/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8815246]

>Gender is a social construct
Which writer started this meme?

[Anonymous No.8815256]

>>8815246
probably a dumb continental roastwhore feminist leftist cultural marxist Satanic Frankensteinian Computer-God Talmudic Frankist Lizardian illuminati African Judaic bluepilled and brainwashed socialist vegetarian liberal communist pedophile cardigan-wearing homosexual transvestite cross-dresser with a hatred for whiteness and masculinity.

Trust me on this, I'm redpilled

[Anonymous No.8815264]

>>8815256
t.tranny.

[Anonymous No.8815265]

>>8815256
jeez
what's the non-problematic gender label for being a whiny bitch?

[Anonymous No.8815266]

>>8815246
gender is pretty clearly a social construct

almost nothing--and nothing normative--follows from this

money is a social construct, it doesn't follow that you can choose the value of your currency, etc., you get the picture

[Anonymous No.8815267]

>>8815246

>gender is biologically determined
Which writer startex this meme?

[Anonymous No.8815272]

>>8815264
>>8815265
Bit of banter, lads

[Anonymous No.8815275]

>>8815267
>Which writer startex this meme?
>Being a man or a woman is a choice

[Anonymous No.8815288]

>>8815246
Gender Trouble by Butler is a good read.

[Anonymous No.8815365]

Foucault can be blamed for it

[Anonymous No.8815383]

Gender is a spectrum, I found out because I am a woman despite being "biologically" male. Just ignore idiots who can't understand this basic concept

[Anonymous No.8815393]

>>8815383
I am a kriptonian in the body of a human.
#socialoppression

[Anonymous No.8815412]

>>8815383
Do you mean that you are transgendered or do you mean that you are what pretty much everyone would call a woman but possess XY chroms?

[Anonymous No.8815413]

>>8815246
ITT: People confuse gender with sex. Without bothering to get informed about the basics of this gender theory, they dismiss it because it seems stupid at face value.

[Anonymous No.8815417]

>>8815412
You are replying to a troll, friend

[Anonymous No.8815420]

>>8815413
>Without bothering to get informed about the basics of this gender theory,
The split between gender and sex is pretty new and has no real basis

[Anonymous No.8815424]

>>8815420
>libcucks think they can recover from this

[Anonymous No.8815427]

>>8815246
Sex = Biological difference between males and females. (genitalia, chromosomes, hormones, brain structure, etc.)

Gender = societal differences created arbitrarily to distinguish the sexes based on their social function and social status.
("Blue is for males, pink is for females" or "Weakness is female, strength is male", "Makeup is for females, not wearing makeup is male." And so on. Gender roles are stupid.

[Anonymous No.8815433]

>>8815413
There's a large difference between confusing and knowing and denying. I'm well aware of what gender ideology is, but I simply do not believe it is correct and that gender is different from sex in the way they think it is.

[Anonymous No.8815437]

>>8815420
Lol no. It's always been there. Attempts to get people to push this to the mainstream is what's new. Your understanding of this is new. Real Feminists already knew this.

[Anonymous No.8815438]

Derrida, but he probably didn't mean it.

[Anonymous No.8815439]

>>8815433
If you think gender is the same as sex, you haven't understood feminism.

[Anonymous No.8815440]

>>8815413
>>8815427
>>8815437
>this is your brain on emotions rather than logic, science, and rationality

How's it feel to be retards?

[Anonymous No.8815441]

>>8815427
this desu

[Anonymous No.8815442]

>>8815437
>It's always been there.
Yeah sick people were considered sick back then.

[Anonymous No.8815445]

>>8815439
There's more valuable discourse in fucking Dr.Seuss books than in the entirety of feminist literature, you fucking mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.8815447]

>>8815383
If you think gender is a spectrum, you accept a gender polarity. The point of feminism was originally to abolish gender, not create new ones. That's where this new postmodern gender theory fails miserably. Giving Hydra more heads won't slay the beast.

[Anonymous No.8815450]

>>8815427
>arbitrarily

lolololol

[Anonymous No.8815456]

>>8815440
We are emotional beings. It only makes sense that we incorporate that fact into our logic.

[Anonymous No.8815459]

>>8815456
Women are emotional and thinks with their feels while men are rational and think with logic and science

No amount of liberal anti-white brainwashed can change that

[Anonymous No.8815466]

>>8815440
>"How's it feel?"
>saying I'm the emotional one when you're obviously pretty upset

It's ok if you disagree, just please be informed. If you're going to be an anti-feminist, know the proper anti-feminist arguments, not this emotional misinformation.

[Anonymous No.8815468]

>>8815466
Go back to the kitchen where you belong, sweetheart. Men are talking here, okay honey?

[Anonymous No.8815473]

>>8815440

How does it feel to have never read a fucking history book?

In the 18th century, Aristocrat men wore makeup and high heels.

Now If a guy did that he'd be called a fucking queer.

These are GENDER ROLES.

It doesn't change the fact that guys were still guys.

[Anonymous No.8815474]

>>8815468
I'm a male.

[Anonymous No.8815500]

>>8815427
Gender=/=Gender roles

[Anonymous No.8815503]

I think the most important claim to critique is the claim that gender (-identity) and (biological-) sex vary independently. I repeat; in-de-pend-ent-ly.

Which.
They.
Do.
Not.

I'd be very careful labeling anything as outright (as in 100.00%) "abstract" or "a construct" in this discussion without having massive backing on it.

I'll repeat what Jordan Peterson has stressed for months;

>"There’s not enough evidence to make the case that gender identity and biological sexuality are independently varying constructs. In fact, all the evidence suggests that they’re not independently varying constructs. I can tell you that transgender people make the same argument. They make the argument that a man can be born in a woman’s body and that’s actually an argument that specifies a biological linkage between gender identity and biological sex."

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.3786140/i-m-not-a-bigot-meet-the-u-of-t-prof-who-refuses-to-use-genderless-pronouns-1.3786144

[Anonymous No.8815514]

>>8815445
wow, enlighten me anon, which books on feminism have you read?

[Anonymous No.8815518]

>>8815420
Sex = dick or vag

Gender = skirts or slacks.

The former is biological. The latter is determined by culture.

[Anonymous No.8815524]

>>8815514
I don't read fantasy, kid

[Anonymous No.8815526]

>tfw you have a willy and you like having a willy

It's a good feel desu

[Anonymous No.8815552]

>>8815524
thanks, that was helpful u pseud

[Anonymous No.8815554]

>>8815440
Nice one, Sam Harris.

[Anonymous No.8815557]

>>8815524
>>8815514

[Anonymous No.8815563]

>>8815503
Gender dysphoria is a change in how the person identifies and wants to be perceived. It doesn't mean a male to female transgendered person automatically from birth likes "feminine" things. Had this same person been raised in a society where the roles of feminine and masculine were reversed, the dysphoria would still be there and likely accomodate for this.

But I appreciate an intelligent argument though I think I disagree. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.8815570]

>>8815524
>automatically knows which books are worth reading based on preconceived notions gotten from online videos of ranting young gamers

Give it a shot. When you try something new, you might learn something. Even if you're determined to disagree, it's important to know your enemy and know their argument (to make your own better).

[Anonymous No.8815582]

>>8815413
gender theory is sexist bullshit that says actions are gendered. it was made up by an idiot doctor who lead a hermaphrodite kid to kill himself

[Anonymous No.8815603]

>>8815473
what's your point?

the role of men didn't change regardless of what they wore, they were still the soldiers and primary breadwinners, women were still mothers and homemakers

gender roles are biologically conditioned because women give birth and men have greater upper body strength, among other differences

[Anonymous No.8815734]

>>8815246
Money something I think was his name, a hack psychologist.

[Anonymous No.8815748]

>>8815413
>People confuse gender with sex
But they're the exact same thing.

[Anonymous No.8815753]

>>8815473
>These are GENDER ROLES.
No, this is fashion.

[Anonymous No.8815826]

>>8815748
theory aside, in our current society men and women are treated vastly differently. their roles do have a biological basis but they have been wildly exaggerated. so the definitions of masculine and feminine now are not organic, so a biological woman will someitmes have her natural traits fall into the current definition of masculine, and a biological man will have his natural traits fall under the current definition of feminine. and when you are discriminated against for falling into the wrong box, which is not the same box that naturally corresponds to your chromosomes but was morphed from that into something else, it feels awful, and you feel you are the wrong sex, so you would rather be the other gender.

regardless of the theory i ended up diving into and potentially being wrong about, some people are more comfortable imitating the opposite sex and being severely discriminated against for it than they are being their given sex. which shows, i think, that their feelings must be pretty fucking intense.

[Anonymous No.8815863]

>>8815383
I know which spectrum you're on, m8

[Anonymous No.8815871]

>>8815826
So? Some people are mentally ill or physically messed up, what does that prove? Fashion as mentioned earlier is very fluid and the fashion of yesterday is faggy today and vice versa, it's not about personal taste but a fucked up sense of identity. You don't need to arbitrarily disconnect gender from sex to explain this, some men just got into their heads that they are women for example. Some women have high T levels and look kinda weird.

You said nothing which supports the notion that gender isn't the same as sex.

[Anonymous No.8815872]

>>8815256
>Cardigan wearing

But anon, I love my Cardigans.

[Anonymous No.8815945]

>>8815503
I knew you were Peterson (Peterson fan) from the in-de-pen-dent-ly
And.
The.
Spacing.

He is so theathrical, I love him.

[Anonymous No.8815996]

I just fuck anything that moves and has a smooth skin.

[Anonymous No.8816010]

>>8815996
That's a path that leads to you bleeding out on the prison shower floor.

[Anonymous No.8816019]

>>8815826
society should not be radically altered to the benefit of very few and the detriment of many

if you're a freak, that's too bad, but you'll just have to deal with it

[Anonymous No.8816055]

>>8815246

Butler, via a series of Hegelian readings of Foucault.

[Anonymous No.8816066]

>>8816010
fuck, that was ill-worded.

[Anonymous No.8816106]

>>8815246
https://youtu.be/_w0TOJspijA

[Anonymous No.8816245]

>>8815420
The two spirits (new term for an old gender) hijra galli and kathoey are all examples of non binary genders that have existed since antiquity.

[Anonymous No.8816252]

>>8815433
What about gender do you believe is biologically defined?

[Anonymous No.8816257]

(((they))) did

[Anonymous No.8816265]

>>8815459
The bulk of research rejects this hypothesis but you embrace it because you irrationally feel that it is true despite the data. Are you a woman?

[Anonymous No.8816269]

>>8815246
John Money

[Anonymous No.8816286]

>>8816019
I agree with the first statement but I don't see where the detriment to the many is.

[Anonymous No.8816295]

>>8815246
shakespeare

[Anonymous No.8816298]

>>8816257

get those fucking brackets out of here

[Anonymous No.8816302]

>>8815447
>Hasnt read cixous kristeva or butler
>>>/pol/ is that way kid. You shouldn't be on the lit board if you don't read

[Anonymous No.8816412]

>>8815518
The feminist opinion is that sex and gender are different and BOTH are socially constructed.

All these people in this thread defending feminist theory who clearly do not understand it and haven't read Butler. Which means you probably didn't do a shit degree, lucky fucks.

[Anonymous No.8816414]

>Every debate about gender on /lit/ and /hist/ is shit up because of le SJWs
>Nobody even tries to understand the difference between biological sex and cultural definition, even though they can easily work that into their favor
>A couple people mention Butler, but the rest just repeat the same "PENIS IS GUY VAGINA IS GIRL LALALALALA" or try to act like a radical feminist to piss of those people

[Anonymous No.8816432]

>>8815603
>what's my point

My point is that the men of that took part in gender roles that women now take part in. Aristocrats did not fight in wars, or do manual labor. They inherited their fortunes and invested the money, your argument does not apply to all men.

The way they acted was shaped by society, not biology.

The only thing shaped by biology is their genital organs and brain chemistry.

>>8815753
Fashion and gender roles go hand in hand dum dum

[Anonymous No.8816435]

>>8815246
John Money, the doctor who performed the first sex reassignment surgery. Go look up the case, it's absolutely horrifying.

[Anonymous No.8816484]

>>8816435
>Reimer case
Holy fuck this man was a psyco.Did he write some kind of diary or something?

[Anonymous No.8816499]

>>8816432
>The only thing shaped by biology is their genital organs and brain chemistry.
And hormone levels that pretty much determines men and women attitudes and attributes. Men did most manual job not because they decided it 3000 years ago. Men were just fitter to do these jobs. Also hormone levels influence behaviour quite a bit

[Anonymous No.8816500]

>>8816435
I remember the episode SVU they based off him lol

[Anonymous No.8816516]

>>8816499
Yes and know, there were civilizations that existed where the women did the field work etc., this can also be found in the animal kingdom.

I agree hormones effect behavior, but behavior is also largely determined on society.

[Anonymous No.8816524]

>>8816516
*yes and no

[Anonymous No.8816536]

>>8816516
>there were civilizations that existed where the women did the field work
Women always did field work.They just did fewer and usually spent more time at home. The only societies in which women became warriors/ the main source of workers was when there were way more women than men.Which also lead to polygamy. And even then women liking male stuff doesn't make them males.

[Anonymous No.8816538]

>>8816536

>even then women liking male stuff doesn't make them males

I agree. That' not what I'm arguing.

I am making examples that gender roles are largely dictated by society, something you seem to be agreeing with.

[Anonymous No.8816580]

>>8816538
>I am making examples that gender roles are largely dictated by society, something you seem to be agreeing with.
>largely dictated by society
The basis of society is tradition. So pretty much.But all societial roles have pretty deep biolocal roots.The separation between gender and sex is pretty stupid in my eyes

[Anonymous No.8816586]

>>8816499
>"because they decided it 3000 years ago"

The Global Men Council got together and agreed on gender roles? Even though different cultures had vastly different understandings and to this day we can't unanimously agree on what makes one a "real man"? These things were determined by the environment and "economy" of primitive man. When agriculture was just starting, women's contributions were great and her social standing was also great.

By the time there was a superabundance in food production and the beginnings of cities, women were subjugated because men, with their superior physical strength, could better protect these crops.

THESE THINGS CHANGE BASED ON THE SOCIAL, ECONOMIC, AND ENVIRONMENTAL STRUCTURES OF A SOCIETY.

By the time of the Industrial Revolution and the rise of capitalism, women were once again regaining their social standings, as they once again contributed to society as Workers, not just mothers.

Where modern feminism fails is in their failure to understand that true abolition of gender (the social contruct that says women are inferior and can only act inferiorly) can only come with a radical restructuring of society: socialism, communism/anarchism, Third Position, etc.

[Anonymous No.8816607]

unironically stirner

gender is a SPOOK motherfuckers!!

[Anonymous No.8816608]

>>8816586
>because they decided it 3000 years ago
You just skipped the fucking not before that quote. I pretty much agree wwith you, but women and men are also differently mentally. Which is alredy resulting in a division of work in which males mostly focus around trades and technical careers while women stick to more social jobs like teachig,nursing or translatting

[Anonymous No.8816636]

>>8815826

>their roles do have a biological basis but they have been wildly exaggerated. so the definitions of masculine and feminine now are not organic

We have no 'asocial' perspective from which to make this claim.

Tell me, what are the 'organic' definitions of 'masculine' and 'feminine'?

Claiming that they're 'exaggerated' or 'social constructs'/etc, does not absolve you of the onus to give us the 'true' definition.

[Anonymous No.8816644]

>>8816435
Interesting that before David killed himself his twin brother Brian, who did not undergo any reassignment surgery, also killed himself. Maybe their suicides had less to do with gender/sex and more to do with John Money. David was pretty much fucked before Money showed up, having your dick cut off in a botched circumcision will probably damage anyone.

[Anonymous No.8816654]

>>8816608
Women were the first to go to work in the factories. Men were generalists and women were specialists.

[Anonymous No.8816667]

>>8816245
Those are not western concepts and even if some people acknowledged the mentally ill in the past then what does that mean?

[Anonymous No.8816668]

>>8816644
Money seems like a weirdo and a psyco.The worst part is that my country gave him some laurettes.
>>8816654
>Women were the first to go to work in the factories
Because males were working in the guilds that were about to go extinct or were traders (at least in the cities). Then they moved to the factories+ the inmigration to the cities.Also lots of children worked at the first factories

[Anonymous No.8816671]

>>8816435
>when living as Brenda, Reimer did not identify as a girl. He was ostracized and bullied by peers, and neither frilly dresses (which he was forced to wear during frigid Winnipeg winters)[12] nor female hormones made him feel female. By the age of 13, Reimer was experiencing suicidal depression, and he told his parents he would take his own life if they made him see John Money again. Finally on March 14, 1980, Reimer's parents told him the truth about his gender reassignment, following advice from Reimer's endocrinologist and psychiatrist. At 14, having been informed of his past by his father, Reimer decided to assume a male gender identity, calling himself David. By 1987, Reimer had undergone treatment to reverse the reassignment, including testosterone injections, a double mastectomy, and two phalloplasty operations. On September 22, 1990, he married Jane Fontaine and became a stepfather to her three children.

Seems like evidence that gender is a social construct. Even with the physical attributes and upbringing of a woman Reiner still identified as a man.

[Anonymous No.8816686]

>>8816671

>Seems like evidence that gender is a social construct. Even with the physical attributes and upbringing of a woman Reiner still identified as a man.

How did you draw that conclusion when it's the fucking opposite?

He was brought up as a woman in every respect, yet he still identified as a man. Therefore, Reimer's gender can't have been social if his biological sex trumped his 'social' gender in the end.

[Anonymous No.8816719]

>>8815466
you're a libcuck faggot

[Anonymous No.8816733]

>>8816608
The mental differences between men and women exist, but not to the extent that one sex is "better" than another. Each specializes in their own field and it's a VERY blurry line, with tons of exceptions to this general rule of biology.

And let's also not forget the impact the environment has on genes, fetal development, upbringing, and all that.

[Anonymous No.8816746]

>>8816733
>but not to the extent that one sex is "better" than another
Both are statistically much better at certain different tasks, this is undeniable. There's a reason why football teams aren't mixed for example.

[Anonymous No.8816759]

>>8815256
truue

[Anonymous No.8816760]

>>8816719
>libcuck

No, I hate liberals. I'm a communist, not a classcuck xD

>faggot

Gay people are some of the most vicious people on the planet xD They take more hard drugs, are more susceptible to deadly disease, to getting killed/beaten up, get raped/do the raping in prison, are more likely to be suicidal, and atheistic...and yet in spite of all this, they still live longer than most people.

I fucking wish I was as tough as nails as most "faggots."

[Anonymous No.8816764]

>>8815267
God

[Anonymous No.8816774]

>>8816733
>The mental differences between men and women exist, but not to the extent that one sex is "better" than another. Each specializes in their own field and it's a VERY blurry line, with tons of exceptions to this general rule of biology.
In some cases the differences are huge even then women tend to get pretty bored and have a harder time in most technology oriented careers while are much better at socialazing.In the most developed countries in the world and with the highest parity like Norway the career choices are pretty steriotypical despite the Norweian goverment wasting millions of Euros encouraging women in fields like Physics or Engenieering

[Anonymous No.8816784]

>>8815473
>fashion = gender roles
libcucks everyone

[Anonymous No.8816787]

Sure. It's like saying style is a social construct. You still need the biological presence of a particular body type to have a particular style.

Why are people reductionist still? Isn't that the first thing they're supposed to expel in universities?

[Anonymous No.8816788]

>its a /lit/ argues about biology episode

[Anonymous No.8816794]

>>this is your brain on emotions rather than logic, science, and rationality

[Anonymous No.8816797]

>>8816432
Men and women have different gender roles because of biological differences. You know, like every other animal on Earth.

[Anonymous No.8816800]

>>8816671
It's called mental illness. It's not "evidence" of shit.

[Anonymous No.8816806]

>>8816774
Well, it takes more than a single generation for all these social constructs and cultural relics to fade away. It's going to take time to know for sure what the potential of women is in these fields. Seeing as there's no hard evidence (really just anecdotal guesswork) that they intrinsically suck at STEM fields, it makes sense to want to make it more open for them. Men have been pretty good at communicating, literature, poetry, giving speeches, understanding history and philosophy etc. It wouldn't make much sense to say that men can do both these things while women are only good for one. Remember, their liberation was only like, a blink of an eye ago from a historical standpoint.

[Anonymous No.8816807]

>>8816787
>implying reductionism is wrong in basic biology
Just because you made up a name for it doesn't disprove it, retard

[Anonymous No.8816817]

>>8816806
Holy shit if women were so fucking great at these things THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The most gaping hole in feminist logic is that there is a "patriarchy" that wants to oppress women. They don't give any reasons, they can't trace the history of the patriarchy, they just explain away everything by "oppressive society". If women could be powerful, they would have taken power. If women could be creative, they would have created lots of great art. If it was feasible to get women to contribute more to society you bet your ass men would let them contribute. But they didn't, they don't, and they never will.

[Anonymous No.8816823]

>>8816806
They have been doing this since the 70's and things are getting "worse" as more women are joining typical women proffession than ever. Do you know which country has the most women in engenieering or computer science? Bangladesh were women rights are nonexistant. I am not saying that women are bad at these fields. They are just worse on average and they dn't have much interest in these fields. The drop out of women in these degrees are huge as well

[Anonymous No.8816848]

"Encouraging" women to do male-oriented jobs is going to be the downfall of the West. The feminization of science and art WILL cause cultural stagnation. Pic related.

[Anonymous No.8816864]

>>8816817
So...Women and Black people are inferior? Hm...

The thing about this "patriarchy" isn't a conspiracy that there's a conscious effort to suppress women. No. It's a largely unconscious understanding we all have, based on societal forces and economic relationships spanning hundreds of thousands of years. Women were not always oppressed and they will not always be oppressed. Their oppression isn't rooted in Evil Male Overlords, but in a culture of paternalistic love for women. It's the best of intentions as well as the worst of domestic abusers and rapists that have kept women in their place. It's fellow women who have internalized their place in society which have prevented other women from advancing, or fighting wars, or whatever else.

[Anonymous No.8816876]

>>8816302
Can someone explain this. I agree with what the other anon says and have read Butler.

[Anonymous No.8816883]

>>8816864
>Internalize oppression
This fucking meme again. What if I tell you that most women are actually ok with their status? Women identifying as feminists is decreasing and most surveys show that most women don't believe in your boogey man

[Anonymous No.8816891]

>>8816864
>So...Women and Black people are inferior? Hm...
Correct. But I never said anything about black people. Are we jumping to conclusions?
>The thing about this "patriarchy" isn't a conspiracy that there's a conscious effort to suppress women. No. It's a largely unconscious understanding we all have, based on societal forces and economic relationships spanning hundreds of thousands of years. Women were not always oppressed and they will not always be oppressed. Their oppression isn't rooted in Evil Male Overlords, but in a culture of paternalistic love for women. It's the best of intentions as well as the worst of domestic abusers and rapists that have kept women in their place. It's fellow women who have internalized their place in society which have prevented other women from advancing, or fighting wars, or whatever else.
This is exactly the hand-waving bullshit I'm talking about. I'll try to keep it simple, as you are obviously indoctrinated.

First, you do not explain what "societal forces and economic relationships" that cause the "patriarchy". I can explain what causes gender roles: biology. Think of a hunter-gatherer society. The women biologically cannot hunt. They make babies, so they have to stay home, raise the children, and pick berries. The men will go out to hunt, and so they need to be more intelligent and creative to survive. Women need to be good at socializing and making peace with others. These roles are fundamentally the same in every human society, no matter how asbtracted the postmodern world is.

"Paternalistic love" is a simple explanation (and honestly reeks of daddy issues). Women and men both have unique psychosexual predilications that make mating different for them. Women are passive and weak because they are the ones valuable, they are the ones chased after and prized. It's not "internalization", another meaningless buzzword. It's nature. Even now, women exist in their natural places but go out of them and become aggressive due to feminist propoganda. This is a luxury of the modern world. If times get hard and people have to fight to survive, gender roles WILL come back and no one will have any time to waste on faggots and trans-snow kin.

[Anonymous No.8816908]

>>8816883
Like I said, there is no "boogeyman". There's boogey-gender-roles-based-on-slow-cultural-changes-that-are-the-product-of-centuries-of-developing-civilization.

Why do you think the feminist movement is so closely aligned with the Industrial Revolution and the new economic and social conditions of the late 19th century? Women were working again! Its about labor and economics, not emotional victimhood.

[Anonymous No.8816945]

>>8816908
>There's boogey-gender-roles-based-on-slow-cultural-changes-that-are-the-product-of-centuries-of-developing-civilization.
Not really. Believe it or not social changes happen pretty fucking fast.
>Why do you think the feminist movement is so closely aligned with the Industrial Revolution and the new economic and social conditions of the late 19th century?
Mainly because literacy rates rose among women.Women worked a lot before the industrial revollution. And when I mean work I am talking about working in the fields.
>Its about labor and economics, not emotional victimhood
But it is about victimhood. When women underperform in a field feminist solution is to just throw millions of dollars at it until something changes and if it doesn't change anything is just internalize oppression.

[Anonymous No.8816954]

>>8816806

white women wont succeed in the stem fields but indian, african, and asiatic women will because of their outlook.

[Anonymous No.8816978]

>>8816945
You're talking about a particular version of feminism, from your particular country, in your particular circumstances, 16 years into the 21st century.

Feminism isn't just whiny fat liberals with a women's studies degree just because that may be your experience with them. Feminism would be essential. especially in many 3rd world countries, many in which they barely got the right to vote and are barely beginning to drive. I'm from Texas. They're closing abortion clinics so fucking fast. While the oppression may not be as bad as say, in Saudi Arabia, women aren't exactly treated equally. The struggle doesn't just end. It's a continuous push-back against really regressive ideas.

[Anonymous No.8816984]

>>8816848
>is going to be the downfall of the West
Look around you, we've already fallen long ago. Future historians will place the definitive end mark of Western civilisation around the end of WW2. The fall began with the French revolution.

[Anonymous No.8816988]

>>8816978
>abortion is a women's rights issue

[Anonymous No.8816993]

>>8816978
>They're closing abortion clinics so fucking fast
So not allowing women to kill unborn infants is oppression? Wow we really need feminism.This injustice cannot continue

[Anonymous No.8816997]

>>8816978
And this, here, is another example of the psychology of the liberal.

Liberals are psychologically dependent on oppression. They see oppression when there is none, because "fighting oppression" gives them a sense of purpose. In the west, women are basically equal, yet they STILL fight.

[Anonymous No.8817005]

>>8816988
If I rape a man, he'll feel uncomfortable and have to wash out the cum out of his anus, hoping I have no disease.

If I rape a woman, she has to wash the cum out of her vagina, hope I had no disease, AND avoid pregnancy. If she was asleep or drunk and unaware that I raped her? If I have her threatened or she doesn't avoid the pregnancy in time because of lack of hospitals or money?

Seriously? You don't see the double standard? You don't think abortion is ever justifiable?

[Anonymous No.8817011]

>>8816993

i like abortion because it has killed a lot of niglets who would otherwise grow up to be hyper predators in todays cities

[Anonymous No.8817013]

>>8817005
Sorry bb, the issue is a little bit more complicated than that.

[Anonymous No.8817016]

>>8816997
I'm not a liberal. I hate liberals. You're a fucking liberal. I'm a communist.

And there totally is oppression. There's factual data proving this. There's legislature and everything in between that proves this. But of course, this won't convince you. Conservatives are dependent on oppressing others.

[Anonymous No.8817018]

>>8816978
What you really mean to say is that you want equal outcome. Protip: That's never going to be a thing. Nice that you want more dead babies instead of people fucking more responsibly, can't expect women to act reasonably, right?

[Anonymous No.8817026]

>>8817005
>Seriously? You don't see the double standard? You don't think abortion is ever justifiable?
You don't need abortion for crying out loud.There are pills.On top of that abortion is barely done due rape and your meme argument is just a huge strawman
>>8817011
You will go to hell

[Anonymous No.8817029]

>>8817016
>I'm not a liberal. I hate liberals. You're a fucking liberal. I'm a communist.
>And there totally is oppression. There's factual data proving this. There's legislature and everything in between that proves this. But of course, this won't convince you. Conservatives are dependent on oppressing others.
woo boy you're a living meme

[Anonymous No.8817030]

>>8817005
So if I rape a woman I should do it in her butt and that wouldn't be so bad? Thanks for the advice, pal, I'll be sure to remember it.

[Anonymous No.8817031]

>>8817016

>Oppression
>Bad

[Anonymous No.8817040]

>>8817018
Abortion and birth control are causing extreme population decline. People SHOULD reproduce and have babies. People did it in far worse conditions, but women now are brainwashed into thinking that they should have one child in their forties and that anytime earlier is "too early". Fucking shit, this didn't used to be a problem.

[Anonymous No.8817041]

>>8817026

>you will go to an abstract Canaanite conception of eternal punishment

[Anonymous No.8817046]

>>8817026
>there are pills

You seriously don't know how insane some families are. You really think everyone can just get birth control pills? Minors certainly can't. Girls from very religious households certainly can't.

It's not a strawman. These circumstances have happened very often. Women do get raped, and they don't always have the money, or are able to take themselves to a clinic or hospital. Some are women who might die in childbirth. They have to either give birth or terminate the pregnancy. Would YOU die for a fetus that may or may not live?

[Anonymous No.8817051]

>>8817046
>If a woman is raped, then she might have a baby! The horror!

[Anonymous No.8817052]

>>8817046

>You really think everyone can just get birth control pills?

Yes, it's extremely easy.

Over-the-counter-at-a-pharmacy-easy.

Are you some dumb cunt that still thinks you have to get condoms from your doctor/etc?