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7304394 No.7304394 [Reply] [Original]

Is sublimation Freud's most legit theory?

>He defined sublimation as the process of deflecting sexual instincts into acts of higher social valuation, being "an especially conspicuous feature of cultural development; it is what makes it possible for higher psychical activities, scientific, artistic or ideological, to play such an important part in civilised life".

>> No.7304405

>>7304394
It's highly questionable. I think it more likely that we just have structures of power and desire other than the sexual.

>> No.7304406

>>7304394
Freud thought all instincts are sexual instincts which suggests sex is all that matters to humans which suggests humans wouldn't have instincts for self preservation or camaraderie which weren't bastardisations of sexual instincts which suggests Freud is a retard

>> No.7305016

>>7304406
well self preservation is a necessity if one wishes to reproduce...

This can be disregarded after an individual has children in certain situations, like parents could throw themselves in harms way if it means saving their children. This disregard for self-preservation seems to emerge in situations were sexual reproduction has been achieved or is promised to remain a possibility.

Camaraderie rises in a similar fashion, best seen in times of war. A greater good, wining a war, is enough incentive to band together difficult people in difficult times. It can be safe to say that winning a war is a form of self preservation, a promise that your children, and loved ones will not face harm or that you are promised a chance to reproduce.

>> No.7305022

>>7304394
Pretty much all of Freudian theory is legit tbh

>> No.7305039

>>7304394

It's basically unverifiable garbage.

>continentals trying to push magical thinking in an era of science

>> No.7305075

>>7304394
replace "sexual" with general "appetite" and you get the more classical philosophical model that still seems to function in roughly the same way. Proper spirited redirection of the appetites, sexual and otherwise, leads to accomplishment and honor. Basically we know very well what we want from one another and the environment in the short term, but must will ourselves to delay gratification for long term gain. Civilization follows when everyone proves capable of doing this.

>> No.7305101

Most of his views on defense mechanisms are legit so long as they don't go into crazy sex-mode. I like his theories on why people need to have religion.

>> No.7305109

>>7305022
dubs confirm tbh

>> No.7305120

>>7305101
I pretty much agree with this. I think some of them are a bit reaching(reaction formation), but for the most part they're spot on. There's a reason projection, displacement, etc. are all still used.

>> No.7305121
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7305121

Yes, and after him we found out that our "appetite" or "desire", being this our core drive to stay alive and preserve our existence is structured by language and the perception of reallity.

>> No.7305152
File: 249 KB, 500x399, PiccoloPostboy.Ep.125.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7305152

>>7305039
It's very verifiable, the problem is it's too verifiable. Unfalsifiable is the word you're looking for. Even so, that's a weak criticism.

>> No.7305509

>>7305121
Yes, and after him we found out that 'language' and 'perception of reality', being this our core drive towards meaning and towards the preservation of our hereditary rituals is structured by oedipal repression and the social field.

>> No.7305526

>>7305039
>Freud
>continental
Babby's first shitpost

>> No.7305879

the flipside is that you open up an unnecessary moralistic meta level of eternal ad hominems.

nietzsche's will to power is more elegant.
>ok, lets not pretend that we're disengaged agents of logic and rationality
>but i will still debate you directly instead of making you a case study

>> No.7305889

>>7305022
This

>> No.7305972

>>7304394
I think the concept of unconscious is his most legit theory.

anyway most of his work is based.

>> No.7305986

>>7305039
Mate, Austrian philosophy before WW2 was largely analytical. There's a reason why Austrian school, Wittgenstein, Husserl et al came from there.

Continental philosophy's roots lie in Hegelianism, which itself is based on Protestantism.

>> No.7306002

>>7304405
you mean something like core regions that can dispose energy for us ? Like sexual, emotional physical and intellectual centers ?

>> No.7306023

>>7306002
obviously he meant power as in domination or control.

>> No.7306035
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7306035

>>7304394
>Is sublimation Freud's most legit theory?
he does not work for women. women love sex for sex. making love (aka spreading her legs) is the highest act that women can perform, just before abortion. When a woman abort her pregnancy, she is expressing the most her femininity.
so women are about love+death .

Most men are betas and do not live for sex. they do not even have sex for sex, but have sex for validation of their existence.
The step betas->pre-alphas is precisely going acknowledging this and then you have yet to live through something else. the stage pre-alphas->alphas is the one where all life expectancies are destroyed and where the guy reaches the liberty not subject to any conditions.

women cannot reach this liberty, precisely because they live through sex and death. Only grannies reach a state of appeasement after their decades of hedonism. Of course, they die before they achieve anything, generally with some milder form of angst that the pre-alphas experiment.

>> No.7306088

>>7305022
I hear plebs shitting on Freud all the time.
>he was some kinda pedo, right? i'm not a pedo so he's wrong lel
Fucking children.

>> No.7306130

>>7304394
This rings so true. Especially when talking of individuals who do not come by sex easily in their early years and so channel all their unsatisfied sexual lust into hard work or the acquisition of knowledge.

Describes most of /lit/s users desu.

These people often try to rationalise it and will say that they are striving for higher ideals but in reality I think many people are dishonest with themselves about how simple their problems, drives and desires are...they just want an emotional connection and a good shag.

>> No.7306152

>>7306130
tautology.
it rings true because you don't seem to know any other jargon than freudianism when talking about it.

>> No.7306161

>>7306152
Its not repeating the idea though. I'm merely saying its something I've observed in my life. May not be universally true of course.

Don't see any freudianisms in my post either, apart from maybe "a good shag."

>> No.7306180

>>7304394
>>7305121
Isn't Lacan's big change to Freud that sublimation isn't possible? I thought this was the reason Harold Bloom hates Lacan.

>> No.7306187

>>7306180
no.

>> No.7306193

>>7306187
How now?

>> No.7306202

>>7306161
suggestive language like "channeling" or "rationalizing" which makes it sound as if everything is already established according to principle of sufficient reason. whatever is expressed or channeled, Freud didnt know and couldnt approximate it. far more plausible psychological ideas have been disproved by now.

>> No.7306204

>>7306193
there is sublimation under the lacanian approach.

>> No.7306228

>>7306204
Did Lacan have any big disagreements with Freud or did he just bring the DUDE STRUCTURALISM LMAO into Freud?

>> No.7306230

>>7304394
So Freud endorsed no-fap?

>> No.7306246

>>7305022
Nah, the theories were tested empirically. A surprising amount of stuff is true, but most of it has no basis in reality. Especially what he wrote about women. I know it's a reddit meme to say that, but data is data.

>> No.7306261

>>7306230
is something different. The nofap is something like "stop fapping and you will get superpowers."

Sublimation is something like: Do you have an oral fixation? work on becoming a chef; is your libido fixed into violence?, try to sublimate it by playing rugby. and so forth.

>> No.7306270

Freud was based when it came to the aesthetics of human psychology--the type of things that are portrayed in literature. The whole 'Freud sucks and should be forgotten' thing is a neoliberal meme from people who cannot separate scientific value from overall value.

>> No.7306281

>>7306228
That question is out of my limited knowledge.

According to Lacan himself, all he did was introducing the "object petit a". But some other authors says that there is some basic disagreement with Freud. But as I said I can't really explain it.

>> No.7306339

>>7304394

FUCK THAT CHARLATAN WHO STOLE EVERY FUCKING ONE OF APOLLO'S GIFTS TO MEN TO SUBJUGATE THEM TO LOWLY AFFAIRS OF PEENY WEENIE MOMMY SUCKY

>> No.7306348

>>7306270
i'm sure everybody would miss all the freudian concepts translated into kitchen scenes. a huge gift for art.

>> No.7306358

Freud was just trying to rationalize his own inability as a Jew with his own set of instincts and sentiments to adapt to a civilization created by and adalted too ethnic europeans with their own set of instincts and sentiments.

And then like a true Jew proceeded to massively project this state of affairs on to everyone else.

>> No.7306380

>>7305016
>well self preservation is a necessity if one wishes to reproduce...
That matters not. Biology establishes that the two main functions of the living are self-preservation and procreation, roughly. Those two are separate, even though reproduction presupposes the former.

>> No.7306411

>>7305120
I have a masters in psych and literally none of those are used in clinics or research you dumb motherfucker

>> No.7306423

>>7306035
You sound like /r9k/

>> No.7306429

>>7306088
By plebs you mean people with an IQ over 50 and a degree right?

Freud is literal psuedo-science. Nowhefd in the world save for like second and third world countries still practice psychoanalysis. Freud's most important controbution to psychology was making it popular with the general public.

>> No.7306485

>>7306281
I hear a lot about "object a". What did Lacan mean by this?

>> No.7306517

>>7306429
> Nowhefd in the world save for like second and third world countries still practice psychoanalysis.

Wrong.

>Freud is literal psuedo-science

I used to think that. And true it doesn't go hand in hand with the modern scientific method. But alot of his writings has alot of value, and psychoanalysis is a very valuable therapy.

>> No.7306539

>>7304394
what do you mean?

his legacy was of sublimation. but there is no sublimation in the social. it is directly invested in. there is no oedipus, there are actions and connections to social codes.

>> No.7306559

>>7306517
Freud believed that all unhappiness stems from a traumatic childhood sexual experience, usually involving one's mother. There is no empirical basis for this. It's nonsense. Freud was an idiot who projected his childhood onto everyone else.

>> No.7306581

>>7306559
>There is no empirical basis for this.
Solid argument.

>> No.7306590

>>7306559
you dont understand freud at all, get out of here.

>> No.7306600

>>7306559
Best cliché ever

>> No.7306729

>>7306261
i thought this what OP's post meant, I-I- was just unsure.
t-thank you senpai

>> No.7307943

bump

>> No.7308188

>>7306411

I didn't mean used in that context, dingus.

>> No.7308342

>>7306423
found the virgin

>> No.7308361

>>7305121

nice hairline mr. lacan

>> No.7308368

>>7306411

source that clinics and research are producing anything of value other than in hard neuroscientific research

>> No.7309896

>>7306130
>/lit/ users
>hard work
>acquisition of knowledge

>as if
>implying they're not chronic masturbators like most of 4chan

>> No.7309978

>>7306429
>>7306246
actually almost all of marketing is, forgive the pun, rebranded psychoanalysis

>> No.7310531

>>7306559
Very much of modern cultural sciences aren't dependent on empirical evidence, but rather through narrative interpretation. If you read Freud as a cultural theorist it will be much more giving.

>> No.7310639

As a general rule Freud was right, or at least fairly helpful/thought provoking, about more things than he is commonly given credit for:

- Division of the mind into id and ego (roughly corresponds to lower and higher parts of the brain in modern neuroscience). The superego is more contentious and probably isn't as much a distinct thing as he thought, but it does provide a framework for discussing how thoughts and emotions interact to form more abstract phenomena like 'conscience' and 'guilt.'

- The formative role of early childhood in healthy psychological development, particularly the child's relationship with his parents as determinant of whether he ends up sexually healthy or repressed.

- His catalog of 'defense mechanisms' is useful and definitely describes interesting sets of behavior that everyone should know about. I'd imagine most people could identify examples of repression, projection and regression in their own personal histories. I'm less sold on the framework in which these behaviors are introduced; in particular, I think that projection is much deeper and more fundamental to human cognition than the description of it as an 'ego defense mechanism' implies... But as a rough catalog of human behavior patterns, Freud's 10 defense mechanisms as outlined by Anna, are worth being familiar with.

Where Freud loses me is when he gets really specific, for example most of the stuff in the Oedipal drama involving the son thinking his mother once had a penis. That strikes me as him deliberately trying to be provocative; in his writings he often spoke of wanting to develop that 'humble' mankind like Darwin and Copernicus did, and it seems to me that some of his crazier theories are motivated by such concerns.

>> No.7310690
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7310690

>>7309978

Do you work in advertising or marketing?

As someone who works at an agency I find this claim a bit ridiculous. There is the basic concept of using images of hot women in beer as and so forth, which psychoanalysis can describe, but these practices were around before psychoanalysis. Pic related. It's from 1871.

Aside from that, there is a lot of psychology in advertising, but it's pretty much a grab bag of random schools... Pavlov, evo psych, concepts at the border of psych and economics like scarcity, maybe a few things from psychoanalysis, etc.

>> No.7311227

You may not be aware that your bullshit thread is now required to be contained, sorry, quarantined, sorry, exiled, to /his/ where it belongs. Your days of shitting up /lit/ with not /lit/ endless zero operant obsolete captured Vienna jew mouth diarrhea are over.

Starting Monday ban hammer to the forehead.

>PRAISE m00k

that is all.

>> No.7311243

>>7311227
>he doesn't know Freud mainly wrote about myths and stories and fiction by design
Looks like he was prepared for your trap card in turn of the century Vienna, anon-kun. Sorry you haven't read the books, but you'll have to leave for >>>/his/ until you do and the necessary follow up paper to illustrate you understand the effects of Bettelheim's Uses of Enchantment on storytelling after 1975 to make up those book knowledge points you lost.

>> No.7311821
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7311821

what is the woman ?

>> No.7311891

Psych student here.

The main problem with Psychoanalysis is that most of it's theory is a vicious cycle.

>you act like x because you wanted to fuck your mom during childhood
>but i didn't
>see? you're in denial, which proves i'm right

It's an oversimplification, but that's bassically how it goes most of the time.

The stuff about the subscounscious is legit, tho.

>> No.7311925

>>He defined sublimation as the process of deflecting sexual instincts into acts of higher social valuation

Primates do show acts of altruism as a means of preserving the species even at the cost of preserving ones own genetic legacy, but I dont see how its sexually driven

>> No.7311980

>>7311821
The other, the mother. Life and death.

>> No.7312208

>>7306088
>>he was some kinda pedo, right? i'm not a pedo so he's wrong lel
>Fucking children.
can't tell if that was intentional but good job anon

>> No.7312214

>>7311980