/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7052460]

"All truly liberal societies are in principle dedicated to the elimination of conventional sources of inequality. In addition, the dynamism of capitalist economies tends to break down many conventional and cultural barriers to equality through its continually changing demand for labor. A century of Marxist thought has accustomed us to think of capitalist societies as highly inegalitarian, but the truth is that they are far more egalitarian in their social effects than the agricultural societies they replaced. Capitalism is a dynamic force which constantly attacks purely conventional social relationships, replacing inherited privilege with new stratifications based on skill and education."

Wow, what a smart guy. Has anyone proven him wrong?

[Anonymous No.7052464]

i'm telling you dude, capitalism is fucking great, the sooner you realize this less of your life you'll waste being an angsty pleb

[Anonymous No.7052476]

>>7052464
Anon please, all respectable capitalist academics recognize that Capitalism is a shitty system. Their argument is that it is the least shitty system when compared will all other tried forms of government and economic management.

[Anonymous No.7052481]

>>7052476
will = with.
Sorry typo.

[Anonymous No.7052499]

>A century of Marxist thought has accustomed us to think of capitalist societies as highly inegalitarian, but the truth is that they are far more egalitarian in their social effects than the agricultural societies they replaced.

When has a Marxist ever said that the social relations inherent to an outdated mode of production are superior to the ensuing economic paradigm?

Obviously capitalism induces a degree of equality and a rise in the standard of living for a minority of the world population. Marx's point is that socialism will come to replace capitalism just as capitalism has replaced feudalism, and in a socialist world inequalities are not just mitigated - as they are in Fuyukama's example - they are eliminated.

Did this guy even read Marx?

[Anonymous No.7052500]

>>7052464
capitalism with a generous social welfare system and pro-growth keynesian macroeconomic policies is great, generally. neoliberal capitalism with a weak welfare state, free trade and high immigration is awful.

[Anonymous No.7052515]

>>7052499
marxism is so fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.7052517]

>Capitalism is a dynamic force which constantly attacks purely conventional social relationships, replacing inherited privilege with new stratifications based on skill and education."

Dead labour, tho. I can't fathom what this crafty jap even thinks capitalism is, but I'd imagine he knows it has the faintest relation to private property, and yet he doesn't seem to know what private property does

Being more egalitarian than agricultural societies is like yeah, so what.

[Anonymous No.7052529]

>>7052500
>capitalism with a generous social welfare system and pro-growth keynesian macroeconomic policies is great

For people living in a first world country that relies on the exploitation of the third world, sure. For the majority of the world population, the havoc capitalism wreaks on their livelihoods is just as bad regardless of how strong social security is in America. Generous welfare programs in the developed world don't mean shit to Bangladeshi sweat shop workers - and the wealth that makes generous welfare programs possible wouldn't exist without the Bangladeshi sweat shops.

>capitalism confirmed garbage

[Anonymous No.7052530]

>>7052515
Well that may be so, but that doesn't mean that "Fuku the Count Dooku" can walk around saying that Marxist are saying shit, when they obviously aren't.

[Anonymous No.7052535]

>>7052529

this is such nonsense, nations are poor because they are on the margin of the capitalist world system and don't receive any investment. if the Bangladeshi ecnomy is mismanaged by corrupted socialist/islamist stooges it's not the fault of foreign investors

[Anonymous No.7052540]

>>7052529
So why hasn't Cuba built some t-shirt factories in Bangladesh that pay $20 an hour?

[Anonymous No.7052545]

>>7052535
>nations are poor because they live on the margin of the capitalist world

Did your high school teachers jut skip over all the parts where the currently developed countries ransacked half the world and put social policies in place that would ensure economic and political retardation?

Or are you just not in high school yet?

>inb4 you ask for proof of imperialism lmao

[Anonymous No.7052551]

>>7052529
>and the wealth that makes generous welfare programs possible wouldn't exist without the Bangladeshi sweat shops.

this isn't true at all, the only thing that would decrease if those goods were made domestically would be the capitalists' profit.

besides off-shoring physical production is part of neoliberal capitalism anyway. and it screws over domestic labor far more than the actual people in the third world, who usually benefit from production moving into their countries.

[Anonymous No.7052557]

>>7052540
...because Cuba doesn't have the economic capability to build factories halfway around the world after being targeted by crippling sanctions from the United States and the capitalist West.

do you like actually know any history or are you just kinda winging it

[Anonymous No.7052561]

>>7052551
really neoliberal capitalism has been a huge boon for the third world and awful for people living in developed countries.

[Anonymous No.7052562]

who /inane/ here

[Anonymous No.7052563]

>>7052545
>21st century
>still blaming imperialism

come on, that's just lazy, then again you are a marxist after all

[Anonymous No.7052568]

>>7052557
what, so are you saying without sanctions Cuba would engage in trade with the United States? Well fucking lollll me down!

[Anonymous No.7052574]

>>7052540
Not the "cry baby commie anon" that you are talking to, but I would say because Cuba has been economically isolated and is riddled with corruption. Also because Cuba redistributes a lot of its wealth among the populous, allowing people to get by. This slows efforts to fund mass capital projects, like building a factory or other oversea shit.

But I suppose that Cuba could break into the Asian market, but they still have a domestic economy which requires more attention.

[Anonymous No.7052575]

>>7052551
>the only thing that would decrease if those goods were made domestically would be the capitalists' profit

Which is why those products would never be made domestically because the whole point of capitalism is to maximize profit regardless of worker well-being. And no, that's not just newfangled neoliberal capitalism, that's fucking Adam Smith back to basics capitalism.

[Anonymous No.7052586]

>>7052568
Considering that as soon as the sanctions were lifted (you know that just happened right) Cuba and the United States did in fact immediately engage in trade, you have already been "lolllled" down.

[Anonymous No.7052588]

>>7052563
>We live in a world without history

Wat. Look dude we aren't talking about "200 years ago" slavery in America level stuff. We are talking about half a century ago, or even just 40 years if you count the Liberation war. I'm pretty sure that imperialism has left a nasty scar on the nation.

[Anonymous No.7052594]

>>7052586
So, Cuba blames it's last 50 years of poverty and backwardness on it's inability to engage in free trade with the United States. And this is suppose to get me to believe communism works? Do you guys even think about what you're saying? smh

[Anonymous No.7052596]

>>7052586
>>7052588
shut up marxcucks
I'm right and you're gay

[Anonymous No.7052605]

>>7052588
Nasty scars like transportation infrastructure? Communications infrastructure? Governmental and education institutions? Oh yes, how nasty.

[Anonymous No.7052611]

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_0r5M_C5VE

marxists btfo

[Anonymous No.7052628]

>>7052594
>So, Cuba blames it's last 50 years of poverty and backwardness on it's inability to engage in free trade with the United States

Well I would hardly accuse a country with a higher literacy rate than the United States of "backwardness" but it's not as if the sanctions only prevented trade between Cuba and the United States. You also have to account for the series of invasions and failed coups/assassination attempts funded by the United States, as well as the military destruction and economic sabotage perpetrated by the United States against dozens of other Latin American countries which Cuba could have traded with.

Srsly if you don't know history - even recent (as in less than a year ago) history - you really have no place singing the praises of a system that probably isn't even benefiting you.

[Anonymous No.7052647]

>>7052628
>Well I would hardly accuse a country with a higher literacy rate than the United States of "backwardness"

yeah, and the trains run on time!

[Anonymous No.7052660]

>>7052647
That's Mussolini. A capitalist.

[Anonymous No.7052666]

>>7052460

>Has anyone proven him wrong?

Himself.

[Anonymous No.7052667]

>>7052628
i used to be just like you in college, with all the canned excuses (imperialism, sanctions, capitalists don't play fair, blah blah) and silly literacy rate stats etc. what a joke

[Anonymous No.7052668]

>>7052660
shut up
SHUT UP
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.7052674]

>>7052667
>canned excuses

This is not even an expression.

[Anonymous No.7052682]

>>7052674
don't you dare reply to me, you little bitch

[Anonymous No.7052690]

>>7052682
Hahaha. I am smarter than you. You are a worm to me.

[Anonymous No.7052693]

>>7052674
not only are you stuck in the 1900s you aren't even able to use your own language creatively, well no wonder you have trouble surviving in capitalism and long for totalitarian slavery

[Anonymous No.7052702]

>>7052605
"Jee the Nazis sure were nice laying down this rail during the war." -Polish person

>inb4 Godwin's law

But seriously dude, there is no way you can bush off the current state of mass poverty and semi- dictatorial government(which has never had a fair election) just because of some infrastructure which was used to ship goods out of the nation by colonists.

[Anonymous No.7052706]

>>7052690
this is probably the same guy trying to get a retail job at half-price books with his state college history degree

[Anonymous No.7052708]

>>7052702
yes there is, I just did fagger ahahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.7052717]

>>7052682
>>7052690

Fucking neocons and marxists.

Jesus guys, how about instead of fighting over "who is the biggest bitch" you actually debate each other instead of setting up straw-men?

[Anonymous No.7052739]

>>7052702
those countries had shitty government and pathetic standard of living long before any imperialists showed up, don't you realize local strong men and corrupt leaders are still blaming generations ago imperialist to distract from their own terrible policies and then naive college kids like you pick up their propaganda and bandy it out campus like you're helping anybody

[Anonymous No.7052744]

>>7052708
kek. Well played anon.

Anyways back to the subject matter.

>Capitalism is a dynamic force which constantly attacks purely conventional social relationships.

Nope, if anything it reinforces most social relations. And when it produces social ideas it is shit like "individualism" and "consumerism", which are relations with commodities and one's self.

[Anonymous No.7052746]

>>7052530
>>7052499
In Marx's writings, Capitalism is essentially the 2nd best system.

Although Soviet and Chinese communist sources tended to paint capitalism as the evil other in the exact same way NATO sources painted Marxism as the evil other.

The Cold War perspective on politics and economics is fucking retarded and we're nowhere close to getting over it decades later (all social programs = COMMUNISM)

[Anonymous No.7052756]

why are right-wingers so fucking retarded? I mean literally half the replies were that of your average American high schooler

[Anonymous No.7052757]

>>7052706
I'm the girl who broke up your parents' marriage while you were getting Cs in Accounting, reactionary scum.

[Anonymous No.7052758]

>>7052744
>And when it produces social ideas it is shit like "individualism" and "consumerism", which are relations with commodities and one's self.

you attack "consumerism" like it's a bad thing but the entire marxists prediction of revolution is based on the idea that the workers are such fiends for commodity consumption that they will overthrow the whole government and distribute all the commodities they produce to themselves! in order for a marxists revolution to happen the workers would have to be insanely ravenous consumers who fly into a bloodthirsty rage at the thought of not keeping all the iphone screens they produces or whatever...again, do you even think about the shit you believe so heartily? it's fucking idiotic

[Anonymous No.7052769]

>>7052757
oh please the whole reason you became a marxist because you were too fat for chad to fuck so you adopted the nearest slave morality infused ideology you could find

[Anonymous No.7052782]

>>7052460

[Anonymous No.7052785]

>>7052769
Pic related, it's me and your dad.

[Anonymous No.7052788]

>>7052746
yeah I thought marx wrote capitalism was dynamic and exciting and totally creative. and would agree with Fukuyama


but like hitchens points out in a lecture on socialism, capitalism has its ups and downs, but can we really except it is the best we can do?

Fukuyama believed Denmark is the best political economy too right?

[Anonymous No.7052797]

Will Marxists ever grow up?

It's fucking over. Your ideology has produced nothing but economic disasters and tyrannical state governments. It's fucking over. Central planning will never work. The workers are better off under capitalism. Social justice is a fool's errand. Grow the fuck up. If you're sitting here right now reading this shit you are one of the most privileged people in human history. Capitalism created everything you have. Stop trying to throw it away because you're a defective human being who is terrified of personal responsibility and wants a boogeyman to blame for everything that is wrong with the world. There is no 'solution' to poverty or injustice; there are only trade offs. Capitalism is the best system yet devised for improving the lot of ordinary people.

Let. It. Go. Become a productive human being and stop wasting energy trying to reform society.

[Anonymous No.7052807]

fukuyama is probably STEM or something and would consider statistics on equality far more important than the alienation inherent in capitalism that humanist marxism stresses.

I really wonder when progressives will get over a higher min wage and start talking about being alienated from our species-being as the real problem. I'm surprised that wasn't the first War of Position position that was taken.

I guess identity politics could lead us to being human and alienated/estranged?

the slow march is really infuriating

[Anonymous No.7052808]

>>7052739
>Implying that I don't think that these governments are shit-holes from the start

Anon, I'm simply saying that imperialism left a mark on these countries which is generally negative. I mean before colonists showed up India was run by a bunch of shitty kingdoms constantly in war with each other. The place sucked ass. And yes I agree that African/post-colonial leaders are milking this imperialism thing like no tomorrow.

But it is like one of my generally anti-conformist friends, he bitched about how the school was treating him like shit. He spent an insane amount of time on it, constantly complaining. Of course he was mostly to blame for the way the school treated him(after several years it was pretty undeniable that certain teachers where singling him out) but that doesn't justify the school's actions. He holds a majority of the responsibility for his actions; he can blame our school for causing him a bit of pain, but not all of his hardships.


>>7052758
I don't even know how to respond. Just google consumerism and then google commodity theory of Marx. I mean you should read Das kapital, but I doubt you actually will.

[Anonymous No.7052811]

>>7052460
wow did he read deleuze #deterritorialize

[Anonymous No.7052812]

>>7052797

>my own lack of innovative solutions should be yours as well

[Anonymous No.7052814]

>>7052797
You completely misunderstood TWON and in early stage capitalism people do worse than under farming due to horrible working conditions and terrible pay. Only the existence of trade unions helps the working class.

Also, all the state socialism you enjoy like healthcare, public infrastructure, education, social security all come from the German Social Democrats who made the first modern welfare state. They in turn got all of their ideas from Marx.

[Anonymous No.7052818]

>>7052797
Will Marxists ever grow up?

It's fucking over. Open your assholes and us job creators will provide plenty of lube. It's fucking over. Just accept minimum wage, if you got paid any more then unemployment would have to go up. Remember the crash of 2008? It's only by our God-given power that you didn't lose your entire savings. You workers are better off under capitalism. Social justice is a fool's errand. Grow the fuck up. If you're sitting here right now reading this shit you are one of the most privileged people in human history, and if you ever strive for better, you can eat shit. Capitalism created everything you have. Stop trying to throw it away because you're a defective human being who is terrified of not having enough to feed your family from week to week and wants a boogeyman to blame for everything that is wrong with the world. There is no 'solution' to poverty or injustice; there are only higher taxes which hurt you even more than they hurt job creators like myself. Capitalism is the best system yet devised for improving the lot of ordinary people. Just look at any city in America, indeed, the Western world!

Let. It. Go. Become a productive wage slav-... human being and stop wasting energy trying to reform society.

[Anonymous No.7052820]

>>7052529

Oftentimes those sweat shop jobs are better than what's available for these people. Like selling their body, for example.

[Anonymous No.7052822]

>>7052529
this

shitlibs who argue for 'compassionate capitalism' are so corny lol

[Anonymous No.7052823]

>>7052797
this would be an example of what marx would call Ideology right?

[Anonymous No.7052833]

>>7052823
who's marx? i think you mean sheshek

[Anonymous No.7052834]

Anyone else here spend literally years down the Marxism hole, only to find it never ends and you are no better than where you started?

how do i escape? I mean after you get past a ton of theory it has just spiralled into labour statistics on health and on and on

[Anonymous No.7052837]

>>7052797

Will niggers ever grow up?

It's fucking over. Your continent produced nothing but spear chucking and tribal shit tier societies. It's fucking over. . Africans are better off under colonialism. Decolonialism is a fool's errand. Grow the fuck up. If you're sitting here right now reading this shit you are one of the most privileged niggers in human history. Colonialism created everything you have. Stop trying to throw it away because you're a defective human being who is terrified of personal responsibility and wants a royal man like myself to blame for everything that is wrong with Africa. There is no 'solution' to poverty or injustice; there are only trade offs. Colonialism is the best system yet devised for improving the lot of niggers.

[Anonymous No.7052838]

>>7052823
Not just that, Marx hated scumbags who co opted Smith.

Dat exclamation by Marx against Mill. kek

[Anonymous No.7052841]

>>7052837

Let. It. Go. Become unpaid human labor and stop wasting energy trying to reform society.*

[Anonymous No.7052848]

>>7052841
>>7052797
hi nick

[Anonymous No.7052849]

>>7052807
of all the marxist drivel 'alienation of labour' has to be one of the weakest asspulls of it all
>dude if we were communist people would LOVE their work for no actual reason except that ideology dictates this to be true

[Anonymous No.7052852]

>>7052797
answer me this. what was marx's gravest error in his critique of political economy from your reading of it?

[Anonymous No.7052860]

>>7052849
hey, I'd rather chop down a tree, turn it into wood, design my own style of chair build it to w/e specs i can imagine, and work at w/e pace I felt like and time of day.

then stand on a line and put 2 pieces of wood in a box for 8 hours strait between 11pm and 7am, with no extra money for working harder

seems pretty obvious?
I'd rather clean my room, than be a maid cleaning other people's rooms etc

[Anonymous No.7052861]

>>7052667
wow!
compelling!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.7052863]

>>7052785
No penises please.

[Anonymous No.7052869]

>>7052849
well it explains why people love doing work for themselves like baking cakes, cooking food, making things with wood... communism is free time. free time to make cupcakes =)

[Anonymous No.7052870]

>>7052797
thanks for the dank copypasta m8

[Anonymous No.7052880]

>>7052860
you don't get to work at whatever pace you want though
you still have to keep up with the demands of society as a whole and the whims of your democratic co-op
and in the end the chair that gets produced the fastest will be the cheapest and only one actually produced
you're ignoring the fucking LTV and socially necessary labour time

[Anonymous No.7052898]

>>7052863
fine. more for me

[Anonymous No.7052912]

>>7052823

[Anonymous No.7052941]

>>7052814
>o, all the state socialism you enjoy like healthcare, public infrastructure, education, social security

I don't enjoy any of those, but I do pay for you to enjoy them.

You're welcome

[Anonymous No.7052951]

>>7052852

Why don't you give me your interpretation of Marx's analysis before asking me to respond, because what Marx wrote and what you read are probably two very different things.

[Anonymous No.7053063]

>>7052500
>>capitalism with a generous social welfare system and pro-growth keynesian macroeconomic policies is great, generally
no, it is shit

if everybody has welfare and comfort, it makes it hardier for me to be better than the average guy

if you keep people as they are with their capabilities, not helping them to get to your level, then it will be easy to be above them

[Anonymous No.7053116]

>>7052951
because you are the one critiquing it lol

i'm not saying that you're wrong, just want to know why you disagree with #marx

[Anonymous No.7053424]

>>7052628
>>7052586
>>7052574
>muh high literacy rates
>muh cuban healthcare

Pointing out the misdeeds of US foreign policy in latin America is one thing. Pretending that shit holes like Cuba and Guatemala would have been socialist paradises had it not been for a few decades of American Imperialism is an example of Rage against the Machine/Che Guevara shirt tier of adolescent stupidity.

>Also because Cuba redistributes a lot of its wealth among the populous, allowing people to get by.

Having lived in Cuba for two years on a photography grant, I know for a fact that this is absolute bullshit. The average Cuban working a government Job makes roughly $250 a year. Ironically Cuban people’s disposable income comes from money sent by relatives living in USA and Europe. Ex pats in the USA alone send over 2 billion annually to relatives in Cuba. Due to constant food shortages and rationing, those without American relatives have to resort to “gray market” bartering of home grown consumer goods and services. Cash transactions between non-government entities are illegal. The elderly, disabled, and those ostracized by society like transsexuals, often live in mind blowing, abject poverty. Fidel Castro's personal net worth is estimated at $ 900 million.

[Anonymous No.7053654]

>>7052717
You must be new here.

[Anonymous No.7053719]

>>7053424
Too many Communists have been uncritical in their support of Cuba. During the Cold War, Cuba was close associates with the Soviet Union and its social-imperialism, and today it has close relations with major imperialist countries like Russia and China. I think it's obvious that Cuba has going down the path of Vietnam for quite some time now, and that the Left should have no illusions with revisionists. Ever since the end of the Cold War the Left has been grasping at straws to stay relevant.

http://picosong.com/ueBn/
>Are people tired of hearing how the Revolution was won?
>Does the Ghost of Che walk the caves of Portales,
>Is he haunted by the sadness that the Revolution has had to compromise
>in the face of the advancing years?

[Anonymous No.7053769]

>>7052834
for some being a hardcore marxist is a way to avoid guilt for being overprivilidged, for those people i say send your parents trustfund money back unspent and begin to support yourself so you can have dignity. in my case, i was just a lazy shit looking for an excuse not to apply myself (the system's rigged, people like me can't succeed, why try, i'll just do an easy degree and blame my lack of responsibility and acheivement on capitalism) then i realized you can't pay the rent with ideology and decided to take responsibility for my life. it's like quitting alcohol or any other life destroyed escapist bullshit, it hurts to admit you wasted a huge part of your life but the sooner you stop that shit and take responsibility for yourself the sooner you can salvage what's left of your life

[Anonymous No.7053812]

>>7052460
>far more egalitarian in their social effects

Of course they are, competition and efficiency leave ever fewer owning everything, and the rest being gloriously free and equal begging in the smoldering ruins of both world and society.

[Anonymous No.7053818]

>>7052476
So, tacit admittance that the people we allow to rule us are grossly incompetent, and always have been?

Ah well, the proles can't be much better, or we'd have a vote on whether or not to put the president's head on a spike at the end of every term.

[Anonymous No.7053824]

>>7053424
>iron ruler of a decently sized nation
>not even worth one billion dollars
Jesus.

[Anonymous No.7053838]

>based on skill and education
Oh yes, in capitalism, the more educated and skilled you are, the more money you have, it's all about merit, right guys?

Ridiculous. That man never got out of his social circle.

[Anonymous No.7053907]

>>7053838
>>7053838
>Oh yes, in capitalism, the more educated and skilled you are, the more money you have, it's all about merit, right guys?
>Ridiculous

and what evidence do you have to say this is "ridiculous"? because you didn't become a best selling novelist with your bachelors from a second tier state college? well, then I guess capitalism is all a sham!

[Anonymous No.7053933]

>>7053907
>does the "one poor man made it" shitty critique.

Look anon I'm not the guy you responded to, but that is a pretty bad argument. Clearly the other anon is talking about general class difference, not the slum dog millionaire plot line.

[Anonymous No.7053950]

>>7053933
his argument was that the slums are full of brilliant hardworking people who are being passed over for some reason...which is fucking retarded. the point is since HE didn't become rich (since that poster is obviously so educated and talented) that all of capitalism must be a scam!

>i shitposted my way through college and i never got out of my mom's basement but all those guys who worked hard and did challenging majors got jobs and that's not fair! capitalism is a scam!

[Anonymous No.7053961]

>>7053838
>Oh yes, in capitalism, the more educated and skilled you are, the more money you have, it's all about merit, right guys?

no, no, only in communism do the most brilliant minds rise to the top! clearly the castro family are the most brilliant people in cuba which is why their family keeps all the money!

[Anonymous No.7053993]

>>7053950
>>7053907
No, that's not my argument

>full of brilliant hardworking people
No, that's not it either.

Just that there are more challenges for the poor to face. Do you think construction workers and maids are lazy? And do you think rich playboys are more "brilliant hardworking people" than yourself? Capitalism assures that those who are rich stay rich and those who are poor stay poor, more than that, it accentuates that difference over the years as it privileges those who are already on top of the pyramid. The understanding here goes beyond that naive sense that some people are hardworking and some people are not, but that there are social conditions that qualify this work and make it so much harder for the poor and so much easier for the rich, from food, shelter, transportation, to access to education and culture, all the way to prejudice and racism. It is useless (and part of the problem, actually) to compare the works themselves, rather than the rewards they get. Capitalism is essentially a plutocratic system. And none of this is new or extraordinary, you should have known this by now.

[Anonymous No.7054004]

>>7053950
>i shitposted my way through college and i never got out of my mom's basement but all those guys who worked hard and did challenging majors got jobs and that's not fair! capitalism is a scam!
I mean sure I suppose some retarded college kids could be drawn to socialist thought for that reason, but that doesn't mean that the beliefs are wrong.

It is just like how corporate heads are drawn to neoliberalism, that does add or subtract to the validity of their beliefs. All it does it create a logical chain between beliefs and their believers, but it doesn't make the beliefs any more or less valid.

Also I mean he is right, I mean think of the thousands of people in African or Asian countries who are geniuses, but because they don't have access to education are going to have no intellectual growth. Or even in a 1st world country, some poor kid with the same intelligence of a rich kid is going to be "dumber" because the poor one lacks private tudors and a healthy family life.

[Anonymous No.7054005]

>>7053961
I'm sorry, did I mention communism anywhere? Don't run away from criticism anon, are you defending capitalism or attacking Cuba? I'm trying to find the point in your post in which you are actually dialoguing with me.

[Anonymous No.7054020]

>>7053907
>>7053950
He is talking about pic related.

[Anonymous No.7054024]

>>7054005
well attacking capitalism with no offering of an alternative is like complaining that some people are ugly or that we all have to die or something. you just sound like a fucking baby.

[Anonymous No.7054029]

>>7052529
>HOLY SHIT PABLO, NOW WE CAN GET PAID FOR MAKING SHIRTS INSTEAD OF WORKING THIS SHIT STRIP OF LAND LIKE SERFS

>wow Pablette, that's great! Thanks capitalism!

[Anonymous No.7054034]

>>7054020
what a cliche'd piece of trash, you realize so many evil one percent jews started in nyc housing projects, the same one your noble savages live in but can never seem to escape? how did lloyd blankfein get out of the projects?

[Anonymous No.7054043]

>>7052557
>crippling sanctions
>implying Cuba is entitled to the wealth of others

[Anonymous No.7054055]

>>7054020
they left out the part were paula get's knocked up at 16 and has to drop out of high school and then when she finally gets her GED and signs up for community college her boyfriend gets arrested for drunk driving and makes her spend her textbook money on his bail, etc. if you really spent any time among the poor you would realize they make really bad life choices

[Anonymous No.7054330]

>>7052460
Fukuyama astounds me, how can one man be wrong time and time again, yet is still widely acclaimed and respected.
I feel like I should write a paper with broad over generalizations, speculative claims, and a wacky title and just sit back and watch my academic power grow like an American with a 100 dollar McDonalds gift-card.

[Anonymous No.7054339]

>>7054020
reminder that your birth wasn't an accident, it was the result of millions of years of struggle and you deserve everything you get

[Anonymous No.7054350]

>>7052476
>Friedman and Hayek were not respectable
In what kind of world do you live?

[Anonymous No.7054375]

>>7054024
It's as if I criticized the Beatles and you answered with "Rolling Stones suck!"

Offering alternatives cannot be a point unless we can agree to whether they are needed or not. Afterall, there is no intention to solve the problem on my own, but rather to learn through the dialogue so that, if agreed there is a problem, we can think together on possible solutions, or if it isn't a problem we must investigate what makes it seem as a problem as of now.

Don't you also see that "having to die" is a problem, then indeed it is useless for me to point that out to you with nothing to add. But do you agree that there are conditions of wealth, education, family, culture, health, that influence a person's perspectives of life in spite of their efforts? If not, then we are not even discussing to solve it, we are discussing whether it exists at all. But if you went that far as to call out the shit from some alternative that I didn't give to you, then I can only infer that you are ready to admit that such external social influence exist, but refuse to only because of a lack of alternatives to hang on to, not knowing that it is precisely through the outspoken acknowledging of its existence that we are going to be able to start some work towards a solution.

[Anonymous No.7054383]

>>7054350
Find where Friedman doesn't say something approximately along the lines of what I originally wrote.
And no Hayek is intreating but not respectable, his critique of Marx is entirely built upon straw-men, because he never understood Marx's "price doesn't equal value" theory.

[Anonymous No.7054422]

>>7054375
>But do you agree that there are conditions of wealth, education, family, culture, health, that influence a person's perspectives of life in spite of their efforts?

that's called freedom you idiotic piece of shit. do you want to make it a crime to not read to your kid or something? then when blacks violate this law and get thrown in prison you will say it's a racist law.

you are stupid and you should feel stupid.

[Anonymous No.7054427]

>>7054330
>Marx astounds me, how can one man be wrong time and time again, yet is still widely acclaimed and respected.

[Anonymous No.7054432]

>>7054350

Friedman literally suggested a guaranteed minimum income

[Anonymous No.7054470]

>>7054055
Have you ever interacted with kids at prep school? They do stupid shit constantly.

[Anonymous No.7054471]

>>7054422
;p

[Anonymous No.7054490]

>>7054470
nah, i'm not a decadent faggot like you, i wouldn't waste my parents money on something as stupid as prep school. is that your problem? you have successful parents but realize you're a fucking loser and don't deserve it? it's ok, no one cares.just go blow your dad's fortune on heroin and it'll trickle down through the proletarian community eventually.

[Anonymous No.7054520]

>>7052460
>hurrdurr competition improves everything over time

There's nothing smart about that platitude.

[Anonymous No.7054599]

>>7052563
>He thinks neo-colonialism doesn't exist
Oh I am laffin.

[Anonymous No.7054621]

>>7054020
this comic is literally 100% right

[Anonymous No.7054828]

>>7054621

it's 100% bullshit. a single child with two working parents would be lower middle class at worst. so that's a fucking lie right there. most poor people have way too many kids, and they have way to many kids because they'll get more free stuff from the government. books are free at the library and foodstamps for families with children aka "wic", "snap", "families first" are very generous. if you blow it all on junk the first week don't blame "Richard". Recently I ended up comparing class sizes in different school districts in my state. Turns ou the horribly performing black and latino schools had lower class sizes than the suburbs, so that blows up that myth. parents are free to set whatever expectations they want, if her parents are happy with a B this is some how "Richard's" fault? There are generous financial aid packages to all US citizens that will pay for as much as 6 semesters for free and then low fixed interest rate loans after that. of course you actually have to attend class and get passing grades (which is what sinks most of the "poor"). So now it's Richard's fault that Paula's dad has bad genes? The loan scene is an especially tricky lie, since the housing crisis was actually caused by lenders giving out huge loans to unqualified borrowers. It's not Richard's fault that Paula majored in Women's Studies and now has to work as a waiter while Richard chose to study engineering.

Sorry, but that cartoon is filled with the most horrible condescending bullshit ever.

[Anonymous No.7054950]

>>7054828
what about the Paula side doesn't look like "lower middle class" to you. she went to college man, she's already out of the bottom 1/3 in education.

anyway the comic is clearly about how two people can put the same amount of work in and have the same abilities but get wildly different results, if you can't read it without bringing up "babies having babies" theres a really good chance youre dumb

[Anonymous No.7054987]

>>7054020
so chilling

[Anonymous No.7055000]

>>7054950
woah, you mean life isn't fair? wow buddy grow the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.7055009]

>>7054828
>100% bullshit. a single child with two working parents would be lower middle class at worst. so that's a fucking lie right there.

You're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.7055010]

>>7054987
yeah, it's chilling to think this is the kind of stuff losers actually believe to rationalize their failures!

[Anonymous No.7055014]

>>7055000
you're the one getting insanely mad at a comic that doesn't say any more than that

[Anonymous No.7055021]

>>7055009
>A full-time minimum wage employee earns $15,080 annually

the cartoon says both parents work, so we're already up to $30,000 and then it says both parents work two jobs, so say the second job adds $7,000 a year, now they're up to $44,000 a year. you could't provide a decent standard of living for one child on that? second of all, if you don't have the skills to make more than minimum wage maybe wait to have kids until you get a better job that grocery store bag boy? that cartoon is idiotic.

[Anonymous No.7055029]

>>7054427
Because of muh feels

[Anonymous No.7055035]

>>7055029
people love slave morality, why do you think christianity was such a success?

[Anonymous No.7055037]

>>7054490
>bring this ass blasted.

[Anonymous No.7055048]

>>7055037
>yo there's some rich kid somewhere who has more stuff than you! let's overthrow capitalism and install a murderous regime with no regard for human rights instead! there won't be any more rich privileged people once the communist party controls every aspect of the economy and our lives!

[Anonymous No.7055049]

>>7055010
you are a shitbag tbqhwy

[Anonymous No.7055058]

>>7055049
i mean if i was a trustfund dipshit like you it would be unsavory to gloat over the failures of the urban proletariat,but as someone of proletarian descent i can be as smug as i want AND still tell fags like you to check ur pee, so suck it, queer.

[Anonymous No.7055085]

>>7052941
you've never used a road or a street sign?

the goods you produce were not transported along streets, roads, highways, through your local airport, or rail to be shipped to your clients?

okay.

[Anonymous No.7055119]

>>7055014
win

[Anonymous No.7055367]

>>7055014
it was posted in reply to a post that said poor people, as humans, have human agency to determine their own life outcomes...but then some guy who obviously sees proletarians as no more than beasts of burden to serve him posted that piece of shit comic, so in the context "it said more than that" but after you got btfo you had to back off of it's dehumanizing and possibly racist claims as "paula" is obliviously a latina stereotype. it just shows how fucking tone deaf rich liberals like you are. check your privilege, faggot.

[Anonymous No.7055451]

>>7055367
>Believing that Marx ignores human agency because that's one of the things you heard about him

Read Marx.

[Anonymous No.7055511]

>>7055451

right now we're talking about that racist cartoon and you got btfo. but, i've also read more marx than you, which is why i know marxism is fucking stupid and you don't.

[Anonymous No.7055678]

>>7053063
>it is not enough that I should win; others must fail.

Everyone gains from social mobility and meritocracy, fucknugget.

[Anonymous No.7057445]

>>7054034
>lloyd blankfein

read his wiki page.

[Anonymous No.7057463]

>>7054432
>tfw the average conservative is forced to admit this

[Anonymous No.7057936]

>>7055367
how on earth is paula a latina stereotype. are you of the impression that you like "win arguments with SJWs by doing SJW things" because if so you're really bad at it

[Anonymous No.7057971]

>>7057463
A society can have a minimum wage and still be capitalist though. Those aren't antithetical at all.

[Anonymous No.7058641]

>>7052807
>fukuyama is probably STEM or something

Don't be such a binary thinker. I know that sounds Tumblr as fuck, but I mean it. The whole STEM vs humanities thing is borne of modern dick-waving between university students and doesn't represent actual opposites. In fact, education in one is often concomitant with the other.

[Anonymous No.7058650]

>>7055000
>Life isn't fair

Sure it isn't, but it'd be fairer if less people thought the way you did.

[Anonymous No.7058698]

>>7052460
All true scotsmen

[Anonymous No.7059038]

>>7052818
>being this retarded.

[Anonymous No.7059238]

>>7057936
actually it's because I'm a "SJW" in real life. i've done more to advance the interests of the working class, immigrants and oppressed minorities than you ever will. which is why i was able to identify the condescending and quite frankly racist tone of that cartoon which was doubtless made by some middle class white guy in a white suburb somewhere. so if I'm a "sjw" why do I post reactionary shit on 4chan? well, maybe it's the same way you make radical tumblr blogs every day but haven't left your mom's mcmansion in weeks and the only "person of color" you ever met was your fucking maid. really, i just like to vent about the stupid shit poor people do. when you see dumb decisions day in and day out sometimes you need to blow off steam. let me close with this: check your fucking privilege faggot, and get a damn job.

[Anonymous No.7059339]

>>7054950
>if you can't read it without bringing up "babies having babies" theres a really good chance youre dumb


if you don't realize high birth rate is one of the biggest factors in people in being impoverished maybe you should look to your hero Chairman Mao for leadership. After the early land reform in China redistributed land from the landlord class to the peasants who actually worked the field their standard of living went up...briefly until they grew their families until it ate up all the economic gains from the reform. This is why China instituted the one-child policy. You can kill 1 million rich people (the estimated death toll during the land reform) and give away all their stuff to the poor, but without a birth control policy the poor will just fuck away all the gains and become impoverished again. Now compare China's economic success to India a country with no birth control policy and sever overpopulation. Which has made more strides in leftist darling stats like "literacy rates", etc. not to mention just general per capita GDP? It's not as glamorous as putting on a Che Guevara t-shirt and throwing rocks at cops, but keeping the birth rate down in struggling communities is key. Why is Europe so fucking rich? Why is Japan so rich? Maybe their minimal birth rate has something to do with it? If poor people were smart they would realize the way to power is to have fewer kids and martial all of your resources behind those few, rather than just spamming the planet with illiterate mouths to feed. How is it that Israel with about 8 million people can hold off 1.5 billion Muslims?