i have a problem

[Anonymous No.7215403]

Can it be said that freedom is a value?
A value is something to be desired, it could also be said a life without it results in suffering.
What is freedom?
to not be burdened by other's values. This is to say, to be able to do what you want, and not do what you don't want.
then, what does the statement "i value freedom" state?
"I desire to be able to do what i desire"

Is this a tautologically implied value? This is to say, a value that is implied in every case where designation of value is possible.
Could it be said that freedom is a meta-value or super-value. As it is a value concerning values.
Or perhaps it isn't a value at all, because it cannot result in suffering on its own (where if you are forced to act against your value, suffering arising from acting against the value is indistinguishable from suffering based on the resulting loss of freedom)

Where are the flaws in my thinking?
im mf tired so apologies in advance for any incoherence, although i came up with this around noon.

[Anonymous No.7215509]

Freedom is a spook and meaningless in itself.

[Anonymous No.7215523]

>>7215403
I think you've done a poor job establishing what freedom is. Freedom exists both in the positive (I desire to eat icecream) and the negative (I desire to not have my icecream eaten) Freedom must at some point strike a balance, when positive and negative right come into conflict. Freedom isn't an existing perfect state to be lived up to, it's an infinite number of choices that conflict one another all the time.

[Anonymous No.7216487]

>>7215523
This was very helpful thanks alot fam
Wouldn't its nature as not being an ideal confirm that it isn't a value?
Or is a value more than an ideal to be strived for?

[Anonymous No.7216489]

>>7215509

[Anonymous No.7216523]

>>7215509
Being metaphysical doesn't mean it's meaningless, meaning itself is arrived to metaphysically and using a meme word without understanding it makes you look pretty goofy. Life has many doors ed-boy.

[Anonymous No.7216533]

>>7216523
>Being metaphysical doesn't mean it's meaningless

[Anonymous No.7216562]

>>7216533

Carnap is dead and his ideas are too.

[Anonymous No.7216568]

>>7216562
>Carnap is dead and his ideas are too.

Who are you to say that ?

[Anonymous No.7216571]

>>7216568

Someone who has read even the weakest critique of carnap and his fellow logical positivists.

[Anonymous No.7216573]

desire is the object of the other, it is that which manifests the product of desire, any description in language borders on tautology on some level

[Anonymous No.7216764]

>>7216568
>Who are you to say that ?
Literally everyone but you has dismissed logical positivism decades ago, there was nothing coherent about it.

[Anonymous No.7216774]

>>7216764
>Literally everyone but you has dismissed logical positivism decades ago, there was nothing coherent about it.

Add an example ?

[Anonymous No.7218110]

>>7216774
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMlXmLbGKJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ialyHnC_g

[Anonymous No.7218121]

>>7218110

>#rekt

[Anonymous No.7218131]

WHEN YOU DEFINE TERMS ARBITRARILY YOU CAN REASON PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING YOU WANT. YOU HAVE AN EXTREMELY NARROW, NEGATIVE CONCEPT OF FREEDOM THAT NO REASONABLE POISON WOULD ACCEPT. YOU HAVE ALSO TENDENTIOUSLY EQUATED 'VALUE' WITH 'DESIRE'.

TRY AGAIN.

[Anonymous No.7218148]

>>7218131
>tendentiously equated value with desire
name one value which is not to be desired

[Anonymous No.7218166]

>>7218131
Also i'd like to hear this positive concept of freedom that reasonable people accept.