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/lit/ - Literature

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7056223 No.7056223 [Reply] [Original]

If New Sincerety is about being honest and genuine, then why is every DFW fan a "lol so ironic" hipster?

>> No.7056229

Because the fans of something don't necessarily represent what the something is well. How many Christians actually act like Jesus did?

>> No.7056236

Faux sincerity. Thinking a mask of sincerity appears better than their revolting truly sincere selves.

Besides the point though. Better question is how many actual DFW fans have you met, how many of them would you call "lol so ironic hipster", and what defines it?

>> No.7056254

>>7056236

I've met exactly 14 and all of them are occupied with ironic memeing, not too different from what you would find on here 4chan, except IRL. They may not use the same memes, but the attitude is the same.

>> No.7056258

>>7056254
Interesting. I've probably met three people in my life I'd call real DFW 'fans', and none of the three gave off that impression at all.

>> No.7056259

DFW had a much more complicated relationship with irony than just "thinking it's bad and we should be sincere." I don't think most people who characterize his views that way have actually read him. Infinite Jest is frequently and deeply ironic, as are many of his essays.

>> No.7056263

>>7056223
There isn't as much sincerity in DFW as you think.

>> No.7056264

>>7056254
Maybe it's sincere meming. A lot of proponents of New Sincerity are mistaken for being ironic, like Million Dollar Extreme.

>> No.7056269

I'm in theory in favour of moving towards a culture of sincerity, but it seems to mean "confessing" you like cartoons and shit to DFW.
It could easily be a much more profound movement than it has turned out to be.

>> No.7056272

>>7056259

Could you go into more detail? I thought it's about not being ironic and being sincere instead?

>> No.7056304

>>7056272
Here's the definitive Wallace essay on the topic: https://jsomers.net/DFW_TV.pdf

>> No.7056408

>>7056223
because New Sincerity failed where Post-Irony will succeed!! <3

>> No.7056420
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7056420

>>7056408
Excelsior!

>> No.7056488

>>7056408
what is the difference

>> No.7056508
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7056508

>>7056259
He makes it pretty clear in his essay on American television. Basically, he sees the value of irony in literature as a way to emphasize tragedy, but he thinks that people with "ironic personalities" are completely closed-off and empty, hiding from humanity behind a defensive wall of sarcasm.

>> No.7056530

>>7056508
Right, I posted that essay in a follow up in this thread

>> No.7056555

>>7056530
Oh sorry, didn't see it.

>> No.7056589

Tbh new sincerity is just pomo work trying to pretend it isn't.

>> No.7056594

>>7056259

Sometimes it can be hard to get out of irony loops sure, but getting trapped so deeply into irony that you can't escape just sounds like mental illness. I don't understand it- is it a class thing?

>> No.7056638

there is a scene in infinite jest where a kid who fails to meet his tennis ranking drinks cyanide nesquik and then his entire family dies in succession trying to ressucitate each other. This whole "new sincerity VS irony because muh DFW" shitposting trend is beyond fucking pointless.

>> No.7056659
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7056659

>>7056229
it's pretty clear you just don't hang around christians
In my life I have known a great many "christians" and a fair good number of actual christians.
you can find them by a certain genuine feeling to them, like you can just tell that they actually do care about changing their lives and helping other people

I just want to point that out, since everything you here on here is going to be atheists who think christianity is the worst thing ever and that everybody in it is a fake. that's just not the case. some people spend their entire lives as missionaries in shitholes for tiny compensation merely because they feel that is their calling

esp. with the christian groups here in college, the ones who get involved are actually legit (the pressure of having to go to church is gone once you move out, obviously. that's when I stopped attending and was able to stop pretending to be christian)

just felt like that needed to be pointed out to some people who seem to get so angry when they hear about christians

>> No.7056661

>>7056659

dumb christposter

>> No.7056675

>>7056659
God, don't take it literally and turn this into another religious debate thread. The point of the analogy wasn't to criticize Christians.

>> No.7056683

>>7056675
yeah I know that, I don't want to debate religion either, I'm not religious myself
I just wanted to point it out on the side

>> No.7056695

>>7056659
If it isn't the worst thing ever then it surely is the stupidest

U wanna dance boi

>> No.7056699

>>7056683
>I'm not religious myself I just passionately defend mind viruses because Everyone Has A Right To Belief (except people who I subjectively think are sickos especially if they act on their thoughts)

Kill yourself. Non-memetically, go commit suicide and improve the world.

>> No.7056703

>>7056699
>>7056695
>>7056675
*Tip*

>> No.7056719

>>7056703
>old memes
>in the original unperverted use
literally jesus christ dude. wow.

>> No.7056725

>>7056223
DFW himself isn´t new sincerity. he just wrote an article about that.

>> No.7056736

>>7056699

I thought rust posting was dead.

>> No.7056743
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7056743

>>7056223
maybe social justice is the new sincerity?

>> No.7056757

>>7056223
there are elements of sincerity in his work, which was kinda edgy for serious literature at the time.
But that's all it is.
The fact that he chose to include a decent amount is significant enough.
He was self-aware and good-humored enough to realize that real sincerity is either really hard to do or just plain boring (Think Irrelevent Fogel in TPK)

>> No.7056859
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7056859

>>7056743
nah it is the new aristocratic indulgence

>> No.7056877

>>7056859
>Sokal
Isn't that the scientist who tried to prove that literary academia was nonsense by submitting a bullshit paper... to a non-peer-reviewed journal? Seems a bit antithetical, or at least out of character for a serious scientist. I wouldn't try to "disprove academic science" by submitting a bullshit paper to a non-peer-reviewed academic journal.

>> No.7056902
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7056902

But could DFW beat Faulkner in a fist fight?

>> No.7056935

>>7056902
Faulkner seems like he could beat the shit outta almost any other author. Probably not Hemingway, but he would put a mashing on Wallace.

>> No.7057002

>>7056902
anon, don't get me started like last night

DFW is huge and far more cruel compared to Faulkner and would definitely punch his lights out

>> No.7057017

>>7057002
what do you mean by cruel?

>> No.7057025

>>7057002
But Wallace was a sheltered middle-class suburb dweller. Faulkner had more exposure to the rough, and could probably take more of a beating than Wallace could, not to mention Wallace has a bad case of dad-bod and would probably tire quickly whereas Faulkner was a little more conditioned from his manual labor jobs.

I'd take Faulkner

>> No.7057079

>>7057017
>>7057025
I'm speaking in generalities, but Faulkner was basically raised as a Southern gentleman - easy upbringing, somewhat wealthy family, never troubled by money until later on. He didn't grow up as a tough guy, never went to war, though he was in the military for a short time. That and his small height and his lack of formal training (plus abuse of alcohol) makes me think he'd be a poor match for DFW...

who was almost a foot taller than Faulkner, plotted a murder once, and was generally borderline-autistic in his personal conduct - mean-spirited at times, even if he didn't intend to be. He was a very depressed man for the last 10 years of his life, and if attacked, I think he wouldn't restrain himself at all like Faulkner might. For Faulkner, it would be a gentleman's fight. For DFW, it would be something more intense.

>> No.7057122

>>7056223
"New Sincerity" is so gag inducing. Whatever happened to just "not being a prick"? Do people have to violate everything with their labels?