/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7905963]

There seems to be such a strong pushback to modern liberalism that some young people are reverting to conservatism , being borderline racist and misogynistic just because of their hatred for social justice and political correctness.

is this real or am I just seeing something that isn't there?

[Anonymous No.7905968]

>>7905963

its just a bunch of edgy bitchy kids in a generation that's mediocre and a system that doesn't work anymore.

[Anonymous No.7905983]

>>7905968
This. And don't assume online shitposting to be representitive of anything.

Now that the off topic shit is out of the way is there a novel you'd like to discuss?

[Anonymous No.7905995]

>>7905983
keep in mind that not everyone's got a dildo stuck through their brains like you do. We got many new-gen reactionaries ready to take up the fight against cultural marxism.

[Anonymous No.7906000]

>>7905968
They rebel against centrist liberalism by going right, when they should be approaching the left to find the answers they seek.

[Anonymous No.7906015]

>>7905963

We're so powerless that it really doesn't matter what we think about anything.

[Anonymous No.7906030]

>>7906000
topkek

[Anonymous No.7906063]

>>7905963
action reaction.

don't tell me the pushback against social progressivism is entirely unjustified.

[Anonymous No.7906067]

>>7906000
>'''''''''''''''''''''trips of truth''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[Anonymous No.7906100]

This "left vs right" dichotomy needs to die.
Politics shouldn't be so rigid and limiting to those who govern and those who are governed, the right tools should be applied depending on how best to approach the situation rather than according to some dogmatic adherence to one boneheaded ideology in favor of another.
Playground banalities, this "us vs them" way of thinking should be left to the willful retardation side effect of spectator sports, not politics.

[Anonymous No.7906101]

GAS THE WHITES
RACE WAR NOW

[Anonymous No.7906109]

>>7906100

left right dichotomy is ideological, not exclusively with a political focus

[Anonymous No.7906117]

>>7906063

>resources on earth are depleting and/or are owned by a small minority compared to the rest of the population

>people shrug it off like it's nothing

>people get upset over "sjw's", a term which practically has no meaning now and will probably not affect mainstream culture in 10 years.

[Anonymous No.7906119]

>>7906109
And ideology is dead, yet people limiting themselves to Elephants vs Donkeys hold tight to their death shrouds in pointless mourning, refusing to let go.

[Anonymous No.7906123]

>modern liberalism

[Anonymous No.7906129]

>(modern liberalism)

[Anonymous No.7906133]

>>7906129
>>7906123
>>7906101
How things change...

[Anonymous No.7906135]

>((modern liberalism))

[Anonymous No.7906141]

>>7906119
whoever said ideology is dead

the pendulum will swing my friend

[Anonymous No.7906143]

>(((modern liberalism)))

[Anonymous No.7906145]

>>7906117

Do you think that having these dwindling resources shared equally among 8 billion people is the best idea? Because that's what's going to end up happening if everyone stops bickering and decides to be friends.

All that's going to accomplish is having the water/oil/metal deplete even faster. Then nobody will have anything, and the ensuing chaos will be like a raging wildfire rather than a controlled burn.

You should be kissing the feet of whoever put those three letters together. It's going to end up saving Western Civilization.

[Anonymous No.7906146]

>>7906141
Yeah, lets backtrack instead of going forward.
A new dark age would be so comfortable, full of the old ghosts instead of new ones.

>>7906135
>>7906129
>>7906123
Idk, liberals tend to have better art.

[Anonymous No.7906147]

>>7905963
Weird fat deviants who don't wash and have no social skills are now jumping on the left-liberal bandwagon to make friends and the same stench that stopped them making friends in the first place is driving people out of liberalism.

[Anonymous No.7906149]

>>7906100
>>7906119
Donkey/Elephant system only exists because the public is literally too stupid to think deeper than face value symbols

[Anonymous No.7906150]

>>7906147
Well, at least they're seeking friends.
What are you doing with your life?

[Anonymous No.7906152]

>>7906146
>Idk, liberals tend to have better art.
We're talking about pre-postmodern right? Not fucking political cartoons? If so, then you're somehow conflating savants with liberals.

[Anonymous No.7906154]

>/lit/-Literature

I enjoy /pol/ from time to time but keep political threads there.

[Anonymous No.7906157]

>>7906152
and not*

[Anonymous No.7906159]

>>7906146
>Idk, liberals tend to have better art.
Liberal "art" is shit. It lacks spirit.

[Anonymous No.7906161]

>>7906154
fuck off

[Anonymous No.7906167]

>>7906149
Which also speaks to the failure and the nearsightedness of those who govern (and those who bankroll them) to actively promote and maintain that status quo.
Anti-intellectualism goes both ways.

[Anonymous No.7906169]

>>7906167
I must agree.

[Anonymous No.7906188]

>>7906167
>>7906169

Why do you think it's a good idea that common people- characterized by selfishness, softness, naivety and ignorance- be involved in politics?

[Anonymous No.7906193]

>>7906188
I'm more in favor of an educated populace. If people are smarter then we outgrow any need for such hideously simplistic systems, and also a greater depth of understanding n where to carry our species.

[Anonymous No.7906196]

>>7906146
such is the way of all things

and liberals do NOT tend to have better art

[Anonymous No.7906199]

>>7906193
>crypto eugenicist

[Anonymous No.7906207]

>>7906146
>social progressivism
>"going forward"

[Anonymous No.7906209]

>>7906188
Why do you think it's a good idea to keep putting selfish, soft, naive and ignorant people in power to maintain the status quo that enables the selfishness, softness, naivety and ignorance in the common populace?
Because it's the way things are? Because it's the way things have been?

[Anonymous No.7906212]

>>7906199
why the fuck not

[Anonymous No.7906218]

That plus the fact that it's cool to rail against trends, ie to move toward conservatism because it feels like every single other person your age is a 'liberal'.

[Anonymous No.7906228]

>>7906152
We're talking pre-postmodern, political cartoons and post-modern at least half of the time. Not to say that conservatives don't have good art, I just seldom see it posted since most of you lot seem to favor childish scribbles and supposed liberal cherry pickings. If you want to build a case for your ideology, I suggest you focus on advertising its positive aspects instead.

>>7906159
And conservative art tends to lack "skill". That said, both are lacking in recent years.

>>7906207
Well, it certainly isn't going backwards, despite how you and I might feel about the results.

[Anonymous No.7906237]

>>7906228
>your ideology
What's my ideology?

>"conservative" art
>"liberal" art
I thought we were talking about art done by liberals. What the fuck is so-called "liberal" art?

[Anonymous No.7906242]

>>7906212
as long as you're okay with its consequences

[Anonymous No.7906243]

>>7906218
So we both agree that liberalism was also a counter-culture movement.

[Anonymous No.7906246]

>>7906237
He's obviously referring to the satirical smear cartoons like the one you attached to your shitty response that either contrarian political group use to slander the obvious, but of course you, as a saviour of Evropa and a fox amongst the sheeple, is too enlightened to infer that blatantly obvious implication

[Anonymous No.7906251]

>>7906209

We don't have the power to put anyone in charge. The whole thing is sewn up, and has been since JFK. JFK was an idiot that didn't appreciate the tremendous weight resting on America's shoulders. He wanted world peace, which is a suicidal position for a hyper-power to adopt. Yeah, no shit #2 and #3 threats want to be friends. No shit they want us to share, and relax, and become boy scouts.

Thank God JFK was taken out of power. A shame how it was done, but there probably wasn't any other way.

[Anonymous No.7906252]

>>7906228
define "forward" and "backward" because your comment is loaded with assumptions

[Anonymous No.7906257]

>>7906246
>>7906146
>>7906146
>>7906146
>>7906146

[Anonymous No.7906266]

>>7906246
>"He's obviously referring to the satirical smear cartoons"
>something put together for a few laughs is "art"

>"but of course you, as a saviour of Evropa and a fox amongst the sheeple, is too enlightened to infer that blatantly obvious implication"
Nice strawperson you're constructing, though.

[Anonymous No.7906270]

>>7906252
>Forward
Change, good or bad

>Backward
Whatever past ideology you seem nostalgic about/comfortable with, rose tinted glasses and all.

[Anonymous No.7906271]

>>7906270
>Change, good or bad
heh

[Anonymous No.7906275]

>>7906266
I never argued that it 'was' art, but it's obvious that
he was using it to describe the 'something put together for a few laughs'. I've no idea how you couldn't infer that unless you weren't as stupid as the archetypal strawman

[Anonymous No.7906278]

>>7906266
You're right, maybe we're reading into you wrong.
Maybe you identify with that Jew persona.

[Anonymous No.7906285]

>>7905963
If there is I don't think it translates into a "conservative" political identity among the increasingly off-put and alienated. Politically it manifests as a spirit of indifference and disengagement from liberal-democratic ideology and the standard forms of political and social action/activism.

A person may become increasingly flip online or far less willing to vocally and materially support classic liberal causes/plights, but that doesn't mean there is in fundamental shift internally towards social conservatism.

[Anonymous No.7906286]

>>7906278
There are some based jews, family. I love jews. I know the best jews.

https://youtu.be/jy65sJhjYCU

[Anonymous No.7906287]

>>7906270
then the push"back" is progressivism.

[Anonymous No.7906289]

>>7905963
Not that surprising. After the 70s there was a similar cultural push back which became the current evangelical Christianity as well as the Reagan revolution. The same faults of leftism that caused those two phenomenon, how insufferable they are and their unhealthy communities, are alive and well in the modern incarnation.

[Anonymous No.7906291]

>>7906228
>And conservative art tends to lack "skill". That said, both are lacking in recent years.
What is skillless about the cinema of Terrence Malick, John Ford, Harmony Korine, or Andrei Tarkovsky, or the literature of Updike, Housman, and Waugh?

[Anonymous No.7906292]

>>7906291
because.. b-because WHITE MALE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.7906295]

>>7906289
the pendulum

[Anonymous No.7906302]

>>7906291
All artists that haven't been working in recent years, except Malick of course, the odd man out.
Korine a shit

[Anonymous No.7906305]

>>7906146
>>7906228
>forward
>backward
holy heck

[Anonymous No.7906314]

>>7906291
>Korine
>conservative

no

[Anonymous No.7906321]

>>7906314
You must have missed the interview where he said his parents disowned him because he had real values and refused to make Marxist propaganda.

Korine is a poet of real life and a true blue conservative through and through.

[Anonymous No.7906325]

>>7906295
I'm not sure if I'd go that far. There's nothing inherent in leftism that makes those flaws inevitable. I think it's because the culture of universities is a breeding ground for left-wing thinking which naturally results in these movements being essentially being represented by college students. Who are going to be insufferable and form toxic communities no matter what they do.

[Anonymous No.7906327]

>>7906314
just because he makes films that ostensibly centre around degeneracy doesn't mean he isn't a conservative

[Anonymous No.7906330]

>>7906325
is it not an inherent flaw of leftism if it keeps yielding, like you say, insufferable and toxic communities.

[Anonymous No.7906331]

Pendulum is swinging back. People are simply starting to see through the lies of modern western world.

It's not just the chans and internet. Everyone i know are either angry, disillusioned or scared. They sense something is wrong with how the things are going.

You would have to stick your head pretty deep into sand to think everything is perfect and that we're in some kind of age of progress with sunshines and rainbows.
>>7906289
What happened in the 70s and 80s is hippy '68 generation growing up and realizing their naive idealism didn't do jack shit. So all those students who were on the barricades now graduated their colleges and assumed positions in public institutions as lawmakers, journalists and politicians. They're still here, running our system, although they're slowly fading away. They are the most responsible for the breakthrough of New Left and cultural marxism in society, as they were indoctrinated in those ideas during their college days.

Conservative phase with Reaganism and Thatcherism during the 80s was only that, a phase, which has attempted to fix problems caused by the '73 oil crisis in a non-Keynesian way, which proved itself useless at that point. Then the 90s arrived and Clintons took over.

[Anonymous No.7906336]

>>7906325
>>7906330

Not him, but what he means is, anything that college/University students do turns into insufferable and toxic garbage.

You really think that the Young Tories or Young Republicans or whoever are any better? They're all a pack of insufferable pricks, I claim.

[Anonymous No.7906342]

>>7906336
>You really think that the Young Tories or Young Republicans or whoever are any better?
100% yes

[Anonymous No.7906345]

>>7906252
This is not on topic or anything regarding literature, but how the flying fuck did painters paint like this? Aren't the hairs of paint brushes thicker and more diffuse than is possible to produce works of detail and realism such as this?

[Anonymous No.7906353]

>>7906345
they got gud

[Anonymous No.7906357]

>>7906336
That's not what he said, but I'll address the point.

I would agree that YTs and YRs don't make for fantastic company but I think they're not as insufferable as left wing students.

What I see as inherent flaw in leftism is that it by nature tends to refuse or ignore inconvenient realities that undermine their positions -- especially since they believe their position to be the one and only universal truth to some higher utopia.

[Anonymous No.7906361]

>>7906345
by the grace of God, our Heavenly Father of course

[Anonymous No.7906363]

>>7905995
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.7906366]

>>7906123
I'd fuck him

[Anonymous No.7906369]

>>7906143
>>7906135
>>7906129
>>7906133
>>7906123
>>>/pol/

not seeing any literature guys

[Anonymous No.7906371]

>>7906366
i know you would

>>7906369
not an argument

[Anonymous No.7906373]

>>7906146
>forward
>backward
nice metanarrative you fool

[Anonymous No.7906374]

>>7906363
>>7906369

Is there any literature that deals with making peace with an increasingly liberal world as a conservative without renouncing your beliefs?

also, why is it that right wing opinions get directed to /pol/ but left wing opinions have a place here?

[Anonymous No.7906376]

>>7906228
>conservative art
>liberal art

>liberal art

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY

[Anonymous No.7906377]

>>7905963
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf4gHpK4HSM

Its a pushback against people attempting to redefine values in a way that makes the new ones wholly at odds with our current understanding of them.

[Anonymous No.7906380]

>>7906292
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.7906381]

>>7906321
>refused to make Marxist propaganda.
>""conservative""
These labels simply can't be put onto most people outside of America in the 21st century, pal.

[Anonymous No.7906384]

>>7906345
I thought about art and religion.

I mean I guess it's not impossible for secular artists to create art that's as technically brilliant as religious art but is there a connection with aesthetic brilliance and religious piety? Maybe

[Anonymous No.7906386]

>>7905963

The left/right paradigm has become outdated, what we have now is basically globalism vs nationalism

[Anonymous No.7906389]

>>7906374
If you look closely, that's not the metric by which I chose posts.

Also I have no idea, but I'd like to know myself.

[Anonymous No.7906390]

>>7906376
well we have the two world wars to thank for this unholy garbage.

also, look at all those sheepish eyes. Does it not scream Emperor's new clothes?

[Anonymous No.7906394]

>>7906389
fair enough.

As a recent "convert" to conservatism and Christianity I wish there was more literature that deals with the existential pain of a conservative in a liberal world. Or should I just read Camus and Kierkegaard

[Anonymous No.7906396]

>>7906386
This is correct, however people will always associate left with globalism and right with nationalism.

[Anonymous No.7906399]

>>7906394
try reading a book on growing up

[Anonymous No.7906401]

>>7906396
it may be because nationalism sounds vaguely racist and as we all know we can't have anything that sounds remotely racist

[Anonymous No.7906403]

>>7906399
will do, thanks

[Anonymous No.7906405]

>>7906401
>it may be because nationalism sounds vaguely racist
It doesn't though. That is a pretty wild assumption.

[Anonymous No.7906409]

>>7905963
This desu senpai. And the best part is they're the most successful people I know.

[Anonymous No.7906415]

>>7906143

[Anonymous No.7906417]

Also I'm pretty sure the only person who has referenced an author besides Marx is >>7906394, and I don't think the above Pepe counts.

Had to make sure I wasn't on /pol/

[Anonymous No.7906421]

>>7906405
to the left wing it does, I should have said.

[Anonymous No.7906424]

>>7906417
Why do you think conservative positions have become unfashionable in both academia and larger society?

I hardly ever see conservative literature that isn't some inane ramblings of a southern baptist

also I'll be really sad when Dalrymple bites the dust

[Anonymous No.7906427]

>>7906331
I had typed up a long response to you but my phones just deleted it. So It may be missing some stuff
Here's the short of it the flaws with leftism are essentially it's unpallatabilty to the masses this is specifically because of Cold War propaganda plus the spoils from winning ww2 allowed almost all the flaws of capitalism to be losses over with money. Conservatism in both it's Reaganite and pre-reaganite forms has been dominant, the Reaganite ones especially who elected Reagan himself, the bushes with only bill Clinton peeling off some of those votes, but only because he ran pretty conservatively. The current rise of leftism after this almost half centurary of banishment is because of three events( end of Cold War, Great Recession, and 9/11) which broke the back of Reagan Coalition. Only after these things that leftism regained it's fangs and become a political force, note there was an uptick in leftist influence after each of these events.

Also pretty much all college kids are deeply unlikqble to general public. We're all pretty privileged compared to society as a whole. We're younger so any moral or political opinion is going to seem smarmy and moralising to anybody older then us who disagree's. We also don't vote so we're off course going to fail.

[Anonymous No.7906429]

>>7905963
Modern Liberal extremism which pushes the limiting of free speech and slanders groups of people as "racist" "misogynistic" and "ignorant" is the "modern liberalism" you mention. If it were merely a push for real liberal ideas, people would not strongly oppose it. Since it is a push for limiting free speech("You can't call me fat on the internet!"), asserting that a gender should receive special treatment(The misconception of the wage gap), and the push that race is still a primary factor for success("Muh White Oppressors!") it receives a strong negative association so people are switching over to other political views to avoid association with these radicals. "Social Justice" is a joke and it shouldn't be upon the "modern liberal" to push justice where a body for justice already exists and can be appealed to. Political correctness is a subjective term and what is and isn't politically correct should not be enforced to people in their private lives where they are allowed to exercise their first amendment right to free speech and press. These people you mention your post are commonly found on the internet and are known as reactionaries. If their existence offends you, they have won.

[Anonymous No.7906432]

>>7906415
>>7906415

[Anonymous No.7906433]

>>7906427
I think its also necessary to point out the severe contradiction and intollerance of the modern left which also make it unpalatable beyond those issues.

The rejection of individualism in their analysis is a pretty big factor

[Anonymous No.7906434]

>>7906432
OH SHIT

[Anonymous No.7906437]

>>7905963
a claim to ineffable moral absolutism plus the perpetual indignation the cause of which is never made quite clear

a new tyranny imposed on the "other". How progressives don't see the irony of this is baffling

[Anonymous No.7906443]

>>7906433
No doubt. But I believe that those are a result of the loss of the more salt of the earth strains of leftism, rural and blue collar.
I'd like to keep discussing this but I've got to head to work.

[Anonymous No.7906444]

>>7906432

[Anonymous No.7906449]

>>7906444
>>7906432
>>7906415
Why are leftypol memes so cringeworthy jesus christ

thank god i left that shithole for good

[Anonymous No.7906452]

>>7906381
Have you ever seen Korine's movies? His masterwork Gummo is a rare, honest portrayal of the working class that refuses to accuse them of false consciousness or manipulate their plight for political gain (unlike eg Kes by the repugnant communist cunt Ken Loach). His recent revelation, Spring Breakers, subverts ironic mockery of evangelical Christianity by setting it up as a punchline with prayer leader "Double J" Jeff Jarrett, but then finding sincere hope in it when Selena Gomez leaves spring break - which is rapidly becoming a truly terrifying, demonic Hell-on-Earth - and looks out of the window of a speeding bus to see the face of God on a divine horizon.

Korine is disgusted by the excess of the modern world and he is a true conservative finding God's face among the ruins.

[Anonymous No.7906453]

>>7906444
>Those damn capitalists and corporations and their pro-White ideology.

Wew lad!

[Anonymous No.7906456]

>>7906449
almost entirely sure two of those were made by /pol/

[Anonymous No.7906457]

modern lol

[Anonymous No.7906458]

>>7906453
he's a bigot, don't bother

[Anonymous No.7906460]

>>7906424
They are unfashionable in academia because conservative principles are always based on epistemological skepticism which promotes an acquiesence to the cultural norms of a society that has organically developed over hundreds of years. This is unacceptable to those in the academy whose frame of mind is directed primarily towards insipid notions of "problem solving" or finding a magic bullet for comprehensive understanding.

From the academy flow those who run the media, and from the media flow the unwashed masses who cannot question - or even identify - the rotten and intellectually disreputable rationalistic premises of the politics they are being subliminally fed.

[Anonymous No.7906461]

>>7906449

Memes are cringeworthy by default, bourg.

[Anonymous No.7906474]

>>7906146
>Idk, liberals tend to have better art.

https://twitter.com/GarethSoye/status/718916804060585984

[Anonymous No.7906486]

>>7906146
>going forward
IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR!

[Anonymous No.7906488]

>>7906452
Lol. Korine isn't the least bit conservative.

[Anonymous No.7906490]

>>7906488
Evidence vs constant naked assertion. You bore me, leftoid.

[Anonymous No.7906496]

>>7905963
>is this real or am I just seeing something that isn't there?
No, it's there. You just don't seem to be recognizing that there is something wrong with the left.

[Anonymous No.7906501]

simple dialectic