/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7337890]

>"The World Fantasy award trophy will no longer be modelled on HP Lovecraft, it has been announced, following a campaign last year that called the author out as an “avowed racist” with “hideous opinions”.

What do you think /lit/?

Pic related is from one of the authors who called for Lovecraft to be replaced.

[Anonymous No.7337892]

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/nov/09/world-fantasy-award-drops-hp-lovecraft-as-prize-image

[Anonymous No.7337893]

>niggers

[Anonymous No.7337894]

Lovecraft sucks, Fantasy sucks and Twitter sucks

I couldn't care less what these subhumans get up to

[Anonymous No.7337896]

>>7337890
>someone disagrees with me
>THEY MUST BE SILENCED. PURGE THEM FROM THE ANNALS OF HISTORY!!!
why can't people be chilling, man.

[Anonymous No.7337898]

>>7337890
>award trophy
Accolades are the pursuit of pure amateurs. Any true patrician would know that the most masterful work slips into obscurity unnoticed.

[Anonymous No.7337900]

>>7337896
it's the lashing out of a cornered beast

[Anonymous No.7337901]

>>7337892
>"Last year, Older launched a petition asking for the change. Signed by more than 2,500 people, the petition asked organisers to make the acclaimed African American science fiction writer Octavia Butler the model for the trophy, rather than Lovecraft,"

We fantasy now

[Anonymous No.7337902]

>>7337892
Lovecraft isn't close to the epitome of fantasy so him being changed is alright. The reason's stupid though and so's the "moral outrage" but I don't really care.

Is Octavia Butler going to be the model for the new trophy or has it not been decided yet?

[Anonymous No.7337903]

>>7337901
jesus

[Anonymous No.7337904]

>>7337901
I wonder how Butler would feel about being patronised in this way.

[Anonymous No.7337909]

>>7337902
>Octavia Butler
is she any good?

[Anonymous No.7337911]

>>7337901
I just read Butler's Kindred. it's brety gud, but she writes like a black woman PKD on some of his weaker novels/stories.

[Anonymous No.7337912]

>>7337901
>>7337903
>>7337902
>>7337909
>>7337904
Whiteys detected

[Anonymous No.7337914]

>>7337909
I've never heard of her and I've read most relevant sff authors. She didn't leave a mark on literature obviously. Strange how they didn't go with Tolkien, Lewis, Leiber, Howard or any of other relevant authors.

[Anonymous No.7337921]

>>7337914
Has it actually been decided? It seems it's just a proposition.

>>7337912
I'm not but I think you're probably white and want stir up conflict.

[Anonymous No.7337924]

Mira Gonzalez has tweeted about the news

/LIT/ GETTING BTFO

[Anonymous No.7337926]

Make it after MacDonald then.

[Anonymous No.7337928]

>>7337924
what did she mean by this?

[Anonymous No.7337929]

>>7337924
/lit/ ON SUICIDE WATCH

I'm just going to hang myself now.

[Anonymous No.7337930]

>>7337926
>white male

[Anonymous No.7337933]

I actually don't mind. There's a certain type of way to handle the legacy of awful people who happen to be classic artists that bothers me, and theres another way that doesn't.

The one that bothers me is dismissing the work on moral grounds. That guy in the tweet for instance calling him overrated, is doing that which I find annoying. I'm not a Lovecraft fan or anything (I only read like...one of his short stories), but using fucking morality as a measure of literary quality?

But this...this is okay. It's okay to call the fucker out on his racism as long as it stays at the artist level. "Exalt the art, lament the artist."

[Anonymous No.7337934]

>>7337921
>I think you're probably white and want stir up conflict.
I am, yes.

[Anonymous No.7337935]

>>7337933
Stop using ellipsis like that

[Anonymous No.7337936]

>>7337896
C'mon, give me a break. Being a fucking racist is different than disagreeing with a point of view.

Although, granted, this guy does seem like the person who does that sort of thing.

[Anonymous No.7337937]

>>7337924
is there anything more transparent than passive aggressive brown girl jokes?

[Anonymous No.7337942]

>>7337921
Dunno. Honestly I don't even think Lovecraft was a good writer and think there are those far more worthy of being the image of it, but changing it because of his racism is retarded.

[Anonymous No.7337944]

>>7337936
>Being a fucking racist is different than disagreeing with a point of view.
no it isn't

[Anonymous No.7337945]

>>7337892

That trophy looks more like a punishment than a reward anyway.

[Anonymous No.7337946]

>>7337936
>a fucking racist

Back to reddit

[Anonymous No.7337948]

>>7337926
>>7337930
OK, I have the perfect candidate. How about a bust after Scheherazade, the Arab storyteller Queen from 1001 Nights?

Not white, not male and even not existent. She is perfect.

[Anonymous No.7337949]

>>7337945
+1 Upvote

[Anonymous No.7337950]

>>7337936
Loaded language doesn't add anything to your point.

[Anonymous No.7337951]

>>7337944
Okay, you're right. That was actually a dumb thing for me to type. I meant on moral grounds there's a difference.
>>7337946
I mean, he was racist.

[Anonymous No.7337953]

>World Fantasy Award winners are chosen by a panel of judges
>Winners are chosen from groups of nominees (generally five or six per category), also selected largely by the judges, with two picked by members of the annual WFC. The World Fantasy Awards thus differ significantly in administration from other notable genre awards, such as Hugos or Nebulas. For the Hugos, the nominees and winners are chosen solely by members of the World Science Fiction Convention, while the Nebulas are awards for authors chosen by authors, specifically members of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. Thus neither the Hugos nor Nebulas have overseeing judges.

[Anonymous No.7337954]

>>7337929
Take your shitty memes to /g/ and don't hang yourself :-) .
>>7337890
>Twitter

[Anonymous No.7337955]

>>7337936
>Being a fucking racist is different than disagreeing with a point of view.
It's not, but I want to hear you're reasoning. Explain why opinions about race qualify as something other than opinion because they are about race.

[Anonymous No.7337956]

>>7337896
>people I don't like are winning the Hugo award
>ITS A CONSPIRACY

[Anonymous No.7337958]

>>7337954
fuck off mira

[Anonymous No.7337960]

In other news: irrelevant award becomes even more irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.7337962]

>>7337955
See
>>7337951

I messed up. I meant that disagreeing over, say, the quality of a book contains a significant difference morally than disagreeing over whether or not we should ENSLAVE BLACK PEOPLE.

[Anonymous No.7337966]

>>7337934
Work on your bait-making skills next time. I assume the next step of your master plan is to attack that post when the IP count gets high enough.

>>7337942
Lovecraft isn't a good writer but he was an influential one. If they want to change it, I have no qualms about it but doing it because he wrote a poem about how black people are lesser is dumb.

>>7337948
>Scheherazade
It's Shahrazad, you racist!
>bust
Misogynistic fuck!

[Anonymous No.7337970]

>>7337951
wait was he a racist or a fucking racist?

[Anonymous No.7337972]

>>7337962
Please, please go back to reddit, buzzfeed, tumblr or whatever other shitty SJW website you're currently vacationing from.

[Anonymous No.7337976]

>>7337962
Ah, I see.

[Anonymous No.7337977]

>>7337972
Please, please go back to /pol/ or stormfront or whatever other "racial realist" website you're currently vacationing from.

[Anonymous No.7337979]

>>7337966
I wasn't really trying to bait--more satire than anything. Kind of like when people write "DELETE THIS."

[Anonymous No.7337983]

>>7337890
It is unspeakable horror! I'm going to jump out of the window to escape this UNFATHOMABLE MADNESS!
>>7337901
>if we change things, we better make it a black person this time bcuz otherwize tumblr will be mad ;-)
We do nothing out of appreciation of art. We do all out of vapid ideological nonsense based on skewed perceptions of history.

[Anonymous No.7337984]

>>7337977
>go back to 4chan

Yeah, nah.

[Anonymous No.7337985]

>>7337958
It's easy to spot her, isn't it? She's even more annoying than Tao.

[Anonymous No.7337986]

Brown Nobodies Angry About Whites, Again

Chingchong McDingle reporting

A shocking turn of events today as some brown person on a college campus said that brown people should get more free money, and that white people should stop being so competent so that brown people can catch up. A number of brown people chimed in to agree. "Bix nood mup da doo didda muhfuggen bum tickley," said Gahanjit Mahajpur, whose ancestors were muck farmers in southern Vvardenfell. "Muh programs kill whitey bix nood. Your country will adapt to service us." Rachel Weinberg, junior associate assistant temp professor of AIDS Culture Studies at NYU, was even more damning, denouncing everything ever done by white people throughout history, except all the bits that benefit brown people. "Oy veyyy, how dare white people invent the novel and short story and narrative prose fiction, landmarks of self-expression in the history of human consciousness, and then dare to read and write whatever they like! Don't they know they only invented those things so brown people could use them?" The dean of the university was unavailable for comment, having been lynched and hanged by a diverse mob for dithering momentarily on which politically correct jargon was appropriate to the situation.

快乐中国新年
赞美真主

[Anonymous No.7337997]

And people wonder why the Sad Puppies exist. Muh feelings over history. Sorry that no black tranny writers pioneered your genre back when societal norms didn't expect women to vote.

[Anonymous No.7338000]

>>7337986

Made me chuckle sensibly, well done.

[Anonymous No.7338001]

>>7337924
kinda racist desu

[Anonymous No.7338003]

>>7337983
ideology is headed for collapse we just need to ride it out

[Anonymous No.7338005]

>>7337985
>>7337958
How would mira know about /g/-memes?

[Anonymous No.7338007]

>>7337986
Stalepasta/10

[Anonymous No.7338033]

>>7337890
>fantasy

So what?

[Anonymous No.7338036]

reminder that this man is the world's foremost scholar on lovecraft

[Anonymous No.7338037]

Why are lovecraft haters always the most retarded?

[Anonymous No.7338044]

It was almost the same thing when orson Scott card said he didn't agree with gay marriage. Suddenly the uneducated feel this is grounds to discount his work. Troll harder, spades. Your writing just isn't on par with whitey

[Anonymous No.7338055]

>>7337890
>One of those writers was the World Fantasy award winner Nnedi Okorafor, who discovered Lovecraft’s racist 1912 poem On the Creation of Niggers following her win, and blogged about how “conflicted” it made her feel. “A statuette of this racist man’s head is in my home. A statuette of this racist man’s head is one of my greatest honours as a writer,”

>mfw this has been know for years

[Anonymous No.7338064]

>>7337890
>>/tg/

[Anonymous No.7338065]

>>7338055
I'm just imagining her staring at it resentfully every single day but also refusing to take it down because it's the peak of her career

[Anonymous No.7338073]

>>7338036
wtf......... he's BROWN!!!

[Anonymous No.7338079]

The problem with literature written about minorities and women is that the subject matter is centered on being a minority or woman 99% of the time. That's why it's shit. But look at the flashes of brilliance like Connie Willis for instance. Quality writer and her work isn't based on the premise of having a vagina. Check out the list of accolades. You don't see her getting all butthurt

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Willis

[Anonymous No.7338081]

>>7338055

I have never been able to find info on this poem. just the poem itself

Does anyone know if this was actually ever published? Or is it something that was dug up after he died?

[Anonymous No.7338083]

>>7338073
Indian

[Anonymous No.7338098]

SJW's are proto fascists who want censor everything that hurts their feelings.

This is a weird turn around, because it used to be the right wing evanglicals calling for book censorship and such, but now the liberals have gone insane.

This psychotic new world we live in only one man can save us

[Anonymous No.7338100]

>>7338081
probably a jewish hoax

[Anonymous No.7338112]

>>7338098
What a nice platitude.

[Anonymous No.7338113]

>>7337935
No. While scholars may not appreciate that particular use for an ellipsis, many other people do. And language, simply speaking, is about conveying messages and information. That use of an ellipsis is used to convey a pause nowadays. It's totally valid.

inb4 "hurr durr but muh English degree!"

[Anonymous No.7338119]

>>7338113
It's not about scholarly appreciation, it's about the fact that people who use ellipses are mostly pretentious fucks who are trying too hard to convey their emotions with text.

[Anonymous No.7338129]

>>7338119
>Pretentious fucks
Or, you know, people who actually like to have people read their text correctly. Written language, by nature, has been flawed in that it tended not to display emotion correctly. Pauses like that help in delivery on the sendee's part and understanding on the receiver's part.

I'm sorry you feel like only pretentious fucks use ellipses this way, but your opinion is very much in the minority of how people use them nowadays. Language evolves, and this is just another evolution of language. Sorry not sorry.

[Anonymous No.7338140]

>>7338081
Apparently there is a hectographed copy, an early type of photocopy, presumably of the typewritten original. Probably just meant as a joke between friends. How many niggers and fags of the future might have their legacy ruined when some of their internet shitposting gets linked to them by a plucky internet archivist.

[Anonymous No.7338143]

>>7338098
There is literally nothing wrong with censorship

[Anonymous No.7338144]

>>7338129
it makes you sound like a fag though

[Anonymous No.7338146]

>>7338144
OK...?

[Anonymous No.7338147]

>>7338143
delete your post, it offends me

[Anonymous No.7338148]

>>7338140
internet activism is coming to an end tbqh

[Anonymous No.7338153]

>>7338140
So it was never actually published in a collection?

If so that is fucking retarded.
And yes, exactly what I was thinking, If you looked through all these sjw's notes you might find something never intended to see light.

Social justice is reminding me of homophobia in the south. The person yelling about it the most is probably sucking dicks in the bathroom.

[Anonymous No.7338161]

>>7338129
Yes language evolves and it is also bastardised. But what..what we have here is a shitty attempt to add drama to your lifeless prose. Instead of writing to be read you end up writing to be acted and acted by the worst kind of ham actor, pausing to add false gravitas to commonplace thoughts. You should work to state your point objectively, then you wouldn't need the histrionics.

[Anonymous No.7338162]

>>7338144
>it makes you sound like a fag
Man, if only every debate could be settled by subjective bullshit opinions.

Ellipses used for pauses in text enhance the way written language is understood, get over it. No amount of "fag sound" changes the fact that it actually adds something to the emotionless wall of text that is our language.

[Anonymous No.7338163]

>>7338148
Why do you think so?

[Anonymous No.7338177]

>>7338153
It has been published in this book, but long after Lovecraft died.

[Anonymous No.7338180]

>>7337966
Dont forget about appropriating other cultures

[Anonymous No.7338184]

>>7338055
>paranoid SJW hack author lives alone with her cats, in an ancient and stately manor house of late 18th century type
>walks by her mantle every dreary morning and stares at the statue of Lovecraft perched there, its somewhat oversized features and inhuman contours vaguely grotesque to the eye
>sometimes she swears she feels its eyes still at her back as she passes on, a hideous foreboding feelings that creeps up her spine and sets her shoulders on edge
>what's more, each time she examines it, the statue's expression seems to have changed; just enough to merit notice, but sufficiently slight as to dissuade a rational mind from such fantastic thoughts
>the noxious presence gets stronger and stronger with time, even emitting an eerie phosphorescence on some humid, summer nights, until she can feel its demonic miasma suffocating her, enveloping her while she tweets about white privilege on the toilet
>finally, in a fit of desperation, her mind frayed and exhausted by the abominable dreams which have come to visit her each night, she marches to the statue, with indefatigable purpose
>shouting with all the strength still left at her command, she confronts the bust of lovecraft, whose presence seems to fill the room, and whose gaze now seems squarely fixed on its swarthy interlocutor
>though minutes pass, there is no answer
>turning to leave, perhaps even to leave that once-forgotten place for good, she hears the unmistakable utterance of a new englander's tongue from the mantle behind her
>"Nigger"

[Anonymous No.7338187]

>>7337933
Like that other guy said you are using ellipsis in a fucking retarded way where the desired effect could be achieved with different punctuation.

You think you are implying a pause but really your ellipses are implying a slur like someone going into a coma.

Learn to use dashes.

>but thi s . . . s . . .s . . . t . . . his is okay

stop.

[Anonymous No.7338197]

>>7338177
Thanks.

I was wondering if he ever published it himself, the fact that this information is never contained with the criticism strikes me as very dishonest.

[Anonymous No.7338198]

>>7338163
people are tired of it
left in general is in crisis

[Anonymous No.7338213]

>>7337892

While I wholeheartedly disagree with the reasoning, holy fuck that trophy is atrocious and a crime against aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.7338219]

>>7338213
While we're at it can we also remove all of Nabokov's accolades cause he was a twat?

[Anonymous No.7338222]

>>7338219
>>7338213
Sorry friend, I meant not to reply.

[Anonymous No.7338224]

>>7337933
>life a century ago is like life today

top revisionism .

[Anonymous No.7338227]

>>7338187
why the fuck do you care some anon is suing bad grammar on an indonesian cartoon board........

step....off!??

[Anonymous No.7338231]

>>7338079
you have any particular recommendations from her?

[Anonymous No.7338236]

>>7337890

Is morality determined by the times? If it is wrong today, wouldn't it be wrong a century ago?

[Anonymous No.7338237]

how were lovecraft's views in anyway unique for his time? are we to erase a century's worth of literature because people didn't think the way we do now? are we to discount plato and aristotle from discussion on philosophy on the grounds that they held ignorant views on women?
tl;dr why are coloreds so butt hurt?

[Anonymous No.7338242]

>>7338237

No one is discrediting the work.

[Anonymous No.7338243]

>>7338161
Well there's the thing, English is a language of nuances. So much so that one could argue written English is a completely different language from verbal English. When speaking, there are different amounts of emphasis placed on different words, which sometimes completely changes the meaning of the sentence. Tone is very important. My point is that ellipses help to get rid of a bit of the ambiguity that surrounds written English, to help it connect better with verbal English.

But I will agree that the formula of "word... same word" is really stupid. As you said, it becomes ham acting and unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.7338247]

>>7338242
maybe not in this instance but it's an increasingly common line of thought

[Anonymous No.7338264]

>>7337997
The issue isn't him being white, though, it's him being hilariously racist. There are plenty of other writers from his time (or earlier) that didn't have such shitty views, plus they had more influence on fantasy.

[Anonymous No.7338273]

Three things spring to mind.

1) Lovecraft lived during a time when racism was acceptable. Yeah, it was starting to wane, but segregation was still the norm in many parts of his country and holding the views he held would not have been out of the norm. Holding him to a 21st Century moral standard is as stupid as wondering why Paul Revere didn't just send out a mass text informing all his buddies that the British were coming. It's okay to be aghast at the actions of people in the past, it's not okay to judge them for it.

2) Putting aside the whole artist/art thing, I can't think of any other authors who have had as huge an impact on the genre as Lovecraft had. I don't think that even Tolkein has had as wide a cultural impact as Lovecraft has had on the modern scene. Nominating Butler for the trophy replacement is an atrocious case of kneejerk reactionism. Although her prose is Wolfe-tier and her stories are pretty great, Butler's impact on the genre is puny compared to the pundits and megastars of the genre. Tolkein, Howard and Lewis all spring to mind as suitable replacements, and they probably won't get a sniff because 'muh dead old white men.'

3) If I ever win one I'm asking if anyone wants to swap it for a Lovecraft bust during the acceptance speech. Fuck this political bullshit.

[Anonymous No.7338275]

>>7338236
1. Yes
2. No (see 1)

[Anonymous No.7338277]

>>7337986
bretty good

[Anonymous No.7338290]

Here's the poem that's pretty much considered his most blatantly racist shit:

>When, long ago, the gods created Earth
>In Jove's fair image Man was shaped at birth.
>The beasts for lesser parts were next designed;
>Yet were they too remote from humankind.
>To fill the gap, and join the rest to Man,
>Th'Olympian host conceiv'd a clever plan.
>A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure,
>Filled it with vice, and called the thing a Nigger.

As a SJW twat, it's the sorta racist that doesn't seem like the casual "it was a different time" sort of shit, but the active and paranoid racism that consumes people who jerk off zero or twenty times a week. It's bad enough in my mind that when I his read his other shit where race is mentioned but without racism, I can't help but wonder if he was holding back. Like, he's racist like your average libertarian, where that shit gets brought up in conversation where it's totally inappropriate, and it poisons his ability to reason.

Honestly it's a real disappointment that stinks through everything he wrote. I say that as a fan. I feel like he was a girlfriend who I found out was cheating on me, and every time you think about some good time you had together, the thought occurs, "was she thinking about the other guy then?" You read Call of Cthulu, and every time there's a black character, you think, "did he think they were subhuman then?"

[Anonymous No.7338297]

>>7338236
1. No.
2. Yes (see 1).

[Anonymous No.7338298]

>>7338197
Why would publishing matter? It's being used as evidence that he personally was racist. Would you disqualify someone's diary as evidence of what they believe on the grounds that it's unpublished?

[Anonymous No.7338299]

>>7338290
>You read Call of Cthulu, and every time there's a black character, you think, "did he think they were subhuman then?"

That's idiotic on several levels.

[Anonymous No.7338300]

>>7338290
I genuinely feel sorry for you.

[Anonymous No.7338302]

Charles Dickens betrayed his wife, took her children and called her crazy.
Gandhi had good opinions about Hitler and Mussolini
Churchill spoke ill of africans in a way that really made him sound like Hitler

Thomas Edison was a thief a bully who took the merit of all the inventions that came from his research lab full of inventors

You can find something awful about any US president of the at least last 50 years I am certain.

Maybe the truth is that people are not perfect, they have flaws and we might not even like them but to let that prejudicate the way we judge their works is falling into the "ad hominem" fallacy.

[Anonymous No.7338304]

>>7338119
The most famous user of the ellipses was Celine, who wrote in the most common tongue imaginable. Fuck you and read a book

[Anonymous No.7338307]

>>7338302
>Thomas Edison was a thief a bully who took the merit of all the inventions that came from his research lab full of inventors
Don't forget that he once killed an elephant for fun. Didn't he realise they'd be endangered in 2015?!

[Anonymous No.7338308]

>>7338213
I'm the opposite. I definitely see the point of not naming a prize after him, but I kind of like the googly eyed monster trophy. It also looks a bit like Adorno to me.

[Anonymous No.7338310]

>>7338307
kej

[Anonymous No.7338314]

>>7338302
Nice platitude. They're not judging his works though. They want an award to cease having an affiliation with him.

[Anonymous No.7338325]

>>7338300
They call it Dworkin's curse

>>7338302
Dickens never wrote poems about how awesome it is to leave children destitute. Regarding ghandi, pic related. Churchill was a bastard and his Nazi smashing needs to be considered with his racism. Anyway, it was Stalin's armies that actually cornered Hitler and got him to commit suicide, and that doesn't mean we all have to embrace Stalinism, right?

>Muh tesla

We can still say people are shitty within a historical context. I don't feel like I'm not even going to never read Lovecraft again. I mean shit, I can enjoy everything from Hitchens to the S.C.U.M. Manifesto, but it's important to take Lovecraft within the context of his paranoid racism.

[Anonymous No.7338326]

>>7338112
>>7338314
Do you mean it or is the new "one word to dismiss them all" like edgy?

>>7338314
I see the guy in OP's pic doing just that, plus I am sure we could find some fault in whatever writer they may choose next

>Hemingway
oh he was a drunkard and if the FBI stalked him it probably meant he was a commie!

[Anonymous No.7338329]

>"Last year’s winner, Sofia Samatar ... believed the statue should not represent one person." - Guardian Article.

Well that's the solution right there. The trophy shouldn't be changed from Lovecraft to Tolkein or Butler, it should be changed from Lovecraft to a neutral object.

Suggestions? I'm thinking a wizard hat.

[Anonymous No.7338330]

>>7337909
I've been reading Parable of the Sower and it's pretty good so far. I dunno if I'd call it a classic though.

[Anonymous No.7338344]

>>7337972
>Stop censoring opinions of people who are considered racist!!!!
>People that disagree with me should stop posting and leave.

pick one

[Anonymous No.7338345]

>>7337909
She's pretty good, definitely above average. Unfortunately she's massively overrated because muh strong WoC. The idea that she's better or more iconic than Tolkien or Leiber or any of a dozen other authors is absurd and that her name is even being mentioned for the matte in question is just garden variety manic Negro ethnocentrism.

Also every one of her novels that I can actually name without looking on Wikipedia is clearly SF, not fantasy.

[Anonymous No.7338354]

>>7338344
>dat tu quoque
Just because he's acting in a contrary manner in regards to his own rule doesn't mean his point is invalid.

[Anonymous No.7338359]

>>7338326
I mean it. Those posts encapsulate the definition of platitude. You're not convincing anyone here because most everyone thinks this as well. If you think you're being original by saying that the actions of artists shouldn't be taken into the consideration of their art or that no one is perfect, you're not.

What a couple stupid people tweet doesn't really matter. Their argument is that because of a racist poem he wrote, an award should not be affiliated with him. It's dumb, sure, but you're focusing on the wrong thing.

[Anonymous No.7338361]

>>7338036
Not only that, but he laid the smackdown on Older and the likes of him many times since this issue was raised. I expect him to write another BTFO piece today.

Lovecraft's thoughts about blacks might have been pretty bad, but he never actually hurt or contributed to hurting them.

[Anonymous No.7338362]

>>7338005
Her fuckbuddy yells things like "This is for Richard Em Stallman, you talentless beaner slut!" while he rails her from behind and refers to her clitoris as an "open-source kernel".

[Anonymous No.7338364]

>>7338184
pretty good

[Anonymous No.7338371]

>>7338290
Lovecraft appears to have hated/feared literally anyone who wasn't the 1920s equivalent of a fedora-tipper. I'm not sure why you're so butthurt that he didn't like Negros anymore than he liked salt-of-the-earth farmers, salesmen, or people who lived in villages in New England.

[Anonymous No.7338378]

>>7338290
Most of his works are based on xenophobia, be it Call of Chtulhu or Shadow over Innsmouth. His opinion on blacks was written as the picture of fish-people, for example. And you're disturbed by some little nigger verse? Either you don't understand Lovecraft's prose or you don't understand racism.

[Anonymous No.7338379]

>>7338290
>Racist like a libertarian.

How are they racist?

[Anonymous No.7338381]

>>7338290
>I feel like he was a girlfriend who I found out was cheating on me
I feel like you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.7338387]

>>7338162
yeah it adds gaydom

[Anonymous No.7338402]

>>7338273
>Tolkein
Opinion descarted.

[Anonymous No.7338408]

>>7338379
They aren't, he's so used to talking in an echo chamber that the idea that anyone who disagrees with him isn't bad is alien.

Consider that a man who had an enormous impact upon literature and culture is having his name dragged through the mud because he said mean things about niggers yet no one actually examines why saying bad things about niggers is bad.

[Anonymous No.7338421]

>>7338329
And this year's butt-plug award for the most arse-clenchingly compacted shit goes to...

[Anonymous No.7338422]

>>7338378
Neither of the cited works have anything to do with xenophobia. No, part of Cthulhu's cult being made up of blacks doesn't mean that he literally thought that unga bungas would destroy humanity.
Now if you mentioned The Street, it would be another story.

[Anonymous No.7338425]

>>7337901
>acclaimed writer
>Octavia Butler
Who?

I don't mean this in an attacking manner. I should recognize the author who all other authors are compared to even if I'm not interested in their genre or subgenre. Lovecraft inspired hundreds of pieces of fiction. I have never read his work, he died young, and he died decades ago, yet I still see teenagers spouting "CTHULHU FHGTAN" like it is a Japanese honorific. By virtue of not knowing who this person is, I assume that they have had little impact on culture compared to Lovecraft, because I would have heard of them. I'm not saying that their work is bad, it's just that it hasn't had any significance to warrant being weighed as the new Official Kilogram.

[Anonymous No.7338437]

>>7338290
Tbh only oppressed minorities think like this.

He probably wrote the poem because "filled it with vice, and called the thing a nigger" is a funny line.


I will go so far as to say his work plays on an exotic romanticism which was still the only real way of thinking about "others" back then and have little to no racism in it at all.

[Anonymous No.7338439]

>>7338422
Shadow over Innsmouth is literally a tale of beings who look like humans but are actually different, and hostile to humans. And towards whom humans must be hostile as well. This is what xenophobia is. It's by no means exclusive to hating blacks by whites.

[Anonymous No.7338444]

>>7338439
>who look like humans but are actually different, and hostile to humans.
That's not fully accurate, is it? Actual Deep Ones don't look like humans, people with the Innsmouth Look are just on a transitory phase. You might interpret it as a tale of "be careful who you fug", but although the theme is present the story is not about that.
>And towards whom humans must be hostile as well.
With the implication that it's not going to do anything.

[Anonymous No.7338457]

>>7338444
The heroes of the story are half-breeds who look more or less human, though. All the interaction of the main character happens with them, except tor the last part where he flees the city. This actually fits the xenophobia theme pretty well, as he discovers that those who he thought were humans are, in fact, not. Even the part where they smell bad fits, since such physiological triggers are common to cause disgust. And since blacks are known to smell oddly for whites.

[Anonymous No.7338464]

>>7338290
it was probably just an edgy joke lol
like carving a swastika into a school desk
racism's coming back in a big way so you should prepare for that instead

[Anonymous No.7338483]

>>7338184
And from that stately bust of Lovecraft quoth the raven

[Anonymous No.7338493]

Guys I just realized that Microsoft paint is racist.

Look, if you draw a stick figure, because the background (which is a social construct) is white, my stick figure is AUTOMATICALLY white by default.

If i want to make a brown stick figure I must enact the LABOR of going into alternative colors and selecting a new color and then filling in the features of my stick figure.

[Anonymous No.7338500]

>>7338275
>>7338297

Why? Care to elaborate?

[Anonymous No.7338515]

>>7337890

Lovecraft is an annoying pop culture meme who I'd be glad to see fade into relative obscurity

But at the same time Lovecraft wasn't putting nigger notches in his belt or leading KKK rallies. The fact that people are being openly judged on opinions rather than the merits of the work or their actions is unsettling and speaks to the direction we're heading as a society.

[Anonymous No.7338519]

>>7338379
They hold everyone to the same standard.
>libertarian: everyone is an individual who should be judged on personal merit
>ethnofascist: we are a people united by blood and must fight for our tribe as all tribes do
>liberal: we must commit suicide. everyone may be ethnofascist aside from europeans. when we europeans mention our identity--which doesn't "really exist"--we must concede we are a dogshit people who have created nothing of value and are uniquely ethically inferior and sociopathic, having brought only misery and death to earth through colonialism. we are to surrender our resources and women to the brown invaders until we are completely destroyed.

[Anonymous No.7338532]

>>7338493
>>7338493
Interesting find my friend. We should standardize all canvases as brown and yellow to promote equality

[Anonymous No.7338541]

>>7338515
While I don't enjoy the memery, I'm pretty sure they also got some people into actually reading his work.

[Anonymous No.7338542]

i don't know what this award is but they shouldn't ignore cultural context of people. People like the author in the OP must hate and reject nearly every single person in history. That's petty, these things could be ignored in favor of the relevant things they really offered.

[Anonymous No.7338565]

>>7338541
>be 14
>want to get into reading to impress a qt lit girl I talked to online
>know about Lovecraft from Cthulu meming, decide to buy his complete work
>"wow, why do people like this? I guess reading just isn't for me"

Luckily I found Dune in the library a few weeks later, or my love of reading would be dead before it even began. I didn't realize until a couple years later that Lovecraft just sucks.

[Anonymous No.7338569]

>>7337890
Kind of silly, but he was a hack writer anyway

>dear god it's soooo scary
>I can't even describe how scary this is
>trust me it's the scariest shit

[Anonymous No.7338579]

>>7338361
source?

[Anonymous No.7338582]

>The organic things–Italo-Semitico-Mongoloid–inhabiting that awful cesspool could not by any stretch of the imagination be call’d human. They were monstrous and nebulous adumbrations of the pithecanthropoid and amoebal; vaguely moulded from some stinking viscous slime of earth’s corruption, and slithering and oozing in and on the filthy streets or in and out of windows and doorways in a fashion suggestive of nothing but infesting worms or deep-sea unnameabilities.

[Anonymous No.7338584]

>>7338565
Having been into reading since I was 6, I personally think Dune is shit. Pretty cool universe though.
So, it's like, just our opinions man.

[Anonymous No.7338589]

>>7338493
I wouldn't be surprised if I see a salon article on this later today or tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.7338595]

>>7338569
It's funny because it actually worked though.

[Anonymous No.7338597]

>>7338579
Source for what? That Lovecraft never actually did anything against the people he professed hate against?
Are you dumb?

[Anonymous No.7338598]

Plebs gonna pleb

[Anonymous No.7338599]

>>7338584
I can't bring myself to call it shit because it was the first book I really connected with, but it's not as great as I thought it was when I was 14.

[Anonymous No.7338600]

>>7337890
Huh.
>Spend more time complaining about using the image and name of a very popular fantasy writer than about writing good fantasy
Explains why I haven't seen a decent fantasy novel in 2 decades

[Anonymous No.7338605]

>>7338597
No, the source for S.T. Joshi responses, you cretin.

[Anonymous No.7338609]

>>7337890

>Fuck. Yeah.

I really dislike this annoying way of talking.

[Anonymous No.7338610]

>>7338600
First step is to remove all the literature of the past.
Then you write new stuff, and since there's nothing to compare it to, it's 10/10.

[Anonymous No.7338613]

>>7338605
His blog of course, you fapass dunkstick.
http://stjoshi.org/news2014.html
Start from August 16, 2014 and move up.

[Anonymous No.7338618]

>>7337890
>>7337901
WE LITERATURE NOW

[Anonymous No.7338620]

>>7337933
anon, i suggest you use the emdash (—) in the future when you want to indicate a contemplative pause in your prosaic stream of consciousness :)

[Anonymous No.7338632]

>>7337890
My father retired to be an editor for academic journals and went to conventions for all sorts of writers for decades. He told me a few things
1)
>"80% of all people have nothing in their heads worth saying out loud. Another 10% are as crazy as a shithouse rat"
twitter proves his insight
2)
>"I have no idea why a moron that writes a book about ratmen from venus thinks he knows anything about religion, politics, the military, economics, or how to run a country but by God I have yet to meet a science iction writer that wasn't convinced he was the smartest, most well-read man who ever drew breath. Half the fantasy writers that aren't religious are just as bad"
3)
"The only writers a decent person can stand to be around are the ones that only want to be a writer. There are too many that wish they were something else, usually a politician, and they are about the most obnoxious people in the world"
My dad was seldom wrong

[Anonymous No.7338637]

Is there a more disgusting group of people than progressives?

[Anonymous No.7338640]

>>7338618
>mfw they find out I can't read or write

[Anonymous No.7338645]

>>7337901
>Octavia Butler
Literally who?
I mean, sure - I don't read much fantasy *at a;;* but I have heard of Tolkien, Lewis, Lovecraft, and Moorcock.

[Anonymous No.7338647]

>>7338645
black woman. thats who

[Anonymous No.7338652]

>>7338632
>"The only writers a decent person can stand to be around are the ones that only want to be a writer. There are too many that wish they were something else, usually a politician, and they are about the most obnoxious people in the world"

This is true for most any profession.

The people that occupy spaces that they don't wish to be in, while romanticizing or venerating others, are usually woefully blind to the actual reality of both their current position, and the ones they wish to be in, and of course, most people are fucking retards that should be liquefied for fertilizer.

[Anonymous No.7338655]

>>7337898
Bitch, half of all of Greek art was made for the sake of winning trophies and accolades.

[Anonymous No.7338659]

>>7338655
but all the greatest greek sculptures slipped into obscurity and are therefore now lost

[Anonymous No.7338663]

I'm just glad we can start leaving racists like Lovecraft in the dust bin of history. There's no reason racists like him should still be celebrated today.

[Anonymous No.7338668]

>>7338663

Yeah it feels good to be on the right side of history in the current year.

[Anonymous No.7338671]

>>7338645
Hadn't heard of her either but, she's a sci-fi writer, not fantasy. Which makes the entire issue stupider.

[Anonymous No.7338685]

Are they even trying to pretend they picked a black author based on the merit of her work and not over the fact that she was black?

[Anonymous No.7338690]

>>7338668
TWENTY FOFTEEN racists btfo mark it on your calendars and tell your wife's black babies when they're old enough

[Anonymous No.7338701]

I drew a swastika out of dicks the other day when i was bored. Here's hoping the morality police don't find it after I die and rewrite all my life's psychological motivations in relation to it.

[Anonymous No.7338706]

Why can't people into historical context. Yes lovecraft was a racist, but he was racist 100 years ago when the majority of the world was racist. It would be like vilifying Martin Luther King Jr because he didn't support gays.

[Anonymous No.7338710]

>>7338685
The WFA committee just caved in to "pressure", but of course they never stopped to evaluate whether Butler is actually fit for the award or not.
I redirected this >>7338605 anon, but I should incite everyone to do the same:

READ THIS
http://stjoshi.org/news2014.html

Start from August 16, 2014 and move up.

[Anonymous No.7338715]

>>7338500
Seems fairly self-evident to me. Morality is a social code telling people what's right or wrong. Different groups of people in different times have had different codes, eg for some groups keeping slaves might be OK while dudes sexing up dudes is horribly immoral, while in modern western society generally the reverse is true.

[Anonymous No.7338718]

>>7338706
Not naming an award after someone =/= vilifying

[Anonymous No.7338720]

>>7337933

[Anonymous No.7338727]

>>7338329
The Man Booker trophy is probably the least offensive thing to non-silicon based life forms ever.

[Anonymous No.7338728]

>>7338706
Did he outright oppose gays?

It´d be fun to bring it out to the SJWs and see what happens.

[Anonymous No.7338735]

>>7338718
Would you think removing MLKjr's name from anything he is associated with, on the grounds he was a homophobe, is okay?

[Anonymous No.7338736]

>>7338727
>The Man Booker trophy is probably the least offensive thing to non-silicon based life forms ever.

>Man Booker
>Man
triggerede right there, senpai

[Anonymous No.7338739]

was he really a racist? was re-reading 2 compilations with his stories recently and the feeling when he d talk about villains of different race was that he has some prejudice...but he never develops it in his prose from what i can say.

[Anonymous No.7338748]

>>7337901
I m 40, spent my entire life reading SF,,,and sorry, but who is this?

[Anonymous No.7338753]

>>7337948
this really does undermine existence privilege in the world of letters

[Anonymous No.7338754]

It's just the start.

Watch as they retroactively take away Tolkien's awards for being a suspected racist.

[Anonymous No.7338755]

lol you guys read fantasy

[Anonymous No.7338756]

>>7338727
>Man (sexist also implies sexes exist)
>Booker (offensive to oral traditions)
>Blue (reinforcing the male association)
>2015AD (reinforcing eurocentric tyme systems, European time itself and Christianity and all the patriarchy that entails)
>Square (privileging hard cornered/measured/defined male geometry instead of the more liquid undefinable female shapes)

Uggh try again shitlord

Can you not?

[Anonymous No.7338759]

>>7337890
Good.

[Anonymous No.7338760]

>>7338735
Depends on how much of a homophobe he was, what the award is, etc. Thing is, you'd have a struggle on your hands because MLK is a hero to people for ethical/political reasons- he fought oppression and helped a lot of people get better lives. Afaik Lovecraft didn't do anything like that- he just wrote some interesting stories. Him being a racist isn't counterbalanced by being a tireless crusader for puppies with cancer or anything like that.

[Anonymous No.7338762]

>>7338079
she s not bad but brilliant is kinda an exaggeration

[Anonymous No.7338764]

I guess I'm OK with it. I seem to have the unique ability to separate a person's private life and views from their work, even though I've been told that doing so is to live in ignorance.
Either way, I asked a horror fan once how she reconciled her fondness of Lovecraft's work and her hatred of Orson Scott Card. She seemed unaware of Lovecraft's views, and then said "it's different because he's dead." At leas there's some consistency now.

[Anonymous No.7338767]

>>7338756
>someone thinks these ironic shitposts are funny

Step 1) Man up
Step 1) Stop reading genre fiction
Step 1) Stop shitposting

Yes, they're all step one; do them at the same time.

[Anonymous No.7338771]

>>7337962
>I meant that disagreeing over, say, the quality of a book contains a significant difference morally than disagreeing over whether or not we should ENSLAVE BLACK PEOPLE
Which is something Lovecraft never said.

[Anonymous No.7338772]

>>7338767
All literature is fiction.

[Anonymous No.7338783]

>>7338302
>Charles Dickens betrayed his wife, took her children and called her crazy.
Lightly awful
>Gandhi had good opinions about Hitler and Mussolini
Not awful
>Churchill spoke ill of africans in a way that really made him sound like Hitler
Not awful
>Thomas Edison was a thief a bully who took the merit of all the inventions that came from his research lab full of inventors
Not awful
>That reaction image
Pretty awful

[Anonymous No.7338784]

>>7338760
Its almost like you are saying one aspect of his life does not effect another, but you sunk this little normative operator "counterbalanced" in to get away from the conclusion.

[Anonymous No.7338787]

>>7338739
90% if not more of his racism is found in his letters.
He was indeed a racist, but he didn't embrace it as a cause. He would talk about it with his friends -none of whom were as hard on the issue as he was (and some were completely opposed to him)- in his letters, because he was an honest man. Consider that not even his ex-wife (a Jew) repudiated him even though he had gone on to rant about Jews in front of her. All those people showed much more greatness and intelligence than the whiners of today who just cling to the negative facet of Lovecraft's life and judge him based solely on that. Because those other people knew a very gentle, kind and helpful man who happened to act like /pol/tard at times instead of "le hate-filled man that was always angry and wanted to kill inferiors".

[Anonymous No.7338791]

I ain't even mad about this, really. I don't even care anymore. Genre literature, science fiction and fantasy especially, has become so diminished by left-leaning authors that it's hard to remember what drew me to it in the first place. These days it seems like every fucking story that comes to press is something to the tune of "what if in the future there were a gender reassignment laser, boy wouldn't things be great then btw I'm a trans author and this totally isn't a forced allegory about my own experiences :^)" or "What if in the future there were only black women because some unscientific mcguffin turned all whites and men into vampire stand ins and btw I'm a black woman and this is definitely not an allegory for my own ideologies :^)" or "What if in the future there were gay robots?"

I mean, fuck, I'm pretty darn left of center myself, but when can I go back to reading stories about weird technology, human consciousness, adventures in strange lands, and other hard SF shit instead of shitty, paper-thin allegories about the political cause du jour?

[Anonymous No.7338796]

Make the award a Cthulhu statuette. Show that the work and not the person is the important thing.

[Anonymous No.7338802]

to all those saying=waah, he wasn t that good to begin with: how many of the top-tier authors of the genre can you point that DID NOT point him as a major influence / inspiration?

[Anonymous No.7338810]

>>7338791
I would place myself to the left but I'll never think that pulling this kind of ideological stunt shit is excusable or appropriate. It's fine to allegorically talk about one's own experiences or even ideology (Lovecraft himself did the former a number of times quite remarkably, probably reaching zenith in The Outsider) as long as one is honest and assumes the personal nature of the writings.
But of course,
>responsibility
what a story Mark.

>>7338796
This.

>>7338802
Don't even bother, man.

[Anonymous No.7338815]

It's things like this that make me wonder if there's actually merit behind the conspiracy of society working to systematically eradicate white people.

[Anonymous No.7338816]

>>7338668
>mfw 'white man's burden' was a progressive, leftist ideology in its day
Right side of history indeed.

[Anonymous No.7338822]

>>7338772
>>>/getout/

[Anonymous No.7338826]

I think it's great that we are judging past cultures with modern thought

[Anonymous No.7338831]

But most people are racist (the standard term, not hate,supremacy or whatever), blacks won't even know in their lifetime
Do they get upset only if they see "nigger"?

[Anonymous No.7338832]

>>7338668
>>7338690
I'll give you both (being generous and assuming you're not a samefag) 24 hours to successfully explain why it's not valid to criticize an attitude/belief/whatever as being antiquated.

[Anonymous No.7338837]

>>7338735
Where's your source and citation?

[Anonymous No.7338846]

>>7338832
I'm pretty sure they're having a laff senpai

[Anonymous No.7338852]

>>7338832
Not them, but the writings of Lovecraft (that I've read) have literally invoked ZERO racist thought. Show me one glimpse of racism in "Call of Cthulhu" or "The Dunwich Horror." His stories are influential and far from "antiquated."

[Anonymous No.7338857]

>>7338816
White man's burden is still very real, it's merely mutated.

What do you think white guilt stems from? It's the reason sweden is keking themselves so hard: they believe they are superior to the point of destroying themselves to show how superior and progressive they are.

[Anonymous No.7338862]

>>7338832
You could say eating is antiquated too in a way

[Anonymous No.7338872]

>>7338857
btw - use "cool cold" instead of c u c k

[Anonymous No.7338873]

>>7338852
>Show me one glimpse of racism in "Call of Cthulhu"
Black cultists described negatively.
That's it, I tinkh.

Also I always found it curious that the most dangerous or deranged (or both) human characters in Lovecraft's works are always normal white boys (or former normal white boys, now mutated cannibal cults), but no critic ever says anything about that.

[Anonymous No.7338876]

>>7338826
>a prize given out every year is 'past cultures'
Que?

[Anonymous No.7338879]

>>7337896
it is pretty chilling actually

[Anonymous No.7338880]

>all these posts agreeing with this

my god you're a giant pack of faggots /lit/

[Anonymous No.7338884]

>>7338857
It really does have to do more with a messiah complex than it does with kindness
They say they "hate themselves", but as a person who midly hates himself I would never imagine me ever being ok with feeling good about being kind, it feels so wrong
I would blame the media, but this started way before tv

[Anonymous No.7338887]

>>7338884
*people say they

[Anonymous No.7338891]

>>7337902
This. Would not really care, except OF FUCKING COURSE it is SJWs changing it.

[Anonymous No.7338911]

>>7338784
Nah, the opposite really. I'm saying that if you're making someone a hero or villain, all positive and negative aspects of their life are relevant, because those are the things that people will care about. So even if he was a big nasty homophobe MLK will have a lot of defenders, and you'd have a fight on your hands. Lovecraft... nah. As far as I know there aren't any positive political acts or statements, so all you're left with on the political/ethical balance sheet is the racism.

I would agree with judging the work separately from the man, mind you, but I'd also argue that if you're naming an award after a guy and making the trophy his face, you've already gone beyond that and you're inviting discussion of the man.

[Anonymous No.7338927]

>>7338302
>Gandhi had good opinions about Hitler and Mussolini
Why not mention the fact that he slept naked with little girls and had coffee enemas?
Although I agree, racist and nationalist views are irrelevant, it's people that are cunts, pretty much. Culture is a thing, but then again it's pretty easy to change with decent media control.

[Anonymous No.7338929]

It doesn't matter what Lovecraft's opinions were or if a cartoon statuette of him made some pampered millenial fuckwit uncomfortable. The net tightens every year, everyone saying 'well I guess he was kinda racist I mean come on lol' will have the things they enjoy marked unacceptable sooner or later. I just wish people would stand up to these fucking drones, they have absolutely no real power yet they just keep getting their way.

[Anonymous No.7338931]

>>7338880
not our fault. /lit/ is one of the first places every pseudointellectual from twitter and tumblr go to because its more arch than other boards

[Anonymous No.7338961]

>>7338876
It's not about the prize. It's about in whose name it is. Lovecraft himself doesn't hand out the prize. He did his job, he wrote and died in poverty before black people could serve in the US Army. Because of the quality of his writing, people saw it fit to name an award in his honor. His views were views forged in his time, they cannot change, we shouldn't run him against modern standards the same way we wouldn't judge a Model 1 Ford to a Lamborghini, and we should look at them in the context of Jazz Age/Great Depression America rather than the Age of Google.

If they took his name off the award because quality standards rose, there would be no complaints. Instead they took it off because of his opinions.

[Anonymous No.7338971]

why did we teach black people to read again

[Anonymous No.7338973]

>>7338880
no one agrees with this

posts espousing support of this are made by subhumans who should be summarily executed

rise against, brother. \m/

[Anonymous No.7338975]

>>7338961
*Instead they took it off because of opinions he held a century ago.

[Anonymous No.7338986]

>>7338971
Same reason we taught white people, to distract them and give them the illusion of control. Don't kid yourself, you were the poor nigger of your country several hundred years before new niggers replaced you.

[Anonymous No.7338995]

any sensible person is disgusted by this

censorship and fascism it is

[Anonymous No.7339001]

>>7338822
ALL literature is fiction. Use your brain.

[Anonymous No.7339005]

Awards aren't there to reward merit but to pander to the customer base. Who'da thought it!

[Anonymous No.7339014]

>>7338986

>Literacy was spread as a conspiracy to keep people down

wew lad choke on your beret

[Anonymous No.7339026]

>>7338299
>>7338300
>>7338378
>>7338371
>>7338381
>>7338437

>being against people who are against racism
did you losers get beaten up by minorities or smth?

[Anonymous No.7339044]

>>7338162
Holy shit you're defensive.
Fuck you, fuck your ellipses and fuck your family. Go back to writing facebook statuses you headstrong mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.7339049]

>>7339026
I'm against racism but I'm also against people that are against Lovecraft. What'chu gon' do senpai.

[Anonymous No.7339054]

242 replies and the word "nigger" only appears 13 times...

[Anonymous No.7339055]

>>7339049
>I'm against racism

No shitposting from the shed Sven

[Anonymous No.7339060]

>>7339055
>Lovecraft fans can't be anti-raycis

[Anonymous No.7339062]

>>7337890
I don't know which is more appalling: that he thinks this is the appropriate way to combat racism, or "Fuck. Yeah."

[Anonymous No.7339064]

>>7339026
I'm against idiots, whether they're racist or anti-racist.

[Anonymous No.7339065]

>>7339049

I'm just against idiots in general, idiots like those that get lovecraft removed because of personal beliefs

complete retardation that is

anyone in support of that should feel some kind of shame

[Anonymous No.7339071]

>>7339065
>get lovecraft removed
no they don't, stop trying to make a case about muh free speech.

[Anonymous No.7339073]

>>7339071

and just what have they done

are you even capable of reading

[Anonymous No.7339074]

Hey girls and guys, just forget about that Lovecraft-guy for a moment; let's concentrate on something positive! Who's gonna win the World Fantasy Award next year? Should it be me? Have a nice, civil and non-racist discussion - and fun!

[Anonymous No.7339089]

>>7338515

His memory isn't going anywhere, it's just one specific organization deciding who they want to represent them.

Anyway, the guy in the OP tweet... he seems filled with vice. I'm reminded of a poem...

[Anonymous No.7339109]

>>7339074
>Should it be me?

Dude you're white. There's no way in hell you getting picked. We need to be as NOT RACIST as possible and pick a black guy. I don't care who, he just needs to be black.

[Anonymous No.7339112]

>>7339109

>guy

Are you fucking kidding me? Honestly you are trash lmao I can't even

[Anonymous No.7339134]

>>7338655
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Willis

But they held a totally different concept of victory and competition

[Anonymous No.7339240]

>>7338329
That's too phallic and there mysogonist, and if you turn it upside down it's like a vagina, therefore reducing women to nothing more but pieces of meat given away as awards, mysogonist shithead.

[Anonymous No.7339245]

>model used for trophy is changed from a racist hack
OH NO

OH THE HUMANITY

TRULY THIS IS THE WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED

[Anonymous No.7339290]

>>7338986
If we are the niggers of yesterday, who were the White people then?

[Anonymous No.7339293]

>>7339245
Lovecraft was hardly a "hack". Much less so than the nobody they're modelling it off now.

[Anonymous No.7339298]

>>7337933
>It's okay to call the fucker out on his racism

Guess we should just smash the 4 presidents on the rockface for their backwards views and behaviours as well.

[Anonymous No.7339315]

I don't think enough attention has been given to the way Older has written his tweet. Does he think he's from the 'hood or something?
More to the point, calling Lovecraft a "d-bag" is pretty funny because it's very probable that he was a much nicer person than Older is (not to mention much more polite), and has been significantly helpful to a much larger number of people. A racist, yes. A racist douchebag, no. Unless one maintains that these 2 necessarily have to go hand in hand, but whoever gets on that peak falls down the slippery slope.
Don't even get me started on the "overrated" bit.

>>7339245
>if he's racist he's automatically a hack

[Anonymous No.7339331]

>>7339298

It's already happening

[Anonymous No.7339341]

>>7339331
Oh good, a nuanced view of history and not an idol worship.

[Anonymous No.7339345]

>>7338880
/lit/ has been generally left-leaning for a while now.

This will soon be remedied.

[Anonymous No.7339367]

>>7339341
>nuanced view of history
>evil white males oppressing everyone else not white and male
These are the same sorts of people who would likely call you a racist if you pointed out just how fucking violent and barbaric and sexist Native American tribes actually were before white people colonized them.

[Anonymous No.7339374]

>>7339341

I have no idea what you're trying to say

[Anonymous No.7339398]

>we should place all merit in the arts on arbitrary social tides rather than influence
>>7338129
Use em-dashes you lazy cunt
>OMG ITS...UM...2015 DUDE...!

[Anonymous No.7339399]

>>7337933

you're a poison

people like you create worlds like that seen in Fahrenheit 451

[Anonymous No.7339466]

>>7338302

don't try and talk sense to a mob

[Anonymous No.7339536]

Made it through about half the thread.

The best response from a writer to criticism of their character was by Graham Green. His witty response to Papa Doc Duvalier's rant essentially amounted to saying: "With one exception I am, as you say, an asshole. So?"

Much of the best writing I have enjoyed was written by people I do not want to know personally. I think a closer study of one's favorite author makes for a sobering experience. The art remains, whatever hero worship as may falls by the wayside.

If they were serious about fixing this award thing, they would changeover to a trophy made of a stylized Cthulhu. The nature of this change celebrates the art without unduly emphasizing the artist. Maybe change it up each year with whatever vile or horrifying authorial construction they wish to favor. Now that would be a subtle admission, maintain the tradition, and be a truly creative celebration of the recipient and the genera.

[Anonymous No.7339549]

>>7339536
>If they were serious about fixing this award thing, they would changeover to a trophy made of a stylized Cthulhu. The nature of this change celebrates the art without unduly emphasizing the artist. Maybe change it up each year with whatever vile or horrifying authorial construction they wish to favor. Now that would be a subtle admission, maintain the tradition, and be a truly creative celebration of the recipient and the genera.

Get out of here with your reasonable middle ground.

[Anonymous No.7339558]

>>7339549

>the middle ground is automatically reasonable

These people should have been told to get fucked. If they don't like the trophy they don't have to accept it, the universe does not revolve around their feelings.

[Anonymous No.7339562]

>>7339245
>>>/tumblr/

[Anonymous No.7339582]

>>7338802
The point is that all genre-fiction is shit and that all genre-fiction authors are bad, retarded pleb.

[Anonymous No.7339583]

>>7339558
And the universe doesn't revolve around yours either. If the committee wants to change it away from Lovecraft because of a stupid reason, they can go ahead.

[Anonymous No.7339600]

>>7339583
>And the universe doesn't revolve around yours either

I knew someone was going to smug it up and come back with this. I'm not going around demanding anything be changed to suit my tastes, I'm just saying nothing good will come of all this pandering bullshit.Framing it like the committee 'wanted' this in the first place and I'm now the one telling them what to do is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.7339601]

>>7339549

Yeah, I hear ya.

Their fix was clearly created by a brain dead PC worshiping bureaucratic committee, instead of proper artists. This tells me all I need to know about the importance and true meaning of this award.

I've no problem with a change being made. This though, this just reeks of rigid ivory tower imposition of non-artists that is far worse than the original problem.

An uninspired paperweight purporting to celebrate the creative arts is an insult to the writers, not an award.

I'm done ranting though. Time to move on.

[Anonymous No.7339611]

>>7339293
isn't a hack just someone who writes for money?

[Anonymous No.7339618]

Lovecraft was not only extremely racist, but an atrocious writer. This is a victory for both politics and aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.7339620]

>>7339600
It's fucking stupid but it's already been decided. Why bother about a genre shit award?

I just don't understand why people care so much about trivialities.

[Anonymous No.7339621]

This is the sort of thing that is going to lead to a huge resurgence in racism in the near future.

[Anonymous No.7339628]

>>7339621

>near future

look around you dude

[Anonymous No.7339637]

>>7337983
ANCIENT CYCLOPEAN TERRORS

[Anonymous No.7339638]

>>7339290
The inbred pasty noblemen, most notably the house of Habsburg. They didn't even look human.

[Anonymous No.7339642]

Why are niggers and sjws so intent on censoring the world? Do they not realise that their crusade is no more noble than any other? No, they don't. No moralist has that kind of self awareness.

[Anonymous No.7339652]

>>7337986
fucking kek

[Anonymous No.7339656]

>>7339621
/pol/acks aren't (yet) representative of the real world, but I think you can see in them the beginnings of another authoritarian shift.

[Anonymous No.7339660]

It's important to note that the author who proposed this suggested that a statue of Cthulhu replace a bust of Lovecraft. While Cthulhu is certainly cringe-worthy memeshit, it's a legitimate response to giving a statue of a racist to people who are ostensibly not white.

[Anonymous No.7339670]

>>7339656

If you think /pol/ types are the authoritarian threat the next few years are going to bring some nasty surprises m8.

[Anonymous No.7339675]

>>7339660
Link? That's probably a decent idea even though Lovecraft is still not a good writer.

[Anonymous No.7339683]

>>7339670
What will it be, then? It seems to me that we'll tend towards either /pol/-style racial nationalism or "leftist" racial nationalism in the form of "social justice". Both of them are fairly authoritarian.

[Anonymous No.7339692]

>>7337890
>The World Fantasy award
I can't even pretend to be upset

[Anonymous No.7339706]

>>7339683
We'll have to be governed by social justice types who censor and eliminate anything deemed too white and male, before anything /pol/-like becomes mainstream. In Europe we'll probably be ruled my millitant Mohammedans who ban everything that they deem offensive.

[Anonymous No.7339713]

>>7339054
Seems a bit niggardly desu senpai

[Anonymous No.7339726]

Isn't this a confirmation of a racist's bias, the blacks would be willing to force themselves to the podium not by merit but by brutish mob rule disguised as grievances?
The SJW cries out as she strikes you indeed.

[Anonymous No.7339736]

>>7339026
If Lovecraft was alive today and used his fame to spew that racist nonsense I'd be against it. But he's not. He's from a racist time in history, a time when both the best men and the worst looked down on whole subsets of humanity as inferior, and as his novels are not about race, his opinions should not have any impact on his art.

[Anonymous No.7339739]

>>7339298
yes, but not because "muh racism"
but iconoclast "muh false idols"

[Anonymous No.7339750]

>>7338791
>btw I'm a black/trans woman and this is definitely not a Mary Sue power fantasy
FTFY

[Anonymous No.7339770]

I didn't even know it was modelled on him to begin with. This has no impact on me whatsoever, I don't care. Butler isn't great.

[Anonymous No.7339785]

>>7338791
Sounds like your just a shit reader because plenty of sci-fi that focuses on gender goes much deeper into the subject than typical "gender fiction." And honestly there are barely any examples of black power fantasies in sci-fi so you might just be an oversensitive shit.

And most importantly, there is a lot of good sci-fi being written that doesn't touch identity politics. You're just fixated on a niche you see as driving out people like you.

[Anonymous No.7339900]

>>7339785
Just like a woman to act passive-aggressive, appearing to be the voice of neutral reason but giving away their bias.
>driving out people like you

[Anonymous No.7339964]

>>7337890
I agree with the change, because Lovecraft isn't exactly the epitome of fantasy (and that trophy is hideous) but the reasoning is dumb

There are many, many respected figures in history that held beliefs that would be controversial now. I don't understand why we can't separate artists from their work

[Anonymous No.7339994]

>>7339398
>Use em-dashes
Oh hi Jane Austen.

[Anonymous No.7339998]

>>7337924
>you will never be this rich white girl in a minority's white body

[Anonymous No.7340018]

>>7339900
I'm a man lmao. Any other cop-outs you'd like to share?

[Anonymous No.7340023]

>>7337890

As a black guy, this is dumb as fuck

[Anonymous No.7340053]

>>7340018
In this day and age you are the gender you embody, not the gender you were born into.

And you, my friend, embody a woman.

[Anonymous No.7340177]

>>7338832
you are mistaking unfashionable for antiquated

[Anonymous No.7340213]

>>7340053
Keep it going, keep it going. How else can you make yourself sound dumb?

[Anonymous No.7340231]

>>7339290

[Anonymous No.7340278]

>>7338787
Brah, one of the main themes of Lovecraft's horror is the terrible effects of interbreeding between races. Think about The Dunwich Horror again.

[Anonymous No.7340349]

>>7340023
Waddup, muh nigger. White man here to say I'm glad you support our cause.

[Anonymous No.7340371]

>>7339621
>there will be a right-wing antithesis in our lifetime
>we will die before the shitty leftist synthesis
Feels good man

[Anonymous No.7340563]

>>7339026
Minorities are largely the racists now. Attacking white culture is their perogative. Either assimilate. leave or make you own separate culture, but don't change that which doesn't belong to you because reasons-- If you aren't already aware of this, where have you been?

[Anonymous No.7340954]

Bump for more racism