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/lit/ - Literature

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8794560 No.8794560[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

is this true?

>> No.8794568

its so wrong i don't feel like pointing out

>> No.8794581

>>8794560
Film is decent literature is...imperfect. i like some of the choices for music. And "art" lol

>> No.8794586

None of those video games deserve to be there. Moby Dick is the greatest book ever written and while 1984 is required reading I wouldn't call it an artistic achievment in literature. I won't comment on the other categories save to say that it's weird that paintings and sculptures seem to be lumped in together.

>> No.8794589

awful

>> No.8794591

>>8794560
the concept of greatness has the scent of dead bodies and dying iron

>> No.8794595

>>8794560
Jesus wept

>> No.8794596

>>8794560
add the big Lebowski in film and in search of lost time in literature and we're cool

>> No.8794598

All those things are entry level meme works in their respective genre.

>> No.8794599

>>8794586
what video games would you put there?

>> No.8794610

>>8794560
>this is what video games have to offer
>this is what gamers consider 'great artistic achievements'

>> No.8794618

>>8794560
> fallout
> art

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no

>> No.8794619

>>8794599
Not him but: Thief and Dark Souls could be there (I'd do with Demon's better than Dark) remove the others, add Silent Hill 2, Pathologic and Shadow Of The Colossus.

>> No.8794633

>>8794560
>videogames

>> No.8794644

>>8794599

Blood, Quake 3, Tekken 3, Soul Calibur 2.

>> No.8794665

>>8794618
>video games
>art

>> No.8794668

>>8794560
don't fall for the memes OP. All of those (with the exception of video games, because video games) are good stuff but not necessarily the greatest. Art is subjective so any objective list is kind of pointless.

>> No.8794682

video games do not belong, sorry autists

>> No.8794687

1984 is a shitty, YA tier book.

>> No.8794688
File: 201 KB, 567x337, trashman3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8794688

>>8794560

>games
>not shadow of the colossus

>> No.8794722
File: 534 KB, 850x566, 83e34ae6_d_850.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8794722

ПPAAAAтиTУти

>> No.8794723

>>8794599
Dwarf Fortress, Morrowwind, Pathologic, Papers, Please

The problem with video games is that they are, in many cases, games and not art. Like >>8794644 for example, none of these things are art.

>> No.8794727

>>8794560
>no Bach

>>8794688
this

>> No.8794728

>>8794722
HOLY SHIT WHY'S THIS SO FUNNY

>> No.8794738

>>8794560
Art is good, lit is pretty good, film is really bad, music is babys first important music, vidya is a mixed bag

>> No.8794745

>>8794560
> mozart
> not Wagner, Bach, Tchaikovski or Beethoven
???

>> No.8794775

>games
>art
lol

>> No.8794797

>>8794560
>no french new wave in cinema
>all videogames are shitty
>1984 or Ulysses over something like ''à la recherche du temps perdu''

This is one of the shittiest chart I've seen in my life.

>> No.8794803

>>8794797
>french new wave
>claiming about "bad taste"

>> No.8794811

>>8794803
>godfather
>chinese cartoon
>space odyssey
>better than anything by Jean-Luc Godard or François Truffaut

>> No.8794819

Counter Strike GO

>> No.8794822

>1984

jesus christ

>> No.8794844

>>8794811
>Goddard
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

>> No.8794860

>>8794560
> no chopin
> video games

i think i just took the b8

>> No.8794861

>>8794560

No, but I enjoy all those things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFA0FYQo0Gg

>> No.8794872

>>8794811
>"it doesn't include muh art movies that few people outside of artistic circles enjoy!"
I thought you dead, Roger Ebert.

>> No.8794874

>>8794872
>greatest artistic achievements chart
>doesnt include greatest artistic achievements

??????????

>> No.8794901

>>8794874
>greatest artistic achievements
>works that can only be enjoyed and appreciated by a small circle of people

You and I clearly define what is good art differently.

>> No.8794915

>>8794560
replace Bros K with Anna Karenina and 1984 with literally anything else

someone explain to me why 1984 is so highly regarded

>> No.8794919

>>8794901

>le old movies are obscure meme

Your tastes are shit

>> No.8794926

>>8794915
It's on the book itself

>The best books, he perceived, are those that tell you what you know already.

Self validation.

>> No.8794936

>>8794560
>1984
>great achievement

If you consider plagarizing a 20 year old book that was much better and less obnoxious with its philosophy i guess

>> No.8794937

>>8794560
>Anime
>andy warhol
lel

>> No.8794954

>>8794936
>If you consider plagarizing a 20 year old book that was much better and less obnoxious with its philosophy i guess
What are you refering to? Some obscure dystopian text titled 1982?

>> No.8794960

>>8794954
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)

>> No.8794965

>>8794560
No, get fallout thief and deus ex out.

>> No.8794970

>>8794560
Dunno about music, film and art, but replace 1984 and moby dick with Gravity's Rainbow and Lolita and also replace Dark Sould with Life Is Strange.

>> No.8794994

>>8794970
I'm so sorry.

>> No.8794997

why do these really dumb threads get posts in them

>> No.8795000

>>8794970
>Life Is Strange
Jesus reddit-posting Christ

>> No.8795036

>>8794619
>>8794723

honestly Pathologic is too flawed; some of its flaws somehow result in virtues (like how fucking dreadful and obtuse everything is) but others are unforgivable

>>8794965
>get thief out

your opinion is shit

>> No.8795046

>>8794560
>1984

Lel, who made that? An American?

>> No.8795049

>>8794919
I do not think they have lost anything for age, but rather that they have failed to persevere in our cultural memory against the test of time.

Film is an inherently flawed art form: It commands the full attention of two senses over an extended period of time. To experience the full effect of the work, you cannot put a film down and come back to it, like you can with a book. Unlike music, film cannot be enjoyed in the background of another entertaining activity. You need to condition yourself to enjoy all but the most flashy and juvenile cinema.

>> No.8795053

>>8794619
>Dark Souls

this series of fucking games has to be the biggest meme of the century

>> No.8795056

>>8794723
>Dwarf Fortress
my sub-saharan sidekick.

Dwarf Fortress is the only game that truly achieved the depth of another art form. It's truly dazzling in scope.

>> No.8795058

>>8794560
Of course not.
It's not a bad selection though.

>> No.8795059

>>8795053
no, you are

>> No.8795065

>>8795053
So? It being or not a "meme" doesn't have anything to do with its inherent values neither in the negative nor in the positive sense.

>> No.8795066

>>8794560
The video game selection isn't the very best, but at least it doesn't include smarmy, conceited indie garbage.

I'm sad that Ebert died believing that Braid was the best example of art in video games.

>> No.8795068

I mean I love 21st Century Schizoid Man, The VU & Nico, and the Beach Boys, but none of the artists there are the greatest in music. The stand out as achievements within their own decade, but that's I really. Meme list, totally false.

>> No.8795069
File: 11 KB, 236x232, 1e3d3b5ae6435729f7903ce1ed32c67b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795069

>>8794915
>acts like not recognizing b8
>suggests replacing Karamazov

>> No.8795071

>>8795068
Yeah. This list would work better as "greatest achievements in late 20th - early 21st century art forms.'

>> No.8795072

>>8794560
>no league of legends or world of warcraft

>> No.8795077

>>8794915
>Anna Karenina
>the soap opera of Russian lit

go 'way

>> No.8795080

>>8795065
it does mean it's totally overrated

>> No.8795085

>>8795072
I wouldn't consider these the greatest artistic achievements in video games, though they are certainly great achievements in video games.

>> No.8795095
File: 992 KB, 500x347, 1475186591418.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795095

I think Space Station 13 is the only vidya that could qualify as art

>> No.8795102

>>8795056
Roguelikes are the only genre that I think people who appreciate other art forms would be comfortable in calling art, they're just too deep and have too much going on to be digested in one sitting, which a good work of art should ideally attempt to do.

>> No.8795105

>>8795080
And, again, saying it's "overrated" has nothing to do with it's inherent values. You're putting its reception by public as the most important aspect of a work when it's the least important aspect. The author, the makers, have no power in determining how their work will be received. They don't know if they're gonna be ridiculously popular or doomed to ostracism. But this has nothing to do with the content of the work. Only the content of the work has to do with the quality of the work. Is "Dark Souls" perfect? Of course not. Has been overblown by the public and the marketing? Of course. It's still an atmospheric work who manages to convey most of its narrative using the exclusive and unique ways of its medium and it does present an aesthetically stunning world full of interesting characters and concepts, using little to none blunt exposition. It's a great work, even if not a perfect one, and, most important, it's a work that could be only a videogame.

>> No.8795110

>>8795085
league of legends is not an achievement. It's a fucking dumbed-down version of a warcraft 3 mod

>> No.8795113
File: 102 KB, 622x392, we get it you vape.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795113

>>8795095
My nigga

>> No.8795114

>>8795095
See
>>8795056
>>8795102

>> No.8795119

>>8795066
Ebert died thinking video games weren't art. He only made the public concession so fat NEET man children would stop harassing him.

>> No.8795130
File: 71 KB, 428x418, ble.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795130

>>8794560
None of them are horribly bad. Some of them are good, some even great.

>> No.8795131

>>8795110
It turned AoS/DoTA into a watchable eSport, that's its only achievement.

>> No.8795134

>>8795105
>And, again, saying it's "overrated" has nothing to do with it's inherent values.

I never said it did? I said it was a fucking meme. Which it is. Good job making a reply to things I didn't say.

>> No.8795139

>>8794560
this is a good shortcut guide for pseuds

>> No.8795140

>>8795119
A girl I went to highschool was upset with Eberts assesment and countered with an argument that analogized Fred Ott's Sneeze to the state of video games now and she went on to suggest that video games only need better story telling, graphics and sound design to fully realize their potential as art.

Of course alot of gamers agree with that sentiment either overtly or tacitly and that's why video games are a shit medium.

>> No.8795143

>>8795119
He might have changed his mind, had he seen video games of any merit and if not for the reddit neckbeards.

>> No.8795149

>>8794599
Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 & Vanquish, maybe Shadow of the Colossus on a generous day.

>> No.8795155

>>8794687
You can sensibly call it shitty or YA, but not both.

>> No.8795164

>>8795056
>>8795095
I agree with these two
Ideally any "artistic" video game should incorporate the thing that makes video games different from film or something, namely, their ability to be interacted with and to give the player the control of the game. In a regular video game, controls are purposefully streamlined to make use easy and readily accessible to the public. However, Dorf and SS13 eschew this in favor of adding a unique and complex way of interfacing that requires thought and learning to truly be able to competently interact with the game itself. Parallels can be drawn to works like Trout Mask Replica or Finnegan's Wake (though I'm not saying they're of the same artistic merit; they're definitely not) in that they subvert the conventions of ingesting the art form in which they operate. Theyre deep enough mechanically and narratively that they require multiple sessions of play to even grasp what it is about, not to mention the untold sessions of play required to truly perfect and unlock the true potential of the works themselves. I'm not saying they compare to truly great works of art, and I'm not saying that they are on the same level as the sacred cows of Literature and Music and Art, but the depth of the games themselves reveal the creator's artistic passion for the medium in which they operate
Or not I don't fucking know

>> No.8795173

>>8795164
you're right, you don't

>> No.8795176

>>8795140
>story telling, graphics and sound design

this is totally contrary to what videogames should be about

they should be about primarily what makes them unique as a media, the gameplay

something like super mario 64 (or something else that has inarguable top quality gameplay) is closer to art than some unbearable story focused indie trash

>> No.8795181

>>8795176
medium*

>> No.8795182

>>8794560
NINE
>TEEN
EIGHTY
>FOUR
SHOULD
>NOT
BE
>ON
THAT
>LIST
YOU
>PILLOW

>> No.8795204
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8795204

>>8794560
>there are people ITT who don't think that Deus Ex is one of the greatest video games ever made

>> No.8795216

>>8794581

only music ones that make sense to me are Mozart and VU + Nico. Mozart for arguably being zenith of type of tonal composition in classical and baroque western art music, before romantic composers jumped in and started doing stuff that was probably too different to be compared fairly. VU + Nico works b/c its arguably the most influential pop album of the 20th century.

>> No.8795221

>>8794844
>He doesn't like Goddard
kys

>> No.8795222
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8795222

>>8794560
tfw to intelligent to like anything on this list

>> No.8795232

>>8795221
Hes pretty good, i wouldnt say i dont like him but he is certainly not as good as his american counterparts in Coppola or Kubrick.

>> No.8795235
File: 257 KB, 415x476, prefer not to.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795235

>>8794872
>French New Wave
>Films that "few people outside of artistic circles enjoy"
what my man?

>> No.8795236

>>8794811
bergman is 100x better godard

>> No.8795238

>>8794599
None of them.

>> No.8795246
File: 1.37 MB, 1080x1080, 13b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795246

>>8794560
>greatest artistic achievements in vidya
>ctrl + f
>no alpha centauri
>why even bother living

>> No.8795258

>>8795164
Good post

>>8795204
This isn't about whether a game is great. It's about whether a game is an artistic achievement.

>> No.8795265

>>8794560
The others are also pretty bad but I'm laughing my ass of at the "Art" section

>> No.8795292

>>8795102
I have my doubts about that. I've played a whole lot of DCSS and I would never consider calling it a work of art. The fact that it is one of the best-designed roguelikes out there does not bode well.

>> No.8795293

>>8795176
I agree with this. Gameplay should be emphasized because gameplay is what makes videogames a distinct medium.
If I were creating a videogame "art" museum and I had to choose whether to include Devil May Cry 3 or Gone Home I would choose Devil May Cry 3.

>> No.8795297

>>8794560
not even remotely.
it's a truckload of bullshit and memes, except for what concerns art. that's all.

>> No.8795308

>>8794599

EYE: Divine Cybermancy
Shadow of the Collosus
Hitman: Blood Money
Peggle Deluxe

>> No.8795327

>>8794599
Melee or 3rd strike should be there

>> No.8795340

why is king crimson considered good?

>> No.8795346

>>8794599
wizardry or dragon quest 1

final fantasy vii

super mario bros

chrono trigger

space invaders or pong

super metroid

>> No.8795347

>>8794560

Maybe Nineteen Eighty-Four does belong by virtue of being so provocative
Or maybe OP pic belongs under Art by virtue of being so provocative

>> No.8795352

>>8795346
Ur dumb

>> No.8795357
File: 399 KB, 1280x1024, 9914.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8795357

>SMAC
>Ultima 4-7
>SSF2 Turbo
>Ikaruga
>DOOM

fight me
>inb4 treasurefag
>tfw treasurefag

>> No.8795361

>>8795340
I'd like to say that they refined prog and were precursors to a lot of groups. They basically perfected the genre with their Red album, specifically 'Starless', one of the greatest songs like ever

>> No.8795365

>>8795357
>no radiant silvergun

>> No.8795384

>>8795365
ik man it hurts

felt i could only pick one tho

>> No.8795390

>>8795361
ITCOTCK is such an overrated album. This isn't to say that it's bad by any means - it really is great. However, it seems most people parade it around as KC's greatest work, simply because they haven't listened to anything else by them like Red or Lark's Tongues. Much like with Pink Floyd and DSOTM, anyone who considers ITCOTCK to be their "favorite KC album" is really just a pleb.

>> No.8795406

>greatest works of literature
>Exclusively comprised of novels.

I think there's a little more to literature.

>> No.8795413

>>8795361
>>8795390
do only stoners listen to KC or just mostly stoners?

>> No.8795425

>>8795390
Agreed. I can see why they'd like it so much to be their favorite but if they spent just a couple of hours exploring, their perspective would be so much better.

>> No.8795441

>>8795292
DCSS is not very good ladderino
Cata, Dorf, and NetHack are all better