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7114408 No.7114408 [Reply] [Original]

How's it feel to be over 14 and still believe in free will?

>> No.7114618

>>7114408
how does it feel to be exactly 14 and yet to discover the wikipedia page for compatibilism

>> No.7114627

Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh

>> No.7114632

>>7114408
>How's it feel to be over 14

lmao fuck off grandpa

>> No.7115508

Determinism is for Fatalists. Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle, doesn't outright proof Free will but strongly suggests it and keeps it compatible with our scientific worldview. (It makes it unpossible even for Russels Demon to predict/Calculate the future. Thus the future is not set in Stone and fluid and actually can be changed by People and thus free will.

>> No.7115512

>>7115508
How do you equate uncertainty or unpredictability with freedom of choice? Chaos does not imply the order you hope it does, anon.

>> No.7115518

>>7115512
Right. If things do not occur deterministically, but rather, randomly, this is no better for free willers

>> No.7115795

I cant believe retards still think that roughly knowing what an electron particle behaves like means nything when we talk of full scale organisms like humans.
An electron and lightning are two completely different things.
Like a single frame is different than a movie you watch.
You cannot understand the mechanism that turns frames into moving images by examining individual frames. No matter how many of them you will examine.

>> No.7115810

What's it like being an edgy atheist who read Nietzsche for the first time today?

>> No.7116072

How does believing in free will change your life in any way? its not like there is a switch that grants you value points for knowing the correct answer

>> No.7116100
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7116100

>>7114618
>compatibilism

You mean when I can make decisions in some scenarios but not in others for no reason

>> No.7116121

>>7116100
Well, if you are gonna read the wiki page at least raed it right.
You can make free willed choiced when nobody is stopping you and you cant when someone or something is, like a jail cell.

>> No.7116154

>>7115810
hah! Top meme dude!

>> No.7116160

>>7114408
I believe in the illusion of free will, which is identical to the "reality" of free will. In either case, I gather information and make decisions.

Checkmate, determinists.

>> No.7116165

>>7116121
So when can I determine when I have full free will? Is the forest that surrounds my isolated cottage obstructing my free will? But nobody deliberately placed it there. By your logic, anything and everything prevents me from being free. So When is no one NOT stopping me?

This is the kind of bullshit armchair philosophy that gives it a bad rap.

>> No.7116166

>>7116121
what about when you want to make a choice in accordance to your spook but your biology doesn't permit it (ex. not being attracted to men because your faith disallows it)? is that free will?

>> No.7116172

>>7115795
>he doesn't understand emergent complexity

>> No.7116188

>>7114408
How does it feel to be non-white

>> No.7116196

>>7116165
How does a forest prevent you from being free?
I dont get it.
If you want to walk forward but someone suddenly hold you back your free will is being negated.
Free will is the descision you make based on all your past expereinces and life.
If the forest bothers you you can make a descision to cut it down.
Compatabilism simply states that free will is simply the descisions you make based on all the things in your past that effected you and all you know.
You cannot act on your free will when someone or something forcibly stops you.
You alwasy have free will - the process of making descisions based on the information and past experience you have, but you cant awlays act on yuor descisions because of coercion.

>> No.7116209

>>7114408
To convince a person they have no "free will" whatever that may be, is the same to sentence them to death.

>> No.7116211

>>7116196
>someone or something
so you mean my own biology can prevent me from being free? Say I have depression. I can't freely choose not to be depressed. Or what about the conditioning I've accumulated over the years? Do I get less free the older I get, because technically my "conscious free will" is being restricted by my "unconscious." This is why I say that technically everything is preventing me from being free

>> No.7116280

I cant believe in something if i dont know what it is

>> No.7116298

>>7116211

While the actions themselves are free, the desires that give rise to actions are not free. Those are determined by various factors.

The only true choice in this life is whether or not to accept one's intrinsic desires, or to deviate for the sake of them.

If free will exists, explain OCD.

>> No.7116311

>>7116280
You also cant pin point what freedom is but you believe it is important, dont you?

>> No.7116318

People who recounce free will are disgusting and have probably never faced adversity. Its a luxury of the pseudo-intellectual middle class toff. Try telling Warren Buffet there is no free will

>> No.7116340

>>7116318
Obviously people who acheived a lot will be predisposed to believe it was all their doing while people who have not will be predisposed to think it wasnt their fault.

That is besides the point. Warren Buffet is a buisnessman not a philosopher.
Maybe you should also only eat vanilla ice cream cause thats the flavor Einstein preffered?

>> No.7116381

What is the difference between an agent that has mental events cabaple of making free choices and an agent that doesn't have such mental events but have mental events nevertheless?

We can't even make this distinction, we shouldn't be claiming we're one or the other.

>> No.7117025

>>7114408
How's it feel to be over 14 and still believe that it matters whether or not free will exists?

>> No.7117365

>believing in destiny

this is some astrology teir shit. just because you call it "determinism" does not change the fact you are just trying to believe in a fairy tale.

>> No.7117637

>>7115508
>Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle
Why is this misused so much on 4chan? Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle simply states that it's impossible to know both the speed and exact location of an object at the same time due to the fact that measuring the speed and location of subatomic particles affects them in some uncontrollable way.

>> No.7117643

>>7116166
>want to make a choice in accordance to your spook but your biology doesn't permit it
You're fucking retarded, just because I can't turn into a watermelon on command doesn't mean I'm being denied all forms of freedom due to biological limitations.

>> No.7117665

>>7115508

4/10, excellent attempt, got 2 serious replies.

Amazingly, it wasn't the arbitrary capitalizations, the misuse of Heisenberg or the "unpossible". But Russel's demon... sheesh.

>> No.7117674

>>7116209
No. To be born is to be sentenced to death.

>> No.7119613

>>7114408
Not a cool thread anon

>> No.7119665

>>7114408

Pretty hard tbh.

I can only rely on my faith.

>> No.7119669

>>7119665

I have a theory though.

>> No.7119695
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7119695

>Believing in Edgy-le-science-Destiny

Hurr, it was destined to . . err I mean it was determined to be >:^)

i-i was determined to be a manlet it's not m-my fault i spend all my time on sluthate hating all the women who are determined to do things i've been determined to hate.

Why was my life determined to be a miserable pile of shit?


Grow up and take responsibility for your actions. Its fucking pathetic when ugly faggot "determinists" preach their bazinga astrology teir "world view"

>If we le only knew all the information about all the particles we would le predict everything, i-if we are ever determined to know all the information w-we will have to see if we are ever determined to know if determinism is true or not
>b-but in the meantime i'll be an edgy cunt about it anyways. i-i was determined to!


seriously fuck off.

>> No.7119715
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7119715

"Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills".

>> No.7119732

>>7114408
Free will doesn't matter. It's the biggest philosophical nonissue outside solipsism.

>> No.7120223

>>7119715
Seems arbitrary, if the very things that define you - you're will and beliefs - are provided entirely by the world, then certainly everything else about you including your circumstances and the way you behave is as well.

Just because acting on willings that arise from simple causality feels free doesn't mean there is ever any true choice.

>> No.7120841

>>7116318
Nah, winners believe in fate and losers in chance.

>> No.7120850

>muh buleaf!