/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7554333]

Besides reading and writing, what can one do to appear—and, with time, hopefully become—patrician?

This is what I've thought of:
>Play a classical instrument and learn music theory
>Learn to paint
>Practise penmanship
>Play chess
>Apprendre les langues étrangères ou classiques :^)
>Study rhetoric/critical reasoning, history, philosophy, maths and the natural sciences

Anything else you can think of? Is going to church patrician?

[Anonymous No.7554347]

*unzips dick*

[Anonymous No.7554355]

>>7554347
Rape isn't patrician... I think.

[Anonymous No.7554519]

bump

[Anonymous No.7554527]

reporting shitposts on /lit/, like this one

[Anonymous No.7554533]

wear a classy fedora

[Anonymous No.7554537]

>>7554355
getting away with rape is about as patrician as it gets.

[Anonymous No.7554558]

>>7554527
>Report interesting and novel threads
>Post in the billionth thread on DFW, or Joyce's fart fetish
How "post-ironic", man. How groovy. I hear the new coffee shack, Chet's Beans, has a wicked blend going on right now.

[Anonymous No.7554577]

Let me fuck your boypussy

[Anonymous No.7554578]

>>7554333
You forgot /fit/

[Anonymous No.7554588]

>>7554333
>>7554578
This, body and mind you piece of shit.

Better start Stronglifts 5x5 with plenty of accessories to get ready for summer, so that you can read french classics on the beach totally ripped.

[Anonymous No.7554592]

>>7554578
Fuck off. Is it just me or are /fit/izens the most insecure fuckers on 4chan? They feel this urge to tell people on every other board to lift.

[Anonymous No.7554605]

>>7554592
healthy body, healthy mind.

It's a good message, anon. I may not follow it, but it's a good message.

[Mercy [phone] !!TPKDhZn1Y/7 No.7554622]

I agree with the physical fitness. Yoga, lifting, biking. Just something. And lots of outside time. Everyone looks better after getting some sun.

Also growing, raising, buying, preparing and eating healthy foods. Become a master chef using only the finest ingredients. I've become kind of a food snob since starting the healthy eating thing. It annoys people who don't eat well so I try not to talk about it irl anymore.

[Anonymous No.7554626]

>>7554622
Cooking your own meals is pleb as fuck.

[Anonymous No.7554630]

>>7554592
Yo I don't mean become /fit/, as in, as it is now, I just mean staying active is important m8.

>>7554622

[Anonymous No.7554657]

>>7554592
That whole post reeks of sour grapes and insecurity.

You can be everything in OPs post, but if you are a weak skeleton or a fat slob you arent going to be "patrician", whatever that means.

[Anonymous No.7554662]

>>7554626
If you are alone it would mean starving to death otherwise.

[Anonymous No.7554665]

>>7554622
Why haven't you killed yourself yet?

[Anonymous No.7554680]

>>7554622
So basically the plot of The Martian is man's ascendance to 4chan patrician-hood?

[Anonymous No.7554685]

>>7554578
yeah, be fit, but lifting weights is for utter retards

practice a sport or many sports, go hiking, build something from scratch with your own hands

[Anonymous No.7554690]

>>7554685

You can lift weights without being a /fit/tard dudebro. Lifting is leagues better for you than biking or hiking. Those are meme activities for u underweight manchildren.

[Anonymous No.7554693]

>>7554630
hurrr do u even lift bro i am so patrician :^)) plato lifted u kno <---- how you sound

[Anonymous No.7554707]

>>7554690
Sorry, lifting is the meme activity.
People get into it at 18, think they've finally seen the light and lift religiously for 2-3 years and then stop.

Playing a sport or running or hiking long distances or pretty much anything besides wasting hours in a degenerate gym every other day is preferrable.

Lifting doesn't make you "healthier" than people who excercise in other ways.

[Anonymous No.7554720]

>>7554693
Meant for >>7554657.

Does Pynchon lift? Did Joyce? How about Dante, Shakespeare and Milton?

Also,
>if you are a weak skeleton or a fat slob
Nice false dilemma.

[Anonymous No.7554731]

>>7554690
no, as in the activity itself is for retards.
tell me what difference is there between a mentally defficient person stacking blocks for hours on end, and a weightlifter putting shit up and down among other retards doing the same activity for hours on end (and actively paying to be inside one such venue)
>athletes are underweight manchildren
good one, family

[Mercy [phone] !!TPKDhZn1Y/7 No.7554745]

>>7554680
Funny how working for the basic necessities of life mirrors things we can do to feel fulfilled in the first world.

[Anonymous No.7554751]

>>7554745
Funny how your trip is useless and no-one likes you.

[Anonymous No.7554788]

>>7554333

Handwriting anon here.
I didn't practise that, it came naturally.
Just write cursive all the time.

*quick notes, far les neat.

[Anonymous No.7554794]

>>7554333
The whole patrician/Renaissance man meme is cringe worthy. Most people just become serial dilettantes, never really getting good at anything, and wasting a lot of time. You need to pick things and focus on them -- cut the fat. Many here have mentioned fitness, which I agree with. I'd include, or at least encompass martial arts/self defense in that as well.

>>7554685
>lifting weights is for utter retards
>do sports instead
weightlifting and powerlifting are sports you idiot.
>inb4 do a "REAL" sport

[Anonymous No.7554796]

>>7554333
Finding Jesus and leaving 4chins forever is very, very patrician.

Im serious

[Anonymous No.7554831]

>>7554690
>>7554685

correct, lifting heavy weights is the best exercise you can do. it's how you get Mishima-tier asthetics.

better than cardio such as biking or running which throw off your hormone levels

[Anonymous No.7554837]

>>7554831
>Aesthetics
gb2/fit/. This is /lit/, honey, and the adults are talking about patricians, not Gook manlets who offed themselves.

[Anonymous No.7554858]

>>7554720
I recommend you be as patrician as the latter three and drink exclusively from lead drinking vessels.

[Anonymous No.7554861]

>>7554837

Got any counterarguments, or are you just pointing out that I misspelled a word?

Why don't you tell us how you became so patrician?

[Anonymous No.7554867]

>>7554788
how/where did you learn to do that?

[Anonymous No.7554868]

>>7554333

>Music
Pretty much any instrument that can play the chromatic scale in a few octaves at relatively high speed is worth learning as you can transpose literature between most melodic instruments, just don't learn theremin or some meme shit

>Paint
Patrician, also sculpture

>Penmanship
pointless bullshit in the 21st century

>chess
Very low intellectual ROI, if you want to get to the point where intelligence actually matters you have to spend hundreds of hours memorizing openings endgames and grinding small scale tactics. In any case Go is the objectively superior game.

[Anonymous No.7554876]

>>7554837
>adults

I've never seen a survey page here that indicated the avg year of birth is earlier than 1996.

All these shit arguments against fitness and personal aesthetic is just bitter grapes by weak ivory tower nerds and hipsters. The Greeks knew and appreciated the male physique and saw time spent in the gymnasium and on the field well worth it, but I guess suddenly the Greeks are no longer patrician enough for you.

[Anonymous No.7554881]

>>7554868
>Go is the objectively superior game
*tips kabuto*

[Anonymous No.7554883]

>>7554876
They didn't spend time lifting weights, though. Nice strawman.

[Anonymous No.7554887]

having an encyclopedic knowledge of popular music a la /mu/ or Scaruffi is patrician.

[Anonymous No.7554896]

>>7554883
lel you don't know shit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_training#History

And modern barbells are objectively superior as a means to an end than what the Greeks used anyhow

[Anonymous No.7554920]

>>7554883
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bybon

You are an uneducated poseur. Go back and read Pynchon again and sit smugly thinking how "patrician" you are.

[Anonymous No.7554928]

>>7554920
>140kg one hand press
Christ

[Anonymous No.7554932]

Playing an instrument and exercising are the two most important things besides studying. Both help build neurological functioning, albeit in unique ways. Exercise and learning to play an instrument can replace chess, and painting isn't as necessary since it takes too much time to build technical skill, and it takes talent to be able to compose pieces without formal practice.

Practice penmanship? Hahah, what? You don't need to do that, completely unnecessary for intellect.

[Anonymous No.7554941]

>>7554796
Kind of. Depends on your attitude towards it and if you're just using it to answer all of the daunting questions you lack the reasoning to sort through.

>Look at the world, no science involved in that
^ Ultimate plebian

If you're using it to answer consciousness, you're on the right track.

[Anonymous No.7554942]

>>7554868
>Very low intellectual ROI, if you want to get to the point where intelligence actually matters you have to spend hundreds of hours memorizing openings endgames and grinding small scale tactics

If anything it's the opposite. Intelligence will matter a lot in a match between two low-level players who HAVEN'T memorized endless strategies, since they will be FORCED to actually analyze the situations, to consider all of the possible moves and to create strategies from scratch, whereas grandmasters rely on autistically remembering that one time at a tournament when they saw that a certain strategy worked/didn't work in a similar situation.

[Anonymous No.7554998]

>>7554920
Literally no evidence except for a rock.

I could write "Author of post 7554920 on /lit/ lifted me over his head with his dick" on a car and you'd still be an insecure know-it-all.

[Anonymous No.7555038]

>>7554942
A deep understanding of positional strategy (which pretty much requires tactics mastery) requires way more cerebral power than anything 2 noobs are going to come up with in a low-level game.

[Anonymous No.7555049]

>>7554794
>weightlifting and powerlifting are sports you idiot.
literally not real sports you dummy. olympic weightlifting might, JUST MIGHT, be slightly more real than powerlifting but it's still a step below normal sports

[Anonymous No.7555053]

>>7554942
This is so incredibly stupid and narrowminded.

[Anonymous No.7555064]

>>7554998
A museum piece that is attested to by academics that is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_of_Croton#Feats_of_strength

Milos of Croton fucking figured out progressive resistance training.

Seneca,albeit a Roman complained about weightlifters in passing:

>If you want to study, quiet is not nearly as necessary as you might think. Here I am, surrounded by all kinds of noise (my lodgings overlook a bath-house). Conjure up in your imagination all the sounds that make one hate one's ears. I hear the grunts of musclemen exercising and jerking those heavy weights around; they are working hard, or pretending to.

We have numerous halteres (pic related) which Galen suggests using to build strength for for battle and health

and here is a book for you to read, which you wont since you are not only wrong, but dont want to be wrong, so you will plug your ears like the ignoramus you are: http://www.amazon.com/Athletics-Ancient-World-Norman-Gardiner/dp/0486424863

Im not gonna write a fucking report on weightlifting in greece, but you are, and continue to be wrong.

[Anonymous No.7555082]

>>7555049
Oh are you the person that decides what is and isn't a sport?

[Anonymous No.7555093]

>>7554662

>what are restaurants
>what are servants

Pleb confirmed.

[Anonymous No.7555113]

>>7555049
>he thinks he decides best what is a sport and whats not

away with you

[Anonymous No.7555153]

>>7554333
just shut the fuck up. These kinds of threads are embarassing

[Anonymous No.7555213]

>>7555038
>>7555053
>de Groot presented chess players of varying skill, including some of the best players of the time, with an unfamiliar position and asked them to think aloud as they analyzed the position and chose what move they would make. de Groot found that, contrary to popular belief, the strongest players did not think further ahead than weaker players. World-class Grandmasters (GMs) searched at a similar depth and considered a similar number of options as mere chess experts. The GMs, nevertheless, made better decisions than the experts, choosing better moves and examining moves more relevant to the position. In a second task, the chess players were shown a chess position for a brief period of time (2–15 s) and tested on their recall. GMs proved to have a much greater recall of chess positions than the chess experts. Subsequent research by Chase and Simon (1973a, 1973b) revealed that more skillful players displayed this much superior recall only when the positions were meaningful and typical of ordinary play, but not when pieces were randomly arranged on the board. These findings suggested that what accounted for differences in skill, at least above a certain level of proficiency, was recognizing patterns based on previous experience, rather than a real time search through various options or a difference in general capacities.

>Overall, then, our analyses show evidence that masters search more quickly and possibly also more deeply than intermediates, even if the two groups do not differ on other measures of search. [...] Nevertheless, the differences in search we found seem relatively minor compared to the large differences between masters and intermediates shown in the memory recall experiments for meaningful patterns (Chase & Simon, 1973a, 1973b). The results thus support de Groot’s overall conclusions and are entirely consistent with predictions made by pattern recognition models (e.g., Gobet, 1997; Gobet & Simon, 1998b).

[Anonymous No.7555218]

>>7555064
>Seneca complained about weightlifters...
So you've just proven that weightlifting is for pseuds. Nice one.

[Anonymous No.7555227]

>>7555213
And? This literally has nothing to do with that the first dude said, that newbies games take more "intelligence".

[Anonymous No.7555240]

>>7555218
>complained
Do you think anyone who complain deserve respect?
I think Seneca was not good at weightlifting. And this proves nothing about it.

[Anonymous No.7555248]

>>7555240
Seneca was a literary patrician, unlike those weightlifters.

[Anonymous No.7555274]

>>7555248
Those where weightlifting patricians. The guys who got the fame and the girls and enjoyed their lifes.

[Anonymous No.7555456]

>>7554622
I'm with you. I believe in the I importance of being deliberate with what you eat. My view on the matter is similar to the Rasta notion of Livity.

I haven't had the experience of people being annoyed with what I eat so much as they assume I'm pretentious and judgmental of them, or that I'm "trying to make a statement" (yeah, I've heard that before multiple times) because of what I eat. That's the only reason I don't broadcast my culinary habits. The only time I ever bring it up anymore (and not always in these circumstances either, depends who it is, who else is present) is if someone else shares with me that they are in the process of moving to a healthier and/or vegetarian/vegan diet (mine is primarily vegan, eggs from a chickens owned by a woman I work with about once a week, other animal-based products maybe once a month) and they make it sound like they have questions about things like what exactly they should be eating/avoiding, ideas for keeping a varied diet, etc. And then I make to sure to be clear that what I share with them is only my opinion, and give them a bit about what my opinion is based on.

>>7554626
Could not be further from the truth.

>>7555093
>delegating responsibility for preparing what literally becomes you, the energy that sustains your life force, to others
>patrician

[Anonymous No.7555567]

>>7555082
>>7555113
if a machine can do it better than a person, it's not a sport
can a machine run down a tennis ball and put it on the other end of the court within 1mm of the line under heavy wind? no
can a machine control a 50m pass and score a goal surrounded by three defenders? no
can a machine put up and down 30, 300, or 3000 kg worth of iron for countless more reps and sets than any human? YES.

weightlifting is not a sport. at best it's a test of physical limits, hardly any better than a vodka drinking competition, and about the same in terms of aesthetic beauty

[Anonymous No.7555578]

>>7555567
I should say though, olympic lifts at least look slightly better in slow motion than other lifts. that's the only reason olympic lifting is slightly better than the other styles

[Anonymous No.7555688]

>>7555567

[Anonymous No.7555766]

>>7555274
I bet he told himself that as he bled to death in a bathtub. Do you think he called Nero a chad?

[Mercy [phone] !!TPKDhZn1Y/7 No.7555802]

>>7555456
Yeah, for sure! What made you pick that sort of diet? I'm very much interested in nutrition, and eat a paleo/primal diet with periods of vegetarianism where my main food source is quality eggs like yours. I've read a ton of nutrition books and some studies, and may someday try to become an RD. RN probably comes first though, as backwards as that sounds.

I think the future of nutrition will be all about individualized plans based on genetic information (like 23 and Me) to determine likely food allergies and what foods your ancestors ate- meaning the foods you evolved to eat.

Why a person would not to eat quality foods is beyond me. I feel amazing since eating clean and have the fucking best skin anyone has ever had. But people do get mad when I don't want to join them in eating unhealthy foods. And they think I'm kinda stuck up. Girl at work offered to buy everyone fast food and I was the only one to turn her down. She kinda seemed offended. And when I did try to explain to people how I ate they acted like I was being a dumbass, so now I don't even try. Just have to turn down a lot of food, and most of my coworkers think I'm vegetarian when I'm not.

[Anonymous No.7555850]

>>7554333
All of those require money

[Anonymous No.7555893]

>>7555274
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.7555904]

>>7555766
What do you mean? I'm not into Seneca.
He may thought about Nero as an ignorant.
And Nero may thought about him as someone that could kill him.

Seneca enjoyed his life his own way. I can't judge it cause I'm not him.
All I can do is see what is worth living for, in my own way.

[Anonymous No.7555919]

>>7555893
Build an argument dumbass

[Anonymous No.7556003]

>>7555802
It is difficult for me to explain my dietary regimen as succinctly as a 4chan post tends to require, but I'll do my best.

It started with me ransitioning from a typical American/college student diet, first to a vegetarian, then vegan diet over a period of about a year or year and a half when I was 19/20 (about to be 27). That was based on typical notions of wanting to reduce suffering, along 28th environmental concerns of factory farming, pretty standard for people that age who "go vegan".

Over time, I came to an understanding that concepts like violence and destruction are inherent in existence, and so I came to feel that any mentality stemming from a desire to eliminate those things, or even one based solely or primarily on a principle of trying to reduce it as much as possible, regardless of other considerations, was probably misguided. Simply put, there is no way to avoid killing things, causing some level of violence. To me, this also seems to necessitate that the act of killing, whether a vegetable, insect, or pig, cannot be inherently immoral or otherwise objectionable. Similarly, "exploitation" of, for example, a chicken for its eggs, cannot be. Furthermore, on the rare occasion I eat meat, those animals, and this is true of the chickens whose eggs I eat also, live far more comfortable lives and suffer much less painful deaths than they would otherwise.

I also strive to avoid things like processed foods, foods high in sodium, etc. Like I said earlier, I see it in a way that it greatly reflects the Rasta idea of Livity. What I consume quite literally becomes me, melds with the energy that is my body, and I want that to be as healthy, in a physical as well as metaphysical sense, as possible.

As far as situtations like the fast food thing, I feel you. I typically just make up some excuse that will hopefully avoid offending anyone like your coworker was, and sometimes I will eat things I otherwise wouldn't because of the factor of participating in a communal activity, like when I recently had some of the birthday cake that my mother made and decorated for my niece's birthday.

There are other things that play into my diet as well, but these are the major factors.

Basically, my dietary choices are the result of a highly subjective, case-by-case calculation that reflects an attempt to balance a seemingly infinite number of considerations, in order to determine what I should eat at any given moment in time.

Is my diet objectively ideal for every person? I of course cannot say that. Is it even definitely ideal for me? I really can't say that either, but I can at least say that it is based on thorough contemplation of a number of views, and I sincerely feel that I (usually) make decisions I don't have reasons to feel bad about.

[Anonymous No.7556027]

>>7556003
I should proofread better

*explain the reasons for my dietary regiment

*transitioning

*along with environmental (dunno my autocorrect always changes "with" to some number like that)

*pretty standard reasons

*in order to determine what I think I should eat

[Anonymous No.7556037]

>>7554592
No it really isn't judging from this thread.

[Anonymous No.7556042]

>>7554881
>>7554942
>>7555038
>>7555213
etc.

For what it's worth, 19x19 Go still hasn't been solved by a computer.

[Anonymous No.7556263]

>>7554333
You've got to learn sword play; fencing
Also how to ride a horse

[Anonymous No.7556347]

>>7554868
>>7554932
cursive is the secret language of the educated elite. There are many rich people who happen to be old; they still write letters to each other
"patrician" taste is a more honest version of a conservative american christian mother's furniture.

[Anonymous No.7557443]

>>7554333
You fucking idiot, there is almost nothing related between modern music theory and the ancients. Please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.7557491]

Looks really nice.

I write cursive all the time too, but I can't imagine mine being that uniform. Started about 4 years ago after being unable to read my lecture notes. Much better now, but how long did it take you to get to that level? Can you show us more examples (close ups)?

[Anonymous No.7557534]

>>7554881
Never heard of it before but a Go game box would look nice on my bookshelf next to my kantana and mini Buddhist statue.

[Anonymous No.7557557]

>>7554333
Just look nice and lie to people.
Much easier since all you seem to care about is how you're perceived.

[Anonymous No.7557638]

>>7554333
YOU'VE BEEN DEPORTED FOR VIOLATION OF BOARD RULE #1

NOT LITERATURE, NOT /LIT/

[Anonymous No.7557643]

>>7554685
>do a sport
>but don't lift
So being mediocre at sports is patrician? Pretty much all serious athletes weight train to stay in shape, and there are plenty of things like rugby, rowing and wrestling where you will never ever git gud if you don't lift.

>muh time
It would take far longer to get Olympic wrestler strong by just wrestling than by wrestling and lifting.

[Anonymous No.7557741]

>>7557491
mean for >>7554788

[Anonymous No.7558074]

>>7555456

>not delegating all menial tasks to servants

Haha enjoy not spending your time on worthwhile things like reading Homer in Attic Greek, playing a classical string instrument, and shitposting on /lit/.