/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

[Anonymous No.8122976]

Dark worlds totally haven't gotten trite yet edition.

Recommendation
>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg/
General: http://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg/
Flowchart: http://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg/
>Sci-Fi
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg/
General: http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg/ / http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg/

[Anonymous No.8122980]

>>8122976
1st for most fun in a long time

[Anonymous No.8122992]

2nd for Brent Weeks and Patrick Rothfuss

[Anonymous No.8122997]

Someone leak The Great Ordeal's ebook already/

[Anonymous No.8122998]

Thought I'd mention www.isfdb.org as it was quite helpful in classifying SFF books that predate standard identification numbers (SBN, ISBN, etc...).

[Anonymous No.8123002]

When is soft Sci-fi bordering on Science Fantasy going to get popular again? All the ultra hard technical SciFi is so dry.

[Ahi Ngakau, Lad of Perfect Tas(...) !Su23DuV66A No.8123005]

What are some good grimdark fantasies out there? Dark Souls, Berserk type stuff. Well written, with nicely crafted dark suits of armor.

[Anonymous No.8123007]

One thing, as a muslim, that bothers me. Is the lack of disturbance towards the concept of terrorism in novels. Seriously, it's like nobody considers it. Especially given how little of a choice there was in whether the terrorists would be born poor and what religion they were raised into. It's terrible psychological horror shit. It's demeaning, dehumanizing, it fucks up the lives of countless forever. It erases your humanity and defeats the point of Islam in the first place. It's just, awful through and through with some positive elements.

But I don't like how it isn't explored, demeaning and terrifying labor my brothers in faith have no choice but to be put through is a concept I don't that's ever been handeled well or properly. Maybe it's me, it's a deep seated personal hatred of conflict instilled by reddit, that men's devotions to their faiths in ways that shouldn't exist in the year 2016, or just their mindless desire for purpose in the present, override our own autonomy and emotions towards others, making you feel like you don't see in them what they see in you, but just as some pests to blow up with yourself and be done with.

I don't know what I'm saying. I just wish terrorists weren't constantly written as "Brown people! That kill iin the name of Allah!", and not facing the grimey slimey disturbing bullshit dealt with is. Or how they're forced into believing its acceptable to take your own life among that of a couple more people in a flaming hot blast, that for some people, and for many people, emotionally wears off. This was even more prevalent in the past I'm assuming given the lack of education involved.

[Anonymous No.8123010]

Any good books with a little girl as protag?

[Anonymous No.8123011]

Dinosaur anon here. Is there some tumblgay user here? They were getting antsy because of the GRI APPROVED meme.

[Anonymous No.8123025]

>>8123005
Someone post the dark souls, berserk meme pic.

[Anonymous No.8123028]

>>8123007
A month or so ago there was a discussion why the /SFF/ general had no memes.
Seems like that changed.

[Get Out No.8123031]

>>8123010
>3, 2, 1

[Anonymous No.8123038]

>>8123028
Your post was autistic as fuck and now people are going to meme it into the ground. This is 4chan; It's only to be expected.

[Anonymous No.8123046]

>>8123038
>Your post was autistic as fuck
Whatever you feel like senpai.
But this is the SFF general what do you expect?

[Anonymous No.8123047]

>>8122980

Yeah I agree, I was happy as a bird when I was reading that trilogy, really great.

[Anonymous No.8123054]

>>8123007
>one thing, as an X, that bothers me copypasta

>>8123047
>using <adjective> as a <noun> instead of as <adjective> as a <noun>

/sffg/'s autism has successfully coalesced into its first memes. Who knows what the future holds for our shitposting?

[Anonymous No.8123059]

>>8123002
It's funny because I have the opposite problem, current science fiction isn't hard enough for me.

[Anonymous No.8123066]

>>8123054

You must be as disgruntled as a spook

[Ahi Ngakau, Lad of Perfect Tas(...) !Su23DuV66A No.8123075]

>>8123025
I've seen it, but I was wondering if there's visceral dark fantasy that I might have missed. I'd just like to see how well the aesthetic translates to text (though it seems to work better in visual mesia).

And not to sound like an ass, other than my tripfaggotry, but I probably know more about fantasy literature than 99% of the people here (which isn't even saying much). Which is why I'm almost sure a textual Berserk equivalent doesn't exist yet.

[Anonymous No.8123081]

>>8123075
>but I probably know more about fantasy literature than 99% of the people here (which isn't even saying much)

[Anonymous No.8123095]

>>8122829
You haven't seen anything until you've worked as a academic librarian, you wouldn't believe how many requests we receive asking for information on "How armies fought battlefield" and then every fucking time we've got to explain that they rarely fought head-to-head and most battles consisted of hiding in a castle until they ran out of food.

[Anonymous No.8123102]

>>8123095
Thanks, Hollywood.

[Anonymous No.8123106]

>>8123095
>and most battles consisted of hiding in a castle until they ran out of food.

That's a siege anon.

But I get your point.

[Anonymous No.8123126]

>>8123054
is there something wrong with saying
>i was x as a y

[Anonymous No.8123131]

>>8123095

Does this trigger librarians a lot?
I should check into my uni's library

[Anonymous No.8123132]

>>8123095
but sieges were the best part

[Anonymous No.8123138]

>>8123126
Saying "I was happy as a bird" would mean that anon was happy when he was a bird. Saying "I was as happy as a bird" means that anon felt the same happiness a bird would experience.

[Anonymous No.8123158]

Remember when the first sffg threads we had actually adult conversations about fantasy?

Now it's all shitposting. How are the newfags that are ruining our general?

[Anonymous No.8123165]

These threads are moving too fast now desu, I should get back to reading

[Anonymous No.8123166]

>>8123131
This triggers everybody in the history department, If given the choice like 80% of a freshers choose the most pop-history shit ever like military/warfare and medicine.

[Anonymous No.8123170]

>>8123158
>Remember when the first sffg threads we had actually adult conversations about fantasy?

No. When was that?

[Anonymous No.8123172]

>>8123138

How can you know he wasn't a bird at some time?

[Anonymous No.8123175]

>>8123158
I mean that's what happens when years pass and no good books come out.

[Anonymous No.8123176]

>>8123158
Welcome to summer.

[Anonymous No.8123179]

>>8123172
Occam's razor

[Anonymous No.8123184]

>>8123172
#BirdLivesMatter

[Anonymous No.8123213]

>>8123172
r u dumb?

[Anonymous No.8123215]

>>8123095
>You haven't seen anything until you've worked as a academic librarian
Would Anon happen to be versed in the arcane world of bibliographic data? Specifically the form, usage, and retrieval of MARC records?

[Anonymous No.8123257]

>>8123095
Well battles between two armies outside of fortifications did and do still happen. You sound pretty buttblasted anon.

>>8123166
It must be really frustrating to all you real historians that delegitimizing military history in academic circles didn't change what actual people care about.

[Anonymous No.8123263]

>>8123257
>Well battles between two armies outside of fortifications did
No, no they didn't, why do you think the battle of Hastings is a literal historic goldmine?

[Anonymous No.8123342]

>>8123263
Because it changed the course of British history and is a defining battle of a turning point in history.

There are plenty of examples of two armies meeting in open conflict.

[Anonymous No.8123874]

>>8123002
>Science Fantasy
I want this weird subgenre to die. Hard/mid sci fi is what science fiction was intended to be

[Anonymous No.8123880]

>>8123874
Soft Scifi / Science Fantasy is the best SF though.

[Anonymous No.8123887]

>>8123880
t. George Lucas

[Anonymous No.8123937]

>/sffg/ is a bunch of normies that go out on the weekend

No wonder this place is so garbage lately.

[Anonymous No.8123938]

So, is Sabriel good? I know it's on the Fantasy Selected Favorites chart, but so is The Lies of Locke Lamora, and I found that to be one of the worst books I've ever read. Plus Sabriel is YA.

Would someone who hated The Lies of Locke Lamora, The Wheel of Time, and The Prince of Nothing potentially like Sabriel? If not, do you have any recommendations?

[Anonymous No.8123950]

>>8123938
It's YA done well. That's really it, whether that's for you or not you have to decide.

Also maybe fantasy isn't for you. What DID you like?

[Anonymous No.8123958]

>>8123938
Selected sf is great and selected fantasy is a fucking mine field.
But it is old enough and doesn't have a photoshop cover and doesn't appear on the best fantasy lists so the chance of it being garbage is lower.

[Anonymous No.8123972]

>>8123950
>Also maybe fantasy isn't for you. What DID you like?
The Wizard Knight, The Lord of the Rings, and Lud-in-the-Mist.
>>8123958
Thanks
I actually made the selected sf chart, glad you like it.

[Anonymous No.8123980]

>>8123972
Read Lions of Al Rassan then.

[Anonymous No.8123987]

>>8123972
We definitely need a better fantasy chart. I personally didn't read enough to make one, or at least with diverse authors.

[Anonymous No.8123994]

Is there any great Chinese or Japanese fantasy that isn't weeb YA shit.

[Anonymous No.8124002]

>>8123994
Berserk

[Anonymous No.8124006]

>>8123938
I'm the guy who made the chart and I don't like Locke Lamora either heh. I just made it because at the time a lot of people were asking for one

Now that I read a bit more I might edit it a bit - I don't like several picks on it / think there's better.

[Anonymous No.8124010]

>>8123938
I'd say the Abhorsen series is pretty good as far as YA fantasy goes. Good enough to stand as regular fantasy at least.

[Anonymous No.8124012]

I was thinking of making a chart of non-medieval fantasy books, do you anons have any picks in mind?

And when I say non-medieval, I mean it can still be a non europe-medieval setting, but anything goes, really: victorian, western, asian, middle eastern, idian, etc.

Pic related was pretty nice, I read it in spanish so I have no idea if the translation is any good, but if you want to see a fantasy version of the american conquest you cant go wrong with this one.

[Anonymous No.8124015]

>>8124012
Sounds boring. Someone should make a non-space non-tropey SciFi chart instead (stuff like Never Let Me Go, I guess, but maybe a bit more SF).

[Anonymous No.8124022]

>>8123994
Are you talking about Chinese/Japanese books BY Japanese/Chinese authors? Or simply fantasy books that take place in China/Japan?

[Anonymous No.8124028]

>>8124022
Both work.

[Anonymous No.8124035]

>>8123980
Is it better than Under Heaven? I read that one and didn't dislike it, but didn't love it either.
>>8124006
Yeah I remember those threads and the people begging for a selected fantasy chart. Yours is better than the one I made, which had a lot of stuff like Orlando Furioso and Pedro Paramo which wouldn't have been helpful suggestions for people in these threads at all. I wish you luck in updating it, if you choose to.
>>8124010
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.8124043]

>>8124006
Keep in mind, fantasy plebs infest these threads much more than sf ones. I've also had bad experiences with the chart counting on things such as Wizard Knight and Gormenghast as a pointer to quality of other works, which certainly has not been the case.
We need a new one, with certified works of certain quality.

[Anonymous No.8124046]

>>8123007
>It erases your humanity and defeats the point of Islam in the first place.
The point of Islam is to convert everyone to it.
Terrorism is just a means to an end.

The Prophet Muhammad spent years planning terrorist attacks on caravans heading towards Mecca.

[Anonymous No.8124049]

>>8124015

SF is a bit more complicated, since non-space stuff tend to fall in other subgenres like cyberpunk or dystopian

[Anonymous No.8124053]

>>8123994
Black Wolves, Lotus War, The Grace of Kings, The Long Prince Quartet.

>>8124012
That would be cool.

[Anonymous No.8124055]

>>8124012
I think it's a great idea.

[Anonymous No.8124058]

>>8124035
Lions is his best work imo. Under Heaven I'd say wouldn't even break the top 5. Read Lions and if you like that, check out some more of his stuff. If you don't I guess you can drop the author.

[Anonymous No.8124075]

>>8124046
Actually until the Russians started supporting the Arabs, "Islamic terrorism" as we know it was relatively unknown in the world.

Just look at how the Russian government is providing free airline tickets to Syrian refugees, who then get loaded onto buses and are dropped off at the Finnish, Norwegian, Polish, etc borders.

[Anonymous No.8124088]

>>8124058
Thanks very much for the suggestion.

[Anonymous No.8124093]

What's some arab/persian fantasy that's very heavy on the fantasy side?

[Anonymous No.8124096]

>>8124043
I do like to mix some pleb stuff in-between heavy reads honestly, but some of the pleb stuff on it isn't even good as a relaxing read, so yeah. Locke Lamora just annoyed me with it's attempt at trying to force witty dialogue in every scene and the writing just didn't appeal to me in general. I'll take them off slowly as I read more.

I'll recommend The Buried Giant to you - short stand alone book and 'literary' fantasy. I really like Ishiguros prose, it manages to be very simple without feeling plain.

[Anonymous No.8124106]

>>8124093

I guess you are the anon from the last thread who mentioned The Orphan's Tales, The Golem And The Jinni, Alif The Unseen, and Throne Of The Crescent Moon

can you vouch for any of these? for the chart


>>8124053

same to you, if you had to pick one of the books you mentioned, which one it would be?

[Anonymous No.8124111]

>>8124093
Glen Cook's Instrumentalities of the Night series heavily borrows from the crusader period.

[Anonymous No.8124117]

>>8124106
>if you had to pick one of the books you mentioned, which one it would be?

Probably Black Wolves. Though the series is unfinished.

Grace of Kings is probably the least of the ones I mentioned.

[Anonymous No.8124128]

I think that recommendations should have a short description, just a cover or a name isn't too interesting.

[Anonymous No.8124134]

>>8124128
cover grabs attention > google name > whoopdedoo

[Anonymous No.8124141]

>>8124134
But most covers are shit, and no one is going to search for everything. The point of a recommendation chart is convincing you.

[Anonymous No.8124143]

>>8124134
literally every other board has a higher standard for their recc list

[Anonymous No.8124148]

>>8124106
Orphans Tales is already on the chart I think. The Golem and the Jinni isn't but absolutely should be, but since there are jewish protagonists you're going to get major opposition

Alif the unseen and Throne of the crescent moon probably don't belong there even though I did enjoy them.

[Anonymous No.8124161]

>>8124143
Then go start your own board, you simpering ingrate.

[Anonymous No.8124164]

>>8124161
lol yea i should be so grateful for a shitty list you threw together with MSPaint on books you didnt even read

[Anonymous No.8124166]

>>8124141
>>8124143
If you want it, make it. Pretty simple. It takes a lot more work to do for minimal benefit.

[Anonymous No.8124174]

>>8124141
No, a recommendation list is to recommend you books. It is up to you to look them up and see if they interest you.

And what kind of idiot judges a book based on its cover? Are you retarded, the saying "don't judge a book by its cover" exists for a reason.

[Anonymous No.8124177]

>>8124096
>I do like to mix some pleb stuff in-between heavy reads honestly, but some of the pleb stuff on it isn't even good as a relaxing read, so yeah.
There's plenty of good easy reads, I mean that's what pulp was all about.
>I'll recommend The Buried Giant to you - short stand alone book and 'literary' fantasy. I really like Ishiguros prose, it manages to be very simple without feeling plain.
Thanks. Although I won't be reading much fantasy in the upcoming months, there is plenty of backlog at the moment. I tend to delve into few authors as opposed to reading a lot of different ones.

[Anonymous No.8124178]

>>8124174
>And what kind of idiot judges a book based on its cover? Are you retarded, the saying "don't judge a book by its cover" exists for a reason.

To be fair, these days you can actually do this and not be worse off, especially with SFF

[Anonymous No.8124182]

>>8124174
What I'm trying to say is that a cover or a name says nothing to you. Having a brief description makes much more sense with the purpose of the chart, as no one is going to search for literally every item on the chart to decide. With no description you basically have to judge the books by their cover.

[Anonymous No.8124189]

>>8124178
If I judged books on their covers I'd have saved myself some torture.

[Anonymous No.8124190]

>>8124178
No you can't and if you believe this to be true you are an idiot.

>>8124182
It is up to you to google the books, goodreads exists for this very purpose. It takes two seconds to type the name of a book into goodreads and read the description.

Stop being lazy, if it bothers you so much re-do the recommendations list and add descriptions.
For most of us taking a few seconds to look a book up isn't an issue.

[Anonymous No.8124192]

>>8124182
The books are already narrowed down by being on the freaking chart though. It's like being in a book store and looking for interesting stuff, which you usually do by looking at the cover. Except, instead of having 1000+ books in front of you it's down to about 20 or so, depending on whatever chart you're looking at. Hardly a time investment to google two or three of them that look interesting and deciding which to read.

I mean that's what I do. Don't really know what issue you're having.

[Anonymous No.8124194]

I need some good audio book I can listen to while working out. Something simple enough so I can follow it while I feel like I'm dying.

[Anonymous No.8124197]

>>8124194
I think Gormenghast is the thing you need here.

[Anonymous No.8124198]

What do you think of The Dresden Files?

[Anonymous No.8124200]

>>8124198
Bad.

[Anonymous No.8124201]

>>8124198
I like it.
/lit/ does not.

[Anonymous No.8124203]

>>8124190
>No you can't and if you believe this to be true you are an idiot.
says the guy wolfing down shitty books

A description only helps better, but at this stage its probably better to just use the /lit/ wiki rather than the charts

[Anonymous No.8124205]

>>8124182
Enjoy copying and pasting books blubs from the 500 different wikipedia articles. I look forward to reading your 'chart'.

[Anonymous No.8124206]

>>8124197
Gormenghast is a great novel and a horrible recommendation for time killing audiobooks.

[Anonymous No.8124207]

>>8124198
Good but the first 3 books are terrible.

[Anonymous No.8124211]

>>8124205
>books blubs

*"book blurbs"

[Anonymous No.8124216]

>>8124205
If you look at charts from other boards its usually one or two sentences on the basic premise and then the quality of the book. Showing you've actually read it.

I think that's worth more than a bunch of books tossed together by rabble vote with no insight.

[Anonymous No.8124222]

>>8124206
>Gormenghast
Well what would be a good recommendation for time killing audio books?

[Anonymous No.8124224]

Gonna repost my first attempt to remind people how horribly wrong this sort of thing can go.

[Anonymous No.8124226]

>>8124222
Golden Age by John C. Wright, Conan and Elric of Melnibourne

[Anonymous No.8124230]

>>8124141
>The point of a recommendation chart is convincing you
Nah. It's to provide a list of possibilities/suggestions, for you to follow up on if you want to. It's not a persuasive tool.

[Anonymous No.8124250]

>>8124224
A real human being made this. It hurts.

[Anonymous No.8124258]

just finished the chaos born trilogy. not the best books i have read but i really liked it.

what does /lit/ think of drew karpyshyn?

[Anonymous No.8124267]

>>8124258
>video game author
Pass.

[Anonymous No.8124273]

>>8124216
Again, I look forward to reading your chart. What's the ETA on that, by the way?

[Anonymous No.8124275]

>>8124258
>meme effect

[Anonymous No.8124284]

>>8124273
the wiki

[Anonymous No.8124286]

>>8124258
You are missing Mass Effect: Deception from that series. It isn't written by karpyshyn though.

[Anonymous No.8124295]

Fuck you Larry Niven, I'm on the second book and not a chapter has gone by where you haven't inserted your weird inter-species alien sex fetishes.

[Anonymous No.8124297]

>>8124286
i have read it. hated it. and the reason it is not in the picture is because it is not by karpyshyn

[Anonymous No.8124315]

>>8124250
There's no way to prove that I am real :3

>>8124295
Only on the second book, eh? It gets better*.

*Here I have promulgated a falsehood

[Anonymous No.8124329]

>>8124315
Are there any templar space lesbians?

[Anonymous No.8124340]

>>8124216
But this isn't true. Most charts on most other boards are just the cover, the name, and sometimes the creator and date of creation. A chart with descriptions is the exception and not the rule.

And, to echo what everyone else has said, just use Google.

[Anonymous No.8124343]

>>8124315
I just need to know who built it, then I can jump off this bloody train wreck.

[Anonymous No.8124351]

>>8124329
Nope, Vampires.
Sex Vampires

Only one way to survive. Rish your comrades until sunrise
Niven confirmed for sex-crazed proto-furry.

[Anonymous No.8124368]

>>8124351
Yiff in space my dude

[Anonymous No.8124397]

>>8124368
IIRC John Ringo wrote a book where everybody turns themselves into dragons and shit with fantastic post-scarcity technology and people just grow their offspring in test tubes, but they're also all republicans so gay people aren't allowed to grow their babies in test tubes.

[Anonymous No.8124407]

Just finished Hyperion/Endymion. I loved it.

Where do I even go from here?

I've read Dune. Thinking about getting into Foundation.

I like sci-fi settings as a backdrop to the characters usually.

[Anonymous No.8124428]

>>8124397
Don't make me look this stuff up. It's unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.8124448]

>>8124295
Oh man, if you're tired of Rishathra now, just wait until you get to Ringworld Throne.

[Anonymous No.8124458]

>>8124397
Trump will make furries real.

[Anonymous No.8124680]

I'll ask again

Anyone got Robert Aickman's The Attempted Rescue and/or other ebooks apart from what can be found on libgen or KAT?

[Anonymous No.8124697]

>>8124680
It's not on bibliotik.

[Anonymous No.8124710]

>>8124697
Thanks for looking, seems to not be online... Tartarus Press released it.

[Anonymous No.8124726]

Do you like SF or F more?
http://www.strawpoll.me/10399576

[Anonymous No.8124815]

>>8123054
>I just got here
Filth that doesn't know the glory of GRI.

[Anonymous No.8124850]

Is there an easy way to memorize Metric? I sure would understand muh hard sci-fi a whole hell of a lot better if I could properly understand the distances and terms. Feels bad being raised on Standard.

[Anonymous No.8124920]

>>8124850
Mark meters on your walls and ceilings so you can get a feel for how long they are. Set up a room with objects moving at various speeds in m/s so you can get a feel for how fast they move. Put your hand on a frying pan and increase it by 1 C periodically to get a feel for how hot it is.

[Anonymous No.8124923]

>>8124920
Oh, and if you go for a jog, make sure to do it in kilometers instead of miles.

[Anonymous No.8124968]

>>8124850
A centimeter is a bit less than half an inch, a meter is roughly equivalent to a yard and a kilometer is a bit more than half a mile. There, you now understand metric.

[Anonymous No.8125022]

Is there an epub or PDF edition of City of Saints and Madmen kicking around?

I tried to grab it through Amazon but it said only hardcover and paperbacks are available.

[Anonymous No.8125023]

>>8124850

>author uses shitty imperial units
>no idea how far anything is

Seriously why?
Only like 2 countries in the world use imperial fake units

[Anonymous No.8125048]

>>8125022
irchighway #ebooks

[Anonymous No.8125441]

Any new upcoming sff /lit/ is looking forward to? I'm an edgelord. Love grimdark. Can't wait for this:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/exclusive-cover-reveal-excerpt-the-burning-isle-by-will-panzo/

[Anonymous No.8125457]

>>8123994
Tales of the Otori is alright

Can't really help you much since the setting is pretty unappealing to me so I tend to avoid it

[Anonymous No.8125466]

>>8125441

Blood Mirror, october 25

[Anonymous No.8125477]

>>8125466
Didn't make it past Black Prism, famalam. Do they get better?

[Anonymous No.8125483]

>>8125477

Yes, the first book is shitty introduction typical shit introduction typical but after that the plot starts rolling more though his prose doesn't get much better and there's there's still so much shit with his works but I like it it still for the plot but his prose doesn't get better but the plot is good

[Anonymous No.8125497]

>>8124850
The only way you'll really learn metric is by using it. Same as with math or reading a Vernier scale on a micrometer or whatever.

[Anonymous No.8125527]

>>8125483
Can you tell me what happens during book three so I don't have to read it?

[Anonymous No.8125619]

>>8125527

Gavin loses his colors Dazen dies Gavin becomes imprisoned in Dazen's old prison
Kip turns out to be full what ever the fuck all colors
Some other shit happened too I don't remember most important things

[Anonymous No.8125634]

>Listening to Malazan audiobook
>Continued from where I left off, listened 2 hours
>Look at playlist
>It's the 3rd file
>I was on the 2nd
>I'd been listening for 2 hours being ahead like 8 hours
>Didn't even notice until I saw the playlist

Ehhhh

[Anonymous No.8125640]

Anyone got any tips for writing fantasy?

I wrote a 200k word story about a qt loli minor count's daughter who uncovers a conspiracy by the religious order to overthrow the king, but I'm not very happy with it. When the story transitioned from her adventures to her rulership I got pretty bored of writing it.

I'm trying to plan my next story and learn from my mistakes, but I'm not even certain where I went wrong. I think I struggled writing some of the bigger world political events, and so it'd be better if I kept the next story smaller scale, but I WANT to include these things, because without giving information about the world I think fantasy can be pretty uninteresting.

Any advice?

[Anonymous No.8125676]

>>8125640
Consider the way how you can include the political stuff without losing steam, is it supposed to be in the front seat or just minor details to aid context?

[Anonymous No.8125677]

>>8125640
Just be yourself

[Anonymous No.8125692]

>>8125640
Here's the troll answer: You don't

[Anonymous No.8125700]

>>8125677
>>8125692
Thanks m80s

>>8125676
Well for the countess story, it was easy at first when I was just talking about when she saw invaders and what that meant. But when it came time for her to actually ascend the county throne and rule my story lost all momentum as well as my interest. I suddenly had to describe the burden of rulership and couldn't send her out on fun adventures anymore.

The climax is supposed to be her declaring independence from the failing kingdom for her county, but it's just not interesting to write chapters of how she administers her realm. It was a lot more fun when she was galavanting around the mysterious forest.

I've written some pretty good real world stories, and even a decent low tech sci fis (by decent I mean I'm personally happy with them), but I'm finding it difficult to keep the story moving in fantasy without having to constantly stop and explain and describe every event and its political ramifications because the reader has no frame of reference for a made-up world.

[Anonymous No.8125803]

>>8125700
How does she feel about the politics? Does she enjoy it or see it as a necessary chore? Whats driving her to this action?

If its not that fun then perhaps you could just cut it and focus more on her adventures, leaving her eventual fate as more of an epilogue thing, it all really just depends

[Anonymous No.8125830]

>>8125803
She started off as a young girl disinterested in politics and flawed by vanity, scorning her education as she believed that her role (she wasn't heir-apparent) was to wed a nobleman. However when the rulership is thrust upon her, she grows as a character and finds that though rulership is uninteresting, she has grown to appreciate and love her realm and its people and wants to do well by it. Hence leading to the secession.

I would be happy just to focus on adventures. My next story I'm considering just following a bunch of guys on a longship as they adventure in pursuit of plunder to take home. My biggest problem with that is that I think it's too far in the other direction: I feel like a world is necessary to ground the adventures and make it interesting.

I suppose I could simply make the world a setting without having to have huge empire-shaping events or whatever, but I'm a big fan of Hobb's style of having an underlying mystery followed by a late revelation such as in Liveship Traders when we learn that serpents are baby dragons and that the liveships are the cocoons they use to transition. Hence the religious conspiracy. I'm just struggling to find the right balance, especially since it's hard to keep fantasy stories below 100k words, or even 150k it seems.

[Anonymous No.8125849]

>>8125830
It sounds like what you want is another book in itself, say you can top off her adventuring with sitting on the throne, with a second book continuing where that left off, you dont have to jam it all into one book .

[Anonymous No.8125854]

>>8125849
I should also add that political machinations take a good long time to set up properly, so you really might have to consider keeping it separate if wordcount is a concern.

[Anonymous No.8125867]

Was eli monpress any good? I quit about halfway through the second book mostly because other stuff got in the way. Feel free to spoil if it makes the answer easier.

[Anonymous No.8125885]

>>8125849
I strongly considered that, but I'm always loathe to write sequels to my books because I basically write them for my own pleasure, and have never sought to have them published. It seems awfully self-involved to write sequels to books no one has read. My autism would let me write sequels if I had had my stories published, but I've never even tried. As such, I wanted my story to have a more satisfying ending in its own right. As it is currently, she ascends the throne because her brother (who was in line before her) has a mental breakdown and can't handle the stress, so it's not really a climax of political intrigue or anything.

>>8125854
Yeah like I said above, I wanted the story to stand on its own two feet with its own satisfying conclusion rather than relying on a sequel.

[Anonymous No.8126034]

>>8125441
The excerpt reads like shit anon

[Anonymous No.8126056]

Are there any good crusade-related fantasy novels? (No hifi pls)

[Anonymous No.8126082]

>>8126056
Prince of Nothing is the obvious one.

The Books of Outremer by Chaz Brenchley.

[Anonymous No.8126126]

>>8126056
B a k k e r

[Anonymous No.8126144]

>>8126082
>>8126126
>Canadian author

Am I getting myself into a guilt trip about the 4 bajillion jews and muslims that lost their lives at the hands of the evil white Christias?

[Anonymous No.8126256]

>>8122976
Can someone give me a book that has the same sort of feel as this artist?
http://www.simonstalenhag.se/

[Anonymous No.8126263]

>>8126256
Not a book but Dennou Coil comes to mind. Really good show.

[Anonymous No.8126303]

>>8122992
Ewww no.
They not legend.

[Anonymous No.8126317]

>>8123874
Intended? No no my boy, there is no prescription for a genre , you silly thing.

[Anonymous No.8126365]

Can anyone recommend some light sci-fi adventure where the author uses pretty plain language when describing scenes and characters and everything's driven more by the story? I'm almost done with Neuromancer and I can't say it left a great impression on me. The story is simplistic and the technology described doesn't sound as cool as I'm sure it did when it was written.

[Anonymous No.8126397]

>>8125441
That's not very good.

[Anonymous No.8126465]

>>8126256
Rate my spicy new reaction pic lads

[Anonymous No.8126472]

>>8126365
Leviathan Wakes

[Anonymous No.8126478]

>>8126472

That looks nice but my local library doesn't have it. Anything else?

[Anonymous No.8126489]

>>8126465

[Anonymous No.8126546]

>>8126144
Bakker is grimdark and edgy as fuck.

[Anonymous No.8126548]

>>8126546
Is that a yes?

Is he darker than George Meme Martin?

[Anonymous No.8126561]

>>8125830
Why not just end the story? Half the problem with most modern series is that they just keep going when they'd be better off over.

[Anonymous No.8126565]

>>8126546
That's why I'm going to skip him altogether, he seems like the best author for local plebs, but not actually good.

[Anonymous No.8126672]

how 'bout the first law trilogy?
is it gud?

[Anonymous No.8126675]

>>8126672
Yes.

[Anonymous No.8126680]

>>8126672
It's fucking awful.
It's a soulless derivative of Asoiaf, which isn't great in the first place. It has horrible characters, with one exception, the prose is some of the worst I've ever read (it's completely depending on the reader being a person who plays video games as it has no descriptions hence the mental images aren't created by the author, but by whichever rpg you happen to play).
It's also boring, the plot is slow, the settings is dry... It's a series without almost any positives.

[Anonymous No.8126693]

>>8126478
You can watch the TV series Expanse based on it, it differs a little, and only covers half of the first book so far. But it was a fun watch, waiting for season two in less than a year.
Don't know what else to suggest that fits your criteria. Maybe Century Rain or other some other standalone books from Alastair Reynolds, as he is one of my favourites, though I'm not certain if your library has those.
You can always get books digitally, or in audiobook form, if you're not too much against those options.

[Anonymous No.8126801]

Tell me the name of the best Fantasy and Sci-Fi book and explain why.

Winner gets a 100 dollars, in cash. I'll track your IP.

[Anonymous No.8126803]

>>8126801
Fuck off fag

[Anonymous No.8126814]

>>8122976
I haven't read a lot of fantasy, but Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell is amazing historical fantasy. The build up in the first 50-100 pages can be slow for some, but it becomes so fascinating and she weaves together history with her brand of magic and stories, really amazing stuff.

Haven't read Sci fi in a while either, but PKD and Asimov are probably my favorite authors. The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch will stretch your mind. And Asimov's Robot trilogy is pure genius, the detective style novels he writes within a world with androids is rich and intriguing.

[Anonymous No.8126815]

>>8126801
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.8126839]

>>8126801
Malazan book of the fallen.

Now go and shitpost somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.8126852]

Lads I know this is autistic as fuck, but I'm seeing some underlying patterns that might make apparent why ASOIAF/GOT (the books, at least) are so popular amongst normies:

>Multiple characters are mentioned to have hair dyed in unnatural colors
>A lot of female characters that, despite being shit, still seem to attract a large fanbase because women
>Correlations between otherkinnery bullshit and skinchangers
>8th-grade level social commentary on religion
>9th-grade level perception of the middle ages
>A very "racially diverse" setting, summer islanders and all
>Sex is pervasive in the books to the point it's fucking absurd

As stated previously, all this stuff is "trendy" in the mainstream and these elements (which I haven't enumerated completely in my post) make this book's universe more relatable to a normie that has never touched another fantasy book in his life, hence the success of the setting.

Am I just overthinking things?

[Anonymous No.8126855]

>>8126852
No, you're underthinking.

[Anonymous No.8126868]

>>8124075
That's a load of shit.

[Anonymous No.8126948]

What's more important in a /sff/ novel:

World building?
characters?
Story?
Other?

Let's hear thoughts

[Anonymous No.8126951]

>>8126948
Characters are the most important in any story. Theme is underrated, and the magic, story, and world should serve to explore the theme and the characters.

[Anonymous No.8126953]

>>8126951
Finally some sense in one of these garbage threads

[Anonymous No.8126958]

>>8126948
story (I count something like message in this) = prose > characters >>> world building

[Anonymous No.8126959]

>>8126948
All important really but without characters and story the rest will collapse.

[Anonymous No.8126963]

>>8126948
>world building
>>>/tg/

[Anonymous No.8126969]

>There are people out there that believe /sffg/ has a serious shitposting issue.

Visit /int/ from time to time.

[Anonymous No.8126973]

>>8126969

Next time be grateful that all we have is the occasional copypasta in our threads.

[Anonymous No.8126975]

>>8126546
>>8126548
No, even though Bakker is Canadian there's no white guilt, feminism and PC preaching in his books. And yes, his works are darker than GRRM's.

[Anonymous No.8126979]

>>8126973
That's got the point where it's actually hilarious.
Here it's merely annoying.

[Anonymous No.8126981]

>>8126975
>there's no white guilt, feminism and PC preaching in his books. And yes, his works are darker than GRRM's.

Sold famalam.

Do the books contain a lot of rape?

[Anonymous No.8126999]

>>8126953
It's what a few of us always say when this stupid question is asked.
And yes, the threads have seen a garbage increase in the past 2-3 months.
>>8126969
Lit is for discussing books.
Int is for non pol specific shitposing.

[Anonymous No.8127004]

>>8126256
>http://www.simonstalenhag.se/
Deathbird stories by Harlan Ellison
>>8126981
It contains rape, as it's edgy and grimdark. It doesn't contain a huge amount, though, as Bakker also needs to spend time on other weird sexual stuff. I don't like the books, but if you're going to read them then I hope you do.

[Anonymous No.8127006]

>>8126973
>The janitors actually purged these threads and /int/ is literally half empty
>/sffg/ has a serious shitposting issue

[btw I'm deleting these posts i(...) No.8127016]

>>8127006
>/sffg/ has a serious shitposting problem

[Anonymous No.8127029]

>>8126852
/r9k/ get out.

[Anonymous No.8127040]

>Want to read fantasy book without sex in it
>Only YA seems to meet this criteria

[Anonymous No.8127044]

>>8127029
pls no bully

[Anonymous No.8127095]

>>8125048
You're a real diamond in the rough for spoonfeeding my entitled ass.

Thank you!

[Anonymous No.8127107]

>>8126852
Are you clinically retarded?

ASOIAF is popular for the same reason Dan Brown and Tom Clancy are popular - most people are uneducated morons who are incapable of judging literary quality.

[Anonymous No.8127114]

>>8127095
STFU faggot

[Anonymous No.8127117]

>>8127107
Eh those aren't even close to similar.

[Anonymous No.8127257]

I have a real problem when writing, especially fantasy type stuff. I can't write from the point of view of women, I just can't do it. How the hell does Robin Hobb write so convincingly from the perspective of a man from childhood to old age?

[Anonymous No.8127270]

>>8127257

Just imagine you're writing from the perspective of a young child

[Anonymous No.8127335]

What should I read next, /lit/ ?

My friend recommended me prince of thorns. I finished it yesterday but I thought it was pretty shit to be honest.

[Anonymous No.8127337]

>>8127335
Lions

[Anonymous No.8127341]

>>8127335
Malazan books of the fallen.
If you want epic fantasy and can except that the first book isnt that great.

[Anonymous No.8127342]

>>8127335
Lions or Hobbit

[Ahi Ngakau !Su23DuV66A No.8127347]

>>8127335
You've read nothing but shit so far, so try Eye of the World to keep things consistent.

[Anonymous No.8127352]

>>8127337
>>8127341
>>8127342
Grazie, familia. Any of you read Prince of Thorns? I expected something great since my m8 was hyping it up like it was the second coming of Christ, but all I got was an edgy protagonist running around killing people.

>>8127347
You funny man, I kill you last

[Anonymous No.8127363]

>>8127352
It's bad, yes. Just look into the OP for recs.

Other bad books on that list are Hunger Games, Harry Potter, Wheel of Time and probably some more that I have never seen before.

[Anonymous No.8127373]

How come people hate Mistborn but like Stormlight?

[Anonymous No.8127375]

>>8127347
>Wolfefag is also >Any books like Dark Souls? fag
What a surprise.

[Anonymous No.8127379]

>>8127373
Because the former is bad while the latter isn't? Pretty simple.

Mistborn is YA and one of his early works. SA is his magnum opus which he refined the most, and it shows.

[Anonymous No.8127407]

>>8127363
So far all of the books in the picture I posted have come from recommendation threads + the lists I found on goodreads.

I'll give Lions a read next, but from what I've read I'm getting really hyped for Assassin's Apprentice

[Anonymous No.8127418]

>>8127407
>the lists I found on goodreads.
Stay away from those.
>but from what I've read I'm getting really hyped for Assassin's Apprentice
You... really shouldn't, or you'll be disappointed. It's very slow, and nothing even happens in the first book. It's called 'Assassin' yet he never assassinates anybody.

[Anonymous No.8127428]

>>8127373
Because one is awful and the other just bad so it can pass with the plebs

[Anonymous No.8127434]

>>8124407
How is Endymion?
Heard its bad compared to Hyperion.

[Anonymous No.8127437]

>>8123938
>The Lies of Locke Lamora, and I found that to be one of the worst books I've ever read.


B-but.. I love the Lies of Locke Lamora.

Anyone's got a better pick?

[Anonymous No.8127450]

>>8127437
>Anyone's got a better pick?
Do you realize how dumb this question sounds? If not, reread it a few times and think.

You can find book recommendations in the OP.

[Anonymous No.8127452]

>>8127418
>It's called 'Assassin' yet he never assassinates anybody.
>mfw

So should I read it with limited expectations or avoid it altogether?

[Ahi Ngakau !Su23DuV66A No.8127456]

>>8127375
>Pleb makes that sound like a bad thing

Get on my level.

[Anonymous No.8127457]

>>8127437
Better pick in what way?
Quality wise it's pretty bad so there's dozens of better picks in fantasy.

[Anonymous No.8127479]

>>8127452
Avoid first, unless you really want to read fantasy and have read everything usually seen as good.

[Anonymous No.8127480]

>>8127452
That guy is an idiot. Fitz assassinates several people, but his primary function is diplomacy, and assassination is a last resort. With that said, Fitz is a shitty Assassin, it's simply not in his character. Fitz is an out and out, frothing-at-the-mouth Berserker by nature and fights mostly with an Axe and is *damn* good at that. Most of his actual assassinations are glossed over because they're extremely mundane. He goes somewhere, poisons someone, and comes back without anyone knowing. No frills.

[Anonymous No.8127482]

>>8127452
I read the first book myself and dropped it. I'd say avoid it and just read other, good books instead.

[Anonymous No.8127506]

>>8127257
>How the hell does Robin Hobb write so convincingly from the perspective of a man from childhood to old age?
She doesn't.

[Anonymous No.8127511]

>>8127457

You know, the fantasy trickster protagonist

[Anonymous No.8127544]

>>8127407

I tried it as audiobook, but the torrent copy was so bad I gave up almost imediately

[Anonymous No.8127593]

>>8123994
Parasite Eve was good.

[Anonymous No.8127612]

>>8127544
>>8127482
>>8127480
>>8127479
Welp, looks like I'll skip AA and just find something else to read after Lion.

Thanks for the input amigos

[Anonymous No.8127615]

>>8126263
>>8127004
thanks senpai

[Anonymous No.8128073]

Chat anon make a new one out of this, we need to replace the current minefield for recommended fantasy
David Lindsay: "A Voyage to Arcturus"
E. R. Eddison: "The Worm Ouroboros"
Lord Dunsany: "The King of Elfland's Daughter"
Hope Mirrlees: "Lud-In-The-Mist"
L. Sprague de Camp: "The Compleat Enchanter"
Robert E. Howard: "Conan the Barbarian"
Poul Anderson: "The Broken Sword"
T. H. White: "The Once and Future King"
Mervyn Peake: "Gormenghast"
Fritz Leiber: "The Swords of Lankhmar"
Roger Zelazny: "The Chronicles of Amber"
John Crowley: "Little, Big"
Gene Wolfe: "Book of the New Sun"
Tim Powers: "The Anubis Gates"
Jack Vance: "Lyonesse"
Robert Holdstock: "Mythago Wood"
Barry Hughart: "Bridge of Birds"
Guy Gavriel Kay: "The Lions of Al-Rassan"
Michael Swanwick: "The Iron Dragon's Daughter"
Susanna Clarke: "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell"

Few works can be addded of couse, but no, not your Sanderson, Malazan or any of that shit.

[Anonymous No.8128084]

>>8128073
>Michael Swanwick: "The Iron Dragon's Daughter"

[Anonymous No.8128105]

>>8128084
Fuck off shitposter.

Achieve something like pic related or get lost, you're not funny nor refreshing.

[Anonymous No.8128160]

>>8127335
>Hunger Games
>Harry Potter
What the fuck? Are we being raided by tumblr?

[Anonymous dl No.8128161]

>>8128073
>>8128084

Looks like a good list. Some more input from others, and I can offer to whip up something if the other anon doesn't show up.

I haven't read Iron Dragon's Daughter, but I did read Swanwick's sf, and he's worth putting on a sf chart, so it may have a place on the list if other readers vouch for it.

Short descriptions would be great. I'm all for that. But then the other charts would need to be revised to keep things consistent.

[Anonymous No.8128171]

>>8128073
Are you trying to trigger dinosaur anon?

[Anonymous No.8128175]

>>8128073
>but no, not your Sanderson, Malazan or any of that shit.
Have you even read them? I honestly don't get people who are so obsessed with thinking that it has to be one or the other. You can read both, Wolfe and Sanderson, and enjoy both. What's the big deal

[Anonymous No.8128197]

Why is the influx of good fantasy novels so defendant on Hollywood?

[Anonymous No.8128201]

Any anons familiar with this book? I ran across it researching Redcaps, who are these nasty little goblins that haunt the border between England and Scotland (their caps are red because they dip them in human blood). There's nothing much about it on Google, aside from being written in 1904. Worth a punt?

[Anonymous No.8128210]

>>8128175
You can like them, but they don't belong on the selected fantasy chart.

[Anonymous No.8128211]

>>8128171
I'm triggered of their lack of Moorcock.

[Anonymous No.8128214]

>>8128175
What's this shit about Wolfe and Sanderson?

[Anonymous No.8128230]

>>8128073
The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle, the man's prose game is excellent (dipping into poetry at times).

[Anonymous No.8128235]

>>8128214
They're both representatives of different authoring styles, Wolfe is quality and Sanderson is quantity... or something.

[Anonymous No.8128240]

>>8128161
I think Elric of Melbourne by Moorcock is not a bad addition.
Also, it doesn't have Tolkien, I'd like either Silmarillion or Chrildren of Hurin.

[Anonymous No.8128265]

Is lions of al rassan actually magical, or is it just AU historical fiction?

[Anonymous No.8128271]

>>8128073
I would remove "A Voyage to Arcturus," it's more SF than fantasy (and in my opinion isn't very good).

[Anonymous No.8128274]

>>8128161
>>8128240
>No The Face in the Frost
Explain yourselves.

[Anonymous No.8128280]

>>8128161
Man Who was Thursday by G.K. Chesterton
I'd replace New Sun with The Wizard Knight
Master and Margarita maybe?
Croatian Tales of Long Ago by Ivana Brlic Mazuranic

[Anonymous No.8128291]

>>8128271
I didn't make the list. I also haven't read it. We can finalize it later on. Removal of it is cool, it probably won't be missed.

[Anonymous dl No.8128301]

>>8128240
Tolkien is sometimes too large to acknowledge, but I agree, he should be included regardless.

Elric is arguably a clone of Conan, but since he extends the subgenre's tropes to a much vaster scale, he stands on his own as a character. I would include.

I don't like Jordan, Sanderson, Rowling, Erikson, GRRM, etc, but they're widely read, so to disinclude them in an introductory chart smells like autism. Just keep them (probably segregated, lol) until newbie readers are weaned off of them.

[Anonymous No.8128307]

>>8128280
The Man who was Thursday is one of my favorite books, but it doesn't belong on that chart. Same with M&M, it's not what people are looking for when they're looking for a fantasy book (and if we expand the chart to include any book with fantastic elements, the resulting chart will be awash with Dante and Homer and other great books that would be useless to recommend to the fantasy anons of this thread).

I agree about The Wizard Knight.

[Anonymous No.8128319]

>>8128073
B A K K E R

[Anonymous No.8128320]

I fucking hate that all the books that sound interesting to me are YA and romance to boot. It's so humiliating to have such juvenile taste and I just end up buying books I don't enjoy because other people say they're good

[Anonymous No.8128324]

>>8128301
>an introductory chart
This isn't for an introductory chart, it's for a new selected favorites chart. Thus the curating out of subpar stuff.

[Anonymous No.8128330]

>>8128319
"No"

[Anonymous No.8128337]

>>8128301
The problem with them is it makes the chart seem very problematic in quality of picks. Like the current one, it has a fantastic selection of works for some, but man it is like tryting not to step on shit.
I'll never forgive it for making me pick up First Law.
Also, honestly who needs to be told about them? Their novels are just about the most mainstream fantasy out there is right now and shifts it from "selected" to "hope you don't start the wrong one"
>>8128307
As long as we get Croatian Tales on it. We get requests for slav fantasy often, and this is the best pick honestly. It's short, unusual, well written and heck you can even read it to your kids/nephews/siblings.

[Anonymous No.8128338]

>>8128301
Elric is to Conan what edgy post-modernists are to Tolkien,

[Anonymous No.8128342]

>>8128319
>>8128324
No Bakker

[Anonymous No.8128352]

>>8128338
Yes, and it's incredibly fun. It's aware it's corny and that makes it very amusing.
The first one is also quite well written as a simple adventure story. I can live with him being excluded, but he's a solid author.

[Anonymous No.8128381]

>>8128073

This has some decent stuff on it desu

+1 for eddison, lieber, howard, anderson, dunsany, zelazny, and vance

I'd pick a better dunsany story, and drop Wolfe

[Anonymous No.8128384]

>>8128291
Voyage to Arcturus should be at the top of the list. We are trying to get people to read good books, yes?

[Anonymous No.8128387]

>>8128240

Hobbit

[Anonymous No.8128397]

>>8128384
We are trying to get people to read good fantasy. Voyage to Arcturus is neither "good" nor "fantasy."

[Anonymous No.8128399]

>>8128384
Well I'm not discussing the qualtiy, it's just relatively unknown to me and most other anons so the fight to keep him wouldn't be big. I mean the other anon is making the list, I can only do mspaint.
>>8128381
Wolfe is staying for good, it isn't even up for discussion.

[Anonymous No.8128400]

Someone explain to me the appeal of Earthsea

It just seems bad to me

[Anonymous No.8128402]

>>8128271

A Voyage to Arcturus is a bizzare book, but has very very good moments.

It has a weak ending and beginning, but it's colors and philosophies were pretty cool.

I'd say keep it.

[Anonymous No.8128404]

>>8128342
>>8128330
There is literally nothing wrong with Bakker

[Anonymous No.8128408]

>>8128073

Replace Lyonessee(which is a trilogy not a book) with The Eyes of the Overworld or The Dying Earth

[Anonymous No.8128410]

>>8128387
It's good, but I think CoH is criminally unread around here. It's greek tragedy+dragons and point on prose.

[Anonymous No.8128418]

>>8128400
Muh red skin

[Anonymous No.8128419]

>>8128408
Who said it has to be a single book? Did you not notice the other ones in the list who are not stand alones somehow?

And Lyonesse > Dying Earth desu

[Anonymous No.8128420]

>>8128410

It's the second best of Tolkien's Middle Earth stuff, after the hobbit.

It's also fucking depressing

[Anonymous No.8128431]

>>8128420
That's why it's so good. It's pure tragedy, very emotional.

[Anonymous No.8128438]

>>8128419

Only a few chapters are. Madouc is pretty entertaining for its entirity, but otherwise only the parts with Shimrod are any good. The voyage with Krull in the green pearl is fun and the Giants house in Suldruns garden are fun stories.

The rest of Lyonessee is garbage for a writer as good as vance.

[Anonymous No.8128445]

>>8125634

>audiobook

why?

[Anonymous No.8128449]

>>8128408
>not Servants of the Wank

[Anonymous No.8128632]

>>8125634

lol, with malazan i'm not surprised that could happen

[Anonymous No.8128637]

>>8128404
The ""selected"" fantasy chart anon is just memeing about his superior tastes.
Leave him be, if he doesn't want to include non meme books on his chart then so be it.

[Anonymous No.8128655]

>>8126565
Bakker is intellectual /lit/ tier . If you are not even willing to try the first book, begone, you don't belong here.
>>8126975
is Canada infested? Don't know much about that country.
>>8126981
There's plenty of rape, done in style. It has a reason to be there though.
>>8127004
what you don't like ?

[Anonymous No.8128674]

>>8126975
Do farmers usually grow up to be leftists in Canada or something?

[Anonymous No.8128684]

>>8128674
Yes.

[Anonymous No.8128689]

>>8128684
The fuck

[Anonymous No.8128695]

>>8128689
Canada is a leftist shithole

[Anonymous No.8128705]

>>8128655
>what you don't like ?
I think Bakker undercuts the main action in The Prince of Nothing (the holy war) by making none of the characters actually care about the holy war.
I think Bakker keeps magic and how it works vague because he has no idea how it works, with idiots sometimes mistaking this for a "philosophical" take on the subject.
I think the whole Prince of Nothing trilogy serves as a prologue to Bakker's other series, and therefore doesn't resolve in an interesting way (if you can even say it resolves at all).
All of these flaws pale in comparison to the biggest problem, which is that Kellhus is just a terrible character. He's not written like an actual person, and while you can brush this away by saying that Bakker makes him something fundamentally different than a normal person, it nevertheless makes him unrelatable. People's reactions to him are wildly unrealistic and read as if Bakker is just having people fall under his sway for the sake of the plot. His super powers prevent there from ever being any tension, as he's never in danger. If he were a side character it would be bad, but since he becomes the main character it drags the entire book down with it.

[Anonymous No.8128729]

>>8128695
>this is what might-makes-rightards actually believe

[Anonymous No.8128749]

>>8128729
Nah, it's culturally and morality vapid and will fall apart when the first real crisis hits it, just like most western countries will, unless a major change happens.

[Anonymous No.8128756]

>>8128749
you mean like the economic crash eight years ago where they got out of it better than the US did?

[Anonymous No.8128776]

>>8128756
No, short economic problems aren't what I'm referring to

[Anonymous No.8128788]

>>8128776
and your solution for them being "culturally and morally vapid" is what exactly?

[Anonymous No.8128807]

>>8128788
return to traditional values of course
it won't happen before the west burns to the ground of course

[Anonymous No.8128823]

>>8128807
traditional values meaning?

[Anonymous No.8128842]

>>8128823
christianity

[Anonymous No.8128864]

>>8128842
Thats working out so well for Latin America

[Anonymous No.8128877]

>>8128864
half of them are communits with america staging coup d'etats whenever they get a good leader

[Anonymous No.8128879]

>>8128689
Oh shit, the Salem poster is back.
Didn't see you since early last year/ year before the last.

Didn't you used to post gifs though?

[Anonymous No.8128883]

>>8128705
Kellhus wagers his fate on the holy war, using it as a means to establish himself. Just because none of them believe in the crusade zealously, doesn't mean they don't care.

>magic isn't explained enough
>magic is explained too much

These are two sides of the same coin, which makes it an issue of personal taste. In my opinion, stuff like the conversation about first and second inutterals was enough

Kellhus is supposed to be unrelatable because he is not human. And if you are still trying to like Kellhus by the end you are reading it incorrectly.

And there was a bunch of shit that was resolved at the third book, but enough left open for the next series. The holy war is over, and all of the characters have changed as a result of it. Seem like a cut and dry ending

[Anonymous No.8128891]

Why don't fantasy and scifi writers try to create a sense of beauty and wonder anymore? Everything is filthy and corrupt and generally terrible

[Anonymous No.8128900]

The Lord of the Rings One volume vs 3 parts

what should I buy, please advise me, thanks.

[Anonymous No.8128912]

>>8128891
Which ones are you talking about

[Anonymous No.8128939]

>>8128900
Are you seriously asking this?

[Anonymous No.8128954]

tfw got a new map to post

[Anonymous No.8128955]

>>8128883
It's clear you're a fan, so I'm not going to argue with you after this post since I'm clearly not going to change your mind, but I'll respond. You are correct that the magic system stuff is personal taste, I just dislike it when it's held up as a great example of a magic system because I've never seen that statement justified.

The fact that the holy war is useful to characters is true, but misses the point: when I have to read a fifty page battle there should be some stakes to it, but there isn't because no one cares. A loss in the holy war could be just as useful as a win to Kellhus, so for fifty pages I'm reading about something where the outcome doesn't matter. This is poor writing and poor story telling.

I already addressed the idea that Kellhus not being human somehow excuses him being a terribly written character. I never had a problem with Kellhus not being likable, Humbert Humbert is unlikable while still being a good character. The problem with Kellhus isn't his unlikability, it's that by making him the main character it makes the main driver of the action unrelatable and drains the narrative of tension. Might as well have been an indestructible robot that knows magic at that point.

Individual plot threads were resolved, but not the plot as a whole, because the books make clear that the holy war is ultimately inconsequential and it's the big good vs evil battle that really matters. It's like writing a book where you frequently reference WWII and end it with the 1939 defeat of Poland- could that be seen as a resolution? Sure. It isn't a satisfying one though.

[Anonymous No.8128957]

>>8128939
yes, I don't post here regularly so I don't know if LotR is some kind of internal meme.

But please one small advice would be really appreciated.

[Anonymous No.8128962]

>>8128957
>I don't post here regularly
>everything is a meme
That's fairly clear. You should go back to not posting on the site regularly, or even browsing. :-)

[Anonymous No.8128980]

>>8128705
>I think the whole Prince of Nothing trilogy serves as a prologue to Bakker's other series

This is pretty much true, and in AE triogy Khellus takes the backseat as more of a force of nature than anything else.

[Anonymous No.8128994]

>>8128900
Whichever has the giant fold-out maps.

[Anonymous No.8129001]

>>8128955
It's more like a World War One story that constantly drops hits that there's going to be a Second World War. If you want to find out about World War Two, then you have to read the next series, but the story of World War One is told and resolved.

[Anonymous No.8129006]

>>8128955
hi b brown
And yes, most certainly, the fact that you wrote something inhuman is in no way an excuse, it's just shit writing.
Relatability also isn't a problem in itself, for example Severian and Fafhrd are fucking assholes, but compelling characters nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.8129014]

I dont really see how Khellus is inhuman

He's just a master manipulator. Manipulation is a quality we all have, he's just a complete embodiment of it.

[Anonymous No.8129030]

>>8129014
Hence, inhuman. He is an embodiment of one element of human existance.
Also, the whole indestructible final form of Naruto thing.

[Anonymous No.8129033]

>>8129014
He's not a "Master Manipulator", he has a magic wand of mind control; Even "Tool of the Trade"'s ultrasonic hypnosis machine is more believable.

[Anonymous No.8129043]

>>8129014
His empathy has been bred out of him forming him and all other Dunyain into purely logic driven hyperintellectuals.

You might say he's a further evolutionary step. This is expanded on in the next series when it shows the trouble he has conceiving normal children

[Anonymous No.8129051]

Even as a fan, I felt Bakker was 80% boring parts that you slog through for the 20% of interesting parts. The 20% is so good that it's worth it, though. The ratio improves as the series progresses. On a reread the boring parts have have some redeeming value as well, as you can comb them for clues about the good stuff.

[Anonymous No.8129069]

>>8129030
>>8129033
Magic isn't really something particular to him, although he happens to be very good at it.

>>8129043
Thats really just it, a hyperdeveloped rationality. There are quite a few people like that IRL, so to say he's inhuman is a bit of a stretch I think.

[Anonymous No.8129072]

>>8129043
I didn't read it, but Jesus that sounds boring and stupid as fuck.

[Anonymous No.8129075]

>>8129030
He's not indestructible. He literally almost dies at the end of book two, and would have, if he didn't get lucky. He overreached too quickly, and paid a price for it, showing he's fallible.

[Anonymous No.8129091]

>>8129069
Who has hyperdeveloped rationality?
You mean autism?

[noko No.8129093]

>>8129051
I mean, here are some words to put you to sleep: Xinemus, Caraskand, Athjeari, Kidruhil, Skauras
Here are some words to make your mouth water: Consult, Moenghus, Seswatha, Golgotterath, Dunyain, No-God

[Anonymous No.8129103]

>>8129072
>I didn't read it
why did you even post lol

[Anonymous No.8129104]

>>8129051
Feels like àlmost every sff book is like this.

Which books has more interesting parts than boring ones?

[Anonymous No.8129122]

>>8129103
Because the description sounds like it's awful and I wanted to express how dumb that sounds.
>>8129104
I've never had that problem at all.
The list and the authors added to it later on in the thread.

[Anonymous No.8129137]

>>8129122
You do realize that it's a condensed version of the events in the books, and loses most of the magic in this format, like most books.

[Anonymous No.8129463]

>>8125634
Get a better audiobook app

[Anonymous No.8129495]

>>8126256
Is that a nuke in the back?

[Anonymous No.8129681]

>SFF never discusses SF
>it's always always fantasy

I just finished Starship Troopers and now I'm reading The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. Heinlein's politics are whacky but he's a very good writer. Are there any other authors this political but also actually talented?

[Anonymous No.8129705]

>>8129681
Philip K. Dick maybe? Heinlein is probably the best SF author at it though.

[Anonymous No.8129728]

>>8122976
chronicle of the fallers 2nd book when

[Anonymous No.8129820]

>>8129681
Isn't the best part about Heinlein that he can convincingly write from the viewpoint of any political archetype.

[Anonymous No.8129835]

>>8128073

[Anonymous No.8129846]

>>8129835
I don't even know which writers you hate, but your meme sucks.

Some1 new bread plox

[Anonymous No.8129877]

>>8129846
LET THERE BE THREAD:

>>8129875
>>8129875
>>8129875

[Anonymous No.8129919]

>>8129846
I hate the fucking old grandpas who want us to stagnate and just read old books.

[Anonymous No.8129970]

>>8129919
So do I but you don't hear me bitching about it

It's basically true that old fantasy>newer, since newer fantasy is overwhelmingly derivative, with the exception of a few like Bakker.

[Anonymous No.8129973]

>>8129072
>that sounds boring and stupid as fuck
Yup

[Anonymous No.8129992]

>>8129970
Let me hear your thoughts on pic related?

[Anonymous No.8130260]

>>8129992
It's shit.

[Anonymous No.8131133]

>>8130260
You're shit m8