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/lit/ - Literature

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7096505 No.7096505 [Reply] [Original]

Why is academia in the West so left-wing? Is there a reason for it or is it just because left-wing ideologies are a fad?

>> No.7096509

Intellectuals like to feel morally superior to the common people, and it's easiest to feel that way being left-wing politically, even in cases where you're wrong

>> No.7096513

>>7096505
they are anti-lucre
and the right wing in your pathetic, though well-armed country loves banks, millionaires, etc

>> No.7096515

>>7096505
Wops like Paglia have had a chip on their shoulder toward the Roux de Poux since the Napoleonic days.

>> No.7096527

>>7096509
This tends to be the case. That same old Christian morality has never disappeared.

>> No.7096528

>>7096505
>uneducated people are right wing
>educated people are left wing
why could that be?

>> No.7096530

FYI Paglia is more left than she is right. She calls herself a Democrat I believe.

>> No.7096531

Paglia takes pop culture too seriously

>> No.7096564

>>7096505
If it's a fad, it's a pretty longstanding fad. I've known people in academia for a good 30 years and as far as I can recall it's always been like that.

>> No.7096597

It really really isn't. In reality the split is practically even. The Right just aren't as vocal, because a propertarian class ruled society is what they want, it allows them to live out their perverted fantasies of domination to a considerable extend.

>> No.7096598

>>7096505
Most intellectuals are left-wing because they're smart

>> No.7096603

>>7096505
what are you talking about dude most "intellectuals" are anticommunist and centrist

>> No.7096620

>>7096598
This as well as right-wing ideology finding its voice in the very economic and thus political structure of society, therefore not requiring the academic platform. Left-wing ideology has very few avenues of expression open to it; academia is one of them. It is a form of protest against right-wing ideology inherent in society at large (capitalism, business influencing politics etc).

>> No.7096653

>>7096598

>le reality has le left bias

I tip my hat to you, gentlesir

>> No.7096657

>>7096653
He's right though.

>> No.7096662

>>7096657

He's not just right, he's enlightened.
Dare I say he's not just enlightened by some unremarkalbe thing but by his own intelligence.

>> No.7096665
File: 224 KB, 450x646, LeoStrauss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096665

>implying

>> No.7096666

>>7096657
no he's not. Not everyone is born equal faggot, the fundamental premise of the modern left is flawed entirely.

also
>buying into left right dichotomy

nice, faggot.

>> No.7096674

>>7096505
Depends on which part you are talking about. The huamnities are left-wing, but the economics faculties are right-wing and so are many other of the STEM faculties. There is also some other self-selection at work here, STEM majors who are right-wing don't stay in acadamia mostly. A lot of them end up view universities as a scam and leeches on society that don't really produce anything of value.

Lets not forget that lefties witch hunt right wingers out of various departments, while they are open and friendly to communists.

>> No.7096677

>>7096665
This. Strauss and Voegelin bred a multinational horde of conservative academics who have varying degrees of competence. They're associated with everything from the Koch brothers to the Vatican.

>> No.7096693

>>7096674
>Lets not forget that lefties witch hunt right wingers out of various departments, while they are open and friendly to communists.

Both sides try to witch hunt each other out of departments and try to out maneuver each other to gain control.

>> No.7096695

>>7096505
only humanities, bullshit social sciences and life sciences are like that.
business, economics, and mathematics are completely redpilled and generally right wing.


t. Economist; my colleagues talk about the Jews all the time.

>> No.7096712

>>7096505
>>7096509
>>7096527

left wing is a cheap label you people put on "opinions I don't like". there is no united left, opinions can't be "left wing" or "right wing", they're always meant to be seen in isolation.

>> No.7096720

>>7096674

>Lets not forget that lefties witch hunt right wingers out of various departments, while they are open and friendly to communists.

relax, cletus, cold war is over.

>>7096695

>my "colleagues" talk about the Jews all the time.

/biz/ is not the real world my friend.

>mathematics are completely redpilled and generally right wing.

you're fucking retarded, man.

>> No.7096723

>>7096695
Either you're a bunch of tenured old men, or you're lying.

>> No.7096727

>>7096723
My guess is they're just Australian

>> No.7096728

>>7096720
but /biz/ IS the real world, look at the Fed Chairmen. all of them Jews or Jew-related.

>>7096723
prove me wrong, fuck cunt. we are one of the few departments in my university that has the reputation of "creating right winged students" even if all we teach in the bullshit principles of econ class are basic knowledge of supply and demand applied to real life.

>> No.7096756

>>7096505
It mostly concerns the humanities, not the STEM, and it's not that much left-leaning outside of U.S.A.

>> No.7096763

>>7096598
*tips fedora*

>> No.7096767
File: 164 KB, 752x634, JUST.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096767

This article was written by a professor

>we should not bomb IS because that would be violent and illegal
>Instead, we should respect the rule of law and the peaceful resolution of disputes by promoting a diplomatic end to the Syrian conflict

>the first step must be the removal of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad

>> No.7096774

"I turned against the left wing because they don't like genetics because genetics implies that sometimes in life we fail because we have bad genes. They want all failure in life to be due to the evil system."
-James Watson

Left wing tards forever BTFO

The left wing will become more and more of a joke the more they try to deny reality and empirical evidence.
Thankfully they intend to double-down on their delusional idiocy which will cause their credibility to be erased even further as more and more facts come in.

>> No.7096776

>>7096767
Europeans are also saying all kinds of retarded things about Syria because of these boat people.

>we have to stop IS, so let's remove Assad!!

>> No.7096785

>>7096776
>>7096767
Yeah, they should spend one hour on /pol/ or in da realvworld and they would know better

>> No.7096786
File: 436 KB, 498x516, analytic philosophy fedora neckbeard euphoria.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096786

>>7096774

>> No.7096789

>>7096657
no he isn't.

Reality:
significant evidence making it more likely than not that sub-Saharan Africans are biologically predisposed to having lower IQs on average than Europeans and Asians.
Significant evidence making it more likely than not that Ashkenazi jews are biologically predisposed to having higher IQs on average than any other ethnic group found on earth.

Leftist dogma:
none of the differences in allele distributions between different ethnic groups have ANY effect whatsoever on mean IQ. None of the evidence that has been published does ANYTHING to make this statement less likely to be true than untrue.

>> No.7096792

>>7096785
Don't get defensive bruh, I just posted a quote-based summary of his article

>> No.7096794

>>7096786
This picture is great

>> No.7096796
File: 17 KB, 358x373, 1430059010909.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096796

>>7096786
keep on hiding in memes kid.

Must be scary knowing that you're on the wrong side of science.

>> No.7096800

>>7096665
Let's not forget a prominent Straussian, Harvey Mansfield. My sister went to Harvard and had him as a prof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoEQKA-5nbM

This guy is a genius.

>> No.7096805

>>7096695
>only humanities, bullshit social sciences and life sciences are like that.
>business, economics, and mathematics are completely redpilled and generally right wing.

>People who study life and humanity, who are actually knowledgeable on the world are left wing
>People who study numbers without any emotion are right wing
Doesn't surprise me.

>> No.7096806

>>7096800
>3 hours long
No.

>> No.7096815

>>7096666
I good book that you would like is "the blank slate: a modern denial of human nature" it goes into more detail about what you just said. Most left leaning policies are based off of an ideal person, or the noble savage

>> No.7096824

>>7096505
Paglia isn't right-wing.

>> No.7096854

>>7096805
>humanities
>truth
pick one, kid.

>> No.7096870
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7096870

>>7096854
>nothing personnel, kid

>> No.7096878

What a great thread. Let's spice it up.

Chomsky is a fascist billionaire.

>> No.7096882

>>7096854
We can never know the truth.

>2015
>not a complete sceptic

>> No.7096884

>>7096870
im glad somebody got my reference :D

>>7096882
only mathematical proof shows you the truth.

>> No.7096887

Higher intelligence

>> No.7096888
File: 278 KB, 460x343, 1437609504696.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096888

>>7096796
>only the science which affirms my biases is real science

As an Englishman and therefore troglodytic barbarian Watson should have known better than anyone that hard work and sheer willpower to know can overcome any genetic predisposition.

>> No.7096889

>>7096677
holy shit, someone on this board actually name dropped voegelin?
lets talk about anamnesis brospeh.

>> No.7096891
File: 63 KB, 536x609, ecstasy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096891

>>7096870

>> No.7096893

>>7096878
>fascist
Sure, on face value syndicalism can look like fascism, this can be a legit criticism depending on how one handles it.

>billionaire
I cannot foresee a world where this is actually the case. What *is* his net worth, even?

>> No.7096897

>>7096888
Watson co-discovered the double helix with Crick at age 25-28, after that, he hasn't published or done anything of note, except being used as a mascot for various human genome initiatives.

>> No.7096924

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk1GN8JV0VM

>> No.7096926

>>7096665
>based Strauss

>> No.7096935

>>7096515
Roodypoo?

>> No.7096946

>>7096505
most of them are government-sponsored bitches and as such have a stake in the matter, also they cannot stand freedom (of choice/opinion/lifestyle etc) for those they deem lesser to themselves

>> No.7096951

>>7096712
The recent development of intersectionality has made into just that. Even if those at the bottom of these movement don't care for it, their elite members are using each one to strengthen the others.

>> No.7096958

http://www.academia.edu/3684457/Anti-conservative_bias_in_education_is_real_but_not_unjust

>> No.7096967

>>7096951
>intersectionality
I never, ever want to see or hear that word again.

>> No.7096973

>>7096967
What a problematic opinion.

>> No.7096975
File: 768 KB, 720x691, dogs_diferent.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7096975

These are the same people that think races don't exist and that the "human race" is the only race. They just like to think they are morally superior. The majority of left ideals are based on a perfect human like people said earlier in this thread. It just doesn't happen.

>> No.7096983

Also the majority of these leftist have been in their rich upper class bubbles since they were born. The professors at the colleges live in their own bubble because they see only the cream of the crop of the youth.

>> No.7096990

>>7096975
Please provide us with the scientific studies, research, articles, books which that prove the reality of different human races, biologically defined, within the human species today.

>> No.7096996

>>7096951
It's the prevailing mode of thought among that part of the political spectrum, and it also remidies the issue brought up earlier. The rise of the recent social justice movement is partially due to the left becoming somewhat united.

>>7096975
Very few will ever claim that race doesn't exist. Being socially constructed is very, very different from not existing.

>> No.7097001

>>7096888
>anyone that hard work and sheer willpower to know can overcome any genetic predisposition.

false.
Train someone with downs syndrome to get a gold medal at the international mathematics Olympiad.
Train someone with genetic spinal bifida to be a highjump champion.

Well done on being a fucking retard.

>> No.7097006

>>7096990
>race is a social construct

Damn so I was right about /lit/ being a bunch of retards with books in their hands.

>> No.7097009

>>7096975
>argument by tangentially related personal preference
>>x just likes/wants to think they are y

>anon domino 2015 and thinking this is smart to say

>> No.7097015

>>7097006
Please provide us with scientific studies, research, articles, books which prove the reality of different human races, biologically defined, within the modern human species.

>> No.7097022

>>7097009
Are you sayinh I like Domino's pizza?

>> No.7097024

>>7097015
"A troublesome inheritance" is a good starting point.

If you want scientific articles, look up anything in the field of human genetic variation (that's what they call race today...). Of particular interest to you might be human genetic clustering, which is the science of categorizing different ethnic groups into clusters (spoiler : the clusters correspond with the classic definitions of race)

>> No.7097030

>>7097015
The Bell Curve (;

>> No.7097033

>>7096990
start off with these
http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf
to summarise it for you:
>provides evidence from a number of studies showing that the mean IQ of Ashkenazi jews is significantly higher than the western European average of 100.
>reviews several studies looking at several neuronal genetic diseases affecting ashkenazi jews disproportionately more than gentiles
>these diseases all effect a very similar set of metabolic pathways and proteins and affect things like how much myelination there is around neurons
>several of these alleles have been found to have a positive effect on IQ when hetereozygous with the normal gene the same way that the sickle-cell anaemia allele is actually beneficial when it is heterozygous because the full effects of the disease are not experienced but the benefit is still there
>genetic simulations were performed that these closely related neuronal diseases and the alleles responsible for them would be very unlikely to result in such concentration amongst Ashkenazi jews just by genetic drift
>strongly indicating that there was actually a selection pressure for these normally deleterious alleles

So yeah there is actually a good amount of evidence that Ashkenazi jews do have a higher mean IQ than other races for genetic reasons.

Not enough that you would claim 'for certain' , but enough that if you were a rational person and offered an even odds bet on whether you thought that the mean IQ of Ashkenazi jews was much higher than that of non-jews for entirely cultural reasons, or whether there was a genetic component as well as any cultural reasons, you as a rational person ought to bet on the latter , because there is evidence that the allele distribution of Ashkenazi jews does have demonstrable effect on their IQ , and no evidence to suggest that genes play no role at all in intelligence.

Get rekt

>> No.7097036

>>7097030
The Bell Curve, while an excellent book, isn't really about racial differences in intelligence, and is even less a book about anthropology.

>> No.7097037

>>7097024
>"A troublesome inheritance" is a good starting point.

Is exactly *not* a good starting point - it's written by a New York Times journalist, not by a scientist. He completely misrepresents human genetics research.

For some actual scientists' takes on the book:

https://stanfordcehg.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/echoes-of-the-past-hereditarianism-and-a-troublesome-inheritance/

www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/jun/05/stretch-genes/

>> No.7097040

>>7096990
Also look into skull structures and genes like MAOA.

>> No.7097043

Lmao rising pollution detected
Care to dump some infopics

>> No.7097046

Because mostly women study today and feminism makes them cry pretty loud. And weak people just follow them.

>> No.7097050

Just look into your soul fam

>> No.7097051

>>7097037
He wrote the science column for the NYT for over 20 years, he's not a pleb.

You are commiting a fallacy : an appeal to authority. I hadn't read your article but as soon as I saw stanford in the link I knew it would be by Marcus Feldman. That guy is the modern day Steven Jay Gould, and is constantly pushing a political agenda in his research.

Anyways, gonna read the article, brb

>> No.7097053

>>7097015
Take a look at every negroid dominated area.

That's all the proof needed. (;

>> No.7097056

>>7097015
https://www.23andme.com/en-gb/

Look at that, it's possible to discern where most of someone's ancestors have lived for the last 30 thousand years just by looking at their DNA.

But how can that be unless geographically separated groups of people were subjected to different selection pressures and so developed discernably, measurably different allele distributions over time?

If race did not exist, if the human genepool was distributed completely at random throughout the world at maximum entropy such that no information could be inferred about where someone's ancestors were from just by looking at their DNA, THEN races would not exist and the human species would be totally homogenous.

But that is not the case, and it's usually possible to tell a lot about someone's ancestors and where they were from just from their DNA.


Sorry for making you look so ignorant and inept and proving that you're wrong so badly.

>> No.7097059
File: 275 KB, 1151x487, camille-toss-the-word-salad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7097059

>my waifu

>> No.7097061

>>7097056
Ok, you can fuck off now, back to /pol/ big boi

>> No.7097065

>>7097051
"You committed a fallacy!" is the dumbest meme in online discussions.

Next time I'll go listen to my doctor instead of my naturopath I'll shout "appeal to authority!!"

>> No.7097066

>>7097061
Losing an argument? Just scream "back to /pol/!" and you automatically win!

>> No.7097067

>>7097066
.

>> No.7097070

>>7097061
lol pretty sad response mate.

>> No.7097071

>>7097070
.

>> No.7097072

>>7096889
I would think that most people who know Strauss know Voegelin as well, the two overlapped a great deal in both students and substance.

>lets talk about anamnesis brospeh.
Start up the thread, I can talk Voegelin all day, though I may not be very positive about the majority of Voegelinians

>> No.7097073

>>7097061
>get proven wrong
>"I will not let logic or facts change my dogma"

classic leftism.
How intellectually weak and crippled.

>> No.7097076

>>7097073
.

>> No.7097077

>>7097056
>I can show you who your parents were
>this means people around you in an arbitrarily chosen surrounding are part of a distinct group, different from all other people, even though among groups features vary immensely from intelligence to appearance, you're still the same, and we are going to throw you together and label you something!
Damn. You sure showed him, mate.

>> No.7097081

>>7096967
Shitlord ;)

>> No.7097083

>>7097056
>>7097077
PS!
>tfw common ancestor
>tfw all the same race after all
No supremacy for you, dear.

>> No.7097085

>>7097077
>here I am describing outliers

>> No.7097087

>>7097083
Are you black? Why are you so offended?

>> No.7097089

>>7097077
>>7097081
>>7097083
.

>> No.7097091

>>7097065
>"You committed a fallacy!" is the dumbest meme in online discussions.
It's not a meme, it's basic debating.

Your analogy is wrong. A proper analogy would be a doctor telling you you have cancer and you responding "you're wrong doctor, here's a blog post about why I don't have cancer". Because you do realize that your "refutal" was a blog post, right?

Anyways, I skimmed the blog post. What a joke.

It starts with a chilling quoting of le evil nazi boogeyman Jensen (despite Jensen's data not being used once in Wade's book). Feldman then goes on to quote the fucking Lewontin fallacy. It's as if he's still living in the 1970s.

He then goes on to summarize the book, throws the word "racist" in once or twice, and concludes by saying something along the lines of "this book is racist".

>> No.7097093

>>7097085
>>7097087
.

>> No.7097097

>>7097091
.

>> No.7097099

>>7097077
>>this means people around you in an arbitrarily chosen surrounding are part of a distinct group, different from all other people
That is factually correct.

Read up on human genetic clustering.

>even though among groups features vary immensely from intelligence to appearance,
Within certain bounds. You won't find many ethnic swedes with black skin and kinky hair.

Also, what is relevant here is difference in the average traits between groups (such as average IQ).

>> No.7097100

>>7097091
Sooooo you haven't read the reviews? What blog-posts? Huh?

>> No.7097102
File: 149 KB, 499x499, and she goes down.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7097102

>>7096805
Here's a tip, get a real degree

>> No.7097109

>>7096990
I just want to say “fuck you”. You're the kind of poster I could meet on /lgbt/, who cornered by science ask for studies and evidences, perfectly knowing *nobody* on 4chan will spend half an hour gathering them for you so you can wait ten minutes then win with some a silentio argument and if ever ask you to prove your point you just put up the burden of proof. Fuck you.

Fuck you.
Fuck you.
Fuck you.

>> No.7097110

>>7097100
> What blog-posts?
The first link you posted? The wordpress blog?

Have you even read it?

Reading the other review, the author of the review doesn't deny the genetic basis for racial classification, so I don't know why you posted it.

To quote it :
>To put the conclusion more technically, the genomes of various human beings fall into several reasonably well-defined clusters when analyzed statistically, and these clusters generally correspond to continent of origin. In this statistical sense, races are real.

>> No.7097112

>>7097077
>are part of a distinct group,
>different from all other people
>you're still the same,

Way to try and shift the goal posts matey.

here's the reality.
>say as a result of happenstance and human history we have cohabited or shared the same language, let's call ourselves something to identify ourselves with
>ok , good idea , we are tribe X
>10000 years later
>oh look at that, having sampled the thousands and thousands of people, we see that the allele distribution of the people of X-istan , particularly in terms of more conserved Y-chromosome DNA, is indeed more similar to the allele distribution of neighbouring Y-istan than it is to Z-land which is on a different continent.
>furthermore we we've identified several genetic conditions which seem to be much more common amongst the people of X-istan than most other populations. This will make a difference to diagnosis as these conditions are normally far more rare and so would normally not be considered as a likely explanation.
>as it happens, the diaspora of X-istan living in Z-land also have been found to have a mean IQ of 105 whereas the native population of Z-land has a mean IQ of 100. let's investigate their alleles further.

This is the reality of race that you are trying you best to claim doesn't exist.

>> No.7097121

>>7097083
This is retarded as saying that because all mammals have the same common ancestor that there's no difference between a lion and a human.

just because we're all descended from the same thig millions and millions of years ago does not mean that we are all the same now.

>> No.7097124

>>7097033
>So yeah there is actually a good amount of evidence that Ashkenazi jews do have a higher mean IQ than other races for genetic reasons.
You skipped a few steps there: How did you go from that study to conclude Ashkenazi jews constitute a separate human race?

>>7097056
>If race did not exist, if the human genepool was distributed completely at random throughout the world at maximum entropy...
The first conditional clause has no relation to your second one.

>>7097061
this isn't me.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/
http://philpapers.org/archive/WINTGR.pdf

>> No.7097130

>>7097033
This post has been left unchallenged :^)

>> No.7097134

>>7097112
>he believes the out of africa jew
>he doesn't know about based Carleton Coon
Racial differences coulnd't have come about in such a short period of time. We interbred with pre existing hominid populations. Asians with homo floresiensis, niggers with homo erectus and whites with Neanderthals. You can look up the latter groups in google images, and what do you know, they look strikingly similar to the former groups.

>> No.7097142

>>7097124
>You skipped a few steps there: How did you go from that study to conclude Ashkenazi jews constitute a separate human race?
Read here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jewish_origins

>>7097134
While it's true eurasians have neanderthal dna, fuck off with your bad science.

>> No.7097145

>>7097142
>bad science
You have a lot of reading left to do.

>> No.7097148

>>7096990
Fam it's basic medicine
>only people who suffer from sickle cell disease are either african or have african heritage
>Dupuytren's contracture happens only in people descended from celts and scandinavians
>Ashkenazis have a greater risk of Tay-Sachs disease than any other ethnic group on earth
And those are just at the top of my head

>> No.7097151

>>7097109
lol keep getting angry over Taiwanese comic board posts buddy, I'm sure it does wonders for your blood pressure

>> No.7097152

>>7097145
Eurasians left Africa and diverged 50 000 years ago. That is plenty of time for evolution to occur.

Blue eyes are only 6k years old. White skin probably 10k years old. The white phenotype is very recent, and has nothing to do with neanderthal (abos have neanderthal genes too y'know...)

>> No.7097154

>>7096665
Fuck off Wolfowitz.

>> No.7097158

>>7097152
Abos are basically apes though

>> No.7097164

>>7097158
Agreed. Yet they too have "muh neanderthal genes".

Neanderthal admixture probably got picked up early when the proto-eurasians were leaving Africa through the Levant.

>> No.7097169

>believing scientists

>> No.7097174

>>7097152
>Blue eyes are only 6k years old
The black sea basin theory is bunk. We know Neanderthals had the trait much longer than that through DNA analysis.

>> No.7097177

>>7097169
>believing philosophers when philosophy is 99% bullshit

>> No.7097180

>>7097124
You seem to be using the word race in a very peculiar way.

Why don't we try seeing which of these yes or no statements you agree with or disagree with
>1.as a result of happenstance and human history humans who have cohabited or shared the same language called themselves something to identify themselves with. e.g. anglo saxon, Ashkenazi jewish, Pashtun, etc.
>2.with genetics , it is possible to sample these groups of people, look at the distribution of their alleles and find out how close to each other they are genetically
>3.possible to find out how frequently these groups possess certain alleles
>4.possible to find out whether these alleles have certain measurable effects on height, disease, skin tone, muscle fibre composition, etc.
>5.possible to find out whether these alleles effect intelligence
>6. it is possible to look at a single person's DNA and usually tell quite accurately which of these groups he and his ancestors probably belonged to

how many of these do you agree with?
points 1-4 and 6 are uncontroversial , objective fact. I am sorry if you are ignorant of this but that's just the way it is.
number 5 is controversial but more and more evidence is emerging and will emerge showing which genes affect intelligence. Ive already posted one large, widely cited study doing this for Ashkenazi jews.

Now if you agree with 1-4 and 6 then you are implicitly admitting that races exist and have measurable average differences.
Maybe you want to use race to have a different meaning so that you can avoid having to acknowledge these 6 points, but that doesn't really interest me.
The other option is that you don't agree with these 6 points, which is ok for point 5 since it is still on the cutting edge so to speak, but intolerably ignorant otherwise.

either way I win.

>> No.7097182

>>7097099
>You won't find many ethnic swedes with black skin and kinky hair.
>ethnic Swedes
Oh, look, another made up word.
Tell me, how long before you stop being an immigrant and become an ethnic? serious question.
>>7097112
People have migrated forever. There is no X or Y sample, unless (maybe) you want to look at isolated tribes, but ''anthropology'' already tried that whole thing.
>>7097121
And the people ITT are trying to arbitrarily create a cut-off point to start calling different evolutionary traits ''races'', see the post I replied to above, with his ''ethnic Swedes'' implying they were just there, purebred as they are today or some shit.

The reason these discussions always annoy me is because it's arbitrary nonsense talk about made up borders and made up measuring tools (where are all the ''who gives a shit about IQ'' people in the racism threads?), to make sweeping generalizations that don't account for 99% of humanity today, and that will just get dick slapped by individuals. But let's suppose you're right, let's suppose you're 100% correct. Then what? What are you going to do now that you've got the truth?

>> No.7097183

>>7097174
>The black sea basin theory is bunk.
A citation would be welcome

> We know Neanderthals had the trait much longer than that through DNA analysis.
Doesn't necessarily mean that we inherited it from them, considering that once again, north east asians, abos and everyone else has neanderthal admixture yet no blue eyes whatsoever.

>> No.7097191

>>7097182
>Oh, look, another made up word.
Holy shit are you for real?

>Tell me, how long before you stop being an immigrant and become an ethnic? serious question.
Immigrants never become natives. They remain forever foreigners. The only way an immigrant becomes a native is if he conquers and genocides the original population, like what happened in the Americas or in Australia.

A somalian immigrant to Sweden will never, ever be swedish.

>with his ''ethnic Swedes'' implying they were just there, purebred as they are today or some shit.
Are you for real? Ethnic Swedes have been the same ever since Sweden was settled during the neolithic.

What's next, Chinese aren't really chinese?

>> No.7097196
File: 79 KB, 563x517, american pepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7097196

>>7097182
>Oh, look, another made up word.
Yeah because that's why we don't have to separate Native Americans from the english colonists

>> No.7097202

>>7097182
All words are made up you dip

>> No.7097211

>>7096505
Radical views have often been held by academia since pretty much forever, and remember that left-wing used to be synonymous with radical views. The reason being that they're some of the only people who spend extended periods of time thinking up alternative views to those in power, or in other words the right-wing. Now we see that many academics have become nothing more than paid combatants for powerful groups.

>> No.7097227

>>7097191
>Holy shit are you for real?
>live 1 meter across the Norse border
Well, not Swedish anymore, mate. Sorry. Don't care about your ancestry. Also, borders never moved in the history of ever, so, tough luck. Also, does this make England full of native Swedes/Norwegians? What about the Northern shores of Europe?

>Immigrants never become natives.
>A somalian immigrant to Sweden will never, ever be swedish.
>tfw we're all from Africa
>tfw Swedish people don't exist

>Are you for real? Ethnic Swedes have been the same ever since Sweden was settled during the neolithic.
>No Norwegians/Fins/Danes/Germans/Russians ever went to Sweden and settled, they're 100% pure ''Swedish'', guys.

>What's next, Chinese aren't really chinese?
1 quick look at Chinese history, define ''China'', please. Or are you trying to say that an incredibly diverse group of peoples, in a country bigger than Western Europe is homogenous now? Gee, how can there be such a thing as ''ethnic Swedes'' and ''ethnic Chinese''? How can you possibly justify to yourself that you give a small piece of land the same right to ''racial unity'' or ''ethnicity'' as a massive part of the world that has seen hundreds of different tribes/peoples/''ethnicities'' over the years, with vast centres of trade and ''race mixing'' that go with it?

>>7097196
>Native Americans
>implying they were united
>implying they felt any sense of homogeneity
>implying they were ''the same kind of people''

>>7097202
You know what I meant, mate.

>> No.7097237

>>7097191
>What's next, Chinese aren't really chinese?
Actually, they aren't -- "China" is a clusterfuck amalgamation of western[1] colonialism that started in the low thousands B.C. and ended around the Tang Dynasty. (Give or take, of course one can't quantify this sort of thing precisely.)

Most of what we believe to be 'Chinese culture' is actually fairly recent clever cultural appropriation of the indigenous south-east-asian customs by said colonists.

[1] 'Western' as in by some bronze-age tribe that conquered the place coming from the west. Who they were exactly is lost in the mists of time; some claim they came from the Caucasus mountains and are related to modern-day caucasian tribes, but that's veering into crackpot science theory.

>> No.7097240

>>7097227
>Well, not Swedish anymore, mate. Sorry.
That's the opposite of what I'm claiming. A swede living in the Congo rainforest is still a Swede.

> Don't care about your ancestry
Oh, you were talking about you. You're a fucking moron.

> Also, borders never moved in the history of ever, so, tough luck.
Borders have moved, but peoples generally haven't. Did polish people completely disappear off the face of the earth in the 18th century and magically reappeared after ww1? Poland didn't exist between that time. So Polish people didn't exist either, according to your stellar logic.

>Also, does this make England full of native Swedes/Norwegians? What about the Northern shores of Europe?
Yes, Eastern england has a very strong nordic genetic component.

>Immigrants never become natives.
>A somalian immigrant to Sweden will never, ever be swedish.
>tfw we're all from Africa
>tfw Swedish people don't exist
At this point I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely this retarded.

>No Norwegians/Fins/Danes/Germans/Russians ever went to Sweden and settled, they're 100% pure ''Swedish'', guys.

They are all of the same race.

>1 quick look at Chinese history, define ''China'', please.
All right I'm done.

>> No.7097242

>>7097182
You're right that people have bred and travelled but that doesn't matter.

Nothing about what has been said requires for groups of people to have been totally isolated or separate.


Let's say that you wanted to look at the jewish people
then you'd ask people whether they were jewish during your sampling, do all the things described above and you'd have information about one group of people and how close they are to other groups genetically.

But then let's say someone says "European jews aren't real jews, they're khazar converts from the caucases , only Sephardi and middle eastern jews are real jews"
And then yu go fine and this time you sample from Sephardic and middle eastern jewish communities and once again you find out all this information from them, you probably find out that their allele distribution is pretty similar to Ashkenazi jews (infact this is found), you find out that they're much less frequently effected by those rare brain diseases, etc.
and now you have information about the group of people that are considered to be Sephardic and Mizrahi jews.

And ? It doesn't matter.
Either way the information you're extracting about those groups of people is accurate, even if the grouping itself isn't "closed".

Take the case of "ethnic swede". well someone might consider an ethnic swede to be someone for whom 5 generations of their family have lived in Sweden, another person would consider it to be that 10 generations of their family have lived in Sweden.
Either way you could find people who qualified for either definition and you'd find out their allele distribution etc, and you'd find that the two populations allele distributions are extremely similar, which is what we would expect right?

The definition of a group of people could be oconsidered "arbitrary" , but that arbitrariness is not important. PEople are usually happy to agree on the meaning of "Afghanistan" or "jewish" or aboriginal so you don't see this kind of pedantry normally, but it makes no difference to the facts that you have found out.

even if you think that the borders of x-istan should be slightly different , either way you can sample people from x-istan borders 1 or x-istan borders two, and for each group you can see that they are indeed more closely related to neighbouring y-istan than Z-land on another continent.


So nothing you're saying makes any difference at all

>> No.7097243

>>7097237
>Actually, they aren't
I should've been more precise.

Are the han chinese not a distinct group? Are the Japanese not a distinct group? Are australian aboriginals not a distinct group?

>> No.7097253

>>7097227
Please stop going for the weak link and respond to me >>7097180 >>7097242

>> No.7097256

>>7097180
>You seem to be using the word race in a very peculiar way.
I'm asking for scientific research showing clear biologically distinct, non-arbitrary, groups within the human species. It doesn't exist.

See the 'discussion' part of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/ for the rest of what you're saying

>> No.7097260

>>7097240
>A swede living in the Congo rainforest is still a Swede.
When are you going to realize that ''Sweden'' does not exist?
>Oh, you were talking about you.
What are you on about?
>Borders have moved, but peoples generally haven't.
>what are the late antiquity migrations
>what are the muslim expansions
>what is the reconquista
>what are the mongol expansions
>what are the crusades
>what are the religious wars
>who are the huguenots
Just a small example, Spinoza was a ''Portugese'' jew living in ''The Netherlands''

>At this point I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely this retarded.
At this point you should realize that the cliché is there to show you that you need to come up with a definite cut-off point for migration, because otherwise you have no foot to stand on.
>They are all of the same race.
Why? Based on what? Do you know how big Russia is? Are you aware of what you're saying?