/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8626401]

There is an undeniable correlation between race and intelligence. Some races are smarter than others. From everything I've read/researched, it's simply a fact that's not allowed to be stated for obvious reasons.

Not a /pol/tard, but I was wondering if there were any cogent, scientific arguments to the contrary. If so, I'd like to hear them. Emotional arguments, particularly anything disparaging white Europeans without also acknowledging their staggering contributions to civilization.

tldr; broadly speaking, some races are smarter than others. It would be a healthy thing for society to accept this fact sooner rather than later.

[Anonymous No.8626405]

>>8626401
im sorry, are you implying everyone doesnt already know this?

[Anonymous No.8626407]

>>8626401
I've been waiting to see research papers on this that aren't based around statistics. Do you have them?

[Anonymous No.8626409]

What difference does it make?

Intelligence is not a thing in itself, but the quality of those who do intelligent things. Let people do things so to allow intelligence to flourish.

[Anonymous No.8626413]

>>8626401
>Herrnstein
>stein

Nice try, shill

[Anonymous No.8626414]

>>8626405
To be fair, outside of 4chan the majority of people don't know this. /pol/ack fucked up this website, and this thread should be deleted, but it's good that this is getting put out there, as opposed to lingering, irresolvable white guilt over institutional racism for the next two hundred years.

[Anonymous No.8626418]

>>8626409
I have nothing going going for me besides my skin color and I'd like to feel a momentary feeling of self-worth, so please validate me.

[Anonymous No.8626421]

>>8626401
*Shrugs*
Fact of the matter is, I've never actually seen any studies that aren't contradicted by other studies on the subject. Since I'm not affording to trust one source over the other on the subject, I ignore them. Ignoring them, I fall back onto knowledge I can trust, e.g.: School biology. School biology tells me quite simply that the brain is a fucking complex thing, genetics regarding the brain should take quite a lot of time to be selected, and most of all, there isn't really much reason for man to have been selected further for intelligence in Asia Europe compared to Africa, and importantly, Europeans have Neanderthal genes, which if anything, should lower the IQ a bit compared to Africans.

[Anonymous No.8626424]

>>8626409
This is idiotic, if you're implying there's no neurological or genetic patterns related to the performance of complex or demanding tasks. Keep in mind not all organisms are human.

[Anonymous No.8626426]

>>8626405
Everyone? Hardly. I think many people believe it but suppress that belief. The culture at large chooses to ignore it.

I think a majority of blacks know it. Would explain their insecurity

[Anonymous No.8626436]

>>8626426
Do you think they are intelligent enough to realize it?

Personally, I don't. Same with women

[Anonymous No.8626437]

Fact: there are thousands of black people smarter than you. They also have bigger dicks

[Anonymous No.8626439]

>>8626421
I mean... I don't know what to say. Racial differences in intelligence can be observed empirically. Go to Australia and talk to a few Aborigines. Despite all the propaganda, we all know what happened down there is the subjugation of a less intelligent race by a more intelligent one. If the whites didn't actively take steps to preserve them through welfare and such, they would be EXTINCT.

[Anonymous No.8626440]

>>8626409
>What difference does it make?
It might make a difference in how well people do in their everyday life and it can cause poverty etc.

It can play a significant part in why the black population of America does not do as well. But you are not allowed to say that. And social policies and solutions to the problem of "black poverty" is being tried out, but if they pretend the problem is something else then how can they come up with a proper solution?

And even worse in in these times of increased polarity, they blame it on racism and oppression and use it to fuel aggression and conflict and to build up pathological political movements that will end up in totalitarian nightmares. (sjw-ism etc)

[Anonymous No.8626441]

>>8626401
>uses the word race in a quasi-scientific context when its common use doesn't adequately reflect the subspecies of homo sapiens
>talks about intelligence

[Anonymous No.8626448]

>>8626436
I think they realize it in, say, inner-city schools of mixed-race student body. They see the whites and asians learning quicker than they do. I have no doubt that most of them internalize it to some degree.

[Anonymous No.8626449]

>>8626439
*Shrugs again*
Could be enviromental conditions not being as favorable to the formation of civilization.

Again, I'm not going either way, I don't have a good reason to.

[Anonymous No.8626453]

>>8626437

[Anonymous No.8626454]

>>8626448
I just don't think they have the mental capacity to register such complex ideas.

[Anonymous No.8626456]

>>8626401
How many races do you believe exist?

[Anonymous No.8626458]

>>8626456
Australoids, Capoids, Congoids, Caucasians and Mongoloids.
All have further subdivisions, obviously.

[Anonymous No.8626459]

>>8626456
White
Black
Asian
Latinos
Jews
Arabs
Mongols

I'm redpilled btw

[Anonymous No.8626466]

Why do people praise The Bell Curve but shit on Guns, Germs and Steel?

[Anonymous No.8626469]

>>8626449
Doubtful. Agriculture is the gateway to civilization, and they were unable to even establish that.

And I understand what you're saying. I, too, WANT to believe in the intellectual equality of the races. I'd rather have it that way, desu. It's not an OMG IM DA SUPERIOR WHITE MAN pride thing with me, but an acceptance of a very unpleasant fact with dire implications for the future of civilization.

[Anonymous No.8626474]

>>8626401
>It would be a healthy thing for society to accept this fact sooner rather than later
I'm inclined to disagree. It might be true that on average East Asian people have greater potential to be intelligent and Australian Aborigenes have less potential, but given how these things work out people would just interpret this as validating their belief that 'black people are stupid'. Which wouldn't be healthy at all.

[Anonymous No.8626475]

>>8626453
How is this a bait? Do you believe that there aren't?
Are you that delusional?

[Anonymous No.8626482]

>>8626459
Wow. What race are Indian people then? Are Han Chinese the same race as Malays?

[Anonymous No.8626485]

>>8626469
>It's not an OMG IM DA SUPERIOR WHITE MAN pride thing with me
Just as well, because East Asians win.

[Anonymous No.8626486]

>>8626401
Most blacks in the US are boxed with tight-nit ghetto 'communities' that basically serve as a sort of perpetual preservation state for poverty, crime and low-education individuals, unlike other impoverished areas that are more spread out and have sort of "disconnect" between their poverty and their education and facilities. Basically similar conditions that the Banlieue in France serve to create Islamic terror etc. through a condensed community that is cut off in big way from the rest of society. So of course being 'trapped' within the majority of US blacks are going to come out on the other end less educated than the rest of the country.

[Anonymous No.8626490]

>>8626469
>Why did they never establish agriculture?
Option one: They never had a fucking reason to. There was never enough of a scarcity of meat and collectibles or fertile enough soil to give people who switched to that an advantagem thus, they stuck to the most efficient method.
Option two: They couldn't.
I'm honestly trying to apply Okkham's here, but both options require me to assume a lot. So I keep neutral.

[Anonymous No.8626491]

>>8626469
>dire implications
Why?

[Anonymous No.8626493]

>>8626466
For a while, it was the other way around. Liberals would quote Diamond's rather sloppy work as if it were holy writ all the while going SEE WE'RE ALL EQUAL IT'S SCIENCE NOW!!

Environmental factors, my ass. You couldn't ask for a better environment for civilization to flourish than southern Africa, which has every advantage and resource. If a more intelligent race were indigenous to that region, it would've likely developed to the degree of Egypt or Sumer.

[Anonymous No.8626499]

>>8626466
Because you're on 4chan, friend.

[Anonymous No.8626500]

>>8626421
>Europeans have Neanderthal genes, which if anything, should lower the IQ

while it's still a matter of study what fitness advantage interbreeding with Neanderthals provided to proto-Europeans, I've seen it hypothesized that it could be Neanderthals have larger craniums

larger craniums from Neanderthals + greater surface area from Cro-Magnon brains = greater potential for intelligence to be selected for

did you know that the innovation of cooking our meat was a crucial condition of selection for intelligence? cooked meat means less effort required by the jaws and teeth to eat, means less of the cranium is devoted to eating, means more space for the brain to grow

one of the upper limits on human intelligence is the birth canal - can't have a head bigger than can safely pass through a birth canal

like OP said, the evidence demonstrating significant differences in IQ between racial groups as a result of different selection pressures over a period of thousands of years is indubitable. denying human neurodiversity is an implicit denial of the theory of evolution (which predicts that we should observe precisely these differences between human groups, e.g. allopatric speciation)

human biology is this age's heliocentrism, we probably won't be able to accept the ramifications as a society until a bunch of people get killed for it

[Anonymous No.8626502]

>>8626475
You're adding nothing to the discussion and posting emotionally-driven drivel designed to provoke angry responses, coming off as an insecure example of the African diaspora or one of their apologists.

If it's not bait, what is it?

[Anonymous No.8626506]

>>8626491
White people are being raised to feel sorry for themselves, stop breeding and let the wonderful, poor, oppressed, noble and lionized brown people inherit the earth.

[Anonymous No.8626507]

>>8626401
>It would be a healthy thing for society to accept this fact sooner rather than later.

It's actually irrelevant to societal progress.

You construct a meritorious society which allows the best of your populous to rise to the top, irrespective of race or gender. That they are the best, is all that matters.

Focusing on race is for plebs who need validation. The best of white Europeans, or of any gene pool, can stand on their own merit. They don't need merit ascribed to them because of their heritage.

It's the normies, who have no substantial value of their own, who need to focus on the merit of their race as a whole.

[Anonymous No.8626508]

>>8626502
>wahhhh wahh wah!!! why are you being MEEeEeAaaaANN !!!!!!
do you know where you are you limp wristed pussy fag? grow some thicker skin or kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.8626513]

>>8626493
Both books are a result of bad science though.

[Anonymous No.8626514]

>>8626506
Damn, that would be pretty dire if it were true. But anyway, even if that were true humanity will be fine because we've still got China. It's not like white people have the highest IQs anyway.

Also
>brown people
What's the average IQ of people from South Asia and the Middle East? /pol/ always bangs on about Africans.

[Anonymous No.8626516]

>>8626490
It's just too convenient, for me, that the races statistically scoring the lowest on IQ tests just happen to be the ones who, left on their own, either never moved out of the hunter-gatherer phase or, at most, developed rudimentary, primitive forms of agriculture and livestock raising. That's what gives "they couldn't" the edge for me.

[Anonymous No.8626525]

>>8626508
>wahhhh science hurts my feelings MUH DIK MUH DIK MUH DIK!!!!!!

FTFY

[Anonymous No.8626526]

>>8626513
The Bell Curve is the greatest and most scientific book of all time.

It has been proven right time and time again.

See Africa? See Europe? Compare developments. Case closed

Sorry to hurt your feelings. Sorry not sorry

[Anonymous No.8626529]

>>8626502
>You're adding nothing to the discussion
You provided no impetus for a discussion, fuckwit. Your thinly veiled /pol/ shit thread has no arguments and no facts except for the
>lol I did ma research :D
History proves that geopolitical factors weigh in vastly more to the success of any civilization than lousy genetic make-up. For example, the striking similary in the industrial/naval success of the british and the japanese, two island nations that enjoyed relative peace from outside distrubances. Ofcourse some races on average will come out smarter than other, it's statically impossible for 7 billion strong population to be equal in all things, does it matter?

[Anonymous No.8626531]

>>8626516
Eh, opinions.
>>8626500
>Bigger craniums=better intelligence
I'm sorry if that's a strawman, but that's what I'm reading.
>Denying human neurodiversity
Nobody's doing that, people are questioning the extent of that.

[Anonymous No.8626532]

>>8626526
>the greatest and most scientific book of all time
These Trumpisms have to end. I'll build a wall, and I'll make /pol/ pay for it.

[Anonymous No.8626535]

>>8626506

I suspect that the ideology of racism and its associated feelings are only epiphenomenal

civilization passes through eugenic and dysgenic phases - we are (quite obviously) in a dysgenic phase now

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/articles/Weiss,%20Volkmar.%20%22The%20Population%20Cycle%20Drives%20Human%20History%20_%20from%20a%20Eugenic%20Phase%20into%20a%20Dysgenic%20Phase%20and%20Eventual%20Collapse.%22%20The%20Journal%20of%20Social,%20Political%20and%20Economic%20Studies%2032%20(2007).pdf

anyone in this thread should check that out, and perhaps the rest of his work, it's some good shit

http://www.v-weiss.de/publ-e.html

[Anonymous No.8626539]

>>8626514
It's true that East Asians have higher IQs statistically, but the difference between them and whites is far more marginal than between whites and blacks, and a drop compared to the ocean between whites and Aborigines.

That said, white, European civilization, despite lower IQs overall, far more complex and filled with achievement than its east-asian counterpart, so IQ isn't everything.

[Anonymous No.8626540]

>>8626401
>I was wondering if there were any cogent, scientific arguments to the contrary
The Mismeasurement of Man is the response you're looking for. I haven't read it because frankly I don't care, but it was written as a refutation of the Bell Curve. Which I've also not read.

>broadly speaking, some races are smarter than others. It would be a healthy thing for society to accept this fact sooner rather than later.
Socioeconomically speaking, what would that look like? Presuming that society establishes some form of racial hierarchy and says "okay, these guys are smarter than these guys, and these guys are smartest, and these guys are dumbest" and that's established as some dumbass legislation, what is it you're gesturing towards? Should non-whites not work certain jobs? Or not go to school? Growing up in SoCal, going to college here, working a dozen jobs, being involved in church and other social involvements, racial discrimination is literally the lowest form of discrimination. You couldn't be a bigger idiot.
There are black people smarter than you will ever be.
There are Latinos more proud and loving of their home and culture than youre even capable of feeling.
Somehow in some strenuous and intricate string of events you could very easily owe your life to medical technology developed by people that you call "mudslides". People who devoted their education to help you.

Instead of evading the fact that you're an intellectually lazy piece of shit by pushing everyone but yourself down, why don't you make the effort to be a better person and lift yourself up. I promise you'll be happier for it.

[Anonymous No.8626543]

>>8626539
East Asians have higher IQs statistically. They also have much harsher study habits. And if you want to look at history, well....

[Anonymous No.8626544]

>>8626539
>far more complex and filled with achievement

[Anonymous No.8626545]

>>8626516
Not that anon, but don't you think that you could have cause and effect the wrong way round here? I.e. those areas were historically underdeveloped, are currently poor with crappy education systems, and therefore the people living there tend to be less intelligent.

[Anonymous No.8626549]

>>8626531

>Bigger craniums=better intelligence
>I'm sorry if that's a strawman, but that's what I'm reading.

bigger craniums do correlate to higher intelligence

they are a necessary but insufficient condition to greater intelligence

I hope the reason is obvious enough

>Denying human neurodiversity
>Nobody's doing that

have you ever spoken to a normie? do you realize our entire education system is predicated on the assumption that neurodiversity plays no significant role in educational and financial outcomes?

have you read the Constitution? do you realize that a lot of people *really do* believe that all humans are essentially the same, and *all* differences are only the product of their environment?

shit dude, this better be fucking bait

[Anonymous No.8626557]

That book is shit because:

1. Heritability estimates are sample estimates, not population estimates
2. Variation within groups doesn't imply variation between groups

It's shitty pseudoscience that cleverly seduces brainlets because they know jack shit about statistics, psychology and genetics.

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-67-2-130.pdf

[Anonymous No.8626558]

>>8626557
(((Apa)))

[Anonymous No.8626561]

>>8626539
>IQ isn't everything
Heh, funny you should suddenly say that. Anyone would think you started from the premise 'my skin colour is the bestest' and then looked for whatever might support it.

>European civilization, despite lower IQs overall, far more complex and filled with achievement than its east-asian counterpart
China was more 'complex and filled with achievement' than Europe in most ways right up until the last few centuries.

[Anonymous No.8626563]

>>8626540
>Mudslides
*mudslimes lmao

[Anonymous No.8626565]

>>8626540
Okay, you didn't read any of the pertinent material, and every argument you have provided is anecdotal in nature. Good for you.

Accepting that the state of Black ghettos is a result of low intelligence instead of MUH INSTITUTIONAL RACISM LOL is a step in the right direction. How could it be otherwise?

[Anonymous No.8626566]

>>8626558
So?

[Anonymous No.8626567]

I subscribe to the great man theory, so why should racial averages matter to me? As far as I'm concerned, all races are capable of producing intellectually superior deviants, given enough population

[Anonymous No.8626568]

>>8626540
>Socioeconomically speaking, what would that look like?

for starters, we could measure students individually using a small battery of IQ tests, and then promote them to education tracks that suit their abilities

you can measure an individual's IQ directly, you don't even need to consider their race when making such a decision

any "racial hierarchy" that might develop will be predicated on innate differences between those groups

for example, Jews are obviously at the top; although they are only 1.4% of the population, they comprise more than half of the 1% in the US: this can be very easily explained by the fact that as a group they have a mean IQ of 105 - which is quite substantial

other comparable groups are Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, who also socioeconomically outperform whites, Hispanics, and blacks

but you knew that, right?

[Anonymous No.8626571]

>>8626401
>ot a /pol/tard, but I was wondering if there were any cogent, scientific arguments to the contrary

Sounds like you're looking for >>>/sci/

Saged, hidden, and reported.

[Anonymous No.8626573]

>>8626549
>bigger craniums do correlate to higher intelligence
Explain women pls.
>have you ever spoken to a normie?
Shit dude sorry, I thought we were ignoring autism like we generally do.

[Anonymous No.8626581]

>>8626568
>measuring capability with IQ tests
Ask a psych professor why that won't work

[Anonymous No.8626583]

>>8626561
>China was more 'complex and filled with achievement' than Europe in most ways right up until the last few centuries.

Funny that China wasn't a food secure nation until the 20th century and that white devil Norman Borlaug with his Green Revolution. Literally subject to periodic famine for, let's see, ALL OF ITS HISTORY till then. Try again.

[Anonymous No.8626585]

>>8626573
>Explain women pls.

explain what precisely

>Shit dude sorry, I thought we were ignoring autism

I'm not really sure what you mean

[Anonymous No.8626595]

>>8626565
>Accepting that the state of Black ghettos is a result of low intelligence instead of MUH INSTITUTIONAL RACISM LOL is a step in the right direction. How could it be otherwise?
God damn this is weapons-grade autism.
the ONLY way you could believe this to be true is if you had absolutely no idea what you were talking about, which is becoming increasingly obvious

[Anonymous No.8626596]

>>8626566
(((You)))

[Anonymous No.8626603]

>>8626581

it does work

performance on an IQ test correlates to substantial outcomes

psychometrics is actually the best replicated in the whole field of psychology

I'm actually acquainted with a few psych professors and researchers, ironically, and a lot of this I learned from them

but yes, I do realize that the average psych prof is a complete shitstain

[Anonymous No.8626605]

>>8626585
*Sighs*
Women-men IQ difference not being on the same level as White-Black IQ difference in regards to cranium size differences.

[Anonymous No.8626608]

>>8626583
>nation
Wut. Try 'empire'.

Also, was premodern Europe not subject to periodic famine?

[Anonymous No.8626614]

>>8626595

Sounds like somebody got triggered.

But to reiterate, yes. LOWER INTELLIGENCE, lower impulse control, and lesser abilities to delay gratification. What, they're so bad because of mean white KKKops? Is that what you have? You are an emotionally-driven tool and your bag of tricks is empty.

[Anonymous No.8626636]

>>8626608
Of course it was, but unlike the Chinese, for whom famine was an accepted and expected part of life, it was in Europe most always due to aberrant factors such as phytophthora infestans, for example, in the case of the Irish potato famine.

[Anonymous No.8626641]

>>8626526
>see Africa? see Europe?

Let's just gloss over the part Europe played, and plays, in destabilizing the African continent.

[Anonymous No.8626653]

>>8626603
well I suppose it's my anecdotal evidence against yours, because I've spoken to two psych professors from two schools and they both insisted that IQ testing is an inappropriate means of measuring a person's capabilities, something supported in both textbooks I used and on various articles, although I'm sure you've read the opposes views.

Another bit of story, I just had midterms. I showed up to both midterms late, they were already taking the test. I was the first one to finish by a landslide and aced both tests. From the perspective of my professors and psychologists, I could show potential for a genius level IQ, except I'm not actually all that brilliant.
I'm just an autodidact. I don't have to study, I just read it once and that's that.
I don't actually have the skills to back it(I'm stem, skills are relevant here).
Any sit-down-and-write-answers psychometric testing is too limited to be taken seriously

[Anonymous No.8626654]

>>8626641
...you serious? okay, say we were to go back in time before all those horrible mean white colonialists? Were there super advanced civilizations in sub-saharan Africa before then? Seriously, take your straw man and go home.

[Anonymous No.8626656]

>>8626605

male skulls tend to be slightly larger than female skulls, on average

do you mean that, why doesn't this manifest in an observable IQ gap? because cranium size isn't the only thing that goes into IQ

what you do observe between men and women is that men have a higher standard deviation; meaning you find more men at the top and bottom of the bell curve than in women

women are, on average, more average

there are more men in prison, more men who are millionaires

there are more men suffering from mental health issues, more men in (elite) sciences

there are more men who are homeless, more men who sleep with a thousand of the other sex

it seems probable (though unproven) that the y chromosome is responsible for greater variation in men's outcomes; women have two x chromosomes, which could imply redundancy: more likely to not be stupid, but less likely to be a genius

this what you're getting at?

[Anonymous No.8626669]

>>8626636
>unlike the Chinese, for whom famine was an accepted and expected part of life

lolwut

famines in China were the result of interference in agricultural production by the communists: I even suspect it was an intentional effort by Mao to reduce the population so that resources could be saved for other projects such as rapidly modernizing China

otherwise, the Chinese had pretty much always had a very effective water transportation system in addition to a wide geographic area

if one area experienced famine, it was unlikely that another area was also experiencing famine and surplus rice could be inexpensively transported across hundreds of miles

you should check it out, the history is actually pretty cool (but then I'm autistic)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canal_(China)

[Anonymous No.8626672]

>>8626424
I'm not implying that at all, simply that it doesn't matter. Work with what you got, whatever it is, same as the next guy.

>>8626440
It might be better to study history for that. I'm glad you are concerned to make their lives better though.

Not my point anyway.

[Anonymous No.8626691]

>this thread

lol, literally NO cogent arguments against the race/intelligence correlation. A couple of sad, emotionally driven MUH ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS attempts. But yeah, sorry.

Asians are a little bit smarter than whites. Both are a lot smarter than blacks. Everyone's smarter than Aborigines and San bushmen.

[Anonymous No.8626695]

>>8626653

my anecdotal experience largely agrees with you, desu, I had to search out opposing viewpoints but once I found them and recognized that the psychometricians made solid, testable predictions that held up*, I couldn't but change my mind

story: I did have a psych prof who was basically the same as your two. got into an argument in class about differences in performance as a result of IQ, I got him to argue that evolution has no impact on human biology: nice to think I helped some others to see through his bullshit

>Any sit-down-and-write-answers psychometric testing is too limited to be taken seriously

lol I know, it still surprises me sometimes but actually those paper-and-pencil tests can be used (when averaging together) to derive substantial predictions that are confirmed by observation

it's just like taking a measurement of the velocity and trajectory of a stone and predicting where it will land, and finding that the formula giving the prediction is validated by observation

for consideration: academic outcomes for a school can be reliably predicted by analyzing the IQ composition of its students (also reliably predicated by ethnicity, which serves as a decent proxy for IQ). we keep making changes to environment, but that variable seems to yield no difference. why is that?

further: controlling for SES, we still observe similar gaps in performance and outcomes between whites and blacks. why doesn't environment exert a larger effect?

[Anonymous No.8626731]

>>8626526
> See Africa? See Europe? Case closed.

You don't find that at all intellectually shallow?

[Anonymous No.8626748]

>>8626731
How could he? Poor boy's outside his...depth. *nudge, nudge, chuckle*

[Anonymous No.8626750]

>>8626656
No, I was suggesting that, if cranium size mattered as much as you suggest, then the difference between male iq and female iq would be even bigger than the one between white iq and black iq.
>>8626691
lol
>>8626653
Muh emotional intelligence lol

[Anonymous No.8626760]

>>8626731
No.
This may come as a surprise to someone brought up in our cowardly liberal-dominated universities, but sometimes things really ARE as they appear. A is A.

[Anonymous No.8626781]

>>8626750

as I said anon, it is crucial but insufficient

for instance, there are also male/female differences in the cerebral cortex, in the volume and proportion of grey and white matter, difference in the thickness of the skull, speed and duration of maturation, and so on

these all have an influence in addition to cranium size