/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7250578]

What does /lit/ think of Dick?

[Anonymous No.7250587]

I prefer vagina.

[Anonymous No.7250593]

Decent with a female body
Vagina is the main preference

[Anonymous No.7250615]

I really find his books too dense and unejoyable.

Three Stigmata in particular, it's a kind of cool concept but the story just bullshits around and makes it uninteresting.

[Anonymous No.7250628]

>>7250615
do you have experience in taking psychadelic drugs?

I feel like a lot of three stigmata (and a scanner darkly as well) is much more appreciable if you know what a high dose of lsd or psilocybin is like.

[Anonymous No.7250646]

Man in High Castle was nice.

In general I find his prose a bit unpalatable.

[Anonymous No.7250651]

He has some incredibly interesting ideas, but as with a lot of SF writers his prose is pretty mediocre. Not as bad as someone like Asimov, but it still leaves a lot to be desired

[Anonymous No.7251122]

What's PKD's most surreal mindfuck of a novel?

[Anonymous No.7251158]

>>7251122
Ubik prolly

[Anonymous No.7251197]

>>7251122
VALIS

[Anonymous No.7251218]

>>7251122
Valis is essentially his perspective of the world while dealing with a schizophrenic breakdown.

[Anonymous No.7251265]

His dialogue is engaging as fuq, his prose isn't elegant, but it's not bad by any means, the content and themes are always interesting/explorative/philosophical, and I like the characters he creates. The world building is good and the sci-fi elements are developed without being too pulpy.

Sometimes he goes off his rocker, but after reading enough of him you just learn to smile along with the insane bits as you would with a befriended crack head telling you about how he mugged a pepsi machine last Tuesday.

Also, I enjoy that he has consistently great books. Ask a dozen PKD fans what's their favorite book and you could very well get a dozen answers. My personal favorites are Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said, Ubik, and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch.

>>7251122
VALIS, but not necessarily in a good way.

[Anonymous No.7251348]

>>7251265
>the content and themes are always interesting/explorative/philosophical, and I like the characters he creates. The world building is good and the sci-fi elements are developed without being too pulpy.

This is what I love about him. Say what you will about his prose, but he at least always has a strong thematic foundation to his stories. He defies the conventions of genre fiction and writes sci-fi stories that refuse to be action/adventure tales where all of the fantastical elements are their purely for pulpy aesthetics.

When he writes a story about a cynical bounty hunter chasing down rogue androids, it's a contemplative reflection on the human experience and what it means to have consciousness. With other writers, it would just be another entry into the action genre.

His postmodern deconstructionist style of structuring his stories often comes across confusing for people, as his protagonists often are found in the midst of an identity crisis where they simply drop off the momentum of what they're doing in the plot, seeing the ultimate absurdity in it, and going off to do something like wander the desert to experience a psychedelic vision that's allegorical for the theme of the story. He sets up stories so that they could, in different hands, be action oriented stories with a straightforward structure, but he always takes a hard left with it at some point

[Anonymous No.7251370]

One of the few sci fi writers whose reputation is actually deserving

[Anonymous No.7251384]

He's a great novelist trapped in the prose of a mediocre one.

[Anonymous No.7251417]

He has great concepts but his general story structure rarely plays them well. The worst case is The Man in the Castle, where the idea is wasted because he couldn't sit down and imagine how Japan would had been without 20 years of ocupation and barely gave any time to nazi Europe making the whole thing pointless. But it's always better than adaptations where they take away most of his concepts and just leave the bare skelleton, the first time I read Do Androids the constant medication to regulate emotions seemed like such an interesting and theme that I couldn't imagine why they took it out.

[Anonymous No.7251466]

I think the things he tried to say about the human experience often get over looked because the metaphysical weirdness of the stories grabs people's attention the most. Don't get me wrong, I love the spiritual explorations of PKD myself, but he has a lot to say outside of that realm as well.

Look at Three Stigmata for example. The story is at its heart a comentary on the lack of fulfillment that comes with modern career oriented life. It's about people chasing lifestyles to find this fulfillment, but always coming up empty in the end. Barney Mayerson had left his wife and his entire life to move up the corporate ladder and acquire all the material things and social status that he thought would make him while, but even sitting in his high end apartment he felt unfulfilled and yearned to be back with his wife in the life he left behind. Every character wants what the next one has. Barneys new business partner Ronnie Fugate wants his spot, his ex wife's new husband wants to be like the leisurely celebrities at their resorts in Antarctica that he sees on TV, and even Barney himself contemplates taking the role of his boss Leo Bulero. The only one happy with his role is Bulero himself, being the top of the totem pole, but also being a total hedonistic scum bag, the true end point of the lifestyle obsession everyone has.

In the end, when Barney finally accepts his fate as a colonist on Mars, even Palmer Eldritch himself wants to trade places with Barney, desiring to live as a simple farmer on Mars rather than being a solar system consuming God consciousness slithering through the universe in the minds of the sentient life he encounters. When Barney overcomes him, he reaches the end point of his character arc, and finds himself content with his new life as a colonist and his future with the neo Christian missionary.

The world is so alien in the story, but it feels so familiar because on an existential level, these people all have the same struggles that we do.

[Anonymous No.7251626]

>>7251384
This

[Anonymous No.7253379]

Does BookBro still frequent /lit/? I'm looking for a rar of all of PKD's novels so I can tackle them all one by one on my eReader.

[Anonymous No.7253398]

>>7251384
something can be well written and plain. not everything has to be purple shit.

[Anonymous No.7253441]

Three Stigmata probably my favorite PKD book. I'm a sucker for well conceived villains and Palmer Eldritch is just, tbh, cool as heck.

I also feel like the book more than most of his other work synthesizes all of his various visions of the future into a complete, believable-if-dreamlike, universe.

[Anonymous No.7254110]

>>7251122
VALIS. Three Stigmata if you want something more coherent.

[Anonymous No.7254113]

I read Ballard so I don't have to read Dick.

[Anonymous No.7254117]

>>7251466
As an aside, I really love how well PKD portrays Leo Bulero as someone who's not as smart as he thinks he is.

[Anonymous No.7254152]

>>7251122
VALIS. Three Stigmata for something not as surreal or coherent though.

[Anonymous No.7254158]

>>7251370
Stanislaw Lem considered Dick the only good contemporary American sci-fi writer.
Dick considered Lem a front used by a committee of Soviet propagandists using sci-fi to strike at the heart of America.

[Anonymous No.7254161]

>>7251417
>where the idea is wasted because he couldn't sit down and imagine how Japan would had been without 20 years of ocupation and barely gave any time to nazi Europe making the whole thing pointless
That's stupid bullshit and I'm glad Dick skimmed over it. It's not the goddamn point. If you want alt history read Turtledick or whatever.

[Anonymous No.7254517]

>>7251265
>Also, I enjoy that he has consistently great books.
But no
He's probably the foremost example of a writer with widely respected books who also has a ton of duds
>Ask a dozen PKD fans what's their favorite book and you could very well get a dozen answers.
That's because he's got that many good books. If you pay attention you'll notice it's always the same ones that get mentioned, whereas the bulk of his early work, most short stories (not all bad but at best precursors to his ideas) and his shitty quickies are pretty much ignored.

[Anonymous No.7254522]

>>7254158
>Dick considered Lem a front used by a committee of Soviet propagandists using sci-fi to strike at the heart of America.

Classic Phil.

[Anonymous No.7254632]

>>7254158
>...considered Lem a front used by a committee of Soviet propagandists using sci-fi to strike at the heart of America.
Oh, Phil.

[Anonymous No.7254645]

The only acceptable Scifi author

[Anonymous No.7254664]

>>7254645
Lem, Wolfe and Le Guin are arguably better, but it comes down largely to preference

[Anonymous No.7254691]

I haven't read his novels, what's a good starting point for his work?

[Anonymous No.7254713]

>>7254691
"the man in the high castle" if you want the most varied accessible PKD, "a scanner darkly" if you're into drugs and/or live in SoCal, "do androids dream of electric sheep?" if you want his most basic and uninspired work that still reveals a bit of his style.

>>7251197
>>7251218
as a huge PKD fan and annotator of my personal copy of the exegesis, i do not think VALIS is as original or "mindfucking" as any of his earlier works. the postmodern convention of "narrator delineated from character but also aware of it" isn't orthodox by any means, but i never felt as if i was seeing the world in a different way because of it.

>>7251265
having said that, schizophrenia is a hell of a drug. i agree, his prose isn't purple or groundbreaking, but it's descriptive enough to give a paint by numbers image without telling you the paint or numbers. his dialogue is his greatest skill, apart from themes.

i would agree with (>>7251158) that ubik is one of his most confusing and satisfying novels—i had to reread it as soon as i finished, because i felt that all-important something, but couldn't understand it.

[Anonymous No.7254718]

>>7254713
thanks fam

[Anonymous No.7254720]

>>7254691
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Ubik
Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said
A Scanner Darkly

These are all solid, but aren't his best. They're good places to start if you intend to really get into PKD. If you just want to get the skim the cream off the top and move on:
The Man in the High Castle
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
VALIS

In that order.

[Anonymous No.7254743]

>>7254720
totally disagree on two fronts:
>ubik as starter-tier
i think you should only read ubik once you've gotten a sense of PKD's narrative tics and twists; trust in the author is especially important for ubik, when you can sometimes expect no resolution.

>"do androids dream" as first book
it was his first book i read, but i was also 12. if my wife had not read "man in the high castle" first in favor of this, she would have turned 360º and walked away. this is only good if you've never read sci-fi or struggle with deducing meaning from any symbol-laced narrative—this is babby-tier.

other than that, you've got a good list.

[Anonymous No.7255280]

Flow My Tears made me cry like a baby. The monologue at the end. OOMPH.

[Anonymous No.7255361]

>>7254713
>"Do Androids Dream...?"
>uninspired

literally one of the most interesting of PKD's stories

[Anonymous No.7255473]

>>7255361
how exactly? most of his novels deal with what it means to be human:

>now wait for last year
contrasting humanity with a cruel lookalike species versus the peaceful bug-aliens—the choice we all face to be hateful for appearances or to be kind.
>flow my tears
again, the relationship between a person's public identity and their true, immutable self. who are you really when no parent, no lover remembers you?
>dr. bloodmoney
what happens when our social contracts collapse? how to we forge new relationships against a harsh and disgusting world, when we remember the old?

>do androids dream
flesh people can be just as mechanical as the robots! even some robots think they're people!

i'm not saying it's a bad read or tackling of the idea, but PKD was far more original than that would lead a new reader to believe. "man in the high castle" at least focused on personal interrelationships, which is rare for the historical or speculative fiction today

[Anonymous No.7255481]

>>7255361
How? It's the most pulpy, conceptually least interesting, most predictable and least experimental. It is good, but really not in the top 10.

[Anonymous No.7255567]

>>7255473
tbh I was just looking for recommendations for more of his novels to read. thanks

[Anonymous No.7255583]

>>7255567
anytime
i don't think PKD is among the most gifted writers, but he's undeniably attractive to me as someone who thinks about big questions and puts responses into weird vacuums. every time i fall out of reading regularly, i read him and get back on that horse

[Anonymous No.7255604]

>>7255583
>he's attracted to dick
lmao

[Anonymous No.7255611]

>>7255604
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.7255620]

>>7255604
yeah i love when dick fills me with his overwhelming grace fuck yeah daddy

you fucking nonce

[Anonymous No.7255627]

>>7255481
It's not the most or least anything of any of his books. Just a pretty solid story.

[Anonymous No.7255635]

If there's such a thing as exisentialist sci-fi, then that's what Dick writes.

[Anonymous No.7256015]

>>7254713
>"a scanner darkly" if ... live in SoCal
Jesus, so much this.

[Anonymous No.7256166]

>>7254743

this is not really relevant to the thread but

>or struggle with deducing meaning from any symbol-laced narrative—this is babby-tier.

I really do struggle with symbol-laced narratives. I don't think im stupid, just dense. What do?

[Anonymous No.7256192]

Now Wait for Last Year is underrated as fuck around here

recommend it to everyone

[Anonymous No.7256200]

>>7254743
To be honest the symbolism of Androids didn't make much sense to me at all. Rather, mercerism seemed completely besides the point

[Anonymous No.7256231]

>>7256200
The story is all about empathy. The capacity to feel empathy is the specific aspect of consciousness that separates humans from androids. The shared communal experience of sharing in Mercers pain as he ascends is one way people found to experience empathy.

The irony of the story is that Deckard is hunting down these androids in pursuit of acquiring a new pet sheep, a status symbol of his capacity to feel empathy and care for an animal, but he feels absolutely nothing as he kills these humanoid beings that ultimately feel more alive than he does. That's his struggle in the story. He comes to feel as if his life is more artificial than the androids he's killing.

[Anonymous No.7256239]

>>7255583
hehe so you're saying he's not the most gifted, this what you are saying, but still call him horse haha
it is funny because it is like you are making subtle joke about how Dick is homonymous to dick (meaning penis) :^)DDDDDD

[Anonymous No.7256259]

Just finished The Man in the High Castle. Interesting book, I particularly enjoyed the last Mr. Tagomi episode, other than that it was allright, but just because of that part I'd give it a 4/5. Good ideas, lacking execution. I have Ubik and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch on my reading list next.

[Anonymous No.7256290]

>>7250578
Best sinopses of all sci-fi. The concepts proposed always get me interested. State of half-death in which you can communicate with your deceased relatives? Allucinoginous drugs so strong that you never get out of it? Alternative history of the world if the germans had won the second world war? You must be a really plain person if these things don't make you think a lot.

Still, in the end, I'm always kind of disappointed after read his books. They sometimes go to strange places that have nothing to do with the initial premise. Jews obsessed with the Iching that deal with antiquities? PKD, do you really need an alternative reality to talk about this shit?

Anyway, none the books I have read are bad, it is just that i feel that he discarded a lot of good possible plots by not exploring more those unique concepts.

[Anonymous No.7256442]

>>7256166
well, there's no shame in reading something entry-level like that, then—i just expected most people curious about PKD to have symbolic knowledge.

start with something that has a tradition of critical analysis, like shakespeare or the greeks. mythology is also a great way to get a broad foundational understanding of tropes and characters which appear in the western canon. especially with the greeks, the gods' physical attributes and possessions (e.g. athena's crown, apollo's chariot) stand in for character archetypes.

also, there's no shame in using sparknotes to give you the symbols you should pay attention to. try reading a short novel as you normally do, then going back with a pen and underlining words that become thematically significant (water as baptism, clarity and redemption; fire as expansion, power and lust). some symbols are nigh-universal.

one good thing, if you're familiar with 1950s america is to read "the crucible" and draw the parallels yourself. it's a short, easy play and is relevant even today, in times of moral panic.
sorry if this seemed condescending, i'm trying to reach level 6 irony

[Anonymous No.7256474]

>>7256442
>trying to reach level 6
the only way to do this is to hover in level 5 until even you no longer know when you're being ironic, then the illusion is complete

[Anonymous No.7256479]

>>7250578
I've tried reading his stuff a couple of times but it's always felt underwhelming and mediocre to me so I haven't finished a single book of his to date.

[Anonymous No.7256486]

>>7256479
But most of Dick's works are so short, and so concept-driven (as opposed to execution-driven) that you haven't really read any of the book until you've finished it in most cases.

[Anonymous No.7257428]

>>7253379
anyone?

[Anonymous No.7258679]

>>7253379
>>7257428
You don't want to read all Dick in a row, you'll get burned out fast.
And come on, don't be that lazy. PKD ebooks are easy to find anywhere. If you're search engine illiterate, mobilism is one website.

[Anonymous No.7258744]

>>7256486
Something can be short and still drag.

[Anonymous No.7258911]

>>7258679
>you'll get burned out fast.

We'll see about that, buckaroo.

[Anonymous No.7258943]

>>7256231
Thank you for this. I just finished the book and had been struggling with what to make of it. That tied it up for me.

[Anonymous No.7258944]

I've read that Dick makes a pretty good description of schizophrenia.
But which book of his have this theme?

[Anonymous No.7259579]

>>7258944
VALIS is the most explicit. "a scanner darkly" deals with paranoid, drug-induced schizotypal behavior.

most of his other works deal with roots of abnormal or schizotypal behavior, albeit quite indirectly