Women

[Anonymous No.7935985]

Any literature that would help an introvert understand women and how they think? To catch up on the years and years of missed social interaction with them?

Someone who knows whats up. Someone who speaks on a more fundamental level about man's relation with women. And how women and their nature affects men.

Man in context with women. Women in context with themselves and men. What women are. And what the nature of man is in relation to women.

I am tired of half the people saying how women are vapid, shallow and inferior while the other half decries them as sexist, misogynistic and irrational.

Since I haven't and can't talk to a lot of women irl (And my experiences are biased) I was hoping some literary genius might offer some insight of some profundity.

[Anonymous No.7935990]

>>7935985
>Reading to make up for lack of social interaction
You're a clever one, buddy. Best of luck. I heard there's self help getting laid books.

[Anonymous No.7935992]

>>7935985
James Joyce

[Anonymous No.7935999]

>>7935985
Talk to people. Books don't help men understand other men better, and much less help men understand women, or vice versa. If you can't socialize, then just go over to /r9k/ and start hating women, because that's really the only thing you can do at that point.

[Anonymous No.7936003]

[Anonymous No.7936025]

>>7935985
Just go outside and talk to a woman long enough, you'll understand more than reading a book about them.

[Anonymous No.7936028]

>she will never be my gf

[Anonymous No.7936030]

>>7935985
they have the potential to be just as stupid as the dude next to them. the end.

[Anonymous No.7936041]

>>7935985
no lit tip, but if you enjoy yourself and what you do etc. the women come from themselves. if you seem needy, they dont want you. they should be the icing of the cake, if they feel like you want some cake and they are this cake they arent as attracted as if you enjoy your cake and, if it happens, you enjoy the icing as well. so focus on yourself and your hobbies and interests and friends and job and whatever, not on the women

[Anonymous No.7936044]

>>7935999
>>7936025

Can't talk to people that well. Specially women. They never really show interest desu since there are hundreds of other people vying for their attention anyway and I'm not exceptionally good looking or interesting to stand out. So I don't expect the favor of conversation from them.

(Also, the sex ratio in my country is a bit fucked up which explains the extent to which they're idolized here (as they're very scarce and therefore extremely sought after)).

I want to avoid the whole rigmarole of impressing women to "Earn"/prove myself "worthy" of their friendship. Partly because I've tried before and failed and partly because I do not understand how to participate in the rigmarole effectively.

I tried being myself but could not sustain any prolonged interest. Hence the request for literature that can provide some insight.

[Anonymous No.7936050]

>>7936044
>They never really show interest desu since there are hundreds of other people vying for their attention anyway and I'm not exceptionally good looking or interesting to stand out. So I don't expect the favor of conversation from them.
This should be enough information to make an opinion about women. What more do you need?

[Anonymous No.7936053]

>>7936044
Are you from China? Posting your spank folder really helps illustrating your issue. Have you ever talked to a grandma or a fat mother of five or an ugly women? Congrats, those are also women.

[Anonymous No.7936054]

Women are disgraced men

[Anonymous No.7936058]

There is.

[Anonymous No.7936061]

>>7936044
You're trying to avoid the fact that you already know enough about women. Don't deny it, women's true essence is disgusting.

What you're looking for is how to exploit their nature for your own purposes or some other reason. Either way, you're being dishonest to yourself and to us for pretending like you don't know how women are.

[Anonymous No.7936063]

>>7936041
> so focus on yourself and your hobbies and interests and friends and job and whatever, not on the women

Op here. Doing this leads to becoming invisible. In my experience the ones who were noticed by women were those who paid excessive attention to them and pursued them relentlessly (even if that meant debasing themselves). There's no shortage of men who'd be much more conspicuous by overtly pursuing them.

>>7936050
A deeper insight than what I have.

>>7936053
No but close.

>>7936054
explain

[Anonymous No.7936071]

>>7935985
Alright you have two routes to go if you fix your shit, A. Become enamoured in the online seduction communities such as r/seduction, PUA (pick up artists) and learn to get sex. Note: it's highly important that you actually talk to people but they help. Option B. is to search for love, that means increasing your social spread in both genders and read Ovid's The Art of Love

[Anonymous No.7936088]

>>7936061

I don't to be honest. What I've surmised seems to go slightly against what the general narrative seems to be (and what I've been told to think about women). At the same time I acknowledge that my opinions might be biased and flawed which is why I was hoping for some literary person to have thought and written about it.

>>7936071
Option A: PUA: seems in some sense debasement to me. It seems strange to me that one must come up with such contrived and elaborate schemes in order to gain closeness to women. Something that most people do effortlessly and naturally.

Option B seems much better but increasing social spread is tough for someone to whom literally every pop cultural trope of introversion and social seclusion applies.

>read ovid's art of love.
thanks for the suggestion. I will.

[Anonymous No.7936164]

>>7936044
You need to stop trying to hang around vain hotties. I talk to women frequently and I haven't had to do shit to impress them. All I "did" was have conversations with people in places like writers' groups, and at the work place, which occur naturally if you're not totally socially retarded. Sometimes I approached women but most of the time they approached me since I'm not outgoing in the least. I'm not good looking in the slightest, but I'm friendly and I learned how to talk to people in a way that doesn't sound forced, so people know that I'm okay to approach if they just want to shoot the shit. Also, the "just b urself" meme only applies when you are an interesting, well adjusted person, and if you're not, you can still eventually grow into one.

The first step on that course would be to never talk to people on a lonely men's board like /lit/; it's just /r9k/ for pseuds. You'd do better to get a hobby, join a hobbyist club, and go on from there. Also, stop basing your interactions with others on their gender, it will only obfuscate what your actually doing wrong in the interaction. Get some self awareness, and become a better judge of character instead of defaulting to stereotype when you interact with people. Also, move, since the country you live in sounds like a terrible place.

[Anonymous No.7936172]

im a female who can answer questions for you if you want anon

[Anonymous No.7936190]

>>7936053
>Have you ever talked to a fat mother of five or an ugly women?

well fuck no. why the fuck would i?

[Anonymous No.7936191]

start with the greeks

[Anonymous No.7936198]

>>7935992
This. The Penelope chapter is the most insightful thing ever written on how women think.

[Anonymous No.7936202]

In Praise Of Older Women

[Anonymous No.7936203]

read books by women.

[Anonymous No.7936276]

1) Imagine you have inherent value to other people.
1.1) You are therefore constantly being viewed.
1.1.1) You are contantly concerned about how you appear to others.
1.2) You justifying yourself isn't necessary or important.
1.2.1) You can do want you want so long as it aligns with others' expectations.
1.3) Your primary way of exercizing your will is through manipulation and bartering through your own inherent value.

To understand the problems of men's mentalities, remove inherent value and see the consequences.

[Anonymous No.7936285]

>>7936276
>1)
>1.1)
>1.1.1)
>1.2)
REEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.7936338]

>>7936285
Any issues, kid?

[Anonymous No.7936340]

grils are pretty spooky hoo hoo hoo

[Anonymous No.7936345]

people need to get over their obsession with women. they're cool but not remarkably so, just like anyone else

[Anonymous No.7936348]

>>7936345
they look cool though

[Anonymous No.7936351]

>>7936044

>I want to avoid the whole rigmarole of impressing women to "Earn"/prove myself "worthy" of their friendship.

this is what asians actually think.

[Anonyrnous No.7936359]

>>7936285
>what is a Tractus
>Trackus
>Trattoria
>Tractactus

[Anonymous No.7936363]

>>7936348

just choose gay, it's so much easier

[Anonymous No.7936364]

>>7936276
>men
wut?

[Anonymous No.7936373]

>>7935985
Stop caring about them. Just do shit you like doing and invest in that. Some girl will pop up along the way

You could always just end being the cool guy in his early 30's banging 18 year old brats. just focus on making money and reading

[Anonymous No.7936381]

Maupassant is very good a this, though he's pretty pessimistic about relationships, and you have to be able to see past that.

[Anonymous No.7936411]

>>7936063
are you korean?

[Anonymous No.7936420]

Stop acting like you've never seen a girl before with every girl you meet. Also just settle for a fwb if you can't find your "true love" or whatever fedora notion you have on relationships.

[Anonymous No.7936446]

>>7936164
Thank you. What you describe seems sound.
>most of the time they approached me
really doesn't work this way here but as you mentioned, I'll try to grow into one. It's a bit of a confused growth since I'm not really sure how to go about it while at the same time fighting off cynicism and and self-hatred.
>never talk to people on a lonely men's board like /lit/
literally one of the few places where i can speak something relevant comfortably.
>get a hobby and go on from there
working on this.
>stop basing your interactions with others on their gender
I agree. I don't do this. But for some reason my conversations are more strained with women than with men.
>move, since the country you live in sounds like a terrible place.
yeah. working on that.

[Anonymous No.7936469]

The Bell Jar

[Anonymous No.7936488]

>>7936191
I already have.
>>7935992
>>7936198
thanks. will check it out

>>7936276
>imagine you have inherent value to other people.
not sure whether to laugh or to feel extremely sad and pathetic. but you pretty much lost me here. i can't practice self-delusion to this extent.

>>7936345
yet you see every other writer, small or great, write about love, lust, affection and women.

>>7936373
this. I want to do this. But as much as I can pretend to adopt an air of indifference and focus on self improvement, it kind of kills me that I'm missing the quintessential experience that most people go through in their youth. something that drives away loneliness.

but yeah, trying to distract myself through books and stuff.

>>7936420
in a conservative society, it is much much tougher to find a fwb instead of a girl who has more romantic notions of a relationship. you'd be looked at with disgust for being a desperate loser to even suggest something similar to fwb to girl.

>>7936469
thanks. will check it out.

[Anonymous No.7936570]

>L-L-LOOK GUYS, A GIRL

Kill yourselves. All of you.

[Anonymous No.7936577]

>>7935985
Posting pics of underaged girls on a Chinese cartoon forum will get you losers nowhere.

[Anonymous No.7936627]

"they are not worth it"
-genius about women

[Anonymous No.7936883]

>>7935992
>>7936003
>>7936058
>>7936202
>>7936381
>>7936469

thank you for the recommendations. feel free to suggest more.

[Anonymous No.7936926]

>>7936488

Thanks for posting one of my all time favourite pictures anon. Here, have some more.

[Anonymous No.7936955]

"Way of the superiour man"?

[Anonymous No.7936982]

>>7936883
half of those are memes and the game is a story, not a manual
read Models by Mark Manson and the Book of Pook and it should be enough.

[Anonymous No.7937006]

>>7936926
>no tits / 10

[Anonymous No.7937016]

>>7936172
you're not otherwise, tits or gtfo

>>7936276
>remove inherent value and see the consequences
this

>>7936063
>>>7936053
>No but close
so you're chinese, yet you desire white women. kek.

[Anonymous No.7937024]

What about literature to understand men?

[Anonymous No.7937027]

>>7936063
is this what passes as pretty in the US these days?

[Anonymous No.7937063]

>>7937027
Nah man they're just sad cumsluts

[Anonymous No.7937068]

>>7937063
no. they're living life filled with happiness and joy with innumerable men who'd do anything to be with them. compare that to this thread and think again about what is sadder.

[Anonymous No.7937070]

Understanding women is a difficult thing.

[Anonymous No.7937073]

[Anonymous No.7937076]

>>7937024
watch fuck films

[Anonymous No.7937081]

I'm a proud Reddit rationalist! Judge everything in life using cold scientific logic, but judge women using only individual anecdotes, because otherwise you are "generalizing!"

[Anonymous No.7937084]

>>7936926
Those eyes, either she's high as a kite or is a literal Semen Gargoyle

[Anonymous No.7937086]

>>7937073
>remember when you were 8 and didn't have responsibilities and whatever you did, people would compliment you

...damn. I don't remember the last time i got a compliment.

[Anonymous No.7937087]

>>7937084
They always look like that when you choke them during sex. It's just what eyes do when you're being choked, or something.

[Anonymous No.7937101]

>>7937081

It's a very huge idiot that substantiates his arguments with events from reality TV.

[Anonymous No.7937131]

>Women have conceptualized less in history not because men have kept them from doing so but because women do not need to conceptualize in order to exist. […] Fetishism, for instance, a practice which like most of the sex perversions is confined to men, is clearly a conceptualizing or symbol-making activity. Man’s vastly greater commercial patronage of pornography is analogous.

>That nature acts differently upon the sexes is proved by the test case of modern male and female homosexuality, illustrating how the sexes function separately outside social conventions. The results, according to statistics of sexual frequency: male satyriasis and female nesting. The male homosexual has more sex than his heterosexual counterpart; the female homosexual less often than hers, a radical polarization of the sexes along a single continuum of shared sexual nonconformity. Male aggression and lust are the energizing factors in culture. They are men’s tools of survival in the pagan vastness of female nature.

>We could make an epic catalog of male achievements, from paved roads, indoor plumbing, and washing machine to eyeglasses, antibiotics and disposable diapers. We enjoy safe, fresh milk and meat, and vegetables and tropical fruits heaped in snowbound cities. When I cross the George Washington Bridge or any of America’s great bridges, I think: men have done this. Construction is a sublime male poetry. When I see a see a giant crane passing on a flatbed truck, I pause in awe and reverence as would for a church processions.

>The Orestia shows that society is a defense against nature. Everything intelligible -- institutions, objects, persons, ideas -- is the result of Apollonian clarification, adjudication, and action. Western politics, science, psychology and art are creations of arrogant Apollo. Through every century, winning or losing, western mind has struggled to keep nature at bay. The Orestia’s sexist transition from matriarchy to patriarchy records the rebellion every imagination must make against nature. Without that rebellion, we as a species are condemned to regression or stasis. Even rebelling, we cannot get far. But vying with fate is godlike.

>Women have been discouraged from genres such as sculpture that require studio training or expensive materials. But in philosophy, mathematics, and poetry, the only materials are pen and paper. Male conspiracy cannot explain all female failures. I am convinced that, even without restrictions, there still would have been no female Pascal, Milton, or Kant. Genius is not checked by social obstacles: it will overcome. Men's egotism, so disgusting in the talentless, is the source of their greatness as a sex. [...] Even now, with all vocations open, I marvel at the rarity of the woman driven by artistic or intellectual obsession, that self-mutilating derangement of social relationship which, in its alternate forms of crime and ideation, is the disgrace and glory of the human species.

[Anonymous No.7937145]

>>7937131
Pretty good. Where's it from?

[Anonymous No.7937155]

Karen Straughan:
"In other words, women don't make choices; choices are made for women by society, by institutions, by circumstances, and by men. Women need not adapt their choices, actions, behaviors, and priorities in order to become empowered through their own actions: society, institutions, circumstances, and men should all adapt so that women - inert objects that they are perceived to be - can have an obstacle-free path along which they will be "guided" by "encouragement", "steered" in the proper directions and not "forced" to change course by any difficulty, real or imaginary, so that empowerment can be "gotten" for them. You get my point.

Agents make things happen, and objects have things happen to them, right? In the gendered worldview of feminism and the wider culture, women cannot be counted on to make things happen, they must have things be made to happen for them. They're objects, not agents."

[Anonymous No.7937156]

>>7935985
Twilight

[Anonymous No.7937167]

>>7937145
>What is google.

[Anonymous No.7937175]

>CTRL+F
>search for "George Eliot"
>no results

Holy fuck, guys. You really don't read, do you?

[Anonymous No.7937192]

>>7937175
Keep the overused memes and jokes for /pol/, little man

[Anonymous No.7937245]

>>7937145
It's Camille Paglia.

She's pretty great.

[Anonymous No.7937271]

>>7935985
>introvert
You're just a retard who wants to get hot girls but doesn't know how to and won't put in any effort. You'll have to impress them in some way, which is what you don't want to do because it's hard since you're not hot yourself. If you just want to talk to women, then pick average or ugly girls and talk to them like you would any other person, not like a retard or random person off the street which is probably what you do/did. They're exceptions but you clearly can't handle it.

[Anonymous No.7937285]

>>7937073
This, plus read up on the effects of estrogen and testosterone on cognition. However, the existence of beta men who spoil and fail to stand up to women when necessary is the key to understanding when women don't think like men.

I don't think women are subhuman or inherently trash. My girlfriend is beautiful, kind, and goes to an elite medical school, and I know other women like her who I love to be around. With a loving, supportive family, some but not too much pressure to succeed careerwise, and friends who've had the same, a woman can think an awful lot like a man, whether she is beautiful, hideous, smart or dumb.

Beta men, however, will do anything within their grasp to please women, and these are the majority of men. Betas will spoil women rotten (men can be spoiled rotten too, but the conditions for it aren't as familiar), stab more attractive, confident men in the back, and generally cause chaos in the hopes of touching a vagina.

I don't think that women were often spoiled in primitive societies, and that this is something that started with more prosperous agrarian societies where wealthy men started going out of their way to buy sexual access.

[Anonymous No.7937296]

>>7936058
This book is fucking awesome. Wether or not you get laid read it anyways. Funny as shit

[Anonymous No.7937316]

>>7936276

>women have more inherent value in society's eyes than men

hahahahahaha

t. every man ever who hasn't slimed their way here straight out of /r9k/

[Anonymous No.7937338]

>>7937316
There are plenty of men who will lavish affection, time and money on shit-tier women just because they are women and these men feel the need for a woman in their lives. That's inherent value.

A shit-tier man is not going to be given attention, time or money from anyone, because nobody feels the need for a lazy ugly man in their lives in any capacity except maybe to keep the mailroom working.

The key word is INHERENT. Obviously society values dynamic, accomplished men more highly than most women.

[Anonymous No.7937339]

>>7937316
feminists confuse "women are useless" for "women are valueless"

women are useless because they are so inherently valuable. they don't need to develop any skills or personality, so they don't, so they are useless. men treat them slightly poorly, mostly by accident, because of that.

[Anonymous No.7937350]

>>7935985

'On Women' by Schopenhauer has everything you'll ever need to know

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/essays/chapter5.html

>Neither for music, nor for poetry, nor for fine art have they any real or true sense and susceptibility, and it is mere mockery on their part, in their desire to please, if they affect any such thing.

>This makes them incapable of taking a purely objective interest in anything, and the reason for it is, I fancy, as follows. A man strives to get direct mastery over things either by understanding them or by compulsion. But a woman is always and everywhere driven to indirect mastery, namely through a man; all her direct mastery being limited to him alone. Therefore it lies in woman’s nature to look upon everything only as a means for winning man, and her interest in anything else is always a simulated one, a mere roundabout way to gain her ends, consisting of coquetry and pretence. Hence Rousseau said, Les femmes, en général, n’aiment aucun art, ne se connoissent à aucun et n’ont aucun génie (Lettre à d’Alembert, note xx.). Every one who can see through a sham must have found this to be the case.

>Nothing different can be expected of women if it is borne in mind that the most eminent of the whole sex have never accomplished anything in the fine arts that is really great, genuine, and original, or given to the world any kind of work of permanent value...And Huarte, in his book which has been famous for three hundred years, Examen de ingenios para las scienzias, contends that women do not possess the higher capacities. Individual and partial exceptions do not alter the matter; women are and remain, taken altogether, the most thorough and incurable philistines; and because of the extremely absurd arrangement which allows them to share the position and title of their husbands they are a constant stimulus to his ignoble ambitions. And further, it is because they are philistines that modern society, to which they give the tone and where they have sway, has become corrupted. As regards their position, one should be guided by Napoleon’s maxim, Les femmes n’ont pas de rang; and regarding them in other things, Chamfort says very truly: Elles sont faites pour commercer avec nos faiblesses avec notre folie, mais non avec notre raison. Il existe entre elles et les hommes des sympathies d’épiderme et très-peu de sympathies d’esprit d’âme et de caractère. They are the sexus sequior, the second sex in every respect.

[Anonymous No.7937353]

>>7937338
>There are plenty of women who will lavish affection, time and money on shit-tier men just because they are men and these women feel the need for a man in their lives. That's inherent value.
Same shit, try another hypothesis

[Anonymous No.7937361]

>>7937353
I would argue that cases where women devote themselves to unattractive, non-wealthy, unaccomplished men just to have some dick in their lives are few and far between fringe events, not something that happens so frequently as to be an organizing principle of society, so no, it's not the same shit.

[Anonymous No.7937378]

>>7937361
this.

[Anonymous No.7937380]

>>7937361
That's great and all but you presented no research data to back that up.

[Anonymous No.7937388]

>>7937380
Sorry you don't know literally any people or have the powers of discernment to judge them and notice what they do.

[Anonymous No.7937398]

>>7937388
I'm sorry that you don't know any females nor have the powers to approach one without setting off the creepometer.

[Anonymous No.7937405]

stop being a dense asshole. there is the same variety of women as there are men. the same cool people, same idiots, the same whatever in between.

women aren't this "thing to understand." women are people. in all its idiocy and glory like men.

no book can teach you how to grow up and quit being a dense retard. you might find small insights here and there but you really have to talk that road all on your own or you will never grow up.

[Anonymous No.7937428]

>>7937398
>mfw I've dated doctors, investment bankers, artists, dancers and semi-pro athletes and people on 4chan still call me a virgin for engaging in these debates
Why do I even still come here?

[Anonymous No.7937431]

>>7937405

>women are people

[Anonymous No.7937435]

>>7937339

Women are valued in so far as they have a vagina and make it available (but not too available) in order to fulfil a certain socio-biological niche.

Men are valued according to their worth.

If you're a worthless man bitching that you don't have a vagina and therefore nobody gives you free shit, fuck you. Sincerely, fuck you. Just stop whining and do something. You're like a fat acceptance bitch on tumblr whining that people are wrong not to find you attractive.

[Anonymous No.7937444]

>>7937405
I agree that going out and talking to women is the most important step,
but your stant that the fact that there are different women making trying to capture information about women, as a category, meaningless... this is not an argument.

There are many general statements you can take as guidelines in starting to understand how the actions of a standard women can be expected to differ from that of a man.
The thread here focuses on the point that women are spoiled and overprotected (surely true, the statement "I hate men!" is socially acceptible, while "I hate women!" is not something someone can get away with on /tv/ without being disliked by a lot of people)

[Anonymous No.7937445]

>>7935985
The Portrait of a Lady

[Anonymous No.7937446]

>>7937435
>If you're a worthless man bitching that you don't have a vagina and therefore nobody gives you free shit, fuck you. Sincerely, fuck you.

No one is doing that. I am saying women should stop being valued for having a vagina, so they stop being perpetual children, and men should stop valuing women for having vaginas.

I did do something with my life. That's exactly why women are fucking disgusting to me. They are children.

[Anonymous No.7937459]

>>7937446

I mean basically I agree but it's unlikely, biology dictates that men pursue women and therefore vaginas are valuable. The way out of this, ironically enough considering the views of the typical person who has a problem with it, is feminism.

You're generalising too hard. I'm sorry you've encountered some shitty women but, hey, I could point you to some women with tales of shitty men. If a girl complains that she always encounters assholes who beat her up or try to control her or whatever, I bet you roll your eyes and judge her for her poor choices, right? So how come you get to complain with impunity that you always encounter entitled, bratty girls?

You know what? I've never met a girl like that. Not in any way that matters. Yeah, I've seen them around, I guess, just like I see thuggish guys. But I leave them to do their thing; I don't expose myself to them. I have no interest in dumb bitches and therefore dumb bitches aren't a problem for me. I've looked for girls I can connect with on a human level, and I've found them. Not a whole lot of them, just like I haven't found a whole lot of worthwhile dudes either. Good people of any gender are tough to find. But if you look, and if you screen out the shit ones rather than trying to fuck them and then getting mad about how awful they are, you can find them.

[Anonymous No.7937479]

Look OP don't listen to most people on this thread, specially woman haters.
You need to develop yourself as a man, OP. You are probably no good with people in general, not only with women. You can't really get 'great' at socializing by reading books, they surely can help if you are a top tier autist who doesn't understand basic human interactions, but you still need to go and talk to people.
>Develop a healthy lifestyle, go to the gym, dress yourself nicely,eat healthy food, learn to feel good about yourself.
>Read, you probably already do this (since you are on /lit/), read all kinds of book, stop being pretentious and condescending to people.
>Drop the drugs, alcohol and tobacco, this things can make you feel good for a while and even make things 'easier' but you will depend on them forever and feel like shit if you don't have them. Learn to socialize without being drunk or high.
>Stop being stimulated all the time (watching TV, browsing the internet, listening to music, etc) Try being in a room without doing anything for 15 minutes.
>Stop procastinating
>Get negative and toxic people out of your life, even if they are your family. Stop browsing 4chan if you are 'weak minded'
Do all this for a couple of months, you will probably feel shitty for a while and then you'll start to feel better.
Now you need to talk to people, talk to the fucking garbage man if you need to. Learn from your mistakes, if people react in a negative way then change little things in your behaviour..
..........

[Anonymous No.7937482]

>>7937459
Feminism is the way out of it in the sense that radical hyperfeminism entails a rejection of the perpetual infancy that women are in, but look what TWO FUCKING CENTURIES of feminism got you: Not only have they not become people, they've regressed from patriarchal non-agency to prehistoric non-agency, where all that matters is them being queen bees of cock harems.

We've tried it your way for two centuries, your way being continually apologising for them. Men have perverted every instance of feminism by using it as a platform to surreptitiously pander to them. The only thing we haven't tried is telling them honestly and clearly that they are disgusting non-humans.

This shit is exactly why your project of pseudo-feminism will never work;
>You're generalising [Generalising is valid]
>There are bad people of both genders!! [golden mean fallacy, nicey nice cop-out]
>I'm sorry you've ... [Anecdotes etc.]
>Girls have such a hard time! [Who cares? Men kill themselves three times more. That's why men are actually good, because they have sufficient pressure to create greatness, and no one excuse them from manning up to face it.]
>blah blah blah more anecdotes

The fundamental problem with your vision is that you want men to do all the fucking work. IT'S ABOUT FEMALE AGENCY. GET THEM TO CULTIVATE DISGUST WITH THEMSELVES AND MAYBE ONE OR TWO OF THEM WILL DISCOVER UNUSED RESERVOIRS OF "MAN-LIKE" POTENTIAL.

Read this:
>>7937155

Stop fucking excusing them. You are right: Men are never going to stop worshiping them. So tell them to reject male supplication as sickening, and especially to reject surreptitious supplication, e.g. in the form of "Oh I'm such a feminist :^) You go girl! Don't worry, it wasn't your fault! It's men's fault! I'll never judge you! I forgive you for being awful!"

Stop forgiving them for being awful. They have to go through a long dark night of the soul and come out the other side as something we didn't fucking create for them and lay down at their feet. Stop trying to GIVE them feminism, stop trying to GIVE them a place in the world, and maybe they will make their own.

Above all, stop implicitly using the great hobbler of women - their role as sexual selectors - as a cudgel to silence men who dare besmirch them. Sit down with some tea and phenomenologically reflect on your kneejerk tendency to question the "virility" of every man as soon as he dares dislike a woman. Think of what that implies.

[Anonymous No.7937512]

>>7937380
>muh empiricism

[Anonymous No.7937516]

>>7937479
The more people you talk to the better, learn to hold conversations. Talk about random stuff with people.
If you go to clubs you can try all kinds of stuff there. Force yourself to do it, you'll NEVER get good if you don't.

So now after a couple of months, you look better, eat healthier, get more shit done and are somehow better with social interactions.
There are some tips to make you instantly 'better' at social interactions, this are pretty basic (probably your mom and your dad already told you this)but a lot of people don't do it.
>smile
>look people in the eyes
>have good posture
>use your hands when expressing yourself

Now you are out of autismo mode, you are a regular likeable person. Stop being condescending, stop being ironic and sarcastic when talking to people, MOST people dislike it, dont look down on people. Make good friends and keep them around, get bad people out of your life instantly (men and women).
If a girl is giving you a hard time, most of the time is not worth it and you should dump her. This can make some women even more attracted to you and you'll gain 'power' in the relationship (if that's what you want).

You WILL NEVER be liked by everyone, there will be always people who will hate on you or won't like you. Stop caring about them. Same with women, there are women who will think you are a piece of shit and sleep with some fat loser afterwards, and there's nothing you can do about it.Don't give importance to this events, and keep developing yourself.

>BUT BUT ALL THIS GUYS WHO FUCK CUTE GIRLS AINT DOING ALL THAT SHIT ? DEVELOPING ? LMAO I WANT TO FUCK
Yes but you aren't one of those guys, you are some autismo boy. Sure there are men out there who are naturally good with people and will fuck gorgeous women without much effort, but you aren't one of them and probably never will.
One more tip: start dating several women at the same time (if you can), this will make everything much easier and you'll be less needy

[Anonymous No.7937518]

>>7937479

thank you for typing this out for me senpai.
>Develop a healthy lifestyle, go to the gym,
have begun doing this
>learn to feel good about yourself.
this will take a long long time anon. right now i have nothing but hate for myself.
>>Drop the drugs, alcohol and tobacco, this things can
funny you mention this. I was about to consider starting alcohol before talking to people so that it might be easier and help me ease into being a social person
>>Stop being stimulated all the time (watching ....
I spend a fuckton of time on /lit/. Not much stimulation apart from that. I think I'll try to spend that time more a bit more constructively..
>Get negative and toxic people out of your life,
there are none.there are only people who're much much better than me. who i stay away from to avoid feeling ashamed/embarrassed.


but yes, I need to put some effort even if it is initially painful into re-establishing some sense of social skill in me. because the solitary road doesn't seem too bright. I swear i wouldn't have this much of a problem if i wasn't such human garbage. but I genuinely think that you're right when you mention that self-improvement and effort in socializing will help me.

thanks again for your post.

[Anonymous No.7937526]

>>7935985
Just fuck dudes man

[Anonymous No.7937538]

>>7937428
>>7937512
>mfw I know lots of people and have judged them and noticed what they do and people on 4chan still call me a hikki NEET fedora for engaging in these debates

[Anonymous No.7937542]

>>7937516
>>7937518

I generally just look down at the ground wherever I am to avoid eye contact and the possibility of a conversation. If one starts, I am only polite and sincere with them but I eventually get a bit panicky and anxious and try to end the conversation with some excuse (such as having to go home or something).

>Yes but you aren't one of those guys, ...
I needed to hear this. I accept that fully and want to work to be a better person if that is what it takes.

My lifestyle is a bit unproductive which I need to fix. And since i can't talk to people that well, I've been avoiding them which causes further deterioration. The only way out is risking initial failure and interacting with people more to get used to it.

>start dating several women
where do i find women? outside uni? clubs/bars are a bit expensive. it's a bit tough to even find a single date but i'll try.

[Anonymous No.7937553]

>>7937482
>queen bees of cock harem
The queen bees rule over the fellow women. So what do you focus on here, leading the peer geoup or having orbiters?

[Anonymous No.7937562]

>>7937553
In the current orgyporgy they just "share" alphas by being shared by the alphas. There's no need for competition or exclusivity because they don't have to see the other girls.

[Anonymous No.7937571]

>>7937482

>reflect on your kneejerk tendency to question the "virility" of every man as soon as he dares dislike a woman

Nah buddy, you're only seeing what you want to see. I dislike plenty of women, including anyone who accepts it when the world wants to treat her as a prize.

I just don't think all women are like that, because my experience doesn't support that. In my experience, as many men as women have been ruined by society; if I really wanted to troll you, I'd sub out 'society' for 'the patriarchy' in that sentence, and honestly it wouldn't be inaccurate.

[Anonymous No.7937574]

>>7937538
no one called you a hikki or a neet but either you're a fedora or tragically misguided if you think something needs to be corroborated by some bogus study to be true. You have all the tools to independently evaluate such a claim; you don't need spoon fed, and you don't need some authority to figure to tell you how to think.

[Anonymous No.7937581]

>>7935985
interact with all humans the same, with love and kindness, with fresh bants. Not that hard

[Anonymous No.7937588]

>>7937574
>Sorry you don't know literally any people or have the powers of discernment to judge them and notice what they do.
reading comprehension, brah

[Anonymous No.7937601]

>>7935985
Make some female friends, anon, and stop being so spergy. When you're not hanging out with your new female companions, try reading everything by Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, and Janet Frame. They all write really well about issues that are specific to women's experience.

>>7936164
>>7937479
This is all true.

[Anonymous No.7937621]

>>7937571
>I just don't think all women are like that,

I don't either, but we're talking about systemic problems here, not individuals.

>In my experience, as many men as women have been ruined by society;

This is deceptive. They are ruined in different ways. What you are saying implies I am setting up a false dichotomy like "men are good and women are bad."

Men have a lot of problems. We're not talking about those. We're talking about the fact that women are being denied agency by systemic social issues.

I don't give a fuck about anecdotes. I'm married to an anecdote but it doesn't change my opinion of the general situation.

[Anonymous No.7937628]

>>7937542
I used to be like this, even worse m8, I was afraid to talk to anybody and was basically a hikikomori for a couple of years.
I don't really like to talk about this 'development' stuff because it sounds kind of corny and cliche. Sounds like the shit parents talk about but we never listen, but it works.

I used drugs for years (smoked weed every day, took molly or LSD for parties, benzos to get comfy, tobbacco and alchol everyday) but after you stop you'll feel really bad, at least I did, I got some hardcore depression and eternal boredom of everything. Drugs are an awesome experience but using them all the time is not sustainable. Anyday drugs can stop being available and you'll drift into dark places. This can happen when you are young, you have nothing to lose, and have time, but lets say you use drugs for 20 years and stop in your 40's, you'll be a mess, probably go into depression with more responsibilites and less time. That's why I don't reccomend using them to 'cure' social anxiety.

Start looking people in the eyes, it might be weird first, but then it will become a habit. I mean really dude, how hard it is to just move your eyes and look at the other person ? Its just moving your eyes m8, its REALLY not that hard, think about it.
Another thing to consider is that, a lot of times you'll set a goal, lets say: go to the gym or stop browsing 4chan or whatever, you do it for a couple of weeks or months and then, you slowly stop being commited and you are back where you were before even starting. This is called psychological homeostasis. Basically means you are 'hardwired' to return to that one comfy state you are now in, but you need to fight against that. Everytime you notice you are procastinatig again, stop it and do something else, even if it's chores or work or whatever the fuck.

Where to meet girls ? You can meet them anywhere, the street, online, in clubs. I recomend clubs because you are basically expected to talk to strangers there. If you get blown out it's not a big deal just talk to another girl.

[Anonymous No.7937636]

>>7936164
>stop trying to hang around vain hotties
I'm pretty sure that when people ask how to understand "women" they really mean "vain hotties," and who can blame them? One can go a long time without feeling the need do much with any other kind of woman, but those vain hotties stir up desires that are hard to ignore in a way that other people don't. Saying "just stop that" doesn't really help OP any more than suggesting that someone just never try eating chocolate if he asks you what it's like.

I say this as someone who's dated vain hotties and now dates someone less glamorously sexy who makes me more happy than those other girls ever did. Getting to this point is a long journey, and I think anyone who skips trying to get those hot girls is going to feel regret because they'll always idealize them.

[Anonymous No.7937680]

>>7937405
>women aren't this "thing to understand." women are people
so you think that people aren't a thing to understand? what then?

[Anonymous No.7937683]

>>7935985
nah

[Anonymous No.7937718]

>>7937621

But you're building your whole social critique from anecdotes of 'bitches and whores'. Throwing around generalisations like 'all that matters is them being queen bees of cock harems.'

This is pure nonsense that seems to have been formulated without reference to external reality, and I guarantee that if you actually can support it with any evidence at all then it will be anecdotal.

I don't know why you're so bitter, especially if you've actually found a good woman to marry, but it's making you shit at thinking.

[Anonymous No.7937726]

>>7937718
>he's never been to college
Hardly a majority of women, but a lot of the most beautiful and intellectually capable ones pretty much spent their time maintaining their status as queen bitch at a couple of fraternities and sports teams. This was at an elite liberal arts college too.

[Anonymous No.7937749]

>>7937718
Not the person you're responding to, but if you don't already hold these things to be self evident you either need to get out of the basement more or you're just willfully ignorant. Or you're a woman.

It's no coincidence that the board for discussion of literature - the historical and intellectual refuge of the beta male - is full of people who still harbor a romanticist, pedestalized view of the "fairer sex". It can only be held onto because your sole interaction with women is through the pages of a book. You're inexperienced.

[Anonymous No.7937784]

>>7937726

confirmed anecdotal.

It's not that I don't believe you, I just don't get why you care so much. Like, of fucking course most of the student body of any college/university is going to be full of retards. It's not a question of gender. The guys are acting like fuckwits too.

>>7937749

Says the guy who has evidently formed his opinion of women by confirming the bias of his own limited experience through /r9k/ and manosphere drivel.

I've been to university, worked in blue collar jobs, worked in white collar jobs, had female friends and coworkers, had long term girlfriends and short term flings. This isn't about me refusing to confront reality, this is about me having a lived experience that leaves me wondering what the fuck you guys are talking about. You're so hung up on why women are shit and I don't get it. Yes, some women are shit. Many women, even. Many men are also shit. People are often shit. Society has problems. Why make it this narrative about bitches and whores? Honestly you may as well blame it all on the Jews (inb4 some dual polrobot comes along to obligingly do both at once)

[Anonymous No.7937785]

what's it called when you despise people who are attracted to you?

once someone is like "hey cutie" i'm like "wow, you must be one ignorant person to think that, get away from me"

[Anonymous No.7937796]

>>7937749
>>7937726
>>7937621
>>7937482
>>7937446

I kind of agree here but was a bit afraid to admit this to myself because I felt that it would be extremely misogynistic of me to think this way. Due to the extremely left-liberal education and environment I've been subjected to, I revolt at the slightest idea of making a general statement about women no matter how much I feel it agrees with what I've observed. So for the longest time I've just attributed what my agreements with what you've said to an irrational bias that I'm developing and need to get rid of.

I did not know that this is a position that is actually seriously held by others as well. I barely see anyone who dares to say anything like this in real life because he would most certainly be looked at with disgust.

[Anonymous No.7937825]

>>7937784
People are "hung up on it" because this site is big on contrarianism. Right now, the main views being repeated in mainstream and non-anonymous social media is that women are angels who need a hand from the government and men to make up for how mean men are to them. The sorta unspoken agreement a lot of 4chan users feel is in place here is that critiquing such views is well and appropriate here. People are doing this for fun, and competing with each other for attention due to the anonymous nature of the site, so yeah, extreme stuff is going to be said. A lot.

Coming in to a thread where people are doing that and going "woah, slow down, lets see some moderation here" is just a strange, quixotic thing to do.

Also your points are just so silly.
>confirmed anecdotal
>It's not that I don't believe you, I just don't get why you care so much. Like, of fucking course most of the student body of any college/university is going to be full of retards. It's not a question of gender. The guys are acting like fuckwits too.
This is just tone-policing. I'm wasting time on 4chan, not organizing an anti-slut rally. How much I care is immaterial.

[Anonymous No.7937842]

>>7937680
they are a thing to understand. in the context of what we're talking about I meant the differences in understanding women as you would men.

context and reading comprehension! try it out!

[Anonymous No.7937853]

>>7937784
>your anecdotes are wrong because they're anecdotes
>here are some anecdotes why they're wrong

Classic.

>you're /pol/ or /r9k/

Railing against perceived sweeping generalizations by using a baseless sweeping generalization, you're a special kind of chucklehead.

[Anonymous No.7937923]

>>7935985
Just go and talk to women you fucking creep. If you're a creep, de-creep yourself or be ready for a steady stream of failure.

[Anonymous No.7937954]

>>7937516
>One more tip: start dating several women at the same time

There is no way this could backfire hysterically.

[Anonymous No.7937980]

>>7937954
You have a lot to learn.

[Anonymous No.7937986]

>>7935985
That looks more like a teenage girl than a woman.

[Anonymous No.7937993]

>>7937986
This. You people are degenerates that will die alone. Now mods get this off my fucking board.

[Anonymous No.7937995]

>>7937749

>still perceives the world through the alpha/beta dichotomy

I recall being 15.

[Anonymous No.7937997]

>>7937986
women are in a perpetual child-state so the only real difference is physical aging and getting poked

[Anonymous No.7937998]

>>7937954
>beta detected
So long as you don't pretend to be exclusive with one of them it's all Gucci.

[Anonymous No.7938004]

>>7937796
>I love the great despisers, because they are the great adorers, and arrows of longing for the other shore.

[Anonymous No.7938006]

>>7937825

>arguing with people on 4chan is a strange thing to do
>here let me argue with you on 4chan

okay m8

And don't hide behind 'contrarianism' to excuse your shitty views. I believe that when a bunch of 14 year olds first got together on /b/ 13 years ago and got kicks from typing 'nigger' a lot, that was senseless contrarianism. The anti-female thing on 4chan (and for that matter reddit, and half the rest of the internet) these days is not just that. It's a genuine movement, and it's fucking depressing.

Tone policing has nothing to do with it, if what you mean is 'people are shit' but what you say is 'women are shit', that's a serious problem with the way you're expressing yourself.

>>7937853

>your anecdotes are wrong because they're anecdotes
>here are some anecdotes why they're wrong

Yes, this is an accurate summary of the way the other poster responded to me, thanks for making my point so succinctly. He called me out for deploying anecdotes and then he came in with some of his own about going to college and seeing women acting like whores.

I'm not making any pretence of staying away from anecdotes; this whole argument is founded on anecdotes, because honestly nobody thinks this way unless they themselves have been mistreated. The most anyone could hope to do is make someone think twice about the way they're interpreting their anecdotes.

>baseless sweeping generalization
>baseless
>/r9k/ hating women
>/pol/ hating jews
>baseless

you must be new

nice use of the word chucklehead though

[Anonymous No.7938015]

>>7938006
You seem upset. Would you like to talk to someone who cares?

[Anonymous No.7938042]

>>7938006
The "baseless" part was you assuming someone must be a loser who shitposts on /pol/ or /r9k/ if he holds a less than stellar view of women. Signaling is all you're capable of and it's always what people like you resort in conversations like this. Tired and boring.

[Anonymous No.7938095]

>>7938042

>signalling

>you either need to get out of the basement more or you're just willfully ignorant. Or you're a woman.

Plenty of signalling to go around, let's not pretend it's limited to one side of this debate. The rest of the post was made up of actual points (like: 'how about you examine your own life instead of blaming everything on women; how about you also blame men for how they act, rather than just women for how they respond to them') but obviously you'd rather ignore all that in favour of the one sentence that was a glib dismissal so you can claim the moral highground for the bitches and whores circlejerk crew.