when I refer to 4chan users as whole I mean the prevailing, majority opinion. Within any social group there are trends and there are outliers. In a previous comment I implied that the site in general was vaguely right wing, conservative and theist (anti-atheist would be more precise). Do you disagree with that assessment? If so, how better would you charecterise it?

All groups are made up of unique individuals. They still form general trends.

[Anonymous No.8843461]

>>8843443
I'm trying to suggest that fedora atheism is the norm in youth internet culture.

[Anonymous No.8843468]

>>8843458
>how better would you charecterise it?
by its monthly tendencies

[Anonymous No.8843479]

>>8843461
I can only speak for myself, but I've been lurking 4chan for 10 years and I only just recently began to reject the nihilistic philosophies that dominated my youth. It has nothing to do with being counter-culture or rebelling against anyone, nor did my initial drift towards nihilism. It's simply a matter of maturing, and gaining new insights through living life, reading, and observing.

[Anonymous No.8843500]

>>8843443
>22.8% religiously unaffiliated
>3.1% atheist
>4% agnostic
>15.7% are religiously unaffiliated, but neither atheistic nor agnostic

Who else thinks that the 15.7% are the real, true cancer in the world?

[Anonymous No.8843505]

>>8843364

So out of fear of death or uncertainty we have created entire worlds of beliefs and ideas. People have this sense of heaven and hell in their mind. And someone is keeping tabs on our actions and those actions have penalties or rewards.

It's scary what happens if we take things for granted and not examine beliefs critically.

[Anonymous No.8843508]

>>8843479
>10 years
Wow

[Anonymous No.8843518]

>>8843392
I'll join

[Anonymous No.8843519]

>>8843500
>15.7% don't know what words mean and would sooner die than examine their own opinions

100% cancer, you are correct

[Anonymous No.8843693]

>>8843215
All girlfriends should aspire to give as good head as Sasha.

[Anonymous No.8843706]

>>8843233
The fuck are you doing posting the video game artiste Molyneux in that context?

[Anonymous No.8844647]

>>8843177
You realize this and your face turns to XXX porn?
Okay, weird.

>>8843183
No no. You don't get to start a religion without a lot of power behind it. IE fools to convert and enforce.

>>8843215
Aww.

[Anonymous No.8846248]

>>8843693

This would be funnier if it weren't so sadly (probably) true.

[Anonymous No.8846355]

Does anybody have that image with the first six pages of The Juliette Society?

[Anonymous No.8846548]

>>8843177
I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness.

[Anonymous No.8846639]

I unironically think mysticism is endgame for humanity.

[Anonymous No.8846642]

>>8843177
You only think so because a few decades of Hollywood going DOETH SAYETH YE LORD epic music etc.

Approached cold these texts are pure shit.

[Anonymous No.8846665]

>>8843693
>this beer tastes like piss
>it's not bad

[Anonymous No.8846680]

Christianity is only concerned with personal salvation to become part of a nebulous afterlife for which no evidence exists, and for which this world needs to be sacrificed, which is best expressed in the way early christians like Martin of Tours refused to fight enemies of their nations, insofar killing in this world could cost them heaven

When Jesus says "if they take your coat, let them have your shirt as well", "do not resist evil", "I have come to turn a man against his own household", "if you don't hate your self and your own family you can't follow me", "love your enemies, pray for your persecutors", "the meek will inherit the Earth", "those that wanna die will live", "blessed are those the persecuted, for they will be my Kingdom", "do not save treasures for tomorrow", "carry your cross so that you can receive eternal reward", "Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you'll have treasure in heaven", "it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for the rich to enter Heaven", "Woe to you who are well fed, Woe to you who laugh, for you will mourn and weep"...

... he is not kidding, or meaning the opposite, but actually setting down a morality where the world is a lie and only the afterlife is the real deal, so destroying your life in this world, "carrying your cross" as he says, is completely logical

[Anonymous No.8846688]

Only a person that does not actually believe in the Heaven for the persecuted, the meek, and the martyred would actually re-interpret Christianity as a cult of earthly power which declares "the strong shall inherit the Earth", "my kingdom is of this world" and "you must destroy the enemies of your nation"

Only some one that just wanna use Christianity as an empty shell devoid of any true religious promises would claim that Paul and Peter misinterpreted Jesus when they submitted to their enemies and died to them while praying for them, instead of fighting the romans back and establishing a crusader kingdom, thing that one would expect them to do if Jesus meant "be a fighter and impose your will on your enemies" when he said "love your enemies and lend all they need to them without expecting anything in return"

But using Christianity as a shell devoid of any religious promises simply allows its poisonous morality to survive into the next generation.

You can tell your children that Jesus wanted them to be earthly warriors because "I didn't come to bring peace", but you can't stop them from reading the rest of the paragraph and realizing what Jesus wanted is for them to put christian morality above the good-being of their own families.

[Anonymous No.8846695]

You can tell your children that Jesus wanted them to be earthly warriors because "Buy a sword", but you can't stop them from reading the next chapter and realizing that Jesus stopped Peter from using the sword to fight and defeat the romans, and reprimanded him for misunderstanding, all while asking him to carry his own cross (Peter, fully realizing that Jesus meant all the stuff about embracing death and his kingdom was not of this world, that angelic chariots were not going to slay his enemies and bring him victory, realized he was doomed, and would then deny Jesus 3 times)

You can tell your children that Jesus wanted them to be earthly warriors because ""Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces", but you can't stop them from reading the rest of the paragraph and realizing that Jesus was asking them, not to destroy their enemies, but to not put in risk their own moral position by criticizing others. You may want them to believe that Jesus, in the middle of a speech about not judging other people and sharing, suddenly decided that speak against the muslims that didn't even exist back then!

That is not going to fly.

Sooner or later, your "strict catholic crusader" state will be reformed into liberalism, because the Gospel will still exist, because your children, like Peter, will realize that Jesus meant it when he said "you are to be persecuted and martyred for me", that Jesus didn't say "you will live in a stable and powerful civilization, free of oppresion and death, thanks to me".

[Anonymous No.8846767]

>>8846695
>Sooner or later, your "strict catholic crusader" state will be reformed into liberalism, because the Gospel will still exist, because your children, like Peter, will realize that Jesus meant it when he said "you are to be persecuted and martyred for me", that Jesus didn't say "you will live in a stable and powerful civilization, free of oppresion and death, thanks to me".

people have been bullshitting what you talked about for centuries in a manner that allowed it to coexist with stable and powerful civilizations desu

it's not like "oh man this value system's really subversive to the integrity of our society and conflicts with our best interests, we should definitely completely embrace it", it's more like

"part of this shit sounds really good, let's have this interpretation of it and not care about the verisimilitude of our actions desu"

Christianity's persistence is because of how bad people are at being Christian

but what do I know I'm an unread brainlet so fuck it

[Anonymous No.8846791]

>>8846695
>>8846680
>>8846688
This is pretty accurate. "My kingdom is not of this world."

[Anonymous No.8847827]

>>8843479
I feel similar
I think the recent change is less an effort to be "edgy" and more people re-adjusting their childhood beliefs.

personally I still don't care much for the big organized religions but I appreciate them more even if my own spiritual ideas are not in line.

as for Christianity in particular, I have a deep admiration for what has blossomed forth from it, and feel whatever its flaws it is a bulwark against things far worse.

[Anonymous No.8847834]

>>8846680
>>8846688
>>8846695
>defending life-denialism

Buddhism is much more healthy
I hope it comes to synthesize with the more robust aspects of Christianity in the West.

I imagine a concerned effort of Buddhist evangelism or at least awareness on a wide scale would take the West by storm, its already growing rapidly purely by word of mouth and low level diffusion.

[Anonymous No.8847917]

>>8846680
>>8846688
>>8846695
Who are you responding to? Is this a copypasta? I agree with some things others you have entirely gotten wrong.

[Anonymous No.8847921]

>>8847834
if Buddhism caught on it would be weaponized the same way Jesus's teachings were.
The problem isn't the texts, the problem is the hearts of the people. People will always hate and always try to leverage that hate with anything that grants them power over the masses.
genuine teachings of genuine love will always be two steps behind because a person has to come to realize truth, often after falling subject to the pandering immediacy of untruth.

[Anonymous No.8847938]

>>8847921
In Christianity, at least, the idea is that God's grace can allow you to accept the teachings of Christ. Of course, this raises the question of whether any of us have free will.

[Anonymous No.8847952]

>>8847921
>if Buddhism caught on it would be weaponized the same way Jesus's teachings were.
violence and "westernization" are not my concerns with Christianity.

if anything with greater understanding of Buddhist philosophy I'd expect a different approach to violence in general, rather than a total revocation of it, look at Aum Shinrikyo for example.

[Anonymous No.8847959]

>>8847952
>westernization
weaponization
sorry

[Anonymous No.8847993]

>>8847921
You sound like a hippy.

[Anonymous No.8847997]

>>8843177
They really are. After graduating from my STEM degree I spent the next 3 years reading literature. Finally decided to pick the bible and the Gosples blew me away and led me to rediscover my faith.

My gf threatened to break up with me because she didn't want anything to do with "a more religious" me, but it was funny because I was reading Kierkegaard at the time and I felt like Abraham sacrificing his child and it gave me the resolve to follow the path I was on.

[Anonymous No.8848010]

>>8847952
The east asians already weaponized buddhism. What do you think bushido is based on?

[Anonymous No.8848018]

>>8848010
yes and I have no issue with that, in fact I'm in favour of it.

if faith doesn't interact with all aspects of life, even the grimy parts, then its worth nothing.

its one of many reasons why Christianity is having a major crisis of faith right now, its become hollow.