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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

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7272191 No.7272191 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /lit/

First time posting here, and I'm curious about something.
I've been pursuing a degree in literature for a few years now, and the days when I get my Bachelor's is fast approaching. I've taken a number of creative writing classes, and one of my professors has noticed something that I wasn't aware of.

The concept of suicide comes up frequently in regards to the protagonist. They end up committing suicide, someone tells them to kill themselves, they undertake an endeavor they know will eventually kill them, one character discovers he's dead (and his suicide attempts wasn't simply a bad dream), etc.

I don't write particularly sad stories, and I don't feel like I'm venting. My mother committed suicide when I was nine and I'm opposed to suicide.
I don't particularly know why I do this, but it seems reflexive. What do you make of this?

>pic related

>> No.7272194

>>7272191
Death occures in a lot of stories people at the age between 15 and 25 write even if those people are rather unlikely to die.

Dunno, do I look like a pyschologist?

>> No.7272197

>>7272194
You don't "look" like anything.
I'm 24 though. Death I can understand... but suicide? Seems a little... off. Maybe I'm onto something.

>> No.7272211

>>7272197
>You don't "look" like anything.
Thanks asshole, some people here have feelings and you just hurt them.

Anyway, have you tried killing yourself to find out?

>> No.7272217

>>7272211
Seriously? I was just being dry for a moment.
I'm not familiar with the /lit/ community, so I don't know how anyone...

>Anyway, have you tried killing yourself to find out?
Oop, nevermind.

>> No.7272221

That sucks that your mother committed suicide but at least that means you have some personal experience with it when you write about it. I'd say embrace your thoughts and ideas on suicide and keep writing about it.

>> No.7272224

>>7272194
if (man) and (age < 40):
most_likely_way_to_die = suicide
print "and you're supprised that this is a dominant theme?"

>> No.7272229

>>7272221
It's no problem.
Thoughts are simple: I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

>>7272224
I'm not suicidal though, that's the thing. And I don't really know anyone (besides previously mentioned family) that's ever killed themselves.
I remember a line from "pic related" in their commentaries on the Hagakure, saying "in 50/50 chances between life and death, choose death", but I have yet to justify this.
Why throw away your life?

>> No.7272235

>>7272229
If you want to know more I'd recommend you read The Savage God: A Study of Suicide by Alvarez.

>> No.7272236

>>7272229
The reason why you find it as such a dominant concept in your narratives because of the way that suicide can always be used as a way to frame all tough decisions, as with the way that Camus talks about suicide explaining peoples reason for living?

>> No.7272243

>>7272235
>The Savage God: A Study of Suicide

looks like there's a decent torrent of it on the pirate bay just under "The Savage God"

>> No.7272263

>>7272236

This guy gets it, it's just an easy mechanism to unlock discourse on a multitude of topics. I'm thinking your personal experience with it might draw you more towards it, or it might really be flat out irrelevant. I don't reckon anyone here will be able to tell you a lot about this, it's really about you introspecting.

If you're asking for advice though, I'd say try writing without relying on suicide as a "theme-enabler", and see where it leads you. At least from what I gather from these handful of posts there isn't much to worry about apart from that (i.e., apart from being a writing crutch).

Do you feel your thoughts gravitate towards suicide, even if just from an intelectual standpoint and are not actually suicidal?

>> No.7272267

Is it weird that I respect suicides for having the courage to decide their fate, assuming no pathetic mental illness.

>> No.7272282

>>7272267
Yeah, people always say suicide is the "coward's way out" but it must take at least some balls to force your body to stand in front of a train or jump off of a building.

>> No.7272295

>>7272282
>>7272267
I don't just explore suicide as a "coward's option" though.

I once wrote a story about a guy who offed himself during WWI just to see what Passchendaele looked like on the other side.

And Mishima didn't kill himself out of desperation, though that goes without being said.

>> No.7272299

Including suicide in a story is very common for edgy undergrads.

>> No.7272319

>>7272282
>>7272267

Why does it deserve more respect than any other decision of your own fate? Such as continue living in this way or that

Not really advocating for the "hurr cowards" point

>> No.7272333

>>7272267
>pathetic mental illness
Pursue suicide yourself you retarded fucking faggot

>> No.7272365

>>7272319
It doesn't. His point is that it does not deserve disrespect.
>>7272229
>Why throw away your life?
Because chances are most people that kill themselves weren't living to begin with

>> No.7272376

>>7272365
>Because chances are most people that kill themselves weren't living to begin with

Don't mean to knock anyone, but if you die... you never will. You eliminate all possibilities of anything ever getting better.

>> No.7272387

>>7272376
If you're dead, you're too dead to care. Also things don't get better, or worse, they only change.

>> No.7272409

>>7272387
>Also things don't get better, or worse, they only change.

How so? "Better" and "worse" are subjective conditions, but in most cases, I would imagine a child thinking that living in a house with caring parents would be "better" than in a hovel with abusive drunkards.

>> No.7272486

>>7272409
Yeah, and the child has an opinion but that opinion is meaningless unless they can prove it.

>> No.7272670

>>7272486
It's subjective. They would enjoy one condition more than the other, so who's to say that it can't be "better" or "worse" for them?

>> No.7272780

>>7272670
That it's an opinion and is completely meaningless to anyone else.
If someone dislikes a peice of art because it looks weird to them, is that art now objectively worse than another peice of art? Does that painting become less "art"?

>> No.7272796

>>7272780
I know... that's why I keep saying "subjective".
But if an opinion on something is totally worthless, even to the person who holds it, then what incentive does anyone have to prefer one mode of treatment for another?

I'm as likely to feed a starving dog as I am to beat it to death with a shovel, given this mentality. After all, the dog might prefer to eat than to die painfully, but that's "an opinion and is completely meaningless to anyone else".

>> No.7272805

>>7272222

>> No.7272806

>>7272191
All good literature is about overwhelming love and contemplation of suicide.

>> No.7272818

>>7272796
>I'm as likely to feed a starving dog as I am to beat it to death with a shovel, given this mentality. After all, the dog might prefer to eat than to die painfully
And what's wrong with that? There's nothing objectively wrong with either situation (unless you believe that death is wrong or pain and suffering isn't wrong (but that's still subjective) but then let me ask you, why is beating to death a dog wrong but eating meat is okay? Two animals die but somehow one is wrong? Don't even try to use suffering as an excuse, many situations animals suffer when being killed because it's done wrong. You live because other things die to support your life. If killing is somehow fundamentally wrong than you are the product of wrong terrible evil (consumption and evolution past mass extinction)
So go beat a dog to death or don't. It doesn't matter.

>> No.7272837

>>7272818
Well I don't ascribe to the notion of absolute morality... then again, neither do I ascribe to ethical nihilism, which sounds like exactly what you're saying.

>> No.7272879

>>7272333
>implying that mental illness is not pathetic

>> No.7272882

>>7272818
I subscribe to a sort of aesthetic morality. Beating a dog to death is wrong because it is aesthetically undesirable. Eating meat isn't.

>> No.7272892

Clearly it's something you're interested in exploring. It's not unhealthy and it's a great thing to explore through fiction.

>> No.7272903

>>7272837
When you open a discussion to things like the morality of life, suicide and death you should expect different ideas (which is healthy, any opinion or idea that you never question is probably a bad one if you aren't willing to test it)
>>7272882
That's an interesting way to look at it. I'm curious as to how vegans or serial killers fit into such a thought process (not that vegans don't kill, They still eat plants and bacteria after all)

>> No.7273094

idk, OP, but my grandfather's father committed suicide too, and my grandfather has been obsessed with suicide ever since. He's pretty old, so I think it's safe to say that he overcame any suicidal thoughts he may of had. Still maybe it has to do with the person trying to justify living to themselves, or maybe to make sense of it. Pretty obvious stuff, but still, maybe there's some kinda trend

>> No.7274722

>>7272224
ew tbh