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/lit/ - Literature

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8293784 No.8293784 [Reply] [Original]

https://leftreferenceguide.wordpress.com/noam-chomsky-reading-list/

What do you think of his list?

>> No.8293798

>only philosophy he recommends is Rousseau

meme tier myopia.

>> No.8293809

>reading nonfiction

Sounds like a pleb to me.

>> No.8293823

>>8293784
chomsky was better when he stuck to linguistics and didn't shill for the left

>> No.8293859

>>8293823
Except that his theory, in most part, turned out to be bullshit.
I do find his stance on foreign policy insightful.

>> No.8293904

This is Tumblr-tier nonsense. I used to think Chomsky advocated freedom, but he's just the opposite extreme from conservatards.

Does anyone really need to be redpilled on the atrocities committed by the U.S. government during wartime? My problem with these types of books is that they don't give you the full picture - i.e. that human nature itself is fucked up, not that any one nationality or culture is at fault. Victim countries of war crimes are, themselves, typically guilty of the very same crimes against other nations. Japan for instance had intern camps, and performed horrific medical experiments on detainees. Of course, let's ignore all that and focus exclusively on the U.S. putting Japanese-American citizens into internment camps. It was reprehensible, but by no means was it exclusive to the U.S. government.

>> No.8293910

>>8293823
>chomsky was better when he stuck to linguistics and didn't shill for the left
The opposite is true.

>> No.8293916

>>8293784
i didnt even look at the books, just the categories
made me cringe

>> No.8293931

I haven't read any of them and I have no real opinion but i am an angry gimp who needs to feel superior and act like I know what I'm talking about so I can enjoy the fantasy of being intellectually dominant over an intellectual.

Chomsky's linguistics though groundbreaking at first has been largely debunked, it is now useless hokum. His politics is just shilling for the regressive middle/middle-left

>> No.8293937

There is some infowar-tier conspirationist stuff in there.

>> No.8293960

>>8293904
>muh human nature
>muh eye for an eye justice
>Does anyone really need to know the truth about the U.S. government's means of prosecuting war?

Jesus FUCKING Christ, this your average world citizen today.

>> No.8294072

>>8293904
>Victim countries of war crimes are, themselves, typically guilty of the very same crimes against other nations. Japan for instance had intern camps, and performed horrific medical experiments on detainees.

If you've read him you'd know that he acknowledges this. And if you can't understand why the standard is higher for nations that can exert, with impunity, their will on the rest of the world, you're hopeless.

(Not to mention the fact that these foreign intrusions on countries wherein atrocities are being committed are often done so under the guise of "humanitarian intervention," even though they generally end up wreaking similarly grievous evil.)

>> No.8294125

Did anybody notice the near complete absence of linguistics texts on this list? I seriously doubt it was created by Noam, more likely some blogger who idolizes him and compiled all the books he ever mentioned in interviews that also happen to fit their own dogmatic leftist worldview

>> No.8294133
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8294133

>>8293784
>Posing as antiestablishment while shilling for globalism, statism and SJWism (ie the establishment)

>> No.8294143

>>8294133
>strawmanning

>> No.8294166

I've always found something quite detestable about Chomsky, but I don't know what. Gives me a bad feeling in my tummy.

>> No.8294174

>>8294143
>implying strawmanning is a bad thing
haha good one

>> No.8294219

>>8294143
It's true tho. Leftists invariably freeze when you drop that logic bomb. It's not about the 'working class' or whatever, most leftists despise the raciss, hetero white, meat eating working class, their new pets are Islamist and rapefugees... It's about the interests of the elite, the bankers, leftist academia, globalists. Leftism has gone mainstream. Nationalists are the real rebels.

>> No.8294257

>>8293823
>call out the greed of the banks and the inherent faults within capitalist society
>leftist, so it must be bad

Dogmatism is the bane of our society.

>> No.8294259

>>8294072
Basically, shrill regressive-left moralising. It's a cult of victimhood. Blaming America/white people for everything, while ignoring or outright justifying the crimes of Marxism and Islam.

>> No.8294265

>>8294072
>If you've read him you'd know that he acknowledges this.

The NYRB just shredded his last book because he DOENST mention shit like this. He will exclude information that compromises his thesis.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/09/a-case-against-america/

>> No.8294361

>>8293798
And Herodotus, blindy. Good choice from back when history was still a form of thinking

>> No.8294412
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8294412

>>8293859
>Except that his theory, in most part, turned out to be bullshit.
develop
The general structure of generative grammar is questionable, but the fact that there is a predisposition to follow certain sound-patters and identify them as language seems undeniable. Saffran experiment has shown that it is part of our genetic makeup to incorporate sound-patterns among many as words as long as they are distinguishable by means of a practically nonexistent difference in the probability to encounter those sounds.

>> No.8294447

funny that he recommends hauser, who is known to have fabricated results and who lost his job at harvard as a result

>> No.8294462

>>8294259
Lol

>>8294265
I can't speak for his whole bibliography, but the work I've read is circumspect and doesn't excuse atrocities committed by any nation

>> No.8294470

>>8294259
Lol

>>8294265
I can't speak for his whole bibliography, but the work I've read is circumspect and doesn't excuse atrocities committed by any nation

>> No.8294474

>>8294259
Lol

>>8294265
I can't speak for his whole bibliography, but
the work I've read is circumspect and doesn't excuse atrocities committed by any nation

>> No.8294478 [DELETED] 

>>8293784
He's a degenerate kike contributing to white genocide.

Try Evola

>> No.8294496
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8294496

can someone please btfo this fag so hard so he finally falls into obscurity
zizek failed

>> No.8294510
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8294510

>no infinte jest

>> No.8294561

>nonfiction

>> No.8295191

>>8294447
I was so hyped to read Moral Minds until I read up on Hauser.

>> No.8295196

>>8294478
>white genocide
That's some pretty strong bait you got there.

>> No.8295207

>>8294447
Wittgenstein was influenced by someone as mad as Weininger and Newton was an alchemist - possibly for the esoteric. You do not have to be right to point in the right direction, oftentimes.

>> No.8295261

>>8294462
>>8294470
>>8294474
I've heard of double posting but this is just retarded.

>> No.8295267

>>8295196
>I don't know what genocide means
>>>/b/

>> No.8295310

>>8294259
lol

>> No.8295604

My cousin is an English teacher in a non English speaking country.
Decades ago Chomsky came to our country when he was mainly known for his work in linguistics, my cousin and her teacher friends spent a lot of money to go to his conference, and all he did was talk about Israel and the Palestinians.

My advice is to ignore him with regards to politics, but read him seriously with regards to linguistics.

>> No.8295626

>>8294133
>>8294478
>follow link to leftreferenceguide
>complain when it turns out to be leftist
???

>> No.8295740

>>8293823
meme opinion

>> No.8295963

>>8293784
his economics list is a sad joke

>> No.8295988

>>8293916
>>8293809
>>8293798
>>8293823
>>8293904
>>8293937
>>8294133
>>8294166
>>8294174
>>8294478
>>8294510
A thread with 50% shitposts.
I know I'm not contributing anything to this thread by posting this, but it frustrates me to no end that actual discussion of OP's subject matter simply doesn't happen here.

>> No.8295991

>>8295963
Why do you think so? What would you take away or add in your own list?

>> No.8295999

>A People’s History of the United States: 1492-Present by Howard Zinn

This is all you need to know about Chomsky.

>>8295988
So fucking discuss it and stop being a whiny bitch.

>> No.8296003

>>8295999
Can you not cuss?

>> No.8296006

>>8296003
What would you like to discuss regarding Chomsky's reading list, sir?

>> No.8296009

>>8296003
>being this much of a bitch

>> No.8296012

>>8296009
Do not attribute false quotes to me.

>> No.8296032

>>8293784
this reading list is pure ideology

>> No.8296399

>>8294412
I agree with >>8293859. His strong nativism set back linguistics, and cognitive science in general for decades.

>the fact that there is a predisposition to follow certain sound-patters and identify them as language seems undeniable
True, but Chomsky says much more than that: he claims that there is a 'universal grammar', or lately he calls it 'language in the narrow sense', which is human-specific set of rules which is not learned, but biologically ingrained, and without which it would be impossible to learn language. This view severely limits the scope of possible explanations of how language is learned, and how language connects with other cognitive domains.
Linguists and psychologists who took a different view were marginalized for decades.

>> No.8296505

>>8296399
>Linguists and psychologists who took a different view were marginalized for decades.
Vast majority of linguists who took another view managed to have way way less sophisticated views of language acquisition tho.

What this is primarily tackling is the whole kids going from no language to having a basic grasp then quickly through a vocab explosion and so on suddenly are very good language speakers. After that there's room to stick in more behaviourist or cognitivist approaches.

I don't think he's wrong. There exists inside us some kind of fundamental circuitry or apparatus for language acquisition. But even now some of the implications of this aren't clear.

>> No.8296536

>>8293784
The list is missing his most recent book

>> No.8296652

>>8296505
>Vast majority of linguists who took another view managed to have way way less sophisticated views of language acquisition tho.
Disagreed. They are just not so popular. Also, they base their proposals on experimental data, which takes time and money to make, and often reconsider based on such data.

>What this is primarily tackling is the whole kids going from no language to having a basic grasp then quickly through a vocab explosion and so on suddenly are very good language speakers.
Not at all. Those are observations that explanations of language acquisition have to account for. E.g., statistical learning models, which are used in other domains (like vision) and explain these phenomena just as well, are discredited by Chomsky. He insists that language is unrelated from any other cognitive domains, and that it is very strictly rule-based. That is what sets his approach apart, at that is where he is wrong.

>> No.8296669

>>8296652
>statistical learning models
It's another guy that thinks shit like PCA or wavelet analysis is real great magic shit but doesn't understand it. Those kinds of analysis are not incompatible with Chomsky. In some ways they're stupidly similar.

What you may be conflating is a statistical behaviourist approach and yeah that's as stupid as it's ever been.

>> No.8296849

>>8293784
Any books on the Khmer Rouge genocide?

>> No.8297507

Chomskyan linguistics is the dominant force in the field today and has been for decades. I honestly don't know where people get the idea that generative grammar has been "debunked," the concept is absolutely essential to modern linguistics. Even Chomsky's fiercest critics accept universal grammar. The parts of Chomsky's linguistic proposals that many linguists disagree with are technical points.

>> No.8297513

>>8293823
>if you say things I dont like you're a shill

>> No.8297520

>>8293904
>I used to think Chomsky advocated freedom
he does, he's an anarchist, he does not believe in the state or corporations
>but he's just the opposite extreme from conservatards.
hurr durr they're the same controlled by the nwo
>during wartime
lolno its a little bit more complicated than that little billy
>they dont give the full picture
they're all about policy and the interests directing that policy
>f course, let's ignore all that and focus exclusively on the U.S.
Well yes, Chomsky is an American citizen and as such he is responsible for its actions
And why do you frame this about war time actions and WWII? Thats not his topic by any stretch of the imagination.
also
>people born in a country are responsible for and deserve to be punished for the actions of another people in another country whom they are distantly related to several generations back
alrighty then

>> No.8297537

>>8293937
such as?

>> No.8297544

>>8294166
he says things you dont like?

>> No.8297546

>>8294219
rightwing incoherent contradictory power worshiping persecution complex 4chan memes are not a logic bomb

>> No.8297547

>>8296669
>>8296652
Do either of you actually know anything about syntax or are you just wikipedia warriors? What do you think of competing approaches to Gapping and Pseudogapping?

>> No.8297559
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8297559

>>8294259
>criticises his own country which he has a duty to first for overthrowing governments, opposing democracy, funding proxy wars, bombing countries
>dude srsly stop being a regressive leftist moralising blaming america! you need to see the real enemy that is marxist islamism

What we have here is the classic Statist for whom there can be no legitimate criticism and all attention must be focused on the actions of others not one self

>> No.8297563

I remember Chomsky used to bitch about sports, then he got rich and now buys lakers season tickets in some of the best seats in the house.

>> No.8297565

>>8294496
It cant be done
anyone who tries to debate him is never heard from again
Richard Perle
That dutch guy in Manufacturing Consent who walked out
Alan Dershowitz
Sam Harris
All stepped into the ring
All destroyed

>> No.8297568

>>8295999
>This is all you need to know about Chomsky.
That he cited a bottom up approach to history that looks at the people ignored from the texts on presidents and generals and businessmen?

>> No.8297577

>>8296849
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3IUU59B6lw
Try to listen to the whole thing and post a reply please

>> No.8297578

>>8297565
>Guy with Linguistics degree steps into a ring with a guy with a Politics, Neuroscience or Law Degree
>This is what Philosophy students masturbate to
And people wonder why philosophy professors are borderline suicidal

>> No.8297580

>>8297507
>I honestly don't know where people get the idea that generative grammar has been "debunked,"
Its an ad hom to dismiss him

>> No.8297581

>>8297578
Well you see Chomsky sticks to the facts and topics and the reality of what is going on
They quickly give up under this assault on their defence of state violence and ideology and flounder about with ad homs and juvenile insults

>> No.8297583

>>8297581
More like "I should've taken Theology instead of this shit, at least people reach their publications".

>> No.8297614

The Politics of Heroin by Alfred W. McCoy ought to be there, he has mentioned that many times

>> No.8297617

>>8297614
it does cite the 90s book White-Out which is basically a rehash of the work of McCoy and Bob Parry and the 1998 inspector general report

>> No.8297650

>>8297547
>>8296669
>>8296652
To clarify, do you have any syntax classes, or did you form your opinions by watching youtube videos and reading wikipedia articles?

>> No.8297851

>>8293809
>>8295988
Mine was not a shitpost. I literally do not see the point in reading that much non fiction, no matter what the books are.

>> No.8297903

>>8297547
I studied a bit of linguistics a while back so I have some idea of Chomsky, and I happen to have done some work with stuff like facial recognition (it sounds more impressive than it is honestly, I did incredibly small scale shit).

I barely touched on things like gapping and pseudogapping. I think in some ways it's overly focused on formal language (like often people in spoken language do much weirder shit, like change subject midway through an utterance or whatever, but it's still arguable that they're making reference to a kind of pure language. That's where I think this really starts to break down as an idea tho.

It's also interesting to me how formally there's pretty good separation between meanings like "James tried to ring me but didn't" and "James tried to ring me but didn't you", and even "James tried to ring me but didn't ring you" have different meanings almost depending on the amount of elision. Like I thought it amazing how it like brings in a possibility of certain kinds of rhetoric and all that.

>> No.8298748

>>8297851
So then we've probably got a thread of 50% Autism but here's a +1 to shitpost, anyway.

My major is linguistics, and I'm naturally skeptical of how much of a god-figure Chomsky is revered as here in this realm (though I haven't read all his work in the field), I do have incredible similarities and appreciations for his train of mind.

Thanks for the link OP, I put some dope sounding titles in my to-buy list. I personally would have expected one Stirner title out of him for a guiding idea.

>> No.8299300

>language acquisition device
>real

>> No.8299519

Why are people so eager to just repeat Zizek without actually looking into the matter and seeing how false the claims Zizek made about him thinking Pol Pot was a good guy are?

>> No.8300055

>>8297851
>I literally do not see the point in reading that much non fiction, no matter what the books are.
to learn you fucking retard
>>8298748
you should question him and not just accept it, thats how science works lol
but you'll find as you question why he is held in such high regard

>> No.8300058

>>8299519
its been going on long before Zizek, check this video >>8297577
its easy to repeat what rightwingers say about someone you dislike
its called confirmation bias

>> No.8300164

>>8297903
and then you have things like
>James tried to ring Laura more than he did Sarah
which are different still.

>> No.8300168
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8300168

>>8299300
topkek nice memes LOLOL

>> No.8300181

I lost a lot of respect for him. He's very myopic if he just reads stuff that he knows he's going to agree with.

>> No.8300494

>>8293784
Honestly if I wanted to read about globalization, anglo-american foreign policy, international finance etc. I'd take the recommendations of a left-wing gatekeeper with a pinch of salt. There are plenty of reliable non-partisan scholars and analysts to offer insights into such topics without having to go through the additional effort of having to filter out the authors biases and ideological slants, while also acknowledging their blind spots when it comes to "no-go" topics.

>> No.8300518

>>8295988
OP's post is bad. It would be more appropriately labeled a shitpost than the ones you've highlighted.