Question for the Pynchon Appreciation Society of /lit/

[Anonymous No.7343705]

Have any of you read "Been Down So Long It Looks Like Up To Me" by Richard Fariña? He was a good buddy old pal of Tommy Pinecone and died a few days after "Been Down So Long..." was published.

Pinecone dedicated Gravity's Rainbow to him.

What did you guys think of it?

[Anonymous No.7343708]

I think I will cry when Pynchon dies.

[Anonymous No.7343726]

>>7343708
I hope he leaves /lit/ a scavenger hunt equivalent to Oedipa Maas' or Slothrop's journey throughout the zone, where we all get scattered into the skies, transcending beyond knowledge and experience, realizing Pinecone was never hiding, he was in our hearts all along.

[Anonymous No.7343729]

>>7343708
That's embarrassing, m8. Try idolizing a better author.

[Anonymous No.7343730]

Richard wasn't he in a band? Isn't that book by John Fante? Are you testing our knowledge of Pynchonalia?

[Anonymous No.7343731]

Settle this once and for all: how is Pynchon pronounced?

[Anonymous No.7343741]

It feels kinda blasphemous badmouthing the sole effort of someone who I agree with on many points/who passed too soon/who is respected by one of my favorite authors, but BDSLILUTM just isn't very good. In terms of prose, Farina doesn't fulfill any niche that Pynchon doesn't satisfy at least 5 times better.

A lot of emphasis is put on how zany and in tune with the counterculture the protagonist is which would normally be fine given the context (a hippie in an upper class college) but he always has to have the wittiest reply that makes every other character look like a buffoon, and there is a lot of namedropping for namedropping's sake.

That last point is what really ruined the book for me. It felt like the entire point of the novel was to demonstrate than anyone not in line with the counterculture was somehow doing wrong in their life; it had such a sense of superiority that kinda invalidates the whole image it's trying to espouse.

[Anonymous No.7343744]

>>7343730
He was in a band, with his wife I believe.

That book is not by John Fante. It's by Richard Fariña.

Perhaps. I just sort of realized I'd never seen a discussion of it before on here, yet Pinecone is a daily presence.

[Anonymous No.7343748]

>>7343731
pine-cone

[Anonymous No.7343749]

>>7343729
All better authors are dead, plen.

[Anonymous No.7343751]

>>7343749
He's got a point.

[Anonymous No.7343766]

>>7343741
I'm more in line with your opinion of it than Pinecone's, although yes, he really could have evaluated into something eventually.

Although he has a style quite like Pynchon's he seems to miss whatever beat it is that Pynchon knows the tune of oh so well.

When I finished it I wasn't entirely sure what it was trying to get at all along. It was more just... a recollection of a time and a place, with zany humor and Greek references here and there. Although I did have a mighty chuckle every now and then.

Was there a character in it based on Pynchon? I can't remember, but I vaguely recall a buck-toothed character.

Also, the Pengiun classic edition (pictured) has an intro by Pynchon.

[Anonymous No.7343806]

Stone Junction by Jim Dodge also has an introduction by Pynchon, and is another zany/hippie book.

I'd rather just reread Vineland tbqh.

[Anonymous No.7343815]

>>7343705
Funny book. Enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.7343826]

>>7343751
Not at all.

[Anonymous No.7343847]

Fun fact, Thomas Pynchon was the best man at Richard and Mimi Farina's wedding.

[Anonymous No.7343877]

"Bill Murray, Pol Pot and Thommy Pinecone are playing foosball, right?"

[Anonymous No.7343927]

>>7343729
Even if you don't love his books (you're a pleb if you don't like them, but we'll let it go for now), Pynchon is one of the coolest people to ever live, and I mean that as both the extent and limit of his greatness. His family was on the Mayflower, and he was at the center of the action when the world jumped the shark during WW2, handpicked to carry on the legacy of the Manattan project before he rejected that future to serve as a lowly seaman and disappear into the burgeoning counterculture, to form it and be formed by it. He's one of very first people to comprehend the enormity of the second world war and its aftermath, arguably the Adam of the nuclear age, and it's just icing on the cake that he's a god-tier author. All the memes really miss that he wrote Gravity's Rainbow out of fear and anger and drug-fueled paranoia over things that weren't part of the public consciousness then and are still rejected from the mainstream narrative today, and that Mason and Dixon is his conciliatory love letter to America and the western world as an older, less idealistic man.

He may not be the greatest American author, but his life is truly one of a kind, even given how little we know about it, and nobody else got as close, personally and in prose, to the heart of his generation's key events.

[Anonymous No.7343937]

>>7343927
Pinecone was born in 1937, doofus. It's true that he was as WASP as WASP can get, but to say that he should be remembered for anything but some occasionally nice prose is going too far.

[Anonymous No.7343948]

>>7343937
I mean, if you don't like history then fine, but his family was the subject of House of the Seven Gables by Hawthorne and founded several notable towns in New England. He's obviously not responsible for that, but its still cool. If you've read Gravity's Rainbow and still don't care about his family history, you're a fool because much of the book is about his anxiety over the legacy.

As for the atomic age thing, his first two years at Cornell were spent in a program tailor-made to continue the Manhattan Project if it went on long enough to need young blood, and his first job after college was as a writer for Boeing when defense contractors, particularly in aviation, were getting unprecedented amounts of money from the gov. He was in a very unique position to observe unimaginable technologies and the military-industrial complex in utero.

[Anonymous No.7343954]

>>7343726
I'd declare cringe thread if I wasn't so on board with this

[Anonymous No.7344068]

>>7343948
I appreciate the insight from your two posts. I had read much of his past but never really caught on that he was potentially meant to continue on the Manhattan Project. It really adds so much more to his writing.

And all his family history is fascinating, I loved those sections of GR. Did you ever read The Meritorious Price of Our Redemption by William Pynchon? It was mentioned in GR as the book written by his ancestor that was banned. It's said to be the New-World's first banned book.

Finding out these bits of information make me want to read deep into the context to get maximum benefit from a reread of GR.

[Anonymous No.7344069]

I absolutely love the book and have read it three times. It falls off towards the end as it starts to take itself more seriously, but Farina really could tell a fun story.

I disagree with
>>7343741
on a lot of levels. The first being that Farina doesn't do anything stylistically Pynchon doesn't do better, because I don't think Farina's first person stream of consciousness really reads too much like Pynchon, and secondly I think this post is an unfair judgement of Farina's intention. It's a pretty straightforward bildungsroman that in the end shows the dark side of Gnossos' life style and even condemns it.

>Was there a character in it based on Pynchon? I can't remember, but I vaguely recall a buck-toothed character.
Heff was the buck toothed half black who seemed to me to be the most likely candidate for a Pynchon character, but at the same time, like the forward says, Farina isn't just pulling a Jack Kerouac and changing people's names, he's writing his own stories and characters.

[Anonymous No.7344073]

>>7344069
Ahhh, Heffalump, that's the one.

You've got some good points there. I suppose it would be harder for some to really grasp the novel when most would find out about it via the Pynchon connection, and upon reading it perhaps wrongly assume it to be a sort of Pynchon-esque charade, and being disappointed. Although I found the styles similar, I might have to take another look at it.

[Anonymous No.7344079]

>>7343705
Why is there a picture of Elliot Rodger on the front cover of this book?

[Anonymous No.7344085]

>>7344079
Nah, senpai, that guy's Greek, not retarded.

[Anonymous No.7344088]

>>7343937
I thought he was Jewish

[Anonymous No.7344096]

>>7343749
Pynchon is alive in me

[Anonymous No.7344100]

DeLillo > Pinecone

[Anonymous No.7344115]

This book honestly made me more outgoing. I think it's a blast.

>>7344100
an unnecessary comparison. Each address their own interests masterfully and their styles rarely overlap.

[Anonymous No.7344133]

>>7344115
>This book honestly made me more outgoing.

How so? To what extent did you emulate Gnossos? I wish I had some paregoric Pall Malls...

[Anonymous No.7344150]

>>7344133
>To what extent did you emulate Gnossos?
luckily didn't try. but it did get me out of my room in my first year of university when I really needed it

[Anonymous No.7344970]

It's like we just altogether rose and said in quiet unison, "Fuck the shitposting, we are in love."

[Anonymous No.7345003]

anyone seen the film and/or have a download?

[Anonymous No.7345316]

>>7344068
I think the existence of a major at an Ivy League university designed to feed a top-secret program says a lot about his life and times. That's insane conspiracy-theory fuel but it's objectively true that Engineering Physics was meant to develop leaders in weapons technology from the undergraduate level, and Pynchon's family history probably does have something to do with being selected for the program, something like a de facto Yankee White security clearance.

[Anonymous No.7345458]

>>7345316
>>7344068

If Pynchon wanted his personality and character to be factored into readings of his work he wouldn't eschew the media and interviews like he does.

[Anonymous No.7345477]

>>7345458
You can understand Pynchon's work without knowing his history, but what we've gleaned about it from sources he has no way of silencing lends him credibility. Pynchon's a bit of a unique case with regards to this problem of that author's history vs. his work because he writes about recorded history that he's personally involved with.

[Anonymous No.7345478]

>>7343705
it's pronounced [pœ̃-ʃɔ̃]

[Anonymous No.7345488]

>>7345477

I agree that it lends him credibility, but I feel that his hiding all his personal details is intentional and at least a small part of his artistic vision so to speak. Although I do get that mostly he keeps quiet to leave his works open to interpretation on their own merit rather than him leading people towards certain forgone conclusions.

[Anonymous No.7345495]

>>7345488
Eh, his family name is big enough that if he really didn't want anyone to know anything about himself he could use a pseudonym.

[Anonymous No.7347309]

>>7345458
why would he need his life open to the public for it to have the same affect on his works? the work should speak for itself, and it does. you still get what he's trying to say, even if you don't make the connection between slothrop's past and pinecones.

[Anonymous No.7347325]

>>7343948
>his family was the subject of House of the Seven Gables by Hawthorne
You memeing, lad? He specifically pointed out that it had nothing to do with them, called them silly asses and considered changing the name.

His family history makes up a huge chunk of the inspiration for Gravity's Rainbow, but it's not necessary to appreciate it. I'd say on the contrary that, overall, the more you know about his sources, the less impressive the book gets.

[Anonymous No.7348097]

>>7345003
I tracked down a copy for sale here

>http://www.thevideobeat.com/beatnik-hippie-drug-movies/been-down-so-long-looks-like-up-1971.html
but have yet to bite the bullet

I don't expect it's a good transfer (or a good movie for that matter) and can't justify spending the money

there is also a small set of clips on youtube with some pretty identifiable scenes and some great comments

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUydtIyri1Y

"I don't believe someone actually posted this!! I produced this picture in the mid sixties. Didn't make a dime. I always say that if both of my sisters would have seen it, it would have made that dime. Thanks for the meories!!"

"When I was in the Army and stationed at Ft. Devens, Massachusetts in 1974 and received orders for Shemya, Alaska, the subarctic Aleutian Island that has worst weather in the world, I did what all good troopers at Devens did who get sent to shit hole assignments in remote locations - I went down to Boston's "Combat Zone" to get drunk and laid before shipping out. I was successful in my mission, but alas, missed the last bus back to base until the following morning. I was low on cash by that time, so I went into a 24/7 artsy movie house near the Commons. I guess it was around 3 a.m. they put this movie on and I enjoyed the heck out of it, especially as I was still very drunk and for years later I was never sure if the movie was a dream. Thanks for putting my mind to rest! This was the movie I saw many moons ago. I DIDN'T DREAM IT!!!! :-)"

[Anonymous No.7349029]

>>7348097
>We think this film was made to encourage young people to graduate college, get a job, make money, and conform to the American establishment's "rules" of the late 1950s. Because the main character Gnossos Pappadapoulis, is a 20-something, beatnik-type who does none of these things and leads an unhappy life of drugs, sex, mocking conventions, and looking for an "answer" that does not exist.

Damn, I didn't think this existed. Someone needs to upload this to torrent websites, could be a long lost cult hit like Wake In Fright...

[Anonymous No.7349228]

>>7343948
no one listen to this guy

[Anonymous No.7349265]

>>7348097
>Why'd you get into astronomy?
>What are you, kidding? For the money

lmao I have to read this book now

[Anonymous No.7349369]

>>7349228
Pynchon please go

[Anonymous No.7349414]

>>7343927
Where did you pick up that he was handpicked to be involved in the Manhattan Project? I Googled it and nothing showed up

[Anonymous No.7349418]

>>7349414
His first major at Cornell, "Engineering Physics," was designed around the needs of the Manhattan Project and other military programs.

[Anonymous No.7349461]

>>7343741
totally agree with this.

also: lists, lists everywhere.jpg

[Anonymous No.7349536]

>>7348097
damn paps is looking old in the movie. looks pretty hilarious thou for it's era. would love to see it.

[Anonymous No.7349585]

>>7348097
>>7349536
actor playing paps looks old, unhealthy, and completely free of charm

weird lookin movie too. that push in when paps and heff are in the pub is just awkward. why is it silent in a bar? why do they look so bored and serious? these seem like such obvious mistakes

[Anonymous No.7349618]

>>7343948
>>7343927
Nigga do you even fact check any of the bullshit you pull out of your ass?
Fuck you're insufferable

[Anonymous No.7349716]

>>7343927
This is effusive but I completely agree with it. Pynchon is a modern-day American mythologist

[Anonymous No.7349942]

>>7349618
>it's not in the wikipedia article so it's not real
Come on buddy, tell me what in there you know to be wrong. I've probably read everything there is to read about Pynchon and have talked personally with two people who knew him back in the day. A lot of what's in there isn't so much a matter of objective, documented fact as putting pieces together, but most of it pretty much is. What's your problem?

>>7349716
That's how I'd put it.

[Anonymous No.7350289]

>>7349942
>have talked personally with two people who knew him back in the day.

IS THAT YOU PINECONE?
THE PRODIGAL SON RETURNS!
THE PORRIDGIBLE SON RETURNETH!

[Anonymous No.7350295]

Poor bastard got keked by bob dylan (artistically AND literally) then fell off a motorcycle and died before he got a chance to read Gravity's Rainbow

shit life

[Anonymous No.7350302]

>>7345488
I agree with this.

I like so often with Pychon, you're not fully meant to "get it" when you're reading it; you should feel lost and confused and paranoid at these large, only semi visible systems and conspiracies constantly pervading his work but never really "crack" the enigma of what's going on, just instead, fuelling your own vague paranoia at the background events.

Which, I think, is what Pynchon saw with his military links. Just a tantalizing glimpse at some awful machinery tucked just under the skin of America.

[Anonymous No.7350498]

>>7343744
>that angelic creature is the sister of Joan Baez
wrong kid died

[Anonymous No.7350600]

>>7350498
dewey cox reference?