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/lit/ - Literature

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7117780 No.7117780 [Reply] [Original]

>still waiting for the book that diagnoses the excruciating irony of millenial culture and the inability to communicate sincerely or without adhering to extremely limiting language constructs, i.e. memes
>realise that I must write that book if no-one else will

>> No.7117782

>>7117780
You don't need a book to "dissect" it: its a meme you dip.

>> No.7117784

>>7117780
Quite LITERALLY taipei m8...

>> No.7117798

Maybe watch The Comedy? You probably already have.

>> No.7117803
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7117803

>>7117798
I have and it's one of my favourite films. I mean something more along the lines of a Freudian diagnosis rather than a piece of fiction. Something along the lines of The Culture of Narcissism which an anon here recommended to me a week ago. A fantastic book, but one that sorely needs updating.

>> No.7117819

>>7117803
>I mean something more along the lines of a Freudian diagnosis
You do know Žižek publishes?

>> No.7117862

>>7117819
I don't think he has really discussed the issue I'm talking about. I think his age disconnects him from understanding the condition somewhat anyway.

>> No.7117864

New sincerity and all that shit is bollocks that doesn't exist outside of small literary circles and 4chan.

>> No.7117880

I think it's kind of irrelevant. If you personally want to be sincere in any way that is meaningful to you, nothing is stopping you. It's too late for a cultural shift back into a kind of innocent sincerity, but individual people can still do it.

>> No.7117883

>>7117862
…

>> No.7117891

You diagnose, dissect and deconstruct the shit out of modern culture, They still don't care and you're not going to do anything worth while with that information.

>> No.7117911
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7117911

it's coming soon man

>> No.7117918

It was to be the theme of my novel (along with accelerationism), but then I realized I'm mostly living in one when ironicism is not quite at that level, if not completely, and the book would be irrelevant.

>> No.7117943

get off the internet some time, the world isn't as bad as u think!

>> No.7117952

>>7117943
>the world isn't as bad as u think!
It's worse that now I can only think in meta thought-patterns I learned from the internet.

>> No.7117953
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7117953

>>7117943
nice try

>> No.7117960

There is no modernity. History does not bend away from the primitive and towards the utopic. Oceans of man rise and fall without direction or purpose. And they have such strange qualities, each and all of them!

"O tempora, O mores" said Cicero, who is oft quoted.

Can an irony really be excruciating?

If the customs of your people pain you, then break them. But don't go off writing a treaties when all you really wish to say is,

"I want to change because I have heard whispers that there is something beautiful about life, but I must admit I am tempted by the ugliness that blinds me to it"

>> No.7117978

There's literally no need for it. The fact is contemporary (internet) culture is self-aware of it's being ironically ironic most of the time, and justifies being so because it's fun. Kids with anime avatars on youtube will post pro-white-pride comments on minute and post how sad they are in the comments section of an anime OS the next. If anything it's a lack of seriousness which is most prevalent, with people supporting "memes" without care for any real life consequences. It's just a more humorous and less worrying version of the sort of mentality found on early /b/ where people just didn't care about what happened in real life as a result of their actions. But that early detachment experienced on the internet has slowly been bridged by a sort of semi-ironic empathy with others who subtly identify themselves via their vocabulary and understanding of references and in-jokes. The main noteworthy thing IMO is the genuine depression of those who have only been able to find genuine companionship (if only anonymously) online and who are entirely isolated from other people. Some have jobs, but it appears that more and more are becoming NEET and follow the trend in Japan. Eventually, the conclusion to this will be a mass self-exile to [redacted]*

*information is redacted here as the author does not want to share his conclusion in this context, as it forms a central part of a novel he is currently writing which deals with the themes discussed in this thread.

>> No.7118206

>>7117780
Everything is postmodern in a post-postmodern world, dumbfuck. Meta awareness and memes are unavoidable consequences of developing culture and globalization.

>> No.7118257
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7118257

>>7117978
Hikikomore

>> No.7118270

>>7117953
i liked that movie a lot. The fight scene was strange though.

>> No.7118281

>>7118270
One of my favorite "facts" about the movie is that they made the fight-scene so awkwardly long because one of the guys was a famous wrestler back then - pure fanservice.

>> No.7118285

>>7117780
God I hate Postmodernism.

Sometimes I wish we could just go back to plain old Modernism.

>> No.7118294

>>7117960
this guy is onto something. if the culture around you is excrutiating, go out and try to break away from the patterns. i bet you spend most of your time alone in your room, thinking about how all of 'them' are behaving like idiots, without actually creating our engaging in anything else than shitposting on the internet yourself. also pro tip: your neat models for explaining cultural behaviour are not as rigid as you think, and they certainly correlate only to a small part of the populace of society

>> No.7118315

>>7118294
Shoot own head dingus.
Don't accuse hypothetical people of armchair psychology while doing that exact thing.
Freak.

>> No.7118324

>>7117780
>or without adhering to extremely limiting language constructs, i.e. memes
You just have written out these thoughts in full prose

>> No.7118328

>>7117862
You'd be surprised, Anon.

>> No.7118333

>>7117960
Fukuyama pls go

>> No.7118340

>>7118324
> in full prose
Also in greentext :^)

Anyway, I'm talking about an inclination rather than an inability. Obviously we CAN communicate in regular prose, but these language constructs, far now from being a conscious attempt at humour, are now part of our natural thought-patterns.

>> No.7118733

>>7118315
takes one to know one etc

>> No.7118746

>>7117803
One of my favourite books, his other stuff is great too.

>> No.7118751

>>7117780
If you're going to write a zeitgeist book, something inherently doomed to ephemera, you might as well embrace the "extremely limiting language constructs," since they're inseparable from the rest of culture.

>> No.7118762

>>7118751
>something inherently doomed to ephemera
give me a fucking break

>> No.7118808

>>7117978
Agree with this.

The novel I'm writing is about the impossibility of being serious in the modern world.

>> No.7118814

>>7118762

Don't be an idiot.

>> No.7118846
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7118846

>>7118762
You're welcome to present a counterexample

>> No.7118895

>>7117911
I can't fucking wait

>> No.7118917

>>7117978
I wanna read your novel m8.

>> No.7118926

>>7117780
didn't david foster wallace write about this a little bit? Not with millennials but the whole over saturation of irony thing.

>> No.7118938

>>7118808
Oh that sounds riveting and not boring and masturbatory in the least

>> No.7118942

>>7118281
The two actors acted really well, genuinely beating each other up the entire scene. It was so good that the director felt that cutting the scene would undermine the quality.

>> No.7118972
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7118972

>>7117780
The story of Filthy Frank's life is a shit show of taking irony too far and getting hurt by it.

Dude makes this bizarre, highly ironic show, which becomes highly popular (started the Harlem Shake thing actually) and is like 100% memes after a year or so, but the irony ACTUALLY GOT TO THE ARTIST and he revealed his natural voice and mannerisms in a video where he also confessed that he had to slow down output because of the meds he was taking for epilepsy. At the same time as the reveal video, he began making sincere vlog entries and releasing some really pretty trance music he'd been making at the same time he was working on the show.

Most fans responded with memes from the show instead of sincere appreciation for his struggle and music, spamming the comment sections of his vlogs and music videos with variants on, "I have cancer, boss," a tagline of one of the show's characters. This so upset the guy behind the show that he took down all the vlogs and music, and will still request that reuploads of his reveal video be taken down from youtube.

If you want to hate irony, this is the story for you.

>> No.7119052

The answer to the woes of modern man is found in the mores of Tradition and the truth of spirituality. The emptiness we all have felt and tried to hide from with irony is the spiritual desolation of our souls.

>> No.7119071

>>7119052
I secretly think this, but I also suspect I am missing something. I can't really imagine irony somehow entirely defeating the human spirit.

>> No.7119155

Why should non-irony even be preferable?

>> No.7119183

People have been writing novels about society being atomised for a long time. Steppenwolf much? But honestly maybe try The Circle by Dave Eggers. Not particularly well-written and more of a polemic than a well-worked novel but still, a very apt and timely criticism of roughly the sort I think you're looking for (even if it's meme-free)

>> No.7119239

>>7119155
>whats wrong with being a fake ass tryhard who gets shook about the prospect of being sincere and direct in communication without having to play elaborate language games or desperately trying to promote their brand with tired cynicism and withered hipster irony?

Extra sugar with that faggot

>> No.7119259

>>7117803
>a Freudian diagnosis rather than a piece of fiction.
Freud was a charlatan who pleased the men that paid him by making up bullshit theories about people. His works ARE pieces of fiction.

>> No.7119262
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7119262

>>7117780
OH NO YOU DON'T THATS WHAT IM DOING

>> No.7119265

>>7119239
If that's what you call problematic irony in 2015 you're really out of the loop
Go back to reading the decade old piratecloth meme stuff

>> No.7119326

>>7119052
Partly correct. Tradition can tell us a lot but it's untenable to return to tradition. It's time to forge a new one that accounts for what we've learned over the centuries without going full fedora or medieval.

>> No.7119342

>>7119326
This I can agree with. We have to overcome nostalgia just as much as we need to overcome irony.

>> No.7119353

>>7119326
>>7119342
So how?

>> No.7119388

>>7119353
Read Prometheus Rising and start thinking about what kind of society would promote the most people gaining positive control over their own minds. It's a matter of educating people to explore their own minds and cutting out certain destructive aspects of culture like sensationalist media and conventional organized religion.

>> No.7119401

>>7117862

top kek the irony

you are so millennial, epic banter my friend

>> No.7119412

>>7118972

link? Filthy still does videos but i haven't seen the reveal one

>> No.7119426

>>7119412
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-khkDjTRFkc

Managed to find one still up. Sometimes they come down in a hurry. Like I said, he doesn't want anyone to see it because he hated how people responded.

To be fair to his fans, it's a little lame how he tries to talk to the characters as himself and the Filthy Frank character's clothing and makeup really are better than Joji's normal appearance for what he does online.

>> No.7119432
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7119432

>>7119426

>filthy frank is a normie

my world is in shatters

>> No.7119452

>>7119432
Dude he's full on Hapa Chad. I bet he's fucked double digit numbers of Japanese school girls after a long day of harassing people in a lycra suit.

Seriously though, he's way more talented than he gets credit for. He probably could have made a small name for himself just with his music of the Filthy Frank stuff hadn't taken off so hard.

I'd love to know where he goes to college.

>> No.7119466
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7119466

>>7119452
Forgot pic. He looks like a bitch in that video but he cleans up nicely.

>> No.7119520

>>7118926
Dave Eggers sort of did too

>> No.7120100

>>7117978
reading about people using the internet is always boring. Consider that if that's part of your novel. You can mention it, but if there's a character or something that spends time on the internet it will be a terrible read. As an example, read The Circle by Eggers. Interesting idea but turns out to be boring trash

>> No.7120137

>>7117780
Lolmao Serial Experiments Lain already did that
Cucked by animu!

>> No.7120140

Tundra

>> No.7121675

What is this "irony" and "post-irony" you are talking about? Could you give me an example, please?

>> No.7122256

Kecak

>> No.7122260

>>7117803
>Freudian
You do realize he has been considered a hack for longer than you've been alive, right? Maybe don't write something in a field in which you don't even have the most basic knowledge.

>> No.7122307

>>7122260
Sorry, I should have said psychoanalytic critique. I realise the discipline is still widely considered a pseudo-science, but its still a good filter to describe social phenomena.

>> No.7122322

>>7118938
Good, the world needs more boring serious things and less memelord spergs.