/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7089958]

Thoughts on Peter Hitchens?

[Anonymous No.7089966]

Interesting figure. Massively outclasses every other political commentator on the left or the right who are prominent in the media in either the UK or the US.

[Anonymous No.7089988]

peter is best hitchens

[Anonymous No.7090033]

He's a proper conservative and promotes literature, what's not to like?

[Anonymous No.7090035]

>>7089988
and the only hitchens

[Anonymous No.7090039]

>>7089958
anyone got THAT quote?

[Anonymous No.7090119]

>>7090039
https://youtu.be/L8ZIguWXo7k?t=865

This one?

And if you're in the mood for rage, try and slog through this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoUIa5_yFI8

Peter does absolutely annihilate the first questioner and all he's left with is some stupid smug look on his face, as if he somehow won.

[Anonymous No.7090133]

>>7090119
nah, i remember seeing something posted here, supposedly from a book of his, where he wrote something about having the mental image of a cartoon character fucking a fat prostitute (he was talking about perversion or something)

[Anonymous No.7090261]

Conservative but still an intellectual in his own right. It's a shame he's widely known on the internet as simply being Christopher's less famous brother. The Hitchens vs Hitchens Debate is an example of Peter at his finest.

[Anonymous No.7090389]

>>7090261
Really? He's said a bunch of times that he hated it and could barely hear what his brother was saying?

>>7090133
wut?

[Anonymous No.7090409]

well he's a christian so he definitely doesn't have anything important to say

[Anonymous No.7090410]

>>7090409
You're just fishing for le hat man pictures, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.7090424]

Is nobody in this family allowed to have a jawline?

[Anonymous No.7090444]

Saw this yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTu3gVvm_K8

I enjoy his pessimism, it's the only realistic way to be a conservative/reactionary I think, having those values in spite of knowing you'll never see them realised on any meaningful scale.

[Anonymous No.7090480]

Their lifestyles really proved who was the smarter of the two

Chris: marriage constantly ending in divorce. constantly get into trouble
satanic daredevil, spit in the saviors face
addiction to dangerous chemicals led to his death. fanbase of fedoras who hate life

Peter: married once in a loving family that spawned three beautiful children under the lord. Healthy and most importantly still living

[Anonymous No.7090489]

>>7090410
no, I'm just poisoning the dialogue to make the thread die quicker

[Anonymous No.7090512]

>statists

disgusting

[Anonymous No.7090525]

>>7090512
>non-statists

cute

[Anonymous No.7090543]

>>7090444
he is absolutely right in his pessimism. even if you aren't in agreement with his conservatism, you should be with his pessimism, even if for different reasons. the world is going to get much, much, much worse in the coming years and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.7090830]

>>7089958
Has he even written a book?
Stop posting this guy.

>>7090512
>Capitalists

Disgusting.

[Anonymous No.7091367]

>>7090830
He actually wrote a few, but I wouldn't consider them literature. More like extended versions of his usual political commentary in book form. He seems like a cool guy

[Anonymous No.7091378]

>>7090830
How can you be anti-capitalist? I honestly don't understand this. I have grapes and I want a thumbtack. What other mechanism is there but trade?

[Anonymous No.7091707]

>>7091378

>capitalism = trade
>i have never read a single book about politics or economy
>i'm unable to tie muh own shoe laces

You clown.

[Anonymous No.7091746]

>>7090512
This.

[Anonymous No.7091748]

>>7091378
b8?

[Anonymous No.7091751]

>>7090830
>The Abolition of Britain
>The Cameron Delusion

Longform British journalism in the old style, not the kind of stuff you'll agree with.

[Anonymous No.7091760]

He is a boring old man and a grandpa that has same shtick all the time moaning about the loss of Christians values , yet how typical of Christians today to bitch about what other people are doing instead of being a devout worshippers himself and devoting his life to God (church fathers anyone?)

at least Christopher Hitchens had something to say philosophically, even if t was entry level atheism and was actually an extremely competent debater.

saged & reported :^)

[Anonymous No.7091814]

Why do all the conservatards on this board seem to be here 24/7, do they have like literally no life or something lol

[Anonymous No.7091816]

Both Hitchenses are pieces of shit who deserve to die. Only difference is that one was a crypto-conservative, while the other is openly so. Sadly we only lost one of them.

[Anonymous No.7091832]

>>7089958

As far as I know, he's got some pretty ridiculous ideas about drug policy.

[Anonymous No.7091901]

>>7091814
>wanting to 'have a life' in kali yuga

[Anonymous No.7091931]

Dimwitted Christian fundamentalist, who can't get over the fact that he'll never be as famous as his brother

[Anonymous No.7092037]

>>7091816
The only way to be popular and conservative is to be crypto-conservative, peter was an absolute fluke!

>>7091832
Enforcing existing drug laws exactly? most recovered addicts say they would prefer to have been caught sooner so they didn't fuck so many lives up. Addicts lose all respect, they speak only the physical languages. The problem is balancing with those who can handle it and then go on promoting it for those who can't and whose family suffer.

>>7091931
I believe he's a crypto-athiest, one rule for me, one for others, because really it is our only hope and it's also his best taunt to stay popular thanks to the hate from his brother's fanbois.

[Anonymous No.7092042]

>>7091816
Who do you hate conservatism?

[Anonymous No.7092058]

Didn't really know about him, googled, found this article and he's spot on:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3223828/PETER-HITCHENS-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html

Seems like a smart man.

[Anonymous No.7092066]

>>7092042
It is responsible for countless injustices against weak and vulnerable groups of people

[Anonymous No.7092082]

>>7092058
>Thanks to a thousand years of uninvaded peace, we have developed astonishing levels of trust, safety and freedom.
>In the UK

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahah

[Anonymous No.7092085]

>>7092066
By conservatism, do you mean the posturing kind that's secretly merely neoliberalism or more oldschool Burkean kind?

[Anonymous No.7092090]

>>7090830
>a fucking butterfly
hidden.

[Anonymous No.7092094]

>>7092082
>le cctv meme

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7092103]

>>7090830
Reported.

[Anonymous No.7092105]

>>7092094
You can't drink in public. You can only smoke in tiny designated places. Eveybody sulks. The walls are LITERALLY shouting at you, telling you how to behave. The prime minister is a cunt.

[Anonymous No.7092129]

>>7092105
You have a twelve year old's notion of freedom. Compare Britain to the rest of the world and you'll see it's a rather good place to live trust, safety and freedomwise.

[Anonymous No.7092151]

>>7090444
the lefty cuck did actually an alright job with the interview

[Anonymous No.7092179]

>>7092037
>I believe he's a crypto-athiest, one rule for me, one for others

Then he would just be an incredible hypocrite

[Anonymous No.7092229]

>>7089958
I like him. We need more traditionalist conservatives in the world.

[Anonymous No.7092230]

>>7090512
>being a libertarian
>believing that your body is an island
>supporting open borders
>shiggy

[Anonymous No.7092236]

He's great and a good writer

Completely misunderstood by the "left" and the "right"

[Anonymous No.7092256]

>>7092230
libertarians don't support open borders

[Anonymous No.7092262]

>>7092236
I thought only his brother was an alcoholic.

[Anonymous No.7092263]

someone post that pasta about peter hitchens and the transsexual prostitute

[Anonymous No.7092269]

>>7092236
Noone is such a nice guy. He cares when nobody else does.

[Anonymous No.7092291]

A lot of his views are pretty dodgy, and some of them are straight up incorrect, but he at least has a sense of common decency. I think he's mostly a reactionary really, born from an understandable disillusionment with the left. But anyone who wants to open up a dialogue and speaks the language of Burke and Carlyle is alright in my book.

Christopher was still better though, Hitch 22 is one of the best memoirs I've ever read.

[Anonymous No.7092306]

>>7092151
Doesn't seem like a bad kid, just naive as fuck.

[Anonymous No.7092310]

>>7092129
>You have a twelve year old's notion of freedom.
>>7092105
that, plus Hitchens resents these facts. He even calls for the ban on ID cards and civil surveillance. What is your argument? He relfected that we threw away quite happily the rare privileges this country gave us.

[Anonymous No.7092330]

>>7092306
He's actually a very good writer who makes some valid points which even the anti establishment right have to agree with. Don't judge him by his media performances where he's wheeled out as the token lefty like Hitchens is wheeled out as the token conservative.

I've read both his books and while I'm modestly leftist myself, I can't stand the sort of North London Guardian liberalism that he seems to represent so I didn't really expect much. He couldn't be further from it. The Establishment and How They Get Away With It is most certainly worth a read.

[Anonymous No.7092338]

>>7092306
>>7092330
>Jones claims to reject identity politics in Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class, as he believes it has often been "an agenda that has happily co-existed with the sidelining of the working class in politics, allowing New Labour to protect its radical flank while pressing ahead with Thatcherite policies"
How can you not think he's based? Thats quite clearly exactly what happened.

[Anonymous No.7092361]

>>7092330
>>7092338
I was going purely by a few clips, don't know him otherwise.

Seems like I misjudged him, partially because he looks like a happy teenager I guess.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7092363]

>>7091378
You just described trade. The grapes and thumbtacks are real functional things, money has no value unless we play the game, which we are forced to. Seriously, is this just bait?

>>7091751
Or the kind anyone wants to talk about. w/e, forget it.

[Anonymous No.7092365]

>>7089958
Very few, haven't read anything by him.

[Anonymous No.7092366]

Very middlebrow

[Anonymous No.7092379]

>>7092361
Its a 4chan meme to hate him, I can sort of see why from his media appearances.

[Anonymous No.7092386]

>>7091760
Spoken like a child.

[Anonymous No.7092414]

>>7092386

>Verily, I am the only adult on this Asian cartoon forum

[Anonymous No.7092477]

>>7092363
Money is just the middle man between trades. How is this hard to understand....

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7092625]

>>7092477
Money is used to elevate the few and keep the rest in servitude and poverty, classes. It's a fraud, a scheme and the cause of much of the world's suffering. How is this hard to understand?

I know how hard it is to understand at first actually. I was there once myself. Now that you know the truth, go research it some more. Deprogram yourself.

[Anonymous No.7092660]

>>7092037

>most recovered addicts say they would prefer to have been caught sooner so they didn't fuck so many lives up.

The vast majority of drug users aren't addicts. That's the first problem. Further, alcohol shouldn't be illegal because of alcoholics, and fast-food shouldn't be illegal because of fatties.

Prohibition doesn't stop addicts. There seems to be no evidence to support the notion that it even reduces the amount of them (e.g., cannabis consumption rates are lower in the Netherlands than in the US, despite differing legal statuses). Prohibition causes drug misuse to be associated with stigma and legal repercussions, which may very well play into a lot of these addicts not seeking help.

But I actually think all the above points are pretty insignificant, and that the main, and irrefutable one, is that drug prohibition is a vehement and undeniable disregard for the principles of self-sovereignty and self-ownership, and that any conception of personal freedom that you can have will be sorely lacking if it does not include the right to consume what you wish and experiment with your consciousness.

[Anonymous No.7092692]

>>7092625
It's also how you get food on your plate.

[Anonymous No.7092741]

>>7091901

This made me Chuckle.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7092807]

>>7092625
>Money is used to elevate the few and keep the rest in servitude and poverty, classes
You seem to have unnecessarily inferred this.

>It's a fraud, a scheme and the cause of much of the world's suffering
Again, it seems unnecessary.

Can you give us reasons for changing our point of view?
>I know how hard it is to understand at first actually. I was there once myself. Now that you know the truth, go research it some more. Deprogram yourself.
For what reason?
How can we know that you are not lying?
How can we know there is an alternative?
For what reason should we go down that corridor?

[Anonymous No.7092847]

>itt

[Anonymous No.7092855]

>>7092625
I have grapes and you have thumbtacks. You want grapes, but I don't want thumbtacks.

[Anonymous No.7092857]

>>7092256
any real principled libertarian does. the only ones who don't are fake american "im not a republican im a libertarian independent! oh who do i vote for, the republicans of course!" libertarians.

[Anonymous No.7092865]

The right Hitchens died.

[Anonymous No.7092873]

>>7092857
I'm a principled minarchist and I do, in principle, support open borders. But in the real world, we have to work step-by-step toward long term goals. Borders have to be closed until we can remove government paternalism. If you just grab society and try to cram a revolution down its throat, millions of people die and your ideas are used by fascists to claim power and success gets further and further out of reach.

[Anonymous No.7092879]

>>7092129
>Compare Britain to the rest of the world and you'll see it's a rather good place to live trust, safety and freedomwise.

until you get arrested for making a joke on the internet that offends the wrong group of person

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7092888]

>>7092855
You support a king and class riding in with a bunch of thugs to claim all your grapes and all my tacks as his, and forcing us to use money to buy the supplies we need from each other in order to profit him and his thug class.

I support the sharing understanding way. A more mature and responsible world is what I'm asking for. Anarchism is all rule/no rule.
>>7092692
Mothers put plates of food in front of their children not for monetary profits.

[Anonymous No.7092894]

>>7092888
duuude what if listen what if dude are you listening what if we stop using money

pass the bong dude

[Anonymous No.7092898]

>>7092888
You aren't making any sense. Why would you just give someone something you worked hard to make in exchange for nothing? To make it easier for you to understand, why would a banana farmer in central latin america send bananas to me in canada? Because lolwhatagoodperson?

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7092902]

>>7092888
???
Questions unanswered means you can not answer them or...?
>She just doesn't want to answer because the question is stupid
Consider the following: the question is "stupid" because there is no answer.
The question to an unanswerable problem will always necessarily be "stupid" with heavy emphasis on the inverted commas.

[Anonymous No.7092913]

>>7092888
>Mothers put plates of food in front of their children not for monetary profits.

So what, they need money to put the food in front of their children.

[Anonymous No.7092928]

>>7092888
Plates of food they acquire through money, because children's knick-knacks and milf ass are not easy to barter items.

At least not the knick-knacks.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7092934]

>>7092894
What *if* Greece stopped using money... Hmmm

>>7092898
Would he stop growing bananas if he, and his whole community were provided for, sans money? Yeah sure, why not? He works less hours at it now anyway. In his free time he goes to a nice university. You'll get your bananas.

>>7092902
Do your work Twinshi

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7092943]

>>7092934
???
Humourous response approximately amounts to I don't know what I am talking about.
Respond in a sincere manner and if not,
I will take note and perhaps others with insight will do so as well.

[Anonymous No.7092954]

>>7092934
Wtf? Who provides for the community and why? Who is actually working in your society? Is everyone a subsistence farmer? How do they decide how much of anything to make? What incentives to selfish people have to become more efficient? How does he provide bananas to everyone in the free world that wants them?

Margins in big box retailers are often below 10%. Only luxury goods or goods with demand-side subsidies are "exploitatively priced".

[Anonymous No.7092972]

More funny (intentionally) than people give him credit for. Though I think he's an idiot when discussing anything drug related. still better than neocon stooge Christopher.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7092976]

>>7092954
>Who is actually working in your society?
Every able body and of course automation, sans all those unnecessary jobs, "sales" specifically.
Foodstuffs are obviously very necessary. Why wouldn't it go to out to other nearby or relatively nearby communities?

[Anonymous No.7092990]

>>7089958
He's a reactionary dog who literally made every decision in his life as a response to his brother who (even though he was an idiot himself) was more charistmatic than him, smarter than him and most importantly an infinitely superior writer

[Anonymous No.7093507]

>>7090119
God he can't even beat Dn Savage in a debate when he's right. what a turd. the whole panel are turds.

[Anonymous No.7093514]

ITT: Butterfly is being stupid as usual and people are falling for it

[Anonymous No.7093609]

>>7092976
Sales will always be needed to convince people labour and goods are worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.7093799]

>>7093507
Is it possible to beat someone in a debate when all they seem content to talk about is their ability to suck dick well?

[Anonymous No.7093962]

>>7090119
He was just smiling good-naturedly dude. I'm sceptical he managed to 'annihilate' him either

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094029]

>>7093609
Says a lazy NEET?

You assume everyone will stop working, nothing will get done, and we'll all starve to death.
I might expect plenty your generation and class to do this, but what of it? Die. Capitalism demands more and more cheap labor to exploit, leading us to this ridiculous overpopulation, it would be fine if the whiner section of the world would just go forage out in the woods, holed up in a shack somewhere till they die off. I wouldn't mind. It's their life.

>>7093514
In a world gone mad...

[Anonymous No.7094041]

>>7089958
I have a greater respect for his attitude and demeanour than I have for his opinions

[Anonymous No.7094148]

>>7090480

Hitch on his cancer diagnosis:
>I burned the candle at both ends and it often gave a lovely light

>Life's temporary for a reason: it gets fucking old- Doug Stanhope

[Anonymous No.7094182]

>>7090444
I don't understand his pessimism regarding the future of the United Kingdom.

>Bankrupt
UK's the 6th largest economy in the world, it's expected to grow this year

>Non-sovereign
The UK will hold a referendum regarding EU membership in 2017. It can still leave if British people want out.

>robbed of our culture and our past
No clue why he's saying this.

Does he describe his views regarding the future in more detail somewhere else?

>>7090543

>Why do you think this?

[Anonymous No.7094196]

>>7094182
*> the world is going to get much, much, much worse in the coming years and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Why do you think this?

[Anonymous No.7094207]

>>7094029
There are families on welfare that haven't had a job in 3 generations. The average family in poverty (in USA) works ~16 hours per week. Yes, if you provide for people endlessly, they get lazy. This has been common knowledge for nearly the entirety of human history. With very few exceptions, people will adapt if they need to and get lazy if they don't.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094247]

>>7094029
>I might expect plenty your generation and class to do this, but what of it? Die.
Just take note of this, posters of the literature board of 4chan.
Don't say any thing: she has made it clear how she wants to be, just take note.

[Anonymous No.7094299]

>>7092085
He almost certainly doesn't know the difference, but I imagine if he did it would be the former.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094317]

>>7094207
>There are families on welfare that haven't had a job in 3 generations.
And what game are we playing at again?
>works ~16 hours per week
>Yes, if you provide for people endlessly, they get lazy.
I don't like your standard of "lazy". Why wouldn't working 16 hours a week be enough to live on?

>>7094247
Ideally people would want to take care of their surroundings, their communities. Not many hours would be needed of them, since all worthless jobs would be eliminated. If done right the majority of people would participate. But for the malcontent who would want a return to the bad old days for whatever delusional reason, they can go live on the fringes.
I'm sure there'd be enough compassionate people trying to rehabilitate them, but in a generations time homelessness would be erased.

[Anonymous No.7094388]

>>7094317
16 hours ain't shit butterflycunt

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094414]

>>7094388
But there are enough hands in your community to allow you this free time. Your most pressing issue now is what will you do with your freedom?

[Anonymous No.7094463]

>>7094317

Your assumptions so far are based on direct exchange of goods but what about services?

Say you need defending in a court of law - the rule of law would still be a societal necessary. Why would a lawyer help you to uphold the rule of law if you have nothing to offer him that he can in turn exchange for the goods and services he needs? Who is going to foot your 'bill'? How will you gain an advocate with the necessary experience to defend you anyway? How will he have learned his craft if he has to spend his time producing goods for trade? He needs to exist in a highly sophisticated market economy that allows specialisation far beyond subsistence farming.

How many more times will people like you need to see socialism fail?

>Oh but my special snowflake type of socialism has never been tried

People like you are bloodsucking morons. But you will sit here, tell me to 'deprogramme' myself and continue in your delusion. Go ahead.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094467]

>>7094317
>for the malcontent who would want a return to the bad old days for whatever delusional reason, they can go live on the fringes.
But for this to be true, there would need to be a governing group which would enforce its non-governance,
so based on what I have gathered from you so far, this is not plausible.
The people who have different opinions would have to be censored.

>in a generations time homelessness would be erased.
It seems like an interesting idea.
I have no problem with erasing homelessness, I am for it.
The main problem would be the logistics of the government that would be around between voluntarily-governed Anarchism, which is what I presume you are referring to and representational democracy or any alternatives and whether or not that government would ever truly dissipate in to being "voluntary".

Aside from that, how would exploitation be dealt with?
How would an abstract currency not occur,
like say rare shells or rare rocks?
If it was regulated, one would need a strong government, not a "voluntary" one, which still remains overly abstract to me. And please, refrain from calling me "retarded" or some thing similar. I just wish to know if you are sincere.

I am also unaware of what strand of Anarchism you are referring to.
Also, I would like to hear your views on what you believe to be the difference between personal and private property.

One more thing: with this "dying"... if it actually became a phenomenon and was reported and people hated the government for it, would that not be regrettable?
You seem to be aware that this could occur but brush it off,
which leads me to question the sincerity of your approach.

[Anonymous No.7094478]

>>7094414

See this, you tit - because frankly, it IS the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you can sit there on your computer, attached to the web, posting your inane shit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D1gJ_GygAI

How many more times must we see socialism fail before people like you get it? Your special snowflake variety of socialism that has never been tried yet would go the same way.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094481]

>>7094467
*There would need to be a governing group, as opposed to a voluntary one or a non-governing one, depending on your strand of thought, presumably the first.

What I gather is that the only thing particularly peculiar about your idea is anti-currency, which, if I am not mistaken, could still be implemented in a representational democracy.
The rest needs Occam's razor, in my humble opinion.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094505]

>>7094463
>Your assumptions so far are based on direct exchange of goods but what about services?
Same.
>Why would a lawyer help you to uphold the rule of law
You would be allowed to defend yourself. I'm not sure what our perp has even done.
>How many more times will people like you need to see socialism fail?
In the small doses we have implemented, they work great. The corrupting agent of capitalism kind of sours them certainly.
>People like you are bloodsucking morons
It's morons like yourself that will draw the final curtain on humanity.
What We propose is a responsible mature civilization and you're so damn sure that's impossible since we've never tried it.
Do read Hobsbawm's Age of Revolution, anon. Find out what world we're living in.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094524]

>>7094505
>You would be allowed to defend yourself. I'm not sure what our perp has even done.
You can do this already, but you are very likely to lose in comparison to some one who has a lawyer, in your case presumably one who has an older brother who is one or a friend who is one.

[Anonymous No.7094539]

>>7094463
>Oh but my special snowflake type of socialism has never been tried
>Thinking that any of history's examples of poorly-managed, corrupt, despotic regimes masquerading as socialism actually represent either a tangible realisation or test of western socialist ideals
>Not recognising that greater social equality among first-world, westernised nations may be associated with myriad social benefits

[Anonymous No.7094551]

>>7094539
>Not realizing that if those are what comes of attempts to implement socialism.

You cannot make a socialist society without authoritative compulsion. It goes against human nature.

[Anonymous No.7094568]

>>7094505

You can defend yourself in most jurisdictions today - but unless you are yourself a trained advocate you are at a disadvantage. In your socialist utopia this would remain so - the reason you hire a lawyer in the first place is because you are not yourself a legal expert. If this conferred no disadvantage, everybody would defend themselves all of the time. Saying it is an option doesn't help our imaginary 'perp' avoid his jail time. As for the reason he needs a lawyer, it is irrelevant.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094578]

>>7094551

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094591]

Also, I get the impression you aren't answering me,
but concerning the supposed abolition of currency in an Anarchist Sta-.... area?
I presume you aren't referring to a worldwide revo-... XYZ.
Say currency is abolished.
The institutions which deal with them can technically remain, but there is no... "recognition" of currency?
So what? What stops the use of currency and the printing of currency by institutions that are "voluntary" and "anarchist"?
Are you picking and choosing what topics you wish to refer to?
If this is the case, I have to conclude you are insincere, a ruse master or misinformed.

[Anonymous No.7094606]

>>7094578
>lets ignore reality

Communism only sounds good in abstract thought

[Anonymous No.7094617]

>>7094591

>insincere, a ruse master or misinformed.

A socialist defined tbqh

[Anonymous No.7094648]

>>7094505
>Find out what world we're living in.


Says the conspiracy theorist socialist shitheel.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094649]

>>7094467
>But for this to be true, there would need to be a governing group which would enforce its non-governance
The community wouldn't want to share with a loafer crackpot who hoards gold like it'll go back in style.

>>7094478
>People only invent this for money not out of necessity.

>>7094568
Just saying there's a perp doesn't get us started. Here, let me do it.
A drifter capitalist kidnaps and rapes a little kid.
Result, the town and her family hunt him down and want to rip him to shreds. Cooler heads ask for a trial. DNA matches. The town decides what the punishment should be. He's sent to an island for sex offenders where he has to bunk with other scroungy old capitalists.

>>7094606
>There is only MY reality. NO TRYING ALLOWED. [God, I'm scarred now!]
Pussy.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094663]

>>7094648

[Anonymous No.7094666]

>>7094551
I mean....Do you think they started off as well meaning, philanthropic individuals who just suddenly became corrupted via the process of having to organise the redistribution of incomes? Or are you actually asserting that any legitimate regime would be physically incapable of implementing socialist policies?

[Anonymous No.7094680]

>>7094029
We wouldn't die, but we'd all be more depressed. By we I mine westerners like yourself and I. To the proles of the third world there's no distinction between a NEET and a western worker, both are beyond complacent.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094683]

>>7094649
Why do you only respond to one sentence which I altered in a later post?
I asked many questions which would help elucidate your point of view to me.
>The community wouldn't want to share with a loafer crackpot who hoards gold like it'll go back in style.
How could you know this?
If they do now, there is no reason to supposed that will change with a change of jargon,
nor with the abolition of the recognition of currency.

[Anonymous No.7094690]

This entire thread

>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.7094693]

>>7094666

Why did any of them or at least their core turn to socialism in the first place? Because it was an ideal to hold up and try, an alternative, a hope - classic case, Soviet Russia. The Bolsheviks and Mensheviks DID start as well meaning individuals. But how do you implement socialism? It has to be top down, especially in a society covering so vast an area and one unused to anything other than autocracy. But power corrupts.

But I am also asserting that any legitime regime would find it impossible to implement the socialist ideal - the socialist ideal is literally impossible to achieve. For a start there wouldn't be a government to impose or implement it.

[Anonymous No.7094699]

>>7094649

>The community wouldn't want to share with a loafer crackpot who hoards gold like it'll go back in style.

So the community isn't out of the goodness of its heart going to help and provide for him or those like him because by refusing to integrate he provides them with no INCENTIVE.

Sounds like the beginnings of class capitalism to me.

[Anonymous No.7094700]

>actual lolbertarian capitalists and conservatives on /lit/

God this board has gone too shit

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094702]

>>7094683
*"suppose", not "supposed".

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094706]

>>7094700
Consider arguing, not pointing.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094713]

>>7094700
Also, I never claimed to be libertarian or conservative in this thread.

[Anonymous No.7094714]

>>7094706
What, arguing the same "Socialism isn't human nature" and "lol sociology/anthropology" shitposting over and over again?

Its been long established on /lit/ that rightfags have nothing but fallacies and reaction. There is a reason rightfags have /pol/ and people actually interested in discussion have /lit/,

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094745]

>>7094714
>What, arguing the same "Socialism isn't human nature" and "lol sociology/anthropology" shitposting over and over again?
Or alternatively making an original point that makes sense.

>Its been long established on /lit/ that rightfags have nothing but fallacies and reaction
Again, you can still have modicums of "left wing" thought in a representational democracy which is capitalistic, namely through redistribution of wealth and property, and (oxford comma) regulations.
Aside from that, the latter half of the sentence can not be proven, is a personal opinion.

>There is a reason rightfags have /pol/ and people actually interested in discussion have /lit/
My impression is that /pol/ has extremely radical views on race and other topics, which have nothing to do with questioning Anarchism or radical left wing ideologies.
I get the impression that you know this, but choose to say otherwise none the less as a joke,
for ideological reasons or because you were simply seized by the afflatus.
Another reason could be that to initiate yourself in to a group of intellectuals,
you feel the need to take upon yourself their prejudices and axioms,
in the same way in the past being a christian would initiate some one in to an intellectual circle.

I refuse to participate in a community where there is only one answer and every thing else is spat upon.

[Anonymous No.7094748]

>>7094714

Long established? So you want to shut down any debate with those who hold opinions and beliefs different to yours because of your fallacious assumption that they can add nothing to a debate? That's okay though because you're on lit and enjoy discussion. Nice.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094754]

>>7094699
I'm mulling over the militantly reticent capitalist who's hire thugs have giving up trying to support his gated community of capitalism and gone native.
I have no idea how it could go down, I kind of doubt we have the environmental time and resource materials to pull out of an extinction event, but it *could* produce some of the more callous situations I presented. A season in the wilderness would break some and they'd come back and live like the rest.

>Sounds like the beginnings of class capitalism to me.
Hermit don't reproduce. These scenarios are placed at the dawn of such an age. –I personally don't think it could happen so suddenly. They'd probably be many subtle hues. More socialism at first, pockets of anarchism spreading over multiple generations. Again, I doubt we have time. Capitalism has already killed us. Strangled us.

Saturday was real nice weather here. Now it's over 100º

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094790]

>>7094754
I can not ask you,
so I will just suggest how you could metamorphose your decorum in future threads:
When you reply to someone's post in a civilised manner and the person responds with another question in a similar manner,
it would be polite to continue the discussion in that manner, provided you have time, which I gather you do considering you responded to the other person.

If it is blatantly obvious that you are right and that the other is wrong, why not be polite nonetheless and attempt to initiate them?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094793]

>>7094745
>I refuse to participate in a community where there is only one answer and every thing else is spat upon.
In my idealistic future people would be more amicably split on a whole host of topics. The last pockets of theism would urge some to join their various sects, the communists would extol the virtues of collectivism, the Stirnerists would traipse around the world living their solitary lives. The Greenies would as ever be all about topsoil and saving animal species, while the scientists would be pushing the boundaries into space and trans-humanism.
Bands of young philosophy students roaming the countryside.
It would be fun.

[Anonymous No.7094796]

>>7094663
Your escapist fantasy is on the level of the adolescent who wants to run off into star trek or middle earth, you just get your inspiration from different books (they can't have greater literary merit if they have greater political merit).

Class, violence, mutual hatred and those other "evils" exist outside the system, whatever it's called, however it's balanced, it returns to them.

Humanity has transformed uncountable gardens of Edan in its image. Little dream communities like your own.

My advice would be to keep a clear head and cling to whatever realistic prospect of safety is available.

The technology needed to save us from ourselves will always be just out reach, while all one needs to embrace a return to the primitive is a sharp stone.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094821]

>>7094793
I was referring to the post by another anonymous poster,
but at least you are responding.
I think you have a brilliant imagination (and I do not mean that maliciously), ruse master or not,
but I do not see how it relates to Anarchism,
which from what I have gathered does not lead to what you have described.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094840]

>>7094790
So desperate for my time.
Truth be told, there are answers to your questions by far more learned and eloquent writers. I really ought to get back to my reading.

>>7094796
>Your escapist fantasy is on the level of the adolescent who wants...
...the world to grow up and be nice. Like Star Trek, a beautiful dream.
>Class, violence, mutual hatred...
If we all figured it out and decided to eliminate the use of money, much of the worlds evils would melt away. IF.
You're only scared because of some of the preconceived notions you've been brought up with about "human nature". So scared of the solution that you can't see the actually scary man-made catastrophe headed our way. Weirdo.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.7094847]

>>7094821
>which from what I have gathered does not lead to what you have described.
You'd be wrong.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7094854]

>>7094840
>Truth be told, there are answers to your questions by far more learned and eloquent writers
Then why don't you repeat their opinions to me?
If you do not understand their opinions, then why presume they have the answer if you do not know they have the answer? Is that not blind faith?
I just need to read more?
How could you know how much I have read?
Do you expect me to have read everything?
Or are you a ruse master?
Are you blinded by my (un)orthodoxy?
My uninitiated opinions?

>>7094847
You're a fun ruse master.
I like that. It lessens the Ennui.

[Anonymous No.7094891]

You can't agree with Peter unless you're Christian. The whole of his political thought stems from his religious views. He's a Christian utopian. He has a die-hard faith that Christian values are the only worthwhile ones—and that's all it is, a faith.

[Anonymous No.7094896]

>>7094891
would you prefer islamic values?

[Anonymous No.7094929]

>>7094896
Oh pardon me, I didn't realise those were the only options.

[Anonymous No.7094936]

>>7094929
well, now you do

[Anonymous No.7094961]

>>7094840
It's not an artificial sense of human nature, the modern human's ways predate money and other trappings of civilization. We are mortal and desperate to live, the definition of catastrophe. There is no directing the mob, there is no slowing it's momentum, it just gets louder and bigger. Then pop! You die it dies, what's the difference?

As >>7094891 says, utopianism is the condition of the right too, who expect it after death, leftists hate this because it reminds them how exceptional and modern the idea of worldly utopia is. When I look at history it's an idea used to oppress or channel the power of the mob, just like religion, only this time the people advocating it have picked up the sophistry of advertisers to promise more sooner and at a lower cost.

[Anonymous No.7095032]

>>7094182
>UK's the 6th largest economy in the world, it's expected to grow this year
Like a lot of EU country's the UK is incredibly indebted and the population is burdened with loans to maintain a standard of living that people were able to achieve through work a few generations ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

>robbed of our culture and our past
>No clue why he's saying this.
Politically correct, post-colonial and anti-European ideals portraying traditional cultures as exploitative and patriarchal, while the country increasingly fills up with Muslims whose culture is never criticized in this way, and is in fact encouraged.

[Anonymous No.7095043]

>>7095032
>Politically correct, post-colonial and anti-European ideals portraying traditional cultures as exploitative and patriarchal, while the country increasingly fills up with Muslims whose culture is never criticized in this way, and is in fact encouraged.
What planet do you live on?

[Anonymous No.7095079]

>>7095043
Planet Sweden. Where "normkritik" is the order of the day in the schools, media and culture, immigration remains high and radical islamism is spreading in the suburbs.

[Anonymous No.7095133]

>>7095079
I don't know what "normkritik" is. I don't know what you mean by radical islamism spreading in suburbs, and the rest of your just assuming and think it obvious that immigration is bad. I'm not surprised though; typical reactionary paranoia.

[Anonymous No.7095168]

>>7095032
>while the country increasingly fills up with Muslims whose culture is never criticized in this way

I've always wondered what makes people like you so delusional.

[Anonymous No.7095176]

>>7095133
Normkritik - criticism of norms. In Europe the suburbs outside of the major cities are ghettos. The demographics of these ghettos are mostly muslim. They are also where recruitment for terrorist organizations occur.
http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-recruiting-increasingly-young-europeans-about-4000-joined-islamic-state-syria-eu-1972462

To have grown up in a country that didn't have terrorist recruitment, and now live in one where a single city (Gothenburg) has more ISIS recruitments than the entirety of the US is concerning. And as more and more people enter the country from these countries the trend is unlikely to reverse itself. This is why Europeans are concerned about their culture.

[Anonymous No.7095207]

>>7095168
What Americans don't realize is that there are various nebulous hate speech laws in Europe forbidding Islamophobia. Meaning that one must display a higher degree of tact when towards practitioners of the religion, and the religious customs themselves or risk fines and imprisonment. So while the religion and culture of Islam receives protection from criticism up to a certain degree, other groups do not.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-labour-will-toughen-hate-crimes-legislation-surrounding-islamophobia-10203918.html

Meanwhile there is a tendency to attack the native culture, such as this article blaming African homophobia on Western colonialism.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being-gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity?CMP=fb_gu

And this is what Hitchens is getting at when he says the Brits are not permitted a culture or past.

[Anonymous No.7095214]

>>7095176
http://www.thelocal.se/20090121/17058

>While it’s widely known that a wave of liberal thinking about sex and pornography swept across Sweden in the 1960s, fewer people are aware that it led to the legalization of child pornography.

>The government at the time initiated a review of freedom of speech laws in 1965, looking closely at provisions governing the portrayal of children.

>In 1971, a new law was passed which made it legal to buy, sell, and possess child, animal, and violent pornography in Sweden.

>In the wake of the relaxed restrictions, a number of pornographic magazines were produced with names like Teenangels, Bambino and Lolita, each sending obligatory issues for archiving at the National Library.

>According to the Swedish Association for Sexuality Education (RFSU), Swedish attitudes towards child pornography were extremely liberal at the time.

>Citing “the child’s right to sexuality”, the Swedish Federation for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights (Riksförbundet för sexuellt likaberättigande – RFSL) launched a 'paedophile working group' to lobby for lighter sentences for sex crimes against minors and for a lower age of consent.

RFSL’s efforts paid off in 1976, when a government commission issued a proposal including both suggestions, as well as the decriminalization of incest.

>The bill never became law, however, and Sweden eventually recriminalized child pornography in 1980, and RFSL switched positions on the matter.

>By then, however, the archive of child pornography at the National Library had continued to expand and remained largely accessible to the public until Bart brought the issue to the library’s attention.

Your country was a degenerate pile of shit way before the sandniggers showed up.

[Anonymous No.7095222]

http://www.thelocal.se/20090121/17058

>While it’s widely known that a wave of liberal thinking about sex and pornography swept across Sweden in the 1960s, fewer people are aware that it led to the legalization of child pornography.

>The government at the time initiated a review of freedom of speech laws in 1965, looking closely at provisions governing the portrayal of children.

>In 1971, a new law was passed which made it legal to buy, sell, and possess child, animal, and violent pornography in Sweden.

>In the wake of the relaxed restrictions, a number of pornographic magazines were produced with names like Teenangels, Bambino and Lolita, each sending obligatory issues for archiving at the National Library.

>According to the Swedish Association for Sexuality Education (RFSU), Swedish attitudes towards child pornography were extremely liberal at the time.

>Citing “the child’s right to sexuality”, the Swedish Federation for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights (Riksförbundet för sexuellt likaberättigande – RFSL) launched a 'paedophile working group' to lobby for lighter sentences for sex crimes against minors and for a lower age of consent.

>RFSL’s efforts paid off in 1976, when a government commission issued a proposal including both suggestions, as well as the decriminalization of incest.

>The bill never became law, however, and Sweden eventually recriminalized child pornography in 1980, and RFSL switched positions on the matter.

>By then, however, the archive of child pornography at the National Library had continued to expand and remained largely accessible to the public until Bart brought the issue to the library’s attention.

Your country was a degenerate pile of shit way before the sandniggers showed up.

[twinshia !b2E8KBMQGk No.7095241]

No longer watching this thread,
in case I get responses.

[Anonymous No.7095640]

>>7090119
I don't see how he can get out of bed in the morning. I know I couldn't.

[Anonymous No.7095692]

>>7093799
it's funny that he can rely on what is essentially just the soft shock of suggesting homoeroticism in public accompanied by the baited measurement of an 'homophobic' reaction from his victim.

[Anonymous No.7096544]

>>7095222
>Is modern utopia
>il/lit/erates claim it's degenerate

[Anonymous No.7096584]

>>7090035
There can be only one Hitchlender

[Anonymous No.7096616]

[Anonymous No.7096777]

He's miserable and a bad person, and if you can't see this I've got news for you...

[Anonymous No.7096811]

>>7092105
You can drink in public, and the only freedom restricted here is alcoholics and rough sleepers drinking super strength lager. You can drink in parks, on the beach etc. and nobody will stop you. You'd only get stopped in a town centre high street.

You can smoke while walking down the road - just not indoors in public places. I have mixed opinions on this as I turned 18 a couple years after the ban. I can't say I'd like to go to a smoke filled pub very much though.

[Anonymous No.7096921]

>there are people on /lit/ now that don't think Peter was the best Hitchens

[Anonymous No.7098526]

great man