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/lit/ - Literature

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7926235 No.7926235 [Reply] [Original]

Hi everyone,
I'd like to know your opinion : do you think it's possible for a non-native english writer to be good enough to write a novel in english?
I'm french, I published a few short stories here and there and I can't help but feel that it's a waste to publish in french... I write science-fiction and we're overwhelmed with translated best sellers... It's so hard to be recognised in french (even french people tend to think US writers are better).
I read and listen (audible) a lot of novels in english, I'm not particularly good in that language, but I think I can be better with a little practice.
So, what's the verdict, do you think it's too much of a handicap to be overcome?

>> No.7926301

Your English skills are terrible and I'm pretty sure it goes the same with French. I doubt you can publish anything consistent in either. Honestly, you sound like you're a teenager.

>> No.7926347

>>7926301
Of course, you can say that by reading an half-assed, 5 lines text. Either you're a troll or a teenager yourself. God, why is it so difficult to have an interesting conversation online?
Talking with bright, positive-minded people is probably too much to ask for...

>> No.7926359

If Nabokov did it, you can do it too.

>> No.7926374

Vladamir Nabokov managed so you have no excuse.

Try getting work translating books.

>> No.7926394

>>7926347
You don't use a space prior a colon in English, it's typically a French feature. That's something you naturally fix as soon as you read a decent amount of English material. You repeatedly missed the capital letter on “French” and “English” although it can as well indicate a lack of industry to the language itself, which is equally wrong. “To be recognised (sic)”, the lack of “to” next to “listen” and the overall length strongly suggest you don't write that much in English. If I were still wondering, “what's the verdict” definitely closed the case. Judgments like “French people tend to think US writers are better” are pretty juvenile, too.

I'm sure you won't be able to publish anything decent in English. Vladimir Nabokov was already fluent as a child, it's barely a second mother tongue, not mentioning his bright, upper-class education. Anyway, please provide us with your prose. If you have the feeling it's hard to be acknowledge as a writer, it may be because of your skills, not the language you write in.

>> No.7926437

>>7926235
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannu_Rajaniemi
It's possible for sure. I've read The Quantum Thief and did enjoy it. Very high scifi, like sharing memories by a device on your wrist, star traveling and such. He even uses some Finnish words for names like Perhonen which means butterly, and Mieli which means mind.

>> No.7926438

>>7926394
I only wrote scientific papers during my PhD, not the best training in proper English I agree.
Yes, I find it difficult to be recognised (I think this spelling is ok, UK?), but I started sending short stories a year ago and got published twice, not so bad I guess.
I wrote that I'm not really good in english right now, it's no point underlying it. I think that, even if I'm a bit old to improve -- I'm a 31 years old "teenager" -- I still have time to enhance my English skills.
Anyway, thanks for you advices, that's helpful. On the other hand, the bitter, judgmental, know-it-all comments that came with it was superfluous.

>> No.7926458

>>7926235
It can be done, and it's been done. But can you do it? And will you?
Developing your language skills to literary fluency will take years, and you're already publishing in French. I think you'll find it more rewarding, for now, to write in your own language, and work on your English on the side if at all.

>> No.7926466

>do you think it's possible for a non-native english writer to be good enough to write a novel in english?

Does the name Joseph Conrad ring any bells to you?

>> No.7926472

>>7926438
I don't think you have any time left. When I spoke about “to be recognised” I referred to the significantly less frequent occurence the associate meaning “to be acknowledge, get a strong esteem” has in English than in French. Your poor skills are absolutely relevant, and I'm still convinced you can't success because you do sound like you wrote in French then went on Google Translate and fixed the grammatical incoherences. It has a weird, unnatural flow. The fact you were mistaken for a teenager should be a huge incentive, assuming you're honest. If you're here to blindly be cheered up and get free acclamations, I'm no help. However if you wish to improve, post an extract of your prose, and don't complain about the others being “judgmental”. It's a stupid, shallow word.

>> No.7926487

>>7926458
Yes, I'm a bit old to invest a lot of time to improve my English skills...
Well, maybe one day I'll be good enough (and lucky enough) to land a contract with a big publisher and they will translate my stories in english.

>> No.7926507

>>7926472
Well, that's just a thought I was playing with for a few weeks, I don't have anything written in English for now. I just wanted to explore the possibilities with othe people.
I just don't get why you are so aggresive, and why you think you have the right to judge what I write in French, even though you only red 5 lines I wrote in another language on 4chan... That's harsh and uncalled for.

>> No.7926521

>>7926466
Nabokov, Conrad... I'm starting to think you have to be Russian to pull that off ^^

>> No.7926535

>>7926487
As a foreign language major I think there's a lot to be said about not attempting to write (fiction) in a foreign language at all, but rather to write it in your mother tongue and have it translated. (you can always try to supervise the translation if you think you have sufficient mastery over the second language, but still not attempt to do the slave work yourself)
However "fluent" or whatever meme thing you'd become in English, you would still basically be attempting to do two tasks at the same time: 1) write a story (plot, characters) 2) translate your thoughts to English before they ever land on the page.

I believe this has a lot to do with how your own emotional intelligence develops together with the development of your first language. You use language to express emotions, and you use emotions to produce language (and you use emotions to do it to a far bigger extent as a kid), and it all just develops together simultaneously for years and years to the point when you're grown up and you're you're not even clear where one ends and the other begins.

Ever heard how immigrants, when they move to a different country, slowly become more and more comfortable with speaking the target language, and start using it even within their own home with their family, yet they revert to their mother tongue exactly in times of heightened emotionality (such as when they get pissed off during family fights)? Fiction is kinda the same way, in my personal philosophy.

(although Beckett had similar thoughts which could be easily interpreted as to fit in with what I'm saying)

>> No.7926536

>>7926507
I'm not aggressive, that's your perception, I'm delivering what you asked for, an honest opinion. I was asking for an extract in French, of course. I have the feeling your prose still is problematic in your native language. I don't need the authorization to judge whatever I want, which is by the way why we're here, and I find curious you consider being on 4chan is an additional reason any point of view on your writing—I've seen way more than five lines, now—is irrelevant. You seem obsessed people might judge you despite that's exactly what you want.

>> No.7926584

>>7926535
Really interesting!
I'm not an immigrant, but I watch almost everything in English, I read in English and I listen to audiobooks or podcasts in English... I feel it infected my native language. I often stop in the middle of a sentence because the idea I want to express comes in English.
Of course, as you see, my English skills are not so good and I feel I'm stuck in a middle ground where my French skills are declining and my English skills are not good enough...
It's clear English wiil one day be the only spoken language, and I feel that everything that is not translated in english will be forgotten...
Maybe I should stop reading in English and focusing on French?

>> No.7926640

>>7926584
Lots of indians are properly bilingual and they switch between languages midsentence, and some europeans do it (but to a much lesser extent), there are plenty of bilingual writers as well (Nabokov springs to mind). I'm sure you can manage both really, unless you're a very slow reader. Probably if you're intentionally trying to forge language skills worthy of writerhood you're thinking in the wrong way.

>> No.7926715

>>7926359
nabokov learned english from a very young age - not sure i'm remembering this correctly but i read that when he was a young boy his father was actually dismayed that his writing in english was much better than his russian

>> No.7926754

>>7926584
Sadly I don't have the answer. If there even is only one right answer.
Though if you're any serious and healthily-delusional about becoming a writer, I don't see why you should obsess about whether you'll get translated. And in English of all languages. Worst case scenario, you hire a translator yourself.

I'm in the same shoes as you, bilingualism wise. I know ZERO things about my home culture, and also my national literature. (French isn't my first language though.) Therefore I can only hope that there's hope for us, and wish you luck.

I am currently trying to read literature in my own language and see where it takes me. I expect it will help even if I change my mind and go back to writing in English (although I probably won't for the reasons i mentioned in the above post), just because of those subconcious emotional connections which I'm hypothesizing exist, which I'm probably not even experiencing when reading literature in a foreign language.


>>7926640
Indians as in people from India? I could make some points as to why it's bad, if so. (not Indian though, just from an amateur applied linguist standpoint)

>> No.7926803

>>7926521
Conrad was Polish, my dear.

>> No.7926823

>>7926803
>>7926521
Wait a second. Was that a bait? If so, well done.

>> No.7926907

>>7926640
I'll assume that you did mean people from India, cuz I want to dump my post really bad before I go to bed.

I could argue that Indians, even in their home country in general (but a much more lively similar example of the same phenomena are Middle Easterners e.g. Pakis in the UK), at times seem to be such sociopaths to the point of even being a hazard to society exactly because of the inferiority complex that they associate with their first language, and in turn the entirety of their personal emotional life. (sorry for /pol/-style generalizations, to all the warm and cuddly Pakis)

Have you ever listened to some of the Indian actors/actresses giving an interview to English media?
Also note the titles of the videos that were uploaded by indians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBxOzhDniiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIa2Th5dZpo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkyhFJ6QADU

There seems to be an obvious inferiority complex. But why? Because they were a colony? Doesn't really compute, there were other peoples who were colonized yet remain very proud about their national identity in a much healthier way that's not demeaning to other cultural identities.

This is not a problem of their inherent mentality, nor do I think it's a problem of their social inferiority complex.

it's a problem of an emotional inferiority complex. Of them having their mother tongue downplayed by their own culture. If I understand correctly, at least de jure, to many of them English is the FOURTH language. Four fucking languages. You learn a shitty indian village language, a little less shitty village official language, Hindi - the nationwide official language (who noone outside india gives two fucks about, AND ONLY THEN do you get to deal with English (the world's lingua franca tbqh f a m)
Everything in their surroundings is communicating to them that the more they separate from their first language, and therefore their emotional life, the more successful people they will be in society.

>> No.7928514

Ayn Rand desu yo

>> No.7928518

>>7926235
Nabokov?
>>7926301
I doubt his french is similar, he has a very french syntax.

>> No.7929307

>>7926235
Penses-tu que je pourrait écrire des romans en français? J'apprends la langue maintenant, mais je sens que mon écriture est plutôt bon. Est-ce que tu es d'accord?

>> No.7929351

>>7926394
>this fucking guy

>> No.7929493

This is borderline an int
Thread. What defines culture what defines language what defines understanding of a reality you surrounded in.
How long have you lived in the country of language you wish to narrate in.what nuances /bridges have you discovered. If your own country rejects your annociation., why try it in another?