/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7110484]

post your novel's thesis. can be as simple or as complicated as you want. then tell us how your premise aligns with this.

[Anonymous No.7110490]

>>7110484
Trying to reach the ineffable is fulfilling but ultimately pointless

My protagonist dies alone after failing at doing so, despite warnings

[Anonymous No.7110503]

>>7110490
Sounds absolutely retarded. Similarly, you seem retarded.

[Anonymous No.7110513]

Whats the e-reader comment doing in that pic? That guy collects physical books for sure.

[Anonymous No.7110519]

>>7110503
wew lad

[Anonymous No.7110523]

>>7110484
>novel has a thesis

[Anonymous No.7110547]

>>7110484
America is divided between the descendants of pioneers and the descendants of immigrants to established communities and the "immigrant" mindset is the future.

A bright and well-read but provincial young man is psychologically destroyed by an encounter with the coastal intelligentsia (this is a gross oversimplification)

[Anonymous No.7110559]

>>7110547
/pol/ trash right ?

[Anonymous No.7110575]

A power point presentation that slide by slide presents the entire universe

[Anonymous No.7110582]

>>7110559
It's not /pol/ at all unless you consider any interest in American history and politics to be /pol/. The middle American guy is outclassed and can't get his head around how out of touch he really is, so I don't see how that's /pol/. If anything it makes fun of most people on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.7110584]

Whats a novel thesis?

[Anonymous No.7110593]

Young guy, early twenties guy in a university town. Trying to write his thesis. Drugs, sex, alcoholism. Facebook nihilism. Self-harming, depression. That sort of thing

[Anonymous No.7110658]

No real thesis but the question is whether innocence (of not being corrupted by experience) involves the withdrawal of oneself from society and experience, or whether immersing oneself in experience and remaining true to certain principles or ideals can result in ones innocence remaining intact. The plot involves two unemployed brothers in a post-industrial town, one of whom is university educated and willingly detaches himself from society (despite claiming welfare benefits, which he treats as a form of almsgiving) because he feels the work offered to him and the sort of society he must involve himself with is undignified, and another brother who desperately wants work and works a series of low-paid jobs in his attempt to pursue those things many people pursue (a family, some financial wealth, a home, etc). They live together and to pay for the increased rent on their small damp flat they must find some way of earning money. One brother first announces his intention to grow crops in the living room and renounce society altogether, and then tries dressing in their dead mother's clothes to earn money webcamming online, and then writes erotica, something he finds he especially good at despite repulsing the women he meets and criticizing a culture he feels is over-eroticized. The other brother works a series of jobs at which he is treated poorly and underpaid, and eventually meets a girl, the sheltered daughter of a local business leader, who is herself looking to gain some independence despite her having been raised to fear the local working class population and the world they represent. Another "thesis" therefore is the value of a career and the obligation to work despite not wanting to contribute to the society your work is tacitly helping to maintain. Influences my novel are Bob Black's essay "The Abolition of Work", Bertrand Russell's essay "In Praise of Idleness", and the novelist Georges Bernanos and his conception of "Heroic Innocence". I'm struggling with the writing style at the moment and some of the finer details regarding one of the characters.

[Anonymous No.7110669]

>>7110582
ok nice I'm genuinely interested and impressed tbh

[Anonymous No.7110700]

>>7110669
Basically I love the pioneer attitude because I grew up with a family that embodied it in a positive way, but most people from that background aren't smart enough to do anything good with it and so just become card-carrying Republicans once there's nothing left to conquer that they're clever enough to find.

This was saddening to me until I went to college up in New England and found that while the men were too often effeminate and people in general soft in certain ways, the immigrant attitude was driving the most impressive parts of America and I needed to learn to roll with it.

[Anonymous No.7110706]

>>7110658
nice

[Anonymous No.7110713]

>>7110700
Will you share an excerpt with me if I give you my email ?

[Anonymous No.7110716]

>>7110658
actually cool

[Anonymous No.7110742]

>>7110658
Sounds really good. Have you read a lot of Bernanos?

[Anonymous No.7110743]

>>7110706
>>7110716
Thanks. I'm struggling to find the time to write it in a consistent way. Really struggling to work my office job and write. Feel like I'm not working at my best most of the time since I'm so tired.

[Anonymous No.7110749]

>>7110713
I would love to but I just value my anonymity here too much. It's nothing personal but I want to publish it and I would rather that be the first anyone outside of my close circle of friends sees it. If it's actually successful I'll find a way to make sure /lit/ knows one of their own made it.

[Anonymous No.7110752]

>>7110742
I've read Mouchette, Diary of a Country Priest and some secondary reading about him / his work. Do you like his work?

[Anonymous No.7110754]

>>7110749
oh okay :(

[Anonymous No.7110767]

The existence of a global civilization, and the technology required for it, along with the progressivist mindset derived from it, all have put man in a position where he must choose between infinity and completion. All our modern cultural and personal conflict can be traced down to this choice. The question then, is whether a being that doesn't recognize otherness anymore is a superior or a pervese existence.

I'm not going to tell you the premise though, because paranoia, but pic is kinda related.

[Anonymous No.7110778]

>>7110658
Sounds uninteresting tbh fam

[Anonymous No.7110781]

>>7110593
>Facebook nihilism.
What's that?

[Anonymous No.7110792]

>>7110752
His essays are good (especially his most well-known: A Diary of My Times) and I find his novels to be truly masterpieces. Country of a diary priest is my favorite, but you should check out Under the Sun of Satan, which is also excellent.
Bresson's films are also really good (if you're interested, be sure to read Notes on Cinematography first).
It's always a pleasure to see that people still read him...

[Anonymous No.7110809]

>>7110781
his lazy revision of DFW's phrase "Neiman-Marcus Nihilism"

[Anonymous No.7110821]

>>7110792
I've not Diary of My Times but I'll check it out. And yes the Bresson films are great, the Catholic sentiment in his novels obviously appealed to Bresson's own religious beliefs. Bresson's "Diary of a Country Priest" influenced Paul Schrader in his characterization of Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver, and the scene in which Travis eats bread and whiskey while complaining of having cancer is a reference to the movie / book.

[Anonymous No.7110854]

>>7110821
How did I not see that before? Thanks. Be sure to make a thread here if your novel gets published! I'd love to read it.

[Anonymous No.7110864]

>>7110854
That'll be many years down the line the way things are going, but thanks I appreciate it. And thanks for the Bernanos recs.

[Anonymous No.7110892]

Life can be tough when you're an intelligent, nihilistic teenager with a wicked sense of humor

It's a dystopian novel where apathy is a crime punishable by death.

[Anonymous No.7110898]

>>7110523
Does OP mean premise? That would make more sense. Ik essays have a thesis, but why would a novel have one?

[Anonymous No.7110916]

>>7110898
A thesis is what you are trying to prove. It's almost like a theme, but not quite. A thesis for Moby Dick would be "Nature always overcomes man, despite his best efforts."

A premise would just be the plot of the book. Some novels don't even have a thesis; these are your Harry Potters, your Twilights.

[Anonymous No.7110921]

>>7110892
Sounds promising. What's the plot?

[Anonymous No.7110964]

Omnipotent 14 year old newscaster spends days with perverted mongoloid sewer dweller named Murph. Later in the book the protagonist has a spiritual awakening.

[Anonymous No.7111037]

Divorced Father who hates his children and uses consumerism as a drug, goes on a vacation to a dead tourist trap of a town on a drab island with aforementioned children. The novel goes between this and thirty years later when the resort town has taken on a cultish and tribal nature and is obsessed with a religion based on an erotic fixation with the trees that grow there. It's probably shit.

[Anonymous No.7111048]

>>7110582

Where do the Injuns fit in to all of this?

[Anonymous No.7111803]

no thesis, but the structure of the overall series reexamines the popular "heroes journey" by joseph campbell as it applies to fantasy and science fiction and shows how the injection and indoctrination of the tools of the digital age allow for previously unexplored possibilities in story telling

[Anonymous No.7111813]

>>7111048
Funny you should ask. They're basically all dead or mixed with the whites, so they fit in as someone's ancestors.

[Anonymous No.7111825]

>>7111803
Oh shit, it's you again.

[Anonymous No.7111834]

>>7111803
nigger you never posts excerpts fak u tbh

[Anonymous No.7111849]

>>7111803

This guy has a point.
>>7111834
For all we know, you've just got boxes full of bullshit.

[Anonymous No.7111850]

>>7110916
Oh. I had to get to the bottom of the thread to understand.

In that case - everything dies eventually, even gods.

[Anonymous No.7111875]

>>7111849
ok. pick a number between 1-11 (book)and then a page number. <500

[Anonymous No.7111879]

>>7111875
9, 358

[Anonymous No.7111883]

>>7111879
less than 500

[Anonymous No.7111894]

>>7111883
breh
book 9, page 358

[Anonymous No.7111900]

>>7111883
nigger since when is 358 not less than 500

[Anonymous No.7111926]

>>7111879
Book has less than 358. Here's last page. First rough draft. Has been edited twice since this was printed. Changed the epilogue

[Anonymous No.7111953]

>>7111926
kek that penultimate sentence

[Anonymous No.7111961]

>>7111926
"Cicero paused a moment to REALLY take in the GRAVITY of the words he was ABOUT to say"

Just have him fucking say it man. It's the last goddamn sentence.

[Anonymous No.7111963]

>>7110484
My book is about a cloudcutter named Raziel who is young and idealistic, travelling the world on his aircraft until he meets the old and jaded Neilus and joins him on his last periple.

I try to deal with themes such as loss of motivation, purpose, disbelief and idealism, while making it somewhat of a discovery and initiatic fable.

[Anonymous No.7111965]

If everyone wants to be able to live their life as they dream one must be able to control their environment. In the ultra-interconnected society that we live in now one must wield power over others to influence their environment as they please. In modern times gaining status is directly related to gaining power.

Every time one is prompted to act they must make a choice: act or not. By this logic every action is found desirable by the actor even if they don't realize it. They want to do it.

Bringing the two concepts together: If everyone subconsciously desires to control one's own destiny and every action is one's self interests realized then every action seeks to gain power, in other words status.

[Anonymous No.7111987]

>>7111965
What is this retarded copypasta? Are you spamming this because you think it's insightful? It's the opposite of insightful. This is pretty much the recipe for unhappiness and small mindedness.

[Anonymous No.7111995]

>>7110547
I like this premise a lot.

Can you go into a little detail about this:

>A bright and well-read but provincial young man is psychologically destroyed by an encounter with the coastal intelligentsia

I can't tell what side the protagonist emanates, or what you mean by a coastal intelligentsia.

[Anonymous No.7111997]

>>7111987
>It's the opposite of insightful. This is pretty much the recipe for unhappiness and small mindedness.
How so?

[Anonymous No.7112010]

My novel is supposed to have a thesis?

[Anonymous No.7112021]

>>7112010
ikr

i'm just stringing together a bunch of short stories i wrote. let the readers decide if i stumbled onto any Big Ideas

[Anonymous No.7112026]

>>7111997
>If everyone wants to be able to live life as they dream
It's possible to dream something different.
>everyone must be able to control... one must wield power over others.
This is a huge assertion. Most useful schools of thought that actually make people happy being with controlling oneself, after which control over others seems petty.

>every action seeks to gain power
That's true of most people, and recognizing it is important, but nothing here helps you live better than those people.

>>7111995
The protagonist is middle America, pioneers gone to seed.

Coastal intelligentsia refers to smart, hardworking and successful people who are most concentrated on the East and West coasts of America, at least in their own minds.

[Anonymous No.7112044]

>>7112026
>It's possible to dream something different.
The only other thing to dream of in this case is something they don't want, which doesn't make sense.
>This is a huge assertion. Most useful schools of thought that actually make people happy being with controlling oneself, after which control over others seems petty.
Without actively trying to influence your surroundings you can never get what you want.
>but nothing here helps you live better than those people
As you said recognizing it is important. Knowing it allows one to operate with greater insight of the human psyche.

[Anonymous No.7112048]

It's better to be unhappy and know the truth, than to live in ignorant happiness.

[Anonymous No.7112051]

>>7112044
You need to read The Enchiridion and Stirner stat. People want things that make them miserable all the time, and the things that actually make them happy are usually quite humble and internal.

[Anonymous No.7112069]

>>7112051
Thank you anon I will add it to my list

[Anonymous No.7112372]

>>7110658
>>7110892
would read/10

It's a meditation on hatred, commentary on collectivism/oligarchy, and an extended exaggeration (sincere satire? post irony?) of the collegiate zeitgeist. I could break it down into some questions.
>what does boredom justify?
the narrator challenges his dysphoria with increasingly erratic behavior
>why do the powerful stay powerful?
the main character is among an elite inner circle
>does life have a market value?
the narrator is the middle man between the IC and a drug magnate
>must the many depend on the few?
the inner circle is effectively a black market government
>what are the limitations to free expression?
the school exercises extreme social experimentation
>what is the price of freedom?
this inner circle organizes a series of student groups that minimize outside influence

I'm going for a minimalist/implicit plot that mostly focuses on the narrator (a bohemian and shamanistic psychonaut writing a faux-memoir as he lives out his last days) but relies on extreme world building on par with high fantasy. The University of Arcadia is a public school in an alternate United States that is part of a large social effort among public schools to enact progressive stigma during a time of political uncertainty and socioeconomic reform. UArc has established a "hands off" approach to student life and emphasized free expression which promotes a cultural renaissance among its enrolled, the emphasis being self reliance. Police stand watch in bullet proof glass chambers at night, only interfering in cases of violence or riot; the Nudists and Androgynous (student groups) fight social norms; the "Homeless" (based on the Roman Cynics) beg and rant day and night; one of the dorms is turned into a Detention Center which operates as a legitimate prison; the walls of every hall and all buildings are covered in art of all kinds, run by an elitist group of artists who battle a lone vigilante defacing their masterpieces; Dorms are outfitted with unisex bathrooms and sex chambers (a la carte). The narrator is a member of the reclusive inner circle that maintains an oligarchy through its control of the school's extensive black market, monopolizing gambling, strip/sex clubs, drug rings and a "stock market" of partying (including an invite only social network that catalogs parties and events); they maintain relationships with the school's Greek Life, largely independent by their own right, and the Student Government, who manages everything else.

[Anonymous No.7112419]

It's a low-fantasy novel and sort of a throwback to the older works of Tolkein and George MacDonald. On the surface it's a coming-of-age adventure story but with an increasingly negative view of human nature. I'm trying to keep it from being edgy though. It's also got some Western influences.

[Anonymous No.7112427]

>>7112372
I think I could condense this down to "self awareness and convenience are as satisfying as they are ultimately corrosive"

[Anonymous No.7112483]

Set in 12th Century Occitania, a young priest is tasked with delivering a tattered bible to his mentor’s dying lover. He encounters, and eventually travels, with an eccentric troubadour who’s only wish in life is to talk with god. As for a thesis, I'm not far enough along to focus on the overarching.

[Anonymous No.7112487]

That no one is doomed to failure; at a point you roll your own dice.

this is actually a three act play

A failed poet, following two disastrous engagements (one with a childhood love that he truly believed was his soul mate), moves back to his hometown to live with an old friend and teach in the Social Studies department as a World History instructor at his high school (the only available full time position that he qualifies for). He stops taking his life seriously, drinking heavily, doing all manner of drugs (which he buys from students) and is pushed to an extreme when he decides to live at the school when he's kicked out over Christmas break. He engages in an affair with an attractive guidance counselor (cheating on her husband) who forces him to stay in line with her with threats of termination, gradually falls in love with the Honors Chemistry teacher, and begins a sexual relationship with a 16 year old student whom he becomes emotionally attached to. The ongoing plot involves his efforts to inspire his spiteful and disinterested students, despite his inability to inspire himself, and his balance of these three relationships.

[Anonymous No.7112530]

>>7110658
>>7112372
>>7112487

y'all niggas have put in some thought damn

[Anonymous No.7112584]

>>7110484
A mediator has to help a mountain goddess through her existential crisis or she'll fuck everyone up.

[Anonymous No.7112622]

>>7112584
sounds anime tbh

[Anonymous No.7112664]

>>7111926

wheres the rest of it?

[Anonymous No.7112859]

>>7110752
>>7110792
Really love those bresson films. Not the best reader tbh, but do you think I'd enjoy the novels if I come from more of a film background? Do you think I'd get more out of the films after reading the novels? What would you say is bernanos' best work?

[Anonymous No.7112891]

>>7112584
I remember you posting about this in other threads, hows it going?

[Anonymous No.7112896]

A young religious scholar finds that the higher purpose and fulfillment in her faith comes at the cost of the total disintegration of everything she knows to be true about her existence in this reality and a fiery baptism to be purified for this new life

Extremely intense spiritual and religious themes born from my own experiences with radical religious beliefs and communities

[Anonymous No.7112975]

My novel is some bullshit about the 1920-1980 as told from the point of view of someone who cannot age because of some bullshit magic realism and there's a bunch of bullshit historical characters like it's fucking Ragtime and it's got even more bullshit about the human need for love and how isolation is not the same as solitude and will eventually deplete the world and how nobody can truly be free from loneliness until they admit their inner pain and a bunch of other bullshit and Ambrose Bierce appears when he's fucking 120 and tells the main character not to do any bullshit that he does anyway and it ends with him vanishing in a snowstorm in Japan.

[Anonymous No.7113013]

i have this narrative inspired by thomas pynchon's "crying of lot 49." the main character is a recovering heroin addict that feels the need to redeem himself to his family and friends. The one scene i'm proud of is him, his mother, and his newborn infant that he named "wheatus." He's strung out on heroin, and draws the connection between his fondness for watching a syringe fill with his blood, and the new found feeling of warmth for his child. blah blah blah

[Anonymous No.7113016]

A guy steals paintings in order to have sex with them to avenge the death of his girlfriend.

[Anonymous No.7113021]

>>7110916
>A thesis for Moby Dick would be "Nature always overcomes man, despite his best efforts."

[Anonymous No.7113124]

>>7112891
Good. I plan on posting in the critique thread soon.

>>7112622
I'll market it to the Japanese as a Light Novel ;-')

[Anonymous No.7113235]

>>7112859
I'd start with Mouchette if you fear your attention span will get the better of you, though Diary of a Country Priest is more interesting IMO.

[Anonymous No.7113264]

>>7110658
was with you til the crossdressing ed geins shit

[Anonymous No.7113298]

>>7110484
The world isn't actually ~13.8 billion years old. It is closer to 82 quintillion (whatever big number) years old. God resets the universe and tries again from the beginning whenever humanity, his first and favorite creation, begin to forget about him.

The heavenly bureaucracy neither needs nor particularly wants God at this point, but are content to let him futz around with the Milky Way while they study all the other sentient life forms and societies in the universe. The only reason God hasn't been deposed is because of his omniscience. They all still believe he is doing what is absolutely best for everyone.

Little do they know, God rid himself of his omniscience after the first cycle of humanity forgetting him. He knew it would happen eventually, but had no idea how much his favorite sons' turning their back on him would hurt. So, he tries again and again, with subtle tweaks each time, to make a version of humanity that believes in him eternally of their own free will.

tl;dr a sad and insecure God keeps remaking the universe till he creates a version of humanity that loves him forever.

[Anonymous No.7113304]

>>7110484
>implying my novel has a thesis and isn't just an excuse to write a fantasy novel about gangsters

[Anonymous No.7113381]

dont fuck with things you dont understand. also if you do, make sure to have friends and a weird guy who lives innawoods to help you not die (and find out more about weird things)

[Anonymous No.7114026]

>>7113298
There's a point where things inevitably get ridiculous if you take God literally to mean omnipotent-omniscient deity-entity as opposed to God-as-universal-consciousness or God-as-Divine-Mystery. It's just more than a little weird to entertain the notion of God having "adventures" or suffering drama like a regular protagonist would.

[Anonymous No.7114049]

>>7113381
So kooky! Would read. 10/10!

[Anonymous No.7114226]

>>7110582
>Middle American guy outclassed
Right because the coasts are the home of über powerful philosopher-wizards and our tiny Midwestern brains couldn't possible understand their dark musings. Fuck yourself anon and travel before you try and write

[Anonymous No.7114236]

>>7114226
Lol fuck off moron he does what he wants in his book, write your own

[Anonymous No.7114239]

>>7114236
Yes he can write whatever trite, stereotyped drivel he wants too. He just shouldn't.

[Anonymous No.7114244]

>>7114239
According to who, you ? Your opinion is meaningless

[Anonymous No.7114246]

>>7110484
Its a multiple POV take on the class system in the small southern English town that I grew up/live in. Its more of an exercise really, but I'm about 20,000 words in and really do like it. Think Trainspotting if it was written by Martin Amis.

[Anonymous No.7114251]

>>7114244
You don't know what a stereotype is do you? It's ok get a dictionary we'll wait.

[Anonymous No.7114257]

>>7114251
There is literally no problem with manipulating stereotypes.

[Anonymous No.7114273]

>>7114257
Except he's not manipulating it so much as reinforcing it.

[Anonymous No.7114293]

>>7114273
I, again, fail to see how that's a bad thing

[Anonymous No.7114307]

Thesis: We’re always hungry for the hunger for truth; we never accept actual truths we encounter in life because we want to keep looking.

Premise: implying I'll write your novel

[Anonymous No.7114676]

>>7114026
>It's just more than a little weird to entertain the notion of God having "adventures" or suffering drama like a regular protagonist would.

That's what I'm hoping for. My religious upbringing was also more than a little weird, where I was very much led to believe that God absolutely was an entity that looked like a person, even though it never really made sense to me that someone who was supposedly everywhere and once and knew everything always would just have a physical form somewhere. I had bad teachers in Christian school, the shut up and listen kid.

I also just like the idea of of a host of angels rationalizing all God's weird behavior as a divine plan.

[Anonymous No.7115062]

>>7114293
Because literature should definitely shrink your horizons and reinforce your thought processes rather than expanding them.

[Anonymous No.7115079]

The literary equivalent of Aphex Twin

[Anonymous No.7115181]

>>7110484
Thankfully I found a "thesis" for my book before writing it or it would be more or less genre fiction.

We all give purpose to each other and that we need some evil in the world so we have a chance to be heroes. Those who choose to be evil for the sake of bringing good can be almost as noble, so to speak, as those who chose to be good. Facing evil can bring out great things from humans, things they could never achieve in a peaceful life.

[Anonymous No.7115184]

Given America's ethnic, social, and economic divisions, feudal Balkanization is inevitable in an apocalyptic scenario.

[Anonymous No.7115194]

How does a thesis differ from a theme?

[Anonymous No.7115262]

>>7115062
Literally shouldn't do anything. It only does what the author wants.

Supporting stereotypes can be repugnant, but stereotype analysis and deconstruction can be interesting.

[Anonymous No.7115291]

>>7110658
Read Narcissus and Goldmund, that's what this sounds like.

[Anonymous No.7115297]

Is it a cliche now to base the story of a novel around a serial killer that targets women (specifically prostitutes and other whorish types) with some religious reasoning behind it?

[Anonymous No.7115338]

humanity's innate selfishness and violence actually saves humanity from its own destruction by killing the newly evolved humans who are pacific and want to kill the old humans to build a world free from wars and violence
the world is condemned to be a violent place because humans have the will to live

[Anonymous No.7115412]

>>7113298
Good luck anon.
Careful not to let the story become science fiction.
>>7114026
>It's just more than a little weird to entertain the notion of God having "adventures" or suffering drama like a regular protagonist would
I know another writer who did this and it worked out ok
His name starts with an H ;^)

>>7112487
I like it. If you haven't already you should check out Rabbit, Run.

>>7112372
I love these ideas so much, man. I really do.
What are your initials so someday I can spot it on a shelf?

>>7111037
>Divorced Father who hates his children and uses consumerism as a drug
This is a great, great idea, but to be totally honest, I don't like what comes after it.

>>7110484
This is for a short story
(I think 24,000 words is still a short story)

When what we find true (concerning life) is put to its ultimate appraisal (living) what is shown is that we knew was true was not.
Only through the trials of life comes the understanding that temporary excitement feels like enduring fulfillment.

A prideful musician can't will himself to leave the hotel he plays in.

[Anonymous No.7115538]

>>7110484
A small-time criminal with mental health problems tries to better his life when he starts having visions of god telling him the end of the world is near.

[Anonymous No.7115559]

>>7110484
Being a macho cunt makes other macho cunts angry.

[Anonymous No.7115701]

bump

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7115719]

Dear reader, peaceful and bucolic,
Ingenuous, sober, hierophantic,
Lay by this book so corybantic,
So Saturnine, and melancholic.

If elsewhere than in Satan's school
You learned your syntax and your grammar,
Lay by! You'll think I rave and stammer
And am a stark, hysteric fool.

But if, not yielding to their charm,
Your eye can plumb the gulfs of harm —
Then learn to love me, read my verses.

Inquiring sufferer, who seek
Your Paradise, to you I speak:
Pity me!... else, receive my curses!

[Anonymous No.7115807]

>>7115719
I've been reading Fleurs de Mal, it's intoxicating. Have any other favorites? "A Former Life", "The Mask", and "Lethe" have been a few of the ones that most thrilled me so far.

[Anonymous No.7115893]

>>7110484
Thesis: Is history a function of the actions of great men?

Premise: The lover of a secessionist leader tries to stop a man sent to assassinate him.

Premise ties in: The secessionist leader never appears until the end. All we see of him are how people see him, and how his actions have changed the world.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7115897]

>>7115807
I don't have the book beside me,
so the titles escape me,
although I remember quite a few resonating with me.

[Anonymous No.7116805]

>>7115559
>>7115538
>>7115412
>>7115338
>>7115297
>>7115181
bump can we get some feedback

[Anonymous No.7116877]

The purpose and pleasure of life is to learn new things, about one's self, about others, about everything.

[Anonymous No.7116964]

>>7115412
my pen name is U.R.K.

[Anonymous No.7116988]

>>7116964
Cool.
Hope to see it soon.

[Anonymous No.7116998]

>>7115893
this could be fun as long as it's not too heavy in satire or bland dystopia

[Anonymous No.7117007]

thesis: the central problematic of race myths in suburban and middle corporate culture

antithesis: the dissolution of social structures of meaning in light of a seeming rapid influx of private ,hails, in popular culture coupled with the distant antagonism of state and ideological riffing

synthesis: a story about a black kid and a story about a white man, an occult broadcasting network, mass-scale soap opera production and vaudeville folklore horror

[Anonymous No.7117009]

>>7115297
That is the archetype but true detective out a fun spin on it. I used to think ideas were the most important part of writing but execution is like 95% of what makes something great.

I mean Ulysses is about a guy trying to deal with his wife cheating on him.

[Anonymous No.7117022]

>>7115538
I'm writing this as a short story tonight, as soon as I read it I wanted to write it. thanks for the idea, best of luck.

[Anonymous No.7117086]

>>7115538
>>7117022
Already have the intro!

>Were it not for one spastic fit of rage which had caused Stephen Crow, at eleven years of age, to draw a knife on another student and threaten to kill him, our witless protagonist might have grown into an honorable man. This, of course, was not God's plan as Stephen would justify twenty years later, preaching apocalypse on withered streets to apathetic denizens who shrugged off his warnings as lunacy. Stephen, ironically, was quite accustomed to ignoring voices, having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder in high school, something he managed to endure, with limited success in all areas of existence. Our story, his story, naturally begins on a Sunday, at midnight. It was raining, and he, having last bathed a week earlier, was off to church.

my thesis is that idiots are unable to be civil for themselves and must appease something greater

[Anonymous No.7118203]

>>7116998
It's actually a hard science-fiction novel set on Mars in the late 21st/early-mid 22nd century.

[Anonymous No.7118205]

>>7117007

[Anonymous No.7118254]

>>7110781
social alienation, unable to communicate sincerely, the angst that comes from that and some memes

[Anonymous No.7118589]

>>7110484
>work of art
>interpretive thesis
>SUSAN SONTAG INTENSIFIES

[Anonymous No.7119103]

>>7118205

exactly

part of the idea is to examine why people like you attach such strong emotional narratives to interracial sexuality, especially when applied to black men and white women

there's a host of ancient western fears and insecurities about this kind of thing, it's ripe for satire as well as legitimate study

[Anonymous No.7119578]

My thesis is that the biopolitics of the early Bolsheviks was right and that the ideas of their time will never go away no matter what happens.

My premise is a Soviet lab experiment to create a perfectly rational person leaves a single survivor who wanders the earth after the fall of the USSR, confusing people and espousing offensive ideas.

[Anonymous No.7119660]

>>7110484
Just wanted to make a quick post saying well played to most of the posters in this thread. im just finishing my second novel. im really hoping i catch a break soon. it's nice to see so many others in my position. this is a lovely board.

interesting to see all this talk on a novel's thesis and premise. ive never thought about that. i dont think i will going ahead either. it works out better that way i often find.

i guess my novels thesis would be that kindness finds a way to fulfill itself, and that cruelty ultimately degrades. its about a beautiful young girl who enters a dangerous relationship with an older woman (non sexual), and the resulting fallout. ultimately the woman's cruelty comes back to haunt her. in terms of style i guess i follow anne tyler and joyce carol oates meandering but nail on the head slice of life prose, along with the descriptive nuances of someone like john mcgahern.

[Anonymous No.7119868]

>>7118254
you had me at memes

[Anonymous No.7120126]

>>7119578
Stop stealing my biography you vulture!

I'll hang you from a telephone mast like an eight year old Kulak!

[Anonymous No.7120150]

>>7110484
Main character gets diagnosed with terminal cancers. He decides to repair the relationships he has. Ends with him surviving but no one really caring, most wanted him to die due to his actions over the book.

[Anonymous No.7121401]

>>7113298
Honest to God anon, this concept is really, really good. Keep at it, friend.

[Anonymous No.7121410]

>>7110484
handful of men and women are living in a satellite above jupiter, preparing for the first manned exploration of the planet. the first half explores the social/sexual dynamics of living in a confined space for such a long time.

the second half deals with the actual mission, but it's going to be hard to avoid tropes and be scientifically accurate. any ideas are welcomed.

[Anonymous No.7121411]

why does my writing sound good at first and in the weeks/months that follow turn to stiff shit? why is my mind tricking me into thinking i have talent

[Anonymous No.7121447]

>>7110484
"I can't believe how fat and gay I am"

[Anonymous No.7121518]

An already extremely wealthy tech company invents a form of virtual reality that requires medically supervised sedation. For legal and other reasons, their best bet is to build a virtual reality resort city in Death Valley, California. Their main technological competitor is Palantir, a cruder form of augmented/virtual reality which is basically Oculus Rift with a stereoptic camera stuck on the outside and an OS that allows the user to seamlessly shift between VR, AR, and unadulterated IRL experience. It is often combined by users with a 'thought-to-text" module that, once trained, can be used to control the OS mentally (this technology already exists, by the way, it's just in the early shitty stages).

Two characters are followed: one (Ryan) is a gamer type living in Death Valley who takes to wearing Palantir all day long and who develops a quasi-sexual headmate relationship with his imagined version of an internet famous teenager. He eventually builds a 3DCG model of her and hooks it up to basic AI and language systems to have the equivalent of Cortana from Halo constantly active in his Palantir. Prone to fantasy, he imagines lurking around Death Valley armed and armored, solving crimes with the aid of his Cortana.

The second character (Sarah) works for a security analytics company that buys and sells access to users' thought-to-text and Palantir recordings/"feeds", as well as "operating" these users for clients, which often involves manipulating them into taking certain actions by interacting with them through the internet under a variety of guises (maybe, for example, the operator has access to the feeds of a brother and sister and so can use the sister's facebook account to convince the brother that his parents have died).

In this case, the client is Orange, the user is Ryan, and the Sarah operates Ryan by subverting his 3DCG headmate's AI module and inserting her own speech. Sarah convinces Ryan to go postal, Ryan goes to court and says his virtual girlfriend made him do it, America is like "damn look at what vidya made him do", and Orange's stock price goes up while Palantir's plummets, The End

There isn't a thesis because it's not an essay

[Anonymous No.7122711]

Novels don't have a thesis. They might have themes. But if you want to prove something don't do it in a story. This would be the work of the reader at best.

[Anonymous No.7123063]

>>7110484
People don't like things even though they know they should because reasons.

[Anonymous No.7123849]

>>7110484
Girl encourages woman to paint in order to appease 25 y/o possesed lake because a paranoid frenchmen told her to on a napkin, also she sees an owl with a face

[Anonymous No.7123875]

Forms do not exist - they are artifacts of the way one perceives the world.

[Anonymous No.7123877]

>>7110658
I dunno if its coz you clearly outlined the thesis at the beginning or just coz its shit but it sounds like a really blatant allegorical/philosophical novel. Like one of those books about equality for kids but for people at a higher reading level

[Anonymous No.7124241]

>>7110484
Self reliance is an ideal one should strive towards, however humanity is a social animal that requires company to stay truly human.

[Anonymous No.7124340]

>>7110490
r u fucking camus

[Anonymous No.7124348]

>>7110767
>infinity and completion

holy shit you must have tried really hard to pick the most ambiguous words there

[Anonymous No.7124352]

>>7123875

Gibberish

[Anonymous No.7124360]

>>7111965
holy shit go read hobbes and le nietzsche before writing anything about power over others or the pursuit of power.

[Anonymous No.7124362]

>>7124348

Sad to see when people try to present big ideas with inadequate words, rendering others unable to understand them.

[Anonymous No.7124372]

>>7122711
say that to philosophers who write novels you 2 year old child

[Anonymous No.7124382]

>>7124362
If you're implying by "completion" that this hypothetical future world is "perfect", and therefore "complete", you could have just said "finishing completing his world."

If you mean "infinity" as "continuing to build the world forever even if its perfect," then you could just saying fucking that and we wouldn't have this conversation

[Anonymous No.7124505]

We aren't ourselves. Did you choose to be a white, middle class American male, alive in the year 2015? No, but that's who you are. Even the parts of us we appear to choose- work ethic, disposition, opinions, actions- are only ever what's allowed to us by our circumstances. How busy a person am I gonna be if I have spina bifida? How good a lover am I gonna be if my face looks like a pizza?

And yet, this body we've been given is the first thing we use to judge one another. It's the most readily accessible piece of information you can get on someone.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I don't really have a point to make. It just informs the narrative, I guess.