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/lit/ - Literature

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7103637 No.7103637 [Reply] [Original]

We see a lot of Stirner fanboys and I have a question for you: What do you think about "The German Ideology"?
I expect a violent debate here, don't disappoint me /lit/!

>> No.7103653
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7103653

ayyy lmao

>> No.7103657
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7103657

TGI is pure witty shit tbh

>> No.7103671

BUMP for the fun!

>> No.7103886

why no posts here? :(

>> No.7103912

>>7103637
I think it's a spook.

>> No.7103920

lol post more

>> No.7103938

>>7103886
Because Stirnerians can't handle the bantz

>> No.7104005
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7104005

s-spooked

>> No.7104071

>>7103938
s-so Marx wins?

>> No.7104084

>>7103637
tl;dr ad hominem that marx didn't dare to publish because he knew it was shit

since then philosophers just gave stirner the silent treatment since he's hard to dismiss and too dangerous to any ideological system they attempt to construct.

>> No.7104089

>>7104071
Yes.

>> No.7104267

>>7103637
it is a nice idea on the ways in which we humans have been living. it incorporates the spookies but doesn't call them that. i liked it. it replaces the spooks with spooks though. which is looked down upon by stirner.

>> No.7105593

how sad this is, why nobody posts here, where are the Stirner fans?

>> No.7105659

>>7105593
Not in silly Marxism threads, evidently.

>> No.7105670

>>7104084
this tbh

>> No.7105680 [DELETED] 

>>7105659
>No real job
>Brought up in wealthy middle class
>No military service
>PhD in Philosophy
>Thesis about Philosophy vs. Theology (muh atheism)
>Go into journalism
>Write salty chronicles about capitalism

When did you guys realize that Marx was basically the Laurie Penny of the 18th century? A fucking fraud.

>> No.7105738

>>7103637
>/lit/
>not disappointing

>> No.7105753

>>7105680
dumb fuck

>> No.7105769 [DELETED] 

>>7105753
>average marxist when confronted with facts

>> No.7106297

>>7103637
He does kind of wreck Stirner but I think you could rewrite post Marx Stirner without too much difficulty

>that line when Marx says Stirner should know the unconscious: he finds himself unconscious under the table after drinking often

>> No.7106304

>>7104084
It raises some good points about his philosophy actually

The biggest problem with Stirner is he believes the unconscious is truly creative, that dialectics can't examine it. Which Nietzsche shows is bollox

That's why Nietzsche is objectively superior to Stirner

>> No.7106312 [DELETED] 

>>7105769
I find that the marxist reacts in the same way as the religious fundamentalist : he gets incredibly offended and waves his "holy book" (be it the manifesto or das kapital) as proof that you are wrong and that he is right.

>> No.7106329

>>7106297
if you ever read Max's biography, you would find out that Max was very self-disciplined.

Funny how prudent he was for a man that argued in favor of pleasure.

>> No.7106341

>>7106297
>>that line when Marx says Stirner should know the unconscious: he finds himself unconscious under the table after drinking often
oh so someone has actually read it, great

>> No.7106369

>>7106329
The one Mackay did fifty years after his death?

>>7106341
I've read much of it, but it's too long to sit through. Marx loves history so he spends a shitload of time tearing apart Stirner's historicity and laughs at him for ripping off Hegel. Which I think is often besides the point.

But when he talks about Stirner's concepts of growing up it gets juicy. Sometimes I think Marx misses the point but sometimes he raises good points

>> No.7106372

>>7106369
yes

I doubt Karl had any real knowledge of who Max was; he had never had direct contact with him, given that Max wasn't a young hegelian.

>> No.7106389

>>7106372
Didn't Engels though?

>> No.7106399

>>7106389
I don't know, but Engels had a great deal of admiration towards Stirner.

>> No.7106411

>>7106399
I'm pretty sure Engels actually drew those images of Stirner

In any case, seeing Stirner makes it very clear why Marx made the shift to dialectical materialism. Basically Marx wants what Stirner is offering, but says, look dude, you can't just imagine your way into owning things. If you view ownership in a materialistic way, you can get around Stirner.

That's why Marx laughed at morality. He was just a Stirnerite that did dialectics on material

>> No.7106422

Did Marx really actually BTFO Stirner in his book?

>> No.7106426
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7106426

>>7106399
>>7106411

Max's writing actually influenced Marx and Engels, before reading The Ego, Marx was an idealist. Engels really did appreciate Stirner, even if he didn't always agree with him, and yeah he drew every first hand likeness of Stirner we have today.

>>7106304
>pic related

>> No.7106430

>>7106422
Yes and no.

He doesn't really refute Stirner he mostly brings up a lot of confounding details that Stirner doesn't talk about, so there's no counterargument. I can come up with some defense for Stirner though.

>> No.7106443

>>7106369
On top of that, I'd say that Marx really did effectively critique Stirner's construction of the 'holy' vs 'einzige'.

The stuff Marx says about communism, abolition of private property etc. is the most interesting for me however.

>> No.7106448

I feel Striner got the last laugh. His main thrust of his argument focused on the relationship between men and ideas which he looked to abolish. Marx didn't deal with that. He just claimed that everything he did was non ideological or "scientific" and chided Striner for thinking the state can be wished away when he already recognized that it can't. Marxists reproduced the same ideological subordination Striner criticized almost every communist leader acting identical to the Sultan in Striner's work.

>>7106304
I like Striner more because there is less fawning over the Greeks or this or that value and Stirner cannot be so easily co-opted into other ideologies as he spends too much time attacking the values Nietzsche praises and lacks fantastical concepts like the overman.

>> No.7106468

>>7106448
Nietzsche hardly praised any values.

Like Stirner says if you want stuff, get powerful. That power is Nietzsche's only value.

>>7106443
I must have missed that part,

>> No.7106476

>>7103637
did stirner replace rand on /lit/?

>> No.7106480

>>7106476
He replaced Diogenes.

It's about time we got ourselves a new meme philosopher tbh.

>> No.7106488

>>7106468
>Nietzsche hardly praised any values.
He spends a good amount of time gushing over the Greeks and their values and criticizing the decadence of the modern age. That is why the Nazis could co-op him but not someone like Striner.

>> No.7106503

>>7106468
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch03f.htm#p247
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch03d.htm#c.1.6.2

unfortunately much of the manuscript is missing on these occasions

>> No.7106528

>>7106488
Nietzsche talks about the degeneration of the Greeks alot

>> No.7106645

>>7106480
Stirner is already kind of stale tbh

>> No.7106700

>>7106645
after four years? no way