/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8712662]

What's worse neoliberalism or fascism?

[Anonymous No.8712671]

>>8712662
your thread

[Anonymous No.8712681]

>>8712662
maybe neoliberalism, with fascism you know that something is wrong but neoliberalism is like frostbite and invisible chains that guide you to the end the power holders want instead of ordering you like fascism

[Anonymous No.8712685]

>>8712681
damn...........

[Anonymous No.8712695]

usa has been fascist since 1930s

[Anonymous No.8712699]

>>8712695
no

[Anonymous No.8712700]

>>8712662
each have their own downsides
if you enjoy taking corporate dick up the ass then fascism is worse

>>8712695
leave

[Anonymous No.8712705]

what's the distinction?

[Anonymous No.8712707]

>>8712695
Everything is fascism when you don't know what it means or when you are trying to slander people

[Anonymous No.8712721]

>>8712699
>>8712700
>>8712707
you are the ones with broken definitions

[Anonymous No.8712734]

>>8712662
At least their isn't an ideology that tries to pass itself off as a non-ideology with fascism

[Anonymous No.8712741]

>>8712721
lets hear yours

[Anonymous No.8712746]

>>8712662
>worse
>>8712707
Even Communism.

[Anonymous No.8712749]

>>8712746
>Even Communism.
of course
t. Nick Land

[Anonymous No.8712758]

Two sides of the same coin.

[Anonymous No.8712781]

>>8712707

It keeps happening!

So fragile, no wonder they want nice daddy state to look after them and shield them from different opinions.

[Anonymous No.8712783]

>>8712781
It's Trump who wants to use daddy state to shield white trash from ebul niggers, mexicans and foreign business.

[Anonymous No.8712795]

>>8712783

>ebul niggers, mexicans and foreign business

The first two are measurably bad though. Nobody has ever proved that diversity or feminism are valuable per se.

[Anonymous No.8712801]

>>8712795
S P O O K E D

[Anonymous No.8712804]

>>8712795
That's not the point though. If you're going to pull the liberturd "hurr nanny state" you can't approve of a protectionist. Not that libertarians actually have principles.

[Anonymous No.8712805]

>>8712662
Fascism started a war that killed over 60 million people, so...that.

[Anonymous No.8712807]

>>8712804
>principals
S P O O K E D
>>8712805
Like a hundred million my man.

[Anonymous No.8712822]

>>8712804

Why does wanting limited government make me a libertarian? I'm not some sort of Randroid, I just think enough's enough. Pretty textbook conservatism. Don't you think it's disturbing how these people desire shelter from reality? The safe spaces, the problem with free speech, the frantic reaction to Trump. . .you'd think that Count Dracula had won the election.

>>8712805

>Implying it wouldn't have happened anyway

You think that Russia was just going to twiddle it's thumbs? They had already invaded Poland, Finland, and the Baltic States before getting their shit ruined by the Wehrmacht. Not to mention the brutal suppression of the Ukrainians in the 1930s. Eventually Russia and Germany were going to have a brutal war, it wouldn't matter if it was Hitler in charge or some other leader.

In 1914 the oh so innocent Imperial Germans were already planning to commit genocide in Eastern Europe so it's not like the Fascists did anything new or surprising.

[Anonymous No.8712824]

>>8712707
Raising the voting age to at least 25 would go a long way towards saner societies.
Instead we're seeing the opposite trend, with some countries lowering the voting age to 16 and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.8712829]

>fuck white men
>they are all racist misogynistic scum
and these 'neoliberalists' don't see a contradiction in this.
they go out and protest the results of a legitimate democratic election.
fascism is bad, but I don't know if brainwashed 'progressives' agressively denying anything that doesn't fit their imagined state of the world is any better.

[Anonymous No.8712832]

Fascism is better, but it requires a pretty hard heart. Modern man is so soft, and his Western sensibilities so easily offended, that there's no threat of real fascism any time soon.

[Anonymous No.8712837]

>>8712824
You know what would make society truly sane? Putting you in charge. That's right! We should just put you in charge and everything would be sorted out.

Why aren't we doing this? God, people are so stupid.

[Anonymous No.8712844]

>>8712837

>Le strawman faec

I thought by now you people would realize that more democracy is NOT better. So far it's gotten you Brexit and Trump.

You should be happy to see more limitations placed upon the populist masses.

[Anonymous No.8712847]

>>8712844
Why do you think I think democracy is better?

You're not -gasp- setting up a strawman, are you?

[Anonymous No.8712854]

Both.

[Anonymous No.8712859]

>>8712854
>le stirner maymay man thinks anything is "bad"

[Anonymous No.8712860]

>>8712859
You sound pretty spooked, friend.

[Anonymous No.8712861]

>>8712860
I think I should bust you.

[Anonymous No.8712862]

>>8712837
You'll know what I'm talking about when you get older.
People in their teens and early 20s are generally clueless about society and politics.
Only later (when they start looking for work and/or start a family) they gain enough insight.

If you check the voting results and all that stuff you'll see that youngsters often stand out like a sore thumb.
They keep making political decisions which they'd end up regretting 10, 20 or 50 years later.
Being young with no responsibilities is an exceptional state overall. The vast majority of life is not lived that way.

[Anonymous No.8712865]

>>8712862
>You'll know what I'm talking about when you get older.
I know what you're talking about right now.

[Anonymous No.8712869]

>>8712859

A false left right dichotomy is bad. So is the state.

[Anonymous No.8712870]

>>8712869
You sound pretty spooked, friend.

[Anonymous No.8712874]

reminder for mods to never delete the containment threads they make themselves

[Anonymous No.8712876]

I hate stirnerposters so goddamn much

[Anonymous No.8712884]

>>8712870

I am and will always remain unspooked.

[Anonymous No.8712890]

>>8712824
If there's a minimum age requirement then there should also be a maximum age cap. Voters between 25 and 60 for example. Everyone else is irrelevant, not functional or insane and can fuck off.

[Anonymous No.8712894]

>>8712890
thank god democracy will end before you people get away with shit like that

[Anonymous No.8712897]

>>8712890
I kinda agree actually, although that's harder to pull off (and maybe 60 is a tad too low).

[Anonymous No.8712903]

>>8712824
voting age is not the problem. people staying mental children well into their 30s is a problem.

[Anonymous No.8712910]

>>8712781
#totallyNotRacist

[Anonymous No.8712912]

>>8712903
/pol/ was a mistake.

When I was in school there was this gaggle of fourteen year olds who all congratulated each other on their clear-headed conservatism. They took the Myers-Briggs test until they got the result they wanted: INTP.

You must accept that no one is a "mental child". They're just adults. That's what adults are like.

[Anonymous No.8712925]

>>8712805
>Fascism started a war
systems of rule don't start things

[Anonymous No.8712926]

>>8712910
its funny because its not only racist but also a sexist and ageist statement

[Anonymous No.8712928]

>>8712912
>They're just adults. That's what adults are like.
im not one of those fags who things you need some signs of maturity like reading X books or some shit like that but I expect more mental fortitude from an adult. adult does not fall into a fetal postion when their candidate does not win

[Anonymous No.8712934]

>>8712928
Yes they do.

Your expectations are delusional.

[Anonymous No.8712939]

>>8712912
http://9gag.com/gag/aYK48X2

[Anonymous No.8712945]

>>8712934
>Yes they do.
no they don't. its not 9/11, your whole family was not just killed by some African warlord while you were raped and forced to watch. if a paper cut can causes you a need to take off 2 weeks of works to deal with the emotional trauma then you are a child

[Anonymous No.8712967]

There is literally nothing wrong with neoliberalism.

Free trade is just people wanting to trade with each other. How does it exploit anyone? A country opens up to the world markets and suddenly there are jobs and foreign investment and western journalists everywhere exposing poverty and crying and whining over every tiny thing. How is that not good?

We can't have global unfettered capitalism sooner.

[Anonymous No.8712969]

>>8712939

We're hitting triggered levels that shouldn't even be possible.

[Anonymous No.8712991]

>>8712695
Definitely not.

t. Unironic Fascist

[Anonymous No.8713000]

>>8712939
>posting a link to a webm on an imageboard

[Anonymous No.8713031]

>>8712945
Motherfucker adults cry over sports games and soap operas.

You really, really want people to be what they aren't.

[Anonymous No.8713095]

>>8712662
socialism and communism

[Anonymous No.8713098]

>>8712781
Farage would use the term nanny state, stop trying to make his language non class based af.

[Anonymous No.8713298]

>>8712876
me too anon

[Anonymous No.8713344]

>>8712844
People from 18-25 voted against Trump and Brexit. This is exactly the limitation we DON'T need, especially because they'll be affected most. If anything, we should ban voting over 70. You won't live long enough to experience the consequences of your votes.

Plus if your goal really is avoiding another brexit/Trump, that would make sense.

[Anonymous No.8713350]

>>8712662
facism is better for the left

but this is not like any type of facism we've evr seen

[Anonymous No.8713387]

>>8712829
>what was the 2012 election conservative salt pile
>what are creationists and Bible bangers making laws against people who have a different world view and throwing a tantrum when the people want something different
Come on.

[Anonymous No.8713391]

>>8712662

NeoLiberalism for sure, they make up reality and change definitions as they go, they are impossible to debate. At least with facism you know what you're getting.

[Anonymous No.8713402]

fascism is better because at least it's honest

[Anonymous No.8713425]

>>8713391
>Made up reality vs Made up reality
>changing definitions vs wrong definitions
You're not convincing me. They're equally shit and run by shit people. Come back and talk to me when we DON'T have a fucking creationist who believes the world was created 6000 years ago as head of education next election.

[Anonymous No.8713439]

Both systems are going to tell what to believe and behave in conform with the main ideology, but neo-liberalism is much more perverse in its orders.

Fascism will tell that you should do A otherwise you're an enemy of the nation/people and you'll banished, tortured and killed, fine; but in the West, today, it works this way: you have the 'free' choice to do whatever you want, but if you choose B you're ignorant, intelligent, progressive people will only do A, which is much, MUCH more persuasive than the fascist system. You have an illusion of free choice, you think you are thinking for yourself, and even worse than that: you're going to hell and back to defend the very same technocrats and charismatic figures you're just another battery for.

[Anonymous No.8713470]

>>8712695
>all these angry replies
Every major contestant of WWII – including the great Asian powers Japan and China – developed fascist governance to an advanced state. The essential feature was state seizure of the economy’s ‘commanding heights’ in the delegated (and integrated) ‘popular interest’. During war time such interest is peeled back to sheer survival, and thus publicized with dramatic intensity, which is also to say with an unusual absence of skepticism. Fascism is therefore broadly identical with a normalization of war-powers in a modern state, that is: sustained social mobilization under central direction. Consequently, it involves, beside the centralization of political authority in a permanent war council, a tribal hystericization of social identity, and a considerable measure of economic pragmatism. Fascism is practical socialism, distinguished from its dim cousin by its far more sophisticated grasp of incentives, or of human nature in its motivated individual and tribal particularity.

[Anonymous No.8713475]

>>8712876
"Hate" is a spook

[Anonymous No.8713486]

>>8713470
Can you write it in plain English please?:

[Anonymous No.8713503]

>>8712662
Hey! That pic was taken right across the street from my office! :^)

[Anonymous No.8713533]

>>8713470
>far more sophisticated grasp of incentives, or of human nature in its motivated individual and tribal particularity.

[Anonymous No.8713549]

>>8712707
>>8712707
My god, I cannot wait for millenials to be completly wiped off in terms of having political influence and for gen z to take over. They are our only hope, I believe in them and think they're smart enough to think for themselves over this neo-liberalism bullshit. Basing this off my little 15 year old brother and some of his friends, they're surprisingly aware and even religious and don't buy into this liberal era bullshit. Gives me hope tbqhwyfam.

[Anonymous No.8713569]

>>8713439
Can someone elaborate on the truthfulness of this?
t. uneducated sheep

[Anonymous No.8713577]

>>8713569
It's much easier to follow an ideology when you believe you're doing it on your own free will. Whereas rebellion is always a consequence of fascism, neo-liberalism will give you the illusion of having a free choice then belittle you, humiliate you, question your intelligence if you don't follow their specific theories.

[Anonymous No.8713588]

>>8713577
Can you recommend some books to read on similar matters? I'd like to cease being a sheep.

[Anonymous No.8713597]

>>8713588
>I'd like to cease being a sheep.

No such thing, there is only a level of awareness of how much of a sheep you're.

[Anonymous No.8713603]

>>8712662
Trick question they're the same thing

You are being enslaved by yourself and everyone around you

[Anonymous No.8713605]

>>8713588
Don't really know any, haven't looked into all that much, I'm mostly just making assumptions based off what has been happening in the west in the past decade or two. either way you've got the internet, as vague as that sounds just start with the /lit/ top 100, find what you like then branch off from there into specific topics you like

[Anonymous No.8713607]

>>8713597
So enlighten me

[Anonymous No.8713612]

>>8713607
Start with the Greeks. Plato.

[Anonymous No.8713613]

>>8713588
The tradshedy of our predicament when we are within ideology ish that when we think that we eshcape it into our dreamsh, at that point we are within ideology. *sniff*

[Anonymous No.8713615]

Legit question, and one that never gets answered: Are you people retarded in conflating communism and statism? I'm a communist and I despiste the state as much as I despise capital, and it seems pretty obvious how both organisms complement each other.

[Anonymous No.8713621]

>>8713612
Shall I begin with Plato's Republic?

[Anonymous No.8713625]

>>8713621
NO, start with the trial of Socrates ffs.

[Anonymous No.8713628]

>>8712945
My dude, I'm from Brazil, and we had a pretty similar situation, a corrupt "left" winger demagogue riding on the IM A WIMEN vs. a retarded rich boy who never really had to work, except here, the left won, and people were so mad they actually had to impeach her.

A coworker of mine started GOING TO THE FUCKING PSYCHIATRIST because the left won the elections.

[Anonymous No.8713629]

>>8713621
"Start with the greeks" is a meme, don't fall for it.

>>8713615
>I'm a communist.

[Anonymous No.8713630]

>>8713615
Most people in these threads think seem to think communism = Stalinism for whatever reason

[Anonymous No.8713634]

>>8713391
The very fact you spell neoliberalism as NeoLiberalism shows you have absolutely no idea what liberalism entails in this situation and ironically uses the made up american definition.

Why do burgers have the right to opinions again?

[Anonymous No.8713635]

>>8713615
>>8713630
samefag

Anyway,
>being a communist
>in 2016

Bet you're also an atheist too

[Anonymous No.8713637]

>>8712662
Both

[Anonymous No.8713641]

>>8713635
What's scary is that you're serious

[Anonymous No.8713643]

>>8713635
>samefag
:^)

>Bet you're also an atheist too
>drinking the opium of the masses

[Anonymous No.8713647]

>>8713629
Okay. What do you propose I read, then?

[Anonymous No.8713650]

>>8713588
>I'd like to cease being a sheep.
>asks others for advice

[Anonymous No.8713651]

How do you guys respond to your idiotic friends sending you news links about the stupidity of the protests and how Trump isn't a racist and all of the extremely surface level arguments? One friend sent me some long "Open Letter to Those Who Think I'm a Racist" thing from The Odyssey and I sort of told her that if she thinks that's a cutting edge argument then she should a retard.

I ask, because I'm reading this thread and seeing less shallow comprehension of rhetoric and behavior surrounding the recent week's election and hope maybe you people know whether I should attempt to inform or instead just agree and say "yeah wow racism is uncool b"

[Anonymous No.8713653]

>>8713641
>>8713643
>implying that being religious means you believe it magically solves all your life problems and makes everything gay as shit sprinkles

now thats just embarrassing right there, shouldn't you be posting trap porn on b?

[Anonymous No.8713654]

>>8713651
She is* a retard
Ironic typo

[Anonymous No.8713661]

>>8713651
Millennials, everybody- point and laugh, they'll soon be irrelevant in 5 years.

[Anonymous No.8713663]

liberalism is a false religion that worships weakness, disease and perversion and shames the Strong for their superiority. Leftism is but an infantile disorder, it is a futile attempt to defy natural law. But the New Dawn is nigh. We shall return to the values of our ancestors: honour power and brutality. May cucks tremble before our might

[Anonymous No.8713667]

>>8713663
m'lady

[Anonymous No.8713676]

>>8713439
thanks zizek

[Anonymous No.8713678]

>>8713661
Can't wait

[Anonymous No.8713686]

>>8713661
>implying you're not a millennial
If not you're either like 35+ years old or 17, in which case yr position on 4chan is pretty tenuous/sad

[Anonymous No.8713691]

>>8713653
What

[Anonymous No.8713694]

>>8713651
Woah you gotta respect bourgeoise institutions you guise! Trump is merely openly stating what Obama and Bush did for the past 16 years. The banal brutality of the system has always been there. Trump just laid it out for all to see.It's an opportunity. The alt right is now on the awkward position of having to defend the establishment, telling people to be civil and respect authority. If you are forced to rely on civility and bourgeoisie standards of decency, you are doomed. Just look at what happened to Hillary's neolibs

[Anonymous No.8713714]

>>8713694
>implying

[Anonymous No.8713718]

>>8713588
Just go after some Zizek. Start with his movies, move to his articles, fist magazines then academic ones, until you're familiar enough to his jargon to tackle Sublime Object of Ideology.

[Anonymous No.8713723]

>>8713663
>natural law

every time

[Anonymous No.8713727]

>>8713718
Will do, thanks.

[Anonymous No.8713733]

>>8713686
I'm 19, and happy to see gen z is capable of thinking independently and largely rejecting shitty millenial "values".

[Anonymous No.8713740]

>>8713663
Will the "New Dawn" include no longer putting that silly extra U in honor?

[Anonymous No.8713758]

>>8713733
>implying there are generationally held values and it isn't a spook which happens every twenty years

[Anonymous No.8713760]

>>8713635
You still haven't answered my question: Why do you people fail to realize communism is actually AGAINST statism?

[Anonymous No.8713767]

>>8713760
I dare you to post a picture of yourself just so we can laugh at your fatass and neck beard

I'll respond to your question if you do it

[Anonymous No.8713770]

>>8713760
Communists want
>bigger government
>state sanctioned theft of property
>muh diversity
>gays and trannies
>feminism
>Jewish sophistry
>collectivism
>central banking

In short, they want what we already have, but more so. They are pawns for the media/academic/ banking elites

[Anonymous No.8713780]

>>8713770
Spooked

[Anonymous No.8713786]

>>8713770
Source. If we already have communism, why I'm not the owner of the fruits of my labour? Where in communist theory is there even anything about banking and media elites? How can a central, all-encompassing, all planing state and collectivism work alongside each other? Which part of "Worker control of the means of production" says anything about diversity, gays, trannies and feminism? Where were you when the left was AGAINST globalization in the 90s, but neoliberalism pushed it until we had it and became scared when it didn't work?

I hope you do realize "diversity" as you put it arises from colonialism and exploitation of poor countries, and the forced urban growth promoted by the industrial revolution, causing poor people from all around the world to gather around urban centers.

[Anonymous No.8713806]

>>8713786
If you need the nomenklatura to explain it to you, you are already infected with counter-revolutionary false consciousness. Please report to your nearest gulag, comrade.

[Anonymous No.8713823]

>>8713806
Great meme, not such a great answer to any of those questions.

I also want you to explain to me why Lenin himself was already writing against "left"communism.

Maybe...the USSR wasn't communist at all???? GASP!

[Anonymous No.8713829]

>>8712662
I think this is pretty fucking obvious. Neoliberalism. It does nothing but promote degeneracy, decadence, miscegenation, and decline.

[Anonymous No.8713845]

>>8713634
this, does this moron think that neoliberal = sjw?
America was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.8713850]

>>8713845
They always do.
Some people also seem to think nazism / fascism were left wing.

[Anonymous No.8713854]

>>8713850
It's an over simplification to call it right wing as well. I believe it to be radically moderate.

[Anonymous No.8713951]

>>8713786
Even if you are not for the SJW shit, you leftards have no plan to stop them. They are destroying the west, they are destroying patrician western culture and free speech. How are you gonna stop the islamisation of Europe or the feminization of white males?

[Anonymous No.8713964]

>>8712681
Yeah this.
Rather be unhappy than pretending to be happy.

[Anonymous No.8713969]

>>8712662
Communism is the worst.

[Anonymous No.8713973]

>>8712662
Definitely fascism. Progress to the better keeps happening in neoliberalism, just the benefits are disproportional for the elite. There are pretty much no benefits for fascism and shit stagnating is the best case scenario (history examples show how it tends to get much worse)

Besides, it's easier to turn a neoliberal shithole into something decent, while with fascism it'd take at least one generation.

>>8713770
>being this American

[Anonymous No.8713974]

>>8712662
Cultural Marxism

[Anonymous No.8713982]

>>8713969
>implying communism isn't the best.

[Anonymous No.8713995]

>>8713982
>worst

Yes, thats exactly what is implied

[Anonymous No.8713996]

>>8712681
Propaganda is better than torture. Society has always successfully suppressed the individual and the more subtlety is does so the better. If you don't think that's true move to somewhere where the control is not so complete like Syria or Sudan.

[Anonymous No.8714005]

>>8713951
>They are destroying the west

The West is way more politically divisive than you realize. Here in the South, fundamentalist Christian fascism is a literal thing and it has the backing of the majority. I can't even go grocery shopping without people driving up to me and handing me propaganda leaflets detailing their plans to institute a "Christian" government. People still burn books and rally protesters to call for the criminalization of homosexual activity.

What you're referring to as neoliberalism is nowhere near as serious as you think it is. We're talking about college kids dabbling in babby's first political cause and trying to find a sense of themselves in the world. They absolutely grow out of this shit by their 30s. And regardless of how vocal they may be, most people have the common sense not to take them seriously because they have little if any legislative power in this country, or their demands are just so ludicrous that no politician would even want to pander to them. Sure, the media may pander to it, but that's the media. Our media is frankly a circus of sensationalized nonsense.

[Anonymous No.8714012]

>>8714005
Southern Gothic Hypercalvinist Fash Dystopia sounds pretty dank to be honest

[Anonymous No.8714014]

>>8714005
>neoliberalism is nowhere near as serious as you think it is
Not him, but nigga, you fail to understand what neoliberalism is. As he does with the talk about SJWs as if they are somehow relevant.

Thatcher or Reagan (and most US presidents who followed him) couldn't give a fuck about homos or feminism.

[Anonymous No.8714018]

>>8713951
What's your plan to stop SJWs besides posting Trump memes?

[Anonymous No.8714020]

>>8714018
A fashy white goy ethnostate would be a pretty good start

[Anonymous No.8714022]

>>8714018
re-education camps