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/lit/ - Literature

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7095237 No.7095237 [Reply] [Original]

'The victim who is able to articulate the situation of the victim has ceased to be a victim: he or she has become a threat.'

Discuss.

>> No.7095242

>>7095237

>le highly educated negro

Do they ever write about anything besides muh slavery muh racism muh civil rights?

>> No.7095243

>>7095237
College Liberal trash

>> No.7095248

>>7095242
Well, you know, writers are going to write about what effects them and what they care about. Just saying.

>> No.7095256

>>7095243
why tho?

>> No.7095280

>>7095248
>but when an ethnic Western European proudly writes about pre-modern Europe, it's eurocentric, because all whites must hate their heritage and themselves
Oy vey!

>> No.7095282
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7095282

So sick of fucking nigger shit

MUH SLAVERY MUH HARRIET TUBMAN MUH FREDERICK DOUGLASS MUH BELOVED MUH CAGED BIRD SINGING MUH DREAMS BEING MOCKED TO DEATH BY TIME MUH NEGRO SPIRITUALS MUH TOUSSAINT L'OVERTURE MUH TRIANGULAR TRADE MUH APARTHEID MUH RACE RELATIONS MUH WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE BLACK... IN AMERICA?? MUH POWER STRUCTURES MUH INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM MUH MLK MUH MLK DAY MUH BLACK HISTORY MONTH MUH MAYA ANGELOU MUH HARLEM RENAISSANCE MUH SYSTEMIC RACISM MUH DISCRIMINATION MUH OUT OF AFRICA MUH RACE IS SKIN-DEEP

been hearing this shit since 5th fucking grade enough already. the worst part is i love black music, love competetent black actors (the hood scenes in the wire were fuckin' poetry), and im always down for a good, articulate book written by a black author but this white guilt shit needs to fucking go my hombre

>> No.7095298

is baldwin any good?

>> No.7095305

>>7095237
Essentially: "where there is a Will, there is a way." Which I think is true

>> No.7095317

>>7095305
I'd also add that being cognizant of your own victimhood is a crucial part of surmounting your victimhood. This is common sense.

>> No.7095325

>>7095282

This

Everything we read in school was fucking white guilt trash novels

>muh slavery
>muh Indians
>muh shoah

Rinse and repeat for a fucking decade

>> No.7095471

>>7095242
Giovanni's Room.

>> No.7095478

>>7095242
>>7095282
>>7095325
It's not going to stop until they feel they're being treated fairly. They know white people don't feel guilty about it. They aren't creating anything for the purpose of instilling 'white guilt' in all caucasions. The fuck would be the use in that

>> No.7095489
File: 179 KB, 691x800, achebe 5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7095489

>>7095242
muh colonialism

>> No.7095493

>>7095282
>>7095242
literally have never read any baldwin. His best book is about two white males lovers. Stay cucked

>> No.7095504

>>7095478
PLEASE TRY TO FOLLOW THE PREMISE

>> No.7095506

>>7095493
Sounds like Baldwin was the cucked one, dreaming about the white booty lel

>> No.7095515

>>7095282
I seem to remember Baldwin saying in an interview that "white guilt" was a reality only for white Americans that he found annoying when I encountered it. He's also said repeatedly that white guilt was detrimental to race relations and the only way for real progress to happen was for white liberals to move past their guilt.

Gimme a sec and I'll post citation.

>> No.7095521

>>7095489
At least Achebe tries to be fair and honest.

>> No.7095524

>>7095515
White guilt doesn't exist. That is all.

>> No.7095525

>>7095506
You don't have to be a cuck to appreciate a little vanilla treat every now and then.

>> No.7095533

>>7095524
It does. I've seen it in action, and it's hilarious.

>> No.7095536

>>7095515
Sounds pretty based for a manlet.

The belligerent attitude that comes out when race relations are brought up with most university black people comes off as really childish even when they speak the truth.

>> No.7095560

>>7095533
how? where?

>> No.7095561

>>7095536
>University black people
You mean uni students or professional academics?

Either way, that's one of the reasons I enjoy Baldwin's work; I've never found a video clip of him raising his voice our anything written by him that was short of eloquence. He's the only consistently calm and level-headed writer of race-relations I can think of.

>> No.7095571

>>7095242
>not just le educated well-spoken man with thoughts
>must be le educated BLACK man

found the racist

>> No.7095577

>>7095493
yeah cause judging from this thread he's the only one who wouldn't serve a screechy tumblr curriculum's agenda that well. ive heard good things.

i unironically enjoy good minority artists if they just shut the fuck up about muh what it means to be asian/filipino/black/aboriginal/martian in america for a fucking second

>> No.7095581

>>7095561
Both. I've seen esteemed black professors and students get extremely wound up by questions from people who were genuinely sympathetic to them, as in a skinny Jewish kid with an ACLU button on his backpack asks a question and some affirmative action case starts sucking their teeth right away. Sadly, it would seem that a lot of black people have learned to enjoy guilt-tripping white people as a power play rather than a means to any productive end.

>> No.7095583

>>7095571
hit the bricks back to tumblr fuckboy

>> No.7095586

>>7095577
i would read a well informed novel about what its like to be martian in america tbqh

>> No.7095606

>>7095571
The point I tried to make was that most commentators, regardless of their race, are prone to stumble with their words or otherwise fall back on overtly emotional or otherwise childish arguments at some point, and that Baldwin is the only exception I've come across.

>> No.7095630

>>7095577
Baldwin is tumblr's intersectional superhero. He is their agenda personified.

>> No.7095658

>be a bone-thin Jew in Auschwitz
>say "I'm a Jew in a nazi death camp"
???
>profit
wow so threat
very intellectual negro

>> No.7095672

>>7095581
The students I can understand, it's seems to me that society is encouraging my generation to embrace our childhood and behave as such. I myself am given to juvenile rhetoric on occasion if only because years of facebook and twitter have trained me to half-believe that this is the proper way for speaking. So, yeah, I would blame the attitude of today's college students more on their shared generation as a whole rather than race.
Can't speak on black professors though. My higher education was cut short and I never engaged with one. So I'll take you word on that one.

I used to to have a black friend back in Florida who did what you're describing, albeit jokingly fore the most part. I personally condone this behavior as an ineffectual defense mechanism against a society and history neither he nor the white person he would guilt trip had any control over. And, honestly, I couldn't compare a minor power play like that to the constant struggle (I feel like I'll be blasted for that word) black people face in everyday life.

>> No.7095676

What's the name of this dude? No one has said it yet, faggots

>> No.7095694

>Minorities claim they are not responsible for their disadvantaged position
>Minorities get defensive and upset when the topic is brought up, especially by a white guy
>no civilized human being in the 1st world considers things people have no control over to be their fault
so are black people uncivilized, or are they just incapable of recognizing white people's civilization?

>> No.7095695

>>7095325
why do so many white American "intellectuals" bluntly admit that they can't wrap their head around a narrative if it's not about white people? It's embarrassing

Also you're a fucking pleb if you haven't read Baldwin

>> No.7095696

>>7095676
James Baldwin. Brother's ice cold.

>> No.7095699

>>7095672
I can't get too upset about it in the general public, but I went to a very good university where the level of discourse was generally quite high, so the outbursts seemed exceptional and inappropriate in that setting. This wasn't in response to ignorant shit like, "racism is over," or "blacks shouldn't vote," it was just the nitty-gritty of social change that served as an excuse to poison the well out of spite.

>> No.7095706

>>7095561
lol who are Richard Wright, Chimamanda Adichie, Toni Morrison, Alice Walker

>> No.7095712

>>7095694
Blacks in America, like other subjugated peoples, generally take the position of hostile weakness. This is characterized by a pattern of hostility, paranoia, tribalism and refusal of accountability.

Another way to look at it is that universalist ethics are pretty much unique to European discourse and anyone without that cultural background is inclined to by tribalistic in a way that's infuriating to most westerners. Most African-Americans still haven't had cause to engage with that sort of philosophy and so the idea of true universal brotherhood is completely alien to them.

>> No.7095724

He's fucking BTFO SJWs and their 'victim blaming' you mongs

>> No.7095734

If anyone wants to hear Baldwin speak (and in due course get btfo) they can watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFeoS41xe7w

>> No.7095747

>>7095734
>tfw you like Baldwin but he's toothless
Buckley's such a pro.

>> No.7095766

this is classic subaltern discourse

>> No.7095887

>>7095695
I've been forced to read more 'pro-black' books than of the greats.

You should finish your freshman year of college and have read a majority of the books in the /lit/ wiki's starter. I read Gatsby, and thats about it

>> No.7095941

>>7095887
can't read anything non-white and he thinks /lit/ has good taste

>> No.7095954

>>7095941
>implying I haven't been reading as a major hobby since the sophomore year of college
>implying I'm not currently in the workforce and that was years ago

Try again.

The crucible was a garbage read, and i'll never forgive my teachers for choosing a that over anything else

>> No.7095967

>>7095954
I don't know what that has to do with my post but you seem really insecure buddy

>> No.7095972

>>7095734
His arguments albeit wonderful, aren't culturally relevant anymore.

>> No.7095975

>>7095954
oh wow, a MAJOR hobby? since your SOPHMORE YEAR OF COLLEGE? god damn everybody, get out of the way and let this guy post

>> No.7095976

>>7095975
Nigga, that was 8 years ago for me

>> No.7095982

>>7095967
/lit/'s core books are objectively good.

Black books aren't better than white books
Good books are better than bad books. that is all

>> No.7095986

>>7095976
it was 9 for me dude. this sounds like retarded oneupmanship but I graduated in 09

>> No.7095992

>>7095986
Then what's your point?

Because you read some garbage YA shit tier books while in high school you think you're better than me?

yeah no, fuck you.

>> No.7096020

>>7095992
>he didnt read infinite jest in junior year of high school

fookin pleb

>> No.7096025

>>7095986
>>7095992
you're both fuckin' morons. shut up.

>> No.7096029

>>7095992
I have no idea what you're talking about, I just jumped into this conversation because you said some absolutely retarded shit about how you declared your hobby major in reading your sophomore year

>> No.7096033

I know all

I dare you to debate me.

>> No.7096034

>>7096020
>not reading infinite jest in elementary school

I learned infinite jest as a language

>> No.7096035

>>7096033
god iz real

>> No.7096042

>>7096033
Creationism is wrong, prove me wrong.

>> No.7096043

>>7096029
Are you autistic?

>> No.7096048

>>7095280
Whites, taking out on niggers what has been wreaked on them by kikes since forever.

>> No.7096053

>>7096043
No

>> No.7096059
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7096059

>>7096048

>> No.7096063

So 'I'm being murdered' is a threat?

>> No.7096064

>>7096053
Then why does the concept of major and minor hobbies upset you?

>> No.7096070

>>7096064
you throwing a fit about how you know more because you've been reading since your sophomore year of college is dumb. the end

>> No.7096076

>>7095954
The Crucible is decent but is the weakest Arthur Miller play commonly taught.

All My Sons is brilliant.

>> No.7096077

>>7096070
I was establishing what I know. Nowhere did i claim superiority

>> No.7096113

>>7095954
>>7095992

No one was stopping you from reading whatever you wanted in your spare time while you were in school. I guess I have to check my privilege though because when I was in highschool there was a class called "Literature" and an AP English class that covered a large chunk of entry level litcore. I don't remember reading that many "black" books but this was Canada. I don't know what difference does it make anyway, you've read them now right? School isn't perfect for anyone - they have to accommodate a wide range of children. People are free to specialize in university so it's not like they're deprived.

>> No.7096122

>>7096113
So you're fine with your countrymen, people who have the right to vote, not reading any of these:
1984, Lord of the Flies, Clockwork Orange, Aristotle, Animal Farm, Gatsby?

Because I think having a well educated populace is important, especially when you put the common man in the drivers seat with democracy and all

>> No.7097773

>>7096122
Can't speak for the other poster, but many people read those books and don't understand them. Reading comprehension is more important than just reading.

>> No.7098561

/lit/ is full of disgusting shitbrain teenagers

Yikes

>> No.7098639

>>7096122

Maybe I don't think everyone should be allowed to vote :^) Seriously though, I think you're right, but it's a high ideal. I went to a "good school" in a relatively affluent suburb but even there getting kids to actually read the assigned books was like pulling teeth. I can't imagine what it would be like in the Ghetto.

>> No.7098647

>>7095237

Pretty gay tbh

Yeah, sure, if you're the prison's fuckboy you can say that to yourself every night to sob more lightly.

You're still getting fucked.

And threat my ass. Typical example of a coward who can't fight back and justifies himself as good as posible

>> No.7098650

>>7095237
Just because you can articulate doesn't mean others will listen.

You have to force them to at bayonet point.

>> No.7098652

who /lit/ here

>> No.7098657

>>7098647
This. The bitch and complain approach to getting what you want is a surefire way to be seen as a child and only appeased, not respected.

Malcolm X knew what was up.

>> No.7098658

>>7095489
Nigga, Achebe shat on people using "muh victimhood" as a free win card in debates and discussion about the effects of colonialism.

>> No.7098661

'The obnoxious black person who is able to constantly complain and beg for attention has ceased to be humble and productive: he or she has become an irritation to society at large.'

-- jb

>> No.7098663

>>7095524
White guilt absolutely exists. Just look at Sweden.

>> No.7098673

>>7098652
bookfags fuck off

>> No.7098674

>>7098658
Yet he wrote an essay about how "muh racism" in Heart of Darkness.

>> No.7098685

>>7098658
It sure would be nice if he practiced what he preached. Maybe then I wouldn't have to slog through his self-pitying essays in my World Lit class...

>> No.7098691

>>7098674
It would be one thing if he was calling Conrad racist. But he was talking about racism as a theme that I agree can definitely be argued exists in great degrees.

>> No.7098695

>>7098685
Broken clocks, my nog

>> No.7098747
File: 52 KB, 850x400, quote-we-feel-free-because-we-lack-the-very-language-to-articulate-our-unfreedom-slavoj-zizek-280586.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7098747

You quivering labias, this sounds almost like a Zizek quote, and if it had been it would have been a very different thread.

But instead all we get is
>negro negro negro
What the hell /lit/

>> No.7098789

>>7095493
>His best book is about two white males lovers

I assume you are talking about Giovonnis room, in which case the narrator is not explicit identified as white, bc he is an author surrogate, but not the main corrector so his experience is Tertiary. . also he is not really giovonnis lover, so i think you fucked up.

>> No.7098808

>>7098789

dang, sorry, on I guess you were p talking about Another country.

>> No.7098961

>>7098747
Zizek's quote is far less self-congratulating and narcissistic though

>> No.7099217

>>7098789
>I assume you are talking about Giovonnis room, in which case the narrator is not explicit identified as white, bc he is an author surrogate
>David, a blond American. The protagonist. His mother died when he was five years old.

Giovanni's Room is his best book and about two white male lovers.

>> No.7099283

>>7098961
How is Baldwin's quote self-congratulating and narcissistic?

>> No.7100652

He's right but so what.

>> No.7100666

>>7095630
well, he's being characterized itt as being quite nice.
what does that say about tumblr?
probably nothing, because you're probably just memeing.

>> No.7100727

Report the thickos and ignore

>>7095298
Yes.

>> No.7100751

>>7095237
A threat to what? What was the context?

>> No.7101515

>>7099217

he is not giovonnis lover though

>> No.7101530

>>7099283
He's high-fiving himself for being "a threat". He's portraying the act of whining about social norms as more dangerous and aggressive than it is actually is, fueling his personal fantasies of being a revolutionary (and by extension, his followers who pretend to be him).

>> No.7101705

>>7101530
why do you think Baldwin is congratulating himself for being a threat but Zizek isn't congratulating himself for working towards "articulating his unfreedom" or whatever?

>> No.7101720

>>7095242
Read Marechera you ignorant slut

>> No.7101768

>>7101705
Because
a) he is highlighting his own ignorance, not condescending others for theirs
b) he is describing his inability to be free, not lionizing his own complaints
c) his quote says nothing of working towards "articulating his unfreedom". You added "working towards" in
d) he is portraying himself as pathetic and powerless, not pretending to be a noble revolutionary who everybody is morally obligated to agree with

>> No.7101898

>>7101768
I don't understand why you assume Baldwin is saying he's able to articulate his situation but Zizek is not saying that.

>> No.7102087

>>7101898
It sounds like you don't understand anything since you've spent this entire thread asking me questions with answers obvious to everybody else

>> No.7102098

>>7102087
I've asked you two questions but I'm sorry you're unable to answer the second

>> No.7102323

what about perpetual victims who seek out their victimization in every situation?

>> No.7102356

Sometimes i look at the title of a book/cover of a book and try to guess if if was written by a man or a woman.

I have never been wrong.

>> No.7104190

James Baldwin is so fucking awesome

>> No.7105642

>>7101530
Guess he was right though, considering how threatened this thread sounds.