What are some good academic works on transsexualism? Pro, anti, objective, etc.

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Anonymous Mon Oct 26 19:42:59 2015 No.7286771 [Reply] [Original]

What are some good academic works on transsexualism? Pro, anti, objective, etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 20:36:27 2015 No.7287044 >>7286771 >objective go burgerpost somewhere else

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 20:45:36 2015 No.7287076 >>7287044 >burgerpost That's all Angloposting m8

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:03:39 2015 No.7287810 Jack Halberstam is a very contemporary philosopher that focuses on gender and queer theory, including transgenderedness. "Female Masculinity" is a good starting text by him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:06:05 2015 No.7287831 Op-eds on HuffPo Op-eds on Breitbart

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:07:00 2015 No.7287837 >>7286771 Sexual morality is a fucking mess. It's like voting in an American election. Every interpretation you come across seems equally wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:11:05 2015 No.7287854 Meyerowitz, J., How Sex Changed: A History of Transsexuality in the United States

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:15:07 2015 No.7287869 >>7286771 Most is "PRO THIS! PRO THAT!" garbage pumped out by APA psycos, The Way of Men by Jack Donovan addresses them the best he can. There is hardly any Objectivity at all to it, it being a mental illness pushed on us all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:18:18 2015 No.7287890 Butler - Undoing Gender

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:20:21 2015 No.7287903

>>7287869
Or it just doesn't sound objective to you because you've made up your mind already and can't imagine that anyone could come to a different conclusion than yours without an ulterior motive.

As for my uneducated 2-cents, I think it's a mental illness, but I say that not as some insult to transsexuals. I think we have to get over a lot of the stigma about mental illness before we can pretend to look at it objectively.

But I don't know anything.

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:24:34 2015 No.7287924

>>7287903
I have made up my mind, unless someone can show some damming proof or explinations for the multiple problems and statics that go in line with it.
I see it as a this.
A psychiatrist writing about this:

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

"I do so not only because truth matters, but also because overlooked amid the hoopla—enhanced now by Bruce Jenner’s celebrity and Annie Leibovitz’s photography—stand many victims. Think, for example, of the parents whom no one—not doctors, schools, nor even churches—will help to rescue their children from these strange notions of being transgendered and the problematic lives these notions herald. These youngsters now far outnumber the Bruce Jenner type of transgender. Although they may be encouraged by his public reception, these children generally come to their ideas about their sex not through erotic interests but through a variety of youthful psychosocial conflicts and concerns.

First, though, let us address the basic assumption of the contemporary parade: the idea that exchange of one’s sex is possible. It, like the storied Emperor, is starkly, nakedly false. Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they “identify.” In that lies their problematic future."

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:26:17 2015 No.7287933 >>7287869 Transgenderism is indeed a mental condition, and it's best treated by transitioning. It's amusing that /pol/lacks use that terminology as though it's at all disparaging.

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:29:22 2015 No.7287950

>>7287933
>/pol/ boogeyman
Laughing
>it is best treated by transitioning
The statistics show otherwise, the suicide rate before and after doesn't change, there is a disproportionate number of males transitioning than females, and there are not essential studies to determine the validity of transition.
To me Transexuals are on par with Skitzophrenics and their emergence and "acceptance" even to the point of it being promoted is a demonstration of a larger social issue.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:31:25 2015 No.7287960 >>7287950 What's wrong with schizophrenics? Do they not deserve sympathy and treatment?

Thomas Mon Oct 26 23:32:23 2015 No.7287967

>>7287903
In a secular society, we can't get over the stigma. That is because the psychiatric "disorder" replaced "disordered desire" (aka sin) which was treated through repentance and forgiveness by a priest. With the modernism, like homosexuality now became an inherent sickness instead of a sin, and they had to be "cured"--this helped make it into an identity, you were "a homosexual", not just someone who engaged in unnatural sodomy. There was madness before rampant secularism, but it didn't face any stigma (see Madness and Civilization).

What will secularism do to cope with the stigma? It will just attach the illness to the already stigmatized targets. Eventually, homophobia will become a mental illness, as will transphobia. Because you can't actually remove the stigma attached to mental illness without having a different institution diagnosing disorder from a moral perspective.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:33:08 2015 No.7287970 If there was an actual way to change someone's sex it'd be one thing but currently trannies are all just retards with mutilated genitals and often unconvincing hormone induced cosmetic changes to their bodies.

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:35:14 2015 No.7287979

tbh I don't believe in transgenderism. gender is a social construct (to me) so the essentialist idea that a "male" brain exists in a female body or vice versa seems a bit reaching, as ridiculous as "white" brains in black bodies or the worrying trend transablism. it seems like a weird body dysmorphia/genitalia fetishism, and transitioning should be a last resort imo.
what does it even mean to be a "woman" or a "man" in the mind? curious to know

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:36:41 2015 No.7287982

>>7287950
>the suicide rate before and after doesn't change
The cause of suicide is very important. Are they killing themselves because of mental issues caused primarily by internal or external factors? I don't know, and I suspect you don't either. I suspect you'll pretend to though.

>>7287979
>Transabalism
What the shitting fuck is this?

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:37:08 2015 No.7287985

>>7287960
Yes, they do and they recive treatment and can usually live OK lives, normal lives. However Skitzophrenic behaviors have been extensively studied and require large amount of psychological care and assistive drugs to manage.
Transexuals have the desire to mutilate their bodies.

This is also assuming that "non-binary" genders are bunk. Seeing in my opinion they are but a invention with no perpose unlike the distinct Indian ones from tribal life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:37:24 2015 No.7287988 >>7287979 >transablism This can't possibly be a real thing, can it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:39:11 2015 No.7287993 >>7287985 >Transexuals have the desire to mutilate their bodies. Am I supposed to be shocked? Is this supposed to bother me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:39:14 2015 No.7287994 >>7287960 We don't treat schizophrenics by encouraging them in their delusions.

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:40:21 2015 No.7287998

>>7287988
>>7287982
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

It very much is.
>>7287982
If it is caused by "external" factors then there is no reasonable way to demand change from whole of society to accommodate >1% of the population.
Where today do transgender people face "discrimination" so intense that their suicide rate doesn't change but stays still. Wait that doesn't make sense.
It should probably go up or down.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:40:42 2015 No.7288000 >>7286771 Wipping girl is very basic

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:41:22 2015 No.7288005 >>7287998 you used your gator mouth wrong.

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:42:21 2015 No.7288009

>>7287982
*transableism
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

again, this feels like a bizarre body dysmorphia that should be treated through other means first and only as a last resort (if that is ethical) given into

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:43:49 2015 No.7288017

>>7287950
>The statistics show otherwise
Do you have any stats for that? I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm just genuinely curious and cannot find any pointing either way. In Canada it's covered by the government, subject to rigorous testing in order to be eligible to transition, and is treated as any other medical issue.

In my personal life, I know a number of transpeople (more transmen than transwomen, actually) and the majority of them have seen significant improvement in their lives since transitioning. Others are still clusterfucks, because they are stupid people. This doesn't seem to be reserved for transpeople.

Screaming "mental illness" is no different than screaming degenerate, "/pol/" is a handy shorthand for the new wave of conservative-via-contrarianism morons.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:45:23 2015 No.7288024 File: 76 KB, 680x664, 1443480321594.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7287810 >Jack Halberstam >Gaga Feminism >Postmodern drivel makes me want to gag gag.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:45:54 2015 No.7288026 >>7287998 >Being a utilitarian Speaking of mental illness

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:47:31 2015 No.7288036 >>7288005 Sorry? >>7288026 I don't like Util. Often beat it in CX and never won with it. Doesn't seem to hold up moralistically. But I get your joke. I believe in a society based on capability.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:47:34 2015 No.7288037 File: 1.29 MB, 2200x3037, 23-thomas-pynchon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7288024 >not knowing what postmodernism actually is >bitching about it anyway

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:47:46 2015 No.7288038

In my experience it is the token response of the uneducated to see a false dichotomy and say "It isn't a matter of just A or B. There's a "spectrum" of possible outcomes "between" A and B."

Gender, when separated from sexual characteristics, is really a matter of nothing. This unfortunate truth is rarely realized or admitted by social justice advocates, who vie for some kind of legitimacy in their conflict with others. Like the de-sexualized gender, however, justice and legitimacy are caused by nothing, cause nothing, and are nothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:48:55 2015 No.7288044 >>7288017 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:50:43 2015 No.7288057 >>7288038 Gender is a bloated word, it was originally used to describe the sex of not sexed things. Now the word needs to be destroyed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:52:00 2015 No.7288068 File: 9 KB, 250x250, Bloom Giggle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7288037 >leftypols pushing their agenda onto lit

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:52:03 2015 No.7288069 theyre just ultra gay men tbh they dont want to be women, they want to be attractive to men. Jenner didnt get a 60 years old female body after all

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:55:03 2015 No.7288079 >>7288069 She's a lesbian, though

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:55:48 2015 No.7288085 >>7288079 >she get spooked fam

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:55:59 2015 No.7288087 >>7288079 And a Republican kek. And killed an elderly women

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:56:03 2015 No.7288088 >>7288044 >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/ >Sweden, 1973-2003. That's hardly a worthwhile representation of the current situation in North America.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:56:14 2015 No.7288090 >>7288069 Does that make ftms ultra lesbians?

Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:57:53 2015 No.7288098

>>7288088
Are north americans different from sweden? In Sweden to criticize trans is a big big nono, and suicide rate is still high.
It does not explain the no change. It would imply transitioning doesn't help.
Your "friends" you talk about feel pretty good being hopped up on estrogen, and the women feel SUPER good on Testosterone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:57:54 2015 No.7288099 >>7288090 sometimes, they can also be ultra feminists, or just compensating

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 26 23:58:24 2015 No.7288102 >>7288090 If they're attracted to women they are straight. If they're attracted to men they are gay.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:00:38 2015 No.7288118 >>7288102 >implying extreme dress up changes who you are all of them are pretty gay

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:00:57 2015 No.7288120

>>7286771
This is some of the dumbest shit. Maybe i'm old fashioned. But I think you can dress how you want, talk how you want, fuck or suck who you want or be fucked or sucked by who you want. But if I run around saying "i'm really this trapped in the body of this" then really i'm just an asshole with identity issues. And I'd still be a man whether I like it or not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:01:02 2015 No.7288121 Having a mental disorder is not fixed with a physical change.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:02:30 2015 No.7288132 >>7288121 A bullet to the head solves it pretty quick >seaths katana

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:03:29 2015 No.7288138 >>7288120 No, you're absolutely right. It's just always been trendy to encourage people's delusions and it's turned into a cultural meme because of retards on the internet and in colleges.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:05:14 2015 No.7288144 >>7288120 >But I think you can dress how you want, talk how you want, fuck or suck who you want or be fucked or sucked by who you want. but you cant, it's stupid, youre basically justifying what you disagree with.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:07:24 2015 No.7288161 >>7288144 Are you sure you read that properly?

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:08:44 2015 No.7288169

>>7288144
Who can't? they very much can.
What I disagreed with was that I have to respect some dude's delusions. where's the line? am I required to agree if you insist that you're a hippo?

That would stay my conviction regardless of who you suck or fuck.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:10:02 2015 No.7288176 >>7288161 yes, that's why i said youre basically justifying what you disagree with. You concede too much

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:10:13 2015 No.7288177 >>7288169 Only if they want to be boiled in a tank.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:12:07 2015 No.7288188 These conversations are never worth having. You're either for or against, nothing's going to change your mind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:12:15 2015 No.7288190 >>7288177 Oh, now I get it. You've got nothing worth anything to say. Namaste litizen. I've got more interesting threads to visit.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:13:25 2015 No.7288194

>>7288188
I would gladly change my mind if someone said something new. If someone revealded to me some metaphysical truth that said that sex is actually a trait that preceeds your biological makeup, and that therefore a woman could be trapped ina man's body, then I would in fact change my opinion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:14:14 2015 No.7288198 >>7288190 I'm not the guy you quoted and that was just a reference to a Kerouac/Burroughs book. Stop being such a vagina.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:16:17 2015 No.7288203 >>7288169 >What I disagreed with was that I have to respect some dude's delusions. where's the line? youve already crossed the line buddy. what you think people can do i just as much deluded as what you think they cant do

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:19:27 2015 No.7288214 >>7288203 You're retarded m8. I'm not that guy but they physically --can--. Whether they should or not is another issue entirely.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:20:23 2015 No.7288219

>>7288017
>Do you have any stats for that? I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm just genuinely curious
You're behaving like a redditor; proactively apologizing for any offense your desire to see proof might cause. How lacking in curiosity must you be that this is how you approach the unknown. Are you by any chance a leftist?

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:21:28 2015 No.7288224

tbh I don't have a fully reconciled position on transgenderism
some of it is probably legitimate but at the same time some of it obviously comes out of pure fetishism or mental illness (outside of gender dysphoria)
we also know very little about it yet we're charging into it at full speed giving 7 year olds drugs that will permanently alter their bodies because they wore a dress one time

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:22:52 2015 No.7288229 >>7288214 they metaphysically cant

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:24:01 2015 No.7288233 >>7288229 Not that guy but you're using that word wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:24:43 2015 No.7288235 >>7288229 And if you'd said that from the beginning you wouldn't have sounded like such a retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:24:43 2015 No.7288236 File: 369 KB, 962x1262, 1418201267872.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7288233 Just reminder what kind of people trans are

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:26:01 2015 No.7288238 >>7288219 >someone isn't a cunt on the internet better make sure they check their priv calm your shit poly

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:26:19 2015 No.7288240 >>7288233 how?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:26:48 2015 No.7288242 >>7288224 also some of it is most definitely out of a compensatory hatred of masculinity

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:27:45 2015 No.7288247 >>7288236 That's not a relevant response. You still do not know what metaphysical means.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:27:47 2015 No.7288248 >>7288242 I prefer to say more of a hatred of life

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:28:43 2015 No.7288253 >>7288236 >hating maddiechan low test beta male spotted

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:28:59 2015 No.7288254 >>7288247 That is not me :< I know what metaphysische means

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:29:35 2015 No.7288257 Aquinas and the Scholastics. Seriously just like bread is only bread in its accidents and not its substance so can people be men or women in thier accidents but not their substance

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:30:41 2015 No.7288260 File: 175 KB, 425x312, 1418440727490.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7288253 MIDF

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:31:07 2015 No.7288262

>>7288240

What he and his interlocutor were discussing is best indicated with "phenotype/genotype" categories, or just "physical appearance" vs. "genetic makeup."

There is absolutely no need or reason to go into metaphysics here unless you intend on showing how gender is an essential quality of human being which is part of the ontological fabric of the world.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:32:14 2015 No.7288266 >>7288188 You're assuming that everyone reading these threads has already made up his mind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:32:26 2015 No.7288268 >>7288257 but that's a miracle anon it doesnt count, in the natural order accidents flow from the substance

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:32:35 2015 No.7288269 >>7288253 I have no idea who that is but if they're that thing in the picture I feel sorry for them for turning from an average looking man into what looks like a droopy sad old lesbian. It's like a voluntary Houellebecq.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:33:35 2015 No.7288273 >>7288269 It shitposts on /pol/ all day. Don't feel bad for it, it's a sadmasochist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 00:39:35 2015 No.7288291 >>7288262 you dont need genes to know what something is, anon. People have known theyre men or women for a long time before they knew what a gene is

Thomas Tue Oct 27 00:54:04 2015 No.7288328

>>7288257
I'm not even sure why Catholics felt the need to put that into a doctrine, why couldn't they have just said, "It's Christ, and a great mystery," like the Orthodox Church? We wouldn't have all this "it's just a symbol" Protestant nonsense today if they had.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:02:07 2015 No.7288364

>>7288268
Incorrect the miracle is in changing it not in there being a disconnect between the two.

>>7288328
Due to thier interpreation of the bible combined with the fact Catholic theologians have a hard on for rationalism and phobia of mystery. You wont see anything simmilar to the cloud of unknowing be made by modern Catholic theologians

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:02:25 2015 No.7288365 >>7288328 it's the same thing as the Orthodox though. And it's still a mystery. It's not like Catholics consecrate in a lab or anything. It's the same doctrine as the Orthodox, only in a different, more intelligible way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:06:07 2015 No.7288376 >>7288365 The church is the lab of the apostles

Thomas Tue Oct 27 01:06:49 2015 No.7288378

>>7288365
Right, it's the same doctrine that existed since the start of Christianity. And I'm saying the Catholic fugged up big time by rearticulating it as transubstantiation. Just should have left it as, "It's the body and blood of Christ," instead getting so enraptured with Aristotle they found it necessary to break it down with his terms.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:07:58 2015 No.7288381

>>7288364
>Incorrect the miracle is in changing it not in there being a disconnect between the two.
and how do you think the change takes place without there being a suspension of the natural order? If no suspension has taken place then we can hardly call it a miracle.
>Catholic theologians have a hard on for rationalism and phobia of mystery
What we can know we know and what we cant know we dont know. And for Catholics there are a lot of things left unknown

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:08:40 2015 No.7288385 >>7288269 Maddiechan's butt is really trappy tho. Total black girl ass. It's huge and well shaped. :d

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:08:49 2015 No.7288386 >>7288378 >getting so enraptured with Aristotle >namefags after aquinas

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:11:07 2015 No.7288387 >>7288381 The disconection refers to what is occouring with transgendered people not the miracle of the Eucharist >And for Catholics there are a lot of things left unknown Certianly not compared to protestants and the Orthodox.

>>	Thomas Tue Oct 27 01:14:25 2015 No.7288394 >>7288386 Aristotle in theology is one thing. Aristotle for Church dogma is something else.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:16:39 2015 No.7288402

>>7288378
>And I'm saying the Catholic fugged up big time
how? the main reason the doctrine was formulated was because of the different formulations by protestants. We must know what we actually mean when we say "It's the body and blood of Christ" so the faithfull dont form incorrect ideas.

Thomas Tue Oct 27 01:17:23 2015 No.7288404

>>7288387
Protestants are (generally) actually even worse than Catholics on knowing everything, they just prefer much less academic explanations.. That's why some like taking the entire Bible literally--it's just easier. Having the answer to everything is why there are so many Protestant denominations, they all have the answer to something.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:20:14 2015 No.7288414

>>7288387
>The disconection refers to what is occouring with transgendered people
there isnt such disconnection, that's what im saying. Unless you want to call transgenders a "miracle" in a nonmetaphorical way, there's no reason to think there is a disconnection

Thomas Tue Oct 27 01:21:23 2015 No.7288416

>>7288402
The doctrine predates Protestantism by hundreds of years, it started holding wide precedent in the Fourth Council of the Lateran, it just got more rigorously codified (same as the Biblical Canon) in the Counter-Reformation. It was one of the things Luther bitched about as evidence that the Catholic Church was just making random shit up, and Luther pulled a lot of people in on that who were ignorant by showing all the terminology came from Aristotle.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:24:51 2015 No.7288426 >>7288144 >it's stupid Excellent argument there guy

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:27:33 2015 No.7288432

>>7288416
>It was one of the things Luther bitched about as evidence that the Catholic Church was just making random shit up
The reason Luther attacked the Catholic Church on Aristotelianism was because of his own aversion to reason, which was a product of his commitment to Ockhamist "you cant know nuffin" theology. Besides, what are you defending? the whole faith/reason dichotomy that is fucking Christians up in the modern era? because the Orthodox dont support such things

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:32:59 2015 No.7288442

>>7287994

Actually, you aren't suppose to challenge the worldview of schizoprenics. What is objective truth to schizophrenics differs drastically compared to "normal" people. Trying to change how they think about certain things is like me trying to tell you that blue is orange. That's how it is for a lot of them. I'm sure. All you can do is try to minimize the more harmful delusions some can have.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:33:31 2015 No.7288447 >>7288432 But they also had a monopoly on christ... No? I am a Missouri Senate Lutheran and I like them. He also no like Jews :) I like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:37:00 2015 No.7288455 >>7288447 Stop dividing Christ anon it's wrong

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:40:51 2015 No.7288467

>>7288455
B-but the Catholics are too easy to make fun of.
They have little smoke puffing things and stuff.
One day grandad was watching the thing for the new pope? And they are trying to make white smoke and can't get it.
And so he jumps up and says "I know how to make white smoke !" And goes grabs a handful of horse weeds and sticks them in a cow turd and lights it.
Made white smoke.
Catholics BTFo

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:45:56 2015 No.7288479 >>7288467 Im glad i cheered you up m8, most of the time that's what the mentally disabled need

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:47:31 2015 No.7288486 >>7288479 Well see I told my dad years ago I wanted to be a Catholic after my edgy Fedora faze and he laughed

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 01:52:57 2015 No.7288499 http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/new-zealand-family-opt-for-controversial-treatment-to-stunt-daughters-growth/story-fneuzlbd-1227584048092 somewhat poignant

Thomas Tue Oct 27 02:39:19 2015 No.7288606

>>7288432
No, I'm not defending that at all. Orthodox mysticism doesn't have to to with will-to-believe, it's about experience. I think the will-reason dichotomy was also a bit of a mistake, but definitely theological voluntarism was where the especially major issues started.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 02:50:53 2015 No.7288625 >>7288447 >I am a Missouri Senate Lutheran Aren't they creationists?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 02:52:25 2015 No.7288626 >>7288499 >poignant were u meming?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 02:57:15 2015 No.7288643 >>7287924 LGBT BTFO

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 02:58:10 2015 No.7288644 The only thing that frigthens me more than "gender is a social construct" is "people can be born to the wrong gender" Why did there have to be so much disgusting ugliness next to the beauty?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 03:34:01 2015 No.7288719 >>7288644 People of the future are going to be laughing their asses off at this, once we actually figure all this stuff out. >>7287924 /thread

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 03:50:35 2015 No.7288743

>>7288719
>People of the future are going to be laughing their asses off at this, once we actually figure all this stuff out.

Not likely, m8. We'll probably get a sentence:

"Their society became decadent, as societies are wont to do..."

And then on to the beta uprising of 2025 & eventually total nano hydrogen holocaust that leaves only the most expensive sex-dolls. They'll wander the earth confusedly and then die, having waited in vain for the chance to satisfy nobody.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 06:31:25 2015 No.7289077
File: 207 KB, 480x402, 1368907939210.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I can't be objective. I've met an intersexual person (born with both sexual characters), who fell in love with me. It's kinda strange, because he/she had schizophrenic episodes, heard voices...

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 06:56:42 2015 No.7289121 >>7288098 >In Sweden to criticize trans is a big big nono In media maybe, not in your personal life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 08:09:36 2015 No.7289252 >>7288625 Sometimes, depends. They very strong religious German folk. I grew up in small German town all my life; am German living in America. Both parents were German.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 08:24:58 2015 No.7289284 >>7288743 lolol

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 08:59:34 2015 No.7289366 >>7286771 >>7287890 This pretty much. Can't say that I agree with her views but I find it interesting nonetheless.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 09:01:12 2015 No.7289375 >>7288269 >implying Houellebecq's image isn't voluntary

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 10:08:51 2015 No.7289576

I actually had no problem with transgender people until I met some. They're without exception mentally broken in one way or another, whether it's paranoia, delusions unrelated to their gender, or just being a general drama magnet.

This whole cultural thing has gotten me to use the word sex to the almost total exclusion of gender.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 10:22:01 2015 No.7289617

The biggest problem with Transsexualism in modern, Western society is that it has been latched upon by the left wing forces within government and politics as another tool with which they can continue their work at breaking down the establishment. The problem is that the establishment as they see it does not exist anymore. They have become the establishment, by and large, of every major Western nation, with the US being the least affected. However, they still believe there is an edifice to be torn down, a structure to be toppled even as they stand on top of the ruins of the societies that existed 50 years ago.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 10:32:03 2015 No.7289649 >>7289617 it's pretty funny to tell leftists that the new right is more of a threat to the establishment than they've ever been I do a leftist course at uni so I've done this before and they go full defensive mode

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 10:35:56 2015 No.7289657 >>7289649 No one who takes a class in which that discussion is relevant will ever be a threat to anything except his parent's wallets.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 11:22:43 2015 No.7289769 >>7289657 Dunno about that. Look how many people go into government after doing law or PPE.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 11:37:16 2015 No.7289829 >>7289769 >Implying most of them will make it into much less through law school

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 11:39:32 2015 No.7289836

>>7289829
Eh, you'd be surprised how many gender studies or useless people get to quite high levels of government and politics.

Look at the current Labour front bench in the UK. Headed by a man who got a couple of Es at A Level and flunked out of Trade Union studies at a Polytechnic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 11:40:34 2015 No.7289841 fuck this shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 13:37:02 2015 No.7290291 >>7287890 This, or maybe her work on gender performatism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 13:40:21 2015 No.7290297 >>7286771 Germaine greer for anti.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 13:49:02 2015 No.7290315

I liken gender dysphoria to age dysphoria. Age dysphoria actually makes more sense to me, as time's effect on the body varies between every individual, sometimes vastly so. Your physical age actually differs from the amount of time that has passed since you were born, so there should be another word for age as gender is to sex. I personally look a lot younger than I am and as a straight guy this isn't a good thing. I don't have dysphoria but if I did I imagine I might want to have some surgeries to look older, maybe even transplant my head hair onto my face and dye it gray, but it's not socially acceptable to do such a thing and those damn insurance crooks wouldn't ever cover it. I might demand senior discounts too because I deserve to be treated equally, and denounce those who refuse as ageist scum.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 14:18:05 2015 No.7290415

>>7286771
>Pro, anti, objective, etc.
It's a mental disorder. How can you be anti- or pro- in relation to it? It's not an opinion you can hold, it's a condition people have. It's objective in the sense that, like many mental disorders, it objectively exists and has been shown to by physiological evidence and studies by doctors. The only controversy is in what is currently the most popular treatment for it, which is gender transition.

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 14:24:47 2015 No.7290429

I like Jean Baudrillard's take on it all. Its not exactly "anti-transsexuality", but I bet many would find it offensive.

from The Transparency of Evil, chapter 3: Transexuality

"Consider Michael Jackson, for example. Michael Jackson is a solitary mutant, a precursor of a hybridization that is perfect because it is universal — the race to end all races. Today’s young people have no problem with a miscegenated society: they already inhabit such a universe, and Michael Jackson foreshadows what they see as an ideal future. Add to this the fact that Michael has had his face lifted, his hair straightened, his skin lightened — in short, he has been reconstructed with the greatest attention to detail. This is what makes himsuch an innocent and pure child — the artificial hermaphrodite of the fable, better able even than Christ to reign over the world and reconcile its contradictions; better than a child-god because he is a child-prosthesis, an embryo of all those dreamt-of mutations that will deliver us from race and from sex.”

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:28:04 2015 No.7291198 >>7288087 >yfw she's not trans just possessed by the ghost of the elderly woman she murdered

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:37:23 2015 No.7291251 >>7291198 >Transgender folks are all innocent people possessed by demons of the opposite sex :-O

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:37:53 2015 No.7291256 >>7289252 They are, it's part of their doctrine

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:39:02 2015 No.7291262 >>7291251 >innocent >>7291256 Well we also drink on Sundays, so that shows you the devotion we have.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:41:10 2015 No.7291271 >>7291262 Orthodox and Catholics drink on Sundays too. Sundays are always a day of celebration, not fast, because Sunday is Resurrection day.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:42:01 2015 No.7291277 >>7290429 What the fuck..

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:46:17 2015 No.7291295 >>7291277 its a good book, I swear

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:55:07 2015 No.7291320

>>7291277

More from "Transexuality" a chapter from Baudrillard's "Transparency of Evil: Essays on Extreme Phenomenon"

"The sexual body has now been assigned a kind of artificial fate. This fate is transsexuality- 'transsexual' not in any anatomical sense, but rather in the more general sense of transvestitism, of playing with the commutability of the signs of sex - and of playing, in contrast to the former manner of playing on sexual difference, on sexual indifference: on lack of differentiation between the sexual poles, and on indifference to sex qua pleasure. Sexuality is underpinned by pleasure, by jouissance (the leitmotiv of sexual liberation); trans sexuality is underpinned by artifice -be it the artifice of actually changing sex or the artifice of the transvestite who plays with the sartorial, morphological or gestural signs of sex. But whether the operation in question is surgical or semio-urgical, whether it involves organs or signs, we are in any case concerned with replacement parts, and since today the body is fated to become a prosthesis, it is logical enough that our model of sexuality should have become transsexuality,and that transsexuality should have everywhere become the locus of
seduction."

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:57:30 2015 No.7291334 >>7289657 they get into student politics which is contains the most poisonous people in the world

Anonymous Tue Oct 27 17:58:02 2015 No.7291338

>>7291320
"We are all transsexuals, just as we are biological mutants in potentia. This is not a biological issue, however: we are all transsexuals symbolically.

Take La Cicciolina. Is there any more marvellous incarnation of sex - of sex in pornographic innocence? La Cicciolina has been contrasted with Madonna, virgin fruit of the aerobic sphere, product of a glacial aesthetic, devoid of all charm and all sensuality - a numbed android who by virtue of this very fact was perfect raw material for a synthetic idol. But is not La Cicciolina too a transsexual? Her long platinum hair, her customized breasts, her realer-than real curves worthy of an inflatable doll, her lyophilic eroticism borrowed from a comic-strip or science-fiction world, and above all the hyperbole of her (never perverse or libertine) sexual discourse - all conspire to offer a ready-made and total sinfulness; La Cicciolina is the ideal woman of a telephone chat-line complete with a carnivorous erotic ideology that no modern woman could possibly espouse - except, that is, for a transsexual, or a transvestite, these being the only people left who live through the signs of an overdrawn, rapacious sexuality. La Cicciolina, as carnal ectoplasm, is here very close to Madonna's artificial nitroglycerine or to Michael Jackson's androgynous and Frankensteinian appeal. All of them are mutants, transvestites, genetically baroque beings whose erotic look conceals their generic lack of specificity. They are all I gender-benders' - all turncoats of sex.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:02:02 2015 No.7291347 >>7291338 Here is the full book as a pdf for those interested And since when can we not upload pdfs? http://sociology.sunimc.net/htmledit/uploadfile/system/20110608/20110608125329259.pdf

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:05:13 2015 No.7291355 >>7291251 >Transgender people are all being pubished by god for the murders they committed with possession

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:12:45 2015 No.7291388 File: 120 KB, 478x610, 1364758681521.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7286771 >anit

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:15:44 2015 No.7291400 >>7287950 I think personal testimonies from those who have changed their gender say more on the matter than statistics on suicide rates. Suicide mostly has to do with alienation from others, not whether or not you have tits.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:30:06 2015 No.7291463 >>7291400 >I think personal testimonies from those who have changed their gender say more on the matter than statistics on suicide rates. >hearsay is better than science get spooked fam

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:30:47 2015 No.7291466 >>7291463 >Sociology and psychology are science Almost choked to death on my coffee

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:31:34 2015 No.7291472 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transsexual_Empire

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 18:38:15 2015 No.7291494 >>7289121 I'm not Swedish, but those who I've met told me that going against the liberal dogma earns you a lot of condemnation.

>>	Thomas Tue Oct 27 18:43:30 2015 No.7291514 >>7291400 >Suicide mostly has to do with alienation from others, not whether or not you have tits. Then it shouldn't be used as an argument for sex changes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 19:14:25 2015 No.7291640 http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-trans/ Here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 23:36:42 2015 No.7292692 >>7286771 this looks like my 2nd cousin, but shes a girl

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 23:43:35 2015 No.7292714 >>7292692 >she

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 27 23:46:07 2015 No.7292724 >>7292714 His second cousin is a girl... Doh.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 28 05:06:39 2015 No.7293572 >>7290429 BAUDRILLLARDDDDD!!!! My nigga!

Anonymous Wed Oct 28 05:17:30 2015 No.7293587

>>7286771
>I used to play with barbies and I like to wear skirts, but the tv tells me only girls do such things! It must mean I'm a girl!
>I need to remove my penis and have doctors excavate a cum bucket there because I'm also gay, but not gay because I'm a girl!
>I can't just face the facts that I might not belong to the traditionally created gender roles of the gender which my genitals and hormones determined I am, so this must mean that I'm this phenomenon that got invented like 5 years ago
I hate transgender shit. So much.

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/lit/ - Literature