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/lit/ - Literature

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8514374 No.8514374 [Reply] [Original]

how important is free speech to you, anon?

>> No.8514395

Free speech for it's own sake is standard moralism that is widely upheld but universally condemned in practice by everyone. I will gladly support using violence to silence my political opposites if they're dangerous enough and they will do the same to me. The fact that they would cry about "free speech" if they were on the receiving end of repression doesn't change that.

>> No.8514407

>>8514374
>>8514395
Extremely, I couldn't live in a world where I wasn't able to call you both faggots.

>> No.8514415

>>8514374
free speech is a patriarchal invention that belongs in the 20th century

>> No.8514420

more important than free speech.. is actually having something to say that's worth hearing. "I don't like the new batman films" doesn't count.

>> No.8514424

>>8514415
so under a matriarchy we wouldn't be allowed to criticize the leaders? you must be some kind of gaslighting macho asshole.

>> No.8514463

>>8514395

For years and years and years it was the political left that suffered under censorship. The boot is on the other foot now though. The hilarious irony of it is that they deny that free speech is even being restricted.

>You have free speech! You can say whatever you like, as long as it's not racist, sexist, Islamophobic, transphobic or ableist!

Hoo boy.

>> No.8514684

>>8514463
>censorship

>> No.8515491

It's not even real.

>> No.8515497

Very important. That includes "hate speech".

t. Communist

>> No.8515499

Apolitically correct

>> No.8515504

>>8514374
It's nice. But I kinda care more about the fact that I'm uncomfortable sitting here in shit stained underwear and wondering what I should have breakfast tomorrow, so it's hard to get worked up about it.

>> No.8515505

>>8514374
I sorely need it as I am a dumb person living in a peaceful country.

>> No.8515506

>>8514463

You can say whatever you like, you cuck, you just have to deal with being called out on it and criticized sometimes. Sorry your opinions are unpopular, but that doesn't = """censorship""".

This is why I don't take "muh free speech is eroding" seriously. Everyone who thinks that clearly has no idea what that term means.
For example, Twitter banning users that harass other users or promote terrorism or threaten violence is not cutting off anyone's right to free speech. Youtube still allowing your videos and just not *paying you* to post them anymore is not limiting your free speech (this was an actual fucking complaint).

>> No.8515515

>>8515497
fuck you you white male

>> No.8515533

>>8515506

>you just have to deal with being called out on it and criticized sometimes

And being harassed/doxxed, threatened with losing your job, etc.

But you forget to mention that, didn't you? I'm sure you'll whip out the legalese and insist that the 1st Amendment/etc only applies to government/state censorship, completely ignoring the spirit of such things in doing so.

"""Unpopular""" opinions can only be expressed nowadays on the condition that you have a shitload of 'fuck you' money to fall back on. If you think that's 'free speech', be my guest. Meanwhile, you can come out with whatever politically correct/Tumblrite shit you please and worst case scenario, nobody bats an eye.

>> No.8515541
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8515541

The whole idea of 'rights' is, by definition, a spook.

>> No.8515549

>>8515533
I express my opinions all the time and no one even listens or knows who I am.

>> No.8515554

>>8514374
not very.

No one listens to a word I say and only fools speak freely.

>> No.8515569

Free speech is probably the only cause I'd openly fight for desu

>> No.8515570

>>8514374
very but I wish it did not protect accidental lies the way it does not protract deliberate lies

>> No.8515575

>>8515533
Even losing your job isn't taking away your free speech, technically, but I also do think you're blowing the risk out of proportion because of like four noted cases of that happening. Nobody really cares about what you post to your 65 followers on Twitter.

Not to mention that the only times I've ever seen anyone "doxxed" it wasn't by liberals/PC tumblr types. It's usually some dude doxxing or harassing a woman for some dumb reason.

>> No.8515578

>>8514424
not knowing meme speech
>>8514420
value of words is subjective. I find that in word trash the true freedom can be found because the censors always start with the low quality stuff because no one has the spine to stand up and say "I like my ecchi shit and you can fuck the right off" on and on it goes till your "worthy" work is put to the fire as well

>> No.8515587

>>8514374
It is essential for the proper functioning of a democratic republic. Conflict is inevidible in politics, but that conflict is channeled into our institutions where there are rules and standards, where there are officials responsibile for upholding those rules and standards, and it is here where informed debate allows superior ideas to triumph, thus creating policy. (Not to say officials themselves cannot be won over to support contrary or obstructive interests.)

Sadly when it comes to the media, whose responsibility is to inform the public, the same does not apply. New organizations are beholden to no interests but their own, which is determined at anytime by who posses the majority of its shares. The publics collective convictions form the conscience of a nation, and if those convictions are skewed in respect to the facts and events of reality, self government ceases to be effective.

Robust public discussion, based in reality, that adheres to constitutional precepts is essential in either case, where the citizens are the guardians of their own Liberty and willing enough to accept that authority.

Most of the attention attributed to matters of free speech are distractions devised to erode public confidence this, their own basic right. And yes, it is worth dying for.

>> No.8515591

>>8515506
I think government failing to protect its people from mobs hounding them and getting them fired/so stress they dump their job can be seen as censorship.Tell me what Dr. Dale Brigham did
>Twitter banning users that harass other users or promote terrorism or threaten violence is not cutting off anyone's right to free speech
twitter has blacklists of people based on ideology

>> No.8515596

free speech is an ideal that I'd like to be see realised and something I used to believe in no matter what
but if leftists want to take away my speech I am more than happy to see theirs taken away and the right has let itself be backed into a corner because of its empty moralising

>> No.8515599

>>8515533
through courts censorship laws can apply to other parties as well

>> No.8515602

>>8515549
so you have nothing to lose and no people to influence with your words. That is like saying "if you want free speech go into the woods and talk all you want"

>> No.8515607

very, but racists and bigots should be arrested for espousing their extremist views

hate speech =/= free speech

>> No.8515609

>>8515575
>Nobody really cares about what you post to your 65 followers on Twitter.
your argument is basically that as long as you have no influence no one will come for you. Which is bullshit argument and also not true since "racistsgettingfired" seems to hound everyone from daycare providers to high school interns and they are only one of the many groups doing it
>Even losing your job isn't taking away your free speech
yep, same way breaking your legs does not hurt your ability to speak

>> No.8515615

People want freedom of speech, but never the freedom to think! This is sad, in so many ways; we are forced to eat from the bucket of ideology without any concern if it minds us. There is no longer a true opinion, it's all mudded with the remnants of ideology.

You, wanting a freedom to call someone a degradation of their true self -- are criticized by one end of all isms.
Wanting a conversation about the injustices, be they rightful or not -- and the other end of the horseshoe bites!

Sad! Truly sad!

>> No.8515620

I'm here from /pol/ someone redpill me on Julius Evola

>> No.8515624

>>8515575
>Not to mention that the only times I've ever seen anyone "doxxed" it wasn't by liberals/PC tumblr types. It's usually some dude doxxing or harassing a woman for some dumb reason.
oh please show me your examples. I wonder how many of those examples are made up bullshit by the women so they can shill their victim narrative for patreon money. youtube even has some famous people needlessly reporting others videos. here is another surprise both sides have male and female people in their groups

>> No.8515632

>>8515587
>Not to say officials themselves cannot be won over to support contrary or obstructive interests.
unless you have money
>media
What about universities and other organizations?

>> No.8515634

>>8515569
So no opinion on all the other constitutional rights, you only care about the trendy one. Gotcha.

>> No.8515635

Most people have fuck all to say apart from yay/nay *insert rationalization here*

>> No.8515645

>>8515596
>implying that is how it would work
your speech would be hate speech and theirs would just be speech. when people say "you can't be racist towards white people" only half of those are jokes. progressive stack is used in many aspects of their policy
>>8515607
even if they have not committed any acts of aggression

>> No.8515649

>>8515635
lol, and in what way are you different

>> No.8515651

>>8515645
>even if they have not committed any acts of aggression
forgot the ?

>> No.8515657

>>8515645
I didn't imply that at all
in fact I realise that's how it works and believe in direct action against it

>> No.8515658

>>8515609
Do you think there would ever be a situation where you would want to fire somebody for voicing any kind of opinion? Any at all?

I've seen people fired for insulting their company or talking shit about their boss and around 100% of responses are "well what did you expect" "you deserved it" "good riddance". Under the guise off "well, it hurts the business/makes them look bad". Employing someone who has, say, nazi affiliations? Same thing.

>> No.8515659

>>8515635
What would we ever do without you o great arbiter

>> No.8515660

>>8515609
I hate you victim wannabes tbqh. Such huge persecution complexes.

>> No.8515682

>>8515624
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=woman+doxxed

>"women are such liars and whores"
>taking this shit outside of your /pol/ containment system

>> No.8515686

>>8515658
>Do you think there would ever be a situation where you would want to fire somebody for voicing any kind of opinion? Any at all?
most defiantly but I should not be allowed to. as long as someone is fulfilling their duties to a standard required of other employees I should not be able to fire them. if you really hate them think of them as the disable, you sometimes have quotas for the disabled because everyone needs jobs so if your worker is right wing,left wing, furry, etc you don't get to fired them just for that. hell how many programs do you see about how ex convicts need jobs and we should give them a chances but you are willing to fire people over their ideology? Max you should able to do is require them to keep it out of the workplace by not proselytizing to those who don't wish to speak on the subjects. companies don't give a shit about individuals, especially low level individuals who are not key players in the company so they will easily dump you for few extra PR points as long as its not likely to get them into legal hot water

>> No.8515704

>>8515658
>around 100% of responses
well people shitpost on the internet. % is usually around 70% and posts are usually shit like
>my boss did not let my go to my sick father and he died so I punched him in the face
>or my dog died and he would not let me go
I also read posts like "who cares what government does to your dead body, its not yours once you are dead" and various other ignorant shit. If such retardation are made into law and people are punished crimes of their ancestors,guilty by association, mob rule because people unfamiliar with the case did not like the sentence length then we surly are on our way to doom

>> No.8515712

>>8515649
Me? That I understand human nature and can see through it e.g. everyone's cognitive biases including my own. It's my greatest gift actually.

Also I don't bark at things I don't understand like a dog. That alone puts me at about 99.997th percentile of pure fucking intellect quotient.

I hope that answers your question.

>> No.8515714

>>8515659
I don't know, probably fucking around with protopsychoanalysis a la Stirner.

>> No.8515716

If your "free speech" encroaches on other peoples free speech, then it isn't free speech.

>> No.8515721

>>8515660
its not persecution complex when there is evidences for it. here is a look at real persecution complex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdDiiUC6784
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmfbiNbw5o

>> No.8515731

>>8515686
>as long as someone is fulfilling their duties to a standard required of other employees I should not be able to fire them.

being this naive

>> No.8515735

>>8515682
Im getting shit about Wikileaks and Turkish women. if you have claims to make about some specific women being Doxxed then name them, also how does this imply that it only happens to women is beyond me.
>"women are such liars and whores"
#NotAll but seriously many dime store "celebrities" make shit up for views and support. 1 even throw a brick into her own car (her fans got her a new car to show dem misogynists )

>> No.8515747

>>8515731
That is how it should be at least on paper. We should fight this type of mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina
instead of welcoming it into civil life as a given.

>> No.8515759

>>8515747
>comparing russian army hazing to common workplace courtesy

>> No.8515794

4chan is a great example of free speech in practice: a massive sea of worthless piss which is most likely responsible for causing a good degree of mental degeneration.
Heavily moderating speech and regulating it to a certain standard on the other hand can actually increase standards and prevent mental degeneracy.
Trying to justify free speech on a utilitarian basis is wrong and its psychotherapeutic effects go both ways.

>> No.8515812

>>8515759
punishing people for stuff not in the regulations is not "common workplace courtesy" hell I even said you could ask them to keep it out of the workplace but you can't just fire people because you found a facebook post that did not agree with your politics or lifestyle

>> No.8515817

>>8515812
nor should you dump them if someone calls the workplace about those posts.

>> No.8515822

>>8514374
Complete free speech is fucked up nigga like niggas can promote propoganda and ruin the country

>> No.8515823

>>8515794
said he while posting on 4chan
>increase standards
The old "censorship makes us more inventive"

>> No.8515835

>>8515822
one one is stopping you from starting counter propaganda. like with politics its about who actually cares enough about their shit to do something about it(to vote, to go door to door talking about your candidate,etc) and if you don't have free time you can drop a dime to unemployed arts majors who now make their living by being agitators

>> No.8515849

>>8515835
propaganda doesn't listen to reason my nigga
riots
anarchy
inner beast unleashed

>> No.8515911
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8515911

>>8515823
But it's actually true. Take Russian cinema which went to complete shit in the 90s after the Soviet censorship was dropped or faux retro video games which are all shit compared to real classics because they aren't FORCED by actual NECESSITY to work under restraints.
The effect of liberalism can only be the build up of a perverse and paradoxical desire for a society (Theocratic/Stalinist/Nazi/whatever) that denies ones own basic right to even exist... we need strong political regimes occasionally that regulate the lifestyle of artists to force them to create real masterpieces.

>> No.8515912

reminder that spending money to influence elections is a form of constitutionally protected free speech in the US

>> No.8515944

>>8515911
soviet realism almost killed art.
>cinema which went to complete shit in the 90s
yeah im sure it had nothing to do with overall situation at the time.
>real classics because they aren't FORCED by actual NECESSITY to work under restraints.
you don't force true art. If people are lazy and unwilling to put in the work needed without being forced to do so than they are no masters. also you would note that most classics were not made in totalitarian states or are know for their defiance of regulations

>> No.8515973

>>8515944
True art is only ever forced or a reaction; everything else is just infantile liberal hedonist garbage, that's why post-modern permissiveness is so dangerous

>> No.8516034

>>8515973
this

>>8515944
there is a big difference between saying most classics (i.e., part of the canon) were not made in totalitarian states, and that no great works were made in totalitarian states

>> No.8516073

Free speech is just as important to me as the ability to own a weapon. One defends the other, even when I don't approve

>> No.8516104
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8516104

>>8516073

Holy shit I'm bleeding from all that edge.

>> No.8516114

>>8516034
>there is a big difference between
well that is what I said. in this context it does not even matter since the other guy says "True art is only ever forced or a reaction" to which you both agreed to

>> No.8516291
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8516291

>>8514684

"Hate speech" is literally a crime in many countries, and the definition of "hate speech" goes beyond incitement to violence. In 2014 British man was arrested for quoting Churchill in public.

>>8515506

>You can say whatever you like, you cuck, you just have to deal with being called out on it and criticized sometimes

Keep hitting that strawman buddy. You're also wrong by the way, protection against the Heckler's Veto is part of free speech, and in many cases no-platforming disrupts events that private venues had already approved. It's funny how twitter only bans white males. There were dozens of Muslim accounts celebrating the Orlando shooting, yet afaik none of them were banned. If twitter "censorship" was applied fairly, it wouldn't be an issue.

I mean I know it's fun to try to out-contrarian the contrarians on 4chan but you're making yourself look like an idiot.

>> No.8516451

>>8515634
>Trendy
It was the first amendment. The first thing that the founding fathers found most important to include, the one thing that was the most widely agreed upon in the second constitutional convention. The one amendment that regardless of race, creed, or political alignment, is agreed upon as being the most fundemntal right of each and every citizen, is trendy. Ok, great, maybe it is a "trend" to believe in the most powerful right you can exorcise, but regardless once it stops being a "trend" it will still be important. As long as the US Constitution stands as the single document that exacts more power and control over our government and country than any other person or law then the first amendment will be important.