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/lit/ - Literature

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7431766 No.7431766[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Well, /lit/?

>> No.7431786

That pic is hilariously bait. I do recall /lit/ having a big pedolit thread once though.

>> No.7431789

>>7431786
>hilariously bait

>> No.7431790

>>7431766
Pindar totally looks like a pedo from that angle.

>> No.7431796

>>7431789
There is nobody on there with any evidence whatsoever of pedophilia, save maybe the Greeks if you misunderstand their whole system of mentorship.
I'm noticing a lot of 'people have theorized that he was gay' figures on there so I have a feeling OP took a 'gay' caption and replaced it with 'pedophile'

>> No.7431805

Pedophilia is a social construct. All the greeks fucked kids. most of the romans too.

>> No.7431806

>>7431796
>Foucault
>Ginsburg
>no evidence
Nigga pls.

>> No.7431811

>>7431786
>big pedolit thread once though
>once

Also while she wasn't technically a pedophile - Simone de Beauvoir was definitely a predator, she routinely and systematically seduced her own students (as young as 16) and pressured them into eventually having a threesome with her and Sartre.

>> No.7431817

>>7431796
Beauvoir and Sartre signed on to no age of consent laws in France back when Ginsberg was joining NAMBLA.

There's strong evidence for most of them, and a whole bunch cite the Greeks as the foundation of it.

>> No.7431824

>>7431817
Based Anon.

>> No.7431831

>"'The Love that dare not speak its name' in this century is such a great affection of an elder for a younger man as there was between David and Jonathan, such as Plato made the very basis of his philosophy, and such as you find in the sonnets of Michelangelo and Shakespeare. It is that deep, spiritual affection that is as pure as it is perfect. It dictates and pervades great works of art like those of Shakespeare and Michelangelo, and those two letters of mine, such as they are. It is in this century misunderstood, so much misunderstood that it may be described as the "Love that dare not speak its name," and on account of it I am placed where I am now. It is beautiful, it is fine, it is the noblest form of affection. There is nothing unnatural about it. It is intellectual, and it repeatedly exists between an elder and a younger man, when the elder man has intellect, and the younger man has all the joy, hope and glamour of life before him. That it should be so, the world does not understand. The world mocks at it and sometimes puts one in the pillory for it."

- Oscar Wilde

>> No.7431839

>>7431796
Not in the pic but Poe married his 14 yar old cousin. and Carroll definitely fingered "Alice" or at least some over the pants stuff went on. as for Foucault and Ginsberg and Sartre and Beauvoir they fucked teenagers practically in broad daylight. Wilde did as well for that matter.

>> No.7431857

>>7431817
>there's strong evidence for most of them
Julius Caesar? Shakespeare? Alexander? Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Keynes, Barthes, Wilde? I would love to see where anyone is considering Shakespeare a pedophile from, considering his life is so ill-attested there are people who don't even think he existed.
>>7431839
Carroll's 'pedophilia' has been subject to debate and the current biographer disavowed it entirely. Don't know where you got this story about fingering

>> No.7431862

Bret Easton Ellis

>> No.7431866

>>7431857
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/12-reasons-prove-shakespeare-was-gay-or-least-bisexual220414/

Also, Barthes admitted to fucking rent boys as young as 16-17, possibly younger.

>> No.7431869

>>7431857
I havent read the most recent biography but I know for a fact her parents specifically asked him to leave and never come near their child again. Plus he just seems like the type.

>> No.7431872

You forgot Edgar Allan Poe

>> No.7431873

>>7431857
Have you read Shakespeare's sonnets? Half of them are dedicated to a crossdressing child.

>> No.7431874

>>7431866
the greatest figure in the history of theater is gay? well i for one am fucking shocked, SHOCKED i tell u

>> No.7431877

>>7431866
>fucking 17 year olds
>pedophile
My bf is currently 17.

>> No.7431879

>>7431866
what does a tabloid claiming Shakespeare was gay have to do with him being a pedophile?

>> No.7431880

>>7431873
crossingdressing child? no, is just a ''young boy''.

>> No.7431883

>>7431866
>gaystarnews.com
kek I agree with you but whew lad

>> No.7431889

>>7431879
gays are basically pedos. the'yre both one step above dogfuckers

>> No.7431890

>>7431880
Young by the times standards was very young. And some of the sonnets hint very heavily to the sexual aspect of it.

>> No.7431893

>>7431890
it is totally sexual.

>> No.7431895

Women like having sex with young people.

It makes them feel safe and powerful.

>> No.7431899

>>7431890
sonnet n° 1 is about the young man masturbation.

>> No.7431900

>>7431857
Wilde famously told Bosie (who he was tried for corruption of a minor over) that he'd be "blackmailed by every renter in London" than to see him upset, when they had an argument about how Bosie seemed to keep giving fourteen year old rough trade letters from their illegal relationships (both with each other and with young boys). He also wrote a whole thing speculating on the historical evidence for Shakespeares boylove and got convicted on speeches for it to be considered real love.

Alexander is famous for his bi-freak shit. You're just providing strong evidence you're ignorant.

Barthes is part of the push the paedo shit freedom ideal that sprung up in France around Beauvoir, Sartre, Foucault et al. It ignores major parts of their work to not have read their shit on paedophilia.

>Carroll's 'pedophilia' has been subject to debate and the current biographer disavowed it entirely. Don't know where you got this story about fingering
>current biographer
Do you really think that's how authority of biography works? The best guess for why Carroll could no longer see the family was not his relationship with Alice but her older sister, who, at thirteen, was a consenting adult.

Gide's also famous for his criminal tales along with his gay fucking every age.

>> No.7431902

>>7431895
women don't know what they like tbqh

>> No.7431906

>>7431902
>women don't like me, so they must not know what they like

/fit/ uses this rhetoric a lot.

>> No.7431908

>>7431902
They are very confused, which is why they grasp for the male penis--for stability.

>> No.7431920

>>7431900
>alexander
Again, what does being bi have to do with being a pedo? Labeling most of the people in the pic 'pedophiles' is sensationalism

>> No.7431930

>>7431902
They know that they don't like you at least. :)

>> No.7431931

>>7431920
literally all the greeks fucked children

>> No.7431935

>>7431920
Did you not start with the Greeks?

>> No.7431940

>>7431935
>mfw not starting with the Sumerians

>> No.7431947

>>7431920
I said bi-freak, not just bi. The fucking both boys and girls is what makes him step into paedo. The sex parties even his fans have to mumble some shit equivalent to "it's probably just a natural state of any top with lots of slaves" doesn't even need to be sensationalised to be depraved.

You're going to have to get over writers being gay and fucking 14 year olds like it ain't no thing, because most of the great ones are fucked up, man. I recommend starting with Death of the Author by Barthes and ignoring that he paid kids for sex so you can just appreciate it as a text, you know? History and canon are not on your side with this crusade.

>> No.7431948

>>7431895
i like to have sex with old guys m8

>> No.7431956

>>7431931
Greek pederasty wasn't pedophilia in the modern conception of the word

>> No.7431959

>>7431895
You must have skipped high school altogether. Cute freshman girl dates mediocre junior guy. He wants a cutie, she wants a guy who is older and can drive. Girls brag about their 20+ boyfriends when they're 15. It's sort of ridiculous.

>> No.7431964

>>7431956
yeah, because they only barred the consenting boys from citizenship. it's a good thing that we don't have the same conception of hubris.

>> No.7431972

>>7431947
I will admit I was wrong here, going to go back and delete my post which sent this thread into a constant stream of people pointing out how this and that author actually was a ped

I will say though, you have completely mischaracterized my intentions here. Let's just say I sympathize with the people in the pic (if what you all claim is true).
My main gripe lay with the authors who are certainly not considered pedophiles by any serious scholar, and I assumed the rest followed suit as bait. If anything, considering how society treats pedophiles, the fact that any of the people in OP's pic haven't suffered a damnatio memoriae seemed the most compelling point to suggest they weren't pedos

>> No.7431975

>>7431948
You forgot "rich."

>> No.7431978

>>7431959
That's because they're girls and women, you pedo.

>> No.7431983

> Leonardo da Vinci
Amongst others this the first time I'm hearing about this crap.

>> No.7432005

>>7431983
That's because it's fucking MADE UP.

>> No.7432012

0/10 this entire thread is bait.

Show me evidence that at least ONE of the people pictured was a paedophile. Just one.

>> No.7432021

>>7432012
Now I don't know what to believe. I called bait and fifteen people came out of the woodwork to tell me it's legit, and now people are calling bait again?

>16 IPS
Looks like we're in for another incest-global-warming-antisemitic-ulysses thread

>> No.7432034
File: 58 KB, 477x354, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7432034

>>7432012

>> No.7432038

>>7432012
>Show me evidence that at least ONE of the people pictured was a paedophile. Just one.
Wilde, Whitman, Ginsberg, Beauvoir, Sartre, Foucault, Gide, and Barthes were all open about fucking teens.

>>7432021
>antisemitic
This exists on /lit/?

>> No.7432054

>>7431972
No, you've got it wrong m8: paedophilia is common enough that to bar everything about paedophilia from being read would mean most of the great figures of canon would be gone. Sex sells, and unnatural sex twice so. Tbh, if you're shocked and astounded by mere paedophilia, you haven't read much. Your main gripe is that the world isn't as blinkered as you.

>> No.7432058
File: 44 KB, 500x375, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7432058

>>7432038
>exists on /lit/
Another hand rubber trying to create a phantom of false consensus. Despicable.

>> No.7432060

now that we've established that all these great men were pedos we must ask the question; is pedophilia morally wrong?

>> No.7432073

>>7432054
Did you read my post? I guess I'll spell it out for you-- I am one myself. My reluctance to accept the pic in OP came from the fact that I thought it was pure bullshit, not that it 'shocked' me. I couldn't give less of a fuck if the person I'm reading is a pedo.

>> No.7432074

>>7432060
>morally wrong
Srsly, the real question is why are we letting people who haven't even read Wilde post here?

>> No.7432080

>>7432073
Oh, I thought you were contributing to a discussion of books, not blogposting. Apologies for not noticing you were being a retarded faggot and thinking you wanted to talk about books and authors. Bye, then.

>> No.7432127

>>7432080
What? You repeatedly attacked my personal stance on the argument ("You are shocked by pedophilia") and then when I explain that is the opposite of truth, you respond with this? You were the person who brought personal stances into the conversation in >>7431947

>> No.7432138

>mfw nearly all of our love poems are written for teenage boys and hairless men
>mfw evreyone was pedo and gay during middle ages
>mfw now we excute gays if they do it 3 times
Well we went backwards

>> No.7432172

>>7432127
You were shocked by the rate of paedophilia in canon. That's the only feelings on the matter which matter in that it makes you a retard. Maybe you like kids because we tell them not to point out retards.

>> No.7432197

>>7432172
I was shocked by the rate because as things currently stand, in the west, pedophilia produces hysteria like no other perceived 'crime'. The rising terrorist threat level in the last few months has obviously superseded it, but in the relative lull during the prior years pedophilia seemed to be the prime bogeyman of the adult zeitgeist. It is thus surprising that this current state of society would let any author go unslandered if they were proven a pedophile in the modern conception (see the kind of vitriol heaped on people like Lovecraft and even Houellebecq for allegations of racism/intolerance)

What more do you want out of me here? To renounce the fact that I thought the pic was bullshit? I don't think anyone would disagree that the pedo connections are kept on the down low with the vast majority of people in OP's pic. 'Julius Caesar' and 'William Shakespeare' get likened to a whole lot of things, but the pedophilic aspect of their lives is one of the absolute last. If you interviewed a thousand people I would be surprised if you found even one who brought up pedophilia apropos Shakespeare.
Hell, even ITT nobody has explained how it relates to Caesar

>> No.7432207

>>7432197
>Hell, even ITT nobody has explained how it relates to Caesar

because it's literally bait

stop trying to be earnest in a bait thread

>> No.7432228

>>7432207
I would tend to agree but you can't deny that anon(s) produced plausible relations to pedophilia for a lot of the people in the pic. Shakespeare and all the people born before him are dubious/baity because of different conceptions of sexuality in those eras, but the pic itself seems like it might be earnest with the rest.

>> No.7432236

>>7432228
>you can't deny that anon(s) produced plausible relations to pedophilia for a lot of the people in the pic


classic bait technique. look.

>> No.7432258

>>7431983
>>7432005
>"At the age of 38, Leonardo "adopted" a beautiful but roguish 10-year- old boy, nicknamed Salai ("Little Devil"). His presence in Leonardo's home has perplexed scholars for several centuries, since Salai was neither servant nor apprentice, and since Leonardo himself described the boy as a "thieving, lying, obstinate" glutton. The two were inseparable companions for nearly twenty-six years."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_life_of_Leonardo_da_Vinci#Leonardo.27s_sexuality

Also, Freud thought that Da Vinci was a pederast

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci,_A_Memory_of_His_Childhood

>> No.7432261

I already like young girls.

De Beauvoir (Satre too) and Foucault are both wastes of paper. Most of those people are, actually.
>>7431959
Lad I started dating my girl when she was in the 8th grade and I was 24, and she never asked me to drive her.

>> No.7432263

>>7432236
I have seen pretty explicit support for
>de Beauvoir
>Sartre
>Ginsberg
>Wilde (seems to explain the inclusion of both Shakespeare and Michelangelo to boot)
>Carroll
>Barthes
>Foucault
>Gide

That leads several of the post-shakespeareans to be accounted for, but that seems way too significant to be pure coincidence that so many authors actually fell in line with a bait attempt

Just googling Thomas Mann myself also comes up with a line about him admitting his attraction to a 14 year old boy

>> No.7432350

>>7432197
dude caesar lived in a time when there was a word for the slave who walked you to school to make sure you didn't get raped if your wealthy parents liked you enough, and where class structure was more important than age in whether or not one was considered raped. your method of debate just shows how much of history you need to be spoonfed, not some stunning new information. you've basically been living under a rock for this rate to be shocking to you.

Julius Caesar in all of that is interesting since he's accused by several different authors of the shameful role: that he had been subjugated in his youth, and therefore was Bithynia's twinkbitch. Calling him queen happened so often when his soldiers called him "every woman's husband" he said he was also "every man's wife"

>> No.7432366

>>7432350
Do you have a source/further reading on that? Sounds interesting as fuck

>> No.7432372

why has sex with young boys been so prevalent
like all cultures did it at some point

>> No.7432376

>>7432366
Yeah, there's several. The main one is Suetonius' Twelve Caesars:
There was no stain on his reputation for chastity except his intimacy with King Nicomedes, but that was a deep and lasting reproach, which laid him open to insults from every quarter. I say nothing of the notorious lines of Licinius Calvus:

"Whate'er Bithynia had, and Caesar's paramour."
I pass over, too, the invectives of Dolabella and the elder Curio, in which Dolabella calls him "the queen's rival, the inner partner of the royal couch," and Curio, "the brothel of Nicomedes and the stew of Bithynia." I take no account of the edicts of Bibulus, in which he posted his colleague as "the queen of Bithynia," saying that "of yore he was enamoured of a king, but now of a king's estate." At this same time, so Marcus Brutus declares, one Octavius, a man whose disordered mind made him somewhat free with his tongue, after saluting Pompey as "king" in a crowded assembly, greeted Caesar as "queen." But Gaius Memmius makes the direct charge that he acted as cup-bearer to Nicomedes with the rest of his wantons at a large dinner-party, and that among the guests were some merchants from Rome, whose names Memmius gives.

>> No.7432378

I don't know who a great many of those people are apart from the ones from antiquity

so I couldn't be bothered if we'd be rid of them

>> No.7432386

>>7431796

Given Oscar Wilde's history of deviancy, there isn't much implausibility that it was in his character.

>> No.7432395

>>7431947
>I recommend starting with Death of the Author by Barthes and ignoring that he paid kids for sex so you can just appreciate it as a text, you know?
Oh fuck, Barthes on suicide watch.

>> No.7432397

>>7432376
Thanks, cool shit

>> No.7432400

>>7431766
Wow, this kind of bait is without any effort in fooling anybody. Some of these people were probably sexually interested in teens who were considered legal and such relationships would have been non-taboo in their time and place of living. Also, Shakespeare didn't even exist. He's a collective group of mysterious playwrights.

>> No.7432416

>>7432400
>Shakespeare didn't even exist.

Wow, this kind of bait is without any effort in fooling anybody.

>> No.7432437

>>7432258
>Da Vinci painted a gag angel with a boner
>means he was gay
Bloody moronic

>> No.7432469

>>7431766
You forgot Nabokov.

>> No.7432511

>>7432386
He had kids, and wrote kids stories for them. Some of his best work is childrens stories, for his kids, that he loved.

You can be gay without being a pedo.

>> No.7432513

>>7432511
>You can be gay without being a pedo.

You're stupid, dude. A lot of gay guys are only into fat, hairy bears.

>> No.7432516

>>7432513
Which contradicts me how, exactly?

>> No.7432574

>>7432511
Wilde fucked underage rentboys, and thought man-boy love was the purest form of love. Writing good children's stories doesn't preclude you from being a pedo.

>> No.7432577

>>7432574
citation needed

>> No.7432581

>>7431766
Society would be better without Simone de Beauvoir.

>> No.7432582

>>7432577
All of the courtcase when he was tried for sodomy and De Profundis which he wrote to his young male lover while in prison after the rentboys testified.

>> No.7432585

>>7432516
nice reading comprehension

>> No.7432593

>>7432582
That proves him gay, not pedo. None of those were children.

>> No.7432615

>>7432593
Uh yeah there were, and he stated that it was pure love. He was totally into the hebophilia aspect of the Greeks, and you whining won't erase him fucking fourteen year olds from history. I mean, he wasn't as pedo as Bosie who liked to kidnap 12 year old ethnic kids on holidays (source: Gide) but he definitely fucked kids below the age of consent.

>> No.7432631

>>7431766
ppl don't want to accept life as it is, religion is to blame for 95% of it, just look at all the christfags in this thread, the thought that people on here are discussing paedophilia in a positive light is so enticing to their good natures they can't even keep away

>> No.7432641

>>7431831
"Younger man" doesn't mean 10

>> No.7432647

>>7432593
implying homosexuality and pedophilia aren't one and the same

>> No.7432654
File: 1.58 MB, 625x626, 1448411960790.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7432654

>>7431766
nice bait thread you fucking fag

>> No.7432660

>>7432654
jesus gets fucked by god in heaven and he turns hm into a 12 year old altar boy everytime

>> No.7432665

>>7432647
They aren't. Pedophilia with girls is alright and is natural but pedophilia with boys/homosexuality are both hormonally-based illnesses.

>> No.7432669

>>7431766

>No foucault
>no sartre
>no beavuoir
>no wilde

Almost worth it.

>> No.7432676
File: 204 KB, 1024x996, 1437604217247.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7432676

>>7431811
>Simone de Beauvoir will never pressure you into having a threesome with Sartre

>> No.7432686

>>7432669
Are you blind?

>> No.7432696

>>7431811
>tfw you never be preyed upon by simone de beauvoir
damn it, i'm going to a funeral in a couple hrs and i still haven't slept and now i will be actively fantasizing for the next two hrs

>> No.7432719

>>7431862
bullshit

>> No.7432784

>>7431766
>only 3 women
>tfw not molested by hawt female relative, or family friend when small
>tfw not becoming fucked up as i grew older and seeing women as a mens to an end
>tfw not going around fucking woemn in the ass to humiliate them and establish my dominance

Why live?

>> No.7432804

>this thread

Why is it that in current times pedo refers to any one under the age of consent, not just children below 11 years old.

If I fuck a 17 year old in Klapistan I would be labeled a pedo, even if its on the eve of her 18th birthday.

Yet, when that clock strikes 12, i can dp her all I want, probably in front her parents, and not have anything done to me.

Americlap is fucked up.

>> No.7432820

>>7432804
You'd be seen as pedophilic in the US even if the woman was of age and under 30 but you were 10 or even 8 years older than her.

>> No.7432823

>>7432820
What a world we live in

>> No.7432857

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/gays.html

>> No.7432887

>>7432804
17 girls are fantastic

>> No.7432910
File: 218 KB, 600x1003, ggddd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7432910

don't forget about old mate burroughs

>> No.7432917

>>7431766
>J.M. Keynes
Good Riddance

>> No.7432937

>C Cavafy
Does anybody non-greek in here actually like him (or have heard of him?)..Serious question...

>> No.7432940

>>7432937
I do. He got picked up by the Modernists so I presume anyone who studies them would come across his work. I think Penguin put him in their Little Black Book collection recently, so he's not going to be obscure for long, if he is obscure.

>> No.7432951

>>7432940
thanks, good to know

>> No.7432968

>>7431766
>Spurious connections
>Attributing "better off without pedophelia" with "better off with pedophiles / people who act on it"

>>7431796
Accurate. Greeks actually didn't think of homo-sex as we do, they still thought of it as being degenerate.

>>7431866
While 16-17 is young, and very questionable it is far from pedophelic. Pedophelia by its definition is an attraction to children (i.e. prepubescents)

>>7431873
Shakespeare's sonnets are written about half from a male POV and half from a female POV. It'd be pretty fucking reaching to take it as evidence of him being gay. Especially because of the fact of what that would entail in his own time if it was so clear. Seems more like financial expediency than intent.

>>7431895
Depends on time and age. Generally no, as is to be expected from an evolutionary perspective.

>>7432138
>mfw they drew and quartered gays in the middle ages
>mfw you're a fucking retard
>"In the thirteenth century, in areas such as France, male homosexual behavior resulted in castration on the first offense, dismemberment on the second, and burning on the third."

>>7432197
Interestingly, apparently homosexuality often coincides with a higher rate of intelligence or something to that effect. Homosexuality coincides with more sexual deviance (especially in an age where it was of equal punishability) so its not ultimately surprising. There's also the environmental factor wherein you could easily argue that the households that offered more lavish / sheltered life were more predisposed to homosexuality rather than those that imposed harsh punishment, manual labor, and drudgery. Again, this would correlate to lower classes vs upperclasses.

>>7432804
Idiocy and social ubiquity. I think its done more ironically desu. Its legally not pedophelia if you have sex someone past that age.

Physically its reasonable to be attracted to girls of that age, albeit there are plenty on that spectrum that look far from womanly. If you're outright attracted to a 14-15 year old looking 17-18 year old than there may be something off about you...

But a curvy, fit 17-18 year old? Nothing unnatural about that. Either way though, a fit 22 year old or so with big tits will be at her peak. Women fall off pretty much past 25 imo.

>> No.7433012

I wonder how anon's scanulation of pic related is going?

>> No.7433541

>>7433012
Sorry m8, book is missing. Listed as not available in the catalog.