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/lit/ - Literature

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7073660 No.7073660 [Reply] [Original]

Has man enslaved himself?

>> No.7073706

We are all slaves to time.

>> No.7073715

>>7073660
Yes
So often and thoroughly in fact, some believe this is the natural way of things. They're fools suffering Stockholm syndrome though.

>> No.7073724

>>7073715

It may not be the 'natural way' (whatever that means), but its a permutation of how civilizations congregate that works well enough to be stable. To allow a world of human agents to act independently but in harmony would require a huge paradigm shift that would not have worked in our leaner times.

>> No.7073738

If you mean limiting our freedom and stagnating our progress to a fuller reality where there is no alienation YES. I think Capitalism is one of those loophole traps that is hard to escape from

>> No.7073759

Only in order to be free.

>> No.7073762

>>7073660
men enslave other men. Man cannot tame himself, however. So sayeth lords Darwin and Huxley : ^)

>> No.7073765

define "man," "enslaved," "himself," and "has."

>> No.7073771

He is enslaved to sin, which is self-inherent and self-perpetuating

>> No.7073805
File: 72 KB, 650x366, Mice_on_farm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7073805

>>7073660
>Many [female mice] were unable to carry pregnancy to full term or to survive delivery of their litters if they did. An even greater number, after successfully giving birth, fell short in their maternal functions. Among the males the behavior disturbances ranged from sexual deviation to cannibalism and from frenetic overactivity to a pathological withdrawal from which individuals would emerge to eat, drink and move about only when other members of the community were asleep. The social organization of the animals showed equal disruption. [...]


yep. and its worse than its ever been. modern Liberal democracy is probably the most oppressive and insidious totalitarian system ever devised. The modern man is completely under control yet he believes he is free, it is this delusion which keeps him docile and compliant. But the cracks are beginning to show. in 1945, 2% of the american population was classified as mentally ill (a classification which serves as a means of social control, and only means the labeled individual is inconvenient to the system) Now the figure is over 50%.
Post-Industrial society is completely pathological. The internet has exacerbated the problem and made it evident (just look at the average poster in this website, or the average tumblr/reddit/etc. user, are they in any way equiped to function in society?). Or just look outside people are barely having children, birthrates are quickly falling below replacement level, starting in the most industrialised countries. The system is inevitably going to crash due to an ageing population

I can understand the appeal of something like the Islamic State, and why it seems like a more reasonable and ultimately more humane and sustainable alternative to liberal democratic hegemony.

>> No.7073860

In what way?

Why are /lit/ filled with anti-capitalists, noble savages and other kind of technophobes?

You book nerds wouldn't last a day in the wild.

>> No.7073862

Yes in a way, corporate influence is too big. We are slaves to consumerism and materialism.

>> No.7073863

>>7073862
As opposed to kings and gods and country?

What's so fucking bad about people spending money on what they like (i.e. consumerist) anyway?

>> No.7073868

>>7073805
The mice thing is really interesting. What's the context of the experiment?

>> No.7073872

>>7073868
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM

>> No.7073873

>>7073863

People slave away in jobs their whole lives to buy things they are told too buy. More often than not they don't like or need what they are told too buy.

>> No.7073877

>>7073660
we want to be slaves

a few great men want to be kings

>> No.7073878

>>7073873
I do not understand buying things you don't like and need but f that's what they want and they can afford it, what's the problem?

That's certainly a better life than slaving yourself just to motherfucking survive i.e. pre-modern times.

>> No.7073882

>>7073877
Kings are just slaves to the populace.

>> No.7073886

WE ARE ALL WAGE SLAVES

>> No.7073892 [DELETED] 
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7073892

>>7073805
>humans must reproduce at all cost
>this is not slavery you guys, to continue the species inside the human rights is wonderful

can you be more woman than this ?

>> No.7073910
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7073910

>>7073886
>2015
>not owning enough real estate to make a six figure passive income for life
I sure hope you guys don't do this.

>> No.7073953

>>7073910
>Living off of others work
I'd feel guilty really.

>> No.7073955
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7073955

>>7073953
>off of

>> No.7073989

>>7073953
>being this determined to be a slave
It's like how you can imprison Congolese by sitting a gun in a chair outside their unlocked cell and walking away.

>> No.7074005

>>7073660
slow down there, Diogenes

>> No.7074013

>>7073989
No, I think you misunderstand. You're either a slave to the system, a prison guard/middle management type, or a master of the slaves, but it's all a part of the same filthy system.

>> No.7074016

>>7073955
Fuck off. Grammer isn't important.

>> No.7074029
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7074029

>>7074016

>> No.7074036

>>7074029
Read Orwell you buffoon.

>> No.7074039

>>7074013
It's a cruel world, but it's home.

>> No.7074043

>>7074016
Hush https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWY_wapzhrc

>> No.7074046

>>7074039
Not if we allow it to continue like this.


Stockholm syndrome.

>> No.7074085

>>7073660
Space Age ended and we have a meme age with selfies and software startups that is akin to the stock trade fiasco of the 80s except exponential with crowdfunding channels

>> No.7074090
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7074090

>>7074046
>all my needs are met with minimal labor
>I can travel the world freely
>I can own and manufacture anything I please short of a nuclear arsenal
>I am a prisoner/slave
Somebody having more than me when I already enjoy things king Solomon couldn't dream of doesn't really rankle badly enough to be worth getting upset about, tbh. The joy in my life comes from family, outdoor recreation and creative pursuits. I know how revolutions occur but if I'm not being oppressed the only reason to start one would be for funsies and that's not my thing. If you live in a global city I understand your frustration, but I don't share it.

>> No.7074094

>>7073862
>mah consumerism
Fedoracore anthem since the 90s

>> No.7074104

>>7074090
Says the prole/petit-bougie at the center of the empire.
I'd like to live more comfortably, sure, but I know what's going on.

>>7074094
. . .

I want /biz/ to go.

>> No.7074107

>>7074104
>I know what's going on
Yeah that shady arrangement where farmers have the choice to buy my land or rent it and choose by and large to rent it. Or that totally fucked up thing I do where I periodically hire people to cut some trees and sell them at the going rate for their labor. Really sneaky shit you've figured out there.

Not everyone with property is le happy merchant or George Babitt, and plenty of people doing the same thing I do harbor ill will towards towards the "real masters" because their interest don't align at all.

>> No.7074112

>>7074104
Even Fight Club had it end with going against the banks

The whole point of the charade is that people rest on their electronic or fashion laurels only because they want to reap the rewards of life but feel like there's no way to earn it other than through artificial means

So it's people and the breakdown of families and subsequently, the state, not consumerism. Why do you think you can't go online for a single damn day without some sort of Right wing or Social Juice bias infecting everything? The internet and its anonymous, instantenous connection, and feedback gives people a fight and purpose

Fight. Club. And you people will make a hundred threads saying Palahniuk is a hack.

>> No.7074118

>>7074107
In his defence, or rather, to play devil's advocate, he didn't say owning property was the problem, it's the fact that you have the option to do so.

Which means that someone in a much better place than you can buy all of YOUR property, or services, etc. A infinite method of ownership of finite resources. That is how feudalism turned into aristocracy.

>> No.7074176

>>7074118
How is that fucking bad?

Better he buys my shit than he comes, kills me and takes my shit.

>> No.7074180

>>7074013
I enjoy the system.

It fucking works, in the same way a machine is dirty and is lubed by grease but it runs and is productive.

>> No.7074234

>>7073660
we're being slaved by the technology read Ellul and Kaczynski

read them


please

>> No.7074245

>>7073660
Well, if we don't do it no one will.

>> No.7074967

>>7074107
Owning land is a spook. /lit/ goes on and on about their mortality, but why don't you acknowledge the fact we're only borrowing the land and all of our time here? The incentive for growing food is that we're hungry and we need it. You of course go right to the spooky terms of "selling" "rates of labour" and "owning"

>>7074176
>Stockholm syndrome

>>7074180
It's unsustainable. We're dying. We need to make a change but it may already be too late.
>I enjoy the system
Again; says the bougie at the center of the empire.

>> No.7075809

>>7073660
read TBK

>> No.7075841

>>7074967
>We're dying
more people would die and suffer needlessly if you had your fantasized revolution.

You should try to transcend and not worry so much about politics butters, you get so caught up in how you want things to be you think anyone who appreciates life for what it is has Stockholm syndrome

>> No.7075853

>>7073660
>>7073706
WOAH DUDE THAT'S LIKE DEEP AS SHIT MAN HERE HIT THIS BLUNT BRO LMAO

>> No.7077327
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7077327

>>7075841
You assume too much. I'm not a militant, I'd prefer a peaceful transition. It's those who stand to be leveled to mere middle class and share who will cause the bloodshed, much the way they do now.

I think I have transcended it, I lay the weight of the world on my head and it doesn't trouble me, they way it must have Epicurus. I suppose that's because I haven't any real power and I'm just fueling my joys in knowledge for it's own sake.
Also, I've transcended not only my own personal existential crisis but my species'. My impending death may actually come at the same time as everyone else's. I'm not happy about it but it doesn't make me lose sleep.

I'm glad you can appreciate life, anon. Seriously. But cooperating in this sick game isn't healthy for anyone. It is the root of most of humanities problems.

>> No.7077343
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7077343

>>7077327
I thought you were leaving. Summer's over, you know

>> No.7077348

>*him*self
THE PATRIARCHY STRIKES AGAIN

>> No.7077358

I think man is enslaved by his own mind and only enlightenment and presence can set him free.

Physically I don't think we're enslaved at all. You can go to texas and fuck a cactus, if that's not freedom then idk what is.

>> No.7077364

>>7074234
There will be a day when Kaczynski will be held in high regard
May it come soon

>> No.7077365

>>7077358
>Physically I don't think we're enslaved at all.
You joking or just not bright?

>> No.7077392

"The state as a product of anarchists - In lands where people are restrained and contained there are nevertheless still plenty of backsliding, unrestrained and uncontained persons: at the moment they are congregating in the socialist camps more than anywhere else. Should it come to pass that they one day hand down the laws, then you can bet they will place themselves in iron chains and exert frightful discipline - they know themselves! And they will endure these laws, conscious that they alone have issued them - the feeling of power, and of this power, is too new and delightful for them not to suffer everything on its account." - Nietzsche (Dawn 184)
What did Nietzsche mean by this?

>> No.7077400

>>7077348

>I wanna be enslaved too!

>> No.7077791

>>7077392
He meant that dank memes lose their dankness when normies post them on twitter

Truly the first robot :^)

>> No.7078931

>>7077364
Unfortunately, I doubt that most people will appreciate his writings until civilization undergoes the last stage of collapse sometime next century. Here's hoping that something larger than a housecat will be able to survive through the bottleneck of the ongoing mass extinction.

>> No.7078946

>>7077365
He's domesticated is what.

>> No.7078974

>>7077392
Nietzsche's engagement with socialism was so shitty because he had only ever read Duhring.

>> No.7079144

>>7078946
Checks out. ;^)

>> No.7079360

>>7073872
So planned societies with controlled economies are the necessary next step in human civilization?

>> No.7079368

>>7073910
>implying that doesn't make you worst kind of slave, the one that thinks they have control over themselves
Being an overseer is not the same as being free. To put it another way, being more-free than others is not the same as having freedom.

>> No.7079391

>>7079368
You seem to be saying that one is necessarily the slave of anyone more powerful than oneself. That's like saying Bill Gates is broke because Carlos Slim has more money.

>> No.7079405

YALL NIGGAS CAN'T CONTROL ME

>> No.7079533

>>7079391
No, it means what was said. Having a relatively increased amount of freedom than someone else does not mean you are essentially free. This is true in the sense that one is still subject to some ruling authority as well as to capital itself.

>> No.7079603

>>7079533
Silly me, thinking we were sticking to the thread topic of enslavememt vs freedom (in the "not a slave" sense, not absolute sort).

>> No.7079626

I hate philosophy-bait.

To enslave is to take control.
If we control our lives we are enslaved to our own ideals.

Whether that fucking matters or not is really up to the person you ask; therefore, it's purely subjective in answer.
I would not be wrong no matter what the hell I answered.

The non-subjective answer would not be able to be made unless agreed upon by our fellow man, therefore it is non-objective.
The question, if man has indeed enslaved himself, becomes a null-hypothesis.

The non-subjective answer would always come out as a positive for proving the previous statement: "to enslave is to take control". We have manipulated, controlled, the outcome of the query.

We are slaves no matter how the question is answered. The question is rhetorical, I fucking hate philosophy-bait.

>> No.7079651

>>7079626
It is preferable to choose one's master, than to have no choice.

And when one becomes dissatisfied with his keeper, then it is his perogative to rise up and kill them.

>> No.7079691

>>7073660
The essence of slavery is to surrender control.

over time humans have sacrificed freedom for control. I.E. you can't rape and pillage any more, but you have much more control of what happens in your life now.

So, no.

>> No.7079721

>>7079691
I'd rather be raping and pillaging, tbh.

All the media I consume is violence oriented, my immediate reaction to a conflict that refuses to be solved with words is horrible retribution, and I sincerely believe that some men can only atone for their crimes through death, which handily protects others from further harm by them.
In addition, if I find myself unable to exact revenge due to beuraucratic or practical constraints, I fixate on it, which makes me ill.

By most modern schema I would be considered a vicious and unstable lunatic, but I believe that I was simply born too late.

Different people thrive in different environments, and whilst stability and control are favourable to some, I feel stifled and ineffectual under their yoke.

The question is, do I not have a right to pursue happiness, health and satisfaction, because of my proclivities?

>> No.7079800

>>7079721
Your rights end whereas my rights begin.

Your insane blood lust can be satiated. join the marine corps. You have no logical reason no to.

I think once you start training in taking a life, you'll understand the value of one.