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/lit/ - Literature

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7151221 No.7151221 [Reply] [Original]

>Mortals are they who can experience death as death. Animals cannot do so. But animals cannot speak either. The essential relation between death and hmguage flashes up before us, but remains still unthought. It can, however, beckon us toward the way in which the nature of language draws us into its concern, and so relates us to itself, in case death belongs together with what reaches out for us, touches us.
>Animals are not mortals and cannot experience death
What did he mean by this?

>> No.7151414

Pretty sure elephants are proven intelligent enough to understand death

>> No.7151432

>>7151221
Has he never had pets or something?

>> No.7152237

>>7151221
How does one experience death, if death is the not merely the ending of life, but an utter lack thereof, and if life is a necessary condition for experience?

>> No.7152252

how do we know we can experience death if we can't prove we're alive to begin with. what if this is all just a dream. you can't know anything really. i don't even know what experience means

>> No.7152258

>>7151221
Even dogs and cats can anticipate their own deaths and wander off from home to die alone, for various reasons.

Or: Heidegger is just saying that animals don't have language and thus don't have a proper concept of anything - let alone death, and thus strictly speaking don't experience death, assuming having the right concept is necessary for the conscious experience of death as such, and that concepts are necessarily linguistic.

This is all nonsense without some definitions and conceptual clarifications, but muh continental philosophy.

>> No.7152268

>>7152252
Woah...d-dude!

>> No.7152281

Animal found toast.

Life's ill,
sometimes life might kill
for the mega
five digits grab mic
mike strike type ill
it's like, real

>> No.7152656

Animals can't realize that death is ownmost nonrelational, certain, indefinite, and not-to-be-bypassed.
The last part is the most important in the distinction.

>> No.7152874

>>7152281
>AND IF THERE'S CRACK IN THE BASEMENT

>> No.7152921
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7152921

>>7151221
Derrida made a huge comment about this, if that interests you. I couldn't resume it well enough (I don't speak English good enough, nor am I enough versed in philosophy), but the point was around the concepts of subject, and what a "world" is in the "poor in world" definition by Heidegger of "the animal".
You could find it in The animal that therefore I am. (I can try to search the specific text if you want)

>> No.7152926

>>7152874

Well, then I guess crackheads stand adjacent.

>> No.7152933

>>7152258
I don't think being able to anticipate death necessitates fully understanding or experiencing it

>> No.7152951

>>7152933
That makes me think about Deleuze point in the Abécédaire ("A is for Animal"), which was quite the contrary of Heidegger. It was something along "humans don't die, when they do, it's as animals, only animals are dying"

>> No.7153301

>>7152933
nobody experiences death

understanding is disconnected from empiricism, this is the tragedy of the rationalism

>> No.7153322

>>7152921
yea, i have seen that. Most of derrida's comments on heidegger besides his building on technos is really shit tbh fam

>> No.7153330

>>7153301
I'm not defining experiencing death as the actual process of dying

>> No.7153368

>>7152933
All Heidegger manages to say here is that animals have different concepts of death than those/that of humans. What a waste of breath. Or am I missing something?

>> No.7153373

>>7153368
he's saying animals have no concept of death beyond biological imperative and therefore death doesn't exist for them

>> No.7153427
File: 150 KB, 388x392, 1442432109958.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7153427

>>7151221

ein Hund
der stirbt
und der weiß
dass er stirbt
wie ein hund
und er sagen kann
dass er weiß
dass er stirbt
ist ein mensch

>> No.7153431

This guy was on the elder god level of pretension

>> No.7153453

Hes a language super freak. Anything without language just doesn't mater to him. He's going to explore death through the vehicle of language and he's going to take you on a ride with him as you read what he has written.

>> No.7154886

>>7153373
Quasi-idealist, anthropocentric nonsense.

>> No.7155032

>>7154886
>anthropocentric
loooooool

>> No.7155693

>>7155032
at any rate, marty gives humans too much credit and animals not enough in terms of conceptual capacity (just google 'animals' experience of death' or 'animal spirituality'); invokes 'mortal', 'language', and 'death' in rather vague senses; and assumes, in quasi-idealist fashion, that in order for something to be experienced as such (i.e., as that something) the subject must possess a sufficiently sophisticated corresponding concept. this all very much confuses me.

maybe if i read more of his shit i would know what the fuck he was saying, but i dont plan on being induced to suicide by unintelligible piffle anytime soon

>>7152933
>it
im inclined to dispense with marty's nebulous general concept of death and just say that no individual creature experiences 'life's end' in the same manner as another - such that it is perhaps proper to say that 'death' here refers to too many different phenomena to be at all sensical

amirite?

>> No.7157217

>>7155693
>at any rate, marty gives humans too much credit and animals not enough in terms of conceptual capacity

I agree with the beginning, but I'm not certain it's "only" a question of conceptual capacity

>> No.7157230

>7151221
Language =/= Experience

The words to describe the experience came after, not before. Even then, words fall short in attempting to convey the imperceptible edict of a direct personal experience.

>> No.7157937

>>7153368

Humans are animals.

>> No.7158068

It would be great that someone posts the whole few pages of Heidegger, so we could speak about it

>> No.7158142

>>7151221
The sophisticated farmer's mentality.

>> No.7158794

>>7152237
Experiencing death is wondering what is death. I think that's what he's trying to say.

>> No.7159282

>>7157937
Animals with greater sophistication of thought - but yeah, I know: Tell it to Heidegger.