/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7117791]

Why do gamers lose their shit at any critical, philosophical or analytical analysis of works in gaming?

Literally every week in communications, English and History tutorials we studied and analyzed literary and filmic works and had wide ranging discussions, yet gamers go batshit if you try to approach games with the same indepth discussion and analysis, why?

Do gamers just not see games as important works that merit such criticism?

[Anonymous No.7117831]

>>7117791
I like video games.

I think it is possible to analyze and criticize them but nobody seems to be able to do it well. Video games haven't been around as long as literature and movies so they haven't developed anywhere near as much and people aren't that used to thinking about them. Also that's an awful poster.

[Anonymous No.7117832]

Any and all criticism or analysis is seen as outsiders attacking the medium based on face value with the intent on shaping games in their own image / to follow their own 'values'.

Sarkeesian has some underlying good points (representation of women is pretty 1 dimensional as a whole in games) but the way they were made were obviously aimed at a non-gaming audience with a pretty holier-than-thou tone and missed a lot of nuance which rightfully drew criticism for her not doing her research. From there, troll behavior comes into it because lol it's the internet what did you expect was going to happen.

[Anonymous No.7117843]

This happens with any media. It is entertainment as security blanket and any attempt to take the favourite comforter and allow an authority figure or a 'mom' to wash it will cause a tantrum.

It certainly isn't unknown in the high arts: any interpretations that conflict with the childish, over-invested, superfanbase will be considered mere academic wankery, or worse, non-canon.

Games have it worst because their interactive nature allows for easy over-investment. There is a greater detachment in film or books as the narrative is fixed. A character dies because the author wrote it that way but in a game you might have saved them with the perfect button mash. You are given the illusion of control which an unfavourable analysis can remove.

[Fun Things Are Fun !!AYUzsUm5h6g No.7117844]

>>7117791
Two reasons.
First one is that they're insecure manchildren who base their identity on their hobby and have a persecution complex since they believe that people dislike them and bullied them because they have a nerdy hobby and not because they're obnoxious people no one wants to be around.

Second one is that they're sick and tired of hearing about this shit. Talk about sexism in video games has been constantly shoved down their throats for years, long before this retarded GG bullshit started, and it was coming from what is supposed to be gaming media. It's one thing if feminist websites talked about sexism in video games and all that inane shit no one cares about, but people who go to gaming websites want to read about their interactive children's toys, not hear about how they're rapists for killing prostitutes in GTA.

>Do gamers just not see games as important works that merit such criticism?
Dude, what? It's the other way around. Only gamers are deluded enough to believe video games have any kind of merit and that it's worth trying to analyze them.

[Anonymous No.7117896]

>>7117791
Feminism is not a universally applicable philosophical system nor is it especially relevant

[Anonymous No.7117930]

>>7117896

why are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.7117940]

literally the dumbest fucking thread from the breadth of 1st page to the tenth

[Anonymous No.7117997]

>>7117896
how so?

[Anonymous No.7118018]

>>7117791
First of all, let's be clear: you're being disingenuous in saying "any critical philosophical analysis." It is feminist and only feminist (read: misandrist) analysis that is unwelcome.

Criticism through other lenses has been largely welcomed or ignored. Would gamers lose their shit at a "Marxist analysis of Final Fantasy VII"? No, they'd probably be indifferent or even very interested. They might even buy books about it.

The reason is that feminist "criticism" of games by males, for males is intrinsically misandrist.

The titles males choose to make and play reflect male self-definition: what we want. To attack our fantasies is to attack us. Males like to fight and like to fuck. So, naturally, that's what we'll make media about, and that media sells.

When a feminist says "it's wrong to want to fight and fuck", they're essentially saying "it is wrong to be male; you must change your nature." But, we males can't change our nature. So, it's fight or die. There's no compromise to be reached.

This is what we males, in our own subculture, choose to make and buy. Pretty, sexy girls and lots of violence. Saving princesses.

What right do women and their supplicants have to criticize media by males, for males? They don't. They should make their own or leave.

But they don't. They whine. They complain--but, they're unnecessary.

So, basically, feminism is misandry. Talk shit, get hit. They should leave.

[Anonymous No.7118042]

Let's look at modes of gaming criticism:

>this game depicts scantily-clad women, it must be bad
>this game has a subpar plot about quantum mechanics, it must be great
>this game messes with player agency, so deep

Subtlety is difficult in video games. The player is so directly involved that they are more likely to notice something than to absorb the information as a database. But gaming narratives have barely evolved, and any game with writing that is even slightly over par is heralded as a masterpiece, even if it is far below par as far as storytelling in general goes. Gamers don't accept critical discussion because the critical discussion rarely has anything to say.

Even something like Bioshock 1 (one of my favorite games) has a fairly subpar story. It relies on a huge twist that actually undermines everything that came before, the characterizations are broad, and it's a propagandist jumble. It doesn't want to raise questions and allow you to draw your own conclusions, but teach you something, and I believe that is weak, weak art.

I've played many games where the stories have deeply affected me, but few that I've felt moved to apply critical thinking to after finishing them. For reference, here are a few off the top of my head:

>Lisa: The Painful RPG
>Hotline Miami 2
>Red Dead Redemption
>Bioshock 2
>Kentucky Route Zero (if the fucking thing ever gets done)

[Anonymous No.7118045]

>>7118018
hahaha
you sperg this hard over video games?
i swear to god that these days you could air drop 4 ww1 vets (in their primes) on new york and 6 weeks later theyd be drinking tea in the oval office and lifting the ban on indoor smoking

[Anonymous No.7118049]

>>7118045
What?

[Anonymous No.7118052]

>>7118045
This is case in point: you don't get it, so you should just fucking leave.

There's a rash of dipshits and complainers in video games lately. They don't like the medium. They don't like the culture. They just show up and cry or whine.

They should go. They're wasting their attention on something they're not interested in.

[Anonymous No.7118054]

>>7118018
>To attack our fantasies is to attack us.
ahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.7118055]

>>7118045
Roastie Detected

The real reason women hate video games and male escapism in general is that it allows males to be male in ways that women can't leech off of.

As women see males as bags of fluid to be used and drained, this is a problem for the future of the female parasite.

[Anonymous No.7118057]

>>7118054
You don't get it, you stupid cunt. That's why you should leave. It's the fucking truth.

[Anonymous No.7118060]

>>7118049
because all the talk of the natural male proclivities comes from wieners crying about muh vidya games and muh arrested development

if someones gunna whinge about men fightin and fuckin get off 4chan and put away the xbox. even queen elizabeth drove an ambulance during the war, because even the women of 80 years ago had higher test counts than 95% of the west's current male population

[Anonymous No.7118062]

>>7118057
No I can't leave

I'm watching Western society self-destruct, collapsing under the weight of too much self-importance

[Anonymous No.7118063]

More important question, OP: why aren't you banned forever?

[Anonymous No.7118068]

>>7118060
Don't worry, Chad. No one is impinging on your manliness. "Excess males" aka "loser males" just found a niche where they could be more or less happy, and now that niche is being needlessly disturbed by... everyone. For no reason.

Just hit the club and fuck someone or do whatever you do. Video games shouldn't concern you.

[Anonymous No.7118070]

>>7118055
>The real reason women hate video games and male escapism in general is that it allows males to be male in ways that women can't leech off of.
>The real reason women hate video games
>is that it allows males to be male
>video games
>males to be male
>The real reason women hate

maybe the real reason women hate video games is because the men who play them are a pack of sad, dickless wonders

[Anonymous No.7118071]

>>7117791
because most of these critics are women, and immature virgin males hate it when women point out the fact of their immaturity.

[Anonymous No.7118073]

>>7118070
Masculinity isn't defined by cunt appeasement, roastie. Your judgment of males is inconsequential.

[Anonymous No.7118074]

>>7118068
>No one is impinging on your manliness
>The titles males choose to make and play reflect male self-definition: what we want. To attack our fantasies is to attack us. Males like to fight and like to fuck.
>"Excess males" aka "loser males"

man, if i didn't think freud was so full of shit...

[Anonymous No.7118079]

>>7118018
proof of the phenomena OP is talking about. pic related.

[Anonymous No.7118081]

>>7118070
this.

[Anonymous No.7118082]

>>7118079
I genuinely gave women a chance, but now I'm a cut and dry masculist after arguing with misandrists.

These games are made by males. They're consumed by males. Stupid cunts need not apply.

[Fun Things Are Fun !!AYUzsUm5h6g No.7118083]

>>7118079
There should be some kind of an internet law that states everyone who posts those shitty internet laws should be banned from the internet.

[Anonymous No.7118085]

>>7118018
How come MRA spergs always use "females" and "males", not "men" and "women"? Are we in a zoo?

[Anonymous No.7118088]

>>7118073
no, that's true.
oddly enough, for the staunchly heterosexual tone of these conversations, the only acceptance or appeasment that seems to be of note is that of another mans, or more specifically, a more superior man. see: the ubermencsh dick gobble

[Anonymous No.7118089]

>>7118082
refer to >>7118079

[Anonymous No.7118090]

>>7118085
Because "female" and "male" have no social connotation and refer to biological difference.

If I call myself a "man" I open myself up to a bunch of spooky criticism about "manning up." This unloads the conversation of all that weight.

That's probably why it triggers female parasites so much. They're deprived of too many of their manipulative tools.

[Anonymous No.7118092]

>>7118090
Is this bait?

[Anonymous No.7118093]

>>7118089
Enjoy your cult, you disgusting parasite. Your idiot sex is a pile of trash.

The male light creates, you syphon off and destroy. Fucking garbage.

The ancients had it right the first time. You should be kept at home. It's not a coincidence all the great civilizations kept you philistines on a fucking leash.

Holy shit, I'm livid.

[Anonymous No.7118103]

>>7118090
>Because "female" and "male" have no social connotation
>If I call myself a "man" I open myself up to a bunch of spooky criticism about "manning up." This unloads the conversation of all that weight.
>I open myself up
>This unloads the conversation of all that weight.
>That's probably why it triggers female parasites so much. They're deprived of too many of their manipulative tools.
>I open myself up to a bunch of spooky criticism
> This unloads the conversation of all that weight.

c'mon m8, has the cum backed up that far it's shorted out the logical part of your brain

[Anonymous No.7118106]

>>7118093
Kek. Does your mother know you get this mad on the internet?

[Anonymous No.7118107]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlEscMLjy0

I will never understand why Gamers REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'd at this video. I thought it was very on point from my experiences of GSG as well. I would also point out how in games like Democracy 3, the best Government you can make is a centrist Social Democracy with socially progressive policy, which I would guess is the developers view, but is quite limiting systematically since for myself, a Socialist, I can't build a Socialist or even State Capitalist society.

[Anonymous No.7118109]

>>7118090
So you are basically admitting that gender is a social construct

[Anonymous No.7118112]

>>7118103
Are you drunk?

Anyway, I explained why males react to misandrists. We make things for ourselves, and people who have no business attacking them, attack them, and act against the spirit of a free society in doing so.

Make your own shit and ignore our stuff. Your "criticism" (actually politically motivated abuse) is pointless because the media in question is not intended for your demographic or made by your demographic.

[Anonymous No.7118116]

I'm sorry, I thought this was /lit/ you fucking cumgargling faggots.

[Anonymous No.7118117]

>>7118112
>politically motivated abuse
What's next, you think people force gamers to wear yellow stars? You're hilarious

[Anonymous No.7118118]

>>7118109
No, actually I believe there are strong general biological differences between males and females, which is another reason I prefer to use those terms. It takes things back to biology.

[Anonymous No.7118120]

>>7118082
ok, whatever you say razorfist

[Anonymous No.7118125]

>>7118117
Pretty much, you Alinskyite cocksucker. You've already all but tarred and feathered us as women-slaughterers when not a single person was harmed as a result of "GamerGate The Great Female Massacre of 2014"

[Anonymous No.7118126]

>>7118018

That's too simple. If you can repeat that but with 100 pages, incomprehensible language, and looking through the lens of Hegelian dialectics, that would be great

[Fun Things Are Fun !!AYUzsUm5h6g No.7118131]

>>7118107
I'm REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing right now, but not because of some Youtube video, but because you implied Civ games are GSG.

[Anonymous No.7118132]

>>7118112
>the media in question is not intended for your demographic or made by your demographic
Wut. Pretty sure vidya companies noticed a while back that half of the population wasn't buying their products, and acted accordingly. The fact that they're trying to sell to girls as well as boys is exactly what makes you so hilariously impotently mad.

[Anonymous No.7118133]

>>7117791
uh, duh, because gamers are children. Children aren't good at critical analysis

[Anonymous No.7118137]

>>7118082
so you hung out with a woman or two, put your foot in your mouth, and dug yourself into such a hole that you can't climb out of it? sour grapes my friend.

[Anonymous No.7118138]

>>7118132
That's fine, but not every game is made for every one.

Stop demonizing games that are obviously pandering exclusively to adolescent males and all will be well.

Games marketed exclusively toward females have existed for decades and there wasn't an issue.

[Anonymous No.7118139]

>>7118107
For all the advances in graphics and iterations of game mechanics, I have yet to play a historical strategy game that challenges or even is conscious of all the assumptions latent in its historical paradigm. Of course, portraying history with an unbiased lens isn't possible, but we could do so much better than we are now. Postmodernist thought has had a huge effect on the current attitudes among scholars of history, and yet it's hard to identify postmodernist influence in historical strategy games.

To me, this is most disappointing in the context of Paradox games, given their keen attention to historical detail. In fact, Civilization, if only by virtue of its abstraction, actually fares slightly better in this regard a lot of the time.

[Anonymous No.7118142]

>>7117791
How much actual gaming analysis have you seen, because most of it is fairly civil. I think the main issue with it is that a great deal of the conversation has been overtaken by gender politics that no-one in the wider community really understands or gives a shit about and clickbait, patreon funded blogs, leading to dumbed-down incendiary bullshit like Polygon and Sarkesian that gets people's jimmies rustled.

If you want some actual interesting analysis that isn't just nerds shouting at each other check out Errant Signal and SuperBunnyHop

[Anonymous No.7118143]

>>7118137
Females are so gynocentric that they can't imagine a male with agency--that is, a male that would choose to dissociate from females due to his own free will.

This kind of voluntary male dissociation is a deep threat to the parasitic matriarchy.

[Anonymous No.7118144]

>>7118112
>Anyway, I explained why males react to misandrists. We make things

hahahahahahahahaha
for as much as you make, you'll never make another exemplary male, fagot

[Anonymous No.7118149]

>>7118143
this gets funnier every time i read it

[Anonymous No.7118150]

>>7118143
>a male that would choose to dissociate from females due to his own free will.

>In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.

This is the best thread ever

[Anonymous No.7118153]

>this topic

Holy lol, even /fit/ isn't this try-hard when trying to be masculine.

There's the above point, and also the fact that /lit/ sincerely believes in the objectivity of literary / critical theory. They're establishment suck ups. If you question the validity of it, you're an anti-intellectual, and in this case also a fedora MRA

[Anonymous No.7118155]

>>7118150
i am so glad i came here

[Anonymous No.7118156]

>>7118070
Then fuck off and leave me alone
I didn't do anything to you

[Anonymous No.7118159]

>>7118149
>>7118150
Keeeeep laughing, just leave us alone, if you please.

The fact of the matter is that "loser male" subcultures continue to improve in quality.

Furries, bronies, gamers--all fringle subcultures comprised mostly of males "who can't get laid"--actually create remarkable things.

As technology improves, these subcultures will continue to evolve, and eventually provide viable lifestyle alternatives to males who don't wish to be burdened by females.

IF you want to laugh, that's fine, but I have a feeling that females are actually threatened by these subcultures--otherwise, they wouldn't be attacking them so viciously.

As I've said, the female parasite depends on the manipulation of male energy. A male that cannot be manipulated is a dire threat to the matriarchy.

[Anonymous No.7118160]

>>7118143
>a male with agency

>i use video games to pretend to be other men with traits that far outstrip mine

[Anonymous No.7118162]

>/v/ quality thread
>teens posting anime

Please not on lit

[Anonymous No.7118164]

>>7118159

[Anonymous No.7118166]

>>7118159
>these subcultures will continue to evolve, and eventually provide viable lifestyle alternatives to males who don't wish to be burdened by females.

gay clubs have been common and socially accepted for decades m8

[Anonymous No.7118169]

>>7118107
I'm surprised Sargon of Akkad, Razorfist or MundaneMatt aren't in the comments being useful idiots for Stormfront and Briebart.

[Anonymous No.7118171]

>>7118166
Not everyone is fortunate enough to be gay or bi. Maybe there will be some way to force ourselves gay.

If females continue their vicious attack on sexual representations of females in media, then universal male gayness may be the only viable alternative to the feminarchy.

[Anonymous No.7118172]

>>7118159
I know who you are now!

>As I've said, the female parasite depends on the manipulation of male energy. A male that cannot be manipulated is a dire threat to the matriarchy.

Compare:

>General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
>Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.
>General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

[Anonymous No.7118173]

>>7118159
mate, i have to attend a funeral in a couple of hours and i'm going to be giggling about this the whole time. if i survive, i'll light a wee candle and say a wee prayer to the sacred heart for you

[Anonymous No.7118176]

>>7118173
Godbless anon. You're fighting the good fight, the fight against the inappropriate giggle at unfortunate times

[Anonymous No.7118178]

>>7118173
t-thanks

[Anonymous No.7118179]

>>7117791
>games
>art
>meriting criticism beyond basic gameplay and story elements

Seriously?

[Anonymous No.7118181]

>>7118178

eat shit fucking scumbag stutterposter

[Anonymous No.7118183]

>>7117791
It's because most gamers are autistic, uneducated man-children who are absolutely terrified of women.

[Anonymous No.7118190]

>>7118181
But I don't like shit, so I'd never eat it.

[Anonymous No.7118191]

>>7118042
>But gaming narratives have barely evolved, and any game with writing that is even slightly over par is heralded as a masterpiece, even if it is far below par as far as storytelling in general goes

This especially say Bioshock Infinite, which is praised for its terrible examination of racism when the game actually has many racist and anti-leftist/anti-radical implications in its presentation of the Vox Populi.

[Anonymous No.7118195]

>>7118171
this was funny for a while but i'm gunna be serious with you here. you're almost definitely gay and need to work out where you stand before you isolate yourself from everything and your life becomes and empty, wasted vessel

[Anonymous No.7118200]

>>7118195
Nah, I'm not gay--prison gay at most. I am a misogynist, though.

It's possible to be physically attracted to women but despise them in every other way. That's me.

I've seen too many males eaten alive by women, and the women never own up or give a shit. They're demons.

[Anonymous No.7118208]

that's not really the case, I remember a nietzsche-fag who analyzed video games really thoroughly and he was fairly well-received.

I think it's more that feminism is uniquely obnoxious and it makes sense to avoid it like the plague. it's a parasitic industry that forces hobbies to change to make room for itself, where it'll keep forcing change to justify its presence in the hobby.

>okay video games have attained gender equality, time to pack it up
^ won't happen

I think everyone knows this, including feminists.

[Anonymous No.7118209]

Nobody wants their medium of choice being hijacked to push political or social agendas. It's the same reaction that comic fans have to reboots of their favorite franchises with women and colored people in the leading roles.

Fuck off with this shit.

[Anonymous No.7118212]

>>7117791

The feminists started the attack by using feminist critique, a great form of literary analysis used to make more compelling characters and stories into a morality by which to judge gamers. people who were unaware they were comitting a crime.

Nobody likes to have some foreign morality foisted on them and then condemned by it.

[Anonymous No.7118214]

>>7117832
>Sarkeesian has some underlying good points (representation of women is pretty 1 dimensional as a whole in games) but the way they were made were obviously aimed at a non-gaming audience with a pretty holier-than-thou tone and missed a lot of nuance which rightfully drew criticism for her not doing her research

There is a great feminist and philosophical critique of Anita on Youtube called TTvFF

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9IOjFRFjrOnuzSm_E95EOI0uVsZrAlsN

Very interesting to watch since its a critique from someone who actually knows what he is talking about and doesn't resort to straw feminism, Quotemining and fallacies like say Sargon or Thunderf00t (he actually does a video series debunking their bullshit as well).

I think there is a lot to be said about sexism and representation of women in gaming, but Anita isn't exactly a good personality for it since she comes off as stuck up and holier than thou.

[Anonymous No.7118216]

>>7118139

PoMo is intellectual chloroform. It has no business outside the gas chambers of the universities.

[Anonymous No.7118219]

"there aren't enough women/browns" =/= indepth analysis
games won't ascend until the developers, audience and critics grow up

[Anonymous No.7118223]

>>7118200
ok gay boy

[Anonymous No.7118226]

>>7118107
As odd as it sounds I think the Europa Universalis series is not too Eurocentric in its design, while the whole purpose of the series is to play as any European society through the ages it goes against Eurocentrism in its gameplay.

The games provide no goal to you, meaning unlike Civilisation where the sole way to win is to expand in EU the lack of defined goals means you can set yourself any goal you wish. If you want to be one of the many German city states and simply want to live within your own boundaries and wish to survive in a humble life, the game considers that a valid play style. If you want to play as a small pocket of Irish resistance in Britain and reject imperialism for a small scale agrarian life then you can.

EU's attention to detail also means that the small number of non-European areas available are fully fleshed out with historical accuracy for these societies, it certainly portrays coastal African nations and Native American tribes far better than most other games which simply don't acknowledge their existence.

Also I think it needs to be noted that games are disproportionately Eurocentric when observing history no matter the genre. Just look at the Assassin's Creed games where the locations visited are either European or under European influence (however this is somewhat justifiable by the fact they go for a Templar VS Assassins plotline which does imply a necessary level of Western influence for the Templars to be present).
I personally can't name a single historical game set anywhere in Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Asia (the 'stans'), South East Asia, Oceania or South America (or pre-colonial North America).

[Anonymous No.7118228]

>>7118149
>>7118150

Herbivore culture is substantial in Japan and it has begun to spread elsewhere. These are the people who are going to develop sex robots and advanced virtual reality.

[Anonymous No.7118229]

>>7118223
I wish :(

[Anonymous No.7118230]

>>7118209
They are already pushing political and social agendas. Gamers just don't want agendas pushed that they don't already agree with. It is the wish-fulfillment, echo chamber, a comfort zone where they can stay comfortably stunted.

[Anonymous No.7118233]

>>7118230
"stunted" = "not surrendering time and resources to a female" = free

[Anonymous No.7118238]

>>7118230
And feminism is the only agenda being pushed on them that they reject?

[Anonymous No.7118239]

>>7118230
are we talking about "gamers" or e-feminists

[Anonymous No.7118241]

>>7118159
>As I've said, the female parasite depends on the manipulation of male energy. A male that cannot be manipulated is a dire threat to the matriarchy.

If you can't control your woman, you're a failure.

[Anonymous No.7118244]

>>7118230

Most games are and have been apolitical. Plenty of people ignored or didn't care for the political rambling in the Metal Gear Solid franchise, for instance. If a particular character in a game wants to have political ideas or a social agenda, that is one thing. But to make the entire game a medium for this or that message, in the way Upton Sinclair made his The Jungle a medium for promoting communism, is really to debase the final product.

[Anonymous No.7118248]

>>7118226
I think I'd have agreed with you on first glance, but when you start to delve deeper into the mechanics it becomes clear that "imperialist-statist" assumptions are heavily ingrained into the game's paradigm.

Technology is a a direct product of power, the primary currency of the game, and specific (i.e. European) countries are favored here simply by virtue of being Western, even though Europe was arguably less advanced than other parts of the world at the start date of 1444.

Trade is just a unidirectional flow rigged to benefit Europe first and foremost. Trade company and colonial regions are hard coded into the game. The logistical challenges and internal tensions that come along with empire-building are all but ignored.

You could go a lot deeper than that, but the point is that while Paradox has provided a lot of detail in certain parts of the world, mechanically they have delivered a system that is firmly couched in views of history (western exceptionalism, great man theory, favoring expansionist territorial states, etc.) that include many assumptions that academia began to reject decades ago. Yes, you can still play a non-expansionist game, but aside from random events it's not particularly engaging compared to normal play.

[Anonymous No.7118255]

>>7118200
>It's possible to be physically attracted to women but despise them in every other way. That's me.

you got a long road ahead of you. I can honestly say you haven't lived through how bad a person can truly be if you still believe one sex can be worse than another. men and women dicking on each other in relationships or at work is nothing son. But keep hating, you'll either become the monster or be eaten by it.

[Anonymous No.7118261]

>>7118248

Western civilization is basically the model for all advanced modern civilization. Free trade and democracy are largely inventions of the West.

I really don't see how Chinese or Indian civilization count for much in comparison, although they have rich histories.

[Anonymous No.7118264]

>>7118241

[Anonymous No.7118265]

>>7118248
Expansionism is competitive and thus more fun
Game mechanics came first when designing the game

[Anonymous No.7118278]

>>7118264
In a caring way, you moron.

[Anonymous No.7118279]

>>7118200
No, you are unbelievably gay.

[Anonymous No.7118280]

>>7118261
>I really don't see how Chinese or Indian civilization count for much in comparison
>Indian civilization count for much
>writing in english on a literature forum

[Anonymous No.7118287]

>>7118279
...
But I am sexually aroused by nude females.

[Anonymous No.7118290]

>>7118287
not when you type a sentence like that you aren't

[Anonymous No.7118293]

>>7118107
>arbitrary banners and borders they fight for
This guy's review is more warped by his worldview than the creators, by far.

Only in the modern western world would you live a sheltered enough existence to denounce the concept of borders, nation, heritage, and pride so thoughtlessly. He mentions it as an aside, without even thinking about it. He takes his view that borders are 100% arbitrary as a given. His liberal(libertarian?) western bias is far worse than the game's Eurocentric bias (which makes sense anyway, it's called "Civilization", not "Mbutu's Hunting Adventure").

The rest of the video seems to be him complaining because it's a video game with limitations. The only remotely valid point I heard before I shut it off was that you can't colonize or form city-states.

He may as well complain that you can't control your fighting stance in Street Fighter or choose what type of kung fu fist you want to use on each punch.

[Anonymous No.7118295]

>>7118248
Wanting to delve into history and historiography with a basic understanding of pomo and how its fucked histry as we know it - Im familair with the concepts of western exceptionalism and great man theory but could you please name their alternatives / antecedents? Sorry am typing on a phone

[Anonymous No.7118301]

Well since this thread is going all over the place, has anyone tried to watch Games as Lit. 101? Surprised no one on here has started making videos like this before this guy got a hold of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nWllHeBi-o

[Anonymous No.7118302]

>Playing Victoria
>Socialism and State Capitalism are mid tier economic developments
>Hayek Free Market Capitalism is end game
>In 2015 real world, the worlds fastest growing economies are Market Socialist (State Capitalist with highly managed private sector)

[Anonymous No.7118310]

>>7118214
>There is a great feminist and philosophical critique of Anita on Youtube called TTvFF
I looked at some of it, it's shit.

[Anonymous No.7118311]

>>7118302

They're only the fastest growing because they've been completely stagnant for centuries. At any rate it's still the capitalist segment of the economy that supports the rest.

The West is starting to stagnate now because of the drift towards socialism.

[Anonymous No.7118317]

>>7118302
>Market Socialist (State Capitalist with highly managed private sector)
that isn't market socialist

[Anonymous No.7118319]

>>7118295
The beginning of the end of Great Man theory was with the interests in "social history" around the turn of the century. It was a by-product, in my opinion, of history becoming more disciplined academically and a mode of inquisitiveness that shifted from simply extolling great virtues of the past to actually finding out how people lived their lives. People became interested in finding "The Truth", and this required asking questions about how ordinary folk lived their lives.

In the 19th century, the historical profession was created by rich dudes from Europe. Most of these guys had titles and lineages, so it's no surprise that they focused their stories on the great men of the past--they considered themselves to be of the same ilk. They even occasionally made direct statements (I can't find any quotes right now) about how they didn't care what ordinary people were doing because ordinary people didn't do shit to influence history. Considering the background of these historians (nobility), it's no surprise.

I'm not exactly sure why the shift took place. But by the end of the 19th century an interest in Social History starts to show up. It's undoubtedly related to the various social movements happening in the last quarter of the 19th century. Marxism. Non-nobles (in the U.S. especially) getting into the profession. The imperialist ventures of Europe caused intellectuals to examine the nature of things like socio-economic status, language, and culture. People start examining things like social structure, and later, the environment.

Yada yada yada, by the post-war era you have a guy like Fernand Braudel not only saying that Great Men were unimportant...but that the actions of all individuals were unimportant in the grand scheme of life, which was more or less environmentally determined.

[Anonymous No.7118326]

>>7118302

Growth is not the only indicator of economic and social health. The Soviet economy grew explosively after the revolution but at a cost of millions of lives lost to famine as it was forcibly transformed from an agrarian society to an industrial one.

Growth doesn't do you much good when government is chewing up all the proceeds.

[Anonymous No.7118329]

>>7118255
I'm not your "son", you wannabe old dad loser. Anything you say is invalidated by being a 50 year old on an image board.

[Anonymous No.7118330]

>>7118317
According to China and Vietnam it is. (I know market socialism as a discipline is a more syndicalist/coop economy)

[Anonymous No.7118332]

>>7118319

Yes yes we know the whole story, everything has been drifting towards the slave's account and away from the master's account. It's very tedious and we could do without being reminded how history has fallen into contempt just like all the other soft sciences.

[Anonymous No.7118338]

>>7118319

Great man theory versus great mob theory.

I'll stick with the great men, if it's all the same. Much more interesting.

[Anonymous No.7118343]

>>7118295
The 'Great Man Theory' is one that was popular in the early-mid nineteenth century. It suggested that "the course of human history results largely from the actions of Great Men", or in other words, that certain figures were responsible for the bulk of the goings on in the world.

The counter-argument to this theory came via Herbert Spencer, who said:

>"Those who regard the histories of societies as the histories of their great men, and think that these great men shape the fates of their societies, overlook the truth that such great men are the products of their societies."

Basically, Spencer is claiming that great men wouldn't necessarily exist outside their societies. If you were to remove Napoleon from eighteenth century France, where he grew up, and instead placed him in another place and era, his life would take a different path, not guaranteed to be one of 'greatness'. Spencer's counter-argument asks us to inspect the context of these 'great men', rather than just accepting their greatness as inherent.

This is in effect, one of the cons of 'great man' history. We are lulled into thinking of certain men as the key figures of a time or place, and neglect to look beyond to what made them that way. We are also led to believe that these people are somehow the sole forces for change or moves of history. If history views events this way, then it forgets the people who participated. Napoleon invaded Russia with over half a million troops. A great man history reduces those men to cannon fodder, who are of little or no use to the historical record. Yet if studied, we can learn about society at that point in time - the feelings of the soldiers towards the war and their officers, how their lives were affected by war, and any number of other bits of information that may come up in journals, diaries, and letters.

[Anonymous No.7118345]

>>7118311
economies haven't stagnated. GDP growth for most western countries still equates to a staggering amount in real dollars. the high end of the private sector are reaping it in, banks are making billions off overdraft fees alone.
The stagnation you and i feel is a stagnation in the growth of living quality, at least when compared with the prior generation or two.
we're living in a worldwide economy now. you get the iphone cheap because depat makes the thing in bangladesh. but for the first time, depat is making money, so his quality of living is growing at an incredible rate (a la europe post industrialisation, the us post depression/war, china post needing to build a country). inversely you're quality of life grows at a slower rate due to this. also, massive infrastructure reformation has, for all intents and purposes, become secondary to the consolidation of western prosperity. in essence, most of what we needed built has been built, and as such the potential for rapid economic expansion has been capped.
Whitey needs to either fight for a more equitable wage distribution or settle in to a comfortable life until the rest of the world catches up, then it's time for space.
also, depat and his family finally get to eat, so shut the fuck up whining

[Anonymous No.7118350]

>>7118330
if the workers don't own the means of production it's not socialism
attributing china's growth to state intervention is hand waving laziness

[Anonymous No.7118351]

>>7118329
haha fine, go back to hanging around your mates, talking about how 'attracted' you are to girls, then staring at their bare chests while they sleep over at yours. i'm sure nobody will ever figure it out

[Anonymous No.7118356]

>>7118345

Lel wage distribution doesn't matter. Let the market decide what each person's labor is worth. I'd rather keep my personal liberty than live in a society that enforces some arbitrary equity amongst its citizens

[Anonymous No.7118363]

>>7118350
If you accept the Leninist definition of Socialism as the transition from Capitalism too Communism, then China is Socialist as it is has a Communist party with a stated end goal of Communism and its simply controlling a massive state capitalist economy in the historical development towards a Communist society.

[Anonymous No.7118365]

>>7118363
you're ignoring that China came OUT of communism and show no signs of going back into it

[Anonymous No.7118367]

>>7118356
in that case the market is working it out, and get ready for that sweet indian/south-east asian dick to cuck the hell out of western economic dominance. because when the few have the money they'll just take it where they can make more, they wont sit around feeding you scraps forever.
remember, there is no altruism, there is only the market

[Anonymous No.7118373]

>>7118367

Cheaper goods let me keep more of my money for saving, investment, spending, etc. I don't see the problem.

[Anonymous No.7118375]

Women are a meme

[Anonymous No.7118380]

>>7118365
China came out of Stalinist policies into a more state-managed Capitalist economy, the vast majority of Chinas economy is state-managed, something like 85% of their workforce in some way works for the state, "private" industry and agricultural land in china is only "leased" legally from the state.

The CCP's stated goal is Communism, using diamat method, they argued that Capitalist development must occur before Communism, China is just following Lenin's own NEP.

China is "Socialist" if you accept Leninist terminology and philosophy, its how Chinas justfied it.

[Anonymous No.7118383]

>>7118380

Faulty economics is the reason China has been so incredibly inefficient over the years. They only recently surpassed the United States in GDP despite having 4 times as many people.

[Anonymous No.7118397]

>>7118373
but when the base consumer's dollar is worth comparatively less, and they have less of it, in a less advantageous economy, then the centre of market consumption will move from the west to other, more profitable markets. all of a sudden it wont be economically viable for a company to cop the logistical cost for their product being shipped across and ocean or a continent.
come to aus and buy a bottle of french wine for an anecdotal example.
don't think it wont happen, india and china have 2 bil more people than the US, how long do you think muh freedom and muh american exceptionalism can hold off the sheer weight of numbers?

conservatives
>but what about me, right now?

[Anonymous No.7118402]

>>7118191
>>7118042
I love Bioshock 2 because it doesn't try to say what ideology is right or wrong. All you see is the ruins of both Ryan's and Lamb's.

But it does imply (if you take the good ending) that the only truly right choice is compassion, and I think that's a worthy message.

[Anonymous No.7118410]

>>7118397

Why would the dollar be less, apart from government induced inflation?

And how the hell would more equitable wage distribution make the United States more competitive on the global market?

Emerging economies are good for everyone. Soon Apple will be making phones in China for peasants in Bangladesh. American shareholders and businessmen will reap the profits.

[Anonymous No.7118414]

>>7118338
Great men theory is accurate. It's the Newtons and Hitlers and Einsteins that propel society.

Attacks on the great men theory are rooted in egalitarian feelings (not historical accuracy). Essentially "but all men are created equal!" butthurt.

[Anonymous No.7118423]

>>7118414

Of course. But even if it weren't a matter of accuracy, I would still prefer the history of great men to the history of slaves and peasants.

[Anonymous No.7118435]

>>7118410
so what about the american everyman, the consumer of the goods the american investor makes?
if the everyman consumer can't afford to go to the store to buy the item, then the store owner doesn't make the money.
the store owner can't invest in growing his business or opening a second.
the store owners wealth does not improve to the point of being able to invest externally.
the store owner has to lay off people, who then don't go and purchase in another shop, thus extending the issue.

emerging economies are good for everyone, if everyone gets a cut. otherwise financial centres will just move from one area to another and the wealth will follow.

I got no horse in this race, i hope it works out across the board, but the west is deluded if it thinks it can come out on top through friedman economics

[Anonymous No.7118444]

>>7118435

The American everyman, who presumably has a job, benefits from free trade just like everyone else. If the average consumer can't afford a particular item, then the stores can't sell it. What happens then? Either the consumer buys a cheaper alternative, or the seller offers it at a lower price. That's what the market allows for.

Most domestic businesses are not in a position to offer their goods and services to foreign countries no matter how wealthy the consumers there may be.

[Anonymous No.7118460]

>>7118255
he wants to become the monster and he'll find any reason to do so, just that now he's probably some shut-in virgin who claims he used to be the "nice guy".
that's why this world will keep going on the way it goes.

[Anonymous No.7118468]

>>7118444
no, the domestic business needs the buying power to purchase most goods through a middleman, who needs the buying power to purchase their goods from a foreign producer.
the intellectual debate of 'the consumer will either buy a cheaper item or the business will sell at a cheaper price' is all well and good when western buying power is still strong(ish). all it takes though is a few bad days on the market and the domestic consumer isn't a thing, especially when personal debt is so high.

[Anonymous No.7118527]

>>7118460
Fuck off, misandrist. If I were a women saying this kind of shit, you wouldn't bat an eye.

However, since males do the majority of the work in the world and aren't expected to act like retarded children, we somehow are to be attacked.

What you are seeing, this withdrawal of males, is just males directing resources toward themselves instead of the female parasite.

[Anonymous No.7118541]

>>7118107
>Let's start with the title, "Civilization." That's sort of a troubling word in and of itself, right? It's hard to call something civilized without making a value judgement against peoples that don't normally get considered a proper civilization.
Stopped watching there

[Anonymous No.7118554]

>>7118541
>treehugging academics worship indigenous tribes
>gloss over the fact that they rape and butcher their children in "initiation rituals"
>gloss over the fact that they were bloodthirsty savages that practiced human sacrifice

[Anonymous No.7118647]

In case anyone wants to talk vidya analysis instead of history and politics: mongoloid edition, I'm watching this and it's quite interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBN3R0m31bA

[Anonymous No.7118666]

/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7118711]

>>7118647
>comments are disabled for this video
o i am laffin

[Anonymous No.7118843]

>>7117791
internet politics is literally garbage politics

if you engage in internet politics kill yourself

[Anonymous No.7118853]

>>7118302
Anarcho-liberalism doesn't make any fucking sense Jesus Christ. There was no such political ideology at the time, and the closest you get to it in actual history would be the Jacobins, who are already in the game.

Fucking hell, why don't they just add in ACTUAL anarchists? And why the fuck are there still capitalists under state socialism?

[Anonymous No.7119055]

>>7117791
Because usually always the criticism is total bullshit.

[Anonymous No.7119287]

>>7117930
Maybe its the same reason that you are a child with no argument?

>>7117997
Probably because the sort of minutia feminism is focussed on is the sexism of videogames. A philosophical agenda shouldn't have to go out of its way to find problems that it can substaniate its relevance upon. Besides which, it seems to be a rather shortsighted look at what is actually a fundamentally economic issue.

[Anonymous No.7119439]

>>7118018
Way to prove the OP right, you fucking retard.