/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8827651]

>read Tolkien as a kid
>it's an epic quest
>read Tolkien as an adult
>it's Catholicism with elves and dwarfs


how do I unsee all the cathocuck content? h-help

[Anonymous No.8827658]

>being a retarded faggot who doesn't like Catholicism

[Anonymous No.8827662]

>>8827658
it's papists who are faggots (pederasts) and retards, as they believe in all the bullshit Rome spews

>b-but my literary catholic geniuses

[Anonymous No.8827680]

>>8827651
To reduce Tolkein's universe to Catholicism is lazy oversimplification at best.
Also >>>/sffg/

[Anonymous No.8827712]

>>8827651
Take off your fedora and shave your neckbeard. If you're unwilling to do that there are many hacks who aped Tolkien without understanding his works that will jerk your narcissism off.

[Anonymous No.8827879]

>>8827651
Always keep in mind its William Morris fanfic.

I don't see anything especially Catholic about LoTR.

[Anonymous No.8828090]

>>8827651
Tried to read as an adult, realise Samwise isn't an loyal friend but a disgusting servile classcuck. The baggins' are le quirky eccentrics the only half likeable characters in the fellowship are legolas and gimli

[Anonymous No.8828193]

>>8827879
Narnia is also serious Morris fanfic. Go read the originals, folks. Morris and MacDonald are the master granddaddies of fantasy.

[Anonymous No.8828251]

Sam is the best character.

[Anonymous No.8828954]

>>8827662

[Anonymous No.8829464]

>>8827662
An institution is only strong if it rejects everything that is not itself

The papacy is why Catholics have beautiful and interesting rites, histories, and traditions while protestants have the Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism

[Anonymous No.8829525]

>>8829464
>ignoring east orthodox
I wonder why...

[Anonymous No.8829548]

>>8827651
>mfw Tolkien is incredibly popular among muslims who fail to see the irony

[Anonymous No.8829633]

>>8829548
What's the irony exactly? A more traditionalist author like Tolkien seems like a much better fit than some degenerate libshit author.

[Anonymous No.8829750]

>>8829633
There are large comparisons to be made between the fight of man against orcs and between Europeans against Muslims.

Osgiliath, the city of two halfs divided by a great river, is very comparable to Constantinople; Minas Tirith, the "gateway" city built into the mountain, likewise to Vienna. Of course, the massive charge of the Rohirrim at Pelenor fields while Minas Tirith is being besieged is also startlingly similar to the incredibly large cavalry charge of the Polish to relieve Vienna in 1683.

It's pretty undeniable that the Catholic resistance to the Muslim invasion of Europe was a big influence on Tolkien's ideas for the great war between the men of the west, and the orcs of the east, coming out from their arid lands. Which is why it's funny that Muslims are so blind to Tolkien essentially regarding them as orcs.

[Anonymous No.8829778]

>>8828954

How is god different from the flying spaghetti monster?

[Anonymous No.8829806]

>>8828954
if i believe in god can i be as cool as u someday?

[Anonymous No.8829879]

>>8829750
I don't know, that seems like a post-structuralist interpretation that Tolkien never really intend for. In fact, I think that says much more about your view of muslims than of Tolkien's work. Was he inspired by the history of Christianity? Certainly. Did the orcs symbolise muslims? I very much doubt that.

[Anonymous No.8830631]

>>8829750
This guy gets it.

[Anonymous No.8830651]

Pic rel8ed = u rite now.

[Anonymous No.8830655]

>>8829879
kek, what is post-structuralist in trying to interpret author's intent by perceiving some parallels between inbook events and some historical events?

[Anonymous No.8830674]

>>8829750
orcs rather symbolize workers and masses that come into politics very loudly in XX century (national socialism, communism). Tolkien is afraid of the changing nature of capitalism and modernization. Btw sauron was a good guy

[Anonymous No.8830780]

>>8829750
>We were supposed to have reached a stage of civilization in which it might still be necessary to execute a criminal, but not to gloat, or to hang his wife and child by him while the orc-crowd hooted. The destruction of Germany, be it 100 times merited, is one of the most appalling world-catastrophes. Well, well,—you and I can do nothing about it. And that [should] be a measure of the amount of guilt that can justly be assumed to attach to any member of a country who is not a member of its actual Government. Well the first War of the Machines seems to be drawing to its final inconclusive chapter—leaving, alas, everyone the poorer, many bereaved or maimed and millions dead, and only one thing triumphant: the Machines.

>Urukhai is only a figure of speech. There are no genuine Uruks, that is folk made bad by the intention of their maker; and not many who are so corrupted as to be irredeemable (though I fear it must be admitted that there are human creatures that seem irredeemable short of a special miracle, and that there are probably abnormally many of such creatures in Deutschland and Nippon — but certainly these unhappy countries have no monopoly: I have met them, or thought so, in England's green and pleasant land).

[Anonymous No.8830816]

Embrace it.

[Anonymous No.8831788]

>>8829525
EO does the same thing, they just have different mechanisms (less effective ones imo).

[Anonymous No.8831816]

>>8827651
That's some low quality bait anon.

[Anonymous No.8831818]

I dropped the Trial when I realized it was a shitty version of Seinfeld.


I have no advice OP.

[Anonymous No.8831862]

>>8830651
>man at least if hell
>is full of flames its some place hot

What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.8831871]

>>8831818
>when I realized it was a shitty version of Seinfeld

[Anonymous No.8831876]

>>8828251
Thats a funny way to spell Faramir

[Anonymous No.8831995]

>>8829750
>Minas Tirith
>literally the White City

It's more like Belgrade, their names mean the same and are both located similarly.
Osgiliath is Constantinople, I'd say.

[Anonymous No.8832013]

>>8827651
you embrace it. The sense of epic and mysticism felt as a child came from God.

[Anonymous No.8832104]

>>8831876

He's good too.

[Anonymous No.8832307]

>>8831876
Funny way to spell Fingolfin

[Anonymous No.8832622]

>>8831995
Minas Tirith means Tower of Watch, pleb.

[Anonymous No.8832626]

>>8832307
That's a funny way to spell Tuor.

Fingolfin was a genius, sure, but he was a turbo Chad and held a grudge like a motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.8832844]

>>8827651
Once you see the Jesuit, you cannot unsee him.

>>8827712
>papists out to denude men of their masculine features and reduce them all to little boys
You can't make this shit up.

[Anonymous No.8833109]

>>8832626
>he was a turbo Chad
That's a good thing anon.

[Anonymous No.8835089]

>>8827658
>>8827712
>>8828954
>>8830651
>subscribing to Tolkien's traditionalist monarchist ideology
>not looking past the mythology to the core values independent of catholicuck spooks
>not valuing the worldbuilding aesthetic and the culture Tolkien created over the poorly written characters and the shitty plot

[Anonymous No.8835122]

>>8829633
Tolkien's traditionalism is his downfall. His belief is superior bloodlines and obvious symbolism of the wealthy repressing the rise of class consciousness is a blight on an otherwise good fantasy world. He looks upon the past with rose tinted goggles, reaping the fruits of modern life while fantasizing about an idyllic era that never truly existed. Sauron was a hero representing the disenfranchised "evil" underclass against the wealthy.

[Anonymous No.8835125]

>>8832307
>not picking the superior son of Finwe
shiggy diggy desu

>Then Fëanor laughed as one fey, and he cried: ‘None and none!
>What I have left behind I count now no loss; needless baggage on the
>road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and
>whine their way back to the cages of the Valar! Let the ships burn!’

[Anonymous No.8835132]

>>8835122
Marxism is a mental illness.

[Anonymous No.8835156]

>>8835132
>being this deep in the I D E O L O G Y

lmao @ ur life

You're literally opposing your own interests. Keep parroting that you're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire while the ultra rich laugh their asses off at you from their private jets.

The orcs in the books weren't mindless monsters like in the movies, they were just a different race in a segregated world.

[Anonymous No.8835165]

>>8835156
>You're literally opposing your own interests
>implying i'm not a capitalist

[Anonymous No.8835180]

>>8835165
>supporting an ideology that cripples your own social standing as well as that of 90%+ of society so others can exploit you

There aren't words for this level of retardation.

[Anonymous No.8835184]

>>8832626
>>8833109
Woops, I got Fingolfin and Feanor mixed up in my head.

Yeah, Fingolfin is fucking awesome, Feanor is the douche.

[Anonymous No.8835189]

>>8835180
nice reading comprehension
i'm the one doing the exploiting

[Anonymous No.8835213]

>>8835189
>i'm the one doing the exploiting
unless you're jewish, this probably isn't the case

[Anonymous No.8835218]

>>8835213
>learned helplessness
Sad!

[Anonymous No.8835342]

>>8835122
How do you think the wealthy became wealthy in the first place?

>people aren't superior, even if they succeed where others don't
lmao

how fucking stupid can you get

[Anonymous No.8835356]

>>8835156
>Keep parroting that you're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire
But that line is a Marxist bumper sticker platitude that Marxists exclusively parrot

[Anonymous No.8835358]

>>8835342
By being related to someone who lived on the island a bit closer to the magic fairy land?

[Anonymous No.8835425]

>>8835342
>social Darwinism

Lmao you can't possibly be serious

Those born into wealth and power have an easy road to riches, those born in the social underclasses are disadvantaged and can usually only hope to scratch out a living, especially in a feudal society like the one existing in Tolkien's world. Elitist bullshit is still alive and well today, but it was far worse in the past world Tolkien depicts.

[Anonymous No.8835430]

>>8835356
The Marxists have correctly diagnosed the problem, but the "workers utopia" solution is naive. Revisionism is needed before Marxism is ready to be applied in practice, yet it still miles ahead of existing systems.

[Anonymous No.8835444]

>>8835430
the real solutions are either anarcho primitivism or annihilating human existence. i prefer the second

[Anonymous No.8835458]

>>8829750
/pol/fags stop pretending that you read books, please, THE LORD OF THE RINGS AND RELATED WORKS ARE NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM ALLEGORY TOLKIEN HIMSELF SAID THIS REEEEEEEE. And even IF it was Middle-Easterners would be Easterlings not fucking Orcs, you dumb fucking shit.

[Anonymous No.8835463]

>>8835458
He just meant that it wasn't one fixed allegory. He was okay with people doing readings.

[Anonymous No.8835467]

>>8835425
>>8835425
>Those born into wealth and power
Let me stop you right there. Nice reading comprehension fuckwit, how did their predecessors get their wealth? By being better.


And I doubt you've even read Tolkien from your statements. There's glaring examples to the contrary such as Beregond.

[Anonymous No.8835475]

>>8835358
Numenor was a reward for the deeds of men in the First Age, it was earned, not given. Nice try.

[Anonymous No.8835487]

>>8835475
>Nice try
At what?

[Anonymous No.8835492]

>>8835487
Not much at all in truth. That sort of drivel is so commonplace it barely merits refuting.

[Anonymous No.8835497]

>>8835492
You refuted nothing.

[Anonymous No.8835513]

>>8835122
t. Ivan Ivanovich Ivanovski

Your shitty russian fanfic is gay.

[Anonymous No.8835514]

>>8835156
>Marxist calling others ideological

[Anonymous No.8835516]

>>8835497
Typical, rational debate breaks down into empty denial. Wow, it's so weird that the world doesn't take commie sentiments seriously.

[Anonymous No.8835522]

>>8835516
>alluding to rational claims instead of actually providing them
Sad!

[Anonymous No.8835533]

>>8835514
Marxism is the accurate description of class conditions. Therefore it's not ideological but scientific.

[Anonymous No.8835537]

>>8835522
>claims thing occurred
>point out it didn't in the plot
>LOLWHATAREYOUTALKINGABOUTNO

[Anonymous No.8835539]

>>8835537
What didn't happen in the plot that I claimed happened?

[Anonymous No.8835543]

>>8835539
Feel free to actually read the posts you've responded to.

[Anonymous No.8835545]

>>8835543
Thanks. Feel free to answer the questions asked in the post you're responding to.

[Anonymous No.8835558]

>>8835533

[Anonymous No.8835568]

>>8835558
You only think it's low quality because you have been trained by the bourgeoisie to think so.

[Anonymous No.8835572]

>>8835513
The idea was flawless, the execution was terrible. Needs to be done better to get the point across.

[Anonymous No.8835577]

>>8835572
They tried too early. If they hadn't been in dire need of manpower they could have killed as many people as was necessary to create a new man.

[Anonymous No.8835594]

>>8835467
>more fucking social Darwinism

You're embarrassing yourself at this point. Exploiting others and seizing capital for yourself is sociopathic greed. And the descendants of the people who initially seized control of resources/monetary value aren't inherently better than any other children, they're clean slates. Lamarckian evolution is a steaming pile of disproven bullshit. Tolkien believed in monarchy and aristocracy, and its a terrible precedent to set in fiction.

Traddies are scum.

[Anonymous No.8835599]

>>8835122
>unironically being a cultural Marxist

[Anonymous No.8835601]

>>8835594
>clean slates

[Anonymous No.8835615]

>>8835601

I love you Anand

[Anonymous No.8835737]

>>8829806
They'ren't ignoring him because of his lack of faith, they're ignoring him because he's an ass

[Anonymous No.8835742]

>>8827651
read the children of hurin, no heavyhanded father son holy ghost inserts. Still has the comfy racial/tribal war undertones and fun christian suicide struggles which are the best part of xtian lit/tolkien anyway.

[Anonymous No.8835853]

>>8835122
>Muh oppression

[Anonymous No.8837502]

>>8828193
at least this guy >>8827879 posted the full name am I supposed to put MacDonald into google and know exactly who your talking about?

[Anonymous No.8837583]

>>8835853
Like this image, saved it, googled for Prof Jordan Peterson, found his youtube.

"45 minutes on a single paragraph of Nietzsche's Beyond Good & Evil"

I'm a bit stunned just knowing that such a video exists. Looking forward to watching I think...

[Anonymous No.8838569]

>>8828954
But how is God different from the flying spaghetti monster?

[Anonymous No.8838575]

>>8829750
You're retarded. Leave

[Anonymous No.8838578]

>>8835853
>if I put neo in front of something it means it's bad

[Anonymous No.8838587]

actually, op, catholicism owns... what are you... some altright nerd?

[Anonymous No.8838604]

>>8835853

Something tells me he'd have a really dumb interpretation of the Neetzsch.

[Anonymous No.8838635]

>>8835594
>And the descendants of the people who initially seized control of resources/monetary value aren't inherently better than any other children, they're clean slates
Oh God mainstream ideology is so fucking insane

Engineering majors are generally not sociopaths, they're people who are decent at math and are concerned with material security (there is nothing wrong with wanting to have money for your family)

Thinking humans are clean slates is far more insane, especially because you recognize the existence of some traits of "human decency" that are lacking in sociopaths.
>everybody's the same unless they're mentally ill
>all neurological differences are explained by environment, genetics is unrelated, you can teach a dog calculus if you bring them up right

You're dumb

[Anonymous No.8838680]

>>8835594
I can almost hear the victimization in your voice. Nothing is more pathetic than condemning people for acting in accordance with the laws of nature.

[Anonymous No.8838692]

>>8835594
>cry social Darwinism
>cite Lamarck
you're not very bright are you

[Anonymous No.8838707]

>>8835594
I don't think you know what "Lamarckian evolution" is in the first place but regardless of that it is actually a real thing and it's called "punctuated equilibrium"

[Anonymous No.8838715]

>>8835594

>Exploiting others and seizing capital for yourself is sociopathic greed.

Pure ressentiment.

>(T)he problem with the other origin of the “good,” of the good man, as the person of ressentiment has thought it out for himself, demands some conclusion. It is not surprising that the lambs should bear a grudge against the great birds of prey, but that is no reason for blaming the great birds of prey for taking the little lambs. And when the lambs say among themselves, "These birds of prey are evil, and he who least resembles a bird of prey, who is rather its opposite, a lamb,—should he not be good?" then there is nothing to carp with in this ideal's establishment, though the birds of prey may regard it a little mockingly, and maybe say to themselves, "We bear no grudge against them, these good lambs, we even love them: nothing is tastier than a tender lamb."

>And the descendants of the people who initially seized control of resources/monetary value aren't inherently better than any other children, they're clean slates.
>Muh tabula rasa

>Tolkien believed in monarchy and aristocracy, and its a terrible precedent to set in fiction.

Yeah, show me that great classless literature bro.

>Traddies are scum.
>

[Anonymous No.8838728]

>>8835853
dude is a lolbertarian/cuckservative

he's one of those autismos who wont use someones pronouns, not because they think trannies are whack, but because its "not proper english"

[Anonymous No.8838734]

>>8835594
>monarchy is evil
Why? You still have aristocrats in democracy, except their ONLY function is to the exploit the common people, and if you look at the numbers in many ways society is worse off now than it was.

[Anonymous No.8838741]

>>8830651
know how i know this guy is just someone they found a picture of and then wrote something about.
cause he is wearing a fucking cross on his neck

[Anonymous No.8838746]

>>8838728
>person is mentally ill
>99.9% of the population should change every institution, language, law, etc.. to accommodate them and the government should subsidize their bodily mutilation
>guy says fuck that
>lol what a senile old fogy
ok

Peterson's argument has nothing to do with propriety and everything to do with legal consequences, btw.

[Anonymous No.8838757]

>>8827651
Tolkien himself said his story is not an allegory. Look up apophenia and realize you're dumb.

[Anonymous No.8838778]

>>8838757

>>8835463

[Anonymous No.8838789]

>>8838746
>mentally ill
spooky

[Anonymous No.8838807]

>>8838789
>man is ugly, stupid, and annoying
>wants me to call him a pretty princess
>I say no
spook that, faggo.

[Anonymous No.8838818]

>>8838807
>nyg nwnwa

[Anonymous No.8839176]

>>8835125
>tfw everyone thinks Feanor was a dick
>tfw he's actually the best character Tolkien ever wrote
>https://jonathansmcintosh.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/feanors-nietzscheanism-dionysianism/

[Anonymous No.8839199]

>read tolkien as a kid
>its too confusing
>read tolkien as an adult
>its the best novel ever written

[Anonymous No.8839253]

>>8835458
>TOLKIEN HIMSELF SAID THIS REEEEEEEE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

[Anonymous No.8839259]

>>8830651
He's wearing a cross you handicap

[Anonymous No.8839262]

>>8839253
That was Tolkien's exact point.

[Anonymous No.8839282]

>>8839253
Tolkien also said it was an implicitly "Catholic" universe and that's why he didn't write any kind of church or religion into the world he created.

[Anonymous No.8839289]

>>8838578
To be honest, that's what lefties did coining the "MUH NEOLIBERALISM" meme, for instance.
Using the neo- prefix in this case just adds another layer of irony.

[Anonymous No.8839302]

>>8839289
>if I put muh in front of something it means it's bad

[Anonymous No.8839467]

>>8827651
Read the Silmarillion.

[Anonymous No.8839555]

>>8827651
lotr describes a fight against the east and the west. tolkien was a prophet. the symbols aren't that hard to understand; on the contrary, they are quite obvious: orcs = arabs (deformed malevolent creatures), niggers = the uruk hai (evil yet physically superior), humans of rohan = eastern europe (primitive yet honorable), humans of gondor = westerners (they have no king and their home is falling apart - the west has spiritually died and has to be revitalized in order to survive), dwarves and elves depict 2 diametrically different, confronted perceptions of human life (that is why they hate each other): 1) man is a part of the nature (the holistic view at life, typical for ancient greece); it is the path of the wise, the path of the elves (they live in perfect synergy with nature) and 2) bacon's maxim "knowledge is power" that implies "stealing" from the earth - this is exactly what the dwarves do. i could interpret tolkien for ages but i'll stop here unless nobody is interested to discuss it further

[Anonymous No.8839561]

>>8839555
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.8839569]

>>8839561
you don't even have the decency to attack at least 1 point i made. kys faggot

[Anonymous No.8839595]

>>8835568

hahaha someone post that screenshot of marxist redditors plotting their 4chan psyop

[Anonymous No.8839619]

>>8835568
So it's high quality bait?

[Anonymous No.8840810]

>>8839555
Fake and gay

[Anonymous No.8841250]

>>8839253
That's faggotry, I'm a proponent of "Death of the Reader".

[Anonymous No.8841680]

>>8839619
the intrinsic quality of the bait is unrelated to anon's judgment of it

[Anonymous No.8842200]

>>8829778
Because the spaghetti monster is a monster and god is the idealization of everything positive in humanity.

[Anonymous No.8842392]

>>8829464
nice post, underrated reference, have a (You)

[Anonymous No.8844199]

>>8838578
Neoclassicism is cool
Neopets too

[Anonymous No.8844210]

>>8838789
If it is detrimental to their own well-being it is an illness

[Anonymous No.8844213]

>>8844210
you're not exactly lessening the spookiness

[Anonymous No.8844222]

>>8844213
It kind of is though

[Anonymous No.8844233]

>>8827651
I hope you're not serious, otherwise you might be suffering from idiocy, a rare disease.

[Anonymous No.8844320]

Catholicism is the most /lit/ religion. You don't understand literature if you don't understand catholicism

[Anonymous No.8844325]

>>8844320

[Anonymous No.8844347]

>>8844325
As great as all those Russians are, they're nearly all Orthodoxy has. Catholicism has a lot more great literature.

[Anonymous No.8844363]

>>8844325
orthodoxy has some wonderful stuff, but its dead. It's no longer being added to. The Catholic canon extends right up to the present day with authors like Tolkien, Percy, and O'Connor.

[Anonymous No.8844393]

>>8827658
get out papist scum

[Anonymous No.8844671]

>>8839555
You are presupposing Tolkiens intention on very scant evidence. This is the same thing Charles Manson did.

It's a high fantasy novel buddy, not some sort of prophecy of the end of the west or something.

[Anonymous No.8844799]

>>8844320
>>8844347
There are many times more Catholics though. And Orthodoxy is never paid any attention to in the West these days.