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/lit/ - Literature

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7059740 No.7059740 [Reply] [Original]

If Finnegans Wake is the "final boss" of literature, what or who is the "final boss" of philosophy?

>> No.7059744

>>7059740
Modernism was a troll. HAND.

>> No.7059759

When you've made it through all the major philosophers, you revisit Plato and then, maybe, just maybe, you'll finally realize what he was ACTUALLY saying. Then you see that he is the final boss, both the alpha and the omega.

>> No.7059762

>>7059740
Final boss is such a dated concept, 'final boss' usually means finding the extra little details you missed in an open world or expanding the existing world with DLCs.

>> No.7059764

Can we please stop treating obliqueness as a hallmark of "real literature"?

>> No.7059767
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7059767

Easy

>> No.7059768

Who are you quoting?

>> No.7059769
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7059769

Yes it is

>> No.7059771

>>7059768
Meant to quote
>>7059764

>> No.7059773
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7059773

Do you even need to ask?

>> No.7059782

>>7059740

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.co.uk%2F2013%2F10%2F15%2Freith-lectures-guide-moments-grayson-perry_n_4099920.html&psig=AFQjCNHeUDWvV0bJaLEjfgMHnMHRsqtBEQ&ust=1441217238588727

>> No.7059791

>>7059759
would you share the direction one should think at when revisiting Plato, in order to understand him like you say? I'm almost done with the major ones, and you got me interested.

>> No.7059793

Jesus Christ is the final boss of philosophy.

>> No.7060073
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7060073

You are the final boss.
Explore your dreams and learn lucid dreaming.

>> No.7060087

>>7059740
Nah Stoner is the final boss of literature.

Feels > "Muh Irish prose"

>> No.7060167

>>7059740
what's a 'final boss', OP/Fag ?

>> No.7060199

Heidegger

>> No.7060210

I wouldn't know I would never lower myself to playing "vidya"

>> No.7060213

Later Wittgenstein, as opposed to early Wittgenstein.

>> No.7060226

Hegel's Science of Logic

>> No.7060227

Spinoza

>> No.7060238

>>7059740
Hegel

>> No.7060273

>>7060238
>>7060226
>>7059773

Reminds me of this quotation, which I've seen attributed to Foucault but apparently comes from Rorty:

"Philosophers are doomed to find Hegel waiting patiently at the end of whatever road we travel."

>> No.7060305

>>7059773
>>7060238
>>7060226
>>7060273
It's true Hegel is the final boss. If you try to read him without already being experienced in philosophy you won't understand anything, but if you do have the background and read carefully, he answers pretty much every question you could ask.

>> No.7060354

Heraclitus. Heidegger was aware of this.

>> No.7060377

>>7060305
Could Hegel explain Finnegan's Wake

>> No.7060380

>>7059771
>>7059768
Lol I thought you were being funny by purposefully misquoting

>> No.7060389

>>7060377
Yes

>> No.7060425

Plato, Aristotle, Kant, and Hegel.

If you've tried to read those then you know you've had to read numerous other literature and philosophy. And if you've read them completely then you probably completely understand what your philosophy should be. Yes, Hegel seems to be the final boss.

>> No.7060428

You say Dickens, I say Shakespeare

You say Hemmingway, I say Dante

You say Austen, I say Homer

You say Pynchon, I say Keats

You say Camus, I say T.S. Eliot.

95% of /lit/posters these days read same crappy prose authors over and over again. If you're one of the 5% who still reads real patrician verse, thumb this up, then copy & paste it to at least five other threads. Don't let the spirit of poetry die!

>> No.7060446

Vico (w/ The New Science)

>> No.7060451

Nietzsche

>> No.7060643

your self

>> No.7060654

>>7059740
Jaden Smith

>> No.7060666

>>7060305
>he answers pretty much every question you could ask.

Incorrectly, but with gusto

>> No.7060683

>>7060666
fuck of santa

>> No.7060707

>>7060643
...profound tbh

>> No.7060727

>>7059791
He's being a fuck but here anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss#Strauss_on_reading
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/strauss-leo/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss#Strauss.27s_Interpretation_of_Plato.27s_Republic

>> No.7060757

>>7060087
>entry-levelling this hard

>> No.7060786

probably turning 13 and growing out of the idea of using video games as a metaphor for anything about real life

>> No.7060802

Kierkegaard or Hegel

>>7059767
>philosophy
inb4 that one essay

>> No.7060890

>>7060238
This

>> No.7060938
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7060938

>>7059740

It is possible that I am mis-remembering the anecdote, but a philosophy professor of mine once claimed that the three most difficult philosophy books are Critique of Pure Reason, something else, and then this two-volume fucker from Habermas (Vol.1 shown). I actually did flip through a copy once as an undergrad, read the first page, and realized for my part that I was totally lost (I was not familiar with Hegel at the time), whom Habermas immediately name-drops). Further flipping seemed to bear this out.

If Finnegan's Wake is supposed to require familiarity with multiple languages to get all the puns, then this thing is supposed to require a big chunk of philosophy up to that point.

>> No.7060954
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7060954

>>7060938

Having actually read through the thread a bit now, I am a bit pleased at the conceit of having successfully one-upped Muh Hegel, which much of the thread seems to be coalescing around.

>> No.7060964

>>7059793
this

>> No.7060965

>>7060377
Bloom once said "if aesthetic merit were ever again to center the canon Finnegans Wake would be as close as our chaos could come to the heights of Shakespeare and Dante."

Maybe it could be absolute chaos to Hegel

Also he would just call it a zeitgeist, the spirit of its time which was Modernism

>> No.7060981

Derrida

>> No.7061034

>>7060213
This is a pretty plausible answer, methinks. Wittgenstein is certainly the most convincing of the quietists, who fashion themselves as the "final position."

>> No.7061035

>>7059740
Wittgenstein, nigger fixed philosophy

>> No.7061385

deleuze and guatarri

>> No.7061409

>>7059773
>>7060226
>>7060238
>>7060273
>>7060305
>>7060425
>>7060802
>>7060890
These are objectively correct
Hegel is the answer, the rest is a warmup

>> No.7061412

>>7059740
Plato is the first and final boss of philosophy, tbh.

>> No.7061422

Frankfurters are the secret boss

>> No.7061430

>>7060727
This

>> No.7061440
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7061440

Mao. Obviously.

>> No.7061443

>>7061409
Now I understand why my history professor kept trying to dissuade me from interpreting his master slave dialectic. I would not drop it though, I based my final paper on it. .

>> No.7061466
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7061466

The final boss in any good game is always either the first boss but with a massive power up or your companion who turns on you and betrays you at the final moment.

So it's either the greeks or yourself when you stop relying on literature and explore through your own eyes.

>> No.7061520

>>7059773
Hegel, with second boss phase summons Heidegger

>> No.7061531

>>7061466

I like this answer, as it conforms with a large number of Nintendo games that I enjoy, so it has a pleasing confirmation bias to me.

In the original Final Fantasy game, the first boss "Garland" is revealed to be the final boss, Chaos. In Super Metroid, there is a brief skirmish with Ridley at the beginning and although Ridley is not the final boss here, he is arguably the most difficult battle in the game.

>> No.7061538

>>7061466
are those crab sticks? or what?

>> No.7061586
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7061586

>>7059740
/thread

>> No.7061751 [DELETED] 
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7061751

>jerking off to superstructures
"Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices." Ecclesiastes 7:29

>> No.7061780

>>7060938
>>7060954
>that the three most difficult philosophy books are Critique of Pure Reason,...

Boy, is that starting badly. CPR is not easy but claiming it's more difficult than anything by Hegel, Husserl, the so-called post-modernists or Ancient Greek philosophy (which due to the specifities of Ancient Greek can be confusing as fuck) ? Unless the "something else" is a collecting of 10+ difficult books I don't see how that's possible.

But perhaps as you say you're misremembering.

>> No.7061791

Stirner easily, he disproves all of philosophy other than his own.

>> No.7061809

>>7061586
as in, it's not cogent or worthwhile, just like FW? sure.

The Tractatus and blue notebooks taken together are the closest thing to a last word philosophy will ever see

>> No.7061823

>>7060451
This. Surprised no one else said it.

>> No.7062061

>>7061531
Who is the Ruby Weapon of Philosophy?

>> No.7062153
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7062153

>/lit/ thinks the final boss is necessarily the hardest
figures

>> No.7062357

Obviously Kant

>> No.7062373

>>7061586
Max Stirner fucked Hegel forever though

>> No.7062385

>>7059773
even if you're a positivist fuck who considers Hegel et al. to be wrong on all points, you still have to admit that this guy knew some shit

>> No.7062398

>>7062061
>Ruby Weapon
>800,000 HP
>not Yiazmat's 50 million

Ruby's basically Ayn Rand.

>> No.7062403

>no mention of Hume

>> No.7062428

>>7059759

Plato is the GrandTheftAuto final boss
he starts of as your easy mentor but after you have defeated everyone else you need come back and finally defeat him

>> No.7062435

>>7062398
Ruby Weapon's difficulty isn't in the HP level.

Sort of the opposite of Ayn Rand since her simplicity isn't in her brevity.

>> No.7062438

>>7062357
I'm a huge admirer of Kant, but I don't see how this is the case. I think his idealism could admit of improvements - like from more contemporary logic, and a less abstract and rationalistic (and thus implausible, in my view) ethics.

>> No.7062450

>>7062435
>Yiazmat can heal ALL of its HP if you don't pay attention when it's at low HP
>5% chance of instant death with every normal attack

It took me 60 hours to beat that fucker

>> No.7062523

>>7062450
Is Yiazmat Stirner?

>> No.7062682

>>7061823
Nietzsche can't be the final boss, he would have wanted you to play the expansion packs after him.

>> No.7062685

>>7059740
mid boss at most

▲
▲ ▲

>> No.7062691

>>7060451
In terms of difficulty, no. In terms of innovations and insights, no. In terms of influence on the modern world, yes.

>> No.7062694

>>7062153
>Lit doesn't play casual shit where difficult encounters are optional

I'm proud. Although vidya is a waste for the most part.

>> No.7062721

>>7059793
>Of pleb philosophy
Ftfy

>> No.7062730

If Hegel was the final boss then Stirner was the first protagonist to clear the game. He probably got the bad ending too.

>> No.7063459

>>7062523
Yiazmat is that one book of philosophy that you feel you have to stop reading due to its borderline convoluted nature and length; and may even restart because of a break in continuity.

>> No.7064110
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7064110

>> No.7064120

It's actually Derrida. Hegel is great and a real monster to read, but understanding Derrida is harder and he deconstructs Hegel.

>> No.7064224
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7064224

i'd argue that there isn't one and that it's very unlikely that there'll ever be one.

FW was the final boss of literature in that the kind of literature this refers to lives from utilising and portraying something (language, culture, characters, events) already established in a refreshing way. that's why there's such a thing as a somewhat clearly defined lit narrative across the ages that most great writers will have studied to some extent and which they pick up on in their writing - unlike a lot of philosophers, who are often more particular and more concerned with a particular branch of view of philosophy. FW was supposedly the work that stretched this literary-narrative-coherence to a degree and included so much "established information" with the end of portraying the entirety of human-ness at that point where out-doing it would be pointless both because it becomes utterly incomprehensible and the task gets harder as over time wordviews and narratives become more and more fractured.

philosophy on the other hand has always been much more fractured and, if anything, lives from the kind of abstract navel gazing that 21st century cultural phenomena lend themselves to so well. philosophies is about abstract particularities, mind you over history a lot philosophers have also been mathematicians, physicists, etc. literature is about sharing your personal experience on a more direct, intuitive, emotional level.

sry 4 shitty ingrish