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/lit/ - Literature

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761220 No.761220 [Reply] [Original]

somebody read another view of stalin ?

>> No.761252

>>761220
No. Why anybody should get bothered by some shitty red propaganda about this faggot?

>> No.761405

http://monkeysmashesheaven.wordpress.com/

would be a good place to start looking

>> No.761506

>>761252
most propaganda comes from the west ? you think you all hate him because you are verry smart ?

>> No.761513

>>761506
Are you seriously suggesting that Cold War Russia had less propaganda?

>> No.761525

>>761513
The fact that they had propaganda does not make our propaganda correct.

>> No.761528

>>761513

At least they aren't producing it any more.

And it's pretty pointless to compare. The USSR had much more blatant propaganda but the US had a very strong and subtle anti-communist propoganda run that I imagine is still funded relatively well.

>> No.761533

>>761525
Sounds like something a Pinko Commie spy would say. Or should I just call you comrade?

>> No.761564

I'm from Russia, and I just want to say that all the Western trotskysts, Mao or Stalin-lovers, etc. are naive dumb fucks. Those people were tyrants in they poor and constantly pillaged countries, and communism or socialism was nothing more than a religion for the ignorant manipulated masses.

>> No.761571
File: 45 KB, 624x470, odo7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
761571

Quark's been angry ever since Joseph Stalin died.

>> No.761573

>>761564
Trotsky was anti-stalin.

>> No.761579

>>761564
When I went to Russia a few years back everyone there seemed to still like Lenin, is this true?

>> No.761585

>>761573
So what? When he has power after the revolution and in the 20-s he was just a mad butcher.

>> No.761590

>>761513
positive propaganda to encourage people to work good, have alot of children. russia had more
but propaganda to denigrate the other state and it's people, west was at top...

please realize that the west didn't hate communism that much because of their will to bring freedom to the world. But because the ruling class (bourgois) was afraid to lose it's power and wealth. The state is merely a tool of the ruling class

>> No.761593

>>761564
Do you think that today's Russia tends to go back in the good ol' USSR days?

>> No.761597

>>761579
No. Lenin's monument is countless so no one is bothered to destroy them. On the other hand, after Stalin's death in 1953 all his monuments was destoyed.
Also nowadays (last 10 years) Stalin became popular again.

>> No.761598

>>761585

I've always thought that a Russia under Trotsky would've been even worse than it was under Stalin.

Stalin had people killed mostly because he was paranoid. Trotsky just liked being, as you say, a butcher.

>> No.761602

>>761598
>Stalin had people killed mostly because he was paranoid.
Mostly 'cause he want power and nothing else.

>> No.761608

>>761564
you're a retard if they pilleged the countries where the fuck the money went to ? Stalin earned about 40 $ a month

>> No.761614

>>761608

They pillaged farms, not palaces.

>> No.761626

>>761614
so where the fuck did the loot go ? EXACTLY
from each according to his ability to each according to his need
those raided farms where nothing more the the old feudal landowner who had alot of animals and land and been exploiting evrybody for centuries

>> No.761632

>>761608
>you're a retard if they pilleged the countries where the fuck the money went to ? Stalin earned about 40 $ a month
Not only they. Those countries was permanently in war, civil war, purges, collectivisation etc. so they dictators could save they absolute power. This is the way of any totalitarian regime - constant crisis.
Also Stalin was has full political/economical/military power in USSR in his hands. It's far more than 40 bucks.

>> No.761633

Only every Soviet magazine, newspaper and politically related book ever published. I have a bunch and it's hilarious reading.

>> No.761641

>>761626
>those raided farms where nothing more the the old feudal landowner who had alot of animals and land and been exploiting evrybody for centuries
You're talking about 20s and 30-s? Go read some history textbook. You don't know anythig about shitty USSR history.

>> No.761673

>>761632
all these crisis are more the fault of the imperial world.... how do you explain the intervention of the 'free' imperial forces during the civil war ?

also Stalin was not invested by law with any authority over his fellow-citizens. He had not even the extensive power which... the American Constitution entrusts for four years to every successive president.... Stalin is not, and never has been. the President of the USSR. He was not even a People's Commissar, or member of the Cabinet. He was the General Secretary of the Party....
According you Stalin was some dictator who gained power to gain more power and then to gain even more power to gain some more power.... but what was his personal interest in that ?

>>761641
maybe it's because you only read shitty textbooks that you don't know anything

>> No.761682

>>761626

The Harvest of Sorrow, motherfucker, do you know anything about it?

Rhetorical question; you obviously don't.

>> No.761710

I wouldn't recommend it, unscientific garbage from the left is still garbage.

I recommend "Stalin: Revolutionary in an Era of War" by Kevin McDermott

>> No.761716

>>761673
>all these crisis are more the fault of the imperial world....
Bullshit. For example, during the starving in the early 20s US does send to USSR huge humanitaria help.
>how do you explain the intervention of the 'free' imperial forces during the civil war ?
It was help to the White forces as they allies in Antanta.
>According you Stalin was some dictator who gained power to gain more power and then to gain even more power to gain some more power.... but what was his personal interest in that ?
To gain even more power.
He was from a poor family, short, weak man, not Russian in Russia, bad skin, has some criminal record, bad education (religious school for the future priests), he speaked Russian with accent, he wasn't an orator(contrary to Lenin and Trotsky). So he wanted the power.
>maybe it's because you only read shitty textbooks that you don't know anything
You wrote some ignorant bullshit, that's all.

>> No.761717

What is /lit/'s opinion on the Montefiore biographies? (Court of the Red Tsar, Young Stalin)

>> No.761726

>>761716
>Antanta
I meant Triple Entente.

>> No.761734

>>761682
I've red the critisism on it -_-
http://eh.net/pipermail/eh.net-review/2004-November/000085.html

make your opinion on multiple sources instead of relying on mainstream crap ;

also read this about the holodomor in the usa
http://rt.com/prime-time/2008-10-15/Where_did_Americas_missing_millions_go_Holodomor_Lessons_.html

>> No.761753
File: 198 KB, 600x914, 9780224078795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
761753

The Rise and Fall of Communism

>> No.761775

>>761717
they are all right.

is being criticized for the somewhat popular approach. but that could just be historians envy.
In any case, if you just want to read up on him, they are all right.
If you want more profound knowledge you wont get around reading several biographies and some general works on soviet/revolutionary/civil war/stalinist russia...

>> No.761777

The Autobiography of Joseph Stalin is a pretty good read.

>> No.761811

>Bullshit. For example, during the starving in the early 20s US does send to USSR huge humanitaria help

source

>It was help to the White forces as they allies in Antanta
not only them but all the countries that had a powerfull bourgois helped you shouldn't see it as a problem of nations. it was people of the soviet union vs the international bourgois and own bourgois using their states as tools. Obviously the people that fought for them selves won.

>To gain even more power.
He was from a poor family, short, weak man, not Russian in Russia, bad skin, has some criminal record, bad education (religious school for the future priests), he speaked Russian with accent, he wasn't an orator(contrary to Lenin and Trotsky). So he wanted the power

wow that's just really.... what have all those traits to do with him as a leader ? Nothing ! about he was not a russian in russia ; you obviously don't know about the relationships between diffrent people ; nationalities never mattered in the soviet union

wanting more and more power is an invalid argument because power is just a tool to get yourself more money and a better living.
it's pretty weird that even if we assume the horrible dictator stalin had absolute power , he used it in a much greater and fairer way then any politician in our modern democrasys use it. Staling lived in a house with 3 living rooms, slept on his sofa and worked day and night for the better of the people for the maximum pay chek that was allowed for a party member (about 40 $).

>> No.763455

>>761811

France, the Brits and the Americans tried their darnedest to help the White Army crush the communists, under Woodrow America sent thousands of troops to aide the reactionary tsarists on two separate occasions. That poster clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

>> No.763467 [DELETED] 

>>761219

is u a poop sausage wat lulz 4335cf9e24d2ac6a0ab42557215292db

>> No.763476
File: 19 KB, 200x200, hitchens1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
763476

>>761564
>>761598
>implying Trotsky was a mindless butcher and more dangerous than Stalin
Give me a break. Trotsky may have been a statist, but he was no Stalin-esque monster.

>> No.763480

>>761811
>source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921#The_international_relief_effort
>it was people of the soviet union vs the international
bourgois and own bourgois using their states as tools.
It's the propaganda for ignorant workers and peasants.
>nationalities never mattered in the soviet union
You tell me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_operations_of_the_NKVD
>wanting more and more power is an invalid argument because power is just a tool to get yourself more money and a better living.
Every dictator (in history thre are many examples) have the whole country and the the lives of all citizens in his hands. So he doesn't need money. Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, Hitler - they all wss indifferent to money and luxury.
>he used it in a much greater and fairer way then any politician in our modern democrasys use it
Starvation (more than 10 bill. dead in 30s and 40s), 27 billons of WW2 casualties, nearly failed war with small Finland, isolation of the country from the inside (i.e. nearly no one of soviet people wasn't able to go abroad), billions of people deportated, imprisoned in the horrible conditions, more then 2 bill. executed, total censorship and brainwashing, etc.

>> No.763487 [DELETED] 
File: 17 KB, 250x330, Chepalm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
763487

>>763480
>27 billion WW2 casualties
> more than 2 bill. executed

>> No.763493
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763493

>27 billons of WW2 casualties
>more then 2 bill. executed

I don't even

>> No.763494

>>763476
>and more dangerous than Stalin
More dangerous for Russia. I admit that Stalin's USSR was a strong country. And Trotsky's USSR would been self-destoyed in foreign and civil wars and economical crisises.

>> No.763495
File: 70 KB, 387x386, sagan_uc.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
763495

>>763480
>billions
>billions
>billions

>> No.763504

>>763495
So from my mistake there is no mass murders of millions people. So funny.

>> No.763534

>>763504

The mistake you made was posting. Kill urself

>> No.763541

>>763534
>Marxiest-Lenenist
tinuviel that's you?

>> No.763548

>>763480

Pretty obvious he means millions.

nb4samefag

>> No.763554

If Stalin actually did kill billions, he'd be pretty fucking awesome.

Don't deny it.

>> No.763561

>>763554
Awesome faggot, OK

>> No.763565

Lenin should have appointed Trotsky. Snowball would have saved the day.

>> No.763566

>>763561

>I can't even kill a dozen people, boo hoo I'm such a failure.

>> No.763569

>>763566
Yep. Also I can't eat shit. What a loser I am.

>> No.763573

>>763569

Can't or won't? You're your own worst enemy, man.

>> No.763577

>>763565

I'm pretty sure Lenin preferred Trotsky over Stalin. Lenin knew Stalin would go on a murderous rampage, and he was right.

>> No.763578
File: 130 KB, 897x1206, Stalin_1902.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
763578

>Lenin should have appointed Trotsky

1. That's not how things worked.
2. Look at how handsome Stalin is. Trotsky was a worthless nerd and the world became a better place once he got that icepick to the brain.

>> No.763583

It wasn't just Lenin chosing this man or that. These were factions within the party vying for supremacy.

>> No.763588

>>763577

Lenin was dying and a total tsundere. Stalin, like any pioneering bad ass, made mistakes. His mistakes were few, and relatively trivial in the grand scheme of things which is why he is considered to be a great man.

>> No.763591

>>763578
Lenin could have made it clear that he intended Trotsky to take over. There were many measures Lenin and Trotsky could have taken to stop Stalin from taking over.

I wouldn't make jokes at Comrade Trotsky's expense. There are no more heroes anymore.

>> No.763592
File: 34 KB, 435x599, Alexander_Kerensky.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
763592

>>763591

None of it fucking matters because Kerenskiy was the rightful leader of Russia.

>> No.763595

>>763578
holy fuck it's keanu reeves

>> No.763596
File: 285 KB, 1024x768, feedthetrolls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
763596

>>763588

>> No.763600

>>763554
he killed more ukranians in a month than jews hitler managed to kill over his entire career

he was a pretty fucking cold dude

>> No.763640

>>763600

Actually it was mother nature that killed them, and you could easily blame America or any other nation on Earth for not sending them food. At least the USSR had an excuse (they had no food either).