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/lit/ - Literature

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804554 No.804554 [Reply] [Original]

SO if I were to post what I've just written, (1,200 words or so) in the past 2 hours, could I get an honest and critical response to it's quality and/or lack thereof?

>> No.804564

>past 2 hours

Don't waste our time with a first draft.

>> No.804568

Waste your time? It might keep me from wasting time on a 2nd draft!

>> No.804571

You'll get shit flung all over you. What is it you've written?

If it doesn't read like a 12 year old's first fan fictionm there might be a couple people willing to offer a real critique. I'm guessing your shit sucks, though, so you'll probably be trolled.

>> No.804588

If you throw it up here, there's a good chance you will get a fairly in-depth response (buried amidst the trolls and threadshitters)

That response will likely be overwhelmingly negative and brutal, but it will also be fairly honest and fairly helpful

>> No.804589

stop being a bitch and post it

>> No.804593

Go ahead, I'm having a bad day and you might be just the person to take that out on.

>> No.804596

>>804571

Well I dunno. I'll post a google docs link. Read if you want, ignore if you want.

I like to think I've got rid of most of my angst.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AXavsUyYuNZ5ZGdxNXY4aHZfODdmYzI5OHJjeA&hl=en

Please, be as critical and mean as you feel you need to be.

>> No.804598

you'll get a shitload of angry responses from one smacktard who hates your work for no apparent reason, two vague "I like it" responses, and maybe one actual critique

are you a bad enough dude to handle it?

>> No.804601

>>804596
Copy paste bro, I don't want to do all that shit

>> No.804603

>>804596
Your shit is locked, yo!

>> No.804609

>>804596
You need to give me access to this document or something

The point is that I can't access it.

>> No.804610

It said I couldn't access it.

>> No.804611

You're probably going to regret it, that means you should do it. Also, as crazy as it sounds, I much prefer reading a screencapped picture of the writing than reading it copypasted into posts.

>> No.804641

SORRY ABOUT THAT GUYS.

Here's a DevArt link

http://crieswhicharewings.deviantart.com/art/Johnny-168170297

>> No.804643
File: 47 KB, 400x472, deviantart.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
804643

I wish all the writers here would take their manuscripts and fuck off to deviantart.

>> No.804650

>"I can't believe you Johnny. You can't just fucking stop and think about what you're doing and realize that going there is not smart."

>He just looked at her with that half sympathizing, half ambivalent look.

>"You hear me you fucking asshole. Don't go there."

>Still.

I...I can't read any more.

>> No.804662

It starts with dialog. Things are looking up! That's always a sign of a skilled author.

>Still.

>"Don't go. Don't go. Don't go." She said it still the first time, the second she started spinning around like a child reciting a wonderful nursery rhyme worthy of dancing to. The second was said at the end of the spin. It wasn't in jest, she was just hysterical. He had trouble, always, showing how much he really cared. It's especially hard when you don't.

This paragraph is painfully awkward. Maybe you should read the things you write once or twice to yourself before posting them here.

We're not here to read your word-vomit. A writer's most important skill is the ability to edit himself and rewrite his own words. Do that.

>> No.804660

>>804650

That's fine man, It's just dialogue.

>> No.804666

Reading your writing makes me feel better about my own talents as a writer.

I mean that in the nicest possible way.

>> No.804669

>>804662

I'll do that. I said I wrote it in 2 hours. Drunk, too.

>> No.804673

Ok, man. Let's dig into this:

First off, your introduction really stinks. The part about half-sympathetic, half-ambivalent, it's just a terrible way to describe a look, firstly because ambivalent is itself a description that implies half-and-half.
The "Still." Makes no sense at all. It just makes no sense, it's completely distracting for the reader. It could mean so many things.
The part about slapping him upside the head, etc. is just incredibly immature in its phrasing, and no don't tell me that's the intent, it's just plain awful to read. "She seriously did it." What? At what point was the reader going to think "She jokingly did it." or "Nah, the author's just messing with my head, she didn't _seriously_ do it." Also the part about the marriage and all of that stuff, again, very immature, poorly phrased, and quite simply lacks any force or vigor as a description of their relationship.

>> No.804674

>>804666

I don't know about you but I've had more than a few arguments with my girlfriend that sounded a lot like the beginning of this.

>> No.804679

>>804650

>half ambivalent

This would be a kind of clever pun if I weren't sure it was meant in all seriousness

>> No.804681

>>804673

Thanks man, I appreciate this. Keep going if you will.

>> No.804686

>>804673
Also, the phrase is "as are WONT to do." It's absolutely out-of-place diction in the rest of your narrative.
Your exposition of the characters isn't terrible but this thing could've been edited and be about 400 words shorter. You have a ton of editing to do here and this is why I don't understand why you guys post stuff that's a completely fresh rough draft. ALL WRITING REQUIRES EDITING. It's not even worth critiquing if it hasn't, at least somewhat, been edited yet. It's like giving people a picture with no color, shading, and half-finished even in the content of the picture, then saying, "Whaddaya think!?" all expectant and happy. It's pointless.

>> No.804687

>>804662
I agree with this.

What stands out to me about your writing, first and foremost, is that your prose style is almost painfully dull; painful because there is promise of a sort here, interesting subject material, interesting characters. And your prose feels like it's reaching, is almost at the level of saying something and being interesting and beautiful, but you just don't know how to get there. And I think that's a combination of lack of practice, and lack of self-editing. I'm going to quote Clive James here:

"Eugene Onegin is a miracle of lightness in which every word has been weighed. When Pope called genius an infinite capacity for taking pains, that is what he meant. The greatly gifted have almost everything by nature, but by bending themselves to the effort of acquirement, they turn a great gift into great work."

I don't really have anything more specific for you; it's not a bad piece, certainly. It's just boring. You have no voice, your prose does not have any really substantial quality. So... work on that.

>> No.804693
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804693

Is there any more of this dog?

>> No.804695

>>804687
Oh yeah, actually, I did have a specific problem

What I said about your prose style being boring only applies to the latter portion of the story; at the beginning, it's actively awkward and harmful, difficult to understand in addition to being uninteresting.

>She said it still the first time, the second she started spinning around like a child reciting a wonderful nursery rhyme worthy of dancing to. The second was said at the end of the spin. It wasn't in jest, she was just hysterical.

This is an example of you writing something and not thinking about it, I suspect, because I cannot imagine any realistic character ever fucking doing this. Who would seriously spin around while they start talking? I cannot possibly imagine this happening. What the eff. Think about what you're writing.

>> No.804702

>>804687
>>804686

You guys are awesome. I wasn't expecting any kind of good critique from you guys, I wasn't HOPEFUL or any of that shit. I was just writing, and wanted to know what you guys thought.

This is the kind of response I wish I could always get, half drunk mental diarrhea or not.

Anyway, thanks.

>> No.804711

>>804695

I pictured a kid throwing a temper tantrum in my head and tried to attribute it to the character.

>> No.804729

>>804702
I understand what you're saying. And keep in mind I was the one who you said you appreciated the critique.
Our point is, you just need to put more work into it before you show it to anyone. I'm guessing you're just drunk and being belligerent, but still, dude, you can't expect relevant, positive/negative constructive critique when what you're giving us to critique is half-formed and artless. We're either experienced readers, or some of us are writers actively engaged in the work itself. We can't take your raw potatoes, chop them up and boil them, and then make recommendations on a recipe for delicious apple pie. Give us some apple pie and we can tell you all about why you need more or less cinnamon, why your crust isn't coming out flakey, etc

>> No.804749

>>804711
but your description makes it seem like she's doing a Zangief lariat or something

>> No.804766

>>804729

You're right, i'm being belligerent. I've got stuff far more into process than this, I just got some liquid courage and posted the shittiest shit i've got.

Thanks anyway for your thoughts. Night guys.

>> No.804768

"I'll do that. I said I wrote it in 2 hours. Drunk, too."

Re-write it in 3, and do it sober this time. Don't write presumptuously; your characters are dynamic but you don't articulate their dynamicism well.

>> No.804776

Goddamn, have you people ever heard of the compliment sandwich? Give the dude a break!

Just kidding. It sucks bro.

>> No.804789

ha ha

hahaha
HAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
...[tenth paragraph]
BWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

This is great!

>> No.804811

>>804768

Like this dude says, your characters aren't bad. God knows I know this argument too well. I like the description of her killing him and acting like nothing happened. Other than that though, boring, boring, boring.

>> No.804819

>>804776
Honestly this has been surprisingly non-brutal, perhaps because it shows a lot of promise. The guy is a writer.

>> No.804829

>>804819
No he's not. He's a moron who strung sentences together semi-coherently, which is impressive for /lit/ but not for real writers. He published a first draft of something he wrote in hours. It wasn't good. There's no reason for anyone to ever post something unedited on here. If he were really a writer he would understand that first-drafts are a waste of his time if he's posting them and asking for critiques.

He's an asshole, nothing more.

>> No.804831

It's not quite so bad as others here have made out. "Half ambivalent look" is pleonastic, and the adjective is a compound, thus "half-ambivalent". Sorry. I won't read prose that is not grammatic.

>> No.804836

>>804819

I never said it was horrible. I just said it was a shitty first draft. If i'm going to be honest, i've wrote a hell of a lot worse than this while drunk (and high too).

>> No.804838

>>804831
haven't read much literature then have you?

>> No.804844

>>804829
Oh, he's not a practicing writer and he's very far from being a good one; I've posted my criticisms in this thread. But by the standards of /lit/ he's quite good.

>> No.804896
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804896

>>804838

Haven't read much of what /lit/ posts have you?

OP, keep on keeping on, as the euphemism goes. You've got something, but you could lose it pretty easy without practice. Don't get too happy though, it was kinda shitty anyway.

>> No.804913

>>804896
OP, never post your unedited trash again. If you're serious about writing you have to learn to edit and develop a love for rewriting. Hemingway said the most important skill of any writer is "an unshakable bullshit detector." Judging from your writing, you have none: there's bullshit everywhere. Editing will fix that. You have to take out the obvious crap before you ask for critiques, otherwise the only feedback you'll get will be topical, surface-level wastes of your time. We're all so caught up in details of your poor spelling and grammar that we can't really step back and look at the story as a whole to tell you where the larger errors lay.

>> No.805125

Well, not OP, and this has been edited a little bit, a few times, so go ahead and rag on it. Enjoy ripping it to pieces.
http://a-k-a-z.deviantart.com/art/Lonely-Magic-166649900

>> No.805694

>>805125
Bumping cause this was hours ago.

>> No.805721

>>805125
>Lonely-Magic
No thanks.

>> No.805725
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805725

>> No.805726

>>805721
It's an allusion to the nature of creating art, how requires or comes out of solitude. But you're right, the title I wrote down arbitrarily one night definitely needs to be changed. That really is horrible.

>> No.805727

>>805726
I was going to try and do a line-by-line critique but it's asking me to sign up for Deviant Art to view your story. No thanks.

>> No.805736
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805736

The primary problem with your story is that it is terrible. Kill yourself.

>> No.805745

>>805736
Yes, of course, I should kill myself, instead of recognizing that I'm practicing at something and don't have a good grasp of it yet. Thanks for that brilliant analysis of good and bad points, as well as the pertinent and sage life advice you have to offer.

>> No.805775

Rush edit:
"I can't believe you Johnny. You can't just fucking stop and think about what you're doing and realize that going there is not

smart."

"You hear me you fucking asshole. Don't go there."

"Don't go." Still. "Don't go." She started spinning around like a child reciting a wonderful nursery rhyme. "Don't go." The third

was said at the end of the spin.

He had trouble, always, showing how much he really cared. He didn't.

"I won't go Senise. I don't know what I was thinking. I don't even have the money really."

"You're damn right you don't. Your mom still buys your goddamn underwear and socks. And you're trying to run away to

another country? Without talking to me? "

She slapped his temples. It took him a moment to register the pain and a moment for him to get pissed. They fought some

more- normally, honestly. They wouldn't admit that though.

"I've got to get...," he stopped mid sentence, started walking away.

"What are you saying, Johnny? Huh? You have something to say, say it. You want to break up? Is that it?"

He didn't answer immediately, which brought on the battering of the same question over and over. He was convinced, probably years before, that Senise was slightly unstable. But goddamn, that's what kept them close . She was destructive and hurtful and then lovable and obessive . He had never found someone so passionate about small things.

The balance of paintings, television commercials, music. She always laughed at his jokes, and swore he was the funniest person alive.

>> No.805790

I took a look through it writing down all the bits that fell off, so here goes. Sorry that it's so negative, but I'm not a writer so I can only point out what feels wrong, as opposed to how it should be.

The lines "She seriously did it" and "to get pissed at her" are bad, the paragraph they're in as a whole feels clunky.

"When it went past his lips" doesn't fit with the tense of the rest of that sentence.

"She was not instrospective" needs to be said in a more subtle manner, maybe by pointing out her lack of thought rather than summarizing it in a one word.

You repeated "as want to do" twice in a paragraph.

The line on feminist prophets is too dramatic and unreal.

The hormone pill line is bad.

The "recollecting" has too many unecessary words, and what exactly is she thinking about?

What or who is "Ack!" coming from.

Use a more modern synonym for galvanting, it doesn't fit with your writing style.

Don't say that he's "Incredibly talented" and presume we'll believe it, describe what makes him that.

Get rid of "puppy dog eyes" that would not be what he looks like when dying

Your description of the knife is poor and/or uneeded.

"have sex whenever he wants" is a bad line. In fact, her whole thought process here seems unrealistic. I know you're trying to describe her as crazy, but it still doesn't sound right.

The elvis impersonator line is odd.

Who trips on a guitar?

Rather than mentioning the title of the smiths song, have her hum a few lines.

Don't need to say "moleskin" notebook

The females crying when they don't know line is bad, and isn't true, at least they way you've written it.

Again, no one in this situation would talk about him fucking beautiful women, even if she was crazy.

The sternum/anatomy line is weird.

>> No.805795

I don't think OP's even here anymore. I'm still asking for critiques though.
http://a-k-a-z.deviantart.com/art/A-Sense-Made-For-Survival-166649900?q=1&qo=1
Changed the god-awful title. Still don't like it (the title or particularly the story) but at least it reflects a little bit more of the narrative's point.

>> No.805834

>>805795
Do you mind summarizing what happens in the story? I tried reading it but I just ended up confused, though that might reflect how tired I am right now.

At first glance though, my main criticism is that nearly every sentence follows the structure"X/They/he did/was ..."

>> No.805837

>>805834
Sorry I made a type at the end. What I meant to say was that the majority of your sentences follow the same structure. "[Subject] ......"

>> No.805846

>>805834
Essentially the story is that the guy is a pariah and his tribe basically sees him as useless at best, incompetently hazardous at worst. He has one friend, and they both understand the aesthetic pleasure of the world around them, but have difficulty communicating it to each other. One day Lonely decides to imitate his friend's doodlings in the dirt, but does it upon the cave wall, and he makes it a story that all of the fellow members relate to and see themselves in, and they accept him for it.
Yeah, it's not a good narrative. I suddenly realize the Gary Stu-ness of it, I was trying to imply his pathetic nature a little better but failed. Basically it's a comment about artists who are sullen and envious, also about the nature of art coming from both a place of solitude and a place of desire, and that essentially it is its own mating display of chest-thumping for the sake of sexual desire, hence a sense for survival.

>> No.805851

>>805846
Sullen and... envious isn't the right word, at least not exactly. Basically just leave it at sullen.
Anyhow, thanks, that's a good point about the sentence structure, it's very formulaic.

>> No.805887

>>805851
I reread it with the context in mind, and it's actually pretty decent. If I was you I would probably convert the names to another language (though this might kill the name rebirth bit you had at the end). The use of words as names, combined with how frequently you say their names was confusing, and at first I honestly thought you were describing a wolfpack. That's just my experience at least, smarter people might not have that problem.

>> No.805894

>>805887
Also as an afterthought, if you convert the names, I have an inkling that the repetition will be a lot more obvious. I.e. "John did X. Bob did Y" looks worse than "Lonely did X. Best Hunter did Y".

>> No.805899

>>805887
>>805894
Thanks for all that. Actually working on it now. I have an idea for making the names a little more clear, as well as adding details for making the characters clearly human. The sentence structure is pretty simple work for editing, but man you were right about that, it's very monotonous and repetitive. Thanks again.